Full Auto 9mm AR In Taiwan

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Yesterday Apple Daily News in Taiwan reported a story about a gun being used during a crime. Firearms in most of Asia are very difficult to obtain. Aside from the Philippines, it is almost impossible and in most cases using one illegally is an automatic death sentence.

Well here is what happened. A guy owed another guy money, I assume some form of loan shark. He got beat up for owing that money. The debtor decides to get revenge and word gets out to the loan shark. The loan shark calls up his buddies and one of them was armed with this 9mm AR.

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If you look closely the lower says Spikes Tactical. However the PDW style stock looks like the Airsoft stock by VFC/Umarex on their HK416C. Which you can see an image below.

 

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As far as I know that style PDW stock does not exist in the real steel AR world. Most importantly the method in which that stock is attached, it is not possible for a buffer to be used in that setup. That style stock is all for looks and does not attach nor function as a buffer tube for a real AR.

 

Aside from the dubious nature of the weapon used in the crime, the story of the shooter is just as silly. The shooter is a friend of the loan shark. They chased the victim in two separate cars. While trying to shoot the victim one of the loan shark friends drove in the path of the bullets. He shot the friendly car and killed the driver. He shot the victim’s car as well missing the victim and shot the victim’s friend in both legs. The gun was set to full auto and he had a difficult time controlling it. His excuse was “I don’t read English well so I did not know the gun was set to full auto”

The story is bizarre. Sure there is corruption and crime in many places. But to go after a guy who owes you money with an illegal weapon such as this, is mind boggling. I am curious to see if the AR is truly a real AR or a converted airsoft gun to shoot real bullets.


Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Can you actually convert AS guns to F/A?

    • Edeco

      Don’t know for sure, I think it’s mostly the usual tempest in a teapot hysteria. I doubt it could be made to function like a real gas AR. But as a tube for an open-bolt straight-blowback thing, you know, maybe…

    • wartzilla

      No. You could potentially take the guts of an AR and place them inside airsoft receiver replicas, if these receivers were actually made to spec (they aren’t, you would need to machine them and perhaps weld), but these receivers are often made out of plastic or zinc and would break within a few shots. The barrel is a skinny brass or aluminium affair akin to what you would use for a blowpipe, but only 6mm in diameter. It cannot be used for any ballistic purpose whatsoever.

      In reality, you would need an entire functional AR in order to ‘convert’ an airsoft gun into anything resembling a firearm.

      • TheNotoriousIUD

        Yeah, definitely way easier to just convert a real AR that wont blow up in your face.

    • ClintTorres

      An AS lower will not house the FCG of an AR and neither will an AS upper house an AR BCG.

    • Sebastian Shen

      Absolutely not, if so, you almost order the entire internal parts from molding and CNC factory. However, it’s an easy thing from the bad guys in Taiwan lol

  • Andrew

    How can you be a firearms industry blogger and think that’s a stock from an airsoft gun that “doesn’t even exist in the real steel AR world???” There are numerous companies (Troy, Battle Arms Development, Cross Machine & Tool, North Eastern Arms, MVB Industries, among others) that make PDW stocks like that, and have for several years now. They were all over Shot Show again this year, all over the internet, and have even been blogged about HERE many times.

    “That style stock is all for looks and does not attach nor function as a buffer tube for a real AR.”

    lol

    • Twilight sparkle

      The tubes on all of those stocks are conciderably longer than this one though. I remember reading about one that included a bolt carrier group that had a built in buffer which might be this short but Ive got no idea who made it.

    • SCW

      He meant that specific stock, not the style.

      • Nicholas Chen

        Thank you. Yes. That specific stock is not made for real ARs.

  • Squirrle

    I’d say its likely that they put Airsoft parts on a real steel AR 9mm. Some of those parts are strong enough to handle the real steel, at least for a little while.

    • In the particular case of this 9mm AR-15, that stock would be a particularly bad choice. Those collapsible stocks typically require cut-down BCGs with integrated buffers… the BCG would hit it REALLY hard, even with a decent spring. They’d be battered to death in short order.

      • Sianmink

        A blowback 9mm AR doesn’t necessarily need the buffer tube at all.

        • thedonn007

          Not to fire, but it would be needed to return the bolt back to strip a round from the magazine and to chamber said round

          • Ben

            No, many of the 9mm ARs have the buffer spring contained entirely in the upper receiver. You could use a flat plug as a receiver extension and it would work.

          • Could you give an example of 9MM AR’s that dont require a buffer tube? That would make for handy folding PDW.

          • Ben

            Patriot Ordinance Factory announced one last shot show, called the Patriot Sub Gun. MSRP was supposed to be $999. I can’t find it on their website now though, so I’m not sure what is happening there.

          • Sianmink

            Most of the ones I see have a fixed bolt carrier, and the bolt recoils within its footprint. No buffer tube needed.

          • thedonn007

            Mine uses the buffer just like a standard 5.56 caliber AR-15.

          • That’s not how the Colt system works, which is how 99% of the 9mm AR-15s on the market work. Be specific. Who exactly is making a 9mm BCG and spring that don’t require a buffer tube?

            What you’re describing is how a 22lr AR-15 works. That system isn’t going to scale to 9mm.

    • aka_mythos

      In a number of countries where airsoft is ok and real guns aren’t it’s common to see airsoft furniture being adapted to work on illegal “real steel” guns and many of the boutique accessories makers take pride in themselves for making accessories as close to the “real” thing.

      There is an amount of cross pollination in the industry between airsoft and firearm accessories now. A number of firearms accessory makers produce for both, having started in one and moving into the other.

  • DAN V.

    Fudd operator. Wth is the point of a flip up front without a rear buis?

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      How are you supposed to see the front sight with a rear sight in the way?
      Hand in your Mall Team Six patch.

    • Jeff Smith

      If your optic cowitnesses with your sights, you can use your optic (when turned off/broken/inoperable) and your front sight as a ghost ring sight that’s decently effective on human sized targets out to 50 years or so. Not the most accurate setup in the world, but it works in a pinch.

      That being said, I doubt it would work too well with the optic pictures, as it’s not a circular bodied optic.

      • Stanley Rabbid

        You’re telling me that using a red dot/front sight combo will give a gun’s bullets time-travelling capabilities?

        • Thirst_quencheR

          Nope, it only works on people under 50, duh.

        • Twilight sparkle

          This person was trying to say that a tubular red dot like an aimpoint t1 that is in an absolute co-witness mount can be used as an oversized ghost ring rear sight.

          But that statement really had little to do with this rifle

        • Jeff Smith

          That, too. It’s all rather complex. Give it a try!

        • KestrelBike

          this is an awesome article for threads haha

        • MichaelZWilliamson

          Sure. Haven’t you ever put instant coffee in a microwave and had it ready before you opened the door?

      • DAN V.

        I hear you; but have you ever seen someone use that set up on purpose?

        • Jeff Smith

          I got the idea from the Mr. Guns and Gear YouTube channel. He demonstrates the concept in one of his videos on setting up BUIS. I’ve never tried it myself, but it seems to work for short (in side 50ish yards) distances for him.

    • Core

      You can actually aim fairly well with just a front sight and a cheek weld. Just like a shotgun.

  • blobface

    I only thing I got out from this article is that I want to spend some money @ Evike. Not sure why.

  • Caffeinated

    It looks like a modified airsoft lower as the markings appear to be laser engraved and would not meet ATF marking requirements. The bolt visible in one of the pictures is likely indigenously produced. It doesn’t look like anything made available on the US market. That same machine shop could have machined out an airsoft upper as well.

    The magazine doesn’t appear to be anything on the US market either.

    • George

      Laser markings are fine, as long as you stamp the serial number and manufacturer…

      • Caffeinated

        There’s a bigger picture if you follow the link. It appears everything is laser engraved.

    • Hellbilly

      Looks legit to me. Notice the oil seeping from the fire control group pins, the hammer is forward (trigger is rearward slightly and the selector lever is on fire since it cannot be placed on safe while the hammer is forward), the flash suppressor is not timed correctly likely due to the lack of a crush washer, and you can see the pins holding in the 9mm conversion block at the front of the magazine well.

  • WT

    The real question is are Spikes Tactical sourcing parts in Taiwan/China?

  • tony

    the importance of bilingual education…

    • nadnerbus

      HK selector pictograms save lives.

  • Kwong

    In fact there is a gas operated HK416C model that takes a “standard” sized BCG (as with other gas AR rifle do).
    BCG travels at least far back enough to an empty hold-open position.

    The “fun” part is a miniature captured buffer spring assy which looks like the Silent Buffer Spring from JP Rifles, the guide rod “pokes” into the hole on the rear end of BCG.

    The spring loaded guide rod also pokes out a tip to act as a mini eject for the stock when released from collapsed position.

  • Andrew

    Happens ALL THE TIME, eh? Ok, show us proof then. The article you linked is nothing but a two bit journalist who doesn’t know the first thing about guns SAYING it supposedly can be done. And then a two bit gung-ho rookie ATF agent listened to that BS and seized a shipment of 30 airsoft guns that were en route to an AIRSOFT STORE in the US (at a cost of $1,100 each). Why would anyone in the US “convert” an $1,100 airsoft gun (even if they could), when they can buy TWO ready to rock real deal AR15s for that much $$$? Please, enlighten us, oh master of airsoft to firearm conversions that happen all the time…

  • Mr. FN

    As a guy who spent 6+ years in airsoft and learned how to assemble a lot of my AR-15 (through youtube too, credit to nsz85) through my airsoft gas blowback G&P M4:

    NO. Just straight up no. The dimensions are off in almost every single way, and thats for a GBB. An electric gun is even worse, as a lot of the strength of the gun comes from a metal gearbox.
    Back to the G&P, the barrel has no way of really tightening anywhere near the minimum 30 foot-lbs, the receiver is, again, off in every which way (the bolt hold open, for instance, is a blocked unit that has a large cavity that it slides into about half an inch tall), and the weight is so low that I’d wager the BCG I have in my AR weighs more or the same as the stripped receiver set of my G&P.

    It can’t be done. Even if you wanted to, there’s no point in trying to make an airsoft gun that could fire a real cartridge maybe once than just getting a flipping single shot that was made to do so. This ridiculous myth needs to stop.

  • Mr. FN

    Also, in your silly article, it says all one must do is “drill a hole” I’d imagine they mean the hole for the sear and sear pin.

    Which (realistically, it’s stupid not to) every airsoft m4 thats powered by gas has. I can show you the auto sear in mine. And I forgot to mention, G&P’s are some of the most realistic GBB m4s one can get for less than $500. Please educate yourself.

  • kyle

    As a frequent airsoft player it would not work with the VFC. The stocks dont fit quite the same as the real firearms and people often wire them for batteries. However a WE 888c might potentially work as its designed to be cycled into by the action of the airsoft gun and other we gbbr platforms can fit real buffers so its potentially cross compatible until it blows up in your face.

  • TC

    Why are you posting this? Please stick to stories about real guns.

    • Twilight sparkle

      This is supposed to be a real gun that’s been made from air soft parts

  • Bart

    Firearms aren’t that uncommon in Thailand, especially for middle to upper class people.

    • Mutenri

      Wrong country.

      • Sebastian Shen

        so wrong

      • Bart

        Dude – I know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand!

        My response was in reference to these lines in the article:

        “Firearms in most of Asia are very difficult to obtain. Aside from the Philippines, it is almost impossible and in most cases using one illegally is an automatic death sentence.”
        Thailand is one country in Asia where firearms are somewhat accessible.

  • TCBA_Joe

    Occam’s razor. The seriously limited run of the HK stock bought by a foreign SOCOM element means that most likely it’s a Taiwanese-made airsoft part. To say that it could be the real part is a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit of a stretch.

    • Blake Cicheskie

      It’s not as unlikely as you might think. Those stocks were known to make the 416 less reliable and that’s why HK dropped them. I can picture a scenario where someone in that SOCOM unit ditched the stock in favor of a more traditional style. Somehow the PDW stock then made it into the well established Filipino firearms black market. Then it made the relatively short jump over to Taiwan… Improbable but not a huge stretch.

  • LazyReader

    Execute criminals that use guns in crimes…
    Why didn’t we think of that?

  • Core

    How the heck do you convert a airsoft to a real sub gun? I call bs. The lower looks fishy, but I can’t see enough detail.

    • Anon. E Maus

      If anything it’s plausible that it’s a mix of parts.

      You couldn’t use a GBB receiver or bolt, but things like grips, rails, stocks, etc, it’s plausible you could use that for a short time. Your average crook can’t just go to a range and practice with their gun or necessarily get ammo whenever they want, so the inherent weakness of these things is probably not apparent, since they get shot very little.

      There’s this illegal brand of machinepistols that has cropped up in Eastern Europe for a while, it uses Uzi magazines, but more interesting is that they’re commonly found with the laser sighting module that’s often sold for Walther branded .177 caliber pellet guns and 6mm BB airsoft guns, it even still has the little Walther banner on it.

  • Core

    This really debunks the myth that Asian nations with strict gun control don’t see gun related crime..

  • Sebastian Shen

    @nicholaschen:disqus
    Dear sir, have been an employee in airsoft industry in Taiwan for a decade, whatever AEG(motor drive) or GBB(gas drive with blowback device), they cannot be converted to fire the live ammo. Unless making a molding parts from a serious factory, not only one of my friends did see the bolt carriers and slides which can content the bolt and fire pin for GBB in mold factory… I can see the airsoft industry falling because that the authority gonna restrict it with the name of national security and crime prevention in the near future. Bad guys holding illegal guns kill legal guns, it happens around this planet.