MSBS Greenlit To Adoption Pending Polish State Trials, Ahead of “Titan” Program

polsky_vojak_budoucnosti_titan_4

The Polish government has greenlit the adoption of the MSBS rifle platform, pending state tests of the weapon, ahead and independent of the larger scope rearmament program “Titan” (sometimes also rendered “Titanium”). The reason for this is the much higher level of development of the MSBS system versus other components of the Titan program, however before MSBS is adopted it will still have to pass all the standards set by the Titan program. From Altair.com.pl (pardon the poor machine translation):

Polish Army plans to purchase 5.56 mm rifles basic MSBS-5.56, when only pass qualification tests. Will be part of the program Titanium or independently of it.

Land Forces are interested in how the fastest purchasing a new system of small arms.  So far, 10 rifles basic MSBS 5.56-party implementation have been bought by the Inspectorate of Armament attempts to Titan, and a dozen more are tested by one of the uniformed services / Photo: Bartosz Szymonik

Land Forces are interested in how the fastest purchasing a new system of small arms. So far, 10 rifles basic MSBS 5.56-party implementation have been bought by the Inspectorate of Armament attempts to Titan, and a dozen more are tested by one of the uniformed services / Photo: Bartosz Szymonik

As learned RAPORT-wto , Land Forces are interested in the introduction of new weapons to arm an individual. This can occur not even in the current year (tests take several months). The stake purchase rifles basic MSBS-5.56 in the classical system (MSBS-5,56K) to the ammunition 5.56 mm x 45 grenade launchers mounted cartridge 40 mm x 46SR-knives and bayonets. All these elements are developed as part of the subsystem weapons advanced individual combat system Titanium. Sam carbine has already passed the certification test, according to the assumptions Weapon Factory.

We realize that MSBS-5.56 is now almost ready project, and on the introduction of a full, combat system Titanium will have to wait a few more years , said REPORT-wto representative of the Army. That is why we are ready for the purchase of new rifles, the only weapon pass required by the Armed Forces qualification tests (state) .

The program Titanium is currently delayed by nine months in relation to its schedule ( Titanium negotiated , 2014-06-27). Much of the tactical and technical assumptions, is at the final stage of approval. However, after the completion of this stage and passing qualification tests, nothing stands in the way to enter MSBS-5.56 faster than the other elements of the Polish soldier of the future .However, the weapon will still have to pass all the tests in the framework of Titan.

Not considered in detail the formal procedures that could allow an earlier purchase of weapons , added the interviewee REPORT-wto .We, however, there are mechanisms of conduct that allow purchase rifles MSBS-5.56 in the framework of already signed agreements for the development of the Titan or whatever her . Later may be to adjust the accessories mounted on the rifle into the combat system, but it does not change the structure itself ( Debut collimator for Titan , 2015-09-03; Award for Rubin , 2015-05-26; Sapphire – a small big news PCO , 2013: 09-02).

The new system of small arms has been developed by the Military Technical Academy (WAT) and Radom Weapon Factory Archer and financed from the budget of these institutions, as well as the funds until the three ministries of science and higher education, the economy and national defense. Thus, in accordance with the European Union, do not have to announce a formal tender for the weapon. After the adoption of rifles to arm the Polish Army, I immediately want to start production samopowtarzalnych variety of weapons on the civilian market ( SHOT Show 2016, Archer at the show in the USA , 2016-01-19).

Currently, out of ten MSBS 5.56-party implementation bought by the Inspectorate of Armament test Titan ( first-MSBS 5.56 for MON , 2015-09-05), several rifles is further tested by one of the uniformed services. The weapon is trying, among others, in Warsaw and Gdansk. As learned RAPORT-wto , the potential user is very interested in new development to the cartridge 5.56 mm x 45 NATO, which is to replace the previously used models. He would like, however, instead of the basic rifle with a 406-mm barrel, enter the abbreviated variant with a barrel length of 250-280 mm.

Modular Development System Arms 5.56 mm (5.56-MSBS) began in December 2007 with the cooperation of WAT and Archer . The main objective pursued designers was to develop a system of shooting with one common chamber castle, which would be included in other modules-teams. This allows you to create a family of automatic rifles in the classical system and the butt of different lengths and different barrels tactical use.

In December 2009, we presented four demonstrators of the technology , which is the basic shooting rifles, and in August 2012 the four models of weapons in the classical system. A year later, they completed 12-of prototypes MSBS 5.56. By the end of 2015 formed parts and assemblies allowing the submission of a hundred rifles party implementation. Archer is also working on a system-based MSBS-5.56 kinds of weapon to another ammunition ( Prototypes guns MSBS-7.62 at MSPO , 2016-01-09).

As mentioned in the article, Fabryka Broni will attend to meeting the needs of the Polish Army first, before importation of the MSBS can begin to the United States (and, presumably, elsewhere). However, with the MSBS rifle fast-tracked to adoption, it seems like fewer and fewer obstacles stand in the way of the Polish rifles being sold on the US market. Representatives from Fabryka Broni explained that MSBS had not been approved by the BATFE, but that talks between them were still ongoing, and the company will continue to seek approval.

On the military side, the Polish Army appears to be paying attention to recent developments in small arms and ammunition, as they are considering improved 5.56mm loads, as well as a very short-barreled variant with a 10-11″ barrel.


Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.


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  • Wosiu

    Awaiting article about differencies between MSBS and ACR.

    • It’s in my drafts folder waitingto be written, hahah.

      • KestrelBike

        Not being snarky, but you said before the acr has no redeeming qualities, does the MSBS? If so, curious to know what they changed and how/if they saved weight. I wonder if the piston/bolt-carrier could be substantially lightened.

        • hikerguy

          I think the MSBS is what Magpul wanted the ACR to become or be (That is until Remington and Bushmaster got a hold of it). Anyway, I think that Polish rifle will be a good one.

          • I dunno, a lot of people say that, but…

            The MSBS was clearly designed around a similar philosophy with similar features to the ACR. Previously, I called it a “derivative” of the Masada, and some folks got mad at me for doing that. I think they’re not entirely wrong to do so. Saying the MSBS is a “derivative” is misleading, as it implies something like an AK —> Galil type relationship, but that’s not really what’s going on.

            Unfortunately, I’ve been something of a purveyor of bad information on this subject, which I’ll get into in the post. A combination of very similar features and a language barrier resulted in me creating a narrative that hasn’t really held up under further scrutiny. That’s why I intend to correct this by focusing on the differences between the two guns in the upcoming post. I got access to both the MSBS and ACR during SHOT, and have pictures illustrating what I’m talking about, so that should be helpful.

            Having said that, they are VERY similar guns, and I will change my tune to say that they are “spiritual brothers” designed around similar requirements and with similar philosophies, with similar results. However, the MSBS in my opinion has the potential to be a better gun, for sure. The ACR has gone down a path that resulted in it being quite fat and having some substantial flaws, and fixing those things would require a total redesign.

          • hikerguy

            I agree with you totally. I was not implying it was a copy. My message was to say that the MSBS has succeeded in producing an adaptable weapon system that the ACR, as envisioned by Magpul, had not . They are similar, for sure, and while some styling points may have been borrowed, there are differences as well. In the end, I believe it will perform well, and not all of its future users will speak Polish.

        • I don’t really think the ACR has any redeeming qualities versus an AR-15.

          The MSBS has some definite advantages vs. the ACR, but my enthusiasm more reflects an old, capable manufacturer creating indigenous designs that are competitive and modern – and their enthusiasm for the US market – than the MSBS being an AR-killer.

          • Kivaari

            An opinion here. I think the current AR15 based rifles are some of the finest weapons made. With 60 years of development and adjustments they just seem to work for the intended purpose. I love the European rifles, that at one time I owned almost all of them. In the end, there were rifles that competed close to the ARs, but most lacked features found on our home built rifles.

          • I agree, the AR-15 is a fantastic rifle that I’d choose as best in the world if you put a gun to my head and made me.

            However, I think the Poles will have a fantastic weapon too, if MSBS gets perfected and adopted.

    • SP mclaughlin

      One is made by Remington.
      One is not.
      Enough said.

      • iksnilol

        So… one of them works?

      • Kivaari

        I’d be fearful of a Remington built anything. Well in the last 20 years anyway.

    • Jay

      One is a military service rifle and the other one is a boutique wannabe.

  • Don Ward

    Fabryka Broni?

    I didn’t know that Poland had such a large My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic consumer base…

    No, it’s funny because Broni sounds like…

    *The TFB No Pun enforcers drag Don off the stage*

    • PK

      Well, now I pretty much have to buy one of these rifles and paint it up, apply a stencil with one of the logos/marks from the show, and gift it to a kid. Kids love that sort of thing, and a 5.56x45mm is a great step up from .22lr!

      • Evan

        Could someone help me out here – I’ve heard reference to this “brony” nonsense before, but I don’t get it. Why on earth are these grown men obsessed with a glorified toy commercial/TV show aimed at little girls? Is it facetious or is this something that they’re actually into? Is it a pederast thing? Or is it just yet another symptom of societal collapse? I really fail to see what a grown man could find in such nonsense, it seems creepy and inappropriate at worst and just pathetic at best.

        • PK

          Some joke, some are serious, it’s just something to enjoy. Personally, I enjoy Hello Kitty and collect merchandise. It’s just a hobby and I have fun, why find it creepy/inappropriate/pathetic if it does you no harm?

          • Rock or Something

            I could be wrong, but I’m guessing the specific term Broni was referring to Adult men who were obsessed with the Pony toys to the point of dressing up as their favorite characters and attending conferences and trade shows in it. That goes beyond just collecting the merchandise. But whatever, who am I to judge.

        • koko

          Ponies are so cute and adorable! I would eat them alive, if I could!

          La viande du cheval, mmmmm….. Friendship is Magic!

          • iksnilol

            I ate a pony once… I am not even joking, sucker was delicious.

          • HenryV

            Better than reindeer?

          • iksnilol

            I dunno. It’s the same level I guess 😛

            It was awesome, not much fat on it. And it was very tender :-3

          • HenryV

            I couldn’t I don’t think. Some animals because they are apart of man’s story shouldn’t be seen as food. Dogs, horses……….

          • iksnilol

            Eh, It’s just you being emotional (no offense intended). In the middle ages kings would slaughter a horse for a feast to show how rich they were.

            Still, in the end it’s better to get some use of it. Better to eat the horse than let it die. I grew up practically.

            Dogs I don’t eat simply because they’re predators. Too risky. Same applies to wolves and whatnot.

          • HenryV

            ………….they’re predators………..

            You don’t eat women then either? 🙂

          • iksnilol

            Only figuratively 😉

          • HenryV

            Oh. I have just realised what I said. Whoops.

        • Kivaari

          That’s like one of the Chinese missiles tested a few years back. It was called the Long Dong. American’s had to let them known how that term is used here.

        • llann

          Probably has something to do with women liking to ride ponies.

    • Noir

      Would you believe its cognate with Czech “Zbrojovka”?

      • odrzut

        In Polish:
        zbroja = armour
        broń = weapon
        zbrojownia = armory (a place to keep armours/weapons)
        uzbrojony = armed (as in “armed man”)
        fabryka broni = factory of weapons

        So I think Czech “zbrojovka” is cognate with Polish “zbrojownia”

        • Tritro29

          Sounds almost like Slavic languages are related somehow…strange isn’t it? BTW that was sarcasm.

          • Kivaari

            Finn has roots in Turkish.

          • Evan

            Finnish is not Slavic. Nor is Magyar (Hungarian). Those two are related somehow, but neither are Indo-European; they’re not related to any other languages in Europe. I think Estonian (or possibly Lithuanian or Latvian) might be in the same family as well, but I’m not 100% on that.

          • Kivaari

            Considering how the various armies trampled all of the continent for thousands of years, it just makes sense.

          • MeaCulpa

            Google Finno-Ugric Language, they are somewhat related to the Turkish languages.

          • Tritro29

            Where do you see Finnish being empoyed in Zbrovojka?

          • Kivaari

            You missed that folks were discussing language origins regarding the subject at hand. I never learned to speak it , Grand dad was an Imperial Russian Soldier. I find the era interesting, ad this new stuff from Poland and the Czech Republic to be very interesting. I formerly collected arms from the region.

          • Tritro29

            I missed nothing. The talk was that a Polish word had an almost litteral sibling in Czech. Which is normal, they’re both Slavic. There was no “language” origin talk. And there’s no Finnish origin in Zbroj…Polish, like Russian, like Czech have a similar base which allows me to often get most of what’s being said even in remote languages as Serbo-Croatian.

        • pbla4024

          Zbrojovka in Czech means weapon manufacturer.

    • Reef Blastbody

      *Tries the fish, doesn’t forget to tip the waitress*

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Poland: 1
    Germany: 0

    For once.

    • Kivaari

      Don’t forget those horrible years under the Soviet bear. That bear crapped all over the woods of central Europe.

      • iksnilol

        Yup, very few from Eastern and Southern Europe like Russians. Only ones I can think of are Romanians and Serbians… Though both of those are basically mini-Russia.

        • Tritro29

          Playas getting hate? Say it ain’t so.

          • iksnilol

            Playas?

            More like genocidal scum in my eyes, but no politics.

          • Tritro29

            You really want to go there? Because I got a whole degree devoted to the whole “genocidal” aspect of playas. Every side included. Also I see you’re sporting a Fleur de Lys? Bosniaci? Shouldn’t talk about things you guys were part of. Now back to firearms.

          • iksnilol

            Ah, of course. We Bosnians and Croats did at most 10% of the genocide whilst the Serbs and their cohorts did about 90%.

            So take your “degree”, put it in the trash where it belongs and go out there and get a real degree.

            Now we can go back to firearms, četničko kopile jedno 😉

          • Tritro29

            Nothing to do with the recent fiasco. I’m talking about the fact you guys were part of the Ottoman cultural and physical genocide. As such you’re part of the issue. Deal with it. At least the other converts in the region, the Albanians, don’t give a f*ck about Islam or any other religion. That I can respect. Now back to guns.

            Also I’m not Serbian, Cevapci, I’m from up North. Now get your head straight and look at the big picture.

          • iksnilol

            You’re really pathetic, “ooh, multiculturalism, you’re the problem” yet commiting genocide isn’t a problem.

            As the English would say, sod off.

          • Tritro29

            Given I’m Russian I have no problem with Multi-Kulti, I served with Shamanists and fairytale believers didn’t stopped me from loving them like brothers.

            The issue is that planting Islam in the middle of ethnically intertwined population with self-mutiliating tendencies as the Balkanic people Wasn’t going to be a “millyet” success. Unless one used the “converts” for their subjugation ordeal. Genocide is not a disease, it’s a symptom. Civil War or Genocide or Ethnic cleansing are all symptoms of something that is off that’s called balance.

            As this is a primarily American board, you’d be hard pressed to talk about it, given that genocide and ethnic cleansing was part of the building process of the US. But…the issue wasn’t the Genocide it was the foreign influx on an ill prepared region. In the Americas it was a disaster, that still turned out “not so bad”. In the Balkans it didn’t. Ottoman rule just fractured a little more the whole area and gave it powderkeg abilities of biblical proportions. Cue WW1. Cue Yugoslav Wars. Cue Kosovo that I had the displeasure of assisting in person. If you can’t reflect with your brain but need emotions to hide your ignorance, well tough luck. Other people can deal with it in a rational way.

          • Kivaari

            Remember the people from the west did not hate the people in the Soviet Empire, we hated the politics and lack of freedoms the Soviets imposed on all the people. Had it not been for the Soviets demanding to stump on the people, we would have a much better world today.
            I certainly don’t object to Poland buying the ACR rights, and putting what they desire on to that platform.

          • Tritro29

            BS. Anglo-saxon press and people before hating on the “Hun”, were hating on the Russian. Before the Germans started to tackle British economic leadership, the Russians were tackling British leadership in the Med by trying to get to Constantinople. Also yeah sure Colonialism and WW1 were due on Soviet Communism. Jesus Lord Savioir what do they teach you about History on the other side.

          • Kivaari

            All of the pre WW1 colonial actions were wrong. We all get that. Russia needed western help to develop an industrial base. US and British machines and gun making tools were purchased by Russia. The Brits and Americans provided guns and knowledge helping Russia move forward. Had they depended upon their own means, they would have been backward for a much longer period. When the Soviets came to power they often killed or enslaved the best people they had.
            The only thing I can remember abut the Soviets during the 50-90s was how bad the government treated its people. WE did not want communism-Stalinism to get a foothold anywhere. It was simply wrong to do things the Soviet way, As a child I hated how the people were not free. I don’t remember ever hearing that the average citizen was bad.
            The communists saying the west was out to destroy the Russian people, just wasn’t true. I guess since we wanted a free and happier Russian that makes us bad people.

      • Tritro29

        Oh sure…because the industrial pool of most these countries blossomed after big bad bear went away…oh wait! Also PCO makes the same kind of crap as Belomo…the only issue being that Belomo is located in Belarus aka Northern Venezuela, while Poland is a Kapitalist Paradize111!!! I grant you that the Czechs had their very neat industrial pool vandalized (but Ze Germans did that, we only under-invested). Once again, Poland shat itself to get around a simple SPG system (until the Koreans came along) and this rifle isn’t any different. Czechs litterally had four designs inbetween their current Bren, the Poles can’t even manage to Xerox their ACR-szki right. Yeah how does that feel?

        • odrzut

          > the industrial pool of most these countries blossomed after big bad bear went away

          It did. It’s funny actually. In post-soviet countries universally – export increased by order of magnitude, while energy consumption and employement in industry decreased (usually from around 60% to around 30%).

          This should give you an idea how inefficient it actually was “under the bear”.

          • Tritro29

            Given the Cold War and the almost impractical level of trade on most items, that’s horse****. The system was closed so there wasn’t going to be no Trade between the two blocks. Also most of the industries were geared towards internal consumption, while now, the industries (or what is left of them) are geared towards export. Check the structure of export for most of the Central European states. About a quarter of their trade goes to…Germany. Usually those are German manufacturers or German brokers that take in most of the production. This simply also affected emplyment. Not only by sector, but actually in absolute.
            That resulted in two issues. Immigration and Education. Poland for instance keeps loosing people to immigration because there’s no jobs at home. There’s also the new “Black death” of efficiency. Public Debt. Poland went from roughly 90 million USD public debt in 1992 to currently 320billion USD. So yeah great success for the new non-Soviet states. Shall we continue with the Devil and the details or are you going to “keep pounding”?

        • Kivaari

          Do we get some Pollock jokes now? The idea of all the dumb Poles was increased after WW2 when it was found that most of the Polish brain power was murdered by Russians and Germans. I guess it takes a few years to replace that lost intellect after all were planted in the ground or turned to ashes. From Finland south to Asia, the Russians and Germans destroyed the best people of each nation.

          • Tritro29

            Dumb Poles? Nope it was meant to show that the only thing that should have been kept running, the defence sector was butchered Halal style. And it took the Poles 16 years to finish ONE project that had most the work done. Which was the AS KRAB. In Russia we have more of that though. Like about 20 years for a plane. Nothing to do with Dumb Poles. It has to do with how bad the political choices were during the first years of “Independence”…

        • n0truscotsman

          You need to do some research on Estonia’s economy. It is a perfect refutation of the Soviet system as the baltics are on track to becoming an extension of Scandinavia.

          • Tritro29

            Estonia’s economy? Are we daydreaming? Look at the GDP and how the 2008 crisis hit Estonia and the Baltic states. A big issue with Estonia is that people are confusing ease of doing business, with actual success of doing business. The perfect example of it is that While you can open your start up in 3 hours in Estonia, your young people are leaving the country. Guess why? Progress by refuting industrialization. Yeah YOU ought to do that research on your economy. Extension of Scandinavia? Check your GDP and real GDP as well as poverty threshold.

          • n0truscotsman

            “Look at the GDP and how the 2008 crisis hit Estonia and the Baltic states.”

            Irrelevant

            My point is: compare post-2008 recession Estonia and the Baltics compared to the Soviet era.

          • Max Glazer

            They are actually worse off today. Back in Soviet days level of employment was higher then today. Also with a lot of things being totally free (education, medical, child care) and also things like maternal leave were available as well as trip to resort bases. Electricity prices, water, sewerage, gas were rather affordable. People didn’t leave extravagantly, sure, but still they had enough to live and not feel constrained financially.

          • n0truscotsman

            Saying that it is *worse* off than the Soviet days is something conjured up from the sycophants at RT or Sputnik News. Compelete, utter horsecrap.

            https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/estonia-s-role-advocate-internet-freedom

            “in Soviet days level of employment was higher then today”

            Which isn’t hard to do when you have mandated industries that dont compete by the rules of supply and demand, harboring horrible inefficiencies that are painted over by ideology and wishful thinking.

            “Also with a lot of things being totally free (education, medical, child care) and also things like maternal leave were available as well as trip to resort bases”

            Yeah thats great. And such a system wasn’t sustained, wasn’t it? That is pretty telling. What is also not comparable is the *quality* of those services rendered compared to western models. Its hard enough distinguishing that from Soviet propaganda.

            http://www.heritage.org/index/country/estonia

            Now, Estonia isn’t perfect by any means, and considering that it underwent the dissolution of the Soviet Union, something that was traumatic for all former members, it has made significant progress as a nation that is modernizing.

            Considering the fate of Soviet-style regimes now (economically stagnant, police states only existing beause of their isolationism), the end result is pretty telling.

          • Tritro29

            The system isn’t sustainable on both sides of the coin. Check both public deficits. That’s the thorn on every social-democratic system. And it becomes a tombstone on a liberal one. Now do you have anything to tell me about those shrinking Baltic Demographics or shall we close this debate?

          • n0truscotsman

            The public deficient issue and declining demographics (something attributable to industrialized western nations) is a whole other ball of wax that will have to be dealt with down the road. Something I haven’t argued against either.

            Something I haven’t mentioned because it strays far away from the soviet vs post-soviet comparisons.

          • Tritro29

            Actually it doesn’t. A new born democracy and heavily nationalist at that to boot with a “better performing economy” and relying heavily on service sector, isn’t supposed to lose people. That’s what Estonia for instance is advertising. Well It’s not working. Also the Public deficit issue and declining population, ironically has been tackled rather interestingly by a whole range of nations. Starting by my own country Russia. So nope, it doesn’t stray away. It confirms exactly what I said. The economy of Estonia (among others) cannot handle its current state of affairs. Not even the rather dismal (when compared to Soviet Era) social protection is affordable. And let’s not talk about critical issues like defense or trade. Basically Baltic states are going to their bottom critical mass to balance their sheets. And then some. That much for “the brave new world”.

          • Tritro29

            Also the comparison between Estonia and Russia for some reason isn’t going to work out as you intended…

          • Tritro29

            Fully relevant. The Baltic states are exactly what is wrong with the “new way”. I can compare them and see that the real Estonian GDP isn’t anything to brag about over some of its “non-Free” neighbours.

            Russia and Belarus. Nope you need to see the actual weaknesses of the system you’re lauding. Baltic states are graveyards in the making. And that’s because “everything is shiny” in Scandic wannabee Estonia.

    • Ullan

      Polish did kick some German ass in the Siege of Tobruk. The australians said that in their aggressive defence patrols that the polish were unenthusiastic when capturing/storming italians, but were incredibly eager when germans were spotted.

      • Galvars .

        Poland was not in war with Italy, it was a problematic situation when they ware in opposite bloc’s. So there was a non written rule to be “easy with Italians” and Italians ware “easy with Poles”. Brits was not happy about it, in the Siege of Tobruk whole company of Italians take a swim in sea, in range of Poles and nobody shoot a single bullet. But when single German courier move to forward position and Poles saw him whole line open fire at that one men.

    • Tritro29

      …Nope.

  • TheSmellofNapalm

    Can’t wait for those 5.56x45mm grenade launchers to be fielded! 😉

  • BrandonAKsALot

    I’m tired of this soap opera Poland. Give me rifle now!

  • Kivaari

    If it performs as well as it looks it will be great. I am glad the Polish people are now back as an ally to the Western nations. Poles, when given a choice were a pretty western nation in the early days of the last century. Like Czechs, they were a battle ground, between crazy Germans and Russians.

  • Jas

    What’s the problem with Titan/Titanium? Most Polish weapon systems of the past fifty years were named after metals. There is Beryl (Berillium) rifle, Wanad (Vanadium) pistol, Glauberyt submachinegun and, yes, Titan (Titanium) rifle system.
    I think this gun is one of the more promising designs of recent times, considering its modular setup. Love the bullpups.

    • Tritro29

      Because the same place makes them…FB.

    • Chris22lr

      Titan here doesn’t refer to metal (Titanium), but to giant deity from Greek mythology.

      MSBS doesn’t have any “metallic” codename assigned by MoD yet, and Titan is a name of whole “future warrior” project, not just it’s (least important) element. Actually, some of Titan’s equipment (like new thermal sight) was already tested on Beryl rifles. Rest of the stuff are (for example): individual NV goggles, personal GPS receivers, new “digital” radios, BMS and so on. Everything was allright until it dawned on some people that this new personal soldier equipment should be compatible with analogous equipment in vehicles. And then everything stalled because infantry-oriented program suddenly changed into whole armed forces thing.

  • Chris22lr

    Little correction: that potential MSBS user which is interested in compact version of rifle is Polish Border Patrol, not Polish Army.

    Also they are not seeking for “improved 5.56 loads” – that’s only Google Translate mistake (original sense is: “Potential user is interested in new firearm, chambered in 5.56×45 NATO cartridge, to replace already used weapons” – these already used weapons are AKMS rifles).

  • Kivaari

    Nothing good has ever flowed from Marxism.

    • iksnilol

      Eh, Jugoslavia was pretty chill. Norway is also very socialist, pretty chill too. I just don’t know to what extent you’d define Marxism?

      Problem was the aforementioned Serbs weren’t happy with Jugoslavia but wanted “Great Serbia” (AKA kill/drive out everybody else and take the whole shebang).

      • Kivaari

        Marxism as practiced in the former Soviet Union, Cuba, PRNK and Mao era China. Even the USA has free market socialism. There isn’t a good way to provide services to the public without having a social welfare net. Yugoslavia under Tito was more stable. The breakup was pretty tough on everyone in those various countries. It was a real bad time.

        • Tritro29

          Given Marxism hasn’t any idea on how to regulate a state, “socialism in the motherland” had nothing about Marxism. It’s like saying there can’t be nothing good out of Christianity…with enough time, you even forget what it was about, it becomes “muscle memory”. Same for “Socialism”.

        • iksnilol

          Oh yeah, that Marxism was a flop. xD

          Yeah, problem with Yugoslavia was Tito. People followed the man and not his ideals.

      • Tritro29

        That’s very peculiar…because no one was happy with Yugoslavia. Or did Slovenians get away because it was fun and games? Or did Zvonimir Boban kicked that BOSNIAN COP because he was repressing his Yugoslav feelings? FFS how old are you? Serbia just lost the game, so now it’s Evil Zerbia everyone pretty. Fact is that Yugoslavia was built like a Ponzi Scheme from two sides and that Ponzi scheme got wrecked in the mid 80’s. From there on everyone tried to pull the blanket on his direction. Some gone crazy…there’s no such thing as a chill Yugoslavia. Same for the Soviet Union. Not chill.

        • iksnilol

          Was pretty chill = it worked.

          it worked until the Serbians got into power and wanted to kill everyone who didn’t agree with them (I.E. that wanted to be independent).

          • Tritro29

            It didn’t. I’m going to repeat myself here. HOW. OLD. ARE. YOU? If you thing that Yugoslavia worked, well it worked as well as the Subprimes. It didn’t work out. And nope the Serbians “didn’t get into power”, because the political system didn’t allowed them a take over. You should check the JNA top brass by 1989…you’re going to get a CVA.

          • iksnilol

            All the ministers of defense were serbs. Oh no, they didn’t “get to power”. The army just miraculously joined them in exterminating their enemies. And any people who were disagreeing with them or opposing them just had freak accidents.

            Just like you Russians didn’t invade Crimea, those were just freelance people using Russian equipment, training, tactics and troops.

            I am sick and tired of historical revisionists such as yourself painting me and my people as war criminals. Especially when you are at best 10 times worse.

          • Tritro29

            We invaded Crimea? Yeah, we did. As a matter of fact a guy with whom I served was in front row taking Ukrainian Colonels prisoners. You think I got a problem with the truth baby?

            But until 1988 the damn minister of Defence was a Croat. The Top brass were mainly Croats, which in return started to go sideways, when them Croats decided they’ll be having their own Army. Guess how did that worked out for the Confederates. Picture that but in reverse fortune in Yugoslavia. Historical revisionists? Well go check why Yugoslavia was a Ponzi Scheme. And you’ll get the point of my “historical revisionism”.

          • iksnilol

            Marmula? He was serb all the way.

    • Tritro29

      Yeah because Marxism caused Ottoman conquest…

  • Tritro29

    Balance is called balance. There was no Great Serbia in the 14/15th century only a genocidal movement by the Ottoman Empire. They massacred about half the Bulgarian Population. They kept doing so century after century and brought in both religion and colonial rule. Rationnality? You’re talking about something I don’t even address. You’re pure emotion and non-sense. Learn some history before talking shi*. Whoever wants to kill you, that’s your biz, not mine. I’m stating the obvious Trojan Horse in the Balkans. Before “Bosnians” actually before Islamic conversions there were enough murders and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. You aren’t some kind of pure entity. Killing you or not isn’t the deal. The deal is calling people genocidal maniacs, while the very existence of Bosnia (at least its Muslim part) was a genocidal process, both physical and cultural.

    • iksnilol

      Bosnians existed before Serbs in that area.

      You can call us being muslims a consequence of the Ottomans (which I am not a fan of) but Bosnians as a people are not a consequence of genocide or an modern invention.

      Also, there never was a Great Serbia nor shall there ever be.

      • Tritro29

        Bosnians as a muslim self-aware entity within the Duchy (Hercegovina) didn’t existed before the 15th century conversions. The current Tri-ethnic state is exactly the consequence of that. Less weapons, more books is my advice to you.

        You talk about Great anything. You should get your head checked.

        • iksnilol

          Bosnians as an non-muslim entity existed in the 9th and 10th century.

  • Core

    Anyone know the make and model of the reflex sights they are using? TIA