Yet another NBC hit piece on Remington


CNBC alleges that Remington 870 shotguns are unsafe. Yes, they claim one of the most popular firearms in the USA, owned by 20 million Americans, which collectively probably fire in excess of 50 millions rounds per year and which has been in production for over 60 years, is fundamentally unsafe and nobody except an injured dove hunter and a serial paid plaintiff expert were able to figure this out. The paid expert goes on to claim that Remington has known about this since the gun went into production (1951) and has never bothered to do anything about it, despite using the same trigger group and trigger group components in a number or other products since then.

The best defense against this nonsense is the puff piece itself, embedded below. It is entirely unconvincing.

It is beyond my understanding that someone would not bother to open a pump action shotgun’s action after they are finished shooting. It takes only a second and renders the gun 100% safe. Leaving a round chambered and propping it up against a truck does not make it safe.

Remington has hit back with a two videos and a statement (reproduced below).

The statement itself…

NBC continues to attack Remington and the firearms industry through sensational and factually inaccurate reporting. On April 11, 2012, Brian Williams again demonstrated NBC’s anti-gun agenda with the claim that the Model 870, Model 1100 and other Remington firearms have a design flaw. That claim is demonstrably false and Remington stands fully behind the safety and reliability of the most popular shotguns in the world.

It wasn’t enough for NBC to attack over 20 million Remington firearms; they also called the Second Amendment into question by suggesting that there is a need for increased government regulation of firearms.

Model 870 and 1100 owners know the truth – these shotguns are used extensively under the most demanding conditions. Tens of billions of rounds have been fired through these firearms, which are valued for their performance and durability by millions of hunters, shooters, law enforcement and military personnel who have relied on Remington.

As the basis for its attacks, NBC continues to rely upon paid “experts” who have been repeatedly hired by plaintiff’s attorneys to testify against Remington and at least 16 other firearms manufacturers. The facts show that the Model 870 and 1100 are two of the most reliable shotguns ever produced – only one lawsuit has been filed in the last seven years and no litigation is pending against the trigger mechanisms of these firearms.

Deceptively editing and ignoring readily available documents and video evidence to drive NBC’s agenda is an all too familiar tactic. Remington stands by the reliability and safety of its firearms and will fully respond to NBC’s attempt to disparage these iconic American products.

I would not defend Remington if I thought there was a fundamental flaw with the Remington 870 or 1100 shotguns. I have fired many rounds through these guns and I am comfortable with disassembling and modifying these trigger groups.

Eventually I would expect any company to manufacture a single faulty unit (or a unit that wears out faster than expected), but NBC is claiming that they have discovered fundamental fault in a 60 year old product’s design, not a one off manufacturing error.




Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Esh325

    NBC is wrong obviously, but Infallible? I had one dud example of a 870 shotgun. I found out it wasn’t so infallible. They can and do break, that’s bs Remington. Every gun can. Some more then others.

    • Nadnerbus

      No one is claiming guns don’t break down, like any other mechanical device. The claim of NBC is there is an inherent design flaw to the firearm itself that makes it unsafe regardless of its good working order. Or at least I think that is the claim, I don’t take much of anything seriously that comes out of NBC.

  • WI Rngr

    Why did he lean a loaded firearm against the side of his car? First thing he should have done is unload the gun. Don’t blame the anyone else for your stupid mistakes.

  • http://harqueb.us harqueb.us

    When you do something really stupid, it’s a lot easier to blame someone else than yourself.

    Editor’s note: “nobody expect an injured dove hunter” should be “except.”

  • carter

    Remington should start re-running some of those gas tank explosion tests the Media performed lo those many years ago. That reporting was proven to be doctored and fraudulent, so’s this. If I had to reach for a gun it would be a Remington. Tell them to “suck on this barrel” for their next story , gimme a break.

  • carter

    Remington should start re-running some of those gas tank explosion tests the Media performed lo those many years ago. That reporting was proven to be doctored and fraudulent, so’s this. If I had to reach for a gun it would be a Remington. Tell them to “suck on this” for their next story, gimme a break.

  • Nathaniel

    Even assuming that shooter in the NBC piece was telling the truth, it unsurprising that you could dig up one Remington shotgun, out of ten million plus that have been made, that had a safety failure.

    This does not beget a witch hunt for Remington. This is why we take guns to gunsmiths and inspect them ourselves, for just these sorts of defects.

    What is more likely is that the shooter in question shot himself through his own negligence and made up that story to cover it up. We have only his word to say otherwise.

  • FJ

    Esh325: I don’t believe Remington ever claimed that their shotguns were “infallible.” “Reliable” and “safe” is not the same as “infallible.” Such a claim from any gun maker would be ridiculous.

    • Esh325

      The guy in the video said Remington shotguns were infalliable and that it was like mechanically impossible for them to break.

  • Mr. Fahrenheit

    Bleehhh.

    Mechanical safeties fail. Don’t rely on them. Ever. Shoulda’ learned about proper firearm handling before hurting yourself.

    Regarding Remington, despite what the lovefest in the first video claims, Remington Shotguns are not infallible and reliable. In fact, my experience with them lends to the exact opposite conclusion.

    Whatever, though. Propaganda from both sides.

  • shawn

    In NY State it is ILLEGAL to lean a loaded weapon against a motor vehicle. At least that is what I learned in Hunter Safety.

  • Lance

    I never believe anything Military and arms related out of the main stream media since they lie to make there agenda. I have had a M-870 Express 20ga for a decade and never had mishap. I find it more accurate than any other brand of mass produced shotguns ever.

    As a Officer who carries a long gun at work in a vehicle this was one dumb move by that kid you never have a loaded round in the chamber in a vehicle period all cops with shotguns and AR-15 rifle leave the mag in with a empty chamber to prevent accidents. Unless your in combat ready to shoot or at the range shooting you never have a long gun loaded with a round in the chamber until your ready to shoot.

  • jdun1911

    If this happen 25 years ago the liberal media would have gotten away with the lies. With the creation of the internet and the free flow of information, the brainwashing of the American people has diminished greatly. It still happen but not as much as it used too.

    Anyone remember the Teflon coated bullet that the liberal media said it can defeat body armor? It aired in the 80’s and people believe it. Some states outlawed Teflon coated bullets. How about caseless ammo? Some states outlaw them too because of a reporter reported it was deadlier than normal case ammo. What’s the difference between a caseless and case ammo? One use a case one doesn’t. Hell muskets use caseless ammo right?

    • Matt G.

      I agree with your second paragraph, but I can guarantee that the majority of people are still getting fooled my the media. My generation is waaay to fucking lazy to look up facts.

      • jdun1911

        Yes people are still lazy to look for facts. However with the invent of the internet they now have the options to find the facts. They now have the options to hear the other side of the story.

        Before the internet, information was controlled by the Liberal Media. Direct public opinions was controlled by the Liberal Media. It was very hard for us to get our side of the story out before the creation of the internet.

    • W

      I believe the internet is one of the last frontiers as far as “smuggling” good information. The power of joe blow to post something that would otherwise be dilberately ignored by the MSM is highly advantageous, though the government and MSM also counters by putting out disinformation. Use at your own risk.

      The problem is laziness. People (not just the millenial generation, which ironically, is actually better informed than previous generations) still watch the news and listen to the radio, though do not approach problems from different angles to get proper perspective. Another problem is people still cling arbitrarily to anachronistic concepts like ideology and political parties.

    • W

      liberal media? LOL if we only had a liberal media…

  • James Martinez

    Hey guys, give NBC a break they didn’t have time to fact check their piece on the Remington shotguns, or to partake in even a SINGLE hunter safety or firearms safety class, they were too busy editing 911 calls to hype up stories. News…what a joke they have turned that into.

  • NothingButCorrupt

    ” they were too busy editing 911 calls to hype up stories. News…what a joke they have turned that into.”

    Lol, yep. nbc leans so far to the left their ear bleeds from dragging it through the gutter. Formerly great news agency is circling the bowl.

  • Brad

    I can see it now… government mandated DAO triggers for all shotguns! If it saves the leg of just one football kicker, it’s worth it.

    What do you bet the crossbolt safety was knocked to the fire position when the shotgun in question fell over? That’s more a plausible explanation for the accident than some mystery fault in the 870 trigger group.

    • mred

      Assuming he even had the safety on in the first place.

  • BombedCarnivore

    TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY ARE LOADED. This idiot did not do this.

  • fjkhoury01

    I don’t think that Remington is at fault for what happened to that man however 870’s have been known not to be drop safe (ex cruiser ready) since they came out and I feel as though Remington has not made a notable effort to make this reality known by the majority of firearm consumers.

  • SpudGun

    This is piss poor handling on all sides – and in the hunter’s case – quite literally.

    Before everyone explodes in the usual dogmatic responses, the hunter did take Remington to court, they admitted liability and settled. Does that mean there is an inherent flaw with their product, no not at all, but it does point a finger of suspicion at Remington over this particular case. No wonder NBC jumped all over it.

    Was the hunter ultimately to blame for throwing a chambered and cocked shotgun into the back of his truck? Of course he was, no question. Have NBC overhyped this story to create unnecessary fear and panic? You betcha – but they all do from CNN to Fox. Nothing new there.

    Like all corporations, I would imagine that Remington have a very large and capable legal team, so why not counter sue or issue an injunction? Oh that’s right, Remington admitted liability.

    Finally, from the press release ‘Deceptively editing and ignoring readily available documents and video evidence to drive NBC’s agenda is an all too familiar tactic’ – it is so familiar that Remington used exactly the same tactic to vilify Tom Butters and Jack Velk, even adding their own ominous audio track.

    By creating their own smear campaign and playing dirty pool, Remington have done themselves no favors in the PR department. I’d rather have an engineer scientifically explain why Remington safeties rarely fail then an ex-SEAL giving me anecdotal evidence.

    • Mike

      Settlement isn’t an admission of liability. In a lot of cases, it’s cheaper just to pay the guy to shut up and go away than to fight and prove that you’re right.

      A friend of mine paid (actually, his insurance did) $5000 to a man who tried to rob and murder him, when the criminal sued because my friend shot him and nearly killed him. Insurance company decided it was cheaper to hand the guy $5000 than to fight it out in court. But there was no admission of liability in the settlement.

      • SpudGun

        Hi Mike,

        I understand what you are saying and that in personal cases, it might well be easier and cheaper to settle. But Remington are a large corporation with a full time legal department, it really wouldn’t cost them a lot of money to take on a lone hunter in court.

        As the report stated, the hunter had medical bills that totalled in the thousands and no company is just going to blindly hand over huge amounts of cash unless the evidence suggested liability and that they would lose in court.

        Maybe Remington should have taken a leaf out of Toyota’s book and denied everything until the bodies started piling up.

      • Mike

        That case I referenced actually was a corporation (insurance company) that settled. They’ve got tons of money; an insurance company isn’t really anything but money. But like any other company, insurance companies have to manage that cashflow. Five grand to get the guy to shut up and go away was cheaper than fighting him and winning.

        Even for Remington, settling is cheaper. Lawyers are extremely expensive, and a good way to hang on to a lot of money is to not throw it away.

        If a CEO sees that a lawsuit is probably going to cost him $100,000 in lawyers, but he can cut a check to the guy suing him for $50,000, it’s a no-brainer.

        So no, I doubt Remington admitted liability, but we’ll never know for sure since the settlement agreement is sealed.

        As far as the “problem” with Toyotas… there never was one. Another media hype job.

      • Riceball

        From what I understand that’s what Disney does whenever someone tries to sue them over something that happened to them in one of their parks. Of course the caveat being that as long as they’re not greedy thinking that because they have deep pockets they can get a big settlement. Having deep pockets cuts both ways, while it does mean that they can afford to pay out big this also means that they can’t afford to drag out a case to the point where the plaintiff can’t afford it any more but the big company with its deep pockets can.

  • 276pedersen

    Mechanical safeties can fail, and he should have acted differently – assuming his version of events is true. However I can’t help but wonder if everyone who is so quick to say keep your firearms unloaded CC’s with one in the chamber. Flame away.

    • 276pedersen

      To clarify, I know that many handguns are drop safe etc and are not apples to apples comparable with a shotgun 20 years ago, just wondering if people practice in reality what they say on the web.

    • Sian

      With all respect, that’s kind of apples to footballs.

      a CC weapon needs to be brought into service quickly and with one hand. A n 870 can be safely stored with the chamber open, (or hammer down on a snap cap) and made ready to fire in the very same act of picking it up or bringing it on-target.

  • Komrad

    Even as a Mossberg guy, I don’t like this.

  • http://www.operatorchan.org balci

    I gave away my 870 express to a fellow soldier for free, that’s how much I liked that gun.

    But this is still bullshit, the gun might be seriously flawed, thinking mainly about the flimsy extractor, the pinned magazine tube, and the bolt you can’t work on, but it would never explode.

  • raven

    This is why I don’t watch the news…

    What is the world coming to? You get fat from eating fast food every day and you can sue a fast food company. You spill hot coffee in your lap because you’re clumsy and you can sue the place that sold you the coffee. You shoot yourself from piss poor gun handling and you can sue the gun maker.

    Yes, NBC is so full of shit you can smell it on your TV from another room. If anyone believes the garbage they spit out they are completely ignorant to the subject in question and form innaccurate opinions. HOWEVER, I do agree with big green should have done a little better in the PR department.

    Oh well. I’ve been shooting since I could hold a gun, a firearm owner since I was old enough to purchase one, and today own multiple 870s. Never once have I had any accidental or negligant discharges. Anything mechanical can and will fail, which is why I practice gun safety… and that’s one of THE very first things they teach you.

    Wasn’t there a big story a while back about model 700 triggers just magically firing by themselves? If memory serves me correct, some jackass adjusted their trigger super light and they shot someone and it’s the guns fault and not the uneducated firearm owner.

    • W

      yes, CNBC televised a investigation called “Remington under fire”, which i recently watched on netflix after reading about this article.

  • Awake

    I agree with NBC in this case. It is not a case of yellow journalism, it is a case of reminding people of the truth. Sadly most gun owners are ignorant of the dangers built into a shotgun or rifle, since they don’t know how the different “safeties” actually work.

    Shotguns are NOT “drop safe”. Most rifles are NOT “drop safe”. It is time that this “defect” be fixed.

    Lets compare a shotgun to a modern handgun. If you look at most modern handguns, they have a mechanism that physically locks the actual firing pin unless the trigger is intentionally pulled. The firing pin lock keeps the actual firing pin from moving unless several things happen (safety off, magazine inserted, trigger fully pulled.) Many handguns even have “inertial” safeties that keep the pin in place in case of a high-G impact, such as that experienced when a gun is dropped.

    In a typical rifle or shotgun, you have a lock for the trigger (the safety), but you don’t have an actual lock for the firing pin. A cocked shotgun that is dropped can release the firing pin for many reasons without the trigger being moved. Just bouncing the gun against something can cause the sear to bounce, releasing the hammer and hitting the unsecured firing pin, firing the gun without touching the trigger.

    An additional problem with shotguns is that there is no way to keep empty the chamber without loading an additional shell, so once chambered it is too much trouble to clear the gun. You have to cycle all the shells through, and then reload the whole thing, so people don’t properly clear the weapon once a round has been chambered. A simple hold-back latch for the shells in the tube would solve that problem.

    Police have always trained to keep the chamber empty in a shotgun until right before it needs to be fired, and to clear the gun entirely when it’s possible use has passed, precisely because the weapons are not drop-safe.

    It is time that firing mechanisms on rifles and shotguns be brought up to 21st century safety standards, specially for the common consumer. This is one area where the NRA fails dismally again. It costs money to change a production line to fix a problem, so expect the NRA to fight modernizing weapons to modern safety standards, since the NRA represents manufacturers, not gun owners. Let the misinformation begin, specially by NRA dupes and people that don’t know how guns actually work.

    • C3P0

      While your comment is fair and well-informed, I take exception with one statement: “An additional problem with shotguns is that there is no way to keep empty the chamber without loading an additional shell, so once chambered it is *too much trouble* to clear the gun.” Is it easier to let the loaded weapon discharge if/when it falls/is dropped?

      In the specific case, the gentleman in question failed to properly control the direction of the muzzle and did not ensure the weapon was unloaded when he was finished shooting.

      Not all weapons are drop safe and no-one should routinely handle any firearm as if it is.

      • Riplakish

        As a matter of safety, no one should ever assume any weapon is drop/impact/idiot safe. Period. You should consider yourself lucky if it is.

      • Nadnerbus

        Whatever truth you have in this comment (and there is a lot of truth to this, even if I don’t agree with your conclusion), you know damn well that NBC does not give a rat’s butt about firearm safety. Hit piece journalism combined with predatory law suits will not do anything to further the aims of law abiding firearm owners. It will further the aims of anti-gun, pro-regulatory types that would like to get into every aspect of gun safety, now that the Supreme Court has taking gun baning off the table. Safe guns are not their aim, a complicated regulatory process that increases the costs and hassle of gun ownership is. I live in California, I know what I’m talking about.

        I’ve only put a hundred or so shells through my 870, but I am comfortable with its soundness. I would never chamber a round until I am ready to shoot anyway, and if I wanted to clear the chamber with a loaded magazine, I’d just hold the next round in the tube with my thumb while I rack the slide to clear the chamber. I don’t see how this requires trial lawyers and the courts to jump in on my behalf.

      • Nadnerbus

        shoot that was supposed to be addressed to Awake. Wish I had an edit button =)

    • somebody

      you cant clear the chamber of a shotgun without putting a new round back in when you move the pump forward? on remingtons and mossbergs you can push the shell in the tube forward with the pump about halfway back then pump it the rest of the way and a new shell wont come out, on winchester 1200s you can push the shell lifter up with the pump a little further than half way and it will stick up then pump it the rest of the way and the next shell that will come out of the tube will eject downward instead of being loaded into the barrel, and benelli is starting to put a button on the pump that you can press while pumping it and it wont load another round.

      also on making rifle triggers like handgun triggers, are you crazy. not all hammer fired pistols have a firing pin block(shotguns have a hammer inside them), also do you want companies to start making bolt actions with complete shit “glock safe action” style triggers? because that is my experience on handguns with a firing pin block

      • Awake

        >> benelli is starting to put a button on the pump that you can press while pumping it and it wont load another round.

        So there is at least one well respected company that is starting to do things right. Instead of saying “good enough” to the other companies, we should be demanding that similar safety features be built-in.

        >> also on making rifle triggers like handgun triggers, are you crazy. not all hammer fired pistols have a firing pin block(shotguns have a hammer inside them)

        Almost EVERY modern handgun has a firing pin lock. Even if they do not have a manual safety, they have a firing pin block.
        =========

        It all boils down to this. A gun should not fire, regardless of it’s loaded condition, unless the person handling it commands it to fire.

        Would you consider acceptable a handgun that can accidentally go off if an elevator door happens to close on you and you carry with one in the chamber? That is the equivalent of what is happening with shotguns.

        At least with a handgun, you can carry uncocked with one in the chamber, something impossible to do with a shotgun.

        It is time that these old designs be modernized. It is to our own benefit as gun owners. As long as we excuse outdated safety designs being used in current production, we are just giving more tools to those that want to restrict our gun rights.

      • somebody

        >So there is at least one well respected company that is starting to do things right. >Instead of saying “good enough” to the other companies, we should be demanding >that similar safety features be built-in.

        why should we demand it be built in when I already covered in my previous comment that you don’t need it and can already avoid loading another round into the chamber?

        >Would you consider acceptable a handgun that can accidentally go off if an elevator >door happens to close on you and you carry with one in the chamber? That is the >equivalent of what is happening with shotguns.

        that isn’t even close to what is happening here, can you even name a handgun without a firing pin block that would go off in that situation when carried correctly(as in a 1911 carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber is not the correct way to carry it as it is not safe for you to attempt to put it in that condition)

        >At least with a handgun, you can carry uncocked with one in the chamber, something >impossible to do with a shotgun.

        you can’t safely do that with all handguns as not all of them have a decocker, also it is irrelevant for it to be possible to do that on a shotgun as it would require the shotgun to have a double action single action trigger which as of now i dont think any are made because no one wants a shitty trigger pull on their shotgun when they can just keep it with a loaded magazine with the bolt down on an empty chamber which would be just as fast to ready as a shotgun with a double action single action trigger and would have a better trigger pull on the first shot

        >It is time that these old designs be modernized. It is to our own benefit as gun >owners. As long as we excuse outdated safety designs being used in current >production, we are just giving more tools to those that want to restrict our gun >rights.

        I would take an “unsafe” trigger where the gun isn’t drop safe that actually has a decent trigger pull over a complete shit trigger, seriously we already have the heavier lawyer triggers now you want the pull to be longer too? are you trying to make shooting accurately over longer distances impossible?

    • W

      but despite your lengthy comment, it still doesnt change the fact that if you do something stupid with a firearm, you push it beyond its safe mechanical limits. Propping up a weapon on the side of your vehicle, still loaded, is fucking stupid.

      Im sure if remington’s shotguns/rifles were generally unsafe, that would gather intense traction within online forums, magazines, and youtube videos. But NBC likes to appear as the muckraker, even though their corporate media is rotted corrupt to the core, root, and stem.

    • Mike

      The fact that you don’t think you can clear the chamber of an 870 without another shell feeding shows how very ignorant you are of the system’s operation. Removing a shell from the chamber of an 870 is extremely simple:

      Push the lever to release the bolt.

      Bring the fore end about half way back.

      Reach into the loading port and push forward on the base of the shell in the magazine. You should feel a click. If not, bring the fore end back a little further and try again.

      After “clicking” the shell in the magazine, eject the live shell from the chamber.

      This doesn’t work with a Mossberg shotgun, but you can just roll the next shell out of the gun to make the chamber clear.

      There are even tricks to autoloaders like my FN SLP (crosses over with Browning Silver and SX2/SX3). On those shotguns, you just push the shell carrier up and eject the shell from the chamber – it won’t feed another in.

      Also, I’m pretty sure you’re unclear on what makes a firearm “not drop-safe.”

      In conclusion, at least know basic procedures before you start criticizing firearms as “unsafe”.

    • Brad

      Enjoy your DAO shotgun!

  • schizuki

    If they wanted to hang Remington for something, how about for utterly destroying the good name of Marlin?

  • RollButt

    Rule #1: Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

    User error; he should have placed the shotgun on the gound unloaded.

    Don’t blame Remington, blame yourself.

  • http://canadianfirearms.wordpress.com Canadian Firearms Blog

    http://canadianfirearms.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/yet-another-nbc-hit-piece-on-remington/

    Leaving a loaded shotgun with the safety on leaned on a pickup truck resulted in this fellow getting shot in the leg.

    So many problems with this

    a loaded gun out of your care and control.
    Trusting the safety actually works
    Obviously not respecting safe muzzle direction.

    So buddy violates ACTS and PROVES, shoots himself in the leg and sues Remington. We have some odd neighbors down-south… This is purely an operator issue and he deserves nothing.

    I walk kilometers at a time with my 870 and if I need to “put it down”, even all alone out in the woods, I will unload the chamber, do what I have to do, then reload. If I manage to shoot myself, it will be my fault no matter what.

    870′s are just fine, it’s again, poor decision making that enchains an unfortunate series of events.

  • Chucky

    Oh but there IS an inherent design flaw in all this: the shooter.

    That or media. They always screw things up.

    • W

      and they (the media and shooter) are both human…and a machine is only as smart as the human behind it :D

  • Jacob

    I think people’s expectations are too low.

    Look at the posts, over and over again you see “mechanical safeties fail”.

    That’s a bad thing, and while that belief should direct your behavior, the design on a lot of firearms leaves a lot to be desired. A 50+ year old design that can’t pass a drop test with the safety on. Seriously. Is that the standard for performance we should expected on a $400 shotgun.

    I have a mossberg. The safety on that is a POS. Honestly if I’d realized how bad it was I probably wouldn’t have bought it and if I ran into the designer I’d probably hit him in the head with the nearest hard object.

    I don’t think government regulation is necessarily the answer I also don’t object if people sue. That’s the trade off. Either the industry is regulated by the consumer or the government.

    If you dropped your IPhone, it exploded and lit you on fire wouldn’t you be pissed off at Apple. Why should I hold a gun manufacturer to a lower level of engineering expectations just because they happen to manufacture guns.

    For what guns cost these days I should be able to put the safety on and jump around on the thing like a pogo stick.

    • W

      Jacob, i think its not that people’s expectations are to low, but rather naysayers expectations are too high: as in they don’t understand the mechanical variables that can lead a safety failing, however slight those odds may be.

      I agree with you. I think if a safety can be adequately improved then it should be.

      Using a Heckler & Koch USP pistol as a example, which has the finest safety features in my opinion, i don’t even rely 100% on the mechanics. The best safety features are essential, though I believe people become too reliant on mechanical impliments and dont pay attention to little, but critical details i.e. not pointing your gun at anything you dont want to destroy AT ALL TIMES.

      • Sean

        While safeties can be improved, this was a clear cut case of negligence on the owners part. Ask a 12 year who has passed a hunters education course and they will tell you that the only time a weapon is safe is when the chamber is empty and the action is open. Plain and simple.

        He says that the gun safety was engaged. The 870 design is over sixty years old and there haven’t been issues before. It’s far more likely that he didn’t have the safety engaged and is now trying to avoid looking like an ass, and failing admirably.

    • Bandito762

      If you dropped your Iphone and then it failed to function in the way it was intended you couldn’t really get mad though…

    • Nanban Jim

      I think safeties could and should be improved.

      Including the safety of my car. Why we’re manufacturing a 50+ year old tire design is beyond me. Mid-profile, 8+ inch wide tires please. Brakes stop your wheel; tires stop your CAR.

      But y’know what stops your car even better?

      Controlling your speed, paying attention, being courteous and sporting to other drivers, allowing room for error, accepting that others will make mistakes, and accepting that neither you nor anyone else on the road is in a Koenigsegg.

      Wow, I guess the analogy applies to firearms. Control your use of the tool, pay attention, be courteous and sporting, allow room for error, accept that others will make mistakes, accept that you haven’t paid half a million dollars for it.

      By the by, where I come from the fact that you can drop your iPhone and have it become nonfunctional is horrible function. It is a SMALL, ROUNDED OBJECT, carried in the HAND, with ZERO GRIP SURFACES. Who in their right mind does NOT expect that to be dropped once per week?

      This as opposed to a weapon with multiple grip surfaces, a function which like a chainsaw is known to be dangerous, and an easy way to make it safe.

      The only iPhone analogy to make is that this twit expecting the weapon to be totally safe when it has ammo in it is like expecting your iPhone to consume 0 battery charge when turned off with the battery in it.

      A proper analogy would be if he’d leaned an idling chainsaw on his truck and was surprised that it had fallen over, somehow engaged and chewed into his ankle. We’d all be saying “hey stupid! Don’t leave it idling, turn it all the way off so there’s no fuel in the combustion chamber AND you should really have the damn sheath you nitwit!”

  • http://www.therebelbroker.com Rebelbroker

    So I am not a firearms expert by any means. I was taught by some folks I respect.

    On the subject of safeties, I have always been taught that if there is a round in the chamber and the action is closed, there is no such thing as “safe” – just “safer”. Your typical safety is simply going to assure that the trigger cannot be pulled. That is a good thing, but simply not being able to pull the trigger does not guarantee that the weapon will not fire if a round is in the chamber and the action is closed.

    When we are at the range, there is a reason why range masters want our weapons laid down with the action open.

    This is not about a failure of the weapon, but a failure of the user. If you take a weapon of any kind and leave a round in the chamber with all the various safety mechanisms engaged, you can still get a discharge if that weapon is dropped in just the right way.

  • Jaymes

    Pulling the trigger makes it fire! How unsafe is that?! F**k you Remington for producing this deathtrap.

    – NBC

    lol.

  • alex

    what do they teach you in hunter ed class? ” a safety is a mechanical device and it can and will fail.” dont think about the safety, think about the round you have in the chamber.

  • me

    I started to watch the nbc piece and quickly realized that the injured hunter is an IDIOT! He wants someone else to pay for his mistakes, is not willing to accept responsibility for his actions. People like this are everywhere and they continue to destoy the country with their laziness and irresponsibile ways. The fire did not fail the hunter, the hunter failed the firearm and the sport. He should never ,ever be allowed to posses a firearm or engage in any firearm related activities for the rest of his life.

  • Mike

    The guy that shot himself claims he did nothing wrong? Yeah, leaning a loaded shotgun up against your truck is doing something wrong. First things first – unload your weapon. THEN stow your gear.

    On a personal note, my 870 is a hard-use gun, and it’s been dropped several times, some of them while loaded, and never has the hammer fallen that I didn’t pull the trigger first. I built this gun from a bare receiver, and feel completely confident in the trigger assembly that Remington uses.

    Apparently the “flaw” the “expert” sees in the trigger is that it doesn’t have one of his devices installed.

  • NickB

    One word, aggravation, God forbid(honestly forbid it God) they ever found out about bump firing stocks they would do a compleat blowout on the “Secret automatic firearms” and pay some “Firearms expert” to give evidence(youtube videos) and say that it has the possibility of turning a AR-15 into a fully auto M4. for this subject though I have one thing to say, would you lie down on the ground and have your friend drop it right infront of your face fully loaded but the safty is on? What about 6 times? Would you buy a gun that would fire on the 2nd drop, because I would, I would just follow STANDARD safty rules about keeping your gun unloaded when storing. Please let me know what you guys think, even if you don’t agree, I’d like to know why.

  • Zermoid

    I don’t know about where he was hunting, but here in PA it is illegal to lean any gun against a vehicle, loaded or unloaded. And anyone with a few working brain cells unloads when returning to their truck.

    And as has been said before, any hunter ed class I’ve ever seen points out that ANY mechanical device can fail, safety, trigger, barrel, anything. you must assume it WILL fail at some point and act accordingly.

    • Jeremy

      In the state of georgia any gun is supposed to be fully unloaded within 150 feet or 50 yards of any public road, right of way, or inpoundment. Even in the remington manual is says to assume the gun is loaded and able to fire at all times. The guy that was shot just made himself look even dumber saying “In my mind I’m sure I did nothing wrong”. Well…. you propped a loaded gun up against a truck and forgot about it. I’m sure that where ever he’s from has a law about having a loaded gun close to a public road! His carelessness and stupidity got him shot, not a gun malfunction. I’ve worked on remington shotguns for years now and I’ve never found any “defects” with the trigger operation in any I’ve seen. The only true “safety is an unloaded gun! The safest safety on the market is a rolling pin safety and I know of no shotgun that has that kind of safety. The only type of firearm I’ve seen a rolling pin safety on is a single action pistol. I just can’t get over how dumb this guy was and is. He even goes on national T.V. and shows just how stupid he really is! Some people are born without the ability of learning common sense! lol

  • Grayson

    NBC.

    Abbreviation for “Nothing But Crap”.

    Enough said.

  • longspur

    Safe handling end of story. Guns aren’t designed to be dropped only in an accident situation. Screwdrivers aren’t prydrivers and cars aren’t boats. Use anything as not intended and bad outcomes are lurking.

  • Hrachya Hayrapetyan

    The problem is not with safeties on guns but with safety mechanisms in peoples’ brains, who just do not follow simple rules of gun safety.
    Leave Remington alone and let it make it’s state of the art guns…

    LET THE LEGEND MAKE LEGENDS !!!

  • John Doe

    I’m willing to bet these ‘experts’ have never touched a Remington.

  • Jeremy

    Sounds to me like these so called experts are just ignorant people trying to make money any way they can. Including blackmailing firearms companys by saying buy my product and I’ll quit testifying against you. This is just plain bullsh**! I would be willing to bet that this is just a small part of Obamas smear campagin against guns and gun owners! I would also be willing to bet if Obama gets reelected, we will lose not only out guns and our gun rights but many other freedoms we take for granted! I think it’s time we stood up and impeached this so called “american” president! He is against everything America stands for because it’s against his beliefs!I would love to see remington and other gun companys and any other company who is against Obama, start a petition to have Obama thrown out of office and out of the country! He was NOT born in the U.S. and should not have been elected president anyway! If major companys start a petition I am sure there would be enough signatures to start the impechment proceedings and investigations! Please listen Remington or any other major company!!! If I have to Drive all the way to D.C from Georgia to sign the petition I will!!! I’m on a fixed income and am severely disabled and even with the gas prices as high as they are I would still Drive there to sign a petition of this importance!!!! God bless everyone and thanks for reading.

    • jdun1911

      Looks like you offended liberal loving pro obama gun control lurkers here.

      • James

        Funny that it’s either with us or against us with you guys… There’s no way anyone can be pro-Obama and like guns. No way someone could be conservative and understand the need for certain social programs (that your above disabled party is taking part in, ‘fixed income’)…

        All or nothing, remember that boys, and this will be how the country continues to fall..

      • W

        jdun knock it off.

        this “us versus them, right vs. left” bullshit is rediculous. Shit like this is the reason why politics has become so toxic in our time, to where it becomes a question of re-election…americas well being? be damned with it.

    • John Doe

      Apparently you misinterpreted ‘Firearms, not Politics’ as ‘RANT ABOUT OBAMA’.

  • BOB

    This crap really piss me off i have an 870 and 1100 and a 700 all of these with no problems I have used them for years and have put 1000s of rounds thru them never had one go off when i did not want it to.This guy broke all the safety rules and now he think Remington should pay for his stupidity if it would be up to me this guy would not be allowed to ever own a gun again This is kind of crap that is hurting Responsible gun owners

  • mica

    why would you listent to news that is lie,s everone know msnbc has a adgenda so why bouther listining to fool,s and those who have no idear what thire talking about

  • http://www.twobirdsflyingpub.wordpress.com Sal Palma

    This certainly is not the capstone of irresponsible journalism but it comes close. Firearms are no different than any machine out there but who ever produced this piece has done zero research and it shows. More people have been injured or killed in defective Toyotas than with a Remington product.

  • M.G. Halvorsen

    Being 59 years old and having handled firearms for 50 of those years, I can honestly attest that the first three lessons my father taught me were:
    1. Never point a firearm at anybody!
    2. Always treat every firearm as if it were loaded and ready to fire.
    3. When you pick up a firearm, ALWAYS check the chamber to see if it’s loaded.
    This kind of reporting fails to point out these glaring firearms safety rules that almost everyone who is a RESPONSIBLE firearm owner follows religiously. This case sounds like a set-up, to me.

  • Otis

    What happened to “Firearms not Politics”

    • Mike

      Since when is calling someone on a lie “politics”?

  • wootabaga

    There is no safety that is idiot proof, whether it be guns, vehicles, electronics, etc. You can improve the safety on anything as much as you want, but there will always be idiots that will end up hurting themselves… You can’t fix stupid, and the more that people try to do this, not only will it not be successful, but it will make the experience of everybody else much less enjoyable. Also, may I add, it is mechanical, it does not have a brain, there is no such thing as total safety from any type of machine if you are an idiot. I agree, if they can make a better safety, then gun manufacturers should. Why wouldn’t they though? I’m sure gun manufacturers take pride in making the best gun possible to sell more guns and to have a good name.

    Guns don’t hurt people, its idiots or crazy people that do. We are the ones with brains, to expect more out of a mechanical device than what you expect out of yourself and your own common sense is sad. This is comparable to driving home drunk, getting in an accident, and then suing the car manufacturer because it didn’t make a device that prevented you from going off the road, even though you were an idiot and drove home drunk.

    What we should be worried about is the media and how they have the power to turn and twist any story how they want it to make it look the way they want it to look… that and stupid, ignorant people.

  • Bob Z Moose

    I know someone who has had an 1100 since the late ’60s and used it for everything from trapshooting to dove, duck, and quail hunting. The thing must have had thousands of rounds through it, yet nary a single problem.

    It’s ridiculous to think that manufacturing can be so tightly controlled that no product with slip through with some problems. Isn’t that why everything that we buy has a warning label or some sort of disclaimer on it? Sad state of affairs when our media has to push something so full of air, but it’s been that way for a long time…

  • squashpup

    I grew up in a house with an 870 and a 700 rifle.

    Somehow, I survived. I don’t recall the guns firing at random.

  • Mark

    I bought my first 870 Wingmaster when I was 15 – that was 31 years ago and I still deer hunt with it. I’ve added many more guns to my safe over the years including 3 more 870’s for myself and my kids. NEVER has one of the 870’s, or any gun for that matter, ‘accidentally’ gone off because of the gun safety rules I was taught and that I have taught my kids.

    Here’s my issue with this guys ‘story’ of how he shot himself in the leg… He says he leaned his loaded gun against the wheelwell of his truck (which is just plain dumb) and it fell over and went off… I’m assuming that it had to have fallen all the way to the ground for there to have been enough force to disengage the trigger sear in order for the round to go off and cleanly hit him with a load of bird shot. If it did hit the ground and go off, how did the shot end up above his knee? The guys whole story is bunk. If he leaned the gun INSIDE the wheelwell and it tipped and hit something, there would be either (1) not enough force to jar the sear loose or (2) too much truck material for a load of shot to go through to hit him. His whole story just doesn’t add up to anyone who thinks it through… Even his own voice was shaky – and in a practiced and repeated interview – which raises doubt right there.

    Stupid is as Stupid does.

  • Yegor

    When I read a story about some poor unfortunate guy who did nothing wrong and was badly injured, and as we all know leaning a chambered weapon against a truck is the correct procedure for the safe handling of any weapon, I wonder if perhaps there should be an IQ test required before anyone be allowed even in the same room with a weapon.

    I swear civilization is making us dumber by the day. This idiot survived his own stupidity because of modern technology and has no doubt further infected the gene pool. Fundamentally I completely agree with the 2nd amendment but I’m pretty sure the average Joe on the street in the 18th century was a hell of a lot brighter than the idiots modern technology has created to infest the planet. I would imagine if the average 18th century American (or anyone else from that time period) were to read this story, he or she would laugh at the duck hunter for being such a boob. I have seen some terribly irresponsible acts with guns but is this guy serious?

    That being said, after looking at the injury, and being somewhat familiar with shotguns and spread patterns, I’m having trouble figuring how a weapon (presumably loaded with bird shot or BB) at fairly close range could hit the ground and produce such an injury. Were the guy mishandling the weapon and managed to shoot himself, I could see such a wound. I wasn’t there and I’m no forensic expert but I do have some small bit of experience with shotguns and this guy’s story just doesn’t seem true.

  • http://www.youtube.com/lordstickmax LordStickMax

    what a fuckin’ idiot!

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  • will416-9

    What a Damn money hungry IDIOT,i know the economy is tough… but geez. COMMON SENSE,always check to see if the weapon is unloaded,hell,check after u go anywhere with a loaded weapon. I am about to get a Remington 870 in 20 gauge for home defense,and HUNTING. Hunting safety courses teach you safety rules for guns,but ALWAYS CHECK TO SEE IF THE GUN IS LOADED.