CMC Triggers Makes Statement

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Regarding Mossberg Suing Manufacturers of Drop-In Triggers (allegedly at the request of CMC), CMC Triggers have released a statement:

CMC Triggers is a Christian company, privately held and not owned by O.F. Mossberg or anyone else.
We pay our bills when they’re due including our royalty responsibility to O.F. Mossberg.

Fair competition in the market place is only fair if the playing field is level.

We proudly stand with them in their pursuit of what is right in regard to all the companies that infringe on their Patent.
Shame on anyone that would spin negatively O.F. Mossberg exercising their right under law to collect royalties.

Jack R Biegel, Pres. CMC Triggers Corp.

UPDATE: Read more about the Patent situation here:

BREAKING: The Truth Behind Drop-in AR-15 Triggers. They Date Back to 1998.



Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Pete M

    I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but why the prominence of ‘Christian Company’? How does being one religion or another factor in to a trigger IPR case/debate?

    I guess my point is: I’ve seen good and bad in this world – all done by a rainbow of races and religions. They should stick to the facts.

    • Payce

      Presumably to imply they hold values and morals to a high standard.

      • Tg

        Christians don’t hold the patent on morality, this is a cheap grab for credibility.

        • Swarf

          Yup. And it puts them on my “ugh, no” list.

          Anyone who has to go around making a point about how Christian they are is, in all likelihood, a pretty un-Christlike Christian.

          Humble yo’ self, foo.

        • Bill

          Agreed wholeheartedly. People who flaunt their spirituality are as off-putting as people who brag about anything else.

          • Aint So

            Really? Quite a pack of thoughtless knee jerkers here I would say. I live in a nation founded by men who openly “flaunted” their Christian principals so ask yourself what it is that gives rise to your contempt for this particular declaration. Do you have the same contempt for our founders, nearly all of whom flaunted their conviction of Christianity. Up until recently, before those principals were summarily trampled and rejected by the agenda driven morons we managed to elevate to our federal leadership, the experience has been comparatively quite good to that of nearly all other nations. Are these commenters from one of those other nations possibly or is it just contempt for those who openly proclaim loyalty to the principals of our historic heritage in general which is such a burr in the behinder for them. The answer to that would be revealing. If any are actually genuine Christians, then they are also likely aware that there will come a day soon when they will be imparted one last opportunity to openly flaunt their own convictions as well. I hope their declaration will be sufficient to accomplish entry into their intended destiny when made to an individual who knows much better than they precisely what genuine virtue is because He is the embodiment and source of that virtue.

          • Bill

            Yeah, really. When I’m buying a trigger I want the people behind it to be the best trigger makers possible, and could not care less whether they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan or Zoroastrian. Same for my doctor, plumber and barber.

            You may want to re-read your history. The FFs recognized that this was to be a nation with a great breadth and depth of varying religious beliefs, so they put guarantees of religious freedom in this, you know, Constitution thing, the same document that allows for you to flaunt your religion, sexual preference, political affiliation, etc, etc…

          • Cuda

            and by the same train of thought you made, some may want not only the best but also one who follows in the same path!

          • Michael Grogan

            Wrong. They were specifically protecting their right to believe their version of Christianity. They did not consider other religions at all. Does nobody read source material any more? Ugh.

          • LT Rusty

            Michael, if they didn’t want to protect everyone’s religion, then they should have specifically excluded them.

            We’ve spent a lot of time arguing that the FF’s knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote the Constitution, and that they meant every single word they put in the Second Amendment to be taken exactly the way it’s written. It’s disingenuous to say that they wrote that one exactly the way that they meant it, but that they didn’t bother to be clear that they were only protecting Christianity.

          • Michael Grogan

            You make the common mistake of taking the Constitution by itself without considering the many, many things written by the framers explaining exactly what they meant. They clearly explained what they were protecting with the Secondary Amendment: their right to bear arms so they could throw off government oppression if it became necessary again. They wrote extensively about freedom of religion as well, which was freedom to practice their Christian beliefs free of the dictates of the Church of England. The truth is that they did write, repeatedly, exactly what they meant. You and others are making proclamations about their intent based on what you think they should have meant without actually reading what they wrote or understanding the beliefs/conditions of the times that defines their efforts. Others here are doing the same thing with the Bible. Obviously.

          • LT Rusty

            You’re right- they did write, in other places, what they felt about their beliefs. But, oddly, they left that verbage out of the Constitution. They were ever so much more specific about other things, like weapons, but vague about defining religion.

            I wonder why? Do you have any suggestions?

          • Michael Grogan

            Hmmm. They repeatedly referred to their Christian religion. They referenced God in nearly every document they wrote, on the money, in their public speeches, on their buildings and monuments…. They likely never considered that people’s beliefs could become so watered down, diverse and perverted as they have today. I doubt that they could concieve that Americans would ever stray from their Christian beliefs. You can believe what you like, but they historical record does not support your arguments, sir.

          • WateryWilly

            “principals” That word does not mean what you think it means.

          • Tom

            Well spotted sir I take my hat off to you.

          • Swarf

            Spirituality is a path to freedom. Religion is a shackle.

        • SirOliverHumperdink

          No? Ever read the bible?

          • Twilight sparkle

            Ever read the Torah?

          • SirOliverHumperdink

            Yes, I’ve read the Tanakh. My wife is Jewish, and teaches at a Hebrew school.

          • Sledgecrowbar

            Quite certain the Bible teaches the great importance of humility as much as morality.

          • Mark Brooks

            The Bible doesn’t say anything about being humble about Jesus. In fact, Christians are expected to declare Him before men.

          • iksnilol

            Matthew 6 disagrees with you there, comrade 😉

          • Mark Brooks

            Actually, no, it doesn’t.

            Here’s what Matthew 6 says:

            “Be careful that you don’t do your charitable giving before men, to be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don’t sound a trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most certainly I tell you, they have received their reward. But when you do merciful deeds, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand does, so that your merciful deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.”

            Charitable giving for the praise of men isn’t in view here.

            “Everyone therefore who confesses me before men, him I will also confess before my Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies me before men, him I will also deny before my Father who is in heaven.”

            CMC Triggers is merely confessing Christ before men. This is obedience, not disobedience, to God.

          • iksnilol

            You conveniently skipped the part about praying, that is also a part of Matthew 6. Man, I am getting a bad vibe now. I mean, if I wasn’t sure you were such a good and upstanding citizen I’d dare say you were being dishonest with me.

          • Mark Brooks

            I don’t see CMC Triggers praying either. Relevance?

          • Right Turn Clyde

            The company is professing their beliefs as they are allowed, and may benefit or suffer in business for it. That’s their choice.

            As for scripture – Context people!

            The Matthew references are meant to teach the believer not to put on a show of giving or praying, not to “act” Christian for recognition or praise. They are directly implicating the Jewish Pharasees who did just that – all show and no substance. Christ wants genuine followers not those who only want social status.

            However, the very same Matthew quotes Jesus as saying, “you are the light of the world, a city set upon a hill cannot be hidden … Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.”

            Contradictory? No. Christians are charged to exhibit Christ daily, just not pridefully or hypocritically.

          • Gregory

            No

          • Budogunner

            Matthew 6:5-6

        • ozzallos .

          You’re right, Christians don’t hold a patent on morality but that’s not the point in anyway. Stating it gives the potential consumer a definite guideline by which they should be doing business… While helpfully targeting a specific marketing demographic.

          Somebody is making a mountain out of a molehill here.

        • n0truscotsman

          Right you are

          *straps on ACH*, braces in foxhole*

    • Bwahaha

      Amen! I mean, right on bruh.

    • micmac80

      Christian Company most duchebag thing they could state ,right there after islamist and jewish company, who cares as if there are some high standards associated with being ‘Christian’

      • Swarf

        Their aren’t.

        Unless you think the self-serving Prosperity Gospel bullshit version of Christianity this guy undoubtedly subscribes to is the true sign of a man occupying the moral high ground.

        I’ll bet he makes his daughters sign “purity pledges” and then sneaks them in to Planned Parenthood when they inevitably get their Snowflake card ackwardly punched because they don’t know what contraception is.

        • mk18

          lolz…best comment yet!

        • tts

          The ones who flaunt their religion also tend to be the types who take it a step creepier and do the “purity balls” too from what I’ve seen.

          Everyone of those guys tends to be “holier than thou” and goes all in on the Prosperity Gospel/Rich=More Moral Than Thou stuff too.

          • Porty1119

            They do the what now?

          • tts

            You have to google it because otherwise my post would be tied up in moderation but “purity ball” is the phrase that makes google pay up on this particular dirt.

            Its essentially a “party” where the super Christian dad’s bring their daughters to chaperone them, show them off to other like minded dads, and dance with their and other’s daughters.

            That description makes it sound less weird than it really is. You have to see the videos and not just read a article on it to get a feel for the creep vibe it puts off.

          • UnderDown

            I can never un-Google that.

            I hope they have the ‘daylight’ rule or the little princesses will be rubbing against a lot of old man boners.

            Not that they know what one feels like, of course.

          • Bill

            I don’t know if they have the “10 finger” rule that I always bumped up against, literally, at the (insert huge religion here) school dances I went to as a kid. That was back when Sister Mary Misery was still allowed to go all Egyptian on us with the pointer stick.

          • UnderDown

            I can imagine the group conversation at the bar:

            “My daughter’s hymen is bigger than your daughter’s hymen”

            “Well, my daughter’s hymen is stronger.

            “My daughter rides horses…”

          • MeaCulpa

            Yeah, it does seem weird to have a party to celebrate that your daughter haven’t been, eeeeh – you know.

          • Mark Brooks

            They are just ascribing things to somebody to justify their hate.

          • Tinklebell

            “Purity Balls”? I can’t even begin to describe how wrong that sounds…

      • SirOliverHumperdink

        So if they stated they were a TG bathroom friendly, atheist nazi company, who donates to repeal the 2nd amendment, would that make a difference to you?

        • Mark Brooks

          I think that a lot of the negative comments are from people who think that Christians should be silent about being Christian. I’m also seeing a lot of strawmen being built up, attributing things and attitudes without so much an an iota of basis.

          That’s bigotry.

          • Brad Nims

            I’m an atheist but I would die to protect the right of Christians to speak their piece about what they believe openly and freely. That doesn’t mean I can’t find it annoying or even disingenuous or intentionally misleading at times.

          • Matt

            Well, I think instead that is not a question of silencing Christians.
            Moreover pulling triggers doesn’t relate well with being Christians.

          • Mark Brooks

            Amazing how many people will tell Christians how they are supposed to be.

          • Matt

            Well, a Christian would follow Jesus Christ Teachings (whereas for Muslims is pretty clear which side of the sword their prophet was).

            “King James Bible, Matthew 5:44

            But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”

            How can someone love your enemy by squeezing the trigger? Pretty confusing, please enlighten me.

          • Mark Brooks

            “Don’t think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn’t come to send peace, but a sword.”

            Perhaps you should read more of the Bible. Atheists love the Sermon on the Mount, because they don’t really understand it and can cherry-pick it to suit themselves.

          • Michael Grogan

            Uh. No. Read your Bible. Not what TV tells you, not what some blogger claims, not comments from people like me, not what your sell out preacher tells you. The Bible.

            Then go by guns and food and get ready, brother.

        • iksnilol

          Not really, I think we’d still dislike them.

        • MeaCulpa

          Only if they where staunchly against the 21 amendment. I will not do buisness with drunks!

        • Alien Life Form

          Yes!

    • cry

      CMC has always leaned heavily on their “Christian values” branding, one of the reasons I won’t buy from them. I don’t really care if or what religion you prescribe to so long as you leave me out of it. They brag of their faith as a badge of honor, something their own bible warns against. It stinks of politics and I won’t support it.

      • Mark Brooks

        “They brag of their faith as a badge of honor, something their own bible warns against.”

        Can you provide a citation?

        • nihilism

          “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven” Matthew 6:1

          • George Griffin

            I don’t know what version this translation comes from but the KJV of this scripture is talking about when giving to the church or doing charitable work in order to show others how much you give, basically, don’t brag about your wealth. I believe the relevant scripture this story relates to is Matthew 10:32-33 King James Version (KJV)

            32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

            33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

          • Mark Brooks

            Thanks. For some reason my response on this has been marked “Pending”. Not sure what that means.

          • Bill

            Nobody’s “denying” anything; some appear not to like blatant proselytizing as a business practice.

          • George Griffin

            I believe that is true, that is why we as consumers choose where to spend our money. If you don’t like the message don’t spend your money there just like I don’t spend my money at Home Depot, Target or Chipotle.

          • uisconfruzed

            Do you avoid Geissele & Trijicon as well

          • Bill

            Nope, except they don’t make products that fit my needs, and would consider doing business with CMC when they become the best for my use. That doesn’t mean I approve of all, repeat all, of their business practices.

            I guess fundamentalism requires a certain black or white worldview I don’t have.

          • Al Klahoma

            It’s all fiction anyways, a book of fables.

          • Al Shartpants

            How many books have you read?

          • Sorry, that book of fables helped my wife survive two bouts of cancer. I would be only to happy to send you a free copy.

          • DaveGinOly

            There have been tens of thousands, if not millions, of people who have been “saved” by belief systems that were not Christian. Christians would consider these systems false, showing that being saved by a belief system is in no way an indication of that system’s validity.

          • Tyler Morgan

            Wrong, thats not the one he’s talkong about, he’s quoting mathew 6:1 which specifically talks about not acting righteous. Its like the spinter and the log. Take the log out of your eye before you worry about the splinter on your neighbors eye

          • George Griffin

            ” but the KJV of this scripture is talking about when giving to the church or doing charitable work in order to show others how much you give, basically, don’t brag about your wealth”
            6 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
            This is from the NKJV, and has nothing to do with righteousness, it has to do with bragging about your wealth by giving to the church.

          • DaveGinOly

            “nihilism” is correct. Although you correctly cite the specific context, even in context the warning is against flaunting your belief in order to gain recognition or attention. The warning was couched within a particular context, but not necessarily restricted by it. By bringing up the citations you quote, you did nothing other than demonstrate how the Bible contradicts itself.

          • George Griffin

            The Holy Bible has no contradictions, the contradictions are in your understanding of the Word. You have no faith so you seek to find fault with the Word, the fault is in you sir and it is called sin. I don’t blame you for this as you are lost, I pray that God will open your heart and remove the cloud from your eyes so that you may see the truth, Jesus died for you and everyone, he paid the price of eternal damnation so we who accept His offer of salvation never have to. I always have hope for those who are lost that read the Word, even if you read it to find error, that one day you will find a glimmer of truth that will turn into the flame of belief. May God bless you.

          • me

            Boom.

        • Budogunner

          Matthew 6:5-6 for one.

          • Mark Brooks

            Matthew 6:5-6, part of the Sermon on the Mount, given in public ministry to the children of Israel early in Jesus’ ministry, has nothing to do with openly declaring one’s Christianity before men, which is CMC Triggers’ only offense here. It has to do with how Israelite hypocrites of Jesus’ day made a public show of their acts of charitable giving at the Temple.

            Christians are expected to declare Him before men. Matthew 10:32-33. No one is to hide the light, but to let it shine for all to see. Luke 11:33.

          • Budogunner

            Show it with the works of your hands, not the words of your tongues. I’m a fan of those who live a Christ-like life but preach seldom, choosing to let their example speak for itself.

          • Mark Brooks

            Based on your comments as a whole Budogunner, it is clear to me that you are being insincere. You simply like Christians to be silent.

            Besides, Christians are commanded specifically to preach, teach and rebuke. Yes, there should be actions as well, but without the Word, they are meaningless “good deeds” that don’t accomplish anything.

        • Richard Clarke

          Matthew 6:5-6 (NIV)

          “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray
          standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by
          others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

          But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your
          Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in
          secret, will reward you.

      • georgeIIII

        Who put you “in it” other than you? Sounds to me that you have made a moral judgement on another. Got a deity complex?

        • Tom

          I have pending too I guess this has the topic has the potential to turn into a flame wall though I see no reason why as we normally behave in a civilized fashion.

          • Pete M

            One of the many things I like about this place is that we all have different backgrounds and views, but can rally around our love of the gun.

    • Brian

      When I saw the reference to Christianity; I thought what does that have to do with anything. This is a legal/patent issue not religious.

      • georgeIIII

        And it appears, from all outward signs, to be a legitimate suit. It would be nice if the collective of whiners would STFU until a judge or jury speaks to the credibility of the patent protections being broken.

        • Milk Manson

          How about you STFU since we all know this has nothing to with merit and everything to do with deep pockets. A jury? Please, like the little guy could ever afford to take it that far.

          When we have multinational conglomerates from Korea building community ice rinks and handing out scholarships in East Texas, something isn’t working. US patent law is a complete dumpster fire.

    • Rusty Shackleford

      It is a cheesy way of saying “we have high moral values” and get a few more customers.

    • derpmaster

      Common douche tactic to pander to christians. It’s meaningless, but stupid people buy into it. I know a family that always takes their cars to Christian Brothers Automotive (national chain) because it has the word christian in the title.

    • That comment made me want to go straight to Rise Armament’s website and buy a few triggers.

    • Charles Applegate

      No flames from me – that stuck out like a turd in a baptismal font.

      Worse yet, it’s incomplete. Is CMC Triggers a Protestant company? If so, which church – Baptist, Lutheran, Calvinist, or Pentecostal – and is it Mainline or Evangelical? Or is CMC Triggers a Catholic company – and if so, where does it stand on the Baltimore Catechism and Vatican II?

      HOW CAN I DECIDE WHETHER TO PRAY FOR OR AGAINST MOSSBERG IF THEIR VENDORS’ RELIGIOUS AFFILIATIONS ARE AMBIGUOUS?!?

      • iksnilol

        Reminds me of the joke about the man on the bridge.

        • Cory C

          Hahahaha. That is great!

        • uisconfruzed

          That’s Emo’s funniest piece.

      • AK™

        I’d settle for Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism

    • Glenn Bellamy

      In at least one of the comments to the original blog post about Mossberg suing to enforce its patent, someone implied that it was “un-Christian” for CMC to be suing (even though CMC didn’t bring the suit). I believe that this comment questioning their faith may have been the basis for their statement.

      CMC had no knowledge that Mossberg was going to file these compliants.

      • Pete M

        If true, that makes sense. Thanks Glenn. Appreciate the comment.

    • Organgrinder

      Wow . . . way to unintentionally pirate an article (article?).

      But yes, usury is indeed sacrilege.

    • LetsTryLibertyAgain

      The owners of CMC may be devout, but the “Christian company” struck me the same way the Christian fish symbol does in yellow pages ads. It’s often a cynical marketing ploy to dupe people. I don’t avoid those businesses because they’re owned by Christians. I avoid them because they use religion as part of their marketing which I find offensive. I simply don’t want to deal with companies that would do that, but they probably do it because it works, at least here on the buckle of the Bible Belt.

      In the case of this CMC press release, it seemed doubly weaselly, as if to say, “We’re fine upstanding Christians, so don’t hate us because it looks like we compelled Mossberg to wage a legal battle to crush our competitors.”

  • iksnilol

    Weaklings… pathetic.

    • Mark Brooks

      Your Social Darwinism is showing.

      Yes, you may enjoyed your grilled cheese in peace now.

      • iksnilol

        I find them weak for not be willing to fight for themselves. I shan’t live my life on my knees for none other than the Lord. So I look down upon those who throw themselves at the floor beneath anybody who offers a bit of profit or protection.

        • Mark Brooks

          I see that you don’t really want to enjoy your grilled cheese in peace.

        • Mark Brooks

          I thought you wanted to enjoy your grilled cheese in peace?

          Only the patent holder can enforce the patent. As Mossberg’s licensee, they have every moral and legal right to expect Mossberg, which is collecting a fee from them, to enforce the patent. Most likely the license contract contains just such an enforcement clause.

          CMC Triggers is doing what is right from a legal perspective. How is your ox being gored by their following the law?

          • iksnilol

            Because the law is stupid and you should do something about if it is stupid. Kinda the reason why we have courts and free speech and whatnot.

          • Mark Brooks

            Then complain to your Congressman. Bombing the comments thread here with you dislike of CMC Triggers for following the law as it is accomplishes nothing.

          • iksnilol

            *facepalm*

            I am kinda on another continent busy with the law there. I mean, your bombing of religious crap doesn’t help either.

          • Mark Brooks

            Looks to me like you are busy in these comments, hating Christians. Maybe you SHOULD focus a little on something else. If you can.

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, I am hating you poor, preaching hypocrites.

            Not really, I just don’t have anything better to do at the moment. Just listening to some good music, grieving for a comrade who’s gone and dreading finals. If me “persecuting” and “hating” you takes my mind of the crap that I will have to deal with in the coming week… well, then so be it.

          • Mark Brooks

            Now we are seeing more of your true mind in this. Thanks. You are being more honest than most of the anti-Christians in this forum.

          • iksnilol

            Can I have the number of your dealer? Because I work with legal drugs all day and I’ve yet to find something that can alter the mind as much as the stuff you take. The closest thing is my brother but he’s just difficult for the sake of being difficult.

            That it? You being difficult for the sake of being difficult? Man, people like you make me wish I drank.

          • Swarf

            Help help, you’re being repressed!

  • John

    Meanwhile Kalashnikov Concern, godless heathens that they are, caustically allows people to simply make their products using a shovel, a blow torch, spare parts and some vodka. Shame on them.

  • hking

    “Fair competition in the market place is only fair if the playing field is level.”

    LOL isn’t that exactly what they are arguing against? That only 1 company/person can have a specific idea or way of doing things and everyone else should be excluded from doing it or have to pony up and pay for coming to the same logical design conclusion that someone else did? Pretty sure Timney Triggers had drop in trigger packs before the original CMC came up with theirs and Mossberg bought the “patent”.

    • I don’t believe so. Timney’s AR-15 trigger was new in 2007. And CMC’s patent was granted 2007, with an application in 2006.

      • Fred O C Cubed

        Timney’s predate CMC, by two years.

        • Where are you finding that?

          Everything I see points for an late 2006 early 2007 release. The CMC patent was applied for in early 2006, granted in 2007. At best they designed it at the same time. But whoever gets their application in first gets the patent.

          But if Timney truly had their design and released it before the patent application then they are prior art.

          Personally I have no dog in this fight, so I don’t care who wins.

          • Fred O C Cubed

            Sent you a message on the “X” 😉

          • I haven’t been there in quite a while.

          • Studebaker_Hawk

            I kinda do. I have a Velocity trigger in a S&W M&P15. I love it. My purchase from them was an extremely pleasant experience and the product has lived up to my expectations. I would hate to see this destroy Velocity.

    • Smedley54

      If so, Timney has a strong position to challenge the patent based on prior art. If that’s the only basis for the suit, or the patent, Mossberg has a very weak position, but there’s probably more.

      • Tom

        In theory yes it can be challenged but its a lengthy and costly process. One can always live in hope that the Patent office might actually gets its act together and stop granting patents for which prior art exists but that would result in less patent trolling and work for attorneys.

    • Mark Brooks

      If your argument is with the patent system, that’s an argument to be taken up with your Congressman. The patent is on the books and CMC paid for their license. It is the patent that matters. It doesn’t matter what Timney Triggers did prior to Mossberg purchasing the patent, if Timney was already in violation of the patent.

      That’s why there has to be a lawsuit, to resolve those issues.

      • iksnilol

        Argument isn’t really with the patent system, it’s just that the “magic box” triggers are years old. Complaining about it now is like complaining about the burrito you ate 10 years ago being off, then suing.

        • Tom

          But the US has a long and wonderful history of patent trolling (Rollin White) and lengthy lawsuits for which the lawyers are the only winners.

        • Mark Brooks

          The patent was granted. The lawsuit will establish whether the claim is valid. A lot of people are sounding off here without actually understanding how patent law works.

  • Dan

    He’s trying to do the right thing, stomping on his nuts because he mentioned he’s Christian is a bit much don’t you think? He didn’t imply anything, or is trying to make you do anything. Why are you acting like he pissed in your Cheerios??

    • cry

      In a vacuum I would agree with you, however CMC has a well established history of flaunting their religion at all possible opportunity. They are gross about it and deserve to be called out.

    • Tassiebush

      i think Mr Biegel mentioned it to add weight to his argument. People claiming high ground based on faith or ideology or the reverse for that matter of dismissing people’s points based on this isn’t particularly valid. but agreed it’s not something to get overly upset about.

    • It’s just in bad taste. Like stating that you’re Christian when explaining why you didn’t run the red light.

      • Mark Brooks

        That’s the opposite of what happened here. They didn’t run the red light. As Christians, they know they are under the spotlight, so they followed the law. Maybe you should read the press release again.

        The problem is those people who are running the red light, not the Christian who didn’t.

        • I hate snappy symmetric snap backs, but maybe you should read the comment again. It says:

          «[It’s] like stating that you’re Christian when explaining why you didn’t run the red light.»

    • Mark Brooks

      A lot of people hate Christians, and hate Christians who are open about their Christianity most of all. It is an unfortunate reality of the world we live in. Some of those who hate Christians profess Christianity.

      They have a thousand excuses for hating Christians, but it always really comes back to the same thing:

      “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.”

      Looks through the comments over time and I’m sure you will see every stereotypical attack on Christians you might expect to see, from scatalogical expressions of unbelief to unwarranted implications to asserting that to be openly Christian is somehow in bad taste.

      His enemies never change.

      • Pete M

        To be clear, there was no malice in my orginal post. “Christian Company” just seems out of place in a press release.

        • Mark Brooks

          It’s all over their website. Like Hobby Lobby and Chick-Fil-A, it is part of who they are. If all “out of place” means is, “I’m not expecting to see that”, well, they aren’t necessarily the same as everybody else. They are who they are. So their press releases are going to be a little different too.

          • Pete M

            I see your point. I don’t agree. But I still see where you are coming from.

      • TJbrena

        The issue isn’t Biegel’s faith, or him being open about it. I’m extremely doubtful that the people in this comments section care about that. The issue is that in this context it feels a lot like he’s bringing up his faith to be holier-than-thou, equating Christianity with being good and honest, then (here’s the problem) equating those things with bowing before Mossberg.

        Lording your faith over others is a very un-Christian thing to do. God wants us to be faithful and humble servants, not to use His word to bully others for personal advancement. And make no mistake, Biegel’s ego is the issue here, not his faith.

        • Pete M

          Thank you. That’s what I was trying to convey. You just said it better.

          • Mark Brooks

            I’m sorry to hear that, because what TJbrena is saying has nothing to do with what is in CMC’s press release.

            People who attribute their own negative emotions towards Christians with Christians being open about their Christianity? That’s bigotry. Is that okay?

          • incognito

            ah, the victim card.
            It’s rich seeing religious people complain about bigotry.

          • Mark Brooks

            “joos to the ovens”, eh incognito?

          • TJbrena

            “CMC Triggers is a Christian company”

            Cool.

            “We pay our bills when they’re due including our royalty responsibility to O.F. Mossberg.”

            Hm. It seems that Biegel is trying to connect Christianity with his business decision. And since it’s not benefiting the poor, sick, meek, downtrodden, etc. it’s a bit of a problem.

            “Fair competition in the market place is only fair if the playing field is level.

            We proudly stand with them in their pursuit of what is right in regard to all the companies that infringe on their Patent.

            Shame on anyone that would spin negatively O.F. Mossberg exercising their right under law to collect royalties.”

            I’m being shamed for finding these business practices ethically questionable. And if the rumors about CMC requesting the lawsuit as the article mentions above the quote are true, then I guess shame on me for finding CMC’s participation ethically questionable as well, since they’d be using Mossberg to eliminate competition and therefore enrich themselves.

            This sort of self-aggrandizing, self-enriching behavior at the expense of others is distinctly un-Christian. I don’t like when people use my faith to justify greedy business practices and then shame me for disagreeing.

          • Mark Brooks

            “Hm. It seems that Biegel is trying to connect Christianity with his business decision. And since it’s not benefiting the poor, sick, meek, downtrodden, etc. it’s a bit of a problem.”

            How about obeying the law? Should Christians do that?

            Because that is what CMC Triggers has done. Because they are open in their witness, they know that the eyes of the Enemy are on them. So they do what is right, and buy the license from Mossberg. That’s the law. Only Mossberg can enforce the patent, and they purchased it lawfully from the owner.

            However, there are others who are profiting by flouting Mossberg’s patent. You apparently consider this right. It isn’t. And if CMC Triggers had done it, then they could be justly condemned.

            I think your own ethics are dubious, whereever they come from. If you have a problem with patent law, take it up with your Congressman. Smearing CMC Triggers? That’s wrong, period.

          • TJbrena

            “How about obeying the law? Should Christians do that?”

            The patent isn’t the issue here. The issue is CMC using Christianity as a tool to defend their quest for profit.

          • Mark Brooks

            First you said they are using Mossberg. Now you say they are using their Christianity. Which is it? Because your arguments are all over the place.

            CMC Triggers didn’t use Christianity “as a tool to defend their quest for profit.” Because they are Christians, they obey the law. They are using patent law to defend their rights under the law. So if you have a problem with U.S. Patent Law, write your Congressman.

            The people who are enriching themselves at the expense of others are those who violated Mossberg’s rights. Perhaps you should save some of your outrage for those people.

        • Mark Brooks

          Except that you are attributing to CMC something they haven’t actually done. So who is it that actually has the problem? “It feels” you say. Why do you feel that way, and how are they to blame for your feeling?

      • iHAL

        Quite the persecution complex

        • Mark Brooks

          The persecution of Christians is simply historical reality, whatever your beliefs.

          • iksnilol

            Persecution? You mean secularization and people rightfully keeping the corporeal and spiritual realms separate (as they should).

          • Tassiebush

            To be fair to Mark’s point there actually is a substantial history and continuation of persecution of Christians. The Romans martyred large numbers. The tensions as it spread post Roman empire. There’s the whole Islam vs Christian tensions and conflicts (both sides hold blame and suffered) which are ongoing even now in various hot spots (Syria, northern Iraq and parts of Indonesia) then there’s communism and currently especially North Korea. Then at a much less serious scale but still significant in a contemporary Western context Christians seem to cop a disproportionate amount of derogatory comments and scorn in quite mainstream contexts. Certainly not saying Christians are especially downtrodden in general and certainly christians are sometimes persecutors, but it’s safe to say that a lot are persecuted in various places without getting much attention.

          • randomswede

            I can’t think of a single historically significant group that’s not been subject to some kind of “offense”. If that offence was or is seen as persecution is a matter of perspective.

          • Tassiebush

            Fair point. It depends where people start seeing it as vilification.

          • Mark Brooks

            That’s your opinion. It doesn’t have anything to do with history, it sounds more like atheist ideology. However, declaring one’s Christianity doesn’t impact your “secularization” in any way, unless you think that Christians should be silenced, and that is bigotry.

            Thanks for posting this. I’m glad to see some folks revealing their true minds here. Oftentimes those who hate Christians will hide behind buzzwords and coded claims, trying to disguise what they really mean. It is the old tactic of persecutors.

          • iksnilol

            Myes, I persecute and hate you… Now *may I enjoy my grilled cheese in peace?

          • randomswede

            “Atheist ideology”, that’s like “non-pilot ideology” the “a” in atheist comes from the greek prefix “a” for not as in asymmetric, acyclic or asexual. Atheist simply means “not theist” or “non-theist” in a more english sounding form.

          • Budogunner

            True, but the historical reality of the Crusades, Spanish inquisition, Conquests of the Holy Roman Empire, and difficulty of being a non-Christian in the American South even today make your comment a little cringe-worthy.

          • Mark Brooks

            Your hatred is cringe-worthy. Ascribing things to people that have nothing to do with them is bigotry.

          • Budogunner

            The persecution of Christians throughout history has nothing to do with us either. So I suppose we get to be bigots together.

            My point is playing the victim when the faith has also been a villain is an awkward argument at best.

          • Mark Brooks

            Admitting that you are a bigot is certainly an awkward argument when you are denying persecution. Tu quoque isn’t very persuasive either.

            You just don’t like Christians, Bud.

          • Budogunner

            I find your efforts to put words in other people’s mouths, then chastize them for them, disturbing. I trust the readers to exercise their own reason and judgement when it comes to this exchange.

          • Mark Brooks

            No point in whining when you have been hoisted by your own petard. I’m not worried about anyone reading this exchange who actually cares about facts and logic.

      • iksnilol

        I don’t really hate Christians, I just dislike people with an holier than thou attitude.

        But, me being a good and faithful muslim shouldn’t draw light to that, since ye sinners and pagans know not what ye are doing wrong. See how that last sentence sounded douchey? Yeah.

        • Tassiebush

          In my minds eye you had the cleric right hand index finger up when you wrote that 😉

          • iksnilol

            It makes for a better story, if somebody asks, then that’s what I did 😉

        • randomswede

          I don’t hate people of faith, I just dislike people who inject faith as fact where it changes my quality of life.

          But, me being a good and faithless atheist shouldn’t draw light to that, since ye religious people can’t be blamed for preferring simple unfactual lies to the truth. Did that sound douchey enough to qualify?

          I’m really here for guns and not politics or religion but I figured I could give an atheists version of iksnilol’s “spiel”.

          • Tassiebush

            haha new tagline needed Firearms not Politics or religion

          • Tassiebush

            I don’t hate people of faith or non faith. I just dislike people who inject certainty as fact…
            but me being a good agnostic shouldn’t draw light to that since I’m not sure what I believe… oh gosh i’m too confused to even finish writing my own variation of this!

          • iksnilol

            Completely agree with you.

            It did sound douchey enough, you¨ve gained my seal of approval… or at least you will when I get my hands on a seal. Zoos got tight security, y’know 😛

          • Tassiebush

            I can probably get one next time i take the boat out. they like to float around sleeping warming themselves in the sun. i’ll harpoon one with my speargun and shove it in a crate and ship it over.

          • iksnilol

            How many stamps will you need for that? 😛

          • Tassiebush

            not sure it varies. it takes a lot of stamping to subdue them.

          • randomswede

            Thanks, I had to rewrite it a few time to get to douchebag level. ; )

          • iksnilol

            Don’t worry, be a douchebag like me and it comes naturally. You only need to practice, and you might one day be as douchy as me.

            Ironically, I don’t use any hair products… despite my amazing hair.

        • Mark Brooks

          It sounds “douchey” because you are being smug, and, I suspect, dishonest. Your other comments suggest to me that you are an atheist, so really, your motivation is your hatred of Christianity, correct?

          This “holier than thou” attitude you complain of exists in your head. It isn’t in the press release.

          • iksnilol

            As a good muslim man, I must disagree with your assumal of both me being an atheist and of their lack of an holier than thou attitude. I’ve perused their site and to me they are just like the charlatans I see in my homeland, wearing their faith as a badge of honour to look better than everybody else.

          • Mark Brooks

            SInce you’ve already outed yourself elsewhere in the comments you are kind of wasting time now.

          • iksnilol

            And you are not wasting your time?

          • Mark Brooks

            Sounds like an admission.

          • iksnilol

            Still wasting your time with me.

    • TJbrena

      As Christians we’re supposed to be humble and generally cool about it, not go the vegan route and talk about it nonstop as a way of being a holier-than-thou special snowflake. Biegel seems to be using the Bible as a source of authority for his decision here, rather than following what the Bible teaches us.

      • Tassiebush

        I really like mention you made of the vegan route. A very good observation.

      • Charles Applegate

        Vegan Christians must be a conflicted bunch.

      • Mark Brooks

        TJbrena, nothing you are saying has anything to do with what Biegel is doing. Building up a strawman so you can knock it down is pointless.

  • ChierDuChien

    Well, from most of the posts about this mess, it must be OK for the Chinese to steal the patents of US companies since the patent holders are all unfair scrooges or being greedy or being religious or whatever..

    • john

      …if said companies patented the general concept of something they didn’t actually invent, and then neglected said IP for years while other companies manufactured their own products using the concept

      • Mark Brooks

        Actually, Mossberg purchased the patent. It isn’t that they patented something they didn’t invent. The patent already existed.

        I think a lot of people are arguing, not based on what patent law is, but what they think it ought to be. If you don’t like the law, the people you should be having the argument with are in the Congress. The Congress controls patent law, how it works, and what can and can’t be patented, including what a valid defense to patent enforcement is.

        • John

          Fine, purchased a patent for a decades old concept that the original patent owner didn’t invent. Better?

          • Mark Brooks

            Nope. That’s not an accurate statement. This suit isn’t over a decades-old concept.

    • Mark Brooks

      LOL. Yeah, it is always a matter of whose ox is being gored, isn’t it?

  • Harry’s Holsters

    I heavily disagree with this statement:
    While I do understand the need for protecting intellectual property in some cases, I personally have a problem with companies that buy up (or otherwise acquire patents for) items they did not innovate. IF you are the original innovator, then, okay, you should be able to reap some advantages for a period of time to capitalize on your product. However if you are using patents as an investment and/or speculative arrangement (or to otherwise stifle innovation), I strongly disagree (though the law clearly doesn’t support my opinion).

    If someone takes the time and money to develop and patent a process they deserve to reap the rewards for a certain period of time even if it is only through selling the rights.

    I could get behind no patents at all but not hey are good for the manufacturer but not the inventor.

    • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Disagree allb you want but as you stated, the law clearly doesn’t support your position. The patent is a conveyable instrument that entitles all benefits of the patent to the buyer / owner.
      Why would you think that is a bad thing? If you invent something, patented it, wouldn’t you want the right to sell it.

      • Mark Brooks

        There are issues with patents, sure. But people only get upset when they see their ox being gored.

        Folks, take it up with your Congressman. They decide the details of patent law by the legislation they enact. This is purely a matter of Federal statute law — there is no such thing as a “common law” or State law patent, such beasts don’t exist under the U.S. Constitution.

        Mossberg and CMC are following the law. Blaming them for it doesn’t make sense. Talk to your Congressman if you think the law is wrong or should be changed.

        Your favorite drop-in trigger assembly manufacturer? They should have purchased a license. Then they wouldn’t have a problem.

        • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          The first patent issued in North America was done in 1642. Based on the English Statute of Monopolies of 1624.
          I am ok with patents. Think they have been extended too far in the last decade.

          • Mark Brooks

            Right. Lawyers who practice in the area of patent, trademark, or copyright law prefer the term “intellectual property” but that’s a misnomer. It is really the law of monopolies. These are rights that exist solely due to government grant. Patents of many kinds were once available, including patents of nobility.

            I’m not sure how I feel about patents. Monopolies that are the result of government grant usually become a mere matter of rent-seeking by the politically connected and this obviously works against the interests of ordinary people.

            Originally the idea behind patents was to avoid the loss of useful knowledge by encouraging patenting that knowledge rather than keeping it as a trade secret and thus risking loss. But Federal court decisions have expanded the reach of patent and copyright law in unexpected ways and with some detrimental effects. Moreover, the Congress has gone along with wealthy middleman rights holders in an ever increasing expansion of patent and copyright which has proved difficult to restrain.

            It can become a threat to liberty, not just to people’s pockets.

            Still, in this particular instance, Mossberg and CMC aren’t doing anything inherently wrongful. They are simply following the law.

          • Shocked_and_Amazed✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Patents have a place in law. If I have an original idea, I should be able to profit from it with out you stealing it for a period of time.
            Anyone here begrudge John McCain Browning a living off his genius?

          • Patents aren’t like copyright with ridiculous terms.

            Utility Patents (which is what this is IIRC) – 20 years from filing, so they have at most a decade left.

            The only extensions are due to delays in FDA approval for drugs, and for lengthy USPTO processing times.

          • Mark Brooks

            Process patents are a problem, but that’s a new thing, and largely a creation of the courts.

            There are abuses on drug patents.

          • Yes drug patents have some abuses, particularly because they are patenting genes, and not treatment these days.

            If I were king for a day I would probably make these changes.

            Utility Patents – stay the same, but have better mechanisms to challenge patents all patents.
            Software patents – two years at most
            Technology idea patents – ie not a particular implementation but the idea of doing something – 5 years
            Process patents – probably 2-5 years
            Copyrights non-works for hire music, art and written works – 20 years or life of the creator whichever is longer
            Copyright works for hire music, art, and written works – 20 years
            Movies and video games – 40 years (due to the higher costs they should be able to exploit them longer)

            Fair use exceptions include – allowing the owner to break copyright protections for the purpose of transferring from one medium to another. That includes moving to digital, and for moving from an obsolete platform (like an old computer) to a modern platform.

          • Gunner4guy

            I would agree except for: both copyrights of works and for movies and video games – I would cut the copyright time by 1/3 and movies and video games cut by 1/2 with NO extensions whatsoever. That precludes a broker/investor/relative/private collector/hoarder buying up selected items and turning around and getting the copyrights extended, indefinitely in some cases, without having produced anything themselves simply because they can or to deny others the pleasures of those items and sequestering them (from fans…..among others) for their own enjoyment or ‘right’ of ownership. I would argue that past a reasonable time period I suggested that all 3 of the items you mentioned should go into the public domain.
            Would this fly? Probably not but unless a person brings it up no one will think about it.

            I DO like your last paragraph re moving from one platform to another: I have many VHS, even a few BETA tapes, with movies or TV programs on them that will NEVER be on digital media because of such a limited audience that most companies won’t find it economic to cater to. Therefore, to preserve them, even in my little corner of the world, transfer to current state-of-the art digital media is necessary.

      • Harry’s Holsters

        Read my statement again and you’ll see we agree.

    • Mike Burns

      “IF you are the original innovator, then, okay, you should be able to reap some advantages for a period of time to capitalize on your product.” Chip McCormick capitalised on his innovation by selling the patent to Mossberg. This is how it works.

      • Harry’s Holsters

        Yes and now Mossberg should have the right to capitalize on their purchase. In the original article the writer stated:

        While I do understand the need for protecting intellectual property in some cases, I personally have a problem with companies that buy up (or otherwise acquire patents for) items they did not innovate. IF you are the original innovator, then, okay, you should be able to reap some advantages for a period of time to capitalize on your product. However if you are using patents as an investment and/or speculative arrangement (or to otherwise stifle innovation), I strongly disagree (though the law clearly doesn’t support my opinion).

  • thedonn007

    Nothing wrong with collecting a royalty for use of the patent.

    • John

      Except the idea of a pre-assembled trigger package predates their patent, it’s a pretty basic idea, and they have failed to defend their IP until years after multiple companies have begun using the concept.

      • Mark Brooks

        Failure to defend isn’t a defense under patent law. I believe you are thinking about a trademark.

        • John

          I’m well aware that failure to defend is a defense relating to trademarks. There’s no reasonable way CMC/ Mossberg didn’t know about the slew of companies manufacturing drop-in trigger groups. Why it took them nearly a decade to file claims is a good question to ask.
          Even if they can’t use IP neglect as a defense, it’s a patent for something invented decades ago of dubious uniqueness. Reminds me of the man in Australia who briefly owned a patent for the wheel.

          • Mark Brooks

            John I think you are confused. This isn’t a suit over something generic. It appears to be a suit over something specific and recent.

      • Koh

        The Walker trigger on the Remington 721/722 circa 1940s is the first that comes to mind.

        • marathag

          Suomi M31 even earlier

      • Smedley54

        After wading through the patent and reviews, I think it was narrowed in ways that functionally limit it to AR’s. This seems to be a normal part of the patent process. Delays in enforcement are also normal because defense costs money, so until it generates revenue, there may be no way to defend. CMC would be right to insist their competitors pay the same fees they paid – otherwise, why pay?

  • Statement: DMD Sears is a Muslim company with provisional Buddhist license, family-owned and not affiliated with Mossberg. Therefore, we declare total surrender.

    • Mossberg and CMC are just digging themselves deeper and deeper.

  • Rick Radford

    I will withhold judgement until all of the facts are presented…….but if this is a case of Mossberg buying the patent and then coming after other companies that have been making their designed triggers, then Mossberg can go pound sand. This move, in my book, puts them in the same category as Troy Industries. Neither company will ever see a dime of my money, ever get a referral, or anything else.

  • TDog

    “We are a Christian company.”

    Um… okay… does that matter? Are they hoping that critics will be decried as godless heathens or something?

  • Lee

    Did they really have to play the Christian card like this?

  • Brian Fulmer

    Glad I haven’t bought CMC magazines in a long time, won’t be buying anything else from that brand. Retailers should know this. Mossberg hurts more to boycott, they have had some strange but cool guns (and not in a Taurus sense), but effing over firearms innovators with LITERALLY a bogus patent is beyond the pale.

    • Mark Brooks

      In what sense is it a bogus patent?

      • Brian Fulmer

        Look it up. “Modular trigger” in an AR vs a modular trigger in a half-dozen prior designs – H&K is run by a-holes but that doesn’t distract from the point. This is the gun design equivalent of the craptastic normal business process “with a computer” patents that have been clogging up the system for 30 years. Getting a patent is WAY too easy, hopefully this will get invalidated. Hell, a Garand has a “modular drop in trigger” design!

        • The patent is for this pretty specific implementation. Namely the exact implementation that every other drop in AR trigger uses, with the housing where the pins that the trigger and hammer ride on have holes to allow the receiver and hammer pins to through through it.

          This isn’t the broad “Clicking one button to order” patent that we seen in software.

          So IMO it is a valid patent. The only question is prior art, some are claiming that the Timney drop in AR trigger predates it, but I am not so sure.

        • Mark Brooks

          Patents aren’t usually enforced on general concepts but on details specific to the patent. It will come out in court I’m sure.

  • tazman66gt

    ” We are a Christian company, so, we are going to have Mossberg fight our battles for us while we remain on the moral high ground.”

  • Cal S.

    Well, I’m a Christian, but I wouldn’t say it in a formal statement for the same reason I don’t have a fish or a cross on my car. My actions are supposed to reflect him. Since they don’t all the time, no reason for others to know. Not that I’m a jerk, but I don’t need to be giving scoffers scoff-bait…

    • mazkact

      Right there with you. As a Christian This CMC thing does not bother though but I do not do business with any entity based on there religion(OK,honestly I try not to do business with Muslims……..sue me)
      I think that “fish” stickers should come with a bunch of paper work stating things like, “If you put this on your car don’t cut folks off or drive in a discourteous manner in any way”. It really bugs me when the person tailgating me finally gets around and cuts me off then I see an Ichthys decal on the vehicle.

      • iksnilol

        “(OK,honestly I try not to do business with Muslims……..sue me) ”

        Well, your loss, we got a bunch of PKMs coming in the next years due to the Ruskies replacing them with PKPs.

      • Simcha M.

        I’m with you, Maz. I’ll also go you one better: once on the 101 in Ventura, CA I was being tailgated and traffic was relatively light, too. When she eventually passed me up (and not very safely, either) the bumper sticker on her car read: “Abortion Stops a Beating Heart”. I muttered to myself: “Yeah; so does driving while angry”!!

    • Budogunner

      As a non-Christian, you are the kind of Christian I respect.

      • Mark Brooks

        It is evident you only respect silent Christians.

        • Emfourty Gasmask

          The loud ones always seem to push their book in my face at every opportunity, so. Can’t blame him.

          • Mark Brooks

            I don’t think you would blame him anyhow.

        • Budogunner

          I respect those who show their faith through solid deeds not hollow words. Words are cheap.

          • Mark Brooks

            That’s precisely what CMC Triggers did here. They are following the law. That’s their deed. They did what is right. And you hate them for it.

            What does your deed of mocking Christians through hollow words show about your faith?

      • Cal S.

        Thank you. That doesn’t mean I won’t witness to you, or speak out in public/politics about my beliefs. However, it does mean I won’t put myself out as a Christian when there’s a chance I will be found at fault for other things or when it really doesn’t have anything to do with my beliefs as a Christian.

        • Daniel

          As a Packer fan I will wear my Packer shirt any and every day of the week. I fail in my walk most days. That’s what the walk is about. I just don’t put a fish on my truck because i don’t think it will contribute to me making it to heaven. If people can’t see Christ influence in my life then i am not doing it right. This whole thread is pretty dumb in my opinion. If they had stated “AS AN AMERICAN COMPANY” we all would have understood what they meant. If they would have mentioned being Trans something they would have been applauded. They mention the C word and now they are boasting/judging/imposing/offending etc. They simply stated that to say “Here is where our point of view originates from”. Nothing was mentioned about person X being wrong or going to hell because their view points differ. I am a Christian. In some ways that means I won’t ever buy a Troy product, but it doesn’t mean I will buy a crap product because it has a fish on it. I do enjoy me some trijicon optics though.

        • Budogunner

          And that is the true Christian way. I believe Penn of Penn & Teller game said he appreciates when someone tries to witness to him. He says that if you truly hold those beliefs the only ethical and compassionate thing to do is try to save others.

          It is your adoption of your faith as a quiet way of life and a way to help people that wins the respect of others of all faiths. Wearing it as a badge, as this company did, is what puts a sour taste in the mouth.

          So, again, best wishes to you from a respectful non-Christian.

  • Victor Cachat

    I know the story has not been fully flesed out, but there is a smell there that I do not like.

    I was upset that the LGS was out of Mossberg Patriots when I wanted a .308 bolt action.
    Now I am glad I ended up with the T/C Venture instead.

  • Mike Burns

    Read between the lines of the statement – as I mentioned in the other thread, this will end in licensing agreements (it mentions royalties, which gives the game away). It’s possible that other mfg’s not mentioned in the suit are already paying royalties having previously concluded licensing agreements.

  • Jared

    Wow… What a bunch of biggots… I don’t read anything sinister in that comment. In fact I read one thing… He’s an honest man with an honest company with a proud tradition and belief structure. I look at that and I see someone that’s going to stand behind their product, even if it becomes “uncool” with the liberals that would have it taken off the market. He’ll stand behind it just like he stands behind his faith. I just don’t get how much everybody here seems to be getting hung up about it. If you don’t like it, ignore it. There are some things I don’t care about but could go off about it easily… I don’t care if it’s made in Texas… I prefer Idaho craftsman ship. But do I complain, no! I know they have a great product that resides in several of my firearms. I only wish I could afford to buy more. And yes because he says it a Christian company I do believe they have more values to get it done right with an obligation to the people he’s building his product for… And if you noticed the intent of the message in the first place instead of going off half cocked… He was saying he owes royalties to another company, and it’s a shame others want him to be immoral and disregard those obligations. Dang… How easily things are twisted

  • Bill

    I missed a lot of comments – I was out doing traffic control at a Gay Nazi Transgender Bikers For Christ Parade.

    • tazman66gt

      Picturing guys on scooters with sequined lederhosen and Village People mustaches in choreographed driving routines.

  • Mark Brooks

    Well unfortunately, it looks like TFB is allowing atheists full freedom to attack Christians, but moderates virtually anyone who responds.

    That’s disappointing, but it is the time we live in.

  • HKGuns

    I’ve found that those Christians who find it necessary to stake their reputations on their so called Christianity are those that bear the most scrutiny and almost always have something to hide.

    Christianity has nothing to do with this topic and it sticks out like a sore thumb in that statement.

  • Pedro .Persson

    Again how there could even be a patent for drop-in triggers? H&K has being doing that for decades now, several pistols could be argued to be like that, are they going to resurrect Fedor Tokarev and sue him as well? I mean I’m not expert on patents but don’t such things like prior art and enforceability matter to even be warranted a patent in the first place? Also can they even patent a common feature of guns to a specific model, like patenting the cup-holder on model X of car?

    • Mike Burns

      Because the patent is not just for “a drop-in trigger”. Read the independent claims, and all will become clear.

  • WateryWilly

    As the law is today, they have a valid point, and apparently CMC is paying royalties, but the rest are apparently not. This puts CMC at an obvious disadvantage.
    I disagree with quite a bit of patent law. Not that it should protect an inventor, that is definitely a good thing, but I don’t think it should extend to another party. In other words, I don’t think the patent should protect someone who buys a patent, it should only protect the original inventor(s). You want to “own” someone else’s patent? Get an exclusive-use license. But the original inventor would still be the only one able to bring suit against infringers. I fear corporations will do with patents what they have done with copyright law – make them valid basically forever. That stifles innovation, and was NOT the original intent of either patents or copyrights. It’s absolutely ridiculous that Walt Disney’s great-great-great grandchildren will still be making money from his early works. That’s just wrong.

  • Ahrion Gallegos

    The problem with the patent is that Mossberg hasn’t defended their rights for 9 freaking years. Since over 20+ companies make drop in trigger groups and it is by no means a secret, the defense would be “laches”.

    • Mike Burns

      From the register, Mossberg bought the patent in 2011. For all we know, they’ve been sending cease-and-desist letters around the place since then and been given the runaround by the infringers.

  • Vitor Roma

    Guys, instead of focusing on some lame religious discussion, let’s talk about how awful the whole patent system is. No one should have the right of confiscating other people money because they believe to have a monopoly on how to apply the laws pf physics.

  • MadMonkey

    Now I’m glad I don’t own anything from either company.

    Just had a student getting light strikes with a CMC trigger on XM193 ammo, too, so I doubt I ever will.

  • Big Burd

    CMC paying mossberg for a patent that is preceded by previously existing products and quite frankly wrongly awarded. I’m pretty sure Heckler and Koch and their trigger packs pretty much rule Mossbergs patent null and void.

  • David Koenig

    I’ve purchased several things like self bows from avowed Christian entrepreneurs, and I feel reasonably certain that I didn’t have to worry about Monday-Friday boo boos. So much B.S. here, that the interesting facts got missed. Does Mossberg only license this one outfit to make drop in triggers?? Or could the other’s pay a royalty and go on selling theirs?? The way I see it, Mossberg is charging someone with making an approved drop in trigger, using their patent, but the liability would probably remain with Mossberg? I would want to stay the heck out of any modifications to my products. Better yet, I wouldn’t even want to know about them. Does this Christian outfit, then, really have an exclusive license from O.F. Mossberg? If so, then they must have jumped through some quality control hoops to get and maintain it.

  • Marty Callan

    “Christian company” is shorthand for God honoring and honest. Jesus isn’t a denomination so it doesn’t matter if they are Protestant or not. Yes. Some companies use religion as a marketing tool, but “you will know them by their fruit.” CMC triggers passes that test. No one is perfect, but they have a record of being a solid company who puts out a quality product. All the “naysayers” need to examine themselves.

  • Kurt Eskildsen

    By stating that they are a Christian company they are only saying that their beliefs dictate that they do the right, lawful thing and stand with Mossberg and their legal right to royalties for use of their patent. They aren’t saying that they are better than anyone else, just that their faith dictates that they follow the legality of honoring Mossberg’s claim. I find it refreshing in a day and age where many companies would rather spend their time legal wrangling with loopholes to profit from others ideas without compensating them for it.

  • jonjon7465

    I will never buy a CMC or Mossberg product ever again. I will devote the rest of my life to slandering their name. In the name of the dark lord Satan.

  • CJS3

    A lot of superfluous talk about religion and as usual, the point is completely missed. “We pay our bills when they are due…” is the point. Mossberg is owed a royalty, they’re going after it. If you bought a rental property wouldn’t you expect the renters occupying it to pay you? Same thing. Not really sure where this CMC clown got on his high horse, and I don’t really care. It has nothing to do with the why of the suit, except to those who are easily led around like sheep.

    • Big Burd

      mossberg isn’t owed a royalty when they essentially copied HK’s drop in trigger packs and put a patent on it in 2007 while HK’s been making them since the late 50’s.

  • Michigunner

    So, does this mean the new motto for TFB is going to be “Fireams, not politics or religion”? This thread is a nightmare. I don’t read this blog to debate how the mention of Christianity in an official statement from a shooting sports business makes them more or less trustworthy, and I definitely don’t visit this site to read bible verses.
    I visit this site to read about, learn about and talk about firearms, and the comments section of each article usually provides valuable insight (and a little humor) about the topic.
    Unfortunately, this thread is no longer about firearms.

  • Guys lets tone it down a notch

  • Gunner4guy

    Mossberg just lost me as a future customer, so did CMC triggers. Keep your religious beliefs out, they mean nothing. ‘True believers’, as these folks sound like, have in my experience, been some of the most sanctimonious, back-biting, cheating folks around. Way too many of them I’ve been acquainted with in the past think the end justifies the means and have no qualms about using their religion(whichever it may be) to get there.
    CMC Triggers throwing their ‘Christianity’ in people’s faces to justify their righteousness’ turns me off – no need for it. And “shame on anyone that would spin negatively O.F. Mossberg exercising their right under law to collect royalties.” Really? So anyone who speaks badly(‘spins negatively’ I guess?) of Mossberg or the suit should be shamed? I would suggest what CMC Triggers could do with their statement but that might be considered in poor taste and ‘un-Christian’.

  • Ergo

    you may have a mossberg product and not know it. a couple of budget ar15 assemblers use their barrels.

  • Cuda

    Well after reading every post below, I think maybe 3 even touched on the merits or lack of doing this suit! So much for America when we can’t even debate a patent suit without getting totally sidetracked and hung uo on “we are a Christian company” without everyone’s minds exploding..yes I am a Christian also but how about we talk about the suit and what it does to the industry or how about research into what is covered…no lets just say screw all that and debate faith and who knows more scripture and if it is appropriate or not….country is already lost when gun lovers can’t even be cordial with each other

  • stephen@graceloveobey.com

    I think some people are getting butt hurt over the fact that this company says they are ‘christian’. I see this as a patent issue and not a religious issue. Now it they’re suing to corner the market and squeeze out small business then that is wrong. However if they’re protecting their intellectual property that’s fine with me.

    As a believer in the bible (not part of mainstream Christianity which consists of a pick and choose theology), its ok for them to say they’re a christian company. I don’t see it any different than saying they are a “Made in America” company or one that is ‘Veteran Owned & Operated”. Its a core belief that helps the company whether people like it or not. If they make a good product that is fine with me. However if a company said they were a muslim company, then I would not purchase anything from them, as is my freedom to do so. Why is that? I have a problem co-existing with those that want to cut off the heads of others, but that is just me.

    It will be interesting to see the outcome of this suit – I wonder just how much difference there needs to be in order to not infringe on another’s patent? 10%? 20%? Does anyone know?

  • Crusader06

    Who cares if they are Christian or not? I do not care to do business with companies that wear their religion on their sleeve.

    Wasn’t it two Baptist preachers in Knoxville busted over the weekend for soliciting sex from under age girls? Running up the Christian flag doesn’t hold the promise you are dealing with honest people.

  • From aliens:-)

  • J. Livaudais

    CMC makes great triggers, I have 2 of them. If they think that they are being wronged then they deserve their day in court. I don’t think the “Christian company” statement was needed, but someone at CMC did, so be it. Their Christian faith is not and will on trial (except maybe here), but this issue will be decided by how the law is interpreted. Whether you or I like the law or not is irrelevant. Hopefully the court will determine what free and fair competition means in this case.

  • Calvin Henderson

    Mossberg pays for the patent rights. Mossberg now owns the right. Quite simple.
    If I find a gold mine and sell it to you, then will it be ok for others to tunnel in from elsewhere and mine it?

  • Save the Veggies

    Crap guys what’s with the Holy war in the comments section? They were just saying it was as much a moral obligation to pay the royalties as it is business obligation. They paid their dues unlike the others so Mossberg has no beef to go after them. Frankly other than selling a good bang around shotgun I think Mossberg is just trying to figure out some way to make money.

  • NebulousCat

    I say stop buying CMC triggers and put them out of business so they are not around to sue other trigger compnaies.

  • Thadius814

    Do you work for CMC? 🙂

    • Mark Brooks

      Nope. And I can’t see why that would matter, either.

  • jaimeintexas

    Without CMC publicly stating why it chose introduced itself as a Christian company, we are all just guessing at its reasons and Biblical underpining.
    My guess for CMC’s self-identification as a Christian company, leaving aside that only a human being can be a Christian, has to do with the Biblical priniple of trying to resolve disputes personally before going begore a judge in a court of law.
    New information that a Tiwanese trigger group was invented around 1998 should now play role whether to continue the lawsuit.
    Christians, and I am a Christian, do make mistakes too.
    We shall see what happens.

  • uisconfruzed

    That’s nice of you CMC.
    We’re sick and tired of a litigious society!
    I’m glad I own three of Bill’s handiwork.
    “THE GEISSELE MISSION
    To prove, every day, that the Golden Rule works: “Do to others as you would have them do to you” Luke 6:31.”

  • uisconfruzed

    Brooks, do you live in Myrtle?

  • Anthony “stalker6recon”

    I said the same thing on the other post that I am about to say here, and CMC, you should pay attention.

    This lawsuit is dumb. Why is it dumb? Because it basically is the same as car manufacturers suing every aftermarket company out there, for selling parts that use the existing bolts to place them in the car. Think wheels for instance, they should be sued for using lug nuts. Same for headers, carburetors and the list goes on and on.

    Mossberg just lost my money, and CMC, I don’t care what religion you are, it makes no difference to me, unless you advocate the murder of individuals who don’t share your beliefs. You also have lost my money as well.

    It is this kind of stupidity that has ruined the country, until there is a law that penalizes those who file frivolous lawsuits, including the lawyers dumb enough to accept such cases, we will be mired in this money driven (greed for you christians at CMC) lawsuits that destroy the lives of others with less cash to throw at your army of lawyers. This is about the most unchristian act one can engage in.

  • LT Rusty

    The Bible commands charity, and if you think Jesus took a dim view of being ostentatious about following his commands for gains in something as intangible as public opinion, then why would you expect that he’d be any happier about people using their faith as a lever to pry open someone’s wallet for actual financial gain?

    I mean, I get the idea that he doesn’t want you to hide your light, etc., but I can’t think that he’d want people to just be directly profiting from the use his name, either.

    • Mark Brooks

      Why build a strawman? CMC Triggers directly profits by selling a product. That is where their profits come from. However, they glorify Christ in well-doing. To glorify Christ in all a Christian does is commanded by the Bible, not condemned:

      “Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
      –1 Corinthians 10:31.

      “Whatever you do, in word or in deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father, through him.”
      –Colossians 3:17.

      “As each has received a gift, employ it in serving one another, as good managers of the grace of God in its various forms. If
      anyone speaks, let it be as it were the very words of God. If anyone
      serves, let it be as of the strength which God supplies, that in all
      things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the
      glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.”
      –1 Peter 4:10-11.

      “Then six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, who had been dead, whom he raised from the dead. So they made him a supper there. Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with him. Mary,
      therefore, took a pound of ointment of pure nard, very precious, and
      anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair. The house
      was filled with the fragrance of the ointment. Then Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, one of his disciples, who would betray him, said, ‘Why wasn’t this ointment sold for three hundred denarii, and given to the poor?’ Now
      he said this, not because he cared for the poor, but because he was a
      thief, and having the money box, used to steal what was put into it. But Jesus said, ‘Leave her alone. She has kept this for the day of my burial. For you always have the poor with you, but you don’t always have me.'”
      –John 12:1-8

      Who are you to judge another man’s servant? To his own lord, he stands or falls.

      Are you a Christian LT Rusty? Then you should know that you aren’t to judge a brother over debatable things. And if you are not, who are you to tell a Christian how they should glorify their Lord?

      • LT Rusty

        It’s not a straw man at all, and the passages you cite above are not really quite directly relevant. Yes, a Christian should be doing all things to the glory of his or her God, but there’s a difference between being open about your faith and witnessing for it and using your faith as an advertisement with the intent to make money based on it in an area that is completely unrelated to faith / religion. I mean, obviously, a company that sells sacramental wine or something is making money off someone else’s faith, but it’s a completely different thing than using religion to promote a completely unrelated business.

        I personally don’t care what someone’s religious beliefs are- if they provide a solid product or service that I need, I’ll buy from them whether they’re Christian, Muslim, Satanist, whatever. It simply doesn’t matter to me.

        • Mark Brooks

          A Christian’s faith and witness isn’t their business, LT Rusty. It is who they are. Perhaps you should read my scripture citations again. Atheists may expect Christians to stop being Christians outside of church, but that isn’t what Christians do, nor is it what they are required to do.

          “using your faith as an advertisement with the intent to make money based
          on it in an area that is completely unrelated to faith / religion.”

          A false characterization. It looks like a smear. We both know you can’t read minds, so you have no basis to assert any “intention” on the part of CMC Triggers beyond what they have said.

          You can’t actually cite any “on point” scripture to support your position, and you don’t appear to be a Christian, so perhaps you should leave the ethics of conducting a business as a Christian to Christians and stop trying to tell them how to handle their own affairs.

  • Tinklebell

    Am I really the only non-Christian around here who didn’t immediately notice the statement about being a Christian company? Man, you guys are really making a big deal out of that, more so than the actual content of the article.

  • well, cmc lost any business i might have given them with that intolerant preface to the statement. anyone who can’t see that it clearly means that any non-christian business is sub-standard is rowing a canoe on da nile. as did eotech when it was discovered they were putting bible verses on their crap. of course, later they were found to be defrauding the government. now that’s more an example of a christian company–insult any non-believers and ignore jesus’ many direct commands to not be greedy.

    /guy

    • Actuallh, it was Trijicon putting Bible verse citations on their sights. Which they took care of as soon as the government objected. (Frankly, since they had *always* put those types of Bible cites on their products, the government tested and *bought* them like that, and the contracts didn’t state they had to remove them – which would have been an extra expense, since it would have required them to alter the tooling- I can sympathize with Trijicon not seeing it as a problem until the government objected.)

      EOTech is a different company and a wholly different problem, in that they *knowingly* kept selling the government sights with up to *12MOA* drift.

  • Winston Buie

    Mossberg bought the patent…they didn’t innovate anything… i’m a Christian…so what

  • patent law is exactly as absurd and insane and unsustainable as copyright law and as religious law. /guy

  • DB

    Mark has it the way it’s supposed to be, to the best of my knowledge. I am proud to be a Christian, and spreading the word of our GOD is what is supposed to be done by Christians, which I will always do to the best of my ability. I will also continue to learn more about my LORD and SAVIOR, and spread his word without shame! Stating you’re a Christian does not condemn you, it brings GOD joy to know you are not ashamed to be known as HIS! I, my Friends, am proud to be a Christian, and have no problem spreading that information to anyone. I want to live my life to the best of my ability to serve HIM. We all may sin, but I, as does any believer, through faith, have a SAVIOR through the LORD, JESUS CHRIST, who died on the cross for our sins, giving me everlasting life! If this Greaf Country of ours would follow their religion, and do their best to live as a Christian, we would not be in the mess we’re in! GOD BLESS!!

  • jesus told the sheep to pray in their closets, but as usual they ignore him and worship the ignoramus imposter saul who killed off the movement long ago by simply faking an epiphany. not only trump but religion loves the ‘poorly educated’. /guy

  • DaveGinOly

    Your argument sounds like those who argue that the 2nd Amendment only “guarantees the right of the States to have militias.” The Bible stories you mention may specifically be about charitable acts, but that does not mean that flaunting your beliefs in order to gain attention for yourself is OK so long as it’s done in another context. Indeed, if it’s done as part of an attempt to enrich yourself, then it doesn’t even have the collateral effect of assisting a person in need. Do you think Jesus would condemn assistance to the needy if done for the wrong reasons, but would approve of using one’s identity as a believer in him to enrich oneself, not even providing a benefit to others as a side effect? The point of the stories is that it’s not OK to do something good if it’s done for the wrong reasons. Stephen and Paul did’t proclaim their faith in Jesus in order to promote a business or increase their worldly profits. (Ha! I almost wrote “worldly prophets”!)

  • DaveGinOly

    Jesus said it was wrong to do something righteous (charitably giving) for the wrong reasons (e.g., attempting to elevate one’s status in the community). By flaunting Christian beliefs in official statements, advertising, and branding, as many firearms and firearms accessory makers do, they are doing something righteous (witnessing for their belief) for the wrong reason (to promote their standing in the marketplace in order to boost their worldly profits).

    • Mark Brooks

      “You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.”

      One can allegorize scripture to support almost anything, particularly if you excise that scripture from its context and ignore other scripture.

  • Richard Clarke

    And in the book of James it is argued the light of that lamp is their actions, not their professed words or belief.

  • all the idiots quoting dueling bible verses are only showing the futility of using it for anything other than firewood or, my favorite, toilet paper. you are rightly and accurately called ‘sheep’. ‘fish’ is too good for you. /guy

  • You have the right to your opinion but lets keep controversial statements such as the one I removed from your comment to yourself. It doesn’t add to the discussion and insults other readers who don’t share your views.
    I found you statement personally offensive. Normally I don’t express a personal view but this is one of the worst I’ve seen—ever!

    • sorry, but if that’s the worst you’ve heard, maybe you should enter into more dialogues with those who dislike the specter of religious law no matter the religion behind pushing for it.

      as to the ‘insult’ to a deity i don’t even believe in to begin with, the gnostics think that ‘he’ is the demiurge–the ultimate enemy of humanity and the source of evil (which ‘he’ admits in the bible that few have read) and i suspect they have it about right. if he existed, that is. [g]

      /guy

  • Milk Manson

    I learned it from you.