Taurus Judge Public Defender .410 / .45
Taurus have added a snub nosed revolver to their line of Judge .410 Gauge shotshell / .45 Colt revolvers. The “Public Defender” 4510PD model is build on the smaller Taurus Model 85 frame.
It can only take 2.5″ .410 shells unlike some of the newer Judge models which can chamber 3″ shells. It also features a reduced profile hammer.
Photo from casa-z
Two models are available. A lighter model with a titanium frame (see photo) and a standard model with a blued steel frame.
Specs:
Capacity: 5 rounds
Cartridge: .45 Colt and .410 2.5″ shells.
Sights: fiber optic front sight and fixed rear sights.
Action: SA / DA.
Grip: Taurus Ribber
Cylinder: Steel or Titanium.
RE: Micheals comment on 1/1/12 , wonder where in the heck you live? You have had to draw your weapon twice? Dude I have been carring concealed for close to 30 years now both in NY and SC and have never had to draw my weapon. Maybe it isn’t the gun, maybe it is the guy on the end of it that is broken?
I got a Judge – and what a piece of crap. Or at least mine is – apparently some users have no problems. But I would not place my faith – or life – in mine because it misfires on .410 rounds ALL THE TIME. Doesn’t matter who made the ammo (just bought and tried – and failed to fire the Winchester PDX ammo). Sent it back to Taurus – they ‘corrected’ it – it still misfires because the rim of the shotshell is thinner – and therefore further away – from the firing pin. Over and over again I’ve sent this gun back. And over and over again it misfires. I would love it if it worked – but it doesn’t. Like I said: a piece of crap.
IF you own a Judge – PLEASE! – go out and shoot it. Make sure it will fire .410 rounds. It almost cost me my life – TWICE – because the darned thing misfired. There’s nothing like facing a threat – and then hearing that dry ol’ “click”. Will make your gonads draw up REAL tight. I’ve been cussing that thing ever since I bought it – and the dealer won’t do a ‘trade’ or return. Just “send it to Taurus” all the time. I think this weapon has spent more time in the mail than on the range – that, or sitting in some repair shop.
As for me – well, I’m debating either a) throwing this gun into the trash (after all: it’s nearly gotten me killed two times), or b) modifying the ammo by crimping the rim or adding a washer, or c) modifying the gun so the cylinder sits a little closer to the firing pin. Why I should have to do dangerous modifications to a gun that is both “fixed” and “new” is beyond me – and if I get hurt, I’m suing Taurus. Again.
’nuff said. Hope this weapon works for you. As far as I go: I’m disappointed. And still trying to get that guy’s foot outta my butt from when the gun misfired.
I talked to a couple Handgun Grip manufacturers and the Taurus Judge “PUBLIC DEFENDER” is the one that’s not made on the Tracker Frame. So the Judge aftermarket Grips are not available until sometime next year. “Thankfully”. There are just some things that “GLUE” was not meant for, and “Hand Grips” are not one of them. It’s been a couple weeks now since my Judge has been back from the RMA department with the repair job. So far so good. However, the sticking Hammer on SA or DA I’m starting to find is pretty common on the PUBLIC DEFENDER models. It would be nice if there was a recall on them rather than a wait and see who send them back in scenario. But recalls verses customer returns dictates how much media attention one draws. It’s like the baby stroller and car seat recalls. That affects the bottom line. Taurus has so many different JUDGE models in the market that one will affect the other on a recall of one model. And that’s bad for business, if your in a business were failure is not accepted in the slightest degree no matter what the intention. Come to think of it, how many firearms manufactures have ever had a recall. I don’t know that answer, but given the nature of the business, admitting failure has a bad Voo Doo hysteria that would follow it. The only thing that would initiate a recall on something that requires any amount of skill and safety would have to hit a certain margin of unbearable repercussions. Like “Fire Stone Tires” would be a good example. I know if I were a business owner or executive of a large company, the weight of responsibility to fair market investment verses profit would be the determining factor on responsibility and forthcoming actions. So don’t blame the GUN, blame the basic concept of media circumventions of the truth as the determining factor of reality behind warranty and acceptability.
I purchased my second Judge, this one the Public Defender Lightweight. I just got a call from my dealer and was told it is ready for me to pick up. This is the “THIRD” time it has been sent back to Taurus to repair some failure in the trigger or hammer spring…so Taurus says. I bought it last August and after about 30 rounds of 45LC and some 410′s the trigger and hammer went limp. Went through the return procedure with dealer…got it back and fired less than 6 rounds through it in about 3 days when the trigger got so stiff it was very hard to fire and also same for tryining to cock the hammer.
I spoke with Taurus about a replacement or refund…no-way. They will just keep fixing it. My dealer also tried the same and got the same answer.
I certainly will not carry it as my concealed carry anymore. Even if they gave me a new one I would not trust it. My confidence in that gun is zip.
Taurus does not care. They are more than willing to let the consumers find the weak links in design and materials.
I guess no one is READING MY POST>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On some of the Judges there is a problem. The Barrel Cone is Defective and needs Timing done on the Chamber.
TAURUS Warranties this problem. Call the up, they send you a FEDEX Label. Box them up and Send them back to the Manufacture. Between FEDEX and the Time I spent on the phone was 5 DAys. They Overnight the Pistol back to you..
Here’s a DEAD GIVEAWAY if you have the Problem. Ist, UNLOAD THE WEAPON>>>>> I can’t stress this enough.. Then RAPID FIRE 10-15 times. if the Hammer sticks in anyway, you have a defective Barrel cone.
sorry about that guys…… Just trying to get the message out……..
When I got mine back from the Factory, My Judge is now smoother than my Glock and SIG… and my Glock and Sig are Hopped Up with all the 3.0 – 2.5 lb triggers and Polished Ramps.
Best thing I ever did with that Judge was spend a little times mailing it back. I dono, but I’ve never heard of a Ported and Polished Revolver, but Mine is SWEET>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I own a judge and I’m also a small arms trainer.
What I’ve found with the judge is that at close range it’s lethal as any other magnum round. The 410 rounds and 45LC are hard on the wrist after 60 or 70 rounds. It’s extremely accurate. Light weight, cheap enough and it carries a life time warranty of the fire arm. Doesn’t matter who owns it. It will get fix and sent back if you have a problem. I’m strictly a sig Sauer fan and own multiple firearms. In the event that something happened where I’d need one, and I’ve been in that position twice in my civilian life, I would prefer the Judge Public Defender at close Range. I fire over three hundred rounds out of one of the ones I own. It went NON-Stop. Keep in mind it got VERY HOT, and shot shells will melt or stove pipe under those conditions. But most people won’t experience a fire fight with a burger that last 20 plus minutes and multiple reloads. The bottom line is, if some one decided to enter my house without my permission and intended to do harm to my family, I would grab the judge before I grabbed my sig or Glock. As far as cost goes and the willingness to protect your life at all cost. Hands down the Judge is a Man stopper at close range. One squeeze and the problem is gone, or trying like heck to get away from the canon. On the flip side if I were in a situation where accuracy and distance were the issues, I’d grab my Sig 239 or Glock 27 any day. In a pistol to pistol fight I’d use my Sig or Glock. In a fire fight or defensive line I’d use my shotgun or AR15. But if I were someone with no combat experience defending my property and my families life, the judge is the winne at close range in a home. Keep in mind that the average at 90% of all home invasions or Car Jacking your going to be at least 3 – 7 feet away. That’s we’re the 4 fundementals and natural point of aim come In from all your practice fires. However if your one of those guys or gals that never go to the range, the Judge works well. As far as wrist pain goes, in the heat of a fire fight or defensive posture, NO-ONE with no exception ever remembers squeezing the trigger and feeling a inkling of pain.
Has anyone had a chance to shoot all the models of the judge and compare them……particularly the poly framed 2.5in barrel versus the 3in ported barrel?
I am just trying to figure out if the ported barrel really is any better than the stock 3 in barrel non-ported. Also does the poly frame kick harder due to the lighter weight versus its regular version mate?
To Tom Dawson, I have 7 judges one for each room of my house. 5 of them are ultra lite SS public defenders So far no problems. Have fired them about 50 plus times each so far no problems. They are all loaded with XPD. I am 75 years old and am not into guns except for self defense. I think the Judge is the best weapon there is for my time of life. I have been the recipient of an armed robbery and was shot 3 times. If I had a Judge there would be two blind and maimed criminals.
I bought a Judge Public Defender last October, fired fewer than 25 rounds through it before I experienced trouble. When pulling the trigger, the hammer would stop in a single-action position, requiring a little more pressure on the trigger to fire. I thought that was a nifty design — until the trigger froze with the hammer in single-action position. I finally worked that out, and the next couple of shots went fine. Then it fired BEFORE reaching the single-action position; before I had squeezed the trigger fully. Scary, to say the least. Then the trigger froze to the point I couldn’t pull it. I unloaded the gun, took it back where I bought it, and the shop sent it back to Taurus. In due time, it came back — with the crane bent and the cylinder retention screw threads stripped. The shop sent it back again. I waited almost two months, and when I called the shop to inquire, I was told that Taurus sent an empty box, and that I should call Taurus (why me instead of the shop, but that’s a topic for another blog). I was told by Taurus that the shop’s FFL had expired and they couldn’t ship a gun to them. (This is a national sporting goods chain, not some little one-man shop — I won’t name it, but it rhymes with Rass Row Hop). That got rectified and in due time I received a replacement gun. I went through the FFL paperwork again since the gun had a different serial number. I asked to try dry-firing the gun before I took it, and found the trigger freezing and not being able to make the hammer fall. The gunsmith at the shop tried it, said it was defective, and they would return it to Taurus. Note this gun was not even out of the store before it had to be sent back. I got yet a third gun, asked to dry fire it before we went through the FFL paperwork, and it seemed to work okay. I then went through the FFL paperwork yet a third time (and I still had not fired 25 rounds through a Judge). I went to the range and fired 10-15 rounds, but this gun did not allow the hammer to pause at the single-action position. I tried to pull the hammer to single action with my thumb, and it stuck about one-quarter inch back. The only way to release it was to twist the cylinder back and forth as much as possible. I experienced the same problem about every second or third time — the hammer hanging up when pulled back with my thumb, necessitating wiggling the cylinder back and forth until it releases. Because of the problems with the other returned guns, I am going to see if this will cure itself with use, as the hammer and sear gradually wear in. Needless to say, I am not happy with the Judge. I own several other Taurus revolvers and a 92F in 9 mm, and am generally happy. However, I must say I am much happier with the Colts, Smith & Wessons, and Rugers I own than I am with the Tauruses. My first Taurus was a .357 revolver I bought new about 15 years ago. I hadn’t fired 70 rounds through it before the timing was so far off the firing pin was completely missing the primer. I sent it back, Taurus repaired it and returned it. I started keeping track of every round I put through it to see how many before the timing needed repair again. So far, I’ve put more than 23,000 rounds through it with no problems. If Taurus can fix it correctly, why can’t they make them correctly?
As to the Judge, if use doesn’t fix the problem, I’m going to ask for my money back. It’s been an exasperating experience and I don’t care to go through more of the same.
Let others beware!!!
i have a public defender and the circuit judge . love them both but i’ve had issues with 410 shotshells from 3 differant company’s when fired double action several have snapped single action produces more reliable results.i’m a little worried about the 000 buck loads on the street remember each of those pellets you are resposible for so i’m loading mine with 1 4’6 or 7 1/2 the rest get long colt.at home 000 buck is good. i carry mine in a pancake holster rides well and is very fast drawing .i really need to check into the misfires of the shot shells but i’ll still carry it the 4 45′s will surfice.
I do a lot of target shooting and because before you know it you can burn through a box of 50 rounds. I use the cheep ammo and I have not had any problems with the shells ejecting.
“when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns”
Sgtdaniel, I have two Ultra light public defenders. Winchester XPD, federal and Remington work just fine. A lot of the foreign stuff does not. For self defense XPD is all you need.
Those of you who own and have fired the judge public defender. How is it at cartridge ejection. I have heard some stories of these expanding and getting stuck.
The Winchester 410′s is a load for home defense. At Cheaper Than Dirt the Winchester PDX1 is $18.83 for a box of 20 rounds. I purchased them with my Judge, I am a good shot even at 30 yards, not as accurate as I would like to be, good enough for the situation at hand. I have to laugh at the thought of ok I just unleashed 4 – 410′s in life threating situation at someone or thing. Knowing that i have one shot left and it is a 45 magnum I don’t think that the attacker would still be life threating.
“when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns”
HERE IS A LINK TO THE PDX1 .410 AMMO
http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx
FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVEN’T HEARD ABOUT IT YET, WINCHESTER HAS PUT OUT A 410 ROUND CALLED PDX 1 THAT HAS 3 DISC AND 12 BB SHOT IN IT FOR SELF DEFENSE. IT IS AN AWESOME SHELL AND WOULD STOP PRETTY MUCH ANYONE WITH ONE GOOD SHOT. I HAVE SHOT IT THROUGH BOTH MY PUBLIC DEFENDER AND CIRCUIT JUDGE. YOU CAN BUY THEM IN A COMBO PACK WITH PDX 1 .45 LC FOR AROUND $30.00 AT CABELAS. YOU WON’T BE SORRY WITH THIS SET UP.
Oooops. Sorry about the typo. I meant swab out the chamber. No swamming going on here.
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Also if you have not yet tried the Federal 000 buck round in your Judge yet, I highly recommend it. It is a serious hard hitter. It has a good tight pattern. Here is a YouTube video of me firing my Judge at a full can of Lysol at about 15 feet or so. Not sure of the exact distance. I am using the Federal 000 buck 2.5 inch round. Not a bad pattern. Would have no problem hitting center mass with this round and I am positive it would be a bad guy stopper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=LqwycQpMBpM
I have had my Judge now for about 6 months. I own the ss 2.5″ chamber with the 3″ barrel. The first couple of times I fired it the spent shells were a little hard to remove. After cleaning however, that problem ended. I think it’s because I always swam the inside of the chambers with a little light gun oil after cleaning. I mean very little oil. Just enough to put a very thin film of oil in there. Not wet. Anyway that seemd to solve the sticking issue and does not cause any problems with the gun or shells. Now everything I fire out of it ejects just fine.
I have been looking and unable to find speed loaders for the public defender. I have check several web sites and have no luck. Any information would be great.
Thanks for all the comments. Just wanted to let you know that I really like my Judge. And I wanted to let you know I just got the new one they have out, The “Circuit Judge”. It looks like it is going to be fun to shoot, and really be a conversation piece at the range, LOL. Again thanks for all the post.
I have been looking at this gun for several weeks and finally got it today! It is lightweight and the hand grip is perfect for a woman. Although it is a powerful weapon, it is not intimidating for a woman to carry. Ladies, if you looking for something to carry as personal protection or just enjoy shooting, this is it. My boyfriend enjoyed shooting it as well and agreed with me that this was the perfect handgun for me to have! Great Gun Taurus!
I meant if the 3″ Chambered Judge grip would fit the Defender
I am considering purchasing a Public Defender (Ultra Lite) but I am concerned about the 2 finger grip. Are there any afer market grips for the Defender that are longer. Someone told me that the 3″ Chambered would fit the Defender. Any truth?
By the way, the Judge with game loads is a great tool to have along when the deer aren’t around and a Turkey happens by!!
Jeanette,
By no means were you too wordy. People should know how well the Judge is for shooting for fun as well as personal protection. My wife is 63 years old and a petite 5 feet inches and I can’t keep enough reserve ammo because she shoots it all up. I have had to hide boxes of ammo so it’ll be there when I need it. She also does a great job cleaning the gun. Mine (well was mine, really hers) is a 3inch cylinder with a 3 inch barrel. I have a range down back and even in the snow she’ll be back there. Both she and I find the 3 inch 000 buck to be the most fun. We tried firing off just shots you would expect to make in a frightening and confused situation and just about every time, buck rounds ended up in the targets. The more she shoots it, the better it gets. Don’t let anyone kid you, 2 pulls of the trigger with 3 inch 000 buck loads will put very powerful 6, 36 caliber rounds into a bad guy. And if any nut thinks getting shot with games loads isn’t going to do some damage, they shouldn’t be allowed to have a gun. 2 or 3 pulls from the trigger is going to make for a terrible, most likely lifeless mess. One pull is surely going to cause the reason for pulling the gun out and shooting it, to turn toward another direction–end of aggression!!!
As for some of the other comments made, maybe some folks need to watch the news.Even in Chicago and at one time, Wash. D.C. where having a gun was/is against the law, homeowners who protected themselves against any fear for their life, with a gun, were not charged with shooting the violent attacker. They were charged with having an illegal gun. You will be hard pressed to find, after any police investigation where a person killed a violent intruder into their home because they feared for their life, that charges are filed. And if there are, there are many Law professionals who will come to their aid, FREE.
I am glad to know that when the cops (I was one) are minutes away to serve and to protect, my wife can stop a rape, beating, violent robbery or anything else that may threaten her life, in seconds. Don’t even say “well they could take the gun away, then what?” because I know in my wife’s case, they wouldn’t get close enough. And even if they did, she at least had a better chance than she would have had with just a cell phone.
The judge is NOT a long distance sniper weapon. It is a close range tool for getting out of a very nasty situation. If you are one of those people who need every attachment to a hand gun that man can come up with, just to look cool, the Judge is not for you. If you want something with close range stopping power, the Judge is one you should consider.
Jeanette, My Wife who is 62 says the same thing. In fact I called her and told her about it when I was in a town shopping about 50 miles from where we live. She called me back a few min later and told me to buy it. When I got home she fired it a few times turned around and told me to buy another one. We now own 6. 2 ultra lite PD and 2 SS with 3 inch chambers a 2.5 x4 inch and a ultra lite 2.5×3. We have them scattered about the house so one will always be close at hand. We think it is the best personal close range self defense weapon money can buy. We have both been the victims of robbery and we both have bullet holes in us. We take self defense seriously. The 4” shoots the best. The ultra lite PD is the one she carries on her job. She thinks it is the ideal gun for a woman. It does not require much practice it is hard to miss and it looks big and sounds even bigger.
Interesting Reading! I do like All of the different opinions. This is going to be a females point of view, so be patient.
I first saw “The Judge” at a local police firing range when they first came out a few years ago. Test fired it a few times and had to have one. I was one of the first around my area to get one. I wanted the 6.5″ model for my own reasons. Let me try to keep this short.
I got my “Judge” 6.5″SS model, and took it to my local firing range. It was a little tight, like I seen in some comments, but lossened up just fine.
For home defense, I don’t think you could pick a better revolver. With the .410 shot shells, great for someone kicking in the door or coming in the window. Unfortunely we have had some home invasions in the area lately. But then beinng able to back the shotshells up with .45 colts! Awesome!
And for being able to hit what you aim at, I have not had any problems at the range, and the range master and other shooters can tell you, it shoots rather well. My boyfriend re-loads the .45 colts for me, (I’m learning to reload) because of the rounds I put down range,lol.
I lost my first “Judge” due to a house fire, but have purchased 2 more!
One I use as a home defense revolver, and the other, a 6.5″ SS version is the one I use for hunting. Yep, you heard it right, I use it for short range deer hunting! It shoots very good out to 25 YARDS and even out to 50 YARDS! I shoot 3″ groups @ 25 Yards, and 6″ groups @ 50 Yards. I have Targets to prove it, along with the Range Master at the range.
So this is getting a little long, but if you pratice, it is a very nice revolver, handles well, and really don’t beat me up at the range when I shoot 50 to 100 rounds on a Saturday. Taurus will be getting the first picture when I get my first white tail buck with the Judge. Only problem I have is getting the ‘guys’ to take me hunting anymore, lol.
Sure, I could take a .270, or a .308, but with the Right Ammo, and practice, I will be successful soon.
So women can shoot this pistol, and it really isn’t that hard to handle. By the way, I’m 52, so just about anyone should be able to handle the smaller Revolvers. Hope I didn’t make it to long, But I think “The Judge” is a wonderful all around Revolver!
Diana, your pun is appropriate. But I must say for myself and I am male that being carried by six is a lot more desirable than spending 20 years locked in a small enclosure with tattooed creatures with built in hat racks.
So very true Hicusdicus, although, It is better to be judged {no pun intend} by 12 than carried by 6. I also believe if you draw your weapon and point it at some one in self defense manor a you should be prepared to use it and accept the responsibility. that come with it.
Please Change this forum so one can edit and also reply to a specific comment.
Bucket of truth is like listening to an ole timer rant about carburetors and the good ole days when they made real cars. If you miss the attackers face with a load of # 6 what makes you think you are going to hit it with a bullet. Most civilian gun fights are at 8 feet or less. They are usually akin to a bolt of lightening including flash and noise. A public defender will give you about a 2 foot spread at 10 feet. A load of # 6 in the face will piss off thousands of nerve endings and blind people are not a serious threat particularly if they are experiencing extreme pain. 4 more rounds will definitely do some facial shredding. You will most likely experience some one screaming for Jesus to take him to meet his heavenly father or the other guy. If you want shoot a .45 buy a .45. The judge is a .45 only to keep it legal. The chance of killing an innocent bystander with bird shot is almost non existent. The last thing you want is to do is stand in a court room in front of a judge[ the kind that can really hurt you] and jury with a bunch of drooling lawyers planning vacations with your money. All the guys think they are a dead eye dick. Leave the eye out of the last sentence and think small enclosure full of amateur proctologists all related to Bubba. Taking a life in this country is highly frowned upon and very expensive no matter what the reason. You better have your ducks in a row.
I have the public defender and like the gun. The only mistake I made was buying it without doing a thorough back ground check on the gun. Reason is I would like to be able to cock the gun to shoot and I can’t without a learther glove on and even then it is still hard for me to cock. This is no ones fault but my own but if this is an issue for a person I could not reccommend this particular model. It can be purchased with a regular hammer and that is what I wished I had purchased.
When I told everyone what revolver I wanted they were all shocked. We are a family that believes in the Second Amendment. I was able to hold in my hand and it fit just perfect. Then when I purchased everyone was amazed at the feel and the weight I have the 2.5 in barrel Shooting it is a real pleasure. Having fibromyalgia and years of being a chef, I have weak hands and was able to shoot 35 rounds in one trip to the range and every shot was on the paper {vital areas}.I don’t know if I will wear but do carry in my handbag.
I have a judge and I love it. My wife got it for me because she wanted it for the house instead of my pump 12 gauge that is hard to hide from the kids or lock up in the room. And for those of you who think it kicks to bad my 66 year old grandmother loves to shoot it.
Anyone calling the Taurus Judge or Public Defenders less lethal is less smart. I’ve fired these hand guns and they are impressive. So go stand on the business end of one these and I’ll pull the trigger. Any volunteers? Plus the abilty to pull your trigger 5 times and make 15 9mm size holes across a wide pattern is just a crowd pleaser. Nice to have in backwoods Arkansas after dark. By the way…the biggest baddest most expensive cannon in the world is completely unlethal in the hands of less smart people.
I’m still looking for the right holster. I’m right handed and want a cross draw. Any suggestions??
Thanks, Whit
I just recently purchased a SS Judge. I had the choice between the 3 inch camber with the 3 inch barrel or the 2 -1/2 in. chamber and the 3 in barrel. I purchased the SS model with the 2-1/2 in. chamber and 3 in. barrel as I liked this model better. It was a little shorter in length and I figured that the 2.5 inch round should be pleanty. So far I have fired .45 acp using the steller clip, .410 rifled slug, # 6 bird shot and my now favorite round, the new Federal 000 buck firing 4 coper clad pellets with a 4 inch consistant grouping at 20 feet. The gun is very fun to shoot and works very well for its intended purpose which is SD. I carry this one in the car and use it as my “yard gun” when walking my property especially at night. So far I have had “0″ issues with it jaming or ejecting spent rounds. It was a little tight out of the box but has loosened up and everything works smooth. In my opinion, it does EXACTLY what it was intended to do. I am not looking for a nail driver at 100 yards. If I want that I’ll use my 30-06 springfield. It’s for up-close and personal defense when your woke up in the middle of the night with some crackhead busting in your door or comming through a window. I think a close pattern of 4 pelletes of 000 buck at close range, center mass, would wreck the bad guys day. And if that didn’t stop him another 4 rounds of that stuff can be sent his way in less then a couple of seconds. Hmmm 20 pellets of copper clad 000 buck I think would do the job. I like the idea that for every pull of the trigger, 4 rounds close the the size of a 9mm round, get sent in the bad guys direction.
On another note, I sent Federal an email and asked them if they would develope a non rifled saboted slug for the judge. The said they would pass this idea along to their R&d facility. Who knows, perhaps we will have a reasonably accurate slug round for the Judge befor long.
Take a look at the new Winchester PDX1 made for the Judge. 15 fired at, 21′ = 15 plated cylinders, 60 plated bb’s. Trashed the old chain saw I was dumping (yes legally) If this don’t stop the bad guy move to a better area. I don’t even bother with the .45′s in this gun.
Ummm… actually it’s .410 bore, not “gauge.”
Rick, you are absolutely correct, although in reality most people consider it interchangeable. The British use “bore” for everything, eg. 12 bore.
I’ve fired plenty of guns in the past though never owned one. Now that my fiance and I are stuck living here in the hell hole that is Montgomery, AL, we’ve been trying to narrow down our options pertaining to best all around self-defense guns. I’ve got to say, considering all the arguments I’ve read here, forget that little .38 I was going to buy, I’ll take The Judge “Ultra-Lite” with a 2.5 cyl. and a 3″ barrel in stainless, I think…
AL is an open carry state so concealment size is no real issue and even if I cared, well my kilt makes concealing anything a breeze anyway + I’m a fairly decent quick draw shot in a pinch, so i’ll probably keep just the first chamber loaded with warning pellets and then cap whatever baby gangsta thinks he’s still man enough after that, I suppose. Oh, I’m excited – can’t wait for the next gun show!
the judge was my first gun. I had no problem with the 45 but, the grip was too large. I sold it. Now I have my eye on a Public defender. I loved shooting the Judge, but, I have small hands and it took me too long to get a good grip to shoot.
I have the Tracker, love it. Contraption? I think not. Target shooting, no. Personal defense, you betchum RR.
Little Beaver.
My wife just acquired a ultra light weight public defender. It weights 15 ounces and she has no problem with the recoil. at 10 t0 20 feet its seems to shoot as good as our other 4 judges which is very good. she loads it with the Winchester xpd and she can now carry it comfortably in her coat pocket, She also carries a ruger lcp if not wearing a coat. She also keeps a 3 inch chambered judge in her console. She may not win but the other person will lose.
ps I love the sig saur 556 rifle I highly recomend it
We got them both yesterday
Me and my grandpa just got it and we love it. I am 11 and I can shoot it so if I can shoot it almost any girl can. Exept the prissy ones!!!!!!
I have had my 3X3 mag judge for some time. It seems to work pretty well other than I need to clean it at the end of each day shooting (some thing that should be done with most guns any way)
I have shot about 200 rounds of 45LC through it and about 1000 rounds of various shot rounds. My favroit so far are the Federal 000 hand gun ammo. I just with they had it in the 3 inch
Some of the comments I’ve read here ae assinine. The Judge was designed as a close quarter self defense gun. It is not a target gun, it is not a hunting gun. There are no snakes where I live (except Democrats that want to ban them like Comifornia). Mine is loaded, in my home and very available. Slugs? Why bother when they can fire .45 long colt? I load it only with 5 rounds of 000 buck. Bedroom range. If it was a really serious break in I’d use my Saiga 12 and stuff them into the next county.
It fires AROUND corners?
IMHO the Tauras Judge is a near perfect home defense weapon. Here’s my reasoning.
1. As a handgun it is easily kept in a place where you can get to it quickly.
2. Unlike a shotgun it is not unwieldy indoors thus it is easy to use in close quarters
3. A 410 with small buckshot or better yet birdshot has limited penetration which limits the potential for collateral damage.
4. In a panic situation you don’t need to be terribly accurate, just point in the general direction and pull the trigger.
5. The recoil is less than the other big caliber’s
6. It makes lots of noise which acts as a deterrent
7. you can shoot around corners.
Here’s a scenario: The first two chambers have 410 shells. This enables the home defender to take a quick “panic” shot likely to be enough to deter most home invaders. Even if the invader is hit by only one pellet, he’s going to feel it and not be able to gauge the extent of his wound. The wound is most likely non-lethal, but he won’t know that. If he continues his aggression, a second 410 round can be more accurately placed. If that’s not enough the last three chambers with Colt longs should have all the stopping power you need.
@ shindiggyon-
Strip down your Judge (even remove the side plate) and clean everything, then clean it again. Taurus seems to like shipping out their guns very greasy. My 617 had terrible grittiness in the trigger during D/A and a few other odd issues. After a very intense cleanign session, it’s much better.
I’ve had mine (2.75 x 3″bbl) for a year now and zero problems with .45 or any shot shell I put through it. I can’t figure out a use for slugs when .45′s are available. At least 200 rounds of .45 and 100 of varying shot shells. I usually keep it loaded with 000 buck.
i have recently bought a “the judge” gun in early march 2010 i couldn’t get off 4 rounds before it jammed up on me the cylinder froze and could not fire the next round, on top of that the trigger stuck in the single action configuration and took a little bit of time to finally break it loose. i took it back to the store i bought it from, they agreed with me and i exchanged it for a ss judge (the first was a blue finish) this one same problem i dry fired as soon as i got home and same thing this time i couldn’t get it to break the cylinder froze or locked up, could not fire it at all! took it back to the store this time they said they’ll send it to the manufacturer to repair still waiting for my judge to come back, disappointing really was looking forward to this gun, if it comes back the same i’ll probably sell it or trade it for something that works and it won’t be for a taurus.
I assume you are referring to barrel length. The spread between the 2/12 inch and the 3inch would depend on distance. The further the distance, the wider the spread. However, at close range, less than 30 feet say, the spread is negligible. If you are referring to chamber size with the same barrel length, there would be no difference at close range. The 3 inch would have more penetrating power however, both at that range would certainly have stopping power.
Heath,
As for not finding a 3″ chamber Judge, they are very popular right now. Look closely at any in stock and don’t assume the gun shop knows exactly what they have in the way of Judge’s although, they are wiser now that it’s been around a while. When I bought mine, I couldn’t believe the gun shop owner assumed the 3″ barrel was only a 2-1/2 chamber. The gun was so new to the market, there was still a bit of confusion. The book and any of the markings on the box are not specific. They are pretty generic. This one was blued and he assumed the stainless was the 3″ inch. I had ordered the stainless and was waiting for about 4 months and it never came in and had no ETA. I wanted one so when I saw the blued one, I grabbed it. I’m still on a waiting list for a stainless. After the waiting period and I picked up the gun, I bought some ammo from him and also asked for 3″ 410′s. After a bit of verbal scrimmaging, we went to the range out back and I proved it was a 3″. As of this reply, after more than 600 rounds of 3″ 000 and various other loads, what a fun piece!!!
Heath, I am not sure what the difference would be but I agree with Tony it would be negligeable. From experience in shootng the PD at approximately ten feet with the #4 shot shell, the pattern covers a 24″x36″ silouhette target. The majority of the shot is within the shaded portion of the target. Hope this helps.
I’m sure it does, but with just an inch in difference, I doubt the spread would be that noticeable.
It’s amazing how many comments this particular blog entry has received! Last weekend I went with my father to look for a Judge. Unfortunately all we were able to find was one of the 2 1/2″ models and nothing in 3″. We’ll keep looking or just end up ordering what we want.
We both agreed we have no need for the 454 model they’re coming out with this year. It would be cool to go shoot but would serve no practical purpose for us.
No one can answer if the 3 inch Taurus or the 2 inch public defender has a different spread with # 4 shot gun shells.
Hey,
you don’t see many girls on this site, any way the reason I got my Public defender is my biggest fear is missing my target. Now when I go target shooting, it makes me feel good to see all those little holes all over my paper. I walk alone and have had a couple of creepy’s turn from their route and start following me, so I have my PD loaded with 4-#4 shot, and 1-45 long colt. I figure if he’s still coming at me after getting hit with all that shot, I’ll finish him off with a 45. Hopefully this will never happen! I love it, and my husband even likes it after trying to talk me out of getting it.
I’ve shot several 2 1/2″ 000Buck .410 rounds through my Public Defender between 7-25 feet. Regardless of the distance the point of aim is the point of impact. At 25 feet the spread is minimal, the three holes of each round are touching consistently on the paper with each shot.
You will hit what you are aiming at with minimal spread using the 000 buck rounds. Definitely a terminal personal defense round. I personally do not like the #4 shot rounds past 7 feet, I have not performed any back yard penetration test with the #4 shot not a choice of personal protection for me.
I am currently working up some hand loads for the 45LC using Hornady .452, 250 grain XTP. Will post information on the best load data.
Any word yet how much the polymer frame judge is going to cost, and when is it coming out?
Today I got my Judge. It’s the 2 1/2″ chamber, 3″ barrel, in matte stainles finish. I’ve read reviews, seen videos and firmly believe for close quarters defense situations this is by far the best option available to date. It is effective for a seasoned shooter or a novice. I have, on more than one occasion, been on the business end of a gun, and knife. I’m a seasoned shooter and can say by experience that when, in a defense situation, I find it more realistic and probable that multiple projectiles, fired quickly, will be more effective than trying to get those three dots lined up for a shot, or shooting from the hip and hitting the threat. think about it; suddenly awakened, or a sudden approach to the vehicle, nerves, heart racing, heavy breathing, low or no light, confusion, forgot to put on your glasses, accounting for the friendlies in the residence or general area, inexperience. then quickly deciding to engage or take a defensive position. will you try to remove the threat or eliminate it? Most people, experienced or not, will be better off with the judge in their hand pointed across the room, car, cab, or brush. Don’t be a victim, get a judge. PS; Be certain the receiver is definately not a friendly; they can’t be replaced, and stay in the heart and mind for ever. thanks.
i just bought the judge public defender today
I allready put 2 boxes of 45 lc and 2 boxes of 410 shells
It is a great gun and the 45 are very accurate at 30 yds and the shot shells are very devistating up close and personal so this will be my choice of concealed deadly weapon.
Walther doesn’t make P3AT’s. Kel-Tec does. ??
As much as I love it for Home Defense or as a snake gun, I think it’s too big for concealed carry. I personally carry two Walther P3ATs with Crimson Lasers loaded with Buffalo Bore Hi-Test .380. Each pistol weighs 12 ounces a piece loaded with 6+1 and sporting bullets more powerful than any non +P 9mm or 38 special. Intermingled slug and hollow-points make short work of any bad guys.
Sorry about the spelling in the above post, I am not a mouth breather, just a fundy typist!
I have the public defender, and it has performed as adveertised, but I do have the trigger guard putting a hurt on the finder problem. I think a different grip would solve it, but I have found no one making an aftermarket grip for it yet.
ooo Buck is a hard shooter no matter where it comes out of. I have 3in ooo for my .410 and the five .36 caliber balls traveling faster than they ever did from a .36 is a good medicine for any goblin at close range.
Oops, make that 5 times as hard. Fuzzy mathematician here.
I have a couple of Judges and I got SICK of all these BS comments about penetration so I did my own test. They are actually 36mm OOO shot.
From 20 feet with a 3″ Winchester 000, I EASILY penetrated a pine 2×4, no surprise there. Then from 20 feet I fired at a 3/4″ Ipe plank. Ipe is one of the hardest woods in the world, twice as strong as pressure treated pine with a hardness level 6 times harder than mahogany (630) at 3,180. The 000 shot penetrated the Ipe as well. I don’t think a mass of flesh and bone will do better.
Naysayers can “read” all they want. I own, I did it, so that’s all there needs to be said.
I bought the Judge 3 inch mag for my self about 2 months ago. It is fun to shoot and at close range I think it would stop a person very well if loaded with buck shot.
I dont think I would use it as a CCW just because of the size but as I said before i is a very fun gun and does real well for small animals like snakes.
I have had a small issue with it though. It seems that when I shoot fedeal 2.5 inch bird shot through it that the empty casings ocasionally get stuck and are a little hard to get out of the chamber. I have never hd the problem with any other brand or calabur however.
so in my opinion for home defence I would go with a 12 guage, For a CCW I would go with some thing smaller like a 357 or a 38 but that does not mean I dont like my judge, it is a fun gun and I feel that it was wrth the money, as othr people have said it would be a good self defence gun from carjackers and it is great for snakes and ground squirls.
I’ve been reading some great reviews online. I’ve noticed however, that all those opposed to the judge, seem to always point to the box o truth. Interestingly, other websites with positive reviews, such as Gunblast, never get mentioned.
The box o truth mainly sites that the .410 would not have enough penetration in a subject. However, Gunblast’s test with a pork shoulder refuted this notion. I think the main problem is, people want the judge to be accurate from 25 yards with the .410, and well, that aint the purpose of this gun. (the .45lc WILL definitely reach and touch someone)
Recently that new Federal shells came out, as mentioned earlier, specifically designed for the judge. I saw a test in a gun magazine (can’t remember the name off the top of my head) as well as websites that showed this shell definitely will do the trick.
It showed at just over 10 yards, the penetration of the 000 Buck met the standards of FBI ballistic testing. The spread wasn’t as bad as other loads as well.
.32 caliber size pellets penetrate a body in four different places at the same time, increasing your chances of hitting a vital area, with just one shot, thats pretty darn good in my book. Sounds perfect to me, for home defense, in the car, and carrying it in point and shoot situations. The FBI supposedly says most gun fights occur with 8 feet. Let off two or three rounds real quick with the judge, and I’m confident bad guy go bye bye.