Glock Demanding Customer Private Info

Trop

A local PA store, Trop Guns, has disinclined to acquiesce to Glock’s request to review their 4473s. The request is in regards to Glock’s Blue Label program. The BLP is a discount progam for active Law Enforcement and Military to purchase Glock pistols at a discount. At the moment, due to Trop Gun’s refusal, they have been booted out of the Blue Label program.

According to Lancaster Online:

Phil Groff, Trop’s national sales manager, said the store was kicked out of the program after he refused to allow Glock to review federal forms Blue Label Program customers filled out when they bought guns from Trop.

‘We were not going to provide that information to a private company, no matter what,’ Groff said.

As a PA resident, anyone who purchases a pistol must fill out two forms at the minimum. The Federal 4473 and a State Record Of Sale form required by the state police. It is not technically a form of registry but a copy is sent to the state police for them to file. So call it what you will.

The Lancaster Article mentions the 4473:

Every person buying a gun from a store in the U.S. fills one out. It requires the buyer to list either a Social Security number or a unique personal identification number, among other personal information.

This is false. As many of you know, the 4473 does not require a SSN or UPIN. These are always optional on the 4473 as well as the PA State Record Of Sale form.

According to the Lancaster Online article, the Blue Label Program has their own form with which Glock could request and review. The 4473 forms and the State Record of Sale are not part of that purview and to hand them over would violate state and federal law.

For more infomation go to the Lancaster Online article here.

Here is Trop Guns’ announcement on their website.

I am curious though, if this action from Glock is in anyway related to the Blue Label Glock straw purchase that happened last year. If i recall correctly, the Uncle lived in PA. Here is the article we wrote on that fiasco.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Trent Russell

    “the Blue Label Program has their own form with which Glock could request and review.”

    So is the vendor not holding up their end of the bargain with completing these forms or what?

    • J.T.

      From what I understand, Glock wants to send a person to the dealer to check that the name on the blue label form (and the proof of eligibility that is with it) is the same as the name on the 4473 and this is something that the dealer had to agreed they would let Glock do when they joined the program.

  • kw

    Obviously more to this story, Glock must be suspicious of their activity for some reason. If review of the forms is part of your agreement with Glock, then they have the right to review and verify your sales are legitimate. This headline is a bit deceptive.

    • Nicholas Chen

      Perhaps it was not clear in my article. The Glock rep is demanding to see the 4473s and SRS of the customer’s that bought guns through the Blue Label Program. Those are NOT a part of the blue label program forms. The Blue Label Program forms do not have social security information but the 4473 and SRS may have them if the buyer opted to put them down.

      • jonjon7465

        Its obvious to me and a lot of other reader’s that Tros is abusing the program. I doubt glocks woke up one day and decided target them. I’d like to see that angle looked into a little more rather than listening to these anti LE “Obamas the the Antichrist” nutjobs tell me how the the governments trying to convert their children to Islam.

      • Core

        For some reason the same knucklheads keep chiming in on the semantics, but still seem to be oblivious to the fact that Glock should not have access to the 4473 form.

  • Will Griffin

    Yeah I totally believe there’s more to the story. There’s always two sides and we’ve only heard one. Honestly it sounds like somebody got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Abusing the program.

    • glasswolf

      Don’t. I’ve had to work with Glock as a reseller, and with the BLP (we’re also an FN LE dealer and class III mfg.) This is right in-line with Glock’s typical antics with their dealers.

    • Paul White

      I’ve heard repeatedly that GLock’s an 800 lb gorilla and KNOWS IT. And takes advantage of it. So I’m not sure.

  • TITAN308

    Clickbait article title. TFB should be better than that.

    • Nicholas Chen

      How so? Glock is demanding info and if you read the article, you can see how and where they do.

      • Because it’s not 100% pro-Glock, and some people get their pannies in a twist over that.

        • TITAN308

          I don’t own any Glocks. Try again.

          • Drew

            Go home Gaston.

  • Mother Nature’s Son

    ithaca gun was offering a free manual for the older guns, but they wanted a complete registration form filled out.
    please, the PDF is online.

  • glasswolf

    The Class III manufacturer/reseller I work for was also blacklisted by Gloc for similar capricious BS. Glock, for all their retail and LE popularity, are really a huge bunch of D-bags to work with. They love to use underhanded, and strong-arm methods to get their way, often doing so to skirt regulations, or force their resellers to do as they wish, including eliminating any competition that reseller may stock.

    • Spock

      Buy from another manufacturer who premises to honor your constitutional rights. Glock has been owned by the left and they should be held accountable.

  • Herp

    “has disinclined to acquiesce to Glock’s request”

    You mean IS disinclined. Pretty ironic considering the line was lifted from a movie where the characters were showing off their rhetorical abilities. But then, if that was your intent, you wouldn’t have lifted the line from a movie as popular as Pirates of the Caribbean, right? RIGHT?

    • Nicholas Chen

      Nah, im not above quoting movies. LOL

      • NedBeatty2

        Me either… “are you talking to me? You must be, because I’m the only one here???”

    • DIR911911 .

      “is disinclined” or a simple “has declined” . . . 🙂

    • Paul White

      One of the most fun movies in the last 10 years!

    • valorius

      im pretty sure he was deliberately quoting the movie, and probably did so from memory.

      Cut a fella some slack.

  • A.WChuck

    “According to the Lancaster Online article, the Blue Label Program has
    their own form with which Glock could request and review. The 4473 forms
    and the State Record of Sale are not part of that purview and to hand
    them over would violate state and federal law.”

    Glock has their own form which is all they are entitled to request and receive. The 4473 and SRS are NONE of their business.

  • EzGoingKev

    I have no direct knowledge of why Glock is asking for this information. This is a guess on my part.

    The BLP is a program for LEO’s. IIRC it is a reduced price and an additional magazine (3 vs 2). The magazines are all high caps.

    I have read posts from non-LEO’s stating their Glock is a BLP and they got it at a great price. I have seen some complain that they did not get the additional magazine.

    I am wondering if this store had an irregularly high rate of BLP sales which caught Glock’s attention. Glock is looking for the state forms so they can compare it to the paperwork the store submitted for verification purposes.

    Again, I have no firsthand knowledge of this. Just thinking out loud.

    • allannon

      I don’t think anyone disagrees that Glock has a right to make sure their LEO program is being correctly applied. The issue is that Glock requested forms to which they have no right, and might be illegal for the shop to disclose.

    • BryanS

      The magazines are all standard capacity for the platform.

      • NedBeatty2

        High capacity implies that there is some stigma to the magazine for being large, don’t use the term.

    • john huscio

      Don’t forget night sights

      • NedBeatty2

        Every new SIG I have bought recently came with nights sights standard.

  • Sickshooter0

    I don’t fault Glock for trying to enforce their BLP but where on the 4473 is there any question related that could remotely apply to Glock’s BLP? Perhaps another form of ID should be required for the BLP? Even Microsoft won’t sell a “Student or Teacher” release of software without a valid school ID.

    • J.T.

      From what I understand, after reading what both sides have said about this mess it seems to work something like this. When a blue label gun is sold, a form is filled out and a copy is made of a form of identification that shows the person is eligible (police ID, Military ID, EMT card, etc.) and copies of those are sent to Glock. What Glock does is they audit stores to check that the name on the 4473 is the same name on the blue label forms that were sent to them, to show the dealer isn’t letting someone who is eligible fill out the blue label forms to get a discount for a friend or family member who then fills out the 4473 and receives the gun from the dealer. According to Glock, the audits are one of the requirements the dealers must agree to when joining the blue label program.

      • Jeff Smith

        This is what I was assuming. The police discount is pretty steep – a local store that offers the discount charges $400 for officers and $550 for everyone else. I imagine quite a few people have gotten that idea.

        • NedBeatty2

          And, the real question should be, why does glock overcharge the rest of us???

          Don’t we work, pay taxes, hide behind the blue wall, shoot people in the back as they run away?

          No, I guess not.

          • sean

            blue label are tax exempt, so its not Glock that is “overcharging”, its the Government not taking their piece of the pie because its being used for that persons job…Its like people declaring stuff on their taxes because they need it for work

          • Abram

            So a company selling something at a discount to one person and not another…is wrong?
            To do it as a ‘thank you for your service’, to drum up business in a specific industry, for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with you. Get over yourself.

          • NedBeatty2

            Ridiculous argument, these are not duty weapons, in one case the LE purchaser was charged and convicted of a straw purchase because he bought it for his uncle.

            And yes, there is something very wrong with a public business giving discounts to certain people.

            What if “Popeyes” charged black folk 50 percent less for their food?

            How long would that last without a legal challenge?

    • NedBeatty2

      Microsoft won’t sell without a student ID??? Yeah right, just go to ebay and you can find their software and many others all being sold as “student only”.

      How about you get the serial number of the pistol tattooed on your arm, and send a picture of it in?

    • Core

      You cant extract confidential information from a facsimile of a school identification so that logic is moot. A drivers license would also be too invasive. The bottom line is a company doesnt need access to individuals personal information that could be used in some way to identify and target the individual now or fifty years down the road. The issue could be resolved by only selling to department letterhead. Glock wont do it because departments wont want the liability of authorizing private gun sales. The Blue Label program itself goes against everything our forefathers instilled into the Constituion and Second Amendment. We have to aknowledge the sales occur in this nation and must abide by Constitutional law. A reporting system that requires registration, and allows certain populations to purchase firearms at reduced prices by a private fireign entity?

  • BryanS

    From Joshua Prince’s facebook page (a very pro firearms lawyer):

    “WOOHOO just got a threatening letter from Glock’s attorney demanding
    that FICG, Prince Law Offices, Adam Kraut and myself immediately cease
    and desist blogging or otherwise discussing Glock defamation of Trop and
    other related issues. Guess the truth hurts and they don’t support the
    1st Amendment. It’s about get fun…”

    • Bill

      Defamation? Really? A court order makes GLOCK anti-1a, the first court order any neophyte lawyer would file in a situation like this?

      I’m eligible under this program, never used it, but it galls me when people get a sense of entitlement. There is plenty of opportunity for abuse, and better the industry police itself than have the .gov do it for them. Next time GLOCK will just file a public records request or go straight to the ATF under the FOIA to see who is buying their guns. Why shouldn’t GLOCK just say “fine, no breaks for anyone,” which I believe includes vets and members of the military, but I may be wrong, I know the list includes paramedics and airline FDOs.

      This is reminiscent of the SIG brace debacle; we are our own worst enemies.

      • NedBeatty2

        The people who have a sense of entitlement are the Barney Fifes, and Fred Flintstone volunteer fireman who feel that they are are deserving of a discount, that “Ordinary people” aren’t, and thats paraphrased from Josh Princes website, he’s the “Neophyte” lawyer your refer to, who has been suing the ass of of any town in PA, who violate state firearm pre-emption laws..

        Things like towns who restrict carry in parks, or, hes fighting for a man, whose firearms, LOTS of firearms were confiscated, and the county wants 1200 bucks in fees for him to get them back, even though the person who filed the PFA lied about stolen guns, and when reviewed by a judge, the PFA was tossed as meritless, but he still is paying for a legal wrongdoing with no fault of his own.

        I no longer consider LEO’s as “from the people” as Peel stated in his rules for policing, because you all consider yourself above the common man, or “ORDINARY PEOPLE” as the one LE diva stated, if there is any seperation, or any one group that is our own worst enemies, its the people who can kill without question or review.

        Hence, why places like Baltimore burn.

        • Chuck Haggard

          The real issue I see is the gun community jumping on the “jack booted thugs” band wagon and buying into the anti-cop narrative, buying into the “Us vs Them” mentality. Over my career I have found that the vast majority of the street level guys, not the Chiefs but the real cops, have been pro 2A. Comments such as yours in no way helps things out, not is such BS anymore justified than burning down on’es one neighborhood because you think you have some sort of grievance.

          I was a street cop for 28+ years, I’m also a Life NRA member, and I have put my career on the line in the past to speak up for gun rights such as CCH in my state, and doing away with state bans on class 3 weapons, when my Chief at the time was against it. I in no way think I am above anyone, nor do any of the guys I worked with at my job.
          Your painting of an entire profession with a very wide brush and buying into a bullshit stereotype is just another form of bigotry.

          • NedBeatty2

            Sorry, but this isn’t a new phenomenon, the NRA drew fire for running the “jack booted thug” story during King Bush the first and his only term, and then, he resigned his membership, and that single act, cost him his re-election, losing 3 million votes in one pop.

            It started for me, when anyone white, with a gun, was assumed to be part of a “Right Wing” militia, and concluded with the execution of the people at the Branch Davidians compound in Waco.

            Then I learned of Ruby Ridge, and my eyes started to open to how many of our civil rights have been stolen, just to make a cops job easier.

            Constant dismantling of the fourth ammendment, to the point, where you have no privacy, even in your own home, if a cop decides to use the patriot act order to put a camera in your home, with a “No Knock Warrant”.

            No, we have not left LE, you, have left us, the ordinary citizens, the common man, we the people, who now are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

            Don’t want to give an LEO your name, when you damn well know you are innocent? Too bad, we can arrest you and charge you with that.

            WHAT is more important, to assure you own privacy, than not giving your name, if you don’t wish? Are we now in Nazi Germany?

            Produce your papers or you go to jail?

            No, this is not the American I grew up in, and I don’t want another generation to have to live in fear, that a traffic stop will turn into a death sentence.

          • Core

            I agree, you said it very well Ned. I have dear friends in LE and they develop an us versus them mentality, just as Chuck said. It comes down to what makes it easier to enforce law, or safer because as LE you have 1*. Ned your observations and concerns are spot on. I value my LEO’s, but taking away rights and the use of excessive force is not acceptable. This is tough time for LE because of the corruption and excessive force being documented. The sooner we all learn to respect each other in this country the sooner we can gain equal footing.

          • Sicklesteel

            You said it well brother…I salute you.

    • n0truscotsman

      If this is true, that forever rules out Glock on my “recommended” list.

      • Spock

        Me too! I own one and ya know, i’ve put up with their slow process of refining their blocky, plastic pistols. Not anymore.

        I’m looking for a manufacturer who will honor my constitutional rights as an American citizen. I was eligible under this law too but i’ll spend a few more dollars to make sure i’m not attacked by the federal gov and it’s flunkeys in the dept of justice and the rest of the dbags on the left.

        It’s amazing how many companies have sucked up to the far left in DC.

  • iksnilol

    Glock is the bad guy now? But… but I thought only HK were bad guys?

    • marathag

      There can be more than one.

      It isn’t like _Highlander_ after all.

      • iksnilol

        Yeah, but everybody is all like “HK hates you and you suck, Glock on the other hand loves you and is superawesome” due to Glocks being “cheap”.

  • BryanS

    I find it silly that one class of citizens is charged one MSRP. Its one thing to say a department gets a discount because they are buying by the crate.

    • NedBeatty2

      One class, exactamundo. One class of peons, sheep, fools, or the unwashed masses who happen to be the ones who need to pay more, because they haven’t been annointed as one of the chosen few.

      Just listen to Obama at every speech, he ultimately brings up, Teachers, Union members, Police, first responders, etc.

      But its funny he never mentions soldiers or former military. Too bad, I guess their training won’t ever be useful inside the USA, unless its against one of his chosen elite.

      • Geo

        Next time you witness an auto accident, shooting or fire(etc.);
        see who shows up first! In my experience it’s those near by( regular people) ,
        not the “professionals”
        . So really who are the first responders?

        • Bill

          Showing up first? You carry extrication tools and med kits in your POV? More importantly, are you trained to use them? The ability to shoot cell phone video does not make someone a “first responder.”

          And this isn’t a government thing, it’s a program run by a privately held corporation. They can sell however they want – that’s what freedom’s all about, right? Some people need to unbunch their panties.

          • billyoblivion

            “Extraction tools and med kits in your POV”

            Yes. Not a jaws of life or XL-98, nor do I carry a full trauma center around, but enough to get through a window or lever a door open (maybe), and get inside and at least slow down a major bleeder.

            And yes, I’ll crawl inside a torn up car to apply the tourniquet or bandages if I have to.

            As to Glock, they *can* sell to whomever they want, and if they want to give cops a bribe to buy/use their stuff, well, that’s up to the local CLEOs whether that’s acceptable.

            And if they are going to give those folks a discount they are within their rights to have some way of auditing that program.

            HOWEVER, the 4473 is a government form and large parts of it are not optional. Glock has a right to audit their program, and I have a right to expect, and it is certainly reasonable to demand that on forms where I don’t have the option of leaving off data private companies DO NOT get that data for their own purposes.

          • Bill

            That’s one…

            I’m thinking GLOCK will do fine without your business.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Hey, look! I found the copsucker.

          • billyoblivion

            You’re a *cop* with that sort of logic?

          • Eric

            Sounds like Bill’s a glock sucker….I’m selling my G23 out of principle.

          • supergun

            I was thinking about buying a glock. After reading this crap, I will stick to Smith & Wesson, Ruger, and Springfield.

          • Bill

            Nope, haven’t carried one for 20 years. I just find it hysterical when people get bent out of shape over nothing. Maybe someone could cite the CFR that statutorily makes the 4473 a “confidential record.”

          • supergun

            Every human being should help another one in need, even if it is taking that piece of $hit of a so called gun (lock) and knocking out the windows of the car and then throwing away the keys, I mean glock.

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            Yes. And know how to use them. It’s not that arcane of knowledge.

            But, the experts at that are firefighters, not police.

          • Phil Elliott

            No extraction kit, but I do carry a Med kit. And yes I am trained to use them, not EMT trained but close. As for them being a Private co. yes they can sell however they wish, but as a private citizen I can buy however I wish, and I don’t wish Glock to have my info.

          • Alvin York

            It sounds like you’re the one with his panties up his crack and butt hurt because somebody got too close to treading on your “first responder” image/myth. I was an EMT 1 ambulance jockey for 10 years. It’s just a job, no different than anybody else that gets up and puts in his time every day. Farming and garbage pick up is far more dangerous and difficult, far more necessary, and yet, far less appreciated. Take it from one who knows, there is no reason to put a halo above any “first responders” head, be they cop, EMT, paramedic or fireman. If they didn’t want to be there doing the job, they wouldn’t be.

          • Bill

            Um, no, I don’t pretend to be able to dictate to a private business how they should do business. That runs contrary to the core principles of free enterprise and capitalism.

            Um, yes, I don’t know why they decided to give EMTs a price break, because you are right, it isn’t a job that carries much risk of death by homicide, more likely a CVA from being out of condition or MVA from driving the bus like it’s in a NASCAR race. But I’m not one of the people complaining about it.

            So I suppose when applying for a loan no one is willing to show the bank a copy of their pay history or W2? No one is going to show their driver’s license to a car dealer for a test drive or a rental?

          • Core

            Your stupidity swells with each retort. We are talking about an Austrian owned company requesting access to American citizen’s confidential information which IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. The US government is responsible for safe guarding this information on their required forms. These Blue Label dealers should be calling their senators. Feel free to go on about the semantics..

          • Spock

            Alvin, I have to comment on your cavalier approach to life saving.

            As a cop, I was expected to respond to an “aided case” in infamous neighborhoods such as Baltimore BEFORE you EMT people got to the scene. The government creatively called this situation a “PD Screen,” which meant I, as the real FIRST responder, had to be there before you, to make sure the animals didn’t rob or murder YOU upon your arrival. This played out at all hours of the day including the golden crime times between 12am and 8am.

            Perhaps you worked in a warm, fuzzy, crime free city? I’m beginning to doubt it. By the way, how is saving an infant’s life less important than garbage collection? Answer that buddy! I witnessed brave firemen go into burning houses on impulse to save LIVES and they’re some of my best friends today. I seriously doubt you even worked as an EMT with the tripe you spewed.

            Let me remind you, in the hood, no one shoots a garbage man. I think you know that too. Farmers lead a respectable life of hard work but there are no ghettos in the rural areas of the US the last time the democrats set up their constituency in the inner cities for their planned their “war on poverty.”

            I’ll bet you’re a lying liberal who wants to pretend you know so much of what ISN”T SO!

          • Core

            You must be city folk, we rip car doors off out here in the country, because 20-45 minutes can be too long to wait. We carry med packs, chainsaws, axes, and guns so yeah we know how to use em. I agree Glock is free to sell to some other douche bag I’m not buying their junk, and I dont want some former nazis to have access to my social security number either. You make too many assumptions Bill, you have been living in a nanny state too long amirite?

          • Bill

            No, you aren’t right, but somehow I’ll manage to struggle by without your approval.

            You have evidence that Gaston Glock is a former nazi? Or is that an assumption?.

          • Spock

            You’re right. I’m not buying their guns anymore. I was saving up for a new pistol and was steering my girlfriend and my dad to a new Glock but am now looking elsewhere. I’m glad I saw this article and will no doubt, pass it on to my friends on the web.

            Too many cops who work in the cities are brainwashed by the insects in gov. Many of them don’t know what the constitution says let alone what the 2nd amendment provides.

            Is Glock any different from the thugs who burned down Baltimore and who receive welfare from 6 different government agencies? Glock’s apparent sense of entitlement certainly is worthy of our scrutiny. Are their pistols the best weapons in the world especially when a government subsidy is taken into account? I’m betting no.

            Glock gets its welfare from the PD’s (government) just as the insurance companies get welfare for providing free radar guns to apathetic PD’s for presenting them millions of speeders in exchange for billions of dollars in profit.

            Perhaps its time we all made a big change in the guns we carry by scrutinizing their methods of record keeping and their attitude toward our personal freedoms – one patron at a time.

      • I think something that you have neglected to consider is that the discount for police officers is offered because they, generally, have to purchase their own firearm for duty use. As a former police officer it was my experience that I could get a discount on the purchase of my duty weapon, but if I was shopping for a shotgun or rifle, not for duty use, the price was the same as for everyone else.

        As far as being anointed as one of the chosen few, I respect police officers for the fact that they are willing to put their life on the line everyday to protect us from the criminal element. Without law enforcement officers there would be no civilization.

        So if you don’t like cops maybe the next time someone is trying to mug you, beat you, rape you, or any of the many other assaults that can occur, you might want to call a boy scout, or the mail man, etc. instead of the police. Let us know how that works out for you.

        • MichaelZWilliamson

          Let me bow down and worship you.

          Oh, wait. I’m a combat vet and I pay taxes. Go screw.

          • Yeah I am a combat vet also (Vietnam). So why don’t you act like one instead of a foul mouthed child?

        • tomah57

          Well the mailman or a 5th grader for that is just as capable as any CLEO of getting to the scene and taking the information after the fact.The CLEO’s job starts after the action has taken place in most instances and it is what he does with that info that counts afterward.I for the most part do not see them as first responders(its the nature of their job,they can’t be everywhere) I see them more as reactionary.All of these so called first responders are reactionaries,never has an ambulance drove up to the curb and said ‘sir you are going to be shot in a few minutes and we thought we would arrive early’.

          • What you are saying tomah57 is for the most part true. Police officers generally take from 2 to 3 minutes to arrive at the scene of an emergency situation, and that is a good response time statistically; However, when you are in dire straights and in fear of your life you always hope they will arrive sooner because a lot of damage can be done in 3 minutes. That is why we are said to, and should be, responsible for our own safety and well being.

            Criminals do not have the habit of announcing their criminal intentions to the general public or the victims prior to committing the crime. So we cannot assume that law enforcement officers can be there when the crime takes place; if they are it is just by chance. If they are fortunate enough to have the criminal still at the scene when they arrive then they can take over the situation and stop the crime and hopefully take the criminal into custody.

            I have said all that to say this; please don’t bad mouth the police for not being at the scene of the crime when it occurs every time. They are regulated by your local politics. Whenever expenditures need to be cut in the budget the police and fire departments are the first place they make the reductions in funds. This cuts the purchase of needed equipment, layoffs in the patrol division, cutback in patrol hours and coverage of the community.

            If you think that law enforcement is an easy job you should give it a try sometime. I did it for 12 years and I can attest that it is the most difficult, trying, and mentally strenuous job I have ever had, and I was quite successful at it.

          • tomah57

            I have not badmouthed anyone Jimt2099 . Been there done that,CLEO’s get a discount because without quite a few years of time on the job are paid nearly as bad as the military.Sporting guns = its up to the seller.But that is just my experience,I’m just one person and retired some years ago.

        • NedBeatty2

          It will work out fine for me, because I am vigilant, observant and I carry always.

          That said, I have already stopped an attempted robbery by removing the pistol from my pocket, and this was before cell phones, so, no cop would EVER have been there to assist me, and, as I see it, they are usually there to put numbered signs on empty shell casings, and draw a line around a corpse.

          My biggest fear though, is that a cop shows up AFTER I have stopped a crime, and executes me two seconds after he is out of the car, because I have a gun, just like the 12 year old CHILD in Cleveland, who had a freaking TOY.

          Further, no one buys the tools I need to conduct my business. And, no company feels the need to discount a tool sold to a contractor, because we are too poor to buy what we need to use on a job. No one funded the cost of my Kevlar vest that I chose to wear when I working in a bad neighborhood, let alone my multiple firearms that are used during the different seasons of the year.

          IF, you don’t understand what is required for you to have, when you go apply for a job, then you probably shouldn’t apply.

          Further, if the job is the person to “Protect and serve” the public, you probably should find a less demanding profession.

          • The boy in Cleveland held a gun that is an exact replica of a real firearm, he also pointed it at the officers after being told to drop it. What did you want the officer to do, wait until the kid pulls the trigger to see if it is real or not? Are you a flaming idiot?

    • cbunix23

      Law enforcement purchases are exempt from the 11% federal excise tax on firearms.

      • Chuck Haggard

        Blue label sales are not, only department bought guns for issue and owned by the agency are exempt from the 11% tax.

        Note that gun owners and hunters voted and pushed for this excise tax, before you start spouting off about how it’s an unfair tax.

        • cbunix23

          That response was to explain part of the reason sales to law enforcement are less expensive than retail (or even Blue Label). Try to follow the threads.

          “The Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act of 1937 (16 U.S.C. 669-669k; P-R) uses the proceeds from a federal excise tax to fund grants to states and territories for projects to benefit wildlife resources and to conduct programs for hunter education.”

          I am not a hunter and I’m sure I’ve spent more on guns and ammo than 95% of hunters. I can complain about being an unfair tax because it’s paid for one group of people and benefits a different group of people.

          • thmsmgnm

            You are being vague so when you say law enforcement sales, when it is actually sales to law enforcement agencies.

          • cbunix23

            OK, fair enough.

    • desert

      Why is it silly? Police HAVE TO own and carry a gun, dept rules…do YOU have to carry a gun on your shythouse cleaning job?

      • thmsmgnm

        Many police officers DO NOT HAVE TO OWN A GUN, as they get their issued. In the case of the NYPD the officer purchases it through the agency at a significant (and I am not talking about the lack of a Pittman Robertson Tax) absurd price as to what most gun owners are paying.

      • BryanS

        And since they carry it for work, its deductible from their taxes. Lets not also remember that they get a new class of rights as a retired officer, and et to carry where we mere commoners cannot.

  • valorius

    I didnt know Captain Barbossa was a writer for TFB. 🙂

  • Sianmink

    “As a PA resident, anyone who purchases a pistol must fill out two forms at the minimum. The Federal 4473 and a State Record Of Sale form required by the state police. It is not technically a form of registry but a copy is sent to the state police for them to file”

    How is this ‘not technically a form of registry’? Shouldn’t it be required that the records be destroyed after the state police are done with them (PA law actually requires this) but they’re retaining the data and have been for 40 years. The court ruled IIRC that it’s not a registry because it didn’t have complete records of private sales. (which is BS, a partial registry isn’t still a registry?)

    • NedBeatty2

      It is registration, and the case was fought to the state court systems, and it was ruled that keeping the records for an “Alleged” six month period, was OK, even though federal record keeping laws for NICS checks are expunged after 48 hours.

      Further, everytime I read an arrest story in PA, LE runs the guns against a database to see if they are stolen, so………

      Who runs these databases inside PA, and what exactly in them? The names and items collected for informational purposes on the PSP required firearms records?

      Further, dealers in PA, pay the PSP, as well as every gun buyer, when a system is in place for FREE, that WE PAY FOR already, in the Federal NICS system.

      Yet our Head LEO’s insist we pay again, for a system, used to illegally record and retain firearm information.

      I guess thats what happens when the judge hearing the above case is a Demoncrat, bad laws are good, if they fit your agenda.

      • BryanS

        Or, in my case, illegally conduct a search, because I had the gall to ask the state police to do their job and secure my firearm at a court facility. In Washington county, they like to run them through PICS, and low and behold, my legally purchased sidearm, which was purchased from one of the largest and most above board gun shops this side of the state, “was not registered”. Thier words… not mine. I dont think its the deputies there who want to do it, its the higher ups who keep this BS rolling.

        • NedBeatty2

          And, then what happened? I have never even had a deputy touch my gun at a courthouse, they make you put in the box, and they keep the key, at some places. Usually they ask for a carry permit, which Is their right I guess, but even that bothers me.

          • BryanS

            I got my state rep on it, I got the head of FOAC on it, and lodged a complaint with the DA’s office on it. This was the order of the president judge, and as far as i know, not the first and last time that a LTCF holder was illegally searched in this manner.

            Im still waiting to hear back on it.

  • Michael Y

    The Blue label program seems like it leaves a lot of room for abuse. I can see Glock wanting to keep tabs on the honesty of the dealer, but I can also agree with the respect for privacy.

    Why isn’t there a waiver that every blue label gun sale requires that states Glock can review your info. If you refuse to sign, you can’t participate in the program.

    • NedBeatty2

      Why not just let them buy Glocks directly from Glock on department letterhead as many do? Why even put this biased system of gun purchasing out there.

      I could see a purchase for a duty weapon only, but, not for the gun you turn around hand your wife or kid.

  • HammerTime

    According to the GLOCK Blue Label Program all that is required to verify a Blue Label Program participant is the Glock Blue Label form. My understanding is that it might also be a violation of Fed Law if you make a Photo Copy of a Federal Employee’s Fed ID/LEO Creds. Therefore the Glock BL Program Form just requires the ID #. The 4473 is going to need a Driver’s ID etc. BUT the BL Program is offered to a Broad base of potential participants…. we have had a similar struggle with the Distributor who wanted Photo Copies of LEO ID’s with the Glock BL Forms – we refused on the basis of the Federal issues and its also a Local Sheriff’s Dept Policy that his Deputies not allow their Credentials be photo copied by any non-government entity. Very Strange they are asking for the 4473s and we would refuse on those grounds as well…. some other agenda would seem to be under foot with that request. We have also had some Elitist NY Attorney claiming to represent Glock about how products are described on our Website. I guess they have Trademarked, Copy Righted the word Glock or whatever but wanted us to change wording on aftermarket accessories that fit Glocks because it wasn’t worded just right. The worst case of Corporate Ambulance Chasing I have ever seen / heard of. She just couldn’t understand by reaction to not cooperate… “But we work with companies all the time like Brwonells, Cheaper Than Dirt, Cabella’s” I told her to get bent – we where using Mfr provided product descriptions, we are a small company in the middle of no where and my time was very valuable and messing with a website description for her was very low on the priority list… She snarked she knew time was Valuable – I said of Course because she was billing Glock for her Ambulance Chasing internet search harrassments while I was simply having my time wasted. She informed me she would be letting Glock know my response… so far 6 months later – nothing but it chaps your ass when the very company your supporting thru a good volume of sales has elitist henchmen lawyers out shaking the bushes – I understand brand integrity… BUT put me in charge and I could save Glock Millions in Legal fees and still probably do a better job supporting their brand by & volume of sales by working with industry partners not throwing them under the bus and feeding them to the legal sharks who are only after billable hours and don’t care squat about the industry or bigger picture. End of Rant. I support this FFL holders choices. Good on them.

  • Patriot Gunner

    This is exactly the sort of stuff that makes me never want to buy a glock product. They make good guns (for what they are), but IMHO voting with your wallet is one of the most powerful tools a person has. Will my actions make a dent in their bottom line? Probably not, but the 25-35 new shooters I take to the range every year will probably never buy a glock. Any company with a great product AND proven track record of supporting the 2A is a company I will throw money at.

  • Tom Currie

    I would strongly suspect that Glock is taking a hard look at dealers who have an exceptionally high number or percentage of “Blue Label” sales — as they probably should.

    Personally I’m not a fan of Glocks, but if a company is going to offer a substantial discount for Certain Special People, then they certainly ought to keep an eye on abuse of that program — especially when the abuse is likely to simultaneously involve commission of a felony. I wouldn’t take a genius for someone at Glock to wonder if the Glock Blue Label forms and the 4473 forms actually match up.

  • Peter J. Kolovos

    Guys! The LE discount is substantial. If this dealer is abusing the program and selling them to the civilian market at that price then he is in direct violation of Glock’s LE program. This could constitute fraud. Talk all the BS you want but this dealer may have abused the program to the point where Glock wanted to review his sales.

  • Peter J. Kolovos

    And by the way, the Glock is still the finest battle on the planet, bar none!

  • J S

    “WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.” – Walt Kelly, writer of Pogo.
    Nicholas, thanks for a clear, concise article with sources. As of late, I really suspect the firearm manufactures are in cahoots, or being leaned on, by the government to produce this data.
    I have also suspected when firearms are sent in for repair from the manufacturer, this data is also being compiled.
    Be aware and protect your rights, no matter 1st, 2nd, all of them. None of us want to live in a lawless society, but we will NOT live under a oppressive rule.

  • Will

    Here’s an idea. Don’t buy the guns.
    Relax, you are jacking up your blood pressure over something over which you have no control.

    • Core

      They are requesting confidential government 4473 forms. So yes its worth getting your blood pressure up, its a matter of privacy to protect gun owners from targeting now and in the future.

  • Chuck Haggard

    One very real issue are the number of FFL douchebags agreeing to the Glock blue label program, then selling the guns to people not eligible for the program, and pocketing the profits. OMB Guns in the Kansas City area supposedly skimmed hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars doing this. I know for a fact that they were selling blue label guns to the local Cabela’s and claiming those as LE sales as I was in the store when one of these mass gun buys by Cabela’s happened.

    This stuff has nothing to do with 1st or 2nd amendment rights, no matter how this FFL wants to spin it, it’s a civil matter between the parties in which the FFL agreed to abide by the program, and it appears Glock is trying to audit to make sure they are complying. I see nothing nefarious about it, and it’s quite frankly bullshit for the FFL to try and spin it that way.

  • phillip

    i used to work for a blue label gun dealer and when you sign up for the program either as a (distributor/dealer <<<Glock sets the price for pistols) or just (BLP Dealer <<<dealer has pricing discretion), you sign a form stating you'll only sell to qualified individuals and must keep a copy of their credentials with all related forms…that form also states if youre a distributor/dealer Glock has the right to review all relate forms to the sale to make sure youre actually selling to qualified people and if youre a dealer only, the distributor & glock have the right to review all related forms to the sale….

    the only time i ever saw glock review records is when they got complaints on that dealer/distributor or dealer…they've pulled numerous dealers and dealer/distributors from the BLP for abuse, this case isnt the 1st or unique.

  • petru sova

    I have spoken to local gun stores and many hate Glock with a passion because of their arrogance. They have told me that in every conversation they had with Glock on problems that Glocks attitude was “we are always right and you are always wrong”. Glocks so called “product updates” fool not even a Moron as they were thinly disguised recalls pure and simple.

  • Reginald Pettifogger

    Add another entry to the list of reasons why I dislike Glock.

  • Wolfe7D1

    To all the posters hating on Glock giving the “blue label” discounts… You are aware that they are not the only manufacturer that does this, yes? Beretta has its “America’s Defender” program and FN has its “Individual Officer Discount Program”. These programs are for LEO, military, and retired LEO/military. If you are going to hate, ensure you spread the wealth.

    I am retired military, and I have purchased firearms under these programs. As retired military, my family and I can also pass through an airport security screening just by showing my retired ID without going through the search BS. I’m sure someone will hate on that, too, not to mention all of the other benefits I receive for my service.

    • Core

      Youre full of it. You cant pass through TSA without getting screened. Who cares about the other companies, as long as they are not requesting confidential government 4473’s.

      • Donald Darr

        You’re full of it! It’s called the TSA Precheck and YES it does allowed Military, family, and former military to bypass the normal security lines. No taking off your shoes and belts, no emptying your carry on’s, etc. Look it up on the web before opening your mouth.

        • Core

          TSA Pre – is an option for any permanant resident without a criminal history. You still get a body scan and carryon scan. You made it sould like you just bypass security by popping your retired card…

  • Bobbyg

    Ha..guess what. Glock thinks that they are Google. That now realize that there are millions/billions to be made from selling private info. Screw them. The only Glock that I buy will be private ftf transactions.

  • BuzzKillington

    Maybe I’m in the minority, but I don’t have a problem with Glock auditing transaction paperwork for firearms involved in the Blue Glock program. I have less of a problem with them doing it than I do with a government organization, anyway. So long as Glock isn’t duplicating forms or maintaining records, and their sole purpose is to ensure dealers aren’t abusing the program, I’m not concerned with it. I greatly appreciate Glock’s generosity with the Blue Glock program, and I’d hate to see it go away due to mass abuse.

    • Core

      Well if one person is not cool with sharing confidential information, than its not okay. Your opinion is yours, and it doesnt reflect the entire population. Most folks wouldnt care if Glock just used the information to audit and destroyed all records, but do you think that is possible? The NSA cant secure their TS information, do you think Glock can be trusted? Once the 4473’s are handed over its out there in the open, compromised. Anyone in the Blue Label program can be targeted today or tomorrow, or in fifty years. A foreign government could intercept one of Glocks emails or FTP servers upload all 4473’s and use the confidential information to target police officers. The media could be using the information to target police officers and investigate misuse. It could go a million ways south, and thats why we dont hand over confidential information to foreign companies and governments. We are also facing a gun control agenda which interestingly is based in New York for the most part. Handing over gun ownership information at all levels of government should be highly illegal. The state of Maine Governor was requested to hand over all concealed permit holder names, and Governor LePage refuses to submit to their requests. Once this information is compromised, concealed permit holders could be targeted by any number of interest groups, organizations, and individuals. No one needs this information except for the government administering the program, and they should be liable to safeguard the information indefinitely.

      • BuzzKillington

        JFC. Way to run wild on my opinion on the notion, while reacting like I insinuated it should happen.

        I wasn’t going to reply further than that, but I just have to address your comparison between Glock and a government agency. Are you high tonight? Healthcare ran great before Obama and the ACA got involved. The government can’t even get a freaking website to run smoothly, and you want to compare them to private companies? They have pursued companies like Apple for years to open back doors in their encryption software to give authorities easy access to our data. When it comes to securing private information, comparing any government organization to that of a private company, is nothing short of a fallacy. The biggest difference is that private companies hold more liability than government. They have a vested interest in protecting personal information, their business depends on it.

        I don’t know if I should even read passed that fallacy in only the third line of a long rant directed at a misconception, but I might muster the energy later. I can only assume it’s loaded with derp. Seriously, nowhere in my post does it reference my feelings on whether Glock SHOULD be doing this….and you wrote all of that to address my post as if it did. Spend less time on the rants and work on your literacy.

        • Donald Darr

          They’re all out to get me! Glock, Colt, Beretta, everyone wants my information! I think I’ll just hide in my closet with my loaded AR15! Damn it, now everyone knows I own an AR15! lol

          • BuzzKillington

            Costco is running a huge sale on tinfoil. Order a pallet ahead of time so they have it ready when you walk in.

          • Donald Darr

            Thanks for the info. Maybe i can line my closet with tinfoil so the heat seeking drones won’t find me. Any ideas on how to keep the “gun sniffing” dogs from finding me? lol

          • BuzzKillington

            Yes. Make child. Put Glock in said child’s bookbag, along with all of the secured private information on 4473, open front door and send child out as decoy, then run out the back. Profit.

        • Core

          You are correct, the government does possess this information because they administer the program and enforce the laws associated with the programs. On that note your argument is apples and oranges as usual. What the ACA has to do with anything we are discussing is beyond me? You keep going off on tangents, very in line with the anti gun agenda spouting off ignorant nonsence. The registry of CWP holders is confidential information that should not be released to the public. Law abiding citizens are not obligated to give up their privacy rights as is a felon who waives his or her right to privacy in society depending on the nature of the crime convicted. Lets not try to confuse the difference between someone who has signed away their rights to privacy and folks who have not. FOIA does not permit government to release personal and confidential information to the public. It requires that the government make a reasonable effort to supply numbers. Whether or not the state realizes the liability they embrace when they release this confidential information (usually names) is a reflection of the state goverments desire to protect its citizens. You are making assumptions again about Maine: go ahead and send a FOIA request for CWP holders to the Capital in Augusta, Maine and post your results.. Your argument that the government cant be trusted is paranoid, not that I disagree entirely. Keeping this confidential information compartmentalized is critical. How a corporation handles customer information is of the utmost importance and should be a major factor in the decision to do business. Glock is clearly out of line requesting these forms, merely to accept the responsibility of safe guarding this confidential information is extremely risky from a liability perspective. You seem determined to be right but you are already fundamentally wrong, just let it digest you’ll be okay.

          • BuzzKillington

            I’m literally arguing with a troll. Now you are repeating things that I have already said, like it’s fresh. I can’t even begin to address line after line of your post. I’m not suggesting or guessing, I’m telling you that it is FACT that permit information is public record, obtainable by FOIA. Some states have enacted laws to exempt SOME information, but Maine is not one of them. Any person in the state of Maine can submit a FOIA and get permit holder information. This isn’t a guess. You continue to live in a fantasy and argue falsehoods, I’m done replying.

          • Core

            Submit a FOIA and produce a list of Maine Concealed Permit holders.. Ill be waiting to see your results.

    • Donald Darr

      I, for one, agree with you. If we continue to make the firearm manufactures the enemy, how long do you think programs like this will last? If they are getting screwed financially, Glock, Beretta, Colt, etc will just shut them down and everyone can pay full price. I have nothing against Glock investigating this store if they feel they’re being scammed. If I was the owner, and had nothing to hide, I’d invite Glock to look over my records. Look at it this way, if you owned a business and someone was taking a cut out of your income, wouldn’t you have the right to check the books?

  • William M Butler, MSG USA ret

    Shame on the “peckerwood” Glock attorney. ( my opinion, 1st amendment) I hope that this blows up in their faces, big time. For my part, I will openly state my opinion, LOUDLY AND REPEATEDLY, that they are not entitled to the information. They should be excoriated for even trying to obtain same. For my part, I will not purchase any Glock products until there is a “public” apology, withdrawl of demand and reinstatement for this vendor. I recommend other firearms enthusiasts to boycot Glock, as well. ( my opinion, 1st amendment protected speech!)

    • Jack Mahoghof

      Good. More Glocks for the rest of us!

  • Core

    Trop: good for you. Now your job is to hand over all 4473 forms to the proper government authorities and ensure they dont get into the wrong hands. Or destroy the forms. Its down to you and the government, once the forms are passed to the government they will be responsible for safe guarding the confidentiality of Glock Blue Label owners. Glock should be fined for attempting to gain access to confidential government forms. All future forms for manufacturers should not include any specific information about customers and the guns they own, warrantys should be continuous based upon proof of dealer purchase. Simple, and safe. The passing of information that can be compromised is the critical issue here. The government and dealers are the only ones responsible to safe guard this required information in the 4473 forms. If it leaks, there needs to be consequences which involve rethinking how we collect gun owner information, and reparations and liability for damages incurred due to compromised social security numbers and names and addresses. I dont think anyone wants to bear that respinsibility, so why request the data to begin with? Lets just go with a crappy scan of a state id, military id, police id etc. and call it good.

    • BuzzKillington

      You’re insane. You WANT 4473’s handed over to the ATF? And in the name of privacy? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!

      • Core

        As you said in a previous post the BATFE already knows which guns you have purchased over the counter. You are completley disillusioned. You seem to cling to the belief that your information is better off in the hands of those who have no accountability ie. Private Entities. The truth is as you stated earlier, the government already safe guards our information and they are accountable for doing so. Personally I’m against any form of firearm data being logged by anyone. The government knows exactly how many guns I have minus the ones I obtained through inheritance and private sale., as you mentioned to some extent. This is no laughing matter Buzzkill.

        • BuzzKillington

          Private businesses have no accountability? Wow. And you suggest the government does? You understand you are taking the exact opposite of the truth and arguing it as so, right?

          • Core

            Yes. Costco called your pallet of aluminum foil has arrived.

  • Donald Darr

    If this is a special program for selling Glocks to Law Enforcement and Military at a marked discount and Glock feels that it has been abused, why shouldn’t they be allowed to review the records? Everyone gets so up in arms when someone wants to look at firearm records but no one cares if the firearm company gets screwed by some shady dealings. So, in the long run, Glock will just shutdown this program and everyone will have to buy the guns at full price! Once again, we bite our own selves in the butt.

  • Robert

    I’ not surprised by Glock’s actions. I purchased a G26 about a year ago from a local gun store in Westland, MI. I was charged, and I paid, the full retail price and received a G26 in a box with a blue label. If the retailer got a discount on my pistol, then they made a windfall profit at Glock’s expense. I wonder how many dealers are doing the same thing?

  • Matheus Grunt

    Backdoor registration is exactly what it is when the government requires us to fill out BCC’s each time we buy a weapon at businesses. That’s ALL it is.

  • Renaissance Firearms

    I agree with the gun shop. I own a retail gun shop. The 4473 is a document that technically belongs to the BATF & if I am asked to surrender one to anyone other than the BATF I have to be served a subpoena. It is not my document to be sharing with anyone…

    • Core

      I’m glad to hear you say this, I wouldn’t purchase firearms from anyone who supports Glock in this matter. As a scientist, my ethical obligations to protect client confidentiality is at the forefront of everything I do professionally. So much so that scrubbing identifiable information from data is a standard. As an undergraduate we handled hunting data for a small project, and all of my personal information came up in the list. I realized at that point how important it is to protect people from FOIA. I have a background in strategic security and operational security, and I truly understand the consequences on many levels. People chime in, and are quick to sacrifice a little liberty for security…