H&K wins USMC IAR competition [Big News!]
After a year of speculation and commentary from pundits, myself included, the Marine Times reports that the H&K has won the competition and that their entry will enter production next year ...
The Marine Corps has selected the infantry automatic rifle made by Heckler & Koch as the weapon that will replace the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon in infantry fire teams, a senior service official told Marine Corps Times on Wednesday.
The H&K IAR “was truly the best in the class on multiple levels and will finally allow the billet of automatic rifleman to be performed as intended without the disruption of the squad integrity that the M249 created,” Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jeffrey Eby, the Corps’ senior gunner, said in an e-mail.
Despite what is said in the above quotation, I do not think that the SAW is being replaced outright. The Marine Times has at times reported that the SAW would be replaced with the IAR, and at other times reported that it would augment the IAR, not replace it ...
The plan is to buy 4,100 IARs and reduce the number of SAWs in the Corps from 10,000 to 8,000, Cantwell said.
“We are still going to maintain SAWs in the company,” he said. “Only 2,000 SAWs will be replaced. The reminder will be kept as an organizational weapon for when commanders need them.”
The H&K entry was a modified version of their HK416 piston-operated AR-15 rifle. Unlike the Colt and FN entries, it is said to fire only from a closed bolt. Given the lack of an open-bolt fire mode I had presumed it was the least likely choice for an automatic rifle.
Presumably it is fitted with a heavy barrel, like H&K's previous, and commercially unsuccessful, attempt at the automatic rifle: the MG36. The Marine Corps has been reporting the weight of the 16.5" barreled H&K IAR as being 7.9 lbs. This is not possible as a standard 16.5" barreled Hk416 weights in at 7.84 lbs. I also think that the photo of the H&K IAR shown by the Military Times is that of a standard HK416.
![hk416 14 5 links tfb tm H&K wins USMC IAR competition [Big News!] photo](http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/hk416_14_5_links-tfb.jpg "hk416 14 5 links tfb tm H&K wins USMC IAR competition [Big News!] photo")
I have contacted H&K to see if they are willing to publicly acknowledge if they have won. If they do, I will endeavor to get the specs of the new weapon.
UPDATE: The Marines Times has an updated article here.
Many thanks to Mark and Matt for sending me the news.
Interesting that the closed bolt design won.
That *is* interesting. I mean, with that “Dual-Mode” SCAR out there, I figured that would be a no brainer! I didn’t think H&K had a chance. :-/
I wonder if it (being an upper receiver assembly) was simply far and away the cheapest?
A closed-bolt design? I remember discussing this competition not too long ago with one of my friends, and we both agreed that the H&K entry would use for that reason.
I hope you get those specs. Ever since the competition started, I’ve been searching in vain for images of, and information on, the H&K IAR.
If this isn’t the stupidest idea ever. The whole IAR concept is just a joke. Talk about a gross reduction in firepower. The only soldier who will have an IAR is the automatic rifleman. First they take away their M-60s, now their M-249s, to only be left with a souped-up rifle. It would be different if all the squad members were equipped with the IAR, but they won’t. The whole thing has me baffled.
Personally, I wonder if they’re trying to sneak in a new service rifle to eventually replace the M16 the Marines are issuing now. Even with a gas piston and heavy barrel, the capabilities of an HK416 simply aren’t that dissimilar from the capabilities of the M4/M16.
Personally, I don’t think a poorer choice could be made by the USMC. This is literally an M-4 Carbine with a piston system. That’s supposed to replace the M249 as a Squad Automatic Weapon? Apparently, it does not have a Heavy barrel, no interchangeable barrel, no heat sink, no open-bolt operation, shorter than standard-length barrel, no drum, no 40 round mag, no belt. OH! But, it’s lighter than the standard rifle. What exactly are the benefits? Why not just drop the Three Round Burst from the M-16A4 and save the taxpayers that many millions of precious dollars?
The entire IAR competition was apparently a big JOKE. They should have gone with the Ultimax-100 Mk.4 or the Colt’s IAR.
Colt didn’t win?! Im happy for that actually, Colt won’t take things for granted anymore.
BTW, about the weight…
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=42470#7
“Basically, the 416 as-is was capable of maintaining the IAR sustained rate of fire without cooking off, and was able to achieve the requested service life without needing a heavier barrel, etc.”
Very strange!
It seems like the open bolt feature would be valuable in this role.
Maybe a way to get 416s into the marine inventory so they can get more later?
2 steps ahead 3 steps back, good old marines. So now they aren’t even compatible with what the Army uses(SCAR), did they do that on spite?
The best and combat proven Squad Weapon without a belt feed in the peashooting 5.56mm round is by far the Ultimax 100. They were not even tested.
Do these guys have a clue? Do they even have a reliable high capacity magazine yet? What good is it if they don’t? The beta C magazine is not reliable enough in adverse conditions. They will be forced to use the 30 round mags in combat totally negating the whole idea of a Squad auto. So now let’s spend 100 million dollars on finding a high capacity drum magazine, oh guess what the Ultimax already has one that was designed by the guy who did the original Beta C and it works better.
The follies continue, is it that hard to equip an infantry unit? With all the off the shelf stuff already out there you would think they could do it. Did they even try the POF or LWRC designs?
At least the Marines are smart enough to have adapted the M-32 and brough back an improved LAW. The Army is far behind them with adapting quality infantry weapons.
Is this just a backdoor way by the Marines to replace the M16 with the HK416 because I don’t get the logic behind using the HK416 as a light machine gun when there are way better options for that role (like the Ultimax 100).
This can’t possibly be right. Unless the gun can shoot from an open bolt AND has a quick-change barrel how can it replace the SAW? Sustained fire rates without those features are severely restricted!
Or maybe not:
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2009/12/03/usmc-iar-update-hk-is-not-a-lock/
Im very to hear this today. The well proven M-16 design wins again. It has a piston which is the onlu real differnce with the Colt models. I bet Colt wont mourn too much. The Army has annouced its M-4A2 program a few weeks ago and Colt is going for that. Im just happy American dsign won.
As for Rex
The SCAR has alot of real problums. Just read some of threads here. And since infantrymen wanted somthing with many the same parts as there M-16A4s they chose a weapon useing 85% of same parts.
I think the reason the Corps chose the M-416 over the Colt Automatic Rifle was its piston system is much cooler in tempature when fire on prolonged automatic fire. With its heavy barrel and piston system the gun can be fired longer on automatic than its competitors.
Agree Steve?
Marine Times has updated the article, and has pulled back from claiming an outright win. It is now titled “H&K is frontrunner in IAR competition.”
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/12/marine_IAR_update_120309w/
I thought the upper wouldn’t fit on standard lowers, or is that just for us lowly civilians?
Am I the only one that thinks the 416′s freakin’ ugly too?
I guess they thought that without the hi-cap magazine, all the IAR could ever hope to be was a beefed up assault rifle, so they went ahead with the most economical (mounts on existing M4 lowers) and well-proven (H&K probably has had time to iron out some of the bugs reported to them by the early adaptors of the 416 which includes not only certain American units, but also the armed forces of Norway and Turkey, while only a select few people have firsthand experience with the new Colt piston gun) alternative. And even if the IAR concept as it is turns out to be a dud, these guns can still be repurposed as a “normal” assault rifle, perhaps given to the brawnier guys in the unit who don’t mind lugging around a few ounces of extra barrel weight.
Lastly, it might also be a backdoor for evaluating the 416 system (or a piston AR in general) as a possible future replacement of the M4, especially when compared to the FN SCAR.
Vitor, sure they will! Colt will be given something else sometime in the future!
Big, yep, the Ultimax is a pretty neat weapon. I think it was disqualified for weight. It is a true magazine gun, albeit a mag fed gun, but the marines seem to want low weight.
If they are so obsessed with weight, why not switch t M4 carbine and dump their heavy M16A4s?
Lance, its just HK416. Once it is adopted it will get a military designation Mxxx, XMxxx or Mk. xxx. The Colt had a big (and heavy) heatsink as well as a open bolt fire mode, which would deal with heat.
Matt needs to run for Congress and get a seat on a Defense Appropriations sub-committee ASAP.
I was more than a little iffy on the whole IAR thing from the beginning but this has just turned into a monumental boondoggle. What’s going on with the Corps? They have historically been the service branch that does the mostest with the leastest.
The H&K 416 is not really a M-4 or a M-16 replacemnt. More of a upgrade! The Marines already said there is NO repeat NO to any plan to replace the M-16A4. The A4 will be in for alot longer. The idea of a IAR is to give marines a chance to have a more accurate fire than a SAW and more relighable ifre power on full auto than a M-16.
I think alot of people are reading to far in to this. The IAR is not a replacement for rilfe and carbines. its just to fill in a stop gap between assault rilfes and LMGs the Corps wanted to replace.
I also dont think the H&K 416 is being backed doored into replace standerd M-16. The 416 dsont have a longer barrel and long range accuracy like the M-16A2 and A4 dose. It was picked to due its lighter weight to the Colt modles.
Remember the Army just a few weeks ago announced its plan for a M-4A2 that uses a piston.
In any case some who seculated the piece of junk SCAR will be used outside of SOCOM are wrong too since the FN entree to the program failed. In any case im glad a AR platform is adopted to use for this role.
Dan
I read the article and it says the H&K did win the compation.
@ Lance
H&K is a German manufacturer.
@ Steve
The G36 was not horribly unsuccessful. Germany, Latvia, Lithuania, Mexico, Montenegro, Norway, Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Portugal, and several police departments use it.
As for the HK416, it isn’t really revolutionary but the piston operation is a lot cooler than you might think. I also think it has a higher rate of fire but I can’t confirm that. Also, wouldn’t a closed bolt accumulate less dust, especially firing from a bipod in the dusty hills of Afghanistan. Smaller magazines would probably reduce actual rate of fire, forcing the gunner to slow down and aim instead of spraying. Small mags are easy to fix once high capacity magazines are developed. Increased parts commonality would simplify logistics and if the gunner ran out of ammo in his hi-cap mags, he could still continue to lay down automatic fire.
Komrad, not the G36, the MG36. The MG36 was just a G36 with heavy barrel and a 100 round drum magazine.
I know H&K is a German company but it has a AMerican brach which is independent from HK Germany. The design is American and is not a regergatated FNC like the FN IAR which thankfully lost BIG TIME! If Germany pulls HK from the States Colt or Sabre could make parts and new piston ARs for the service.
Hay Steve
WHat do you think about the coincidence that 2-3 weeks fter the Army announces a M-4A2 that uses a Piston to be the next small arms project for the Army. That the Corps now announces that a piston M-16 wins there IAR compation.
While I think M-16s and M-4s are here fore a while I think the Military is makeing its intention to tell people what there next generation of light weapons will be several years from now.
The hope of some that Euro guns will finally kill of the Stoner systems are wrong and the American design will stay american for at least untill the 2020s.
Ohh And Spain, Mexico, and the Pilliapines all use M-16s NOT G-36s.
Do you hear that?……… The H&K fanboys are rumbling torwards us!
It’s just another reason for the H&K guys to say they hate us.
The brazilian federal police uses the G36, they love it.
“Ohh And Spain, Mexico, and the Pilliapines all use M-16s NOT G-36s.”
Partially correct as usual. I can’t vouch for two of those countries but Spain adopted the G-36 for it’s entire military.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/BRIPAC_in_Afghanistan_121569.jpg/800px-BRIPAC_in_Afghanistan_121569.jpg
http://blogs.rtve.es/blogfiles/cuadernosderodaje/IMG_0104.JPG
(Spanish troops in Afghanistan.)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=78920&stc=1&d=1249079990
http://www.aviationcorner.net/public/photos/9/2/avc_00102792.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2h67v4l.jpg
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84133&stc=1&d=1257677259
http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/9/2/1243955357929.jpg
(Spanish Marines)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/G36V_Spain_Navy.jpg/800px-G36V_Spain_Navy.jpg
(Spanish sailor)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Unidad_de_Operaciones_Especiales_in_Search_And_Rescue_exercise.jpg/800px
Unidad_de_Operaciones_Especiales_in_Search_And_Rescue_exercise.jpg
(Spanish SF)
http://www.ejercitodelaire.mde.es/stweb/ea/ficheros/jpg/42A8CEC60785F4D3C12575A200259902T00.jpg
http://www.ejercitodelaire.mde.es/stweb/ea/ficheros/jpg/02FE8CD038B540A8C12575A20036CAB2T00.jpg
(Air Force Paratroopers)
Sorry about the bad link on one of the photos.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Unidad_de_Operaciones_Especiales_in_Search_And_Rescue_exercise.jpg/800pxUnidad_de_Operaciones_Especiales_in_Search_And_Rescue_exercise.jpg
Dammit! I must be using a DI keyboard.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Unidad_de_Operaciones_Especiales_in_Search_And_Rescue_exercise.jpg
The Army tried to adpot the G-36 via XM-8 program it died in its testing stage.
hay BIG Lester
You said the Army uses the SCAR. Thats not true only units attached to SOCOM can get those weapons. And the Army has announced plans to get a piston M-4 ie M-4A2. With recent complants about the FN and it loseing BIG time to H&Ks IAR today, I doubt it’ll go much futher than SOCOM.
Sorr I ment BIG Daddy not Lester…. Sorry Lester. I think Steve sould be in Congress.
His poloicy on crime… A AR-15 for every one!
The weird thing is that the HK416 IAR is roughly the same weight as the M16A4, if not lighter when the latter is fitted with the M5 ARS. I’m certain that someone in Congress will ultimately ask what the HK416 can do that their issue M16A4 retrofitted with full-auto trigger groups can’t.
Like others have mentioned, I can’t help but wonder if the USMC didn’t game the IAR requirements so that a basic carbine could win instead of a HBAR. The idea would be to gradually increase the number of IAR issued so that they could later justify standardizing on it to replace not just the infantry squad’s M249, but their M16A4 and M4 as well. By framing it as a service-specific supplement to their M249, they skirted the need to argue with the other service branches over a set of joint requirements.
As for winning the contract, everyone needs to remember that Colt, FN, and HK were already awarded Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity contracts for their IAR last year. An IDIQ contract guarantees the awardee that they will have a specific minimum of items ordered, with the possibility of additional orders up to a specific maximum. There is no guarantee that more than the stated minimum will ever be ordered. I’ve long suspected that contracting officers have been purposefully making multiple awards of IDIQ contracts prior to a final downselect in order to head off potential award protests by the disgruntled losers. It is my understanding that by accepting their IDIQ award, the contractor only has grounds to protest if the guaranteed minimum has not ordered before the end of the contract. They cannot protest that they did not receive additional orders in excess of the guaranteed minimum.
How is this supposed to be a replacement for a SAW? A saw is a light machine gun. Am I missing something?
Sapin dose use the G-36 sorry. But Mexico and the Pillipines use M-16A1s still.
The USMC is not replaceing the M-16A4! On a article a month ago one the the head marksmanship instructors at Marine base at Quantico said the Corps is commited to the M-16A4 and will not replace it for another decade. The IAR is to partily replace the failed SAW which has numerous problums.
I asked Steve about this and I hope to see what he thinks. The Corps are just not dumping the M-16A4 It simply wants a stopgap between A M-16 and a M-249 For long accurate auto-fire something the SAW cant due. This weapon is only ade for Copes units in Afghanistain NOT to replace MG in a more coventional war.
Maybe one bit of good news that will come out of this is Heckler and Koch will probably have to manufacture the HK416 here in the US to fill this order. So if you’re lusting after a HK416 you might be able to get a semi-auto HK416 instead of the MR556.
Perhaps the Marines were looking for a weapon that fills the role that the submachinegun played in conflicts such as WWII? It would make more sense for them to “supplement” their M249s with a weapon designed for close in automatic fire. The 416 is lighter and more compact than an M249, and much better suited to snap shooting. It would definitely be easier to clear a building using such an auto-rifle.
The M249 is still useful for its sustained automatic fire capabilities; the IAR is used for situations where automatic functionality is useful, but the M249 is too clunky. In my admittedly armchair analysis, it seems like this is an outgrowth of the Marine’s experience in urban combat.
My recollection is that the IAR is supposed to be an intermediate between, say, the ‘standard’ M4A1 (USMC version anyway) and the M249, depending on the individual unit’s deemed needs in terms of firepower, there is no across-the-board M249 replacement.
I saw Rangers with SCARs so they are in the army right, so the army uses scars. It doesn’t matter if they are attached to my leg, they have SCARs. I don’t see Seals or Marines with them or any Air Force personnel from SOCOM. So technically you are correct FN won a SOCOM contract for the SCAR and the 75th Ranger’s have them, the Army’s 75th Ranger battalion.
Anyway what it does mean is that nobody at the DOD knows what they are doing because nobody who procures these weapons was ever in any combat and never had to use these weapons. They have no clue what they are doing they all work in committees and from long drawn out papers that nobody but a group of lawyers can understand. Same as any other government agency and that’s why nothing gets done in the good old USA. It would be nice if the Army worked together with the Marines and listened to the Marines who have much better knowledge about how to arm their infantry.
It seems like everybody is fiddling around trying to figure out how to just say the words; “We need a better weapon than the M-4/M-16 family of gas impingement weapons”……..too bad they won’t admit the 5.56mm round sucks too.
What gets me is that they didn’t even really test the Ultimax 100. I guess they were afraid it might actually work and fill this convoluted need.
Lance,
What’s your problem? Someone points out to you that what you’re saying is wrong and you attempt to fabricate absurd responses. First it was painting me as some kind of FN fanboy in general and now I’ve supposedly said the SCAR is used Army-wide. Both are wrong. If you don’t like facts and feel a need to lamely attack someone with falsehoods, better head back to your XBox. You’re portraying yourself in a very poor light.
It replaces the SAW in MOUT ops, where the SAW is a) too unweildy to do room clearing, and b) gives an external indication as to who is the automatic rifleman is in the squad, thus drawing more fire to said Marine.
This rifle supplements the SAW in the unit TO&E, not replaces it. It allows the unit to adjust it’s armament to fit the mission.
However, the choice of the 416 gives me pause. The word on the street I have seen is that the rifle hasn’t been particularly mechanically reliable. It breaks parts a lot.
Bill and Lance, just end the argument. Enough is enough. Just agree to disagree.
Lance, the only reason I mentioned the SCAR is the automatic open/closed bolt switch…the HK entry is closed bolt only, which seems foolish to me on a rifle that should (at least the way I read the IAR is going to be used) have a pretty high sustained rate of fire. So why would a “heavy barrel HK416″ beat out two other entries that had, you know, an open bolt mode.
I’ve no great love for the SCAR, but it doesn’t seem like HK did anything special to the 416 to “IARize” it… But since we don’t have any pictures or information or anything on the *actual* HK entry, just speculation, I guess it’s hard to judge.
Sounds like it could be a logistics and/or weight issue. With the 416/IAR everyone can use stanag magazines, ie no belted 5.56 needed. And the IAR guy can keep up better with the group.
Any ideas on how the selection process really works here? I am a military contractor and if my experience tells me anything, it is that it will be a committee full of people with different agendas, which may or may not coincide with the stated agenda of the committee. And you know what they say…If you drew up a committee to select a horse for you, you would end up with a camel.
Thus, the the frontrunner is a design that is an automatic rifle in the same way my John Deere is a highway vehicle.