This photo is taken by the legendary SMGLEE. It is of a motorcycle unit for Brea Police Department in Southern California. The motorcycle has an H&K G36K mounted to the rear of the BMW police motorcycle. Does it still count as a trunk gun if it is outside the trunk?

Here is a better picture of the motorcycle and the G36K

Brea 1

 

From this angle, you can see the weapon mount is locked by a key.

Brea 2



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  • kavan grant

    Wow BMW and hk rifles must be a rich town, can’t imagine any normal town buying that for there cops EXPENSIVE……..Nice setup none the less.

    • G36s are cheap.

      • Bacon Chaser

        Unless you’re a mere common citizen.

        • He was referring to law enforcement in his post.

          • Bacon Chaser

            And I guess when you’re spending other people’s money…everything is cheap.

          • Sure, also things are cheap when they are cheap.

          • Bacon Chaser

            Ah…I realize now that there are no civilian-transferrable G36s. I thought they were introduced early- to mid-80s and would be in the pre-ban M16 range or higher.

          • Even if they were introduced in the 80s, remember that the cutoff date for imported NFA items to be transferable was 1968.

          • Bacon Chaser

            Damned confusing gun laws…

          • Sianmink

            I should make a video with the G36C I have at work.

            Place has its perks.

          • Kivaari

            Alez C, Do you know what LE agency cost is?

          • Sianmink

            Last I looked was about $950

      • Reef Blastbody

        Define cheap with a precise dollar figure, please.

    • PK

      Most HK rifles and SMGs are dirt cheap. Cheaper than, for example, a Mini-14.

      • Where did you hear that? I can assure you it is false.

    • Grindstone50k

      Both are cheaper outside of the US.

    • Beju

      That BMW is no more expensive than the HD baggers that other departments typically use.

    • Cal.Bar

      Yeah, you’d think. Brea is actually a relatively POOR town by comparison to most around here in OC. Very working class.

  • Jay

    Police and Highway Patrol cycles around here (Oklahoma City) have a similar setup, but using Colt “commando” length rifles mounted vertically on the rear right side of the bike.

    • Kivaari

      That would be a great choice.

  • insertjjs

    You might not be able to steal the rifle, but I bet they’ve lost some eo techs.

    • Grindstone50k

      Screw the rifle, steal the bike.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    It’d be easier to steal the whole bike.

  • [Insert joke about bug splatter shifting G36 POI]

    • John

      That the officer is using the rifle as a makeshift bumper bothers me.

  • Bill

    Another PD in California did it for years with shotguns, They were racked vertically, muzzle down, and the ammo had to changed out frequently, as vibrations and road conditions would cause crimps to weaken. I won’t mention what kind of bike vibrates that badly.

    • Andrew

      Hardly Davidson

    • Kivaari

      I think that was West Covina or El Monte.

      • Bill

        National City maybe? Another one did MP5s

  • DaveC

    At least it’s locked up… better then what cop’s were doing in Seattle and just leaving it on the truck, where anyone can borrow it for the day.

    • guest

      ahahahaha epic 😀

    • Rock or Something

      “Sharing the wealth”.

    • Cattoo

      The new version of “Bait Car”.

    • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

      Borrow? I think I’d add it to an underground stash.

    • Mustascheo

      Or Maryland where they apparently just leave them on the side of the road…..

  • iksnilol

    #FoldingStocksAreUseless

    • Andrew

      Wut

      • iksnilol

        I am making a bit fun of some people on this blog that say that folding stocks have no use.

        • MR

          I wouldn’t say that they have no use, but they’re not the “Be-all, End-all” solution that some seem to think. Here, for example, the rifle still seems to be doing a pretty good job of obstructing the turn signals/taillights. A vertical solution would likely be better, IMO, and would probably work just as well with an adjustable stock AR. Maybe better, as you wouldn’t have the extra width of the stock, off to the side. An under-folder AK, that could be nice. 😉

          • iksnilol

            With underfolders you have people whining about ergonomics.

            Like, it is minute of man at 300 meters. Do you expect a friggin Arctic Warfare chassis or something? xD

          • andrey kireev

            Heh, Like half of my rifles are folders (or collapsibles) of some kind… In majority of cases it doesn’t even make difference to me. As VLAD says “You don’t have to be a better shot… you just need to shoot more bullets!!”

          • iksnilol

            “You must drown your oppressors in a storm of bullets! You will bury them under an avalanche of lead!”

            -Vladof sales pitch

            I agree, sure, the underfolders aren’t the most comfy. Though the series 100 folders are awesome. They are like the regular fixed stock, only you can also fold them 😀 I presume they are a bit harder to get in the US? I am a big fan of the East German fixed stock (the purple-ish one with the bumps). If I could get that one to fold I’d be a happy camper.

          • andrey kireev

            100 series are pretty much impossible, unless a company makes a reproduction… but I do have an SGL-31 with AK-74M style foldable stock you’re talking about (sadly No more SGLs in states due to sanctions on Concern Kalashnikov) You can still get Bulgarian SLRs with same stock though =) My SGL is the only AK i kept completely stock (minus optic) with absolutely no rails

          • All the Raindrops

            People call them poly sidefolders here and they come on some Arsenal guns. They are very expensive to buy as parts. Like 300 bucks.

          • iksnilol

            Dayum, AK life in the US isn’t cheap.

        • Kivaari

          Under most conditions they serve no purpose. This is an exception to the rule. I would have probably gone for a SMG in a fully enclosed case. Having it out like that is crazy. Yes, the 5.56mm is better than a 9mm SMG. I’ll give you this one. But the very expensive rifle needs a better way to carry it. I’d take a Mini Uzi, as they are easy to hit our to 125m. Then the mortar like trajectory makes it hard.

          • All the Raindrops

            There are vertical racks for motorcycles (seen in ca too)…. there are pics floating around of bike cops with galils hanging oFF the back, vertically.

          • Kivaari

            A friend has a Micro Galil and it would be easy to mount.

    • Kivaari

      I’d rather use an M4 with an 11.5 inch barrel. The G36 is 24.2 Inches while the M4 is 26.75. So that is 2.55 inches advantage to the G36. Since an M4 costs half of the G36, a department could save bucks. A muzzle down appeals to me. Like a scabbard on a horse, butt to rear carry.

      • iksnilol

        I don’t know, vertical carry doesn’t really appeal to me. Seems risky in regards to impaling something in case of a crash. I think of the same thing about hanging it off the side.

        I don’t know why they don’t make some sort of police rifle. Thinking something like the MK18 (that’s what you call the ridiculously short M4, right?) in 300 BLK. I know some police I’ve seen in Bosnia like the M92 (underfolder AK with 10 inch barrel). Probably not authorized xD

        • Kivaari

          The Mk18 If I remember right is 10,3 inch. The Colt Commando comes in various lengths from 11.5 and 12.5.
          My M4 has the Commando 11.5 inch. It isn’t a lightweight as for some reason it has a bull barrel profile, as opposed to the Government profile which is supposed to be light under the hand guards and A2 diameter exposed. I think I will go to my dealer and add a factory Colt 11.5 inch with the pencil barrel. I am not a fan of the .300 Blackout except for suppressed use. It IS adequate for police use with or without a can. I just like the 5.56mm. A short AK in 7.62mm is adequate IF it has quality optics on top. AK sights are just too crude.

          • iksnilol

            I was thinking the one with a 7.5 inch barrel. Would be nice in 300 BLK.

            Eh, depends on your eyes. A file and some nail polish can help AK sights.

  • Just say’n

    Poor solution, just way too dirty of an environment hanging out back like that.
    Saw one at SHOT last year that locks an AR LE carbine in a pannier, safe out of the weather.

    • MR

      My first thought. Also, I wonder how much crash protection that EOtech offers.

    • Sianmink

      Yeah. Would make more sense if it was in a pelican case or such.

      • Kivaari

        Pelican cases tend to be quite over-sized for the gun in use.

    • Bill

      Dirtier than being deployed in AStan or Iraq?

      Granted, bike mounted weapons need more cleaning than those that ride in air conditioning, but these are fighting guns – a little smog and road dust isn’t going to bother them.

      • Jwedel1231

        We are talking about the G36 here, so a little smog might hurt it.

  • Cal.Bar

    I’ve never seen a G36 on a bike, but regularly see AR’s with holographic sights, flashlights etc. Leaving aside the extravagant expense of a G36 vs a regular AR, it bothers me to no end, as I see it as an (unnecessary) militarization of our police force. Here in CA I’m only allowed to defend myself, family and property with a neutered AR with 10 rounds, but a BIKE COP who is expected (and will) likely do NOTHING but write traffic citations all day is armed the same as a marine deployed to Afghanistan? Really? In Orange County , CA. This isn’t Oakland or Watts.

    • MR

      I think the problem isn’t that the police have these weapons, but that law abiding citizens aren’t allowed to.

      • MclarenF1Forever

        Yep. No standard mags, no ergonomic rifles for the citizens, but motorcycle riding ticket writers get G36s.

        • Kivaari

          You don’t know what cops do, do you?

          • Ned Weatherby

            So – you’re an ex-cop living in Idaho.

            FYI, police that ride bikes in Brea, California, and other SOCAL cities are nothing more than Revenue Officers. They exist primarily to extract money from you for any alleged traffic infraction. And you, of all people know that.

            These are probably the two worst posts I’ve ever seen from you, and I’ve upvoted you on a number of occasions.

            Move to a gun friendly state? Really?

          • Kivaari

            I worked in Washington where, at the time, a traffic ticket earned the city $14. The rest went to the state. Our department wrote about 35 tickets a month. That did not pay for the judge, city attorney and court clerk. Other states do have a money machine. That is the wrong system. Police want, at least where I worked, voluntary compliance with the rules of the road. That means not having to issue tickets. At another agency where I worked, I wrote about 100 tickets PER YEAR. That was in a tourist trap, not a speed trap. We probably gave more verbal warnings than any agency. I did lead a DUI task force, where we found lots of drunks. But getting drunks off the road still did not earn much money. Often we had to provide a public defender. if we sent them to jail, that cost us $250 per day at the county jail. So jail was reserved for real bad offenders. If the judge sent them to 30 days, we would take them to a jail over 100 miles away where we could get a cell for $55 per day. It took an officer about 10 hours to take them to jail. At 12 MPG that cost a lot.
            No, we were not money machines. The whole process sucked money out of the city.
            Moving to another state is an option. We did it. After I retired I wanted to buy short barrel shotguns and rifles. WA would no longer allow them. I in Idaho I bought 3, and am working on more. I wouldn’t live in California ever again. I did in 1968 to 1970 while stationed in Long Beach. Never again, just because of politics.

          • throwedoff

            Wow, your county was charging the city $250 a day to house detainees? We know how the county generated income. Seriously, it doesn’t cost a fifth of that to house a detainee even when you factor in the cost of CO’s salaries and basic medical screenings. However, the cost can jump up if the detainee requires expensive psych or medical treatment and medications.

          • Kivaari

            Yep, That is why almost no one but the most obnoxious convicts did not go to jail. If the other jail 100+ miles away ($55/day) would entail taking the convict to a jail nearly 300 miles away. The local sheriff found an avenue to raise money by preying upon the small towns. Most of the time the jails were “in condition red” where there was no room for subjects found with warrants. Unless it was a felony warrant, forget about getting a place. Another local jail was the only other facility with female facilities. If it was their warrant they would take them, otherwise let them walk. Just write them a ticket and off they go.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Google cops and you can find out all kinds of things they do. Rape, robbery, drug dealing, masturbating in public, murder, having sex with animals…to name a few. They are no different then anyone else when it comes down to it. They just have more “power” than we the people do, AT LEAST FOR NOW.

      • Kivaari

        Move to a gun friendly state. You can own whatever you like in Idaho.

    • Brocus

      Wasting money on guns that aren’t needed? It’s the American way. Why do you hate freedom so much?!

      • Kivaari

        Why are those guns unneeded? It is not uncommon for police to get into gun battles with bad guys. Remember the North Hollywood shooting? The cops had to borrow AR15s from a dealer. Shameful.

        • John

          That was 20 years ago.

          • Kivaari

            Why does that matter? Newhall was 40+ years ago. Both are used to train cops today. Ignore past mistakes and you will get a crash course in what to do now. There are many such shoot outs per years where M4 type carbines are used by police. 45 years ago I carried several rifles, a M94 (30-30) M1 carbine (30 cal) and an AR180 (.223).
            Cops need a long gun better than a shotgun. Even NYPD used rifles back in the 1800s. .44-40 Winchester lever actions. Rifles are a way better choice than just about any other firearm. M4 carbines excel in police engagements.

          • Bill

            And those two murderers who broke out of prison in New York was 4 months ago. And the shooting at Umpquaa College was 4 weeks ago.

          • Kivaari

            Bill, You are correct. Incidents where long guns may be needed happen every day. Not all of them make national news. Other cases where killings have happened they come out, and end with a surrender and no more shots fired. Having the long gun handy is better than calling for help. It is why almost every patrol car has a shotgun and rifle handy. It has always been hard to have long guns on motors. I did have a friend that was a motor officer, he did not have a rifle handy and it wouldn’t matter, but he killed two robbers with his .357 M28 6″ when he chased bank robbers into a cul de sac. He didn’t have time to get off the Harley before he came under fire. He shot back straddling the bike. Given time he would have gone for a long gun.

        • Phillip Cooper

          1 time. In 20 years. That is, by definition, uncommon.

          • Kivaari

            That’s simply silly. Cops get into many lesser and not ideal for TV shoot outs many times per month. Like the very old Newhall shooting, it wasn’t filmed, but 4 cops died. Police learned from that. Like NH, now almost every patrol car has a rifle and shotgun onboard. Often having the rifle present stops the fight. Or like in our region and many more around the nation quite a few bad guys are dropping to AR fire. Just a couple of years ago the Coeur d’Alene police had a rolling gun battle, with dash cam and pocket cameras rolling on a wild shoot out. One officer even shot out his windshield to lay fire on the killer. Many of the cops immediately bring the carbine out when there is a shots fired call or report of a gun being displayed during a fight call. Spokane Police did so a couple years ago at a bar fight. They also did so with a chase after a shooting took place. The shotgun armed bad guy was finally shot with handguns, even though rifles were on scene.
            Over my career I hauled out the MP5 many times, without needing to fire. Bank robberies, stakeouts and other potential shootouts calls. I would think cops bring out long guns hundreds of time per month nationwide. When you are given a call that demands being ready for a fight, you breakout your rifle, shotgun or SMG. I packed, as all of us did, an MP5. I don’t know how often we deployed them. I know that We were ahead of many departments when it came to rifles. My first agency had shotguns and rifles 45 years ago. Not stored in a locker at the PD but in the cars. We only had 2 motor officers, and we came close to buying a Mini Uzi for them. Then we simply stopped using motors, as the crash stats and resulting injuries just said STOP. We stopped.

    • Sianmink

      Yes, that run of the mill, non-special team cops have access to weapons that are prohibited to citizens is rather infuriating.

      This will keep happening so long as we allow LE carveouts to stupid laws.

      • Kivaari

        California and idiot states that prohibit private citizens from having good gun should not have special weapons. The people deserve the right to own anything in a police department armory. Cops are not special, contrary to what some cops think. I am a retired patrol sergeant, and find the limits on citizens to be repugnant.

        • Squirreltakular

          Thankfully there are companies like Barrett who refuse to do business with states that heavily restrict civilian gun ownership.

          • Kivaari

            Barrett and a few small companies took the right path. California is a big market, even if it was only agencies serviced. Not allowing the citizens to have these weapons shows how little respect the lawmakers have for people.
            The whole left coast has gone mad regarding guns.
            I know people that moved or are moving inland to escape the idiocy. Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Montana are growing thanks to gun owners. Unfortunately anti-gun Californians are do it also. They want to make the good states into California.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Go Barrett!

      • Kivaari

        How do you know he isn’t a SWAT member?

        • FarmerB

          The half life of any motorcyclist (I’m one as well) means that you wouldn’t want anybody in whom you’d invested the money for SWAT training to be on a bike (half joking).

          • Kivaari

            Except in very large forces where they can support a full-time SWAT units, everywhere else the SWAT officers are just regular cops. Even large SWAT teams can end up doing patrol, as things can calm for awhile. The latest ignorance shown in the black lives matter movement is just typical for ignorant savages gone amok.

        • Ned Weatherby

          I’m with you on the matter of – don’t let police have guns that the citizens (which, by the way, police just happen to be are) can’t legally own.

          I wouldn’t carve out an exception for a SWAT member. Ten round mags, semi-auto only. Guns and mags registered with the state.Guns and mags removed from officer’s possession upon retirement.

          It’s possible that after a time, retired CA LEO’s might just work to fire the people “representing” them, and hire folks who proscribe prohibitions of the Second Amendment or the whole Bill of Rights – even in California. It’s an ugly wake-up call when one discovers that the time spent in law enforcement – up to retirement – doesn’t matter a hoot to the shaved head re-branded Police Hitler Youths masquerading as “Peace Officers” – one who is currently pointing a gun at you for possessing a gun – absent a badge. It puts you in a category you didn’t realize you belonged in – or are now relegated to. That category is: “Citizen.” Just be cool with that, and you’ll begin to understand. If you don’t move too fast, and this Peace Officer isn’t one who slipped under the radar – masturbating at night, hoping to pull the trigger and “look into your eyes as you die” – you may just live.

          Won’t go any farther than to say that I went to school, with, and did martial arts training with the guy quoted above. And he’s actually not a millennial. Heaven knows about some of them.

          • Kivaari

            I find the attitude that cops think they are better than others to be bunk. Some do, and act accordingly. We worked hard to weed out the Alfa Hotel types, the thugs usually didn’t make it far. We had perverts, drunks and thugs over the years. Some even became elected sheriffs. I have always held the belief that the citizens should have access to any weapon the police have. Even though I carried an MP5, I saw no legit reason why as a private citizen I couldn’t have the same. Without added federal paperwork and $200 FET. There were cops I knew that shot others, and they were clean shoots. The public is horrible the way they portray the cops. Claiming they wanted to kill someone. Well, if you are getting shot at, it is good motivation to shoot back. In the early days in 1970 we had to provide our own firearms. I learned real early how ineffective shotguns were. So I liked packing rifles.

          • Tothe

            Cops enforce bad laws. Cops are paid with stolen money. Cops are granted legal immunities, and have no obligation to protect anyone.

          • Kivaari

            Cops do not owe anyone. We were not paid with stolen money. You may think traffic tickets funded us. In WA the city was making $14 per ticket, and we all of us combined wrote about 35 tickets per month. Hardly enough to pay a single cop. And in certain cases have immunities, that are rarely used. Cops have the same rights as other citizens.
            Obviously you hate cops. Well, some places the cops are bad, often corrupt and under trained. That is a problem that states need to control. One of the best way is to put strict limits on what a city or county gets from tickets. My city never earned enough to sustain a court system.

          • Tothe

            Cops are paid with tax revenue. Taxation is extortion under color of law, conveniently enforced by those selfsame cops. Tickets are also extortion, a demand form money backed by threat of harm. If there is no victim, there is no crime.

          • Kivaari

            Cops normally don’t get involved with tax collection. A sheriff’s department with a civil department simply serves court papers. If taxes go uncollected, they will auction the property normally after years of using the courts. Where I worked the civil deputies rarely were involved with evictions. Some crazy people have shot at cops serving papers.

          • Tothe

            How dare people resist theft of their property. Shocking. Why, if guns are ever confiscated, I bet people might really get riled up. I wonder whose job it will be to enforce that? Who already enforces laws against certain firearm types and accessories?

          • Kivaari

            any sheriff’s have openly resisted new gun laws. Like in CO where only a handful supported the new laws. Around 60 sheriff’s said they will not spend a dime on enforcing stupid laws. It is common across the nation, with the exception of the NE and California. Even in more rural N. CA. sheriffs ignore the law. Cops everywhere ignore enforcing stupid laws. We have considerable leeway when presented with outdated or silly laws.

          • iksnilol

            Uh, tax is sorta the price of living in a society.

            this is what happens when people don’t read the terms and conditions before signing.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            What did I sign? A contract somewhere that I didn’t know about? On a McDonalds napkin? We don’t need tax paid cops. A private security force paid with voluntary agreements would be easier to maintain and easier to control. Black ball anyone who goes beyond their scope of duty so they can never get hired as a security operative again.

          • iksnilol

            Private security force? Yeah, that’s a can of worms I won’t be a part of.

            Look at how ineptly private prisons are handled and then imagine a privatized police force. I can bet this privatized police force would issue FMJ because it is cheaper than HPs.

          • Tothe

            What “private prisons”? You mean the ones where government outsources a portion of its monopoly power to corporate cronies, and fills them with more non-criminals because of victimless crime laws? “Private prisons” are no more private than the USPS.

          • Kivaari

            NYPD did issue FMJ Winchester “white box” training ammo to officers. The city council did not want cops to have hollow points (in their minds Dum-Dums). It is one reason so many suspects needed to be shot more times and innocent bystanders with the over penetration (perforations). The idiot leftist are just so overly stupid. The high command in police agencies are political appointments and are always in fear of the bosses.

          • Tothe

            Taxes are extortion. Extortion is anti-civilization and anti-society. And there is no social contract. Mark has already been quoting Higgs, but here’s another.

            “. . . In regard to the so-called social contract, I have often had occasion to protest that I haven’t even seen the contract, much less been asked to consent to it. A valid contract requires voluntary offer, acceptance, and consideration. I’ve never received an offer from my rulers, so I certainly have not accepted one; and rather than consideration, I have received nothing but contempt from the rulers, who, notwithstanding the absence of any agreement, have indubitably threatened me with grave harm in the event that I fail to
            comply with their edicts.” ~ Robert Higgs

            Address the argument please, rather than making baseless assertions. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. was wrong.

          • Kivaari

            Yep!! If your community wants water, sewer, fire protection and police, the money has to come from somewhere. Good people pay their taxes. Where cops are considered the underclass and get poor pay, there is a ripe place for corruption to grow. Government leaders know they can get police at low wages, since many good people want to serve. Their bosses are idiots for underpaying officers.

          • Tothe

            Is rejection of an extortion-funded government monopoly providing a service rejection of the idea of that service altogether? The economic calculation problem guarantees that government can never be frugal, efficient, or effective at serving consumer needs. What is so magical about fire response, medical response, and security response that they are immune to the economic principles that make government so incompetent and corrupt at all other services?

          • Kivaari

            I guess you have never lived in a place where the tax base collapses and much of the community services shrank reflecting that new reality. I’ve seen cities where a 10 person police department went to 2 police officers. No 24-7 police coverage. Where a fire department having a mix of paid and volunteers, to 2 paid and the rest volunteers. Who buys the fire apparatus when a pumper costs $200,000 and a ladder truck is $500,000? You can say let it burn. Medical care at the ambulance level is mostly private. Some places have a fire department or police running an aid car, but leave the transportation to private companies. Like AMR which is private and nationwide. Who trains and certifies the employees? Well, private trainers that meet state standards.
            In many places where the police/sheriff do not have adequate funding can use volunteers that work for free.
            But those people need training that meets state standards. If you do not like paying taxes for government services, then move to a lower taxed place, but don’t expect police-fire-EMS services. I currently live in a small Idaho town, where we have 2 cops. 80% of the cases they handle are felony. With only 20% for traffic and misdemeanor offenses. They don’t write many traffic tickets. I know when I moved here 8 years ago my pension was more than the working cops. The county gets what it can afford, and we have poor county police. If you want low taxes, there are many places with minimal taxes but if you want a fire truck to put out your house fire, you wont have one. Well, state DNR that’s 50 miles away. I’ve seen it where an area refuses to fund a fire department. Just outside a city with a good FD, It wont come since you chose not to live in a fire district. Have a burglar in your house, the sheriff is 70 miles away and no one is on duty thanks to no funding. There is a county in Oregon that had to shrink to 3 officers. Sheriff’s run the jail. It take 5.5 people to have 24-7 coverage. That is if no one gets sick, goes for training, takes a vacation. Then county has to ship prisoners to another county, and that doesn’t save any money.
            Communities exist out of need. Individuals can only did so many outhouse holes and water wells. The answer is sewer lines and water lines and they vote to tax themselves.

          • Socrates Wilde

            Why do you presume this is the only way one can obtain these services? Just because it’s “always been that way” doesn’t mean that it’s right or cannot be changed.

          • Kivaari

            Because it is a proven system. You could create a town, like a few odd ducks have done. Let’s say you created a 1,500 person town. You are not incorporated as a town or city with a state recognized municipal incorporation. Okay what do you do for police? Pay county taxes for the sheriff. Do you want a fire department? How do you fund your fire service? Form a fire corporation where everyone in your town chips in for apparatus (at $250,000 per truck). What if there are 5-10 story buildings, do you want a ladder truck at $500,000? Who pays? Or you could form a fire district, so the county will collect taxes to fund it.
            Do you want water and sewer lines? Who pays, since you cannot drill wells and outhouses in close proximity. You will need money, who pays? As I pointed out elsewhere, a loose community out of a city, even within view, and your people consistently vote NO on forming a fire district. If a home or homes are burning how do you fight the fire? I actually saw this happen often where voters turned down a tax increase to fund a FD.
            Other places sell subscriptions for fire services. The FD checks the record of who paid and who didn’t. You didn’t pay, your property burns. The neighbors house is covered, and the FD puts water on it to keep your fire from destroying his house. YOU lose. I hope you have expensive insurance. As it will go higher if you don’t live where protection exists. Many places do have ambulance services from private companies. It works, but your fees will go up if the company has too many NO pay customers. It is that way, as it has existed like that already. You pay or you don’t. Who makes sure you get good people responding? Of course if you didn’t have laws that certify EMS workers, you could have service like we had in the 40s and 50s. When an ambulance was needed the two gas station workers jump in an old station wagon AKA: Ambulance. The grease covered driver and assistant are untrained.

          • Kivaari

            Wrong. A crime has a victim. The state wants justice for victims, and if it is serious enough the person that killed his neighbor goes to prison.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            No, he is RIGHT. As Professor Higgs has stated in the Good Cop Bad Cop question…

            “The whole Good Cop / Bad Cop question can be disposed of much more decisively. […] We need only consider the following:

            (1) A cop’s job is to enforce the laws, all of them;

            (2) Many of the laws are manifestly unjust, and some are even cruel and wicked;

            (3) Therefore every cop has to agree to act as an enforcer for laws that are manifestly unjust or even cruel and wicked.

            There are no good cops.”

            — Robert Higgs

          • Kivaari

            Not so in the real world. Cops do not just arrest people for every event that is against the law. cops seek VOLUNTARY COMPLIANCE with the community and state laws. We gave many more verbal warnings than issuing tickets/summons. I ran a program that stressed education over arresting. We had a program where a cop issues a notice of infraction for the driver not having a child passenger restraint (car seat). They would go to the county court, get directed to my office, where I would not only give them a car seat and installing it. I signed a document they took back to district court where the citation was voided. So the ticket cost them nothing, and they get a car seat(s) for free.
            Voluntary compliance is the most important aspect. That means don’t drive 60 in a 30 zone and similar simple things.

          • Tothe

            Demanding compliance with bad laws under duress is called “tyranny.”

          • Kivaari

            Move. I have to buy dog tags. $10 each. Only ~85 people buy them, but they want a city pound, but wont fund it. Then they complain when the police impound the dog. Buy a tag. It’s a small price to pay. With a tag a lost pet gets returned. Is that so bad? I guess, suspect, you are mad because you want to smoke pot and hate big brother bothering you. Most people I’ve seen complaining like you are pot heads.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            Some cops ARE wanting to kill someone. And some ARE killing innocent kids and adults. The list is endless.

          • Kivaari

            That’s true. Like other people they are flawed. I know cops that did murder others. Some were burglars, while on duty. Rapists that ended up in prison. There is lots of room for corruptions, whether at an individuals level or agency level.

          • bmrtoyo

            a swat team with 10 round mags ,are you nuts ,,if they were responding to help your wife and kids ,or parents ,you would want them under-gunned ?,,think logically

          • Tothe

            If we don’t need it, they don’t need it. Full-capacity mags, SBRs, full-auto or burst-fire modes, you name it.

          • Ned Weatherby

            A swat team, “responding to help your wife and kids ,or parents” – that’s some funny stuff, there.

            We’re from the government and we’re here to help you…

    • May

      Politics not firearms.
      Forgive me for being rambly and likely a bit condescending but I would think that gun owners would know better than to fall for that propaganda. If the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged then it sure as hell should not be abridged as soon as someone decides they’re going to keep and bear arms to protect their community, regardless of whether they wear a badge. This whole militarization load of crap is orchestrated by the same people behind the spooky tactical assault weapon bans for the same purpose, and you should all well know that it has the same effect. In France they’ve been trying to avoid police looking “scary tacticool militarized” by giving them Mini-14s, that gun that most Americans know as the AWB-legal AR alternative. Banning polymer furniture and rails makes as much sense for cops as it does for citizens, and as armed citizens we should all know how much sense that is: none. Don’t get me wrong, in places like the People’s Republic of California there are a lot more people who should be allowed to own those things than there are, but don’t take it out on the few who can, because all taking their guns away does is make a case for why someone should start taking yours.

      • Kivaari

        Excellent remarks.

    • Anonymoose

      If it was Oak-Land or Watts, upon entering the city limits, said cop would most likely be immediately GLOCK’d, and his motorcycle, G36/AR, service pistol, and other duty gear taken from him.

      • Kurt Akemann

        Not easy to hit a moving target and most gangs won’t endure the heat that comes from killing a cop just to get a select-fire rifle.

        • Anonymoose

          I dunno about that. There have been a lot of cop-killings in the past year.

        • Sianmink

          Gangs have rifles, and hardly ever use them, because they’re more valuable to them as status symbols than as weapons. (because the smart ones discard weapons after use)

          • Kivaari

            There have been quite a few shootouts involving suspects with rifles. It is why NYPD has used rifles for over 110 years.

          • Kivaari

            Gangs like drive by shootings. In the dark where they fire and scoot.

          • iksnilol

            Stupid people throw away weapons, you just circulate them. “Crew hopping”.

            RIfles are mainly status symbols, that’s true.

        • Kivaari

          It may be semi auto.

      • All the Raindrops

        Are you trolling or stupid?

    • Joe

      The militarization argument always makes me laugh. In an armed conflict LE needs to provide maximum effectiveness to stop the threat as fast as possible. If that means a G36 or an AR when the aggressor may have a weapon with similar firepower then so be it. One could argue who escalated first (LE or criminals) but the reality is that semi auto rifles are needed in today’s environment. That is unless you want the military patrolling the streets and relegate LE to pistols or less lethal only. I think the Constitution says something about that. Also, motor officers are routinely dispatched to hot calls. Saying a particular type of officer will not “need” a particular type of equipment is shortsighted. Think Paris where unarmed bicycle officers responded to the Charlie Hebdo shooting. That went well. Also, assuming that an officer works in a “low” crime area (your distinction between OC and the bad parts of LA) means they don’t need the same hardware is also shortsighted. A quick Google search showed there was a armed robbery of a jewelry store just 2 days ago in Mission Viejo. Lastly, move to a decent state or defend your rights (not saying you personally are not but CA shows a trend that gun owners were not willing to stand up against antis). I agree 10 rounds and no way to easily reload may not enough in a HD situation. I moved from CA over a decade ago and will never go back.

      • Kivaari

        Good response. I never understood why people think cops, not in a special unit, don’t face extreme circumstances. Normally it is your average street cop that is first in-scene. They may be the only troops on scene for quite some time. Like the North Hollywood event. The patrol officers on-scene only had pistols and buckshot loaded shotguns. The robbers had full body armor and machineguns. 7,62x51mm and 7,63x39mm rifles with thousands of rounds. The first cops were outgunned. SWAT was at least an hour away since all of them were attending training at the academy. Bad planning, to save money. If you watch the takedown of the first suspect, the cops were in shorts using borrowed rifles. Just think if the first officers on-scene had M4 carbines or M14s.

      • n0truscotsman

        I have always disagreed with the “militarization of police” argument when it comes to the types of firearms they use.

        Historically, rifles of the more or less same type used by the military have always been used by constabulary/law enforcement/deputies in the United States.

        I would actually prefer a law enforcement officer have a ‘patrol rifle’ since new ammunition loadings give them excellent accuracy, a respectable ability to stop a threat without risk of overpenetration, and wide varieties of optical sights.

        Many of the ‘militarization of police’-types also do not like guns, but curiously, they never fail to bring up how ‘safe and secure’ europe is, envying the grass on the other side of the fence. Factually, police in other nations have ‘militarized’ as well.

        There are far better arguments against law enforcement than what they carry. I wont get into that since that goes beyond the subject of this article.

        • iksnilol

          The problem is that cops can have guns that we mere, lowly civilians can’t.

          For instance, if a LEO carries a FA M16 it is okay. If I do that then it is a felony.

          • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

            And since there would be no victim for you carrying it or having it, if I was on your jury I’d hang it or convince the rest of the jurors to find you NOT GUILTY. The founding fathers wanted a system similar to Switzerland to be in place where the civilians were the military and had SAM missiles in their garage.

          • iksnilol

            Problem is, you probably won’t be on that jury.

            Honestly, I don’t care what people have. But I know some people care what I have. And those people can put me in prison.

      • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

        Why don’t you READ the Constitution and then you won’t have to “think” about what it says.

      • Tothe

        If cops need guns when SHTF, how much more do we lowly mundanes need them? After all, YOU are the first responder. Cops are 15 minutes away even if they can be contacted.

    • Kivaari

      He may do traffic, but he is still a COP first and foremost. Motor officers go on any call, especially a high risk call. Just showing up with a pistol is not a wise thing to do.

    • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

      But, but, but, they are SPECIAL! One day I see this guy pushing shopping carts at Walmart. A few months later I see him driving a patrol car for the local PD, a couple of years later I see him in plain clothes…WAAA LAAA, now the shopping cart pusher is a detective. So since he is so special he should have a MRAP or who knows what else to drive around in and have these kinds of weapons at his disposal while WE THE PEOPLE get to have what “they” deem we can. Time for some rethinking, people.

  • Matt

    Shot a Colt SCW that was suggested for motor use once. It was to have been fitted vertically inside a rear hardbag.

  • 360_AD

    Judging by how much dust and road grime is on the rifle, I have doubts about the officer’s proficiency with it. But, with a disarmed popullation, that shouldn’t be a problem, ever. /sarcasm.

  • Taofledermaus

    Just seems like the worst place to mount it. I could see it tucked in the fairing or anywhere out of the weather or reach of people wanting to stuff something down the barrel.

  • Tassiebush

    If only this had been posted before the G36’s name was cleared there’d be lots of scope for “junk in the trunk” puns.

    • MR

      Regardless of what Steve says (or types), I wouldn’t exactly call the G36’s name “cleared”. JMHO

  • Gary Dobson

    If the police are allowed to have it, the the general public should be also!
    After all as taxpayers we paid for them……..

  • Until you walk in our shoes your opinion is just that an opinion not based on factual first hand experience.
    In the late 70’s we carried Remington semi-autos in 30-06. In the 1980’s it was the MP5 and now it’s an AR. As far as knives there are a lot of uses for them besides combat.
    I saw officers in riot gear and black or dark blue SWAT gear. I never saw anyone wearing MARPAT.
    I’ve gone up against a suspect with an automatic weapon so I certainly was justified in having a semi-auto AR.

    • Evan

      I’m not swayed. The job of police is to maintain order, not to be combatants. When police act as combatants against the populace at large, this is problematic for obvious reasons. Regardless of what you saw in Ferguson, I saw pictures of cops in woodland MARPAT, and was as disgusted by that as I was by the savagery of the rioters. And a knife may have myriad uses, I don’t deny that, but that doesn’t extend to civilian police needing Ka-Bar fighting knives. You want a folding knife in your pocket? Fine, I have no problem with that. A cop who straps a Ka-Bar to his gear should be fired. Like I said, appearances matter.

      I’m not saying that police don’t occasionally come across circumstances where a rifle would be useful. I’m saying that A, they’re too rare to justify the standard issue of rifles to police, and B, the overwhelming majority of these circumstances can be handled by backup taking them out of a locker in the station. Either way, if you’re a cop, you should realize that the job comes with risks, and there has to be a balance between risk mitigation and police posture. You are not trained soldiers. You should not be. You want to patrol the streets with a rifle, join the Marines.

      • Kivaari

        Perhaps an issued K-Bar makes sense to a paramilitary force that may face all kinds of resistance. Your arguments are without merit. Having to call for help with guns locked at the PD appeals to you. Remember to citizens when seconds count the cops are minutes away. When an officer needs help, his back up with the gear is minutes away. That happened in North Hollywood where only in supervisors cars out of place, Those sergeants and LTs only carried buckshot “because slugs were too dangerous” found out that body armor stopped pistol and buckshot. No rifles were available, but were an hour away. Cops borrowed guns from a gun store and get some slugs. This was a television show type event. But lesser things happen daily. You are simply clueless. Now every LAPD car has a rifle and a shotgun. They initially got surplus M16s, and ground off the full auto surfaces. Idiots in charge in LA.

      • Kivaari

        I have to love it. A resident deputy 70 miles from the office, and the only deputy on duty in an area bigger than Rhode Island needs to wait for backup from the station. The nearest police could be tribal police 40 miles away. The nearest municipality is 45 miles away. In 1970 that agency issued .351 Winchester rifles. A puke of a round.
        When AIM blew up buildings they were 40 miles from me. When AIM shot up a tribal police car, I was still 40 miles away. When AIM slightly wounded an officer I was still 40 miles away. Just how do we get there fast enough to matter?
        Cops ARE warriors. We are targeted by many enemies of society. If you live in a big city, like NY, where you are surrounded by too many, under skilled cops, about all you see are cops shooting bystanders and fellow officers. That is not a good thing. If ESU is just standing around with machineguns looking goofy, then maybe they need to be back in the cars with guns locked in the trunk. We put the SMGs in the front seating area. If ambushed, it is better to have a gun close by. The trouble with too many people that can’t see outside of their own surroundings. You can’t relate to a deputy, the only road officer on duty in a state sized county with 7,000 residents. The tax base can’t support more cops. You can’t afford your own jail and you need what you may need with you. Right just call for back up. They can get there in time to do a liver temperature on you body.
        Those officers need help from the public. When I was first hired two of us had the whole north county to cover. Where was our back up? When one of us was doing dispatch, and no patrolman on the streets, just who did we call? Well, we put all the incoming lines on hold and get to the scene. No one in dispatch, no one taking calls, and only yourself to do it all. But we did have training.

        • Evan

          I didn’t bother reading anything you wrote after “cops are warriors”. That was enough to prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that you are a threat to society and have no business being in law enforcement. Disgusting.

          • Kivaari

            So you remain ignorant of life.

    • Kivaari

      You are correct. In 1970 I started with M1 carbines, AR180,
      shotguns, We had some ARs sparsely available. We went to MP5s in 87, then in 1999 to M4-type carbines (still called AR15 on the side) then I retired in 02. I want cops to have the very best of gear. In 1970 we had solid green army uniforms, a very good color. Then woodland BDUs and would have gone for the new stuff if I were still selecting gear. I think the wide-spread use of M4 carbines is great.
      In the 70s we mostly had shotguns, but I used the AR180. When I had every officer qualify on it, some said when are we going to use that (the only one we had). I responded they will probably take it from my dead body. That made sense to them, so no one complained. We had stuff from several previous decades. Revolvers ruled, and when I went to a S&W M39-2 the chief just couldn’t accept it. Back to a .357, that I loaded with .38Special ammo. It made sense to hit with less than to miss with more. Same happened at my second agency, I was the only 9mm user and everyone else had .45s. I told the chief the same thing, better to get there with less than miss with .45s. It caused change where everyone was issued 9mm Glocks.

  • James Francis

    This may be a silly question; why are the police markings white written over white paint? I would think a police vehicle carrying a visible assault rifle (I assume these are select fire) would want to be more easily identifiable…

  • Fruitbat44

    US Law Enforcement not riding Harleys . . . the end of days is upon us.

  • Nate Drake

    Wow. So according to the police…

    Proper self defense weapon for traffic cop? G36 assault rifle.

    Proper self defense weapon for a citizen? Pepper spray. And we certainly have no need for a firearm that holds over 10 rounds.

    • Kivaari

      Traffic cops? He may be assigned to primary duties doing traffic. But he is a cop first and will go on all calls. Especially high threat calls. Proper defense for citizens is one or more handguns while just doing shopping. If you are in the bush I add a rifle. Pepper spray is just one weapon cops use, along with a baton, duty pistol, back up revolver, rifle, shotgun (less lethal) .22LR (animal control) and sometimes a 37 or 40mm gun for less lethal (gas or sponge rounds).
      If you think motor officers simply do traffic, you don’t know cops.

  • Kivaari

    You are clueless regarding police, police equipment and tactics. Pistols are for sudden self defense. If the cops have advanced warning of a situation they bring bigger guns. Wearing clothing suitable for rolling in the dirt makes more sense than ruining a quality uniform. Having this gear is proper for our era. 40 years ago we still wore military clothing when doing searches, stakeouts and similar events. Then it was Vietnam era military clothing. As time went on and materials to better protect the cops shifted to BDU in appropriate colors to match the terrain. When they wanted to wear all black I protested as it was poor compared to camo, and it gave the thug look. Just like the hair cuts popular now. Having the armor vehicles that cost a department $1, makes sense as well. Too many times people are down and wounded and there is not vehicle that can withstand the gun fire coming from the rioters. This gear saves lives.

    • Evan

      I said that I had no problem with police departments owning a small number of rifles for specific (rare) situations. I have a problem with patrol cops carrying them, and I think that they’re grossly overused, but in certain circumstances, sure, open up the weapons locker.

      Your arguments about cammies are bunk. There is no reason why blue won’t work for any given situation. As far as getting them dirty, they have this amazing technology called a washing machine. You aren’t soldiers, and you should not look like soldiers. I also understand the need for armored vehicles in certain cases – a Brinks truck would serve police needs fine. You aren’t facing IEDs or RPGs. As I keep saying, appearances matter.

      • Kivaari

        Camo clothing, military grade clothing is much cheaper to replace than conventional clothing. When we did stakeouts we wore a uniform shirt under a tactical vest. The arms had the department shoulder patches and the vest a regular badge. The pants were BDUs and combat boots. If you have to chase down a suspect uniforms get ruined, Dirt is one thing but barbed wire fencing, shipping containers and in the woods is another. It is stupid to wear regular uniforms where they are likely to be ruined, not just dirtied. The newer body armor have shoulder pads, that people complain about being too aggressive looking. Well they are there because so many cops on teams or not going into a hot scene, present the shoulder to incoming fire. Many officers were killed even though they had the best vests. But shoulders not being covered let bullets into the chest and cover the whole upper torso. But it is mean looking.
        Every patrol officer needs to be trained and issued a rifle (preferably) and/or shotgun. EVERY OFFICER.
        It doesn’t matter if it is a big department or small town. Frequently in small departments the officer is all alone. No close backup. So let them have every piece of gear for that “just in case” scenario.
        Rifles like the M4 or G36 are much safer to use in an urban setting than shotguns. It is easy to control one bullet while you can’t control 9 pieces of buckshot. A .223 bullet is easy to hit a man at 100 yards. A load of buckshot expands so much that each pellet with little effect can kill bystanders. A 12 ga. slug has a lopping 10 inches of drop and unless aimed by a scope chances are it wont hit.

        • Evan

          I understand the need for replaceable clothing, but blue works just as well. They make blue pants in the same cut and of the same material as cammies. Police wearing camouflage is inexcusable. As I say time and time again, you are not soldiers. You are not combatants. If your posture (which includes uniforms) is one of war against the populace, you are wrong.

          Rifles are almost never necessary for police, and should never be carried in patrol cars or used except in extreme contingency. Again, you are not riflemen, your job is to protect and serve, not to fight. A defensive sidearm is one thing, an offensive weapon is inappropriate in almost every circumstance.

          As for body armor, I have no problem with police wearing the best available. Body armor is a defensive weapon, and, despite what you may think, I am by no means anti-police. You deserve the best protection available. That being said, I much prefer the older style helmets without the military appearance when helmets are required. I don’t know if they make those out of modern materials though, and if they don’t, I don’t grudge you the best you can get. Helmets and armor should be blue, never camouflage or coyote brown, and should be clearly marked POLICE.

          I have a huge problem with police pretending to be soldiers. You are not. You are civilians. Your job is to maintain order, not to do battle. I understand that police have an important job to do, but the fact remains that you are government agents with arrest power; which makes you inherently dangerous.

          • Kivaari

            Solid colors do not work as well as camo when you need to get into position to observe, Solid blue or black (LAPD blue) is easier to spot.

          • Evan

            Most observation can be done in plainclothes. If not, make the small sacrifice. In Iraq, I wanted to call in airstrikes on mosques, but we weren’t allowed to. I made do. You’re talking about an exponentially smaller problem than that.

            In the early 1990s, New York was basically the Wild West. The NYPD cleaned it up. They wore blue uniforms the entire time, and did not and do not carry long guns. For that matter, they don’t even have sidearms that actually work (I’m sure you’ve heard of the “New York trigger”), and their firearms training is next to nil. Today, NYC is the safest big city in the country. Yes, there are still parts of NY that are rather hellish, but the NYPD manages to handle them without rifles and cammies. Their tactical team, the ESU, is a joke. I once saw them hanging about and their sergeant had his AimPoint mounted backwards on his rifle. NY cops I know have told me that ESU is basically an exclusive club that the only qualification to get into is knowing someone, and that they don’t actually do anything.

            If it can be done in New York, it can be done basically anywhere in the country.

          • Kivaari

            You have an urban view of police work. What do you wear when in the brush tracking escapees, poachers, a crew from a stolen car ring, that fled into the brush? NYC is not what America is all about.
            NYPD doesn’t carry long guns? Tell that to the cops walking around with MP5 submachine guns and M4 carbines. Tell that to the NYPD cops that have used rifles for 120 years. NYPD carries them out in the open, during daylight hours – just who are those guys? NYPD issues Glocks with incredably heavy triggers work. They just work poorly. It is a main reason they shoot so many innocent bystanders. ESU does do police work. They carry rifles and shotguns and SMGs. They do high angle rescues (as does the FD). They are the divers as well. I have little respect for NYPD. The NYPD doesn’t train well. The 11-14 pound triggers are down right wrong. Our department issued Glocks with 3.5 pound triggers. We were trained. We fired around 350 rounds per month, in good and bad weather. I doubt NYPD fires that much in a year. You need to travel in woodlands where a deputy or small town cop doesn’t have backup on tap. Never judge police on how NYC does things. They are not a shining example of what police elsewhere work.
            When you see a search for a bad guy and his buddies following a robbery, wouldn’t you want to blend in with the brush. It happens in rural areas often.

          • Evan

            NYPD does not generally carry long guns, openly or not. ESU does, and, like I said, they don’t actually do anything except stand around in their gear looking awkward. As I said, NYPD does an amazing job at actual police work with guns that don’t actually work (the 12lb triggers make for a firearm that is essentially useless). I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have guns that aren’t modified to be junk, I’m saying that they’re effective at being police with them (and with minimal firearms training). NYPD actually IS a shining example of police work. They took an incredibly high crime city and effectively cleaned it up. That’s what police are for. Thanks to NYPD, most parts of New York are safe to walk in after dark (not that most reasonable people want to be in New York in the first place)

            I don’t care if you’re chasing bad guys through the woods, you don’t need camouflage. What about khaki? Plenty of sheriffs departments wear khaki, the PA state police wear grey, etc. Camouflage for police is unacceptable. You are not soldiers. I don’t know where rural policing is basically the Vietnam War, as you make it out to be, but every rural area I’ve lived in or visited was a low crime area where police didn’t do any of your high-speed, low-drag tacticool shenanigans that apparently require Abrams tanks and ghillie suits and all manner of similar gear. In an area with a low population density, where do you even find all these criminal masterminds?

          • Marcus Toroian

            How can you sit here and repeatedly say that patrolmen don’t need rifles? That is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard from a reader here. When someone gets a domestic disturbance call to Jim Bob’s trailer uppda’ mountain, and he comes out with his scoped hunting rifle or AR, would you want to be limited to your sidearm when facing a POS with a far more accurate weapon that could zip right through your vehicle and vest?

            There are far more instances of regular law enforcement needing to bring a long gun into action than you seem to think. I have seen it first hand on two occasions, and know of many more just here locally. Yes, there is an argument to be made about intimidation factor (which isn’t always a bad thing), and overuse, but if you’re going to get in a gunfight, you want the advantage. Whether the POS has a pistol or long gun, you are going to be MUCH better off with 30 rounds of 5.56 on tap, and a far more stable shooting platform than any sidearm could offer.

            No, I don’t want Joe Cop cruising around town every day in all black or camo military garb, LBE, a select fire M4 slung on, and a balaclava, but that’s an extreme scenario that I’ve personally never even heard of. It also does not mean that patrol officers should not have rifles locked up in their vehicle.

            I will say this though. The township surrounding my town of around 30k residents is almost entirely suburban/rural. They have a Lenco Bearcat, TWO M240B machine guns, at least one SMAW anti-tank rocket launcher, a fully equipped SWAT team, and God knows what else. That’s just the stuff I have either seen, or have been told about by members of that department.

            That, in my opinion, is ridiculous. Officers with rifles are not.

          • Kivaari

            Excellent !!!

          • Kivaari

            In NYC the police bullied the people with unlawful searches.

          • iksnilol

            You whine about Kivaari beeing a thug but you wanted airstrikes on mosques? Throwing stones in glass house… something, something… hypocrisy.

            People like you are one of the reasons I have a rifle.

            Also you call NYC one of the safest cities. That kinda shows how disconnected from reality you are.

          • Evan

            If you can’t see the difference between destroying the enemy’s indoctrination centers/terrorist headquarters and adopting a wartime posture in the United States, it shows how disconnected from reality YOU are.

            And New York is the safest big city in the US, or at least was until DeBlasio came along. Look it up. I’m not claiming safest overall city/town by any means, that would be absurd, and there are still high crime areas, but crime for the most part is contained within those few areas; the majority of the city has been largely a safe place to live for about 20 years now.

          • Kivaari

            Seriously? Tell that to the bad guys. EVERY car should have rifles. Every officer should be able to deflate a suspect out to 200 yards. No shotgun can do that. Cops need to be able to meet and beat any threat. Whet do you do when the suspect(s) have a rifle? Sit down and cry? I look at the San Ysidro killing when a friend was in charge of that district. Sun Tans would have been better. The SWAT team were ordered to get into camo before going in, so more people died. Then speed was needed, so damn the SWAT. Since patrol officers did not have adequate weapons, they were told to stand down. That result led to over 30 dead. It took 3-45 minutes to get SWAT on-scene. Had Bob not hesitated more would have lived. I would have grabbed a couple of patrol officers with 6″ M10 revolvers and moved on Hubety. Like Columbine where the officers arrived and held back, while people died. Having a rifle is a needed bonus, that saves innocent lives.

          • Evan

            Look at New York. No rifles, no shotguns, no cammies, barely any firearm training at all. The cops there do a fine job.

            Columbine was one of those contingency situations I talked about. Most cops will spend their entire careers seeing nothing like that. The police response showed a need for better training, not heavier weapons.

          • Kivaari

            NYPD is grossly undertrained.

          • Comprehension

            Kivaari, you Sir, have no business in uniform on the streets with a weapon and the power of arrest. You seriously just used the comment, and I damn well will quote you, “Every officer should be able to deflate a suspect…”. A suspect, emphasis added, has not been given due process and by all inference, you are comfortable usurping the power afforded to you by …the People by denying someone suspected of a crime due process. You just admitted to being okay with violating the Bill of Rights. You, Sir, are damn lucky I cannot report you to your supervisors as a potential threat to the foundation of this country. If that suspect actively threatens your life in pursuit of said suspect, THAN you are justified in defending yourself with force (self defense shooting) – but until then, you are just looking to “Get some”. Individual situations and circumstance can dictate a lot in regards to what is needed and not – however, your general comment assures that I can give a damn less if you voluntarily take a job with the possibility of being harmed and are justifying making your job safer by the ability of deflating suspects from 200yrds. You obviously belong in fast food.

          • Kivaari

            You have no idea how the system works. When a couple cops were ambushed last year, thousands of cops in military clothing , body armor and weapons went into search mode chasing the suspect. An armed suspect poses a great risk, especially after sniping two troopers.
            Was it OK for them to gear up looking for a “suspect”
            Cops can and do deflate suspects if that person poses a continuing threat to officer and the public. If you see the suspect still armed, you can shoot him or her in the back as they are running away. I guess you don’t know, that that is why police have those powers.
            You seem hooked on camo clothing. Too bad, you suggest tan, OK, how about flat dark earth matching the terrain. When its the desert that works. Coyote color works well as camouflage in the right terrain. Its a solid color. Then in the corn fields of Iowa, they can wear solid green BDUs. In the mountains with green trees that still works. Then when you get into Upstate NY, PA, NH, ME and the PNW where it is heavily forested, they are well off to use woodland color camouflage since it blends in. It is silly to send cops on a chase wearing regular uniforms. Any color that stands out is the wrong color. Solid black and blue makes a person stand out like a black bear in a berry patch. YOU, if you are chasing bad guys do not want to stand out. I guess until you attend a basic LE academy. you will live in a fantasy world. Get over it. Chasing a cop killer or a mass killer that remains a threat to the public can be shot down from 200 yards. Just why do the cops carry sniper rifles and machineguns? I guess pistol with 12# triggers is what you want. Then YOU do the job, if you are smart enough and brave enough.

          • Kivaari

            Oh, by the way I retired 13 years ago, and it was my chiefs that issued me a machinegun and demanded I had basic and advanced academies and constant firearms training. We qualified each month firing ~350 rounds from handguns (we carried two) MP5 and M4 carbines. We had enough that we did not put the full-sized M16A1 and M14 rifles in the cars. They we the one we left in the station. Since every officer had 5 gun in the patrol cars, and if we had an issue the back ups coming from off duty could grab a longgun with which to kill a SUSPECT, needing killed. In 100 years we had only one officer killed.
            Being prepared helps. Being trained helps. Oh, by the way we never killed a suspect in that same 100 year period. Not too bad, since we knew how to do what needed done. Officers nearby, had lost 8 officers and only killed a few SUSPECTs. Grow a set and face reality.

          • Kivaari

            Dark blue or black is intimidating. Camo works well in the woods, like many of the chasers know, It happens everywhere, unless it is dead desert. You do not want to standout in the terrain when chasing bad guys (often in camo). You have to be an urbanite. Often people from the concrete jungle can’t relate to cops in rural areas. Where I worked, standing out can mean an early death.

          • Evan

            Dark blue screams “police”. Camouflage is far more intimidating, it screams “soldiers”. I’ve lived in cities and rural areas (I prefer the country), and in rural areas there’s even less need for all the military posture you’re talking about.

      • Kivaari

        A brinks truck isn’t handy when you need them. A used one costs a huge amount compared to a $1 price for an MRAP. Cops do face IEDs, usually small anti personnel types. A friend was on the Marine Corp bomb team based in Quantico. They DID have a chance to disarm a 3.5″ rocket aimed down an ally in DC.

        • Evan

          Yeah, a Marine Corps EOD team. They need MRAPs. You can get a Brinks truck, having MRAPs is completely inappropriate for police. If you’re worried about the price, how about selling off about 90% of the rifles you don’t need?

          Funny how police used to have civilian armored vehicles, and now you suddenly need war machines. And the fact that you don’t understand why I take issue with this is even worse than the fact that you’re defending it in the first place.

          I don’t care if you’re a cop in Detroit or Baltimore or Camden or whatever other hellish ghetto. It isn’t Fallujah. If you’re dressed and equipped like I was in Fallujah, this is a very serious problem.

          • Kivaari

            I guess you are OK with how NJ state police patrol in dark blue BDUs. Talk about thugs.

          • Evan

            NJ state police wear light blue uniforms that look like something the Gestapo would wear. Just stop, Feliks. Go respond to a domestic dispute in an Apache helicopter or something. You disgust me.

          • Kivaari

            They do have those gestapo hats, with the brim pointed at their toes. They have SWAT patrolling in dark blue BDUs. Very obnoxious attire whether in a class A uniform or BDUs. We only wore combat clothing when dictated by circumstances and training.

          • Kivaari

            Where do we get a Brink’s truck?

  • Unknown as far as I’m aware.

  • iksnilol

    My google fu revealed the following:

    -A passerby named Nick Gonzales saw the rifle was unattended and took the photo.

    -No police officers were in sight

    -An officer got back into the car and drove off with the rifle still on the trunk. A woman saw this and followed the car to tell the officer about the rifle

    -Seattle Police Department launched an investigation into the matter and apologized.

    Srsly, guys. Just right click the picture, then click “search with this picture” or something and look around.

    • Kivaari

      Thanks. I have to admit I am not computer savvy like my 9 year old grandson. I didn’t even know you could do that.
      That kind of mistake is not excusable. Always take care of you weapons, never do what that officer did. It is why slings are used.
      A friend shot himself, because he did not want to put his off-duty gun on the trunk. Breaking his own rule he put the G27 (mini .40 Glock) in his right front pocket..
      It was all about a SWAT callout for an officer involved shooting that was on-going. A deputy had been in an exchange of fire with one suspect. As the team formed coming from 40 to 50 miles away, he pocketed the Glock. The same pocket with the car keys. His tactical vest wouldn’t fit over his pistol. Well, his passenger needed the keys. He reached into his pocket and withdrew the keys, first with no NG. The second time, he felt the aluminum ID tag going through the trigger guard, but couldn’t stop, so the pistol fired, hitting above the knee and about 8-10 inches through flesh. OH, crap that was the team leader down. He is off to the hospital, his camo wearing team mates made the assault, and found the suspect dead, by his own hand.
      A few years later a federal fugitive was located. They assembled, wearing camo, but large POLICE panels on the vests. The “SUSPECT” didn’t care. He stepped out and shot one officer, then retreated. The “SUSPECT” sent his wife out (she was also a fugitive) then set the house on fire. He came out in body armor, helmet and gas mask with a rifle. The “SUSPECT” was shot several times. Taken dead or alive, but quite dead. Some people think wearing camouflage upsets some people on this blog. Having longguns bothers them. Shooting suspects while they were suspects bothers them as it circles past the court system. Well, sometimes people need shooting to protect police and public. A shooting suspect needs stopping.

      • iksnilol

        I don’t think people complain about the camo, I think it is the millitary mindset and hardware that bothers people. LE and police are still technically civilians IIRC. Remember that rabid anti-gun officer who started killing his own? The one they “accidentally” burnt alive by using some older CS gas or something that was flammable and then “accidentally” using tracers in their rifles. I mean, I don’t mind it, but it was unprofessional. People still want the division between millitary and LE. For good reason.

        But yes, times are changing. Adapt or die as the old adage goes. I’m sorta stuck in limbo. I am good with most firearms. Using them, maintaining them, fixing them and even building them if needed. Then I realize something, we shooters? We aren’t useful anymore. Never really were to begin with. Artillery is what kills people, air superiority, tanks, that kinda thing is what gives results. We shooters? Just to feed the cannons (both breach and muzzle if you understand what I mean), somebody they can hail a hero or damn as a villain aswell. And in this modern “peaceful” word we are even less relevant. I mean, lets get real, how often do you need to shoot someone? Considering how much you trained even a shootout a week is low compared to how much time was spent training and preparing.

        And in todays consumerist society you get shady looks from fixing or making stuff instead of buying it. Considering my love of tinkering that puts me in a bad spot, or more correctly, a worse spot. I remember my brothers giving me stupid looks for making a pencil case instead of being “normal” and buying one (that doesnt’ even fit my needs).

        Sorry for breaking off into a rant there, I just feel irrelevant with my skillset. Only “useful” thing I know is computers. “Useless” skills such as fixing, making and shooting stuff need not apply.

        Back on topic: forget your clothes, but never your tools. (Kinda rhymes too). Because the former will only earn you ridicule, but the latter can get people hurt. Doesn’t matter if it is an M4 or something harmless like lockpicks.

        Also, lucky for your buddy it didn’t hit the knee. Gotta look at the bright side, right?

        • FarmerB

          Yeah, with electronics going the way it is – you won’t need any shooting skill to be a sniper (the other skills, sure). And if you are a sniper, you’ll be very quickly dead when the electronics spot you (they already have systems that are extremely dangerous to snipers).

        • Kivaari

          Yup! Harry was lucky. He healed up fast. Never could get rid of the jokesters. One, George had been Harry’s partner, used to really pick on him. One day, I saw George’s wife at a nearby gun store. I asked her how George was doing. She gave a big smile and said George had shot himself. When George got home from the hospital his wife had him call Harry to apologize for picking on him. George told me what happened. He had a magnetic scan to go to. he took off his brand new Taurus m85, padlocked it to the steering real in his brand new Pickup. Covered it with his coat. Had the scan, then returned to his truck. He took it off the steering wheel, than he forgets what happened. He went to undo the hammer located safety device. Then the gun went bang. He looks at his hand, which was bleeding. Then he notices a hole in his left leg pants. Crap, he jumps out of the truck as he didn’t want to bleed all over the ranger. It took three tries to get the proper 911 center. He waited for 15 minutes until a cop showed up, well ahead of the ambulance. The cop went into a question and answer session wanting to know if he was despondent and related BS. Finally George just told him, “I’m a retired cop, I simply shot myself by mistake, and I need a hospital. Well they flew him to a Seattle trauma center. That bullet went in the thigh, traveled under the knee and came to rest high in the calf. It caused permanent wounds to nerves. Stuff happens. But he was in a major metro area and couldn’t even get a cop and ambulance fast. Same with calling for backup. Stuff happens.

          • iksnilol

            Dayum, that doesn’t sound fun. Can’t imagine nerve damage in the legs. I’ve only got a bit in the face due to a squished nerve.

            I really liked how George’s wife made him apologize. That sounds really sweet for some reason. That “not bleeding all over the car” part sounds like something I would do. It is kinda funny though. I mean, you shoot yourself and the first thing you think is “better not bleed all over my car”.

            I am not surprised it was hard to get help in a major metro area, too much people.

          • Kivaari

            It really effected him. The nerve damage was bad. He had a Federal 125 gr. Nyclad hollow point. It came to rest just under the skin on the non-exit area. The bullet performed correctly, with full expansion. Harry, went back to the shootout site and found the bullet that he inflicted on himself. It was a .40 S&W Winchester Black Talon. Except for being walk on, it was perfectly expanded.
            Metro areas have too much service, that’s why his call was hitting three 911 systems. The response was slow.

        • fcarlmayo

          I know this will be hard for some to fathom and get right in the head, there is NO difference between the police and military in this day and age. The miitary is primarily for ‘overseas’ deployment against enemies, the police are deployed ‘at home’ for the same person. Those that elicit the SWAT response are not petty thieves or purse snathers and deserve the attention of a full military operation. And, I really don’t care to hear responses about how this is so wrong, unless you have walked the walk, shut up!

        • billyoblivion

          Can’t use artillery inside a city that you want to keep.

          Tanks the same way.

          Air Support, once (if) you get air superiority, is pretty good, but it still hits the building, not just a couple of the people in it.

          No, there’s still use for shooters, and they need to be better than ever.

          • iksnilol

            Didn’t think about that… maybe we aren’t as useless after all? Nice to not feel like a relic again.

          • billyoblivion

            It’s just the next step in the arms race. We used to not fight in cities because it would blow too much stuff up, so we met each other in lines in the country side. Maneuver warfare made the lines a bad idea, so we dispersed and tactics around that.

            Then air superiority, FLIR and such made that a fools proposition, so now the main battle is in attempting to get Air Superiority. Once that is established the loser has to move back into the cities and hide behind the civilian population.

            Which is when the door kickers in the level IV armor go in and capture or kill them.

      • John

        I can see the argument for appropriate semi-auto rifles with large magazines. I can see the argument for semi-auto submachine guns chambered in the same ammo as department pistols as well.

        But camouflage? No. Military surplus gear? No. The level of expensive crap they have? No.

        A BMW motorcycle with an HK G36? In a state and a country that would have given them Harley-Davidsons and AR-15s for cost, below cost or even free?

        No.

        The amount of cultural and legal deference given to police is more than enough. Too much, actually.

        • Kivaari

          My department got free M16A1s, M14s, and older style K-pot helmets. The departments getting the armored vehicles pay $1 for them. Most places can’t afford armored vehicles, and having them is a great thing for any police department. Several agencies issued MP5 and Uzi SMG, in the “single-fire” versions. Having the SMGs, is great, as long as the training is good. An AR15-type rifle is adequate for police. But since the registration is the same for the single fire variants or select-fire, why not?
          The newer pattern helmets seen on police each cost around $850 each. v. the free old-pattern helmets.
          Using surplus combat clothing in riots or searches makes more sense as well. The clothing of uniform grade can be, very expensive. Over 40 years ago my uniform pants cost $45. Today the same quality is over $100. Shirts were similarly priced. Yes, synthetic blends are cheaper. In a fire where our cops got involved alongside fire fighter, the synthetic blends melt to your skin. We preferred quality wool, as it doesn’t melt. We are prepared to ruin uniforms, and I did while fighting a fire alongside the fire chief. A completely ruined uniform that cost me then $100+ to replace. Had I had the choice I would have been in BDU. High Quality military grade uniforms for the K9 officers looked good. Since they were green for the sheriff’s department tradition they were good for suspect chasing in the brush or jumping fences in neighborhoods. A BMW is well suited for motor officers. High quality is better to have than so-so. Police agency prices are not that much different than Kawasaki and Honda. No one is giving H-Ds to anyone. A thumper is not the best bike. Same with the rifles. Rifles of the same quality cost about the same on department bid. It is civilians that pay more. Find a G36 at your local gun store – I’ve never seen one. I’ve seen plenty of $1500-2500 Colts. Considering the bad press the HK rifles have been getting, I’d prefer a Colt, or twice as costly LMT. I use Colt and Bushmaster. Our M16A1s were H&R and Colt. The M14s are Winchester and H&R. It’s hard to see how well the H&R military guns are compared to the civilian guns.
          I find the comments about camouflage clothing to be simply silly. I know when doing training and special operations like riots, stakeouts and manhunts, no one complains here. It is expected.

        • Kivaari

          Over 30 years ago I wrote an article for a police administrators magazine on “Semi-Subs”. I felt police could be served well with semi auto Uzi’s and HK M94s.
          It appeared 5 years before the FBI issued MP5SF (single-fire). They were machineguns, fitted with the single-fire trigger group. After that, Uzi’s were offered with closed bolt operating systems, that improved longer range accuracy. I still like both systems. The biggest reason to adopt semi-auto carbines, is so your agency takes less crap from the city or county councils and a ignorant public. My agency used the full-auto versions, but we trained well. Like the US Army, the M4 with burst is being replaced with M4A1s with conventional select-fire. Why? Well burst fire limiters are full of extra parts, and are not needed, if the troops are trained. The men I worked with were very capable and competent shooters. An issue with the 9mm Uzi, is after 90m the bullets take a nose dive. Up to that point the loads were flat shooting. Then physics took over.
          Some 9mm loads were pretty fast. NATO issue Fiocchi truncated cone ammo didn’t start to drop until about 110m.

        • Cobranut

          A semi-auto is NOT a submachine gun!

    • Matt Grizz Gregg

      Is anyone else surprised that that woman wasn’t arrested?

  • BigFED

    Some posters are making a statement about “moving to a gun friendly state”. While that is an answer, it is NOT a good answer. The good answer is to stop anti-gun folks from getting elected, being in charge and running/ruining things!!! Here in Texas, years ago even the native (a lot of them Democrats) Texans were pretty much pro-gun, but there lately has been a huge influx of folks leaving Commiefornia and the East coast Commie states and unfortunately they are bringing their anti-gun attitudes with them!!!

  • Tothe

    German bike, German gun… CALIFORNIA! UBER ALLES! CALIFORNIA! UBER ALLES! UBER ALLES, CALIFORNIA! UBER ALLES, CALIFORNIA! [/deadkennedys]

  • Pitt

    Irving,TX PD bikes carry 10.5″ ARs in their saddle bag.
    IPD signs paperwork and officers own them.
    If officer cannot afford it, understand city buys it and then withholds $25-50/paycheck until paid.

    • Kivaari

      They can’t own a machinegun if it was manufactured after May of ’86. Only government agencies can own them. If it was OK to transfer on a Form 4, just about every cop I know, including myself, would have them.

  • Kivaari

    A major rule for riot quashing is DO NOT use fire trucks. Fire men are not riot teams. Fire trucks cost $250,000 dollars, and you risk the rioters from taking control of it and burning it into hot junk. That has been in place for 50 years.
    Did anyone not know who were the cops and who were the hoodies? I doubt a geared up cop was being mistaken for a rioter. Well, in Chicago in 1968, cops in cop uniform went on a rampage under the direction of Richard Daly. Regular uniforms or not, everyone knew who the cops are.

    • Evan

      I completely fail to see why fire trucks, which worked fine in the 60s, and police in riot gear (as opposed to war gear) are not better for counter riot action than MRAPs and AR15s.

      • Kivaari

        In the 60s they were used in the wrong place. If you want water, then do like European cops, Have access to armored water cannon trucks. They cost less than fire trucks. A city doesn’t have enough resources to waste fire trucks. There is a lot of money at risk when you send out fire fighters to run the hoses. I like water cannon trucks, they cost less and really hammer the people hit. During the riots of the last two years, how many people were shot with rifles? Pistols? Shotguns? Shotguns with “bean bags or rubber baton”. With 37 or 40mm bean bag or sponge rounds? If you noticed the cops used rifles and shotguns in mostly defensive ways. Police use chemical weapons (war-type) and grenade launchers to fire flares, teargas, soft rounds and rubber bullets. If you noticed many cops had yellow or orange shotguns. Those were deployed for less lethal rounds. Dedicated to less lethal rounds. My department did not even keep lead slugs or buckshot. We only issued rubber baton loads. Those guns could not even come out of the car until adequate back up had arrived. We always went to such calls with lethal weapons at the ready. You seem to want Utopian communities. Well, since utopia is unobtainable, we have guns with bullets.

        • Evan

          Whatever. I’m done attempting to argue with someone who takes his theory on policing from Feliks Dzherzhinskiy. You are what is wrong with police in America. You, and those like you, give decent cops a bad name. It’s thugs like you who are (partially at least) responsible for this “black lives matter” nonsense.

          • Kivaari

            Yep, I am a thug. I never shot anyone. I was given a statewide award for getting police and community united to save lives. 43 years ago I was awarded the outstanding LEO in the SW region of the state. In all those years I used a baton 3 times. I used verbal skills and sometime physical means to dominate suspects. I could have killed a couple men. Two family members, also cops were in shootings. One other was a state worker that was being shot at when state police killed the shooter. I know nothing about policing and am just a brutal thug. I wonder why I was commended for bringing a corrupt government down and saving so many lives.

  • n0truscotsman

    I understand your point, but until numerous, profound problems regarding legislation (idiotic legislation), economics, and communities are addressed, arguing over ka-bar knives and rifles among police officers is completely a moot point. There are much more pressing concerns.

    The fact is that tactical vests, utilitarian uniforms, and military-style rifles have become commonplace in law enforcement agencies across the United States, Europe, and countless other regions as TTPs have changed profoundly. Cops with AR15s and plate carriers isn’t an American peculiarity.

    A G36 is just an update of Winchester lever-actions and Thompsons in prolific use by law enforcement generations ago.

  • jcitizen

    Looks great to me – wished I had one when I still owned my hog!

  • tarnishedcopper

    I’d think the heat and weather as well as dirt and dust from the road with it mounted out in the open like that would not be a good thing for any firearm you expected to work when you needed it…

  • Mark Are Reynolds Ⓥ

    Just what the police need in a small town like Brea. I mean 100,000 is a village in California. Oh and of course since the median household income is close to $80,000 I am sure that there is a major crime issue in Brea. Why don’t we just issue them SAM missiles and a vehicle to carry them? To me this is insanity. The other thing that gets me is that the vaunted blue line profession can have these without any issues while WE THE PEOPLE have to jump through all kinds of hoops and pay special fees to get them. Oh wait, this is a “new” automatic (manufactured after 1988 I am sure) which means that we can’t even get them after jumping through hoops. I guess I’ll have to change jobs to be of the special few.

  • Ripley

    I think a covered holster somewhere up front would be more functional for a rifle. It seems that the rifle is gathering a lot of road dust in the back.

    I add myself to those that don’t like militarized police, though I don’t know the job situation close to the drug cartels. I like the G36K but maybe it would be nicer to just sling a smaller PDW like MP7/P90 to the back or chest of the driver when needed?

  • dltaylor51

    If the cop drops his bike on the right side he will have a carbine he can shoot around corners with.

  • MontieR

    A bemer and a G36, two of THE most expensive pieces of equipment ANY PD could procure. Between the east coast and the left coast insanity reins supreme. Paid for with FEDERAL grants ie TAXES. Thats right YOUR tax money.

    • Tothe

      Take it back.

  • M4 Carbine

    So THAT’S what they mean by ‘guns on the street’..