Fondling the Kel-Tec RMR-30

RMR-30

Last year I got to fondle a display RMR-30 at SHOT. At this year’s SHOT my contact at Kel-Tec told me that the RMR-30 will go into production. Fingers crossed. I love my PMR-30 and a small compact carbine version would be sweet.

Here is a video I took while fondling the RMR-30 at SHOT 2013


Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick has been only been shooting for the past 3 years but found his passion through competitive shooting. USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.


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  • CrazyKg

    And let the daydreaming begin…

    • Eric S

      I think their entire business model is an extension of ‘you can’t have it.’ Which apparently works very well.

      I still want one..

    • tim

      the daydream started about 1.5 years ago when the first pictures hit the web….

      i still pester kel-tec on facebook once every few months about it

  • nester7929

    Poor man’s MP7? Hell yes. I’m going to SBR that so quickly.

    • Dracon1201

      Try “Only MP7 you’ll ever get in America as a civilian.”

      • nester7929

        That too.

  • Mazryonh

    You should have mentioned this firearm’s caliber and the magazine capacity. Not all of us readers here already know, after all.

    • M.M.D.C.

      .22 Magnum, like the pistol version.

      • Giolli Joker

        And 30 rounds in the magazine, like the pistol version.

    • Nicholas C

      It is a .22 WMR. Based off the PMR-30 pistol design, it ha 30rd magazines.

      • Mazryonh

        Thank you for the info.

        I’m still surprised that more manufacturers aren’t making more PCCs that load from the pistol grip, like this model. You gain a better barrel-length-to-overall-length ratio without going into the problems associated with bullpups.

        • Cymond

          I think it has something to do with the trigger & hammer mechanism. I’ve read that the Beretta CX4 has an unusual internal arrangement to allow for the magazine in the pistol grip.

          I still like the idea. It’s compact and it feels natural to bring your hands together during reloads.

          • Mazryonh

            Yep, “hand finds hand” is easy for most people due to proprioperception. But as for “unusual internal arrangement” I’m not so sure, because the venerable Uzi SMG could load from the pistol grip, even when it was converted to closed-bolt operation.

  • ColaBox

    Ladies and gentleman, the Mp7 we can actually own.

    • percynjpn

      No, we can’t; like all recent Kel-Tec firearms, they introduce them and get people excited, then only produce them by the dozen. A very odd business philosophy.

  • clinton notestine

    looks pretty slick

  • fjkhoury01

    why keltec why?…22wm is a toy. 5.7X28 plz

    • iksnilol

      .22 WM is cheap and common (especially when compared to 5.7×28).

      Besides, isn’t the Five-Seven made for the purpose?

      • Vhyrus

        Did you just call 22 cheap and common?!

        Where exactly do you live?

        • iksnilol

          Compared to 5.7 it is.

        • Steve Truffer

          22 MAGNUM, much more plentiful than .22 oddly. And the Canucks, and anyone else outside the US can get it. still boggles my mind that they can pick up a 1000 round brick for $40 Canadian.

          • DiverEngrSL17K

            And it’s a very good cartridge to boot for its intended purpose. I really envy the Canadians, et al ( in a good way, of course ) for their ability to still access this wonderful round at such a cost-effective price point. More power to them, and shame on the inflated U.S. market that deprives the average fellow of the same.

          • Joe Del Zotto

            Well the Canadian version can keep the .22 version of the gun. While I don’t doubt that the .22 wmr is a good little round at the end of the day I would want something that’s adopted, tested and put in use by a military.

          • Steve Truffer

            …What? There isn’t a ‘Canadian version’, its a commonplace cartridge used where .22 LR is insufficient in terms of power or range. If you look at the numbers, hotter .22 magnum loads duplicate or exceed 5.7 or 4.9 loadings. My reference was to the fact that the .22 shortage was exclusive to the US. Please do at least a little research before you sound like a 60 year old fudd.

          • allannon

            I think he means “Canada can keep the .22 version of the RMR-30″.

            Which really is kind of a pointless sentiment, since they’re both .22 caliber bullets. :D

          • Joe Del Zotto

            I’m saying if the Canadians want the wmr round they can get it that way a little variety won’t hurt any one so chill out. If kel tec wants this gun to really take off I can tell you it won’t be with the wmr round.

          • allannon

            I can’t speak to military use, though I believe the Israelis use(d) a .22WMR fully-suppressed rifle for taking down dogs and sentries.

            But .22WMR is a very old and well-tested round for small game. One of my first turkeys was taken with one; I was riding with my dad and his buddy to fix a fence, and we ran up on some turkeys. Shot one at like 90yd with a single-shot bolt-action .22WMR with a 2x scope on it.

            5.7×28, on the other hand, is a very new round; barely 2 decades old.

            .22wmr is less powerful than 5.7×28, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing when shooting something like a rabbit or turkey; a faster load might well just poke a hole without properly mushrooming for a good kill shot. 5.7 was designed, after all, to defeat light body armor. ;)

          • Steve Truffer

            I gotta contest the “less powerful” bit- CCI has a 30 grain, 2200 fps loading, and FN’s loading is 27 grains @ 2300 fps: the .22 mag gets 322 FPE, the 5.7 gets 317 FPE.

          • allannon

            The hottest load I can find on CCIs site turns in about 320J. The stock loading for 5.7×38@30gr turns in about 530J.

          • Rob in Katy

            Yup, have a buddy in AU that keeps offering to send me a few cases, somehow I set ATF / Customs getting it all.

          • Nicholas C

            Where in Canada is this magical place? Can I even buy ammo in Canada and bring it back to the US?

    • DiverEngrSL17K

      While the 5.7 x 28 cartridge is outstanding in its own right, I definitely do not agree that the .22WMR is a “toy”. Far from it, the .22WMR is a ballistically sound, effective and proven round that gets the job done at a relatively low cost. And I say this as an ex-military operative and present-day gun owner who has rifles and carbines in both calibers.

      I also have, in my personal inventory, several military-grade rifles that are chambered in far more powerful and capable calibers, such as 7.62mm x 54R, 7.62mm x 51 NATO, 7.62mm x 39 M43 and 5.45mm x 45, as well as specialized calibers such as .300 Weatherby Magnum and so on. For all this, I would never at any point consider the .22WMR a “toy”, nor would I consider the equally capable but less powerful .22LR a “toy”, contrary to the opinions of some. Every type of cartridge, and its unique characteristics, fulfills a certain specific niche. How well it does so should be judged in the context of its intended role, and not in comparison to something that is altogether different in its design purpose.

      • Raven

        .22WMR works, yeah, but a rimfire has more inherent difficulties than a centerfire case (not reloadable, mags have to be designed for the rim, etc.), so why not make it in a .22 centerfire? .22TCM looks like it could work, or even scale it up a bit and run .221 Fireball.

        • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/ Phil W “Senior Writer TFB”

          Both of those rounds are still a niche item and expensive. From a business standpoint it wouldn’t make any sense.

        • DiverEngrSL17K

          True. The .22TCM and .221 Fireball would be interesting.

      • tim

        operative… i operate so hard….

        • DiverEngrSL17K

          :):)!

      • Nicholas C

        At the moment 22wmr is costing the same as 9mm. 50rds of Hornady Critical Defense 45gr FTX is $15 for a box of 50. That is what I was able to find to feed my PMR30.

    • percynjpn

      .22 WMR is a fast and deadly round – what other reason do you need?

  • Joe Del Zotto

    This would be great if they could ditch the .22 magnum round and go with the 5.7×28 round instead. Very cool.

    • DiverEngrSL17K

      While the FN 5.7 x 28 cartridge is a very good round with excellent credentials for its caliber, the .22WMR is a lot less expensive, relatively affordable ( taking into account the ridiculous current artificial shortage of .22LR and .22WMR, at least in the U.S. ), and still provides outstanding ballistic performance for its size. The .22WMR is consistently one of the most under-rated and overlooked cartridges of its type in the current lexicon.

      • Joe Del Zotto

        That’s because it’s an oddball round that nobody has adopted.

        • tim

          who would adopt the .22 mag? and for what? maybe state or fed wildlife management for dispatching rabid coyotes or something but thats it

    • tts

      I’d like .22TCM better myself. Its performs much like the 5.7x28mm cartridge but for lots less.

      .22WMR isn’t a bad compromise though. Certainly easier to find in general than 5.7x28mm or .22TCM.

  • kipy

    This thing would be great in so many calibers. 10mm comes to mind specifically.

    • iksnilol

      I wish they made a Desert Eagle with this kind of magazine. 18 rounds of .357 or 16 rounds of .44 would be (one of many) a dream come true.

  • jamezb

    I’d like to see it produced in .17 Winchester Super Magnum.
    3000 FPS of ZING!

    • iksnilol

      Would rather see it in .22 LR, imagine 20 rounds of .22 in one mag?

      I think it would be a good idea if they made a 50 round magazine.

      • Cymond

        It’s difficult to produce rimfire magazines with higher capacities. The rim causes stacking problems, and the short length increases the curvature. I think length is the reason why they can make a double stack magazine work with WMR but not LR.

        • iksnilol

          They can stack them nose up while keeping it doublestack.

        • Nicholas C

          I dont see how WMR is easier to stack than LR. The only difference between the two is the length of the casing.

          • patrickiv

            The WMR cartridge is longer, so the curvature of a stack of 15 WMR cartridges would be less than that of a stack of 15 LR cartridges.

    • Dan

      17hmr is already too high pressure to work reliably in semiauto. 17 wsm in any semiauto is not likely at all. 22 wmr is about the limit.

      • jamezb

        I’m not sure why you say that, Dan. I was always of the opinion that almost any problem could be engineered away…additionally, I’m not sure I understand what you are getting at.
        As we speak, over at the range, there are 5.56, 7.62×39, 7.62×51
        and a big, boomin’ .50 BMG, all of which are semi-auto – and all of which are higher powered than the dinky .17’s.
        Did you mean to say .22wsm is too hot for a blowback action?
        That perhaps is plausible, however MPA is producing a blowback M-11 type gun in 5.7×28, a fairly hot little bottleneck itself, …although it is centerfire.
        Is the problem the fact that the cartridges are rimfire with less case head strength than a centerfire?
        Or are you concerned that the pressure may not decrease enough before the bolt opens?
        Could not a delay mechanism such as roller delay, heavier bolt, etc. be incorporated into the design to overcome that?
        Were this gun, with it’s similarity in size to the MP7, available in a cartridge with higher performance than .22WMR, there would be a great deal of consumer interest.
        Perhaps design cues from the MP7 could be used to make a hotter round feasible?

        • valorius

          .22 wmr from this carbine should be fairly analogous to 5.7x28mm from the 5.7mm pistol.

  • Vhyrus

    That would be the ultimate survival gun.

    Assuming, of course, you can get ammo for it.

  • SAR

    Great! Another firearm that will take decades to get into the open market. I can hardly wait!

    ;)

  • Casey

    The PMR-30 was unveiled at SHOT Show 2010. You still cant buy one unless you look at online auction sites posting a few of them for 2x retail price. And then there is the KSG. Kel-Tec has done an amazing job creating an absurd demand for a mediocre product by advertising the hell out something you cant get. Consumers should boycott this kind of business model.

    • javierjuanmanuel

      boycott, or you mean just not buy?

      I am most offended by the cheap materials, and workmanship, to otherwise pretty good designs.

      I wish keltec would run two lines, and i would pay double for nicer polymer, more forging, more milled parts, better put together.

      I really do not want a keltec at suggested retail price, much less double. I like the designs though.

    • percynjpn

      Right – I guess if they took 90% of their advertising budget and used it to increase production, people would actually be able to buy their products. There is no other U.S. arms manufacturer (that I know of) that is in this ridiculous situation.

    • Nicholas C

      I dont know what you are complaining about. I got my KSG behind NY enemy lines back in March 2012. I realized I didnt want to wait so I bought it on gunbroker. I paid more but I got to enjoy owning it and shooting it. Even now, I have not seen on in a store. But I have to say I stopped looking after I got mine.

      A week after SHOT 2014, I got lucky and a guy was selling his second PMR30 for $450. Snatched it up like a fat kid on a cupcake.

      I got my Sub-2000 in 40 s&w glock back in NY as well, before I got the KSG. For only $230!

      They are out there, you just gotta look.

      • toxie

        Hey, glad you’re happy to pay 30%+ msrp. I’ve seen exactly ONE ksg in-store, and NO PMR’s. They’re like the polymer version of LaRue.

      • Dr. Daniel Jackson

        You may be happy paying over msrp but,I never pay msrp on anything,especially firearms.

  • brian hemlock

    Does it use PMR30 magazines?

    • Cymond

      Yes PMR mags, unless they altered the design recently, but that would be truly stupid.

      • Paladin

        That’s actually kinda a bad thing for some of us. Up here in Canada our mag limits are FUBAR. Rimfire rifles are one of the few exceptions, but the exception does not apply to pistol magazines. Simply put, if it uses PMR-30 mags it’ll have a 10 round limit, if it uses different mags it won’t. Our laws are stupid like that.

        • Cymond

          Wow, didn’t know that before. So if I understand correctly, Centerfire rifle magazines are limited to 5 rounds, rimfire rifle magazines are unlimited, and all pistol magazines are limited to 10 rounds. However, a rifle is allowed to use a pistol magazine. I’ve read that one company makes AR-15 type pistol magazines which are popular because they’re the only way to legally have 10 rounds in an AR.

          And I apologize. I simply meant that it would make more sense to use an existing design than create a new one. I’m personally a fan of using pistol magazines for pistol calibers.

          • Paladin

            Yeah, that’s a pretty good summary of the situation up here.

            I don’t particularly blame Kel-Tec for using the same mags, we’re not exactly a huge market. If anyone is to blame it’s the people who forced this asinine legislation on us.

  • allannon

    I want one of these, SBRed, for a pack carbine. Enough oomph for removing the odd snake, or taking a rabbit for dinner.

    Except it’s probably going to have the usual spotty Kel-tech production quality.

    A .22lr version, or better yet conversion, would be fun for plinking.

    • DiverEngrSL17K

      Allanon, you might have a point there about Kel-Tech’s QA/QC. I have heard some complaints from fellow gun owners to the same effect, but they seem to be intermittent and sometimes contradictory. Can you elaborate a bit more about your own experiences ( I currently don’t own a Kel-Tec although I am quite familiar with them ) so that the rest of us can learn?

      Thanks in advance :)!

      • allannon

        QA/QC is pretty much the issue, for me.

        My Ruger mkIII is picky about ammo, but with a 5.5″ bull barrel it’s hardly a good pack gun. It was also purchased for range use, where I can make sure I have ammo it’s happy with. (In my case, no HP; it’ll fail to feed as here: http://www.prestonsdocsonline.com/).

        But a pack gun is a “just in case” item. Food spoilage, get injured so I need to be able to shoot something to eat, possibly defense (though my XDs is more likely for that). K-T’s famous QC issues just make me leery of using their products in that niche.

        Which is unfortunate, because like I said the RMR-30 seems nearly ideal: a reasonably powerful, flat-shooting round from a compact platform. .22WM is more than enough for snakes, rabbits, squirrels, turkey, etc. The platform–even SBRed–would be good out to at least a few dozen yards. With or without being SBRed it’ll fit inside my 50L pack’s main compartment, or strapped into the side pocket; it could easily be strapped to my daypack. It’d be easy to fit in a dry sack to keep it out of eyeshot.

        But none of that matters if I have a 10% chance of getting a gun that doesn’t go bang every time the trigger is pulled on a live round.

        • RocketScientist

          So, for clarity’s sake, do you actually own a Kel-Tec, or have any personal experience with one?

  • herb

    Not that I blame Kel-Tec for their low output, I can see there being wisdom to it, but it’ll be nice in 8 or so years when they’re available for only 150% of MSRP.

  • pogie bait

    When can I get my Sub-2000?

  • ExurbanKevin

    Yes.

  • Jonathan Kim

    good looking rifle. i want one. damn the CA politicians and sissy progressives. damn. they eagerly give their wives and girlfriends to be x-rayed by freaking TSA.. damn..

  • KM

    Can’t wait for Ruger to come out with one that works

    • maodeedee

      “Can’t wait for Ruger to come out with one that works”
      –and one that you can actually go into a store and buy one off the shelf.

  • erwos

    I am really interested in this thing because it’s rimfire. Here in MD, we don’t have to worry about the feature tests with rimfire guns… good SBR candidate since I don’t have to deal with OAL restrictions.

    • Cymond

      California doesn’t restrict rimfire rifle features, either (pistols are feature-restricted). However, we’re still stuck with only 10 rounds and no SBRs.

  • El Duderino

    I’ve had a PMR-30 on order for almost 18 months. Won’t hold my breath for the carbine.

    I’m not even mad right now, with the state of .22WMR availability being what it is.

  • maodeedee

    Kel-tec makes some great guns, too bad no one can buy them. Maybe Mechtech will make an “Upper” for the PMR 30 when the day finally comes when you can buy one of those.

    But one of these, probably not in my lifetime, maybe yours, if you’re under 25.

  • valorius

    More kel tec vaporware.