Polish MSBS 5.56mm Rifle

It has been over two years since I last wrote about the Polish MSBS 5.56mm rifle so I was excited to receive photos of the lastest version from a Polish PR firm. The MSBS-5,56 rifle is was developed by Fabryka Broni Lucznik and the Military University of Technology to replace the Polish Beryl rifle.

The newest version of this gun differs from the earlier prototype in a number of ways. The forend no longer has a quad rail (although the quad rail could still be an option) but instead has a handguard with slots to screw in short accessory rails. The proprietary flashhider has been replaced with a standard M16 birdcage-style flashhider. The earlier prototypes were displayed with PMAG magazines but it is now being shown with transparent magazines.

I really like this ergonomic “bullpup” grenade launcher design.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • MacK

    I wonder who gave the Poles the masada tech package? Or in todays PC world, who says concurrent evolution cant happen in guns… LOL

    • Avery

      A little of both. They had been developing the MSBS for a few years now, back when it looked a bit like a boxy SCAR or C805 Bren, but I believe they either had help from Magpul and/or exposure to the ACR, with some of their special forces fielding the gun currently. The rifle and its bullpup equivalent (which I’m not sure if they’ve dropped or not from the dev process) are much more streamlined than the initial prototypes.

  • Down&OutInCA

    Reminds me of a hodgepodge of different rifles. Lower receiver/trigger pack looks like it’s off a G3, a SCAR gave its stock up, an ACR gave it the fore-end.

  • JMD

    The magazines in the photos look like Lancer L5 AWMs.

    • jun0

      because it is Lance L5

  • Ben C

    The bullpup grenade launcher has a similar issue to bullpup rifles. Important parts of the operator in extremely close proximity to the chamber. To use the m203, the firer should hold the firing hand on the magazine and the other on the regular pistol grip, no hand around the launcher just in case something goes wrong with either the propellant or the projectile.

    Wrapping your hand around the chamber makes sure the operator loses the whole hand instead of picking shrapnel out of it when something goes wrong.

    • Tinkerer

      In all my long years on this blue Earth, I have yet to see, hear or read about a single case of a bullpup rifle suffering a catastrophic failure that would lead to injuries worse than those possible on a regular rifle. Maybe you can tell us of the cases you know about?

      • SKSlover

        bulpup RIFLE. a grenade launch makes way more of a bang.

      • Ben C

        Thank you for ignoring the majority of my comment in order to make some completely irrelevant remarks about bullpup rifles instead of the grenade launcher in this post. Feel free to wrap your hand around the chamber of that grenade launcher if you like. I’ll pass and keep my hands.

      • Tinkerer

        Ben C, allow me to quote from your own post:

        “The bullpup grenade launcher has a similar issue to bullpup rifles. Important parts of the operator in extremely close proximity to the chamber.”

        See where you mention “Bullpup Rifles”?

        About the grenade launcher: the 40mm grenade, as stated in other posts, is of the low pressure variety. The chance of catastrophic failure due to overpressure of the propellant charge is negligible -because that’s how the 40 mm grenade was designed. Now, if you mean about the payload igniting and exploding inside the barrel: I seriously doubdt that it would matter where you put your hand in case of explosion of the payload. You’d be dead regardless.

    • El Jefe

      Aren’t 40mm grenades supposed to arm only after travelling a certain distance? Besides, if one of those blows that close to your body, I doubt it matters much where you’ve placed your hand.

  • sks2000

    looks like an enlarged version of the new CZ scorpion evo 3

  • ghoststan

    looks like acr

  • Sam

    Are we gonna get to see a semi version?

  • Nick

    For what it’s worth, most of the early photos of this weapon featured the Oberland Arms G-MAG, not the Magpul PMAG. The two magazines look almost identical, but only a few photos feature a real Magpul PMAG.

  • higgs

    best looking new rifle out there. cant wait to see the bullpup shooting.

  • Lance

    Like it it replaces the problem prone Beryle. Looks like the Remington ACR has lot of influence in the design. Good looking rifle.

    • Anonymoose

      I just hope it doesn’t have the problems the ACR has. :I

  • Lemming

    Meh. . What can this thing do that the literally dozens of other 5.56 rifles on the market can’t?

    • higgs

      How many other rifles on the market can be switched to bullpup?

      • ducky

        Can this latest version still be switched to bullpup configuration?
        Theoretically possible but previous versions had a slightly different receiver design due to this feature. And why not showing the bullpup…

      • Avery

        I like the convertible concept, but the last time I looked, the receivers looked completely different from each other that I’m doubting that the bullpup conversion will ever be fielded. Granted, most of the internals are the same, but when the selling point was high-degree of parts compatibility and two major portions of the gun look completely different from one another, it calls into question that compatibility.

        If they were going to continue along those lines, at least the uppers would have remained unchanged. That was the initial goal of the project. It makes me think that they just got to a point in MSBS development is that the convertibility became unfeasible without making the weapon cumbersome.

      • Avery

        Actually, I’ve been thinking about it and it may still be possible for the MSBS to retain it’s convertibility if the upper receiver was built into a main receiver unit and a handguard extension. That way the main receiver unit has space for the fire controls of the bullpup lower, allowing for better compatibility between conventional carbine and bullpup. That brings down the number of incompatible parts to just the lowers. Although I suspect that a bullpup specific upper may still be produced, the conventional carbine sans the handguard piece could be used in to save on logistics or in an emergency.

        And, just as I thought that, I looked more closely at the pictures posted and it does look like the MSBS-5,56 does have a two-part upper receiver, so there may still be a bullpup conversion planned.

  • nick

    That grenade launcher looks realy cool

    • magpul fan

      And that’s the only interesing thing from this so-called new platform… apart from stole many magpul ideas…

  • Reverend Clint

    Looks like a magpul handguard and rail

  • mechamaster

    It’s a little weird left hand position to shoot the ‘bullpup’ grenade launcher.

  • hikerguy

    It is a very nice looking rifle. Yes, it does seem to be similar to the SCAR and ACR designs, but I guess there are only so many ways you can vary how an assault rifle looks.
    I remember a post from a month or two back concerning whether or not a Polish Special Forces group was using what appeared to be ACRs. I know it was not this carbine, but wonder (If they actually were Polish) if they were testing the ACR to see if there would be an interest in a similar Polish design.

  • pimpmypong

    ACR is a piece of crap, this is the RIFLE

    • magpul fan

      And can you give more detail about your super detailled statement ? because it seem like that some ar15.com jizzed in their pant’s !

    • ahhpeople

      People will always complaint w/e new rifle comes out they r focused on finding similiarities instead of admire a new weapon , when cz805 came out SCAR lovers said it’s scar copy, now MSBS came out it’s ACR copy(wich is diffrent weapon for me, only overal shape reminds of it a bit). People stop acting like f…king kidos that argue wich toy is better.

  • magpul fan

    Honestly i don’t really what potential and that is aside from having the conventional to bullpup (and vice versa) layout, it’s not for making my fanboy (even if i’m very much one of them) but since it’s a reverse engineering of the magpul masada bushmaster/remington acr, it don’t offer anything new on the table aside from what a said earlier in this post and the fact of the ambi ejection, the bushmaster/remington acr does pretty much the same job ( and probably better), good luck for them but i don’t see any chance.

    • krysten

      my pal used to have fun with massoud, he said it’s bad quality weapon, and only way it looks makes it worth anything.

      • magpul fan

        Hahaha really ? so does you pal does have some good connection with magpul so far to let him to play the massoud rifle ? i seriously doubt it since the very same rifle was put on the shelve (including all the prototype) and so far the last time it was fired was back in 2010.

        So your argument is false, fail for you.

  • Funny thing this *is* *not* the MSBS-5,56 rifle, but the completly new system, a MSBS-5,56 derivative 😉

    • ed-ed

      So, can you explain what’s exactly in the pictures?

      • The example of standard assault rifle from the new modular firearm system from the Fabryka Broni Radom, which is derivative of the MSBS-5,56 programme (2007-2011), but it is not the MSBS-5,56. The weapon itself is completly different externally and internally from the technology demonstrators of the MSBS-5,56 programme.

        The new firearms system is developed as a part of the Polish individual battlesystem Tytan i.e. Polish future soldier. The new assault rifle with 40mm grenade launcher is planned to be the Tytan soldier standard weapon.

    • Fenrir

      REMOV, thanks for the intriguing hits! you are making me curious.

      I have been following this rifle where I can from the first press release, as a bullpup junkie it really got my attention for being able to do both. Do you know if this new derivative is still convertible between layouts?

      • Sure, the idea is still the same – the common upper receiver for assault rifle in the classic and the bullpup design. The classic design assault rifle with underbarrel grenade launcher is just a first step of developement of the whole rifle family.

    • Mike

      So, in short:
      This is a new project, based on what the original MSBS accomplished. Right?
      Also, any idea how long it’ll be before it enters production?

      • The first production batch of the new assault rifles is planned in 2014.

  • Jasta

    I hope that this weapon will turn out to be something like Vis pistol: having no groundbreaking innovations, derived from classical design, but, due to cumulation of minor improvements and lack of known minor disadvantages of earlier designs, as well as to overall robustness and reliability, being one of the best of it’s class (or maybe even a definitive classical assault rifle, nec plus ultra).

  • magpul fan

    Haha… how pathetic some peoples would be on this blog they give me a thump down because of my name really pathetic…

    Too lazy to writte heh ?

    • adicction

      nah it’s just because of u’r stupidity, and theres even an adage ‘never discuss with an idiot’

    • 6677

      How about bad grammar (hideously infact) and general fanboyism, neither go down too well. Just how things roll here I guess.

      • magpul fan

        how about to fuck yourself pal ?

        you think it’s normal when a compagny like magpul come up with great ideas there alway some prick that stole their ideas (remember strike industrie ?)

        adicction, go buy some generic bcm ar-15 rifle and let the adult talk you damn kid !

        other than that THUMB DOWN !

  • arigatoooo

    Shush guys, u want to know what my bf who is serving i Polish SF said about ACR when he first used it “it’s better too throw with it to an oponnent than shoot it” it’s mine translation so i dont know if i made mistake, correct me if so 🙂

  • Chris

    Hi Guys.
    One comment to all comments below – why u are arguing so much about the look of the guna and its similarites to other guns? it is a GUN so its notmal its looking similar to other guns. The thing that matters is performance and quality not the design.
    I’m Polish and i’m really waiting 4 this gun to come out officialy – only the testing in the real field can veryfy how much this gun is really worth.
    cheers

    • jackarse

      because magpull fanboys have real butthurt, thats why my friend

  • MacK

    Perhaps you didnt get the joke.

  • Denny

    Just ‘visually’ speaking, there are couple of items which I consider positives. One immediately noticeble is gas block being inside of hand guard. This is very important since gas block, due to diversion of gas gets the hottest. Purpose of handguard is to “guard the hand”.

    Next good thing is to see charging handle in right place (as opposed to recently discussed HK406 for French army). In addition, it appears to be both-sided. Very good thinking. And yes, it should be for case of practicality moving with bolt. It makes for quiet and positive action closing.

    As the third praisable item I see lack of any undue ‘sissiness’ so abundant on many western rifles. Of course we did not see performance and modularity aspects yet (the gr. launcher look well integrated though). I assume these are prototypes and so it is hard to comment on workmanship.

    • Eric

      Sissiness? Can you elaborate?

      • Denny

        Sissines is onsideration of items aimed for soldier’s ‘comfort’ such as fancy grips, stocks, hanguards, heatshields and so on. I do recognize prevalent nature of crowd on this blog and its inclination, but the real purpose of rifle is one – efficient incapacitating tool. Proper design needs to be subjected solely to this purpose. Comfort is unfit notion and it induces thought of commercialization, at least in my mind. This is overspill from all we live and do (the majority does) in civilian sphere, in broadest spectre. There needs to be divide between these two.

      • Tinkerer

        Denny, a weapon with good ergonomics will help it’s user. See, ergonomics are a most important part of making an “efficient incapacitating tool”.

      • Denny

        To Tinkerer: yes, but up to point. Ergonomics is one thing, “soldier comfort” and “commercial attractivness” is something else. To make myself clear: military weapon is NOT and should NOT intended to be a commercial item. That is at least in traditional sense. Of course I know well that reality is different. I could go further, but do not see sufficient motivation at this time. And from that standpoint I naturally part with view of many who gave me thumbs down. That is perfectly understood, it proves my view to be correct. You may have noticed this trait is with me and for that reason I very rarely comment on this topic. This is exception and it was originally aimed to praise new Polish product.

      • Tinkerer

        Denny, “Soldier Comfort” is an integral part of ergonomics. It’s as simple as that. A good weapon has to be ergonomic, which includes being comfortable to use.

  • Ian

    Oh, another AR-18 derivative retaining the same feed and extraction problems as the rest? Sign me up…

  • Bob Z Moose

    Hey, you got ACR in my SCAR! You got SCAR in my ACR! Two great tastes that taste great together?

    • Kav

      I love arnold palmers.

  • Mack Hughes

    Good to see this coming along, It really used to look like the SCAR but has definitely changed for the ACR. Small world. Anyhow, I think it will be a great weapon system, but you should absolutely never ever put your hand around the launcher barrel. That AFG on the launcher will be dropped most definitely but all other things look ready.

    • Chase

      Why shouldn’t you put your hand around the barrel of a 40mm grenade launcher?

  • Munkfish

    The magazine looks like the Lancer L5. I’ve got 5 of them and they seem to work great. They bend before breaking, and the steel feed lips seem like a good idea.

  • PCP

    Interesting rifle looks wise; the “bullpup” grenade launcher is a quite cleaver ergonomic solution, quite better than a conventional or FNH layout and it also seems to provide a decent grip as well. The only problem I see is the integrated pistol grip… but that is just a personal quirk.

    • charles222

      That is one cool grenade launcher. Like the rifle’s looks as well, although the stock is practically the one from the XM8, modified to fold.

      • PCP

        Except for the ajustable cheek rest, which actually looks better than the ones from the SCAR and ACR.

        I am still not sold on the screw-on rails and handguard; I know that if properly made and installed they will be as a monolithic quad-rail and that the 3, 6 and 9 hours rails aren’t really used for anything critical as a the upper rails, but I still don’t like them.

    • charles222

      side rails are at least as important-tac light is going to get used quite abit more than laser or even your optics, in my experience.

  • D

    Oh man, another 5.56 rifle!? What a tremendous innovation this is.

    • Anonymoose

      They’re researching a 7.62 NATO version for DM/sniper-use too. Also, don’t hate on 5.56. It’s great for killing people and things at most reasonable ranges, and Poland’s current service rifle is basically just an AK-101 knock-off.

    • Mat

      Considering US armed forces are unable to field a new homegrown firearm since intrduction of M16/M4 family(all other firearms introduced are european M9,M240,SAW,MP9,FN90,IAR27,HK416,XM8 and the list goes on).

      • charles222

        No US-developed small arms since the M16, huh? You mean, besides the:

        -M203
        -XM25
        -MK13
        -M82A1
        -XM26
        -M24
        -M2010
        -M40
        -M85
        -M79

    • Esh325

      NATO encourages their members to use 5.56×45 rifles.

    • Nadnerbus

      You realize the caliber is just an a part of the NATO agreement, and has little to do with the rest of the innovation of a new rifle right? No doubt this weapon can be chambered in other calibers should the need or desire arise.

      I personally think it is pretty sexy, and if it succeeds where the ACR has failed so badly, then that is oustanding.

    • W

      why wouldnt it be 5.56?

      adopting a NATO standard cartridge is better than reinventing the wheel.

  • nobody

    I don’t see anything bad about holding on to the grenade launcher in that way. I have heard that you aren’t supposed to do that with 37mm launchers but they operate similar to other guns while 40mm launchers use the high/low pressure system that keeps the pressure inside the barrel at a minimum (so low that the m79 “thumper” barrel was actually made out of aluminum and I have heard about another company experimenting with making the barrels entirely out of polymer) and drops to almost zero by the time the grenade actually leaves the case.

  • Looks like he’d have a hard time aiming in that picture with the grenade launcher.

    • Nadnerbus

      lol I didn’t notice that. Rear sights are for p*ssies!

  • Jeff

    It might just be me, but this is the first time hearing about a source of higher education developing a firearm….
    It’s usually been an individual or government endeavor

    • RedRalph!

      The best firearms in history were developed by an individual or Government source. What uneducated or underdeveloped designs do you speak of?

      • Jake Barnes

        I didn’t see him refer to any “uneducated or underdeveloped” designs. He was just stating that it was interested that this rifle was developed by a source of higher education, which it is rather.

  • dave

    This looks really cool. If they released a semi-auto version in the United States and it wasn’t too expensive, I would definitely buy it.

    • Mike

      Judging from how Polish gun companies sell their products on the civilian market (like that civilian Beryl recently or Radom Hunter rifle earlier), sooner or later they’ll whip up a civilian version of this baby as well. Maybe with a fixed stock.
      However, I don’t expect this happening in the next four years or so.

  • mosinman

    is nice to hear of a country making thier own rifle and not doing what everyone else does and make a m-16/ak opy or buy something from Hk or FN

    • Joe Questionable

      But it is an AK. 😉

  • Esh325

    What was wrong with the Beryl rifle?

    • Brandon

      It’s old, and Poland probably wants something modern like the rest of NATO

      • Esh325

        The M4 and HK416 are “old”. They are based off of 55 and 40 year old designs. I prefer the term “obsolete” or “outdated”.

  • Brandon

    That grenade launcher is pretty nifty, looks like it mated with an AFG.
    Why the removal of quad rails and proprietary flash suppressor? Cost cutting?

    • R

      No. It’s actually very smart. You can put those rails and attachments where you want them so that makes whole design very lightweight.

  • Heckler und Kock nuts

    Wow that thing look almost like an g36c…

    it’s amazing how contry inferior to germany and use copy everything ! and that’s make me laught a lots, not even a single imagination, just some reverse-engineering of american and german technology.

    next time it’s what ? an reverse engineered g11 ? or an p30 ???

    you damn polack should have buy some g36 instead very reliable and it does not melt for an polymer gun (german engineering inside !).

    other than that i hope that your turd will you very unreliable !

    • milo

      like a G36C? how so? i think it looks close to a remington ACR. the internals are designed differently however, the externals were designed by a different set of people, besides i dont see any ACR bullpups. so go sit in your mud puddle kid if you’re gunna call a country crap for trying something new.

    • Reverend Clint

      besides the grip it looks nothing like a g36

  • Mike Knox

    It’s like some surprise for sleeping around in europe the year before, except it’s for the Remmington ACR..

  • Other Steve

    I wish there were some plan for this to go to Radom for mfg, then be shipped to the newly minted Walther USA for correction and branding then sell to me! Although I’m almost certain it would have scar/ACR/aug a3 pricing.

  • AZRon

    Wow, what a spirited, intelligent debate.

    I haven’t seen this many “Hidden due to low comment rating” posts since the last time somebody had the unmitigated gall to defend HK as an arms manufacturer.

    Of course the ire was well deserved, because they hate us and all that. Ya know ahm sayn G? Solid, yo.

  • Sig556

    Looks like a Sig 556 with ACR furniture.

  • kb

    it looks like they just licensed the ACR to produce it in country

    http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Carbines/ACR.aspx

    • Mike

      Nope. It’s indigenous design, just the guys responsible for the looks are probably Magpul fanboys. The first prototype looked like a chunky SCAR with a telescoping stock made out of a school table leg and some plastic.

  • idcpl

    Hi,
    Some video and more photos can be find here:
    http://altair.com.pl/start-8492

    This gun will be introduced in 3.09.2012 on International Show of Defence Industry in Kielce, Poland.
    Maybe then we will have more information and photos.

  • TW

    This looks similar to the ACR but that doesn’t mean they are anything alike on the inside…PS ive never been able to figure out why people bash the ACR so much. Ive shot it and the SCAR both and there both great guns in my eyes, much better then the old colt m4s.

  • Troy

    Since the polish spec war are fielding the ACR in limited quantities, It would not surprise me if Radom did “borrow” some of the features for the MSBS. Having lived in that part of the world, I can say that intellectual property means far less over there than here in old USA. Based on their ability to produce sub MOA AK’s, I would bet this weapon, even if a rip-off, will be better than the ACR. So I say rock on

  • AKTacticalMonkey

    Polish army has got a lot of AKs and Beryls in many configurations that need to be sold to other countries (eg. Iraq) to have a budget to rearm the whole army with new weapon system. Plus the Polish SOF is already using HK416 and G36 family rifles so it’s another question mark right there. I hope they figure it out and the design will be successful. And F*** haters, let us develop our own thing to help our guys overseas do the good job! peace.

  • IL

    Who cares what it looks like, if its a “better” service rifle more power to them. The US military establishment is very close to being behind the times in weapons developement. Too many super capable planes & UAVs & not enough improvement in soldier issue equipment. Not talking about all the accessories, talking about the RIFLE! Tired of all the “whats good enough” talk. All the “budget considerations” bs. Because if thats in the mix, and I know it is, then American soldiers won’t have the best. It’s too politicized. Even the ARX-160 is being acquired quickly! One American contracter for another country thinks its better than the HK416. The best new designs will be in other countries. What will happen if Russia or China produces an AK style weapon in a markedly superior caliber such as the 6.5 grendel? Oh my mistake something like that IS in the works. The M16 was rammed down the military’s throat. It maybe time to do that again. Oh by the way the world didn’t make their own weapons patterened after the M16, they copied the the AR18/180. WHY? because it was better! Sooner or later countries will recognize if theres something better out there, even make it better themselves.

  • Fenarid