Kel-Tec PMR-30 pistol
Kel-Tech have developed a new pistol which chambers the .22 Magnum (WMR) rimfire cartridge. The small size of the .22 WMR has allowed Kel-Tec to squeeze 30 rounds into the double-stacked magazine (a new original design), yet maintain a comfortable grip size.
The PMR-30 has a unique hybrid blow back / locked breech recoil system. In order to accommodate a wide range of ammunition, the pistol automatically adjusts between locked breach and blowback based on internal pressure. I look forward to seeing how this system works.
One problem with the .22 Magnum is that because it was designed as a rifle cartridge, the powder load is slow burning. This maintains high pressure in the barrel for a longer period of time. This high pressure can prevent extraction during recoil because the gas pushes out against the brass and presses it into the chamber wall. Shooting Log report that the PMR-30 has a fluted chamber to prevent this type of extraction problem. The gas enters the flutes and counterbalances the pressure against the case wall and also acts as a lubricant.1
The PM-30's frame is aluminum. The slide and barrel are steel. Interestingly, the barrel is fluted.
Regarding the .22 Magnum performance compared to the FN 5.7x28mm round, read this article.
| Specifications | |
|---|---|
| Caliber | .22 Magnum (.22WMR) |
| Barrel length | 4.3" |
| Slide and Barrel | 4140 Steel |
| Frame | 7075 Aluminum |
| Magazine capacity | 30 rounds |
| Trigger pull | 3.5 to 5 lbs |
| Weight (no mag) | 13.6 oz. |
| Length | 7.9" |
| Height | 5.8" |
| Grip Width | 1.1" |
| Muzzle Velocity (40 gr) | 1230 fps |
| Expected Availability | Quarter 2, 2010 |
| MSRP (Price) | $415 |
Oleg Volk has taken some photos of the pistol...
UPDATE: Bill pointed out that the Grendel P30, which was manufactured in the early 90s, was designed by George Kellgren, the founder and chief designer at Kel-Tec. I suppose the PMR-30 is an improved P-30.
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I stand open to correction on this point. ↩
Steve,
This isn’t a first. George Kellgren, founder and chief designer of Kel-Tec, had the P-30 under his first company’s name, Grendel. It was also a 30 round .22 WMR.
http://jtjersey.com/Grendel/GrendelP30.jpg
Bill, thanks. have updated the blog. I knew about the P30, but not about the connection with Kel-Tec.
Why not 22lr? I’d buy a 22LR pistol that held 30 rounds and looks like this but 22mag is expensive enough that I find myself asking the question why now just shoot 9mm.
As jazzed as I am about this offering from Kel-Tec I think I would be even more jazzed if it was offered in .22LR instead. The simple economics of .22 WMR make it just as expensive (if not more expensive) than shooting 9mm. That said, I will probably buy one anyway when it launches because it looks cool and any flavor of .22 is my absolute all time favorite caliber.
Where are the fasion police when you need them?
30 rounds, most 22 mags come in 50 round boxes, so you’d have to buy 3 boxes to have 5 reloads with nothing left over. heh
I wouldn’t be surprised if a .22lr is coming out later. Why not? They bullets are almost the exact same size. I also read this in wikipedia.
” A .22 WMR round will not fit into the chamber of a .22 LR firearm but is possible to chamber and fire .22 LR rounds in a .22 WMR firearm”
So maybe their dual compatible?
Now saying that THIS IS GREAT! 30 rounds! WOW, Kel tec is always coming up with some crazy new and useful thing. I guess those oldies with arthritis have just found their new pistol.
I agree with Jesse that a .22lr version would probably have a much bigger market than the 22wmr.
I suspect the 22lr is more difficult to double stack in greater numbers though…
The screwed together frame (which looks like plastic i my eyes…) looks kind of cheap to me. But I suppose these savings are reflected in the price.
Look what I found. Apparently the Grendel P-30 came in an 8 inch barrel version as well as forearm and buttstock! Awesome!
http://www.gunandgame.com/gallery/files/1/8/4/0/2/r-31.jpg
Also the magazines for this pistol were zytel.
Totally agreeing with Jesse here. I’d sell my Neos and buy one of those in a hot second if it were .22LR.
Why not just shoot 9mm? because you can’t fit 30 rounds of 9mm in a flush fit magazine. Plus some people may have a problem with the high recoil of shooting 9mm.
The PMR-30 does not have fluted chamber as mentioned in the blog post (that is never mentioned in the press release…just fluted barrel).
The old Grendel P-30 does have a fluted chamber.
wonder if there will be a way to run a can on this, muzzle extension by tornado anyone?
The PMR-30 does NOT have a fluted chamber.
@ Jesse:
Why not a .177 cal pellet gun? If You don’t care about muzzle energy, and cost is a primary concern, then a pellet gun is the way to go. Except most 9mm ammo costs twice as much as .22 WMR.
Jesse, 22LR would be nice as well. I think the draw of this gun is a high-capacity magazine in something that is more powerful than 22LR. I agree that the ammo cost is going to be a big deterent to popularity. Some people might like shooting 22WMR over 9mm for the lower recoil as well.
Will keltec ever be able to make a gun that looks nice? yes, I know that looks has nothing to do with functionality, but my goodness their guns look cheap-ass (I’ve carried a P-11 [first-gen], P32, and PF9 so I ain’t bashing the quality)
What’s wrong with having purely a fun gun with more OOMPH! than a .22LR? I had the opportunity to shoot the old AMT .22 Mag years ago and it was a blast with 1/3 the capacity of the new K-T.* Twenty-two magnum revolvers are also a lot of fun but I hated the slow loading/unloading of my old Ruger Single-Six so chambered. Accuracy will probably be improved in a dedicated WMR barrel. (The Rugers are optimized for the slightly smaller .22LR’s bullet diameter.) Water-filled milk jugs are in great peril at 100 yards with this cartridge.
The PMR-30 can also serve more “useful” purposes. Since it will weigh significantly less fully loaded than an empty Ruger Single-Six Convertible**, this new K-T would be a handy trail or fishing companion for popping tin cans, snapping turtles, etc. The extra power of the Magnum would be comforting if you came across a rabid raccoon. Farmers and ranchers will appreciate the ballistics and capacity as they come across coyotes, prairie dogs, or other annoying pests. If it proves to be reliable, this could also be a good addition to someone’s GHB. FMJ’s don’t destroy much meat on a squirrel, JHP’s can do surprisingly well in ballistic gelatin for anti-personnel use. And you can carry a lot of ammo for little weight.
If this pistol has a street price in the $325-350 range, I’ll probably buy one.
*That is when the AMT wasn’t jamming.
**I just weighed five rounds of Winchester 40-gr. JHP’s. The average was 66.8 grains. 66.8 x 30 = 2004 grains or ~1/3 lb. for ammo. The PMR-30 weighs about 14 oz. with an empty magazine. The lightest Single-Six Magnum weighs 32 oz. empty.
I guess I shouldn’t have said there’s no reason for 22mag. If you are hunting small game 30 rounds of 22mag is amazing and if for some reason you are unable to handle anything stronger having 30 rounds of 22mag would be better than the 6 you’d get in a revolver. However the self defense applications are still limited to a very niche market which leaves me thinking the primary application for this gun is a trail gun. I don’t really need a trail gun.
All that being said if this is priced cheap enough there is a part of me that might get one for the kitche factor but it’s a low priority below a few other guns I’d rather get. However if they made it on 22LR it’d be on the top of my list so I could fill those mags over and over at a cost of $15 for 550 rounds.
I don’t know why everyone is complaining about the looks, I think it’s one of the best looking rimfire pistols to date! Kind of like a Five-seven mixed with an H&K Mk. 23. I think its sleek and trendy looks will sell well to those on a budget in the modern ‘tactical’ market. Let’s just hope it feeds well.
I gotta be honest, I thought this was a Five Seven mock up made out of Legos.
I wonder if this means we’ll also see a new version of the Grendel R31 carbine? In any event, I’ve been intrigued by these guns for some time as I’m unaware of another .22WMR design -pistol or rifle- that offers anything like the magazine capacity of the Grendel P30/R31, or the new Kel-Tec PMR-30. Of course there’ll always be those who wonder why anyone would shoot a hi-cap gun in this chambering, but personal experience suggests it’s always possible to find a happy niche for anything legal!
Jim should get some kind of award for Post of the Week! Very funny!
Actually, that was speculation on the fluted chamber based off of the Grendel.
We have since found out that the PMR-30 uses a unique hybrid locking/blowback system to handle the problems brought by the high pressure of the .22WMR
That’s actually pretty interesting little piece. I’d consider one to carry as a dispatch weapon for when I am out predator hunting. It like the idea of not running out of rounds quickly.
Why?
Why not continue the trend of pocket guns? Why not build a 22 mag/22lr the same size as a p-11 or p3at while attempting to maximize magazine capacity in this way?
Everyone on here is right. If it looks like a target 22, and its built like a target 22, and if it has this excellent capacity and long barrel then it should ideally be built in 22 long rifle or not at all. Why? Because I assume most can’t afford to shoot 22 magnum all day at the range like we do the affordable 22LR cartridge. Aside from that, I think that the person who said that this would make a great trail gun had it right. If this were small enough to carry I would be all over it like a dog in heat.
This is just me, but if i were building a gun with this excellent capacity it would be for concealed carry. It would be the size of the P-11 or smaller. It would come with two barrels of different lengths. Maybe even different calibers. One barrel for compact carry and the other for target practice. Most pocket 22s out there have a very small capacity. I think this technology should be brought to the pocket realm.
I think I’d like the P-30 more if it was a .22 LR instead of a .22 WMR, partly for the ammo cost (about 75% savings), and partly for the reduced noise and muzzle blast. The .22 Winchester Magnum RIFLE ammo is made for rifles. The slower powder is largely wasted in a pistol, unless people want the hassle and expense of pulling bullets and developing loads optimized for a pistol. There is plenty of pistol .22 LR ammo already. Still, I think a .22 WMR pistol with 30 rounds is fairly awesome, even though I think the performance wouldn’t be all that much better than .22 LR, as demonstrated by the NAA Mini-Master with a 4″ barrel.
.22 LR 40 gr 900-930 fps:
http://www.naaminis.com/mmlrvel.html
.22 WMR 40 gr 1050-1100 fps
http://www.naaminis.com/mmmagvel.html
It’s more difficult to design a .22LR double stack magazine, but I think Kel-Tec is going to work on it.
I was a bit disappointed by the errors in the original post, which claimed it was the first 30 round .22 WMR pistol when George Kellgren had already done it in the P-30 many years ago, and then claiming the PMR-30 had a fluted chamber when it was the P-30 that had the fluted chamber. It looks like the autor would have either heard of the P-30, or not.
George Kellgren Is the founder of KelTec, he also Partnered in Intratec, (Formerly Intradynamic USA.) and Grendel, The PMR-30 is just a P-30 with an aluminum frame.
Yes, the PMR-30 is just like the P-30, except for the fact that it’s completely different in every single way except the caliber and the magazine capacity.
I know it isn’t supposed to be released until the 2nd quarter of 2010, but when it becomes available I’d sure appreciate a heads up from anyone who sees it on the market. I want to get one of these to carry as a dispatch pistol when I am predator hunting.
WOW!!!! Is this still the good ole US of A???? first of all 9mm is double yhe price of 22MAG. This caliber is very effective spitting out at around 2,000ft/sec muzzle. The rail is most useful and if I can carry 30 hand selected rounds of my favorite 22MAG, this is my…..oh yeah, and my wife’s gun too. I have around 14,000 rounds of 22LR ammo in stock. I am buying 22MAG cheaper by the day…..good stuff going for about $9.00/50 I am a dealer but my customers already want this as I will sell my first few and then keep ours. Great weapon………mix it with a S&W500 if you are up North and don’t need to waste ammo and game!
I personally cannot wait for the PMR03 to arrive. In the first few months many will be optimizing fast burn relaods for this pistol and in a very short time this pistol will be a match contender for FN57 pistols. I own a 57 and am completely satisfied with it. It to has a 30 rd mag capacity(upgraded by ProMag) ofcourse. It is very laser like accuracy to the point of predicable bordom. I would expect this PMR30 to become just as good after a few months of tweaking with bullet weight and powder load. Unfortunately, the unique multi function bolt/ breach design may hinder the potential optimized performance. I will keep my fingers crossed in hopes of a tweaked up pistolafied .22WMR(P) that comes very close to the 5.7×28mm velocity and FtLbs delivered.
Oh and one more thing, Hey Kel-Tec if your reading this, make regular dove-tail rails for the sights with sight options. I personally would like some Trijicon sights for mine.
Funny, someone tried to link one of my old gallery pics
Yep, the P-30/P-31 are completely different, more of a Buck Rodgers look
I’m WAITING with a big grin for these to come out…I actually sent Keltec an email about a .22WMR possibility last year but they never responded…now I know why
Definitely going to be first in line to get one, and then test it side-by-side with my P-30 & P-31’s
If KelTec does as well on the PMR-30 as Grendel made theirs…I’ll be their biggest cheerleader EVER on a TON of gun boards
Keltec has put excellent value for money weapons in many American hands, and I thank them. The first Keltec I held Bit my finger open because I have large hands and I almost wrote them off…. Then I saw a guy shooting a PLR – 16, Shot one, Got one, never looked back. Quality and function are excellent! Thank you KelTec. I had a automag in 22 wmr and loved it, but it was a “stove piper”. I have been looking for a good 22wmr Auto pistol since and have already called my dealer to see when I can get one of these.
People need to actually SHOOT a 22wmr with some of the modern loads before comparing it to a 22LR. The barrel on the PMR-30 is minimal length to start getting the potential of the WMR round. Like a previous poster said, once the manufacturers start tweaking powder burn rates for the pistol length barrel and people the shooting public find out how great a deal this is…. You’ll be standing in line. Order now.
And the California version will be available –
Sorry, that’s politics.
maybe when I visit Las Vegas I’ll get a chance to try one out at a range.
@#$%^&*! California politicians.
So has anyone heard when this pistol will actually become available?
Just decided that this will be my new SHTF gun for my wife along side my FN57 in my everything goes to hell pack. SHould be very reliable and very easy to get ammo for. Hell, most all .22WMR is cheap by relative standards these days, and still no shortage. Unlike .45, .38, 9mm, 5.7×28 and .223,.. etc… **(ammoengine.com)**. I’ll be selling my 1964 Baretta Model 75 6″ target 22LR with 2 mags to get this new mini whopper. It’s in 99% Excellent condition. (stewart.perthou@yahoo.com) The PMR should be tons of excellent shooting fun and it just needs to have tweaked Pistolized fast powder loads for this thing with more of a pointed lead nose half jacket and steel core. And if your one of those folks that thinks a .22 is a mostly a joke to take the kids shooting with, do think of the fact that like my tiney FN57 pistol, it will penetrate 48 layers of kevlar and I have 31 rounds whith which to do it, vs. a .45 with 8 or 10 rds which are only likely to crack a rib at best. I do love my .45 and is is accurate to the point of boredom (the only reason why I keep it) but it is old tech, and limited to the amount of service it can provide me. It is far to heavy to carry, and most certainly would obliterate small to medium game. Again the FN57 is very similar in size to the 1911 but far lighter even loaded. Now for comparison, the PMR is even yet Smaller and lighter but with some punch. A perfect combination. A must have for a mulitiude of purposes.
Just found this posted by Caleb.
“One of the best rounds for .22 magnum from a pistol is the CCI TNT 30 grain load. It uses a faster burning powder and generally acts like a “quality” pistol bullet when fired from a pistol.”
Looks like i’ll have to put off buying a Glock Gen4.A 30 shot 22 mag has got to come first.I’ll team it up with my PLR16 loaded with M855s.For the 22 mag i’ll try Hornady 30gr VMAX.Now all they have to do is make the economical version for 22lr.Got to find one of these pistols fast! Jim
Their PMR-30 handout lists it as being available in the 2nd quarter of this year.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/PMR30-handout-v3-31.pdf
This is an excellent self defense handgun for people who are recoil sensitive and handicapped folks. Obviously its not the ideal self defense caliber but some people simply cannot handle the recoil of larger calibers and the 22 Magnum ammo isnt that expensive. As a police officer I would love to have a subcompact in 22 magnum for a get off of me type gun and Personally I think the 22 mag is better than the 25 and 32 for self defense. Yes I understand the cost of 22 LR ammo is cheaper but there is more to be looked at with this gun.
Old Geezer is right. Honestly, 30 rounds of 22mag versus 7-8 from a compact carry 9mm, hmmm, lemme think, I wouldent want to be on the wrond end of those. See the great equalizer here is capacity, capacity, capacity, and this gun has even more than what is normally considered as high capacity, by about 33%.
(pulled from an earlier post)
One of the best rounds for .22 magnum in a pistol is the CCI TNT 30 grain load. It uses a faster burning powder and generally acts like a “quality” pistol bullet when fired from a pistol.
Havent tried it yet as we dont even have the gun out yet, but the combination already sounds like a good start.
I’d submit that a “recoil sensitive” person is just someone who doesn’t shoot and train enough.
Disability is a fair point though.
Even a recoil (girly man) could shoot a FN57, it kicks no more than a 22WMR
Oops, sorry Greezer, I mis typed you name and missed the “r” in there.
Honestly, 30 rounds of 22mag versus 7-8 from a compact carry 9mm,
A 7-8 shot 9mm is much smaller than this.
this will siut its purpose just fine. It is not a carry weapon, nor is it a home protection gun. It is a darn cool plinker, and for that I’m sure it will do very well. Sitin on your porch, and blowin away pop cans at 50-100 yards, while chattin with your buds is cool! It would also make a great camping gun to go shoot the same way. Right now I use a single 6 shooter in Wmr. This is for when shootin is relaxing and you take your time and enjoy life’s finer bits.
Don’t look now but I smell assault pistol.
22 Magnum is the perfect choice for a 30 round hell-raiser.
I own a model 41 in 22LR and it’s quite tame.
For those watching their dollars, get a BB gun.
I’m looking this one over, but I haven’t seen any performance and reliability reviews. Even the Model 41 doesn’t like dirt and can hang once in a great while, but you can’t spew more than 10 with it anyway.