This photo published in the Guardian shows President François Hollande visiting the Bataclan Theatre where terrorists killed 89 people and injured 200. A reader noticed the B&T MP9 machine pistol being used by the French ‘Secret Service’ officer (GSPR / Groupe de sécurité de la présidence de la République),

The B&T MP9 is sometimes referred to as a machine pistol and sometimes as a submachine gun. It sits in that grey area between machine pistol and submachine gun. My own opinion, having handled a few of them over the years, is that it is a machine pistol, at least in the configuration without a fixed foregrip such as the B&T MP9N.

The reader who sent this photo in said it reminded him of the famous photos taken of Secret Service Agent Robert Wanko, armed with an Uzi, after the assassination attempt on President Reagan (although the context is obviously quite different).

secret service uzi

Thanks Silas for sharing.

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  • TheSmellofNapalm

    I would feel a lot more confident with a caliber that would even remotely stand a chance against Type 3 armor. PDW rounds or 5.56 are arguably better choices for this role.

    • Gjert Klakeg Mulen

      Look up the rusdian 9x19mm 7N21 and 7N31 in the PP-2000, perfect.

      • mosinman

        while those rounds will perforate most soft body armor and lower level steel plates, i don’t think the BT-9 can utilize that ammo

    • I imagine in the next outward layer of security someone is using a more potent round.

    • The Bellman

      9mm +P FMJ fired from a relatively lengthy barrel like that will go through a lot of lower grade/poorly maintained armor.

      Nevermind the images above of there being other (less well dressed) gentlemen with the 5.56 and large quantities of buckshot somewhere on tap.

    • Kivaari

      I think they have some of the BB gun 4.6mm, with easy to punch through rounds.If a bomb is used – there is not much in the way a determined person can do it. It might come as a young girl hlding a baby. AND 10kg of Semtex.

    • John

      Who’s to say he’s not using actual metal-piercing bullets?

  • Azril @ Alex Vostox

    When they used the Kalashnikov-patttern shotgun back in 2015.

    • KestrelBike

      I’ve seen lots and lots of saiga shotguns at 3-gun competitions used by very competent and some perhaps not so competent shooters, all with an express interest in the guns running without hiccups.

      That said, barely a single stage goes by without those saigas choking and taking 5-10 seconds to clear the malfunction. Drum mags, box mags, etc. Maybe it’s bird shot v. buckshot rounds that make the difference in reliability.

      • Kelly Jackson

        It’s usually the junk magazines people use with them

      • Kivaari

        A Remington M870 usually works when the others fail. I don’t know of anyone that has a Saiga or Chicom copy that works. Same with the Benelli shotguns.

        • Giolli Joker

          Benellis same as Saigas or as 870s?
          (never heard complaints about Benelli shotguns reliability… aside Polenar guys trying to shoot 8 times in 2 seconds with an M3…)

          • Kivaari

            The M870 is hugely more reliable than either of the three Benellis I owned. I would not buy either Saigas or Benellis. I want a shotgun that works. Hell, a Mossberg 590 is superior to the Italian, Russian or Chinese junk.

          • Giolli Joker

            Do you include Benelli pump shotguns or are you simply saying that a pump shotgun is more reliable than a semi-auto?

          • Kivaari

            Yes. I had two of the M121 M1 semi-autos and a Nova pump. The only time I was able to fire 25 rounds without a stoppage in the M121 was with the cheapest birdshot. Neither could empty a magazine load of buck shot or slugs reliably. I asked the HK factory representative about it in a face to face meeting. Since others were present he leaned over and said “They don’t work”. The Nova had to be rammed butt to ground to get a fired case out. It would often rip a hole through the rim. I contacted Beretta (the maker and importer) and sent a box of cases with tears to them. They never responded to either letter. I have exceptionally poor customer service from Beretta over the last 30 years. The semi-auto shotguns were being imported under the HK logo at the time. I had been interested in doing a magazine article about the Nova, but it likely would not have made it into print. One must not tell the truth in many articles out of fear of losing advertising dollars. I had done testing of a tactical vest that ripped it (figuratively) and the factory rep. called me and pleaded for me to not have it published. His name was Howard Johnson (like the hotels) so I’ve remembered him all these years later. He said everything I had said was wrong with the vest was true, it would just destroy sales if the truth were to be known. That was the last time I wrote anything for that magazine. The editor had sent me a letter saying they were “going to go in a different direction”. Cowards.

          • Giolli Joker

            First of all thanks for the detailed reply.
            Regarding the M1… well, it’s no longer in production unlike M2, M3, M4… maybe you just highlighted the reason.
            The M2, its evolution if I’m correct, seems to be well regarded both in hunting and in practical shooting competitions, I’d assume that it’s more reliable than the M1 you owned.
            The Nova’s issues surprise me more, never heard of it being finicky or else (I’m not talking about magazine reviews but users’ reports). I’ve also read it feeds super short shells (mini-shells) where actually the unmodified 870 fails.
            Maybe you got a lemon or a sample from the first batches?
            Sure I understand that after a couple of negative experiences it would be hard to trust a particular brand.
            Just a minor correction: Beretta is not the maker of Benelli shotguns. The Beretta Holding owns Benelli Armi, but the two companies are separate entities located in 2 different Italian regions. Sure sometimes they share some platforms (Beretta RX4 that is actually Benelli MR1, for example). I think there’s now Benelli U.S.A. as American dealer, I have no idea about their customer service, though.

          • Kivaari

            When I took the Nova back to the dealer he commented that every short barrel model failed. The long barrel “sport model” functioned fine. An odd thing about the Nova it was the first shotgun I had with two serial numbers. The frame carried its number and the barrel another. Not just a fluke, as the guns the dealer had all showed a double labeling. Beretta pretty much owns or has considerable shares in most gun makers as far as I can tell. It seemed that every gun company that had financial issues was consumed by Beretta.
            Another issue with the Nova that I think has not been addressed is the stock is overly long for a general issue police/military weapon. The one piece molded plastic, a good idea, only has the butt pad held on by friction. There is a hollow cavity under it. So they cant be reasonably shortened as there is no place to attach screws. In that time period Mossberg didn’t offer short stocks. If the gun was for issue to people 5’3″ to 6’5″ with or without body armor, it fit only the big guys. Every Mossberg we had to buy a short stock or cut them. Not an issue for individuals that have one gun, but of consideration to agencies and armies.
            Mossberg let me down several years ago. Not a big thing to them nationwide. We had an officer drown during a rescue. The firemen asked me about getting a line throwing gun., as they said they could have gotten to him had they had one. Mossberg sold one. I bought it and gave it first to the PD. The chief was pissed. It wasn’t in his protocol. The FD said it was in theirs. So I gave it to them. The PD chief was still pissed. So I gave it to a fast water rescue team. I had told them I would provide supplies as long as they needed them. Then Mossberg dropped the gun and supplies. I still don’t know where to buy supplies, and 15 years later I guess it doesn’t matter. I just feel a company should at least know where to send the users that have a real need for gear to support the use. They weren’t alone. S&W made a line gun. We bought one and after the first use it spit the rocket out 25 feet. At $100 per shot it was an Oh crap moment. Within a year we couldn’t buy replacements. I guess that’s way off track. It just reminded me of some of the crap that goes on and gun companies having a deaf ear to customers.

          • Giolli Joker

            Double S/Ns aren’t uncommon in countries (as Italy) where barrels are controlled items. Having S/N on receiver and barrel allows you to buy barrels of different lengths and have them included in your declaration of ownership to the authorities (there’s no limitation on the number as the gun itself is still only one).
            My MaTeBa as well, having the availability of several barrel lengths, carries double serial numbers.

          • Kivaari

            I guess that makes sense to Europeans. I never liked having other barrels for guns, as I always liked having another complete gun.

          • valorius

            Ive had the exact opposite experience he did. I had 3 variations of the Benelli M1 and they all worked flawlessly.

          • valorius

            I had a beretta 1200FP, a 1201FP and a Benelli M1Super90, all worked completely flawlessly.

          • Kivaari

            I owned several Beretta pistols that worked. Just not shotguns.

          • valorius

            The 1200FP and 1201FP are license built Benelli M1 clones. They were very popular police shotguns, very, very light.

          • Kivaari

            If they work now that’s fine. I wont buy any of them. Had Benelli and Beretta done a better job with customer service I would have considered doing so again. But they consistently failed to adequately assist too many people.

          • valorius

            I never needed any customer service on any of them. So i honestly wouldn’t know.

          • Core

            Politics and capitalism. Makes it difficult to lead a moral living. You did the right thing, you can’t buy that kind of integrity. It seems like anytime you make a critical observation about a product these days people assume you are a troll or anti. Most of the new products are junk until they evolve a few generations. I worked production and we knew every issue our products had before we got them to market. Customer feedback was critical to success. A good company will humbly accept critical observations with sincere appreciation. I don’t expect anything to be perfect, and I don’t like dealing with companies that refuse to accept and handle criticism.

          • Kivaari

            About 30 years ago we were talked into buying a bunch of Simmons scopes. At the time I think it was $10-20,00 for them. The guarantee was great. Great every scope that wenrt out the door, then came back in for “fogging”. A weekly sporting newspaper reporter called. This was with in a week of arrival. He was looking for a puff piece and I told him of all the problems and I don’t want serious hunter buying them. The Simmons factory rep came by madder than hell at for me for ruining the article. I showed him how they were used on the Quinault Ridge Weather like Northern Montana and Idaho. We put them in a freezer than into warm water (like hiking for an hour then getting in a war truck. They failed. That rep never came buy. I found I hated to lie to customers.So I told them the truth. There are exception, I sold a 15x Simmons target scope for $50. The next day Kino shimmed it with pop bottle plastic and won the 1000 yd contest. Go figure, a few good ones got through. I’ve been in the gun business for 45~ years, either as a writer, gun store clerk, police officer – instructor. Tell the people junk at any price is morally wrong

      • Patriot Gunner

        The only saiga based shotgun that I’ve had any luck with is one that is completely reworked by Tromix and that came at a hefty price tag. Funny how in 7.62×39 or 5.45 flavor the AK runs flawless, but in 12 ga it is an absolute abomination.

    • Swiss

      Those are usually loaded with slugs in order to stop eventual suicide car engine block, think about it like thoses .45 to .50 chamberings for the AR….
      Semi auto vepr/saiga can cycle almost reliably on slugs as long as you keep with OAL and correct brass lenght :
      box fed semi autos tend to be jam machines because the plastic wad+shot is way to soft compared to a crimped lead bullet, spring tension and feeding can deform it. Thus leading to jam the upward feeding and chambering motion, that’s why you still use underbarrel tube mags on shotties…
      if you can keep the front head of the shell round (brenneke/sauvestre/diabolo slug)
      keep brass end into the specs of your chamber
      and keep the overal lenght of the fired hull into the specs of said chamber
      You are good to go
      regards,
      an akdal 1919 owner

      • KestrelBike

        Cool, thx for the info!

      • JumpIf NotZero

        box fed semi autos tend to be jam machines because the plastic wad+shot
        is way to soft compared to a crimped lead bullet, spring tension and
        feeding can deform it. Thus leading to jam the upward feeding and
        chambering motion, that’s why you still use underbarrel tube mags on
        shotties…

        Entirely obvious when you take a Siaga mag that’s been loaded for weeks, pop the shells out and they’re all oval. Well… The chamber is NOT oval.

        This is 3/4 the reason I sold my Saiga and won’t ever go back to one. Shells don’t work in box mags.

      • Anon. E Maus

        It all depends.
        Vepr shotguns seem much better overall.

  • Azril @ Alex Vostox

    This guy already got meme’d just a few hours after the visit. Thanks internet!

  • JumpIf NotZero

    is that it is a machine pistol

    Owned a TP9 SBR. They are definitely pistols first and foremost. As an actual pistol they’re terrible, but yea, machine pistol is correct. I actually really hated mine and sold it. They’re just too gassy suppressed and not, way too complex an action with the rotating barrel/bolt, just too expensive and delicate.

    Not terribly surprised to see one in this role though. Seems fair as a PDW.

    • The one he’s got is not the semi-automatic TP9. It’s a full-automatic MP9 version.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Yea… That’s painfully obvious even if I didn’t own one. The only body difference is the integrated grip. I can’t see if this is the new version with the non-cross bolt safety but doesn’t really matter.

    • mosinman

      “As an actual pistol they’re terrible”

      Doesn’t that generally go for any SMG turned semi auto pistol?

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Fair enough. Just a comment about the uselessness of it in a pistol form.

        • mosinman

          yeah i tend to agree

  • He is protected with a full-automatic weapon while he works to strip not just French citizens, but all Europeans of their MSRs.

    • Esh325

      What are you talking about?

      • Zachary marrs

        Hes talking about how the french president is anti gun

      • Kivaari

        Europe is on the verge of disarming everyone except terrorists and cops.

        • Giolli Joker

          You forgot normal criminals… nobody is taking away their guns.

          • Kivaari

            So true.

  • Phillip Cooper

    Someone want to tell me why TFB is now approving posts?

    • Phillip Cooper

      By which I mean:

      • USMC03Vet

        It’s because you finally hit cool kid status. You aren’t the only one.

      • Tassiebush

        I think there’s a filter of sorts geared to potential profanity that puts it up for approval. I’ve triggered it myself a few times and that was the only thing different to usual.

        • Phillip Cooper

          Winner, winner. Chicken dinner.
          Nice catch!

      • Giolli Joker

        I think that the surname of that guy triggers some filters… quite funny indeed! 🙂

  • USMC03Vet

    I knew that looked like a TMP. Looked it up and it is!

  • Kivaari

    The guns and gear are pretty good models in conventional ammunition. with conventional communications gear in double the recommended, Carry spare flashlights of high quality. At least 1 full sized service pistol and a back up. Make the principal to shoot and wear body armor. Let the locals keep back the adoring fans while a determined attacker will have to show through people to come into view. It should be noticible. pressure wave. This is where an HK MP7 bb gun round comes into use. More people with more Kevlar. Even more stylish hates with a combination of style and performance. No sure things will work, but you have to try.

  • Peewee Sierrafour

    How large is that beast? That smg is easily the size of an uzi and it looks like a glock 19 in his paws.

    • Shanghaied

      Hollande is like 1.7m, so the Mountain there is easily 2m.

      • KestrelBike

        haha no joke. It may just be the angle, but he’s even taller than the guy behind him wearing the dark Kepi.

    • Precious Roy

      I was guessing about 6’8 from Hollande looking like a 3rd grader behind him.

  • Tritro29

    Let’s say that this is an “all parties” job, not much to do with the real anti-gun posture of Europeans (which is far more understandable and has less to do with a typically American debate).

    Also it’s funny how guns don’t kill people, but guns “protect” people on their own, like Cybernetic entities. Nope friend, it’s well trained, military people that protect Flamby, with guns. I kid, I kid.

    I agree with your plea, and it’s becoming laughable how these f*cks are pulling the rug from you guys, but hey, we’re not better served (Rasha). And I stand confident that Suomi will stop this heresy.

    Looks like C******* is coming back.

    Who needs a PolitBuro when you have the European Comission.

  • Peter

    The MP9-N or TP9-N are the newer versions with the mp5 kind of safety and the firing pin safety. It has nothing to do with the fixed foregrip.
    But there is an article about the MP9-N and the differences on thefirearmblog 🙂

  • datimes

    Wait a second. For forty years I have been bombarded with the narrative that guns kill people. Does this guy shoot the President in the next few frames?

  • Dan

    How is that going to stop something like what happened? Did the terrorists get their weapons from someone who possessed them legally? Is it going to stop them from making suicide vests and throwing explosives into a crowd? I did’t read the whole plan and I don’t know what explosives the terrorists used to throw in the crowd be it homemade or actual grenades. I see a whole lot of freak out and knee jerk reaction on a feel good proposal that could end up causing people to feel complacent thinking they solved the problem. If I were smuggling guns the ease at which Europeans move across borders would be a god send. I see it as politicians thinking we got guns out of the bad guys hands and a week later a truck bomb detonates in a crowd. Timothy McVeigh killed roughly the same amount of people without firing a shot. That proposal does nothing to strike at the heart of the problem.

    • It can’t, and as a matter of fact it wouldn’t. But they aren’t interested in stopping terrorism.

      They are just taking the death of 130 innocents slaughtered by illegal full-autos and hand grenades as an excuse to impose British-style gun control in Europe.

      • Dan

        That will work out well for them.

  • Giolli Joker

    Extremely cool but quite unlikely.

  • Giolli Joker

    From:
    “Fun with Flags with Sheldon Cooper”
    to:
    “Fun with Filters with Phillip Cooper”

    It sounds good.

    • Phillip Cooper

      Who’s Sheldon Cooper?
      Obviously a johnny-come-lately, poser of a Cooper…

  • Tassiebush

    well that test was successful. I certainly didn’t get that notification till well after you wrote it! I feel a bit for the poor moderator having to approve comments because someone mentions that their rifle c0cks on closing! Hopefully my use of a zero will spare them the task. (apologies in advance)

  • The Forty ‘Twa

    What is with all the parts in bold? It kind of defeats the purpose of doing it when half the article is in bold.

    • Highlights the critical parts for those who are too lazy to read it all.

      • The Forty ‘Twa

        If you read all the critical parts you’ve still read most of the article because you’ve overused it! Less is more as they say.

        • Dude, with all due respect? I got a degree in journalism and have been doing this work for ten years now. It’s not like I should be lecturing you and not the other way around… only it is.

          With all those parts in bold, you get those who’ll just scroll down the pages very fast to get the point.

  • No stock, it’s a machine pistol. Stock, and it’s a submachine gun.

  • Tim C.

    The bigger point not being made is that if the people of France had been “allowed” to protect themselves with firearms, the Presidential visit would not have been needed. 89 dead and 200 injured in one GUN FREE location. But hey the Pres. has his bodyguards so let the people just call for help.

  • Kivaari

    If you need a short barrel shotgun, buy Remington Model 870 POLICE. They have aluminum trigger groups. Each of our patrol cars had either an MP5 or M4 as well as a .22 rifle fire. Plus 2 handguns. We could handle most.

  • Anon. E Maus

    It’s nice to see the MP9 get some appreciation.
    Are B&T selling pistol variants of it in the US yet?