Use The Force, No Sight Shooting

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My friend Jeff shared these pictures of someone he saw at a local range. The shooter is not function testing this rifle. He is actually trying to shoot for accuracy. A bit of a challenge when he does not have any sights on the AR. But he did tape a spare magazine to his loaded magazine and he has what looks to be a grip pod. So he’s got that going for him.

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Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Griz

    Instead of making fun of this “noon” someone should have offered to let him shoot a rifle equipped with a red dot or irons. Maybe then he would realize what is missing.

  • Giolli Joker

    Maybe he’s testing a new type of BUIS that fits snugly in the top rail, like low profile pistol sights… and by SHOT ’17 we’ll see him again on these pages.
    🙂

  • John

    If we played this game, you know, the one with “stupid we saw displayed at the range”, we’d be here all day….

    Come to think of it, that might not be a bad segment for this blog.

    Gotta go dig out some old pictures.

  • Gunter

    Judging by the barrel length and distance to target, he should be able to get some decent results. Might even try some hipshooting.

  • Nandor

    He saw this on The Walking Dead and figured there must be something to it.

  • Mcameron

    eh, “no sight” shooting isnt really that hard….and it can be good practice to make shooting more instinctive.

    if you have a good and consistent cheek weld, all you should have to do is look at your target and you should have no problem hitting it.

    when i was shooting 3P…..after practice, i would occasionally set up shotgun hulls at 75 feet, and i would have no problem hitting them without any sights…….

  • DaveP.

    Jim Cirillo used to tape over his front sight to practice exactly this kind of instinctive shooting. According to the internet commandos posting here, that made him a joke too.

  • 2hotel9

    At that distance with a rifle he should be able to get bullseyes without even putting cheek to stock.

  • Rob

    First a disclaimer, I too have made jokes at others expense…but this is the sort of thing that makes me wonder about “us” and our “community of the gun”. We seem to think anyone below or perceived below our own level needs to be ridiculed. As a group we should stand together more…Yes I have seen absolute asshats in the world of guns, and I reject them, maybe this guy is one of them? I don’t know, but I will not make fun of him with so little of the story. I suspect he just bought the rifle and just could not resist shooting it even before getting his sights/optics.

    On a side not I pulled the sights off a glock, (had two of the same model) and would shoot it along side of one with sights as a practice “instinctive” aiming gun. At what I would call typical pistol ranges it was surprising how good of a group could be shot with it.

    • Jack Morris

      Agreed, I hate how judgmental the general gun crowd can be. It’s not a contest folks; it’s a community. Instead of snapping a photo to make fun of him, why not introduce yourself and chat about your shared hobby. You may find, with a little conversation, the guy had a valid reason for what he was doing. If he didn’t, and was new to the sport, offer to help!

      • Edeco

        Yep, sophomoric, master a skill or two and lord it over someone else.

      • Tim Pearce

        He’s also shooting at what appears to be about 20-25 feet. Do you really need sights at that distance? I’ve never tried shooting a gun with no sights. With the rail on top helping to align it left & right, it’s just a matter of getting a feel for the elevation, I’d think.

        • carlcasino

          Ever shot a shotgun? I used to assist with shooting sports and several things I learned was eye dominance and using your offhand as a pointing device. The little tiny bead on the muzzle is all the Front Sight you need to hit moving targets. I watched novice 12 year old shooters build confidence shooting from low house at low house birds using(right handed shooter) left index finger pointing toward the front sight and acquiring the target. Start out missing , then hitting , then hitting 10 out of 10. I’m almost 80 and have used this exercise with my AR-15 at 25 yards with no optics, then BUIS , ant then EO Tech holographic. I will never be an Olympic shooter but I can hit what’s in front of me, even while I’m moving. Notice I did not say running !

      • Hallan

        For home defense, sights are not necessary and present a realistic snag hazard.

        • The_Automator

          Are you kidding? Please tell me you’re kidding.

          Please, please be kidding.

        • Younggun21

          Uhhhhh just my two cents: but I’m sure a prosecutor would have a field day with a home defense rifle submitted as evidence without any sights. Wouldn’t take much to convince a jury of recklessness or worse with a firearm that is sight-less.

          • Jeremy Nettles

            Perhaps I’m just a legal ignoramus for not understanding this, but how in the world could a lack of sights on a rifle be construed as anything malicious? If I were on that jury, I’d think my first instinct would be to conclude that the defendant had no intention of using the rifle for nefarious purposes connected to the incident for which he’s being tried. After all, if I’m planning to shoot my neighbor, I’m probably going to want to be able to hit him! If, on the other hand, I bought a rifle and haven’t had the chance (or the funds) to equip it with my preferred optics yet, I’m still going to grab it when an intruder endangers my family’s lives, unless there’s a better option available.

          • CountryBoy

            No, you’re not a “legal ignoramus”, but just understand that a malicious prosecutor will look for ANYTHING to make a gun owner look bad, even defending his own home, in order to cast doubt on why you even had to shoot the guy breaking into your domicile.

            A gullible jury, made of of non-shooters, would likely buy the story and the “recklessness” that came of having no sights, and thus “not knowing or caring where the bullets go or who they hit”, for example.

            Using one’s imagination, I can think of a number of other ways to slam the legal gun owner for doing something completely legal in defending my family – but that’s not what the perp’s defense attorney is trying to do. He is trying to deflect blame, responsibility and accountability from his client – and I’m the next logical one to take that blame.

            Yes, it stinks, but that’s what we’re dealt.

          • DaveGinOly

            You have a point. But it’s the prosecutor’s job to sell a prosecution to the jury. Anything he can twist to make the defendant look guilty will be twisted, no matter how ridiculous it may sound to someone with any knowledge of the subject.

          • Jwedel1231

            That’s why you need to have access to a competent lawyer.

          • USMC69

            only if he missed.

          • Michel_T

            That would be why I don’t like lawyers all that much.

            If someone breaks into a dwelling, with ill entent, I couldn’t care less what the home owner used to protect himself and his/her family.

            If a thug was to be lef off the hook because of a lack or proper sight, that would be pretty darn pathetic.

        • Bill

          I not know nothing about that there legal stuff, but I do know that having sights increasify your chancabilities of hitifying your target. What’s your home made out of, yarn and barbed wire?

      • yessah3

        Exactly. I came here expecting an article on instinctive shooting, something native americans did and something that was taught to American soldiers during Vietnam with red ryder bb guns. Instinctive shooting allows faster targeting and can be no less accurate with practice. Plus it makes your gun lighter.

      • Treyh007

        It’s definitely a contest with most of these guys, who’s the most tacticool and spends the most money! That’s just the nature of the beast. Just read sll the smartass negative comments on almost every article.

    • Sam

      Just because the only thing we have is this picture and small caption doesn’t mean the photographer didn’t stop to help the guy afterwards.

      I worked at a range for two years and I encountered this quite a bit. Guys would buy an AR and want to shoot it instantly. I’d have to reject them because they had no sights/optics and they didn’t understand what the big deal was. I don’t think it’s bad to poke fun at it.

      • Mikial

        @Sam
        Why would you reject them because they had no sights on their brand new AR? Even at an outdoor range with longer lanes than an indoor range, as long as the shooter is sighting down the top of the receiver and barrel it isn’t any more likely their shots are going to go out of their lane and create havoc than for someone with ultra expensive sights who either hasn’t zeroed them or doesn’t know how to align the correct sight picture.

        • Sam

          … You don’t think it’s dangerous for a person inexperienced with firearms to be shooting a rifle with no sights?

          • Bill

            I’m not sure that it’s more or less dangerous, though “Keep Your Finger Off The Trigger Until Your Sights are On Target and You’ve Made the Decision to Fire” is hard to reinforce without sights.

          • MarkVShaney

            I think you can’t be hyper-pedantic without using the word pedantic. I guess your gun safety rules don’t apply to like ~any~ shotgun that I have ever owned. I don’t count a bead as a “sight”.

          • Bill

            I very much count a bead as a sight. I’ve got a little doohickey that models the shooter’s view of the receiver and the bead and a bunch of PowerPoint slides that I use to train cops and show them that supposedly “inaccurate” bead-sghted shotguns can be pretty accurate.

          • Mikial

            What are you basing your determination that they were inexperienced with firearms on? All you said in your comment was they had a new gun. If they were inexperienced, I would hope you offered them more than a simple, “No you can’t shoot here,” flat statement.

          • Sam

            Yeah, obviously. I think I give really good customer service, but I’m not going to write out an entire novel here about how I handled those situations. And even if they were experienced shooters, it violates the most basic safety rules to shoot a firearm that doesn’t have sights. And it also doesn’t give you any sort of feedback other than “This gun cycles.” It was just something I was never comfortable letting people do because it’s dangerous.

          • Mikial

            And no one is asking for you to write a novel, believe me. All I’m saying is I don’t see the danger you are talking about, and maybe that was all the new owner of an AR wanted to know. If an inexperienced shooter showed up to shoot a gun for the first time with a great set of sights, that would be safe? Do you ask every shooter coming to your range what his/her experience level is before you allow them to shoot? I think you are being rather judgmental and not taking the time to truly understand what the situation is before you shoot someone down and then tell us “I don’t think it’s bad to poke fun at it.”

          • Budogunner

            To be fair, there isn’t much information about what the actual situation was. Even the author admits that.

          • Sam

            “Do you ask every shooter coming to your range what his/her experience level is before you allow them to shoot?”

            Actually yeah, in a sort of way. It’s easy to gauge where someone’s experience/skill level is just in basic conversation while checking them in to the range. That was something I always made a point to do, was try to figure out how much help this person needed in a polite, conversational way without straight-up asking.

            If they say something like “Oh, I’m excited I finally get to shoot my new rifle!” I’d just ask if they have any questions on it or need any help with explaining operation, etc. or maybe just ask to take a look at their new toy, and that would be enough to direct the conversation in a way that I could gain some situational awareness of this person’s skill level.

          • Mikial

            @SamEyeYam:disqus
            That’s actually a really good answer and procedure. I guess what struck me about your initial comment was the “it’s okay to poke fun at them” line. So if I was being unfair, my apologies, but it seemed more like the kind of comment you get from people who look down on others.

            I was at the indoor range today, and there was a very elderly man in a wheelchair shooting. He wasn’t doing too bad, and we talked later out in the front about his shooting. He had done “okay” as he put it, but his eyesight wasn’t all that good so he was looking forward to some eye surgery that would help him. He kept a bag on his wheelchair that held his 9mm and an extra mag. Other people at the range knew him and everyone supported his absolute right to not be a defenseless victim even though his skills were no longer optimum.

            I guess I feel the same about people in general. Yeah, there are some real bozos out there who need a lot of coaching, but that’s just the way it is. I admit my profession as a “security consultant” might color my attitude toward helping everyone to be capable and willing to defend themselves from all the filth that seems to be among us these days, but most people really do respond well to some polite and considerate coaching.

          • Sam

            Yeah, I’m not one to stand back and sneak a picture and laugh behind someone’s back. Maybe I’ll point something funny out to a coworker but I would always try to help people that seemed like they were somewhat naive or ignorant of the right way to do it. And you’re right, most people definitely respond positively to some well-intentioned advice.

          • Kivaari

            Same here. If they point it down range and let fly, who cares?

          • Kivaari

            It would be hard to not hit the backstop.

          • Sam

            Next time you go to any indoor range, look at the ceiling. Or walls. The floor. You’d be surprised.

          • Kivaari

            Those negligent shots are at most ranges. There’s not a lot behind dangerous people leaving holes in stuff. We had them purposely shooting ventilation fans. Those were put there by members. Like shooting the 5.56mm into a non-magnum pistol and rim-fire range.

          • Bill

            Well, hitting a moving fan blade would be quite a trick, if they called the shot 😉

            What is it about pistol-only-rated steel that makes it irresistible to rifle shooters?

          • Mikial

            How do they even get that on the range. Our local indoor range is pistol calibers .44 Mag and below and they watch everything by CCTV and you can hear how loud the report is from the front even through the soundproofing.

          • Kivaari

            We had a range that was not tended by safety officers. All members were issued a key and cold go there at any time day or night. So when things get shot, it is by dues paying members. Crazy isn’t it. Where we currently live a person opens the gate at sunup and closes it at sundown. No range officer is in attendance most times. Donation cans are present. The range is a fine range and received several grants from the NRA to make considerable improvement to safety and ease of use.

          • Mikial

            @Kivaari:disqus

            Okay, now I am envious of you. 😉 That would be very cool. I lived in Utah for a while and made a lot of trips into Idaho and Wyoming. Hopefully I can move back out there someday.

            As far as the dues paying members shooting things they shouldn’t, a lot of things make no sense whenever people are involved.

          • Kivaari

            Cameras at a range in Bellevue (WA) have recorded quite a few suicides using rental guns. It caught a woman shooting her boyfriends head off. She had a .44 magnum, and he was behind her, when she shot. When the gun recoiled back over her head she was scared and hung on hard to the gun. She fired another shot, instantly killing him. I suspect he was trying the old thing where you hand an amateur a hard kicking gun and get a laugh out of how they react.

          • MarkVShaney

            Most indoor ranges around here do not allow rifle caliber weapons.

          • Ed Forney

            There are a couple. You are right though. Most are 22’s.

          • Budogunner

            I have never comprehended how indoor ranges get so shot up but most I’ve been to look that way. I’ve never been present when someone put a bullet in the ceiling, floor, or wall but someone is sneaking in and doing it. Just as well, I’m happy not to be there when it happens.

          • Mikial

            Okay, I gotta tell this story.

            At our local range a few weeks ago a guy came in with his friend, who he was going to teach to shoot a Beretta 92. They rented a gun and came out to the range where I and quite a few others were shooting. After about 15 minutes, he loudly asked everyone to stop shooting so he could go downrange and get something he had “dropped.”

            I don’t work there, but I go there a lot and am friends with the owners so I told him no, he needed to go get the guy out front. Turns out that he hadn’t just tried to teach his friend to shoot, but had actually tried to disassemble the gun in the range booth and ended up launching the recoil spring downrange. The range employee recovered the spring and lectured the dude on not disassembling the rental guns on the range, and we all went back to shooting.

            Some people take a little more patience and coaching than others.

          • Hensley Beuron Garlington

            I think that’s usually stupidity. At least it is at our shooting range. We only have cameras and jackasses go there and shoot the entire place up when alone. All the time.
            That has very little to do with no sight shooting and everything to do with pure stupidity.

          • A.WChuck

            Just look at the walls and ceiling in the pictures above in the story.

            Anyway, it seems he is pointed properly at his own target and not the floor, ceiling, etc.

          • Mikial

            @SamEyeYam:disqus
            No disagreement there. I am always amazed at the number of people who must be having NDs in order to hit the ceiling 3 feet in front of the booth.

          • Ed Forney

            My son hit the target holder on an indoor range. The scope mounts were loose, but the range guy was not happy.

          • MontieR

            You have NO information on this guys expierience level. I had an old pistol the front sight came off of and at 5 yards I could shoot 6 inch groups. Never could find a replacement sight.

          • Sam

            Lol man, people are getting so defensive about this no sights thing!

            A.) A picture is worth a thousand words. Therefore I have a decent amount of information on this guy’s experience level. If you can’t look at either of those pictures and instantly draw a similar conclusion, than I don’t know what to tell you.
            B.) You know, an experienced gunsmith worth his salt could fabricate a front sight for you…?

          • Archie Montgomery

            By what criteria or observation do you presume the shooter is ‘inexperienced’?

            No, it is not dangerous in the circumstance. It is rather easy to keep a long gun pointed in a safe direction without sights. Especially on an indoor range with position baffles. Nor do the presence of sights prevent one from turning the arm sideways.

          • Kivaari

            It shouldn’t cause concern to anyone. Just point it where it needs to be pointed and chances are the bullets will go where they should. I am more worried about anyone that has poor muzzle discipline and likes to ride a trigger. Why would anyone care if a shooter, with or without experience, that takes aim over the gun at a target a few feet away. It’s simply point shooting, that may not produce tight groups. I suspect every round he shot hit that huge target.

          • 2hotel9

            Muzzle down range, eyes down range, still trying to figure out where the problem is. And still laughing at this guy in his PT gear and poor shooting stance.

      • Bill

        Maybe keeping a cheap set of loaner BUIS on hand for just such occasions? At the ranges available indoors I don’t see any issues to prohibit it, though unless it’s function testing I don’t see the point, pardon the pun.

        • Joe

          Exactly!

        • Sam

          If you give an inexperienced shooter a rifle with no sights, you’d typically see them shoulder it, get some sort of a cheek weld, and use the muzzle as the point of reference to aim. A shouldered rifle, using the muzzle to aim with equals your rifle pointing up at a high-ish angle. Which means the ceiling is getting shot, or the target carriers, or anything besides the target. Which isn’t safe, and it can also be expensive for the owner of the range.

          Also, we had an EOTech we’d take off one of our range rifles and lend out if time permitted and we weren’t too busy. But it wasn’t always feasible. But stuff disappeared all the time, so if we’re just handing out BUIS all the time, we’d basically be giving them away somewhat regularly because people either intentionally steal things or unintentionally forget to return it/we forget to retrieve them upon check-out.

          • Bill

            I see exactly the same things on indoor LE ranges, and have fielded phone calls from people various distances from outdoor LE ranges wondering where those bullets came from.

            FWIW, managing training ranges and program for 20 plus years, I view anything In front of the firing line(s) as disposable. If you think it can’t possibly be shot, it’s guaranteed to catch a bullet.

          • Sam

            Oh for sure. I don’t disagree at all. But there are things you can do to mitigate excessive damage or dangerous situations. Like not letting someone shoot a rifle with no sights.

          • Bill

            I also question those that have lasers AND dot sights.

      • Ed Forney

        Probably worried that they would shoot the target holders off, or the cabels.

        • Sam

          Yup. Bingo.

        • Mikial

          If someone can hit a target holder or a cable intentionally without sights, then he is pretty darn good. On the other hand, I see all the wild hits on the ceilings and other areas of the lanes where I shoot, and I will pretty much guarantee that the vast majority of those hits, intentional or accidental, were made by people who had sights on their guns.

          • Ed Forney

            I certainly didn’t mean intentionally.

          • Mikial

            @Ed@edforney:disqus

            Okay, got it. Well, go into any indoor range in America where the vast majority of shooters will be using sights, and look at the ceiling and target racks and you will see that they have been hit more times than you can count. i guess my point is that saying this guy is any more likely to hit them because he is sighting down the barrel just doesn’t hold water.

          • Ed Forney

            It’s the range owners that are concerned.

    • BrandonAKsALot

      I actually came here expecting an article on instinctive shooting and instead it’s this.

      • Michel_T

        Same here… instinctive shooting is quite common in archery…

        how well, as long as he’s having fun, who cares!

    • G0rdon_Fr33man

      Signed… Would not be the first time someone shot their gun without sight. Just to try it out. Maybe he had to save up some more to afford it?

    • Rustle Wiltson

      Yeah I thought this article was going to be about instinctive point shooting, which is the term to describe shooting without gaining a sight picture; namely, because your attention will be instinctively focused on the threat. Afterall, we are hardwired to narrow in on the threat before us in order to precipitate a deadly blow and potentially strike back or flee to survive.

      With the adrenaline dump and unpredictability associated with violent encounters I couldn’t imagine being afforded the luxury of presenting a decent sight picture in such a ( typically )dynamic, close quarters scenario.

      Drawing the gun cleanly in a reactive situation is going to be a luxury most of the time as well and the more hidden a gun is – ie tucked in, pocket carry,shirt holsters etc, the more difficult it becomes to draw the gun . Quick, unhindered draw repetitions followed by fast, instinctive pairs of fire is usually where I excel when practicing at the range from a more realistic defensive standpoint.

  • John Smith

    First comment got deleted, not going to retype it.
    Thanks TFB!

    • Varix

      What was it?

    • Twilight sparkle

      If you included a link or something like that it probably just has to be approved first

    • Hensley Beuron Garlington

      Happens a lot when I try to post a link as well. Or any language above PG. Some PG stuff will even get it rejected.

  • Geo

    Good for this shooter. My grandfather taught me to shoot without sights. He stressed Knowing where your rifle shoots, bullet placement and target movement. it’s not for shooting 1/4 inch at 100,000 meters.

    • El Duderino

      Sure, for snap shots. Try hitting ANYTHING smaller than an outhouse at 500m with no sights. You’re right…riflecraft is way more than one-holing a 5 shot group at X range. But with no sights you’re limited to 100ish meters with any rifle, no matter who taught you.

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        Shoot, I think its only possible to get away with it below fifty meters. Its extremely hard to make decent shots a hundred meters and gets harder from there, with irons. Heck anything over 250-500 is really hard.
        If you guys are shooting better, my hats off to you.

  • Tyler McCommon

    I saw this at the range a month ago. And yes he did get some nice scope eye.

    • Devil_Doc

      Magpul BUIS on a gas block? Nice.. Knock-off Barska ACOG, even nicer. But what is that mount? Is that even designed for an AR? I will normally talk to people if I see this sort of thing, but I don’t know about this guy. I’m getting the “I learned everything I know from ARFCOM” vibe just from the picture..

      • Twilight sparkle

        Usually arfcom doesn’t give out bad advice. Not like that anyways.

        • Thirst_quencheR

          Arfcoms bad advice usually revolves around relationships

      • Tyler McCommon

        You forget to mention the headphones for hearing protection and the flashlight mounted on the scope!

        Yeah this was some Korean guy and his weapons were all very…. Odd. But credit where credit is due and he did achieve decent groupings.

        • Mikial

          And in the end, hitting what you’re aiming at is what matters.

      • Swarf

        Wel, he is a Yankees fan.

        • Evan

          Real NY baseball fans are Mets fans. The Yankees just buy winning teams.

    • Sianmink

      Is.. is he wearing noise cancelling headphones?

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        I think they are. Just straight up music playing headphones with the active noise cancelling feature. LOL.

      • Ben

        If they’re good enough for Royal Nonesuch* they’re good enough for anyone.

        *Youtube gun person. Probably will be missing at least 2 fingers in the next five years.

  • James

    Reminds me of a squad of soldiers I saw on Camp Leatherneck. No optics or back up sights. Go Army…….

    • Evan

      I saw some POG guarding the chow hall on TQ (al-Taqqadum air base, Iraq) with an M16 with an M4 stock and no optic or iron sights. I pointed out to him that he wasn’t gonna hit much like that, and he sulkily told me that it wasn’t as if he ever left the wire anyway. I didn’t really have a comeback for that one.

  • Varix

    babby’s first rifle

  • Martin Grønsdal

    when I parachuted over a place I can’t talk about, in a top-secret operation, using weapons that newwa-been-don-beffoo, I sniped a target 3000 m away not using sights!

    • iksnilol

      Smart. Scopes weigh much 😉

  • TC

    can’t you see the ‘ghost rings’

    • Porty1119

      As a fan and major user of GRS…I laughed.

  • Twilight sparkle

    In the first picture it looks like he thinks the rail is his sight. I hope someone helps him…

  • jeffrey melton

    Shooting without sights, ha ha. What at first looks funny, trust me it’s not. After becoming proficient with the sights on you weapon , try shooting sightless. Why? So that in the event of catastrophic loss of your sights, you can still shoot effectively. In combat situations, do you stop using your weapon when the sights have become useless? No. Not if you want to survive your gun fight. Shooting sightless builds instinct.

    • Bill

      Don’t go there – nothing about shooting is “instinctual” versus cognitive and perceptual. I know instructors who pull the sights of pistols to teach “instinctive shooting,” but they can’t do anything I can’t do mor accurately, and legally and morally defensible with sights.

      If things are bad enough that all the sights on your gun are missing or destroyed, I’d leave, instead of sticking around to miss more.

      • jeffrey melton

        For clarification, I was speaking of what to do in a catastrophic loss of sights or scope. So Bill, hypothetically you’re in a shootout with a bad guy, you’re saying ; I quit please don’t shoot me ,my sights are broken so I’m ready to go now, if you will just stop shooting at me. Really , you’re just going to leave? Must be nice. In a SHTF moment I would rather know how to fight without sights than to turn tail and hope I don’t get shot there as I run away. Sights are better than no sights but accidents happen. When accidents happen it’s better to know what to do, so practice, practice and then practice some more with and without sights. The reason you practice is to not miss.

        • RC Vic

          I have these same thoughts!

        • Dan

          I practice so I look good when some creep takes a picture of me behind my back

        • Bill

          It works like this: If I’m caught with my pistol, I use it to get to my rifle. If my optical sights break, I go to my BUIS. If they break, I go to shotgun. It it breaks, I go back to the pistol. If it breaks I go to the BUG. If the guy’s on top of me I go to knife 1 or knife 2. If he’s not on top of me I go to the car. If my ignition key breaks, I go to my spare ignition key. If ALL of this has happened and the bad guy is standing directly in front of me and I’m still alive I can run him over. Otherwise, I’m going to Disneyland. With that much bad luck I am NEVER going to Vegas.

          And you don’t “run away.” You move from cover to cover.

      • 2hotel9

        And when you can’t leave?

        • Bill

          Huh? If you go into a conflict without a plan for getting back out if things go wrong, that’s on you. Failing to plan for all contingencies is bad.

          • 2hotel9

            Twirl&spin. You honestly think you can just pick up your toys and walk away in the middle of a firefight? Wow. Just, wow.

          • Bill

            Twirl & spin. They don’t pay me to get killed, but to win, and If all four (minimum) of my guns have gone down, they expect me to have the brains to disengage so I can win tomorrow. Someone has spent too much time playing COD & HALO.

          • 2hotel9

            Twirl&spin. You fight with what you got, even when it breaks. Disengage means you keep fighting until your reaction force gets into position or you can call in artillery/airstrike and break contact, which means you keep fighting with what you got. Even when it breaks.

            Oh, and you can play whatever computer games you want, just learn to turn it off and go out and live in the real world. It is much healthier that way.

          • Ron

            I have to agree with that. If your job is to fight, you fight even if any a disadvantage.

          • Bill

            If you didn’t start the fight, you are already at a disadvantage. A lot more goes into winning a fight than just having a gun.

          • 2hotel9

            And your big plan is to just walk away.

          • Bill

            Well, I asked Clem, the guy who does most of the cropdusting, if he could fly an AC130H Spectre gunship to orbit overhead on traffic stops, and he said he couldn’t get the fuel. I also asked the Sheriff if we could all get JTAC training so we could call in some F16s the next time Mary Lou’s Stop and Rob gets held up, but he said no. He also said no to my request for a couple Blackhawk DAPs to speed up our backup time, but there isn’t room in the parking lot for them unless we can find a place to put that useless MRAP.

            You missed this: It works like this: If I’m caught with my pistol, I use it to get to my rifle. If my optical sights break, I go to my BUIS. If they break, I go to shotgun. It it breaks, I go back to the pistol. If it breaks I go to the BUG. If the guy’s on top of me I go to knife 1 or knife 2. If he’s not on top of me I go to the car. If my ignition key breaks, I go to my spare ignition key. If ALL of this has happened and the bad guy is standing directly in front of me and I’m still alive I can run him over. Otherwise, I’m going to Disneyland. With that much bad luck I am NEVER going to Vegas.

            And you don’t “run away.” You move from cover to cover.

          • 2hotel9

            No, you are the one who said you would just walk away. F**k you, c*nt.

          • Bill

            You’re funny.

          • Bill

            You’re funny. Get help.

          • 2hotel9

            Yep, there it is. And this Bill guy is just arguing in circles to hear himself talk.

          • 2hotel9

            Yep, there it is. This Bill guy is arguing in circles just to hear himself talk.

          • Bill

            Oh. My. God. I didn’t realize that I was in the presence of a Genuine Warrior Prince. How did I ever survive 30+ years as a rural Deputy Sheriff sharing a 550 square mile beat with one other guy with less than a third of a county radio coverage, a quarter of the roads paved and backup times ranging from 20 minutes to 4 hours? To think of all the airstrikes I should have called in, and artillery and quick reaction forces. Oh, wait, I don’t have any of that, not even a bayonet to fix and charge with, and the Sheriff said no to carrying a saber. Just my mind, four guns and common sense.

            Some of us have to rely on wits instead of gunships. But feel free to send me an Apache when I’ve got a car stopped at 0400 full of 5 bikers and a one-bottle meth cook. That’d be a lot healthier for me.

      • Clifford Mechels

        I remember reading that the Army was training solders instinct shooting during the 60’s and many were able to hit bb’s tossed into the air, source American Legion magazine. I know it works for short ranges.

        • Swarf

          Big Balloons.

      • Ron

        I believe that is why he caveats it “in a combat situation” sometimes you don’t have an option to leave. Yes sighted fire is the preferred COA but sometimes just leaving the fight or not putting down suppressive fire is not an option.

        • Bill

          Suppressive fire is frowned upon in law enforcement; we own every bullet. And it’s the Melting Glock Syndrome: anything that has wiped out both of the sighting systems on my rifle likely did me in during the process. Then if I manage to blow through my shotgun, duty pistol and BUG without effect, I’m either battling the monster from Cloverfield or it just aint my day.

      • 2hotel9

        Let me reiterate, you are the one who threw out this gem,”If things are bad enough that all the sights on your gun are missing or
        destroyed, I’d leave, instead of sticking around to miss more.” To which I responded,”And when you can’t leave?”. And you simply doubled down on stupid. Stupid. Do I need to repeat “stupid” a third time? Really?

  • Edeco

    Doesn’t look like very good PPE. I’d recommend earmuffs and glasses that wrap around.

    • hydepark

      I wouldn’t bother with the PPE thing here. I (and a few others here) commented on Alex’s lack of safety glasses in his videos numerous times and got a couple lackadaisical responses. Like most careless people he ended up learning the hard way that eye protection is a must at the range. He did a whole article on it a couple/few months back. I don’t recall him mentioning my or others’ helpful (and correct) comments or his ignorant attitude towards them.

  • derfelcadarn

    If you cannot shoot with reasonable accuracy with any weapon, without sights, at the ranges presented by this shooting facility then you should consider buying a club. Do not purchase anything sharp you will very likely hurt yourself.

    • RC Vic

      I was thinking about writing this scenario but read yours and wholeheartedly agree!

    • Mcameron

      you sound like someone who has never trained to shoot without sights…..

      around 70% of my pistol shooting is done without using the sights……have no problem putting them all COM at 25 yds

  • Geoffry K

    The rail is 1.25″ above the bore, so at short range just sighting along the top of the rail will be good enough. Bullet drop is not an issue up to 50 yards. Hit the bullseye? I doubt it. Kill the varmint? Yes.

  • It’s works on TV.

  • Joe

    At my range if you do not have functioning sights or a sighting system such as a scope, laser etc. you will not be allowed to fire a single shot.
    If your first shot is not on target with a rifle you must have that rifle bore sighted before you may fire a second shot.

    • Swarf

      I’m all for safety, but that seems… overly meddlesome. Does your range have a daycare center as a backstop?

      • Joe

        No, it just cost money to replace vertical uprights that support the baffles. Also unaimed, inaccurate fire is never safe. That and 1 mile behind the impact berm is a housing development.

        • Evan

          Is your range Wicen’s in PA? That place sucks.

          • Joe

            No it is not. Nowhere in PA. But I will have to take that under advisement if I move there.

          • Evan

            Oh. Because the housing development behind the impact berm sounds like Wicen’s. That place is awful; you have to shoot in this little bunker thing that really sucks, the staff there fondle your guns when the range is clear without even bothering to ask, and God forbid you go there with an attractive woman. They’ll hover around you, trying to “give her advice”, usually by repeating what you just told her verbatim. I went there once. Never again.

          • Joe

            That sounds hideous!

          • Evan

            Yup. There’s nothing to ruin the experience of shooting like having some creep rub his greasy fingers all over your really nice M1A and your excellent condition Kar98K without asking, tell you that you have “cool toys” (yeah Beavis, that’s why I bought them), and then, when the range is hot, hover around to “help” my friend’s hot cousin who had never shot a gun before by repeating what I told her verbatim.

    • Bill

      How many guys have sights or scopes and still can’t hit the target? What happens to them? Not being a smartass, I’ve just seen a lot of shooters in need of training.

      • Joe

        If they can’t shoot the RSO’s/ Instructors help out. If people are purposefully, shooting at range property they are ejected without refund. If it’s due to a new shooter, messed up sights/optics they can elect to recieve a quick lesson/assistance, or pack up, head out and get the issue fixed off site and return another day. I’ve seen scopes mounted backwards, rifles missing triggers, people attempting to use the wrong cartridge, and a whole host of other silly reasons why someone has to stop and go home. By far it comes down to cross eye dominate shooters, messed up optics, mismatched iron sights, or non existent marksmanship fundamentals.

  • Swarf

    Ha ha ha! Totally!! Hey, let’s go make fun of fat people at the gym next!

  • Blake

    Kirsten Joy Weiss explains how to do shoot “accurately” (or at least “precisely”) with no sights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYpR-WKRA6I

  • Don Mei

    At the distance to his target, he would actually be better off not using sights in a defensive encounter. Its faster and more instinctive. Of course that’s not what he’s doing. He’s sighting down the top of the receiver.

    Either way, I was a little surprised the first time an instructor had us bring our AR up to a point only about even with the top of our shoulder, but keep our head erect. You can get good hits out to 25 yards this way. And its very very fast.

  • BearSlayer338

    Not going to lie,I do this with all my pistols that have easy to replace sights.
    It is fun and it makes you realize how accurate your guns really are,I’m always impressed by my own groups when I shoot without sights at 15 yards,especially my P99(gen 1).

  • Evan

    I have a bigger problem with taping the mags together like that. Great way to damage the feed lips, get various debris in there, and drop rounds. No real advantage to it.

    • iksnilol

      Eh, I kinda agree.

      Tape them pointing the same way. Take a couple of cases between to provide the distance.

      That upside down stuff is kinda awkard to load for me.

    • 2hotel9

      I have only ever done the double mag using USGI metal clips, never did the tape thing. Have seen people using the newer mag clips which keep the mags facing the same direction, never got to use any myself.

  • Mikial

    Give the guy a break. He was probably really stoked that he had a new AR and wanted to shoot it. There’s always a back story behind every picture that we don’t know. Maybe he got the mags and grip with the rifle, and had sights on order . . . who knows. For all we know, this guy totally knew what he was doing. Maybe he didn’t. But either way, I would rather encourage a new shooter, or understand what an experienced one is doing than make fun of people. When I started shooting USPSA I was not very good and made lots of mistakes. A highly experienced shooter (who also happened to be a retired pro baseball player) gave me lots of excellent advice, all delivered with patience and a genuine desire to help a less experienced shooter out. He certainly could have laughed or made fun but he didn’t, and because of that I will never forget the things he taught me.

  • Sarig

    What’s she shooting? I want one.

    • SmithTech22

      Its a custom 10/22, probably Volquartsen.

  • All well and good to note that his practice was a bit odd, Nicholas, but did you go over to him and offer your assistance?

    Lots of gooney birds out there with guns, but lots of people who just don’t know what they don’t know.

    Another possibility is that he’s practicing for an optic failure.

  • Joshua

    um, judgmental much? course, this blog that seems to be the modus operandi
    maybe we’ve all had too much internet….

  • Don Ward

    Instead of being a passive-aggressive pr..k by anonymously taking pics of this guy, maybe Nicholas C’s “friend” could have struck up a conversation with the individual to see what was going on?

    Also, this attempt at shaming the shooter is pretty freaking low and I expect better.

  • Joe

    For every shooter that is in your category, and can actually safely shoot without sights, there are 10,000 that can barely shoot WITH sights.

  • Broz

    This reminds me of Basic ion ’71 (Ft Dix Jun-Aug ’71) and ‘Project Quick Kill’…our sights were blocked on our M16s with a length of 1/4 in balsa – taped between the front & rear sights…we ‘trained’ with BB guns, shooting at 5 in aluminum discs thrown by our drill sergeants.l..mostly it was ‘grab ass’ between the trainees and the drill sergeants on the way back from the rifle range…they ambushed along our route march with the BB gvns and we were given an ‘impromptu’ lesson in shooting without actually looking at or thru the sights…ariound the same time, Daisy came out with a civilian version of the Army project called “Project Quick Skill’

    • Tassiebush

      I remember reading about that. It’s an interesting concept

      • iksnilol

        Even used the same boxes, they just had an intern paint an S infront of the kill part.

    • CommonSense23

      Except Quick Kill was after basic marksmanship, which this guy seems lacking.

    • Bill

      I remember that also: they don’t do that anymore, do they?

  • Cameron Bissell

    it does look super awkward to drop your eyes down to the rail. i’ve never taped two mags together but i think it would be pretty awkward.

    • iksnilol

      Works quite well IMO, a nice way to keep more ammo on the gun itself. Done “correctly” it isn’t any more awkward or anything (in fact quicker to reload).

      Do it like on the picture. The gray is the magazines, the blue is the tape and the yellow(ish) are empty cases or whatever else you put between the mags to create distance. Doing it this way allows you to keep them oriented the same way. So when you reload you only drop the mag, move it 5-10 cm to the left (or right) and put it back in.

    • Bill

      SIG has rifle mags with built-in clips and sockets for stacking mags. It gets pretty awkward when you join 8 or 10.

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        Agreed. That SIG setup is pretty neat. I saw that on Mac’s YouTube channel. Two or at most three coupled mags as the starting configuration in an AR aren’t a bad alternative to a coffin, box, or drum magazine. But four or more is just stupid. Reminds me of the mall ninja AR from IV8888’s channel pictured here below.

        • Bill

          Somethings need to be done just because they can be done.

          • Hensley Beuron Garlington

            In the name of science!

  • Matt Frikin Bennett

    And rather than gim him advice/teach him, you take a picture of him like a frikin creep and post it online.

  • Uniform223
    • Kivaari

      Wasn’t that big guy a deputy sheriff shown in a gun mag a few years ago? He’s not suitable for the job. Having great equipment doesn’t add much to a team, if the fellow can’t walk a city block, let alone walk a country mile. I’ve been fat, and it impaired my ability to do a lot of things. If he goes down with a cardiac arrest, the other guys will split his gear. It’s a bit better than I can afford, or the department. Nice stuff.

    • me ohmy

      Meal Team Six…

  • Kivaari

    Some people hate getting advice, as they think they know everything already. Like the resting of the barrel on a crude rest, while trying to zero a hunting rifle. I simply suggested a person would have better luck if the fore end was on the rest, That AH was extremely pissed at hearing “Advice from you.”, meaning me. I doubt he ever got a decent group. That serves him well.

    • Tim Pearce

      Yes, and there are also people who are absolutely certain of the things they’re wrong about. I knew a guy that insisted that a bullet would, after about 200 yards, start going up. He was a customer, so I stopped trying to explain it, and let him believe it, rather than just endlessly argue with him.

      • Kivaari

        I had a customer that came back wanting a refund, the first business day after the season closed. He said his rifle was defective, because a bullet coming out of the muzzle dropped 7 inches and hit his truck. But it would get back on line to hit well at 100 yards. Well, we all know what happened, he shot his truck. I told him in no uncertain terms that he would not get a refund. I told him not to BS me. I then offered to buy the rifle back, and he was trilled. Why, do people say and do such stupid things?

        • Hensley Beuron Garlington

          LMBO. Was he this idiot that shot the roof of his own truck using it as a shooting bench? Very next thing there is bullet hole on top of his truck where his barrel is pointed and I’m sure it came out the front or even the windshield somewhere. LOL.

          • Kivaari

            You have it.

          • Bill

            Cover exercise: crawl under rear of cruiser directly under gas tank and engage targets. Lasted 2 shooters, after the second one put a hole in the fender.

            I’ve had plenty of stupid ideas, but this one wasn’t mine.

            Shooting out of cars and over hoods are cool only when you go through the McDonald’s drive-thru and the check-out girl at the cashier’s window and the guy on work release at the pickup window see 3/4 pound of brass on your windshield wipers.

        • AzureRaptor

          You should’ve offered to buy his truck at ~30% blue book because it was obviously defective, too. :]

      • MarkVShaney

        Coriolis effect. He wasn’t all together wrong- just 2000 instead of 200 yds.

      • Bill

        Were you on one of those rare downhill ranges that serve as ski jumps in the winter?

        • Ben

          Nah, the dude was just shooting upside-down.

  • Tassiebush

    That reminds me of when I was a little kid I didn’t actually understand what sights were. Basically did the same thing but it was a Winchester pump action in .22short. It worked okay at the close range I used it.

  • Nashvone

    The SHOT show hasn’t even been closed for a week and this is all you guys can come up with?

  • Jakes

    Hi, Kirsten Joy Weiss has a vídeo shooting a 10/22 using only the Weaver base. May be this guy was trying the same. Regards from Argentina.

  • Jim

    His shooting stance alone indicates that he might be a novice shooter. Hunched up shoulders, both knees bent, head down on a flat-top with no sights, shooting an off-balance gun (piggy-back mags do that) doesn’t make for very good accuracy, even at 5 yards as indicated by the range marker. Couldn’t wait for his sights to get in before he shoots his new rifle? Maybe.

    Regarding some of the previous comments, sight alignment vs. instinctive shooting has been an on-going argument probably since firearms have been invented. In-close, combat (CQB) shooting is usually pretty desperate stuff. You just don’t have time to get a good sight picture, breath control and trigger squeeze. You point and shoot fast to get the bad guy before he gets you. That’s where your training (good training) comes in to save you. Your weapon, whether it is your handgun, rifle or shotgun should be an extension of your arm(s). Under 15 yards, you shouldn’t have to look at your sights at all to hit a man-sized target. With practice, you should be able to do head shots at that distance with no sight picture.

    I have attended several specialty training schools taught by IDF personnel where they taped over our pistol and rifle sights for CQB. They emphasized looking at the threat, not at your sights, for in-close shooting. At distance, sure, use your sights for more accurate shot placement. With distance, you have the luxury of time. Also, in my experience, I have seen some people in training and real life operations take way too much time trying to line up their optics for a shot that should have been a point and shoot. I am also ‘old school’ on the dependence of these new electronic sighting systems (except for lasers). As an Israeli instructor once commented: “I am not going to depend on a battery to save my life.”

    • Bill

      Did those slow people get hits and win the fight?

  • me ohmy

    *waves hand* “you don’t want to miss the bullseye”
    (bullets) We don’t want to miss the bullseye
    *waves* these are not the unsighted bad posture methods you’re looking for”
    (bullets) we are not the unsighted bad postured bullets
    *waves hand again* “You are all going to move along now to a tight group”
    (bullets) move along now to a tight group

  • Jack Morris

    That’s the kind of attitude that grows the shooting sports! Good on you for being helpful. I used to shoot an AR with one scope ring on the receiver and one on the rails. Luckily, someone with a helpful attitude like yourself explained why it was problematic. Just for grins; here’s a pic of my old setup before I knew what I was doing.

  • Bruce

    Now I’m kind of curious, how much accuracy can I get by sighting down the rail? That’s all you really do with a shotgun….

  • Tim Pearce

    On the “we’re going to make new shooters do the same thing” mentality: we have a well-reasoned habit of posting safety rules all over the place. Things such as “always know your target and what is beyond it,” aren’t just a good idea. They’re things someone else learned the hard way, possibly with some pretty bad results.
    If we’re fine with helping people learn those lessons without them having to shoot themselves in the foot to learn it, why not other things?

  • Jeremy Star

    I generally avoid giving advice at the range as I have found everyone I speak to already knows everything. I’ve seen a bunch of people get mad about range employees trying to help them.

    Just last night:
    Guy could not figure out why his pistol was locked up hard. Turns out he was shooting .40 from a .45 pistol. It actually fired a handful of times before the expanded case locked the slide partially closed. He’s lucky his gun did not explode in his hands.

    Guy with an ACOG mounted right behind the BUIS…the FRONT BUIS. He was having a hard time seeing through the sight and complaining that it was an expensive piece of junk. His friend was trying to tell him that maybe he needed to mount it further back, but no. He wanted the scout configuration.

    • Sianmink

      I’da offered to buy the piece of junk off him.

      • Hensley Beuron Garlington

        Again, reinforcing why it is still a better idea to engage them in conversation. LOL.

  • Sianmink

    Also plugs only at an indoor range? Yikes.

    • Edeco

      Yep, not just that it’s questionably sufficient protection, I’d be worried about one flopping out. That’d be embarrassing and dangerous.

  • Bill

    She’s hyper-good, but what she doesn’t mention is consistency. If the weapon is mounted identically from shot to shot, check weld is identical, holding pressure is identical, trigger press is identical, and every other influence the shooter has over the gun is identical, shots will follow shots, sights or not. Of course, maintaining that level of consistency is what separates the typical shooter from her.

  • Sir TuberKopf

    The original “Aim Point” program in the US Army taught instinctive rifle shooting without sights. I know someone who was in the program, they are an evil good shot. They trained with BB guns to start. They became so good they could shoot an aspirin tossed into the air like skeet.

    • Bill

      Once again, if it was a great training tool, why’d they quit it?

      • Rock or Something

        Probable because the training took too long and was considered too expensive. Besides, the Army has better things to train about nowadays, like SHARP, EO or “Minority” Awareness of the month.

      • Sir TuberKopf

        It is a time consuming program and basic training is a balance of many skills. More advanced programs like Seals, Rangers etc still teach it in modified more modern programs.

  • Hallan

    No prayin, just sprayin.

  • Hensley Beuron Garlington

    BINGO! Good point, Sir. Lots of hypocrisy going on here.

  • Hensley Beuron Garlington

    I am.
    People being arrogant hypocrites and not bothering to help someone who may not know better.

  • Mountain

    What’s up you handsome hunk of DD?

    Thanks for being rational without coming across as a twa… jerk. It’s a challenge to give friendly advice at the range when you have the old white fat guy patrol being d-bags to everyone they can. I, personally, want to be left alone so I can enjoy my zen shooty time so I extend that to others around me. I have broken my own etiquette in an attempt to help others and I’ve had more successes than not. Most of those times others engaged me (not necessarily for pointers but because of suppressors, subgun, or other NFA goodies).

    Example: Relatively new shooter with a $5k .308 POF /[expensive optic of some sort] combo was throwing shots into the dirt at 300. He started chatting me up, he shot mine, I shot his, he got back on paper, and all was good.

    Example: A couple of range coaches were gossiping behind me about my “illegal” shotgun. I had electronic earpro (they didn’t, I suspect they didn’t know I could hear them) so I interrupted them to introduce myself and learn ’em on NFA goodies and let them shoot my SBS.

    I was fortunate when I was younger and had a ton of experienced shooters to lean on for help (if you consider enlisting as being fortunate). I had a scout sniper instructor buddy, an SOTG buddy, and good leadership to kick me when I f’ed up… I got kicked and smacked on the head a good amount but it go rid of bad habits.

    • Devil_Doc

      Handsome hunk of DD? I like it.. Let’s stick with that. Lol.. But, uh.. Do I know you?

    • Mikial

      @Mountain

      You are a man among men and I commend you for your attitude. I would be honored to shoot with you anytime and anyplace. If you’re ever in Virginia, let me know.

      I recall my first few USPSA meets and the highly experienced unlimited class shooter (also a retired pro baseball player) who took me under his wing and taught me more than I could have ever imagined I didn’t know about shooting.

      We have a responsibility to teach new shooters and to be decent about it. If we want to keep the 2A alive, we need to build the ranks every chance we get.

  • Cal S.

    Range guy be all like: “Don’t worry, I read about this drill on a survival blog somewhere.”

  • Sam

    Sure, I understand that. But everything about this picture screams “He doesn’t know what he’s doing.” to me. His stance. The mags taped together. How far he’s crushing his face down on the stock to get uh… ‘sight’ alignment.

    I guess I haven’t worded myself correctly throughout all of this, because people are getting pretty defensive about shooting guns with no sights. It just seems wreckless, imo. And as far as making fun of someone for doing it… nothing is above ridicule.

    • Mikial

      Fair enough.

  • Cymond

    I was planning to post the same link, but instead I’ll link one of her videos directly.
    https://youtu.be/YYpR-WKRA6I

  • Callum Davenport-Lambton

    Maybe he doesn’t know any better? When I saw a friend of mine having trouble with his scope I told him to go back to using iron sights. Then I noticed he wasn’t using his rear iron sight. As soon as I corrected him without making fun of him he was shooting nice groups.

  • tincankilla

    i did the same with my scope when i started out. i own lots of rifles, but I was totally new to the platform. frankly, i’m still way better with my big caliber platforms than i am with my poodle shooter.

  • Twilight sparkle

    Ohh you really got me good…

  • javierjuanmanuel

    Could it have been a friendly bet ?

  • Steve Gwilt

    Actually this is a unique perspective. I think we’ve all tried this, sight-less shooting of something or other. What if you ARE in a situation where a sight broke off and you had to keep shooting? I’m looking for guru opps and vids on this one.

  • Rand

    Been shooting without sights my whole life. 22’s mostly. Shotgun of course. But also 223 and 30-30. And of course a few pistols. 200 yards is average. You dont get MOA groups but deer size targets die. Tell me the difference between a deer shot withing one inch of target or 10 inches. What surprises me is that people seem to think different. I shot that way because thats all I had. At the range this guy is shooting they would all be dead center. Laugh if you want, I don’t need to prove anything to skeptics. I’m nearly 70 years old.

    • yellow__umbrella

      And you’re a commie! Always have been, always will be.

  • Sam Green

    I’d like to know how the writer of this article determine that this person WASN’T function testing his rifle. Instead of speculating, your friend could have politely asked him what was up.

    Furthermore, no matter what he was doing, just because he’s doing something that isn’t normal, as long as he’s doing whatever he’s doing in a safe manner, politely ask why & ask if he needs any help.

    When I go to indoor ranges and come across something like this, I’d offer to loan him a set of iron sights or a red dot or a scope. Whenever I go to an indoor range it’s generally to sight in and I generally always have enough parts and accessories to fix just about anything.

    Last time at a local range I came across a kid that just bought his AR, I noticed he was about to have a catastrophic failure. He had a managed to lodge a live cartridge into the barrel and the rim of the cartridge deformed and plunged into the barrel itself, he kept on charging it hard, further plunging the cartridge into the barrel, how it didn’t fire by the double stacked cartridges was fortunate. Range wouldn’t help him or give him a hammer, so I had to pound it out with a 6.8 PRI magazine and nearly broke my carbon fiber rod

  • Mike Lashewitz

    This may sound excessively lame but here goes. In a home defense situation, one does not have the time to get a perfect sight picture. Often one barely has time to think. One commenter made a very good observation regarding sights getting caught on clothing.
    So if you have never practiced shooting instinctively then you are either not thinking or have not had enough education regarding the subject.
    If you have not practiced enough shooting within the 21 foot range for home defense you are then, WELL behind the curve, as muscle memory is perhaps the most important thing in regards to home defense. Once a year shooting is not practice.

    You drive every day, some of us try to avoid pot holes. Our automobiles do not come with sights (though some people really seem to need them) however those of us concerned with wear and tear as roads are getting worse while tires are costing more. We learn instinctively how to put an 8 inch tire into that 9 inch gap between the pothole and the curb. We learn instinctively to do this one either side of the vehicle.
    If you can do that, then there is no excuse not to learn and be able to do the same with your weapon.
    Also, how many people here learned when they bought their first AR or “kit” that it usually did not come with sights? So for “another” $40 for a cheap pair of cheesy plastic sights you went to the range. Or you are a cheap ba$tard like most of us and decided to save up to buy a good pair. Then went to the range anyway.
    Just like when you buy a “kit” one would expect that kit to be complete. Then you learned that the “kit” needed a finished lower. AND you learned that you needed more tools and jigs to hold it while you assembled it.
    Remember when they sold trucks without bumpers? Talk about cheap…cheesy…

  • KEVIN BOWERS

    funny thing is, if he had a scope shooting at 20-25 yards people would still be making fun of him, I have tried shooting without sights, more to learn the point and shoot. I am not as accurate without sights as I am with them, but at 20-25 yards in a STF situation your just trying to hit the target and have very little time to line up your sights. I saw a video on a cowboy shooter that could hit anything within 50 yards from a hip shot (quick draw style), and nobody made fun of that guy. Nothing wrong with trying to learn how to shoot without the sights.

  • Mark Bertolet

    So, you’ve never tried “shooting from the hip”? Maybe he hasn’t decided on what optics to buy and is seeing how well he can do at this range/distance. He wasn’t shooting on your dime was he? No need to try and humiliate the guy on the internet. Recently I was breaking in a new SA M1A and didn’t care at all about accuracy, as I intend to install a scope and not use the iron sights, so for many shots I was leaving the gun in the cleaning stand and firing it. I wonder if some people thought I was trying out remote sighting or something. I had already verified the group size on the first few shots.

  • Jason Donovan

    I guess my question is, “WHY?” Not why is that person shooting without sights…but why didn’t someone simply ask him WTF he’s doing? Clearly he is a new shooter because most veteran shooters don’t tape mags at the range (mainly because we don’t want to be ‘that’ guy). I have corrected many odd habits at shooting ranges by others and I would have stopped this guy and asked him WTF he’s doing rather than shame him on the internet.

  • RickOAA .

    Before red dots became a regular thing sighting over irons at CQB distances was a common practice and quite effective.

  • Archie Montgomery

    The real questions are: Why is he doing this? and How well is he doing?

    There are those who have seriously worked at ‘point-shooting’ handguns and do rather well. Shotguns (as fowling pieces) are always ‘pointed’. So the young man may well be experimenting to determine the viability for him. As has been pointed out, it is fairly close range; depending on the goal in mind, this may be all the range needed. I can also see where the young man decides this really doesn’t work and now he knows.

    How well does it work? I find those who scorn certain methods and ignore the results are terribly short sighted. (No pun in intended.)

    And as Rob points out, he may have just wanted to shoot the arm, sights or not.

    I can remember ‘re-inventing the wheel’ several times and shooting a new gun just because I had yet to shoot it.

    Shooters of all people should let the facts guide them to a conclusion. That is how firearms function.

  • Kyle Danner

    In his defense, I would probably be doing the same. I can barely afford to buy that Tavor I want, but I haven’t because I definately can’t afford a $1000 scope.

    • Nicholas Chen

      But Tavors have built in irons that fold into o the top rail.

  • ClintTorres

    He has reticles etched onto his sunglasses…duh.

  • CountryBoy

    Even when testing function I equip my ARs with sights. I want to know where things are going, and how accurate the gun is “out of the box” or “off the bench”.

    To me that is PART of function testing, and it tells me a lot of things about the gun, especially if the shots are ending up significantly off from where I think I’m sending them.

  • Mikial

    Kirsten rules!

  • carlcasino

    I have read most of the posts and I have started to wonder.. Who ties your shoelaces for you or do you use Velcro ?

  • CavScout

    How is this outside the norm? Worrying more simply having the stuff and about looking cool than actually having any type of training?

    That said, he’s probably just too excited to shoot a new rifle than to care there aren’t any sights. And how can you tell he’s not function testing it? Any of us would still be trying to stay on paper, and even see how tight we could still group. On taping mags… no excuse, but just as mall ninja as most things you see these days. Like getting an AR and having no training and not seeking any.

  • kcshooter

    So the Kriss Vector guy likes to make fun of new shooters, rather than help out? Surprise, surprise. What a douche.

  • john j

    Did you see “lone Survivor”? If an AR OR ANY gun took that kind of punishment falling down mountains & cliffs Mag-Pul sites would not last. Would be smart to know if you can still kill at what ever is effective range even without sites. Can I hit a kill zone at 50, 100 yds OR run like the dickens and hope for the best . Just a thought.

    • lbeacham

      Best modern-era military special forces read to date. The book has it all. If it wasn’t true, nobody would believe it could be.

  • LV-426

    Next up with the new handgun purchase. CURVING BULLETS!

  • jim

    Nicolas, you ever hear of “point shooting”? it has its place.