More MP7 in Afganistan
After I posted a photo of a German Soldier's MP7 taken Afghanistan, readers emailed in more photos of the MP7 in Afghanistan. The first shows an MP7 being used by a Viking Norwegian IEDD/EOD specialist. The MP7's very low recoil, high rate of fire and penetration make it the ideal weapon for a IED specialist, much better than the Beretta M9 we saw used in the Hurt Locker movie. The second photo is of two Bundeswehr soldiers in Afghanistan. The solider on the right is carrying the standard H&K G36.
Norwegian IEDD/EOD specialist.
Bundeswehr soldier in Afganistan
[ Many thanks to Mathias, Mike & Kjetil for emailing me the photos. ]
The tactical firearms unit of the Gardai, the Irish police force use the MP7. Two reasons were given for the change from the Uzi. More accurate at longer range and increasing numbers of criminals using body armour that defeated the 9mm.
If by “better” you mean “inaccurate, unwieldy, and heavy”, then sure the L1A1 is better. You need to appreciate the primary battlefield that rendered the L1A1 obsolete and ushered in the L85: Northern Ireland, a battlefield where a 7.62mm battle rifle was completely inappropriate. Overpenetration became a PIRA propaganda tool; when your rounds are blasting completely through the bad guys and going on to hit the women, children, and various other random civilians nearby, you’re giving moral victories to the enemy. The L85 was a preview for the overwhelming popularity of the M4A1 in Iraq; short, lightweight, and equipped with magnified optics to allow for precision fire when there’s always going to be civilians nearby.
The L1A1 is a better weapon than the L-85 anyway.
Yeah, thank god, that we are not so crazy like the UK (but we are close^^)
Apparently british marines still have a few SLR’s left lying around. SAS apparently use Slr’s or AR15′s more than the L85
You dont need armorpericing power for combat in afghanistain you need better kock down power which 9mm is better than 4.6mm.
If they are shooting at you with a 7.62mm short from an AK at 200 – 300 meters – alll the knock down power of that 9mm wont mean a thing as you’d be better off mailing the enemy your rounds.
Thank goodness Germany isn as Liberal Crazy as the UK is.
@ Buster Charlie
Are you serious?
Of course they are given ammo when they are in Afghanistan. Anything other would have been suicide.
Or did you mean while serving back in Europe?
Guys,
These is a PDW, not a pellet gun or a battle rifle. It fires a 4.6 x 30mm. For those of you dissing, the bullet penetrates body armor. The 9mm round at its best loading does not.
For a PDW, it makes sense. It is not for long range shooting. It is a Personal Defense Weapon. For drivers and EOD workers and medics and others who would be weighted down by a full size battle rifle, it is a good weapon.
@ Lance:
The G1 (FN FAL) weren´t shreddered completely. A lot of them have been sold.
And our G3 weren´t shreddered, too: Many of those rifles are sold or “tuned-up” to DMR´s.
Regards,
Christoph
I’ve seen Royal Marines with beards too. My understanding is that they’re allowed when deployed in Afghanistan as a part of winning hearts and minds. In Afghanistan a man without a beard is considered a boy and not given much respect. So for an Afghan, speaking to a man with a beard is better than speaking to a man with a chin shaved blue.
Odd cartridge for a cool gun. You’d think the TP9 by B&T would be a better option. It’s roughly the same size as the MP7. If you’re close enough to use the MP7, you’re close enough to use 9mm, which I think would be better.
Any info on the combat performance of the 4.6 round?
Did they say the mp7 had high penetration?
Britain bought the LMT AR-10, not the LWRC, actually.
Anyway. A PDW is an ideal arm for a soldier whose primary job is blowing things up.
I wonder if they’re even given ammo?
I’ve heard too many stories about European armies not issuing their soldiers ammo…
Real help there.
The “chamber pot” is an afghan pressure boiler i think, they are sometimes used to make ied’s. As for the “iphone” I know that our swedish EOD guys have some kinde of tablet with info on minefields and different kind of mines, explosives etc…maybe something similair?
I would be super-PISSED if they took away my Uzi and gave me a full auto pellet gun. I’d take a beater-ass Uzi over a plastic pop-gun any day. “It shoots through body armor! Hey! You never know! You might actually see a terrorist who’s wearing some at some point!” They don’t wear uniforms, and they don’t wear shoes, but I’m sure they’ll be wearing body armor.
Well, I haven’t heard much on how effective it is at putting someone down, but I can say for certain, that unless you are in a contact under 50 yards away, the MP7 will out perform any pistol calibre carbine. It will accurately drop targets at 100 meters+, and will even hit at 200m. Whether they stay down is another story.
The 4.6mm is apparently designed to penetrate soft armour, yet tumble upon hitting a soft mass, creating a much lager cavitation -dumping its kinetic energy. The high velocity round is less likely to over penetrate than a 125grain JSP 9x19mm round.
In most cases it will out perform an UZI, or even an MP5 – but its no assault rifle!
@Christoph
No No thats so sad no G-1s or early G-3s all scraped you need to save them. Briton made same mistake and scrapped there L1A1s and when they needed a DMR in Afghanistain they had hardly any apart from a few the SAS had left and had to buy LWRC AR-10s. So save your G-3s you may need them.
@Jim: The MP7 is afaik the only Gun with this caliber.
@cju: Maybe this Soldier has a G36, too. But when, then only in the long (standart) Version. The G36C isn´t in use from the (normal) Bundeswehr. It is only used by KSK (Kommando SpezialKraefte / SpecialForces)
-
The normal German Soldier can´t choose, which weapon he gets: For normal it´s a P8 and a G36. If the soldier is driving a car (MP or Medic) he gets a MP7 as third weapons. For Close-Combat-Defense the Driver has a G36k
Greets,
Chris
The bottom line, to me:
The MP7 makes an effective sidearm for defensive combat. It isn’t a rifle, but it can go anywhere. One of the side lessons of Fort Hood is that saturation is plenty lethal, in a pinch.
Hey, Guys!
I think in Future you will see much more Photo´s of German Soldiers with MP7. The MP7 will replace the MP2 (Uzi) in the arsenals of the Bundeswehr. As far as i know, some Uzi´s are still in use in Afghanistan. The last soldiers using the MP2 are those from the Feldjaeger (Military Police). In 2012 the last Uzi´s will leave Afghanistan and be destroyed here in Germany (Yes, our Army destroys most of the old Guns!).
Regards from Germany,
Christoph
For bomb tech the MP-7s smaller size to the older MP-5 is more suited. Are these 9mm NATO or 4.8mm weapons?
It’s sized more like an Uzi or a compact smg than a pistol, I guess that’s what it was trying to do.
I just wish someone would import a semi-auto version or maybe make a shell for the 10/22 charger pistol or something.
Nobody using P90 ?
Any ‘in the know’ care to explain the actual function of the EOD guy’s chamber pot?
Wouldn’t the guy in the 2nd pic be better off with a G36C or something?
Kat Bigelow, here’s your material for Hurt Locker 2! (Screw Spilberg and his blue people tribe).
BTW, who make those bomb suit? I’ve never seen other brand/type than the same suit from Afghanistan to iRaq to Hurt Locker..
Lighter, cheaper and more accessory friendly than a MP5. Why not?
they prolly played call of duty
Look how much more badass those guys with their beards, esp the one with the MP7…interesting that they’re allowed to have them when our troops aren’t.
As for the MP7, is anyone really confident in that little 4.6mm round?
That’s funny, I never realized that the MP7 uses something other than 9mm. Is the MP7 the only weapon in common use that takes this ammo? Do these guys have to provide their own ammo?
Man, every time I see a German soldier I think to myself “I wish we could grow beards like that.” Awesome.
Any idea what’s strapped to his wrist? it ALMOST looks like an iphone w/ apps but clearly isnt
That Norwegian guy is the most bad ass and kitted up chai boy I’ve ever seen…
H&K MP-7: When a pellet gun isn’t enough, and a .22LR is too much.