This photo was posted on Facebook by Teufelshund Tactical.

Here is a glaring reminder why to buy a H&K. This is all that is left of a Smith and Wesson M&P after an ammo related malfunction. If there is one thing that H&K does best, it is design outstanding barrels from the best quality steel. Wonder what S&W uses?

 

I am not sure why the author thinks an H&K would have survived this better than an M&P. H&K are still polymer framed handguns and are just as prone to catastrophic failure as any other pistol.

From the photo they posted you can see a compensator at the end of the barrel. This leads me to conclude that it is an aftermarket threaded barrel. The amount of damage is rather amazing. The top half of the slide and barrel are just gone.

Here are some photos people posted in comment about H&Ks being better.

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  • Sam

    Is there supposed to be a picture of an M&P in this article? Am I missing something? All I see is two pictures of blown-up H&Ks.

  • Nathan Means

    I would blame that comp before the gun. Probably had someone put a 9mm comp on a 40 and go “well it might work”.

    • Laserbait

      .40 S&W and 9mm use different threads on the threaded barrel. Would take a lot of effort to get a 9mm on a 40S&W barrel by accident.

      • Flounder

        They are supposed to… But with the amount of variation in the market you can definately get any thread you want from a factory which makes a mix up a lot more likely.
        For example, I have a 300 win mag that has threading for 1/2×28. Which is classically only for 556 flash hiders and cans and most 30 cal accessories will not fit it, and it will destroy either itself or any 5.56 calibers specific stuff. I just have to be careful and not mix anything up. It’s something of a concern if I take anyone out shooting.

        • Sunshine_Shooter

          Did you buy the 300 with the 1/2×28 threading, or did you get it threaded that way? If you got it done that way, why?

      • Nathan Means

        You underestimate the power of fools with tools.

        On a side note it seems the comp causing this has been debunked by many who have spent more time “detectiving” than I did.

    • iksnilol

      If the comp caused an issue I doubt it’d be looking as good as it does. I really doubt the comp is more sturdy than the entire barrel.

  • Red Eye Robot

    I’d bet there was an obstruction in the barrel. Probably shooting reloads and one missed a powder charge. Fired with just a primer.

  • john huscio

    Teufelshund is an HK-centric training center , not a huge surprise

    • Twilight sparkle

      Even the name sounds like it was imported from Germany

      • I resemble that remark.

      • A.WChuck

        I believe it means “Devil Dog” or similar.

    • iksnilol

      Teufelshund means Devil Dog in German.

  • Nashvone

    I’ve fired quite a large number of different makes of firearms and I’ve never found one to have an “OH MY GOD I MUST OWN THIS ALONE” quality. I’ll never understand the fanboy mentality.

    • Swarf

      Well!

      You must not have shot a Mosin Nagant, comrade.

      • Nashvone
      • Seth Hill

        Mosin Nagant, the only true multitool. It’s a sniper, it’s a flame thower, it’s a club, etc.

        • Nick

          And according to a guy on Facebook it’s his favorite survival rifle because he can use one to club fish!

      • Grindstone50k

        Hail, almighty Garbage Rod!

      • McThag

        Plus you can grow tomatoes with them!

    • Guns are expensive, and many people refuse to acknowledge that they spent more money on less gun than they should have, so they aggressively defend their favorite brands as an attempt to reassure themselves that they didn’t make a bad decision.

      • rjackparis

        their ego is attached to their purchase, they can’t let it go

        it seems to be a major thing with hk fanboys.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Guessing you’ve never shot a Desert Eagle…. 😉

      • HSR47

        I’ve shot one. It wasn’t that impressive, and it didn’t fit my hands at all. Lots of recoil, not a lot of mag capacity, and entry cost of over $1,400 all mean that it’s not something I’d buy.

        It was certainly worth shooting at least once though, and I don’t think I’d say no to shooting one again if someone else was volunteering their gun and ammo at no cost to me.

      • Nashvone

        Actually, I have. I bought a S&W 500 instead.

    • John

      Because said quality doesn’t really exist. Some guns are better than others, sure, but at a certain point the only real difference is a name and the pricetag. Yeah, HK’s look cool, but they aren’t $1000+ cool. HK fanboys are almost as obnoxiously annoying as the 1911-only crowd.

  • Havok

    I’m guessing it was already taken down. Just tried to find it and didn’t have any luck.

  • Tom J

    I have a serious question. How many of these catastrophic failures have occurred in guns with stock barrels, factory ammo, and nothing crazy hanging off the barrel? It seems to me that nearly everyone of these failures is either bad ammo, an old or aftermarket barrel, or the user using the gun for something is wasn’t designed to handle. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    It seems to me that every manufacturer has a small percentage of issues. I just don’t see how buying a modern firearm from any of the major companies make you any safer from malfunctions. Again, please enlighten me if I’m wrong. I suspect that because Glock is immensely popular that you may see Glock failures, but I’m pretty confident that’s still a small fraction of the pistols that are out in the wild. Ultimately I’d like to see failure rates as a percentage. If you can prove that M&P’s fail at a higher rate than other guns than that’ll be a story.

    • Flounder

      I think your serious question is more rhetorical but i’ll still answer it. People like their accessories, and sometimes they screw up adding the accessories and that screw up results in breakages. Sometimes your crap just falls off and gets dirty, other times your gun blows up.

      As for ammo causing issues, all ammo manufacturers set up their whole process to avoid crap like this, which costs them all kinds of money. A dude in his basement trying to crank out 1000 rounds after work is probably more error prone. Then there are the reloaders trying to get more out of their cartridge and intentionally pushing the boundary, which will cause breakages just from the increased stresses. Or their crap will explode cause they went right to the boundary and in one cartridge they put just one too many gunpowder pellets in.

      I know in the past HK and SIG have used superior steels to their rivals, one prominent example was that during the army trials for a new handgun all canidates failed having a bullet stuck in the barrel and being shot except for the SIG. Now that was decades ago, so all it proves is at random times some pistols from some manufactures will have better barrels than the competition.

      • Porty1119

        Folks who try to reload quickly scare me. It needs to be a methodical activity- slow but safe beats fast and KABOOM by a mile. Max charge means max charge- you exceed it at your own risk. I know guys who develop wildcat cartridges who intentionally push things, but make sure that the end result is safe.

    • Jim Slade

      ^ THIS.
      First thing I thought after seeing the picture with the ported barrel.

    • P161911

      Probably much less than 5%. It still happens, factory ammo isn’t perfect, they can let squib loads, etc get out, just not very often. There can be unseen defects in factory barrels, just not very often. It is usually somebody either pushing the envelope in one way or another and going with the cheapest parts some how.

  • James

    I could never understand how some peeps make major power factor in 9mm. Seeing the comp mounted on this example, I wonder if this is a failed attempt.

    • HSR47

      Running major PF in a 9mm is something that some guns can handle reasonably safely, and other guns can’t. A 1911 9mm is generally one that can. A lot of polymer-framed wonder nines aren’t up to the task though.

  • Will

    I’d look VERY CLOSELY at the ammo. Reloads? Who did the reloading?
    I’ve seen this happen to M&Ps, HKs, Glocks, revolvers, rifles etc, etc.
    Everything except a .22 LR.

    • Gary Kirk

      Have seen that..

  • S&W buys its metals from Carpenter Technology, a 125+ year old specialty metals maker in Pennsylvania. Carpenter No. 158 alloy is the milspec metal to be used in the M4 bolt carrier group. Carpenter also makes Pyromet 718, which is what all Boeing landing gear is made from – including the gear on the F/A18. Carpenter’s entire business is making metals that others can’t. It makes metals with exceptional properties and its metals are used in many industries and applications where only the best will do and price isn’t the purchase determining factor. You’d be surprised to know just how many gunmakers are using Carpenter metals in their products

    So it would seem that the biased HK fanboi author really doesn’t know much about the metals that are used to make guns but automatically assumes that HK is superior in everyway.

    There, I hope that sheds a bit of light on what S&W uses.

    • Gary Kirk

      H&K uses better metal.. Even though they don’t use metal very often.. And their polymers could apparently use some work..

      • Mattblum

        No. They don’t. They claim to, but they don’t. They use metal that is directly comparable to the metal that others use. They do however advertise it with great skill.

        • Gary Kirk

          Sorry, meant for the sarcasm to come across about the metal, forgot to add the ” marks.. My bad..

          • Mattblum

            I apolgize for being a cranky old fart. I’ve just seen sooooooo many H&K fanboi posts. My bad.

          • Gary Kirk

            Definitely not an H&K tactitard.. Just wanted to clear my point..

        • Gary Kirk
        • klaus.ramelow

          No Alloy – “cooked” by different companies – ist directly comparable to others.
          Nevertheless it is not only the alloy that makes the gun, more it is the process of manufacturing the gun.

        • iksnilol

          KRUPP STAHL, UNTERMENSCH!

    • klaus.ramelow

      “Carpenter Technology” – a carpenters idea ?

      • The company was started in the 1800s by James Carpenter.

        • iksnilol

          Oh the irony, a Carpenter which makes metal.

          • DW

            “Irony”

    • Phillip Cooper

      How is this information not a trade secret?

      • Which information? Carpenter publishes the technical datasheets for its products. The M4 milspec is published by the gov’t (BTW most “milspec ARs are not milspec at all). Boeing publishes what materials it uses to mill and produce aircraft component. Now, the exact process that Carpenter uses/developed to make the metals, that’s where there’s secrets. If you search for Aeromet 100, you’ll find the technical datasheet from Carpenter as well as the datasheets for dozens of other products.

        But, this help highlight how little these fanboi forums know about metals, where they come from, how they’re made, and how many gun makers all use the same source for metals. To most people, steel is steel and aluminum is aluminum.

        • 1911a145acp

          Since the Gov’t “MilSpec” requirements Include a full auto trigger group and Full auto BCG- MOST ARs are not truly MilSpec but do include MilSpec parts

          • Tom Currie

            Any Full MilSpec “AR” would actually be either an M4 or an M16, right down to the furniture, finish, and markings. Manufacturers toss around the term “MilSpec” like it means whatever they want it to mean. It is rare that any firearms manufacturer claiming to be “MilSpec” can even tell you what specific spec they claim to meet.

        • Grindstone50k

          Being former “MilSpec”, all I hear is “lowest acceptable quality”.

        • Phillip Cooper

          Thanks for the insight!

  • Sean

    No, the post should read: “This is why you buy a Ruger revolver.” 🙂

  • imtoomuch

    It’s extremely irresponsible to post these photos of blown up guns without the back story. You are scaring idiots into thing M&Ps are bad guns. This is obviously not true and in situations like this the ammo or aftermarket parts are the cause more often than not.

    • Nicholas C

      I would if I could. Sadly I was unable to find out the origins. I never made assertions that the M&P is bad. I did point out the use of an aftermarket barrel and in most cases ammo is the culprit.

      • Baggy270

        You guys are posting sensationalist news without the background story. Better to not post it at all if you don’t have all the information. Do some research maybe? This is just as bad as the national news broadcasters who say another mass shooting which then turns out later to be a stabbing.

  • Ken

    Looks like they may have taken the pic and comments down. Probably got more pics of exploded HK’s than they could stand. 🙂

  • Brocus

    the referenced post was about the MP barrel being shredded. the HK photos show guns with barrels intact. are you guys even trying?

  • Jeff Smith

    The original poster mentioned the barrel quality of HK. I’ve read that there is some merit to the comment. I’ve read about the conversion of a .40 S&W USP to 10mm that required an aftermarket barrel due to the gunsmith’s inability to ream the chamber of the factory .40 S&W barrel.

    Can anyone confirm this? Does H&K simply use a higher quality steel than other manufacturers?

    • FightFireJay

      Harder does not equal stronger. In fact, through hardened steels typically have the issue of being more britle.

      Surface hardening like Nitride/Melonite do make machining more dificult, but nothing that a carbide bit cant handle.

    • AD

      Could you be referring to the video posted by LifesizePotato on his youtube channel, where he talks about an HK he converted to 10mm?

      • Jeff Smith

        That could be the one. I also remember reading his (possibly) post on an HK forum about it.

  • DW

    Yeah, HK’s barrel would survive. Your hand tho…

  • Havoc

    Given the comp, was this a case of major caliber 9mm loads in competition?

  • Gary Kirk

    “Here are some photos posted in comment about H&K being better”

    A pistol grenaded in hand, is still a hand grenade..

    • Uniform223

      But its H&K… all their weapon components are forged by ancient gods of old and are assembled in a magical factory by mythical creatures…

  • Rap Scallion

    One plastic gun blows up and S&W suddenly has a poor quality metal issue?????? I as some other has said that the aftermarket brake or whatever, has a lot to do with the problem……….Or did several thousand others with the substandard metal blow too????????

    Sounds like the carp on Huff and Puff News!

    • Drew Coleman

      I don’t think the plastic frame has any bearing on this particular failure.

  • Mattblum

    H&K are perfectly nice horribly overpriced guns. Only a fan boy would think this means anything at all.

    • Anomanom

      Not really any -more- overpriced than a lot of manufacturer’s 1911s.

    • iksnilol

      Cost almost just as much as a Glock… I’d sooner call the Glock overpriced than the HK.

      Though I am in Norway, so I digress.

  • El Duderino

    Yeah, well, at least at S&W they load their magazines correctly…

  • knut-halvard nordskog

    Great piece of writing here. No facts. And. Some pictures of broken guns. Again With no references. This is why this website is going down hill.

  • DanGoodShot

    Everyone’s going on makin a big deal about the barrel. Has anyone else noticed it also blew the whole top off the damn slide! Holy crap. squib followed by a +p+? You can see the burn marks halfway down the barrel which is where I would assume the offending squib round was sitting when in took one from a heck of a hot round.

  • Oldtrader3

    Having been a Mechanical Engineer and Machine Designer for 40 years, I will state categorically that Carpenter makes great quality steel! Besides the OP said it was an ammo related failure which makes a lot more sense?

  • Elvis

    Fanboys gonna fanboy.

  • Uniform223

    So far I’ve seen a bunch of H&K related comments…
    Where are the Glock and 1911 comments?

  • DGR

    How can you get that kind of malfunction, and still have that much gun left? The force required to rip the top half of a barrel completely off, as well as the slide is crazy. Something is not right here, either the slide was heavily milled out/ported or this failure was caused using C4 instead of powder. Would love to see the story of what happened here and what ammo/gun mods were in use. I just don’t see how you have enough force to rip off the top half of the barrel and slide, and not just blow the front of the slide completely off.

  • John

    I’m pretty sure the same issue that caused the failure of the M&P would have also blown an HK. Physics still apply to Germany’s way overpriced plastic fantastics, too.

    • iksnilol

      How expensive are HKs in the US? In Norway they are directly comparable to Glocks in pricing.

      • Drew Coleman

        HK’s hover between 800-1000 USD depending on model (this is new pricing) while Glocks are usually around 550-650 USD depending on model.

        • iksnilol

          Man, both are overpriced in the US.

          • John

            That’s the magical tariffs and regulations being passed on to the buyer.

        • Baggy270

          Glocks are just over $1000 in Canada and HK’s $1500 thanks to our Monopoly money….

      • John

        Anywhere from $900 to $1,500 the last time I checked. I can get a Glock for about $450-$520.

  • 22winmag

    Fake news?

  • ozzallos .

    Sample Size = Insufficient.
    It’s not as if M&P has a rep for exploding guns.

  • uisconfruzed

    I’m no S&W fan, but this is insufficient info.
    What caliber, barrel, ammo, and why?
    Was the slide or barrel modified.

    • Drew Coleman

      Exactly. I carry an M&P, but I have zero fear of this happening with the factory ammo that I carry.

  • Ryan L

    My money is on a squib load then another trigger pull.

    All to easy to happen if your rapid fire/double tapping.

    FWIW I had a squib from a major manufacturer last year so it’s not all reloader and re-manufacturers with problems.

    Apparently they bumped the push/pull tests specs on their crimping after evaluating the box I sent back.

  • Rodford Smith

    Maybe he was thinking of the H&K P7. 🙂

  • 1911a145acp

    Does not look like a black Melonite S&W barrel- looks silvery and stainless aftermarket barrel

  • Phillip Cooper

    I’d say the guy should thank his lucky stars the section that decided to depart was at the top, not the bottom.

    I’d also have need of a new pair of shorts, either way.

  • c4v3man

    I have an affinity for HK, however this is clearly BS, and I’d wager identical rounds/situations in both a VP9 and a M&P9 would both cause catastrophic failures, just possibly in different directions, etc. Obviously when you start talking steel vs polymer such as a M&P vs a HK PSP/P7, then that’s an entirely different situation, although I’d wager there are circumstances where the forces could be better dispersed with a polymer frame than a steel frame.

  • Ken

    The compensator looks very similar to the early .460 Rowland compensators.

  • Bruce Lance

    Looks like a ‘squib’
    If you dont know what a squib is and how to clear it you shouldnt have a pistol in your hands!

  • Nathan Means

    So in summery you mean to say
    “play stupid games win stupid prizes”?

    • raz-0

      Yes, but there are so many stupid games, I was narrowing it a bit.

  • Jon

    i love glocks and m&ps but hk does use superior metal for their guns hands down. look up life size potatoes video about his 10mm usp. he tried to get the hk factory 40 barrel reemed and the tools at a couple gunsmiths he took it to couldnt cut the metal. also look at todd greenes test of the hk p30. it went 20000+ rds more than glock or m&p. look the usp up on wikepedia and the testing it went through before it was released. they lodged a bullet in the barrel and shot it out and still maintained accuracy. that would blow up most other guns. like i said i love m&ps but to say the quality is the same as hk is bull.

  • BobValdez

    Frankly, if the frame is NOT steel or quality alloy, it can stay in the toy box with the rest of the Lego.