The lawsuit between ATI and H&K has been settled. Ed reports ...
Production and importation of the original design GSG-5 ceased as of Oct, 8, 2009 with the signing of the agreement. The remaining inventory now in the USA can be sold by ATI, all distributors and dealers. ATI currently has GSG-5's in stock.
Read the full press release over at at Ed's blog.
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They seemed to have really strong case and they seemed determine to fight this according to their last press release on their site that discussed how it could effect all MP5 stuff including accessories and airsoft. They seem to have folded fast.
I wonder if the deal is for ATI to make H&Ks version now instead of Umarex…
I don’t know how the hell HK can get away with these kind of lawsuits. Their patents ran out a long time ago and they themselves copies other designs.
I guess the $500 question is whether or not the umarex clone will be better or worse buil quality than the gsg5. Since the gsg5 is compatible with all the airsoft stocks, ponying up for a gsg5 now may be a better way for the tacticool set to lock in “the devil they know”.
Perhaps someone with an umarex colt m4 can comment: are the front handguards and rear stocks replaceable?
I know all the upper/lower bits on the 22lr aren’t ar15 compatible.
-mm
I really don’t think the most important feature of the GSG-5 are the MP5 looks. Any well-performing .22 cal submachinegun-style rifle/plinker will probably sell pretty well, even if it is not based on some well known full size/military weapon.
And ditching the requirement to build it like an existing rifle gives you more freedom to optimize function and/or value.
After reading all the comments on the build quality of the colt/umarex n4 on this blog (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/13/colt-umarex-m4-carbine-22-tactical-rimfire-ar-15/), I’m strongly suspecting that a gsg5 may be the better choice here.
Sigh, I thought I was done with my gun purchases this month…
-g
Mmathers, you are never done with gun purchases this month … I don’t think that anyone who reads this blog ever is
I’ve been seeing more horror stories regarding the Umarex than i ever saw in regards to the GSG-5
hell, even the SELLERS aren’t pushing this thing as a quality gun.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140641947
also:
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140387169
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140382362
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=141283218
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140385240
H&K are the NAZIs of th gun world they screw up everyone to make a profit.
H&K was founded by Nazis. F^#% H&K!
Depending on the price I may still pick up an umarex mp7 cuz they Are so damn tacticool lol. As a plus, I could use my airaoft parts on it yay!
Let the price gouging commence.
@advocate, these links are absolutely hilarious.
Also, does anyone know anything about the quality of the .22 S&W AR-clones ? Are they any better than the umarex/colt ones ?
Once again, HK lives up to their company motto….
“You suck….and we hate you”….
I’ve seen favorable reviews about the Smith, and I have one on order right now. Both of the ones I’ve handled felt very solid, no play between the upper and lower, the bolt holds open on an empty mag, the ping-pong paddle is fully functional, and to top it all off, the freakin’ safety works the right way! Really looking forward to mine showing up in the next couple months.
My GSG-5 is a lot of fun too, and even though I haven’t even gotten around to sending the bolt body back in to get the ejector riveted, it still runs pretty well. Not 100%, but hell, my 10/22 seems to be just as reliable (it loves to stovepipe).
I’m still standing by my thoughts of this just being H&K’s underhanded way to clear the market of competitors before theirs come out. Just makes me feel better when I take my Cetme out to the range.
Don’t forget that you’re a looser if you don’t load your rounds backward in the magazine. That’s the HK way. That’s how a true operator does it.
It’s not a joke. HK do load the rounds backward in the magazine.
http://rpginn.com/xgalleryx/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=37355&g2_serialNumber=1
jdun1911, its a feature. I bet you shoot cartridges that were loaded back to front in your AR-15s
Damn, bought one yesterday – good timing
Thanks Fred.
Here is whats gonna happen…..
1. H&K force their hand and get ATI to cease production and importation of the GSG 5. (done)
2. H&K will soon introduce their own .22 caliber version of the MP 5 and market it to the civilian population and law enforcement agencies.
Its all about the money in the big business world. Now that H&K know how popular they are with the general population (as plinkers and paintball/airsoft players) they can safely produce and market it.
My question is: will the H&K version be 800-1200 USD as is everything else marked H&K or COLT?
I have no problem with companies that defend their property rights but once those patents expired it is open to the general public for use and copy.
Again I don’t know how HK can get away with it.
You don’t see Colt suing other AR .22lr maker. Why, because the patent that govern .22lr AR has expired and Colt never own it in the first place.
I don’t know how much HK version will cost but I won’t be surprise if it is over $2k.
But why did ATI settle so quickly on their flagship product when obviously H&K was on shaky grounds for winning a lawsuit that had even more merit that they seemed determined to fight? The HK416 is far closer to the Colt design than the airsoft shell (albeit like a nice airsoft) with a .22 in it GSG-5 that shared nothing but looks with the MP5.
I really think that either they got a bad judge, bad/too expensive lawyer that made it obvious they were going to loose and they cut early to avoid a large monterary settlement against them OR H&K said you suck but we’ll let you produce it for us since we can make a few hundred dollars in pure profit by putting our name on the side. It would be the win-win for both sides besides for us the buyers since support for the GSG-5 would then come from H&K. Has anybody actually confirmed that H&K and Umarex have a contract for a .22 MP5?
i really really think its important to remember that they sued over trademark and trade dress infringement… not patent infringement. Very different things.
Add to that the fact that ATI openly claimed it to be a MP5 lookalike:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/%3CFA%3EJaws/gsg5pk.jpg
and
add to that the fact that HK can absolutely smother them in legal fees and you have a no win situation for ATI.
love them or hate them i feel HK had the legal right to pursue this course.
….i’m just glad i got my gsg-5 long ago
Advocate, very good point regarding MP5 claims!
So, how many people bought a GSG-5 thinking they were getting a MP5? I’m guessing zero.
Clearly there must exist a risk of consumer confusion if laws against creating similar-looking products are to be legitimate.
*sigh*
Is this the legacy of H&K? Make really interesting guns but don’t make a version that is legal w/ out NFA paperwork?
-G36
-MP5
They would make a FORTUNE if they sold a semi version of these guns stateside in their native caliber. If they can justify selling the SL8 then why not a civvie MP5 or G36? People want a GSG-5 b/c it is about as close as they will get to a real MP5. It just blows my mind that they are either a) unwilling or b)too stupid to do this. Plenty of guns come to the USA as imports that are “just as evil” and “just as dangerous”. So what are they afraid of?? Really this is insane.
…and in the meantime they bother to market the 416. WTF. WHO CARES. GIVES US WHAT WE WANT H& K.
/rant off, LOL
I just bought a GDG-5 SD today and saw this lawsuit when I got home. So what is the bottom line? When GSG-5 sales go away will the one I bought increase in value? My dealer has one left and I am thinking of getting it as an investment. Is this a good idea?
i’m fed up with-people-saying that the gsg-5 is not an mp5 clone! What you think if hk made a .22 version it would have delayed blow back, fluted chamber??? No they woundnt its a .22-it doesnt need delayed blow back or-fluted chamber nor does the orginal 9mm mp5 need them either it just excause to flog it at totally over rated price! If you think you can use the same 9mm bolt, springs etc in a .22 then you know jackshit about firearms!
An hk mp5 with single shot only trigger pack (uk police have these) is just an 9mm carbine with very good accuracy
Thus the gsg-5 is a clone is that regard…..its very accurate, relable and pretty well bult….(ok its not and will never be hk strong but wont fall apart either.) Thats what an mp5 is about
Ps glock s
Ps
Here in Asia, the GSG5 is selling well, the gunshops are selling double the Europe SRPrices. Most by the stocks for posterity, since the real MP5 here costs 5 times the Europes SRP’s.
The GSG5SD version, is a downright rip-off since the silencer can is badly designed, barrel is loosely fitted to the gun, the barrel thickness is thinner that airgun barrels here in Manila. The Airsoft knock offs have better detail that GSG5 SD’s features.
I will wait for the H&K version, the GSG appears as a novelty here. unit a better MP5 version comes along.
Cheers
Jackd
Jackd, where in Asia can you buy a GSG5?
Ah, Philippines, of course. I can’t think of any other Asian country where they would be legal.
I’m betting the lawsuit was based on H&Ks design patents. They can last indefinitely. This is why no one else can have a soda pop bottle with the same shape as the Coke ‘hour glass’ bottle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent
In the United States, a design patent is a patent granted on the ornamental design of a functional item. Design patents are a type of industrial design right. Ornamental designs of jewelry, furniture, beverage containers (see Fig. 1) and computer icons are examples of objects that are covered by design patents.
A similar concept, a registered design can be obtained in other countries. In Japan, South Korea and Hungary, industrial designs are registered after performing an official novelty search. In Europe, one needs to only pay an official fee and meet other the formal requirements for registration (e.g. Community design at OHIM, Germany, France, Spain).
For the member states of WIPO, cover is afforded by registration at WIPO and examination by the designated member states in accordance with the Geneva Act of the Hague Agreement).
…
A US design patent covers the ornamental design for an object having practical utility. An object with a design that is substantially similar to the design claimed in a design patent cannot be made, used, copied or imported into the United States. The copy does not have to be exact for the patent to be infringed. It only has to be substantially similar.
———
Notice that last quoted sentence.