POTD: SIG Sauer's MCX-SPEAR-LT in Multicam

@John Washington II Shhhh, the MCX is supposed to be the greatest weapon platform ever made. All of the people that paid several thousand dollars to be a guinea pig for another SIG product said so.

@John Washington II I have not been able to replicate them with a 9" .300BLK SBR. I installed the SPEAR-LT version of the Arisaka ZRC after trying it anyways, just to be sure.

@John Washington II I think when people finally learned to check their barrel AND hand guard retention screws and torque them to spec, people stopped talking about it. Did some make it out of the factory with out of spec barrel and/or hand guard screw torque? I think so. Did some people remove the hand guard to mount accessories and then not torque it correctly? Also yes. I can barely find anything as of lately on this "issue". It wasn't the barrel shifting, every example I saw was the hand guard shifting.

@ShootCommEverywhere My 11.5" 5.56 Spear-LT doesn't have the issue and I purchased it new almost a year ago, as soon as I removed the hand guard screws and did the test everyone was doing on YouTube, it shifted left and right. Put screws back in to spec and no movement. Yet this happens and the internet blows up. A lot of haters on Sig lately due to their popularity and LE/MIL contracts.

@W B Yet SOCOM has been using MCXs since at least 2017, and the LT was selected last year to replace or supplement the HK416s used by SOCOM.

@John Washington II There is no issue, just make sure that the screws are torqued to specs.

@W B It's kind of is. Dozens of units around the world who can buy anything they want buy MCX. That should tell you something.

@TheGreatDeception Not every shooter in SOCOM carries a MCX, just like most didn’t carry a 416.

@Vet And lots, even American SOF units, don’t choose the MCX.

@Andrew Never claimed everyone in SOCOM used an MCX. What carbine within SOCOM is used more than the HK416 ?

@Vet Considering the MCX was released not even a decade ago, I was really surprised to see the amount of first-world SF units flocking to it, especially SOCOM and SAS and quite a few European police and SF units. I have a Spear-LT, it's really an outstanding, reliable rifle.

@W B Call SOCOM and then the SAS, tell them they picked the wrong rifle. I would love to hear what they tell you.

@TheGreatDeception M4.

@Andrew Probably in 1996....

@TheGreatDeception You need to get with the times...

M4A1 URG-I

@Uniform223 You are all over the place tonight, the URG-I was mainly limited to Rangers and Green Berets improvements to existing M4s. It's basically an upper receiver upgrade for the hordes of M4s in inventory. What are the top tier SOCOM units running? CAG (Delta) has been running HK416s for almost 20 years now with SIG MCX being seen as early as 2017 and now the Spear-LTs coming in in some significant numbers. SEALs run HK416s with some Noveskes sprinkled in. Announced in 2022, all USMC combat arms are moving to the HK416 (M27). You will find a sprinkle of a Noveske or a Geiselle here and there though.....

And with your logic with the URG-I program, which had very limited use within SOCOM, lookup the SURG (Sig MCX) upper receiver program, and you will see who that is going to..... JSOC and non-JSOC units.

See the pattern ?

@TheGreatDeception There are certainly haters of any brand that becomes popular, but the main hate Sig faces is due to their lack of investment in function testing and quality control.

The company markets its products as professional defense tools, yet most of their recent products have required safety or function based recalls. Sig has dealt with these recalls by investing in public relations to protect their image rather than saying “mea culpa, we’re investing heavily into R&D and QC to make sure none of our new products will see the light of day before they are perfect”

The concept of their products are neat, but it’s hard to trust them anymore.

@TheGreatDeception This is why companies love to hint about their product being in use in SOF. If you don’t have time in the Compound, you don’t know any better to debunk it.

The vast majority of people in USSOCOM are going on target with a DI gun.

@Andrew Thanks for your opinion as always, and always welcome.

@HemingwaysBeard I understand where you are coming from but at the same time Sig is one of the few pushing boundaries with awesome products from the MCX to the P365, not to mention they are pumping out a ton of guns with P320s and P365 are the best selling semi-auto pistols at this moment. I know of no company that has not had teething problems with new models and everyone from Walther, Glock, S&W, Ruger, FN, Taurus, Beretta and others all had at one point a recall/upgrade to address a model of theirs firing unintentionally. I think that today what triggers people the most is that the 2017 P320 upgrade program was not a "recall" but an "upgrade." But either way the service is free and covers the 1st owner to the 20th owner. Also, as an FFL that goes through a lot of firearms, hands down the incomings NIB guns we see the most QC related issues with is hands down with S&W pistols and rifles (excluding revolvers). Probably the most flawless brand in terms of QC is H&K. Glocks are good but we have seen issues with those too, with Sigs every now and then we have to RMA something but it is rarely a firearm, it may be a Romeo red dot or a slide.

@TheGreatDeception I'm sure it is fine now but I was referring to the myriad of people who had problems when it first came out (Like almost all Sig products anymore.). Which is why my original comment referred to them as guinea pigs.

Also I would love to contact SOCOM and the SAS. I would be happy to let them know that any rifle other than the G36K is wrong because I think the G36K is cool and that is all that matters.

@TheGreatDeception Some clarifications...

Yes, the M4A1 URGI was a initiative headed by USASOC. Yet because USASOC is part of the greater USSOCOM organization, ANY unit/component within USSOCOM can choose to use the M4A1 URGI. Word around the proverbial water cooler (not just looking at publicly available pictures on the interwebs) with people with some insight is that many units within SOCOM are gravitating towards the M4A1 URGI. Also the 416 has since been quietly defunded by SOCOM. What ever 416s and parts available in existing inventory is all they are going to get. Any improvements or new rifles are up to individual units and their own funds.

The 416 was an immediate answer to problems that arose in early M4 CQBR. Mainly the shorter 10.5in barrel coupled with a suppressor. The external short stroke piston of the 416 is more forgiving and reliable at the time. Cranes improved Mk.18 has since solved all those early issues.

Former SFOD-D member and well known instructor. Note what he says about unit members having an option...
https://youtu.be/2p_aLOuoh7...

USMC adoption of the M27 was a backdoor way to get a new rifle and everyone saw it. At first was to replace the 249 at the fire team level. Then they made it into the DMR. Then they finally gave up the charade and made it standard to replace the ubiquitous M16 for their infantry units. The one rifle to rule them all! It replaced the SAW, even though it couldn't provide anywhere near the sustained volume of fire. It became their DMR, but it doesn't offer the engagement range of the M110 or accuracy at distance like the Mk12. It replaces the M16A4 yet it costs more, weighs a little more, and doesn't do anything significantly better.

@TheGreatDeception URGI has more use in SOCOM than MCX. And not all Marine Combat Arms are switching to 416s. MARSOC (which is part of SOCOM) still uses DI guns exclusively as of 2022, last I deployed with them, and don’t seem to want to switch. Almost all of USASOC uses DI. Most of JSOC does. Almost all of AFSOC does.

SEALs aren’t “running 416s with some Noveskes sprinkled in”. The 416s are hand-me-downs for enablers and not-DEVGRU dudes. The 416 has run its course in being the latest and greatest
there, and lives on as a boat anchor carried by those not “elite” enough for the DI guns and complained about.

When CAG adopted the 416, there was no good alternative. Also, the NCOIC of the program that selected that weapon retired and started working at HK immediately after the program’s conclusion.

When you look at weapons and equipment for SFOD-D and DEVGRU, consider that they might simply be testing something different that might help the conventional or white-SOF guys later.