Kel-Tec RFB 7.62mm bullpup rifle
Kel-Tec displayed their new RFB 7.62x51mm (.308) bullpup rifle at SHOT Show. SMGLee took some great photos.
With suppressor, nice!
Wikipedia has this to say about the rifle:
The Kel-Tec RFB High Efficiency Rifle (Rifle, Forward-ejection, Bullpup) is a gas-operated semi-automatic rifle with a tilting breechblock locking mechanism, manufactured by Kel-Tec Industries of Florida. It loads the 7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) cartridge and uses metric FAL magazines. The rifle uses a patented forward-ejection system via a tube placed over the barrel that ejects the spent case forwards, over the handguard of the rifle.
The rifle is a forward ejecting semi-automatic firearm chambered in 7.62 mm NATO (.308 Winchester), utilizing a short-stroke gas piston. To avoid the sloppy trigger pull typical of bullpup style firearms, the RFB utilizes a floating linkage bar between the sear and the hammer, allowing the sear to remain above the trigger. The weapon is fully ambidextrous, much in the style of the French FAMAS bullpup assault rifle. The RFB accepts FN FAL style magazines, and is delivered without iron sights. A mil-spec Picatinny rail is standard.
Here is a video of the rifle, clearly showing the forward ejection.
Kel-Tec plans to offer three different four versions each with a different barrel length:
- Carbine (18″),
- Sporter (24″),
- Target (32″ heavy barrel, or 26″ stainless steel barrel)
The rifle is expected this quarter (1st quarter 2008) in the forth quarter, see the comments by dogon1013.
More images after the jump.
Click to enlarge the images.
new find.
as for those how are woried as for the foward ejection but stil like the bullpup and the ambidex ability as it on the RFB. I do recomend that they google> longziz#1 and have a loke at this genius invention on firearms..
it not yet on the market he still working on it but it make me drolle a lot as I will not be able to put hand on it in canada as bullpup kit convertion as been pribited in canada..sniff sniff. for me bullpup lover for bush hunting or easyest tramprtation….
enjoye loking at this gizmo… loke reely neat. be a real jowelle for us…
Quit the whinning who cares if someone miss spells a word, you must go through life very aggrevated if it bothers you that much. I am here to see about the gun, want to find out if it is ergonomically better than the Centry Arms AK Bullpup (right length between trigger grip and butt to soulder). My friend had to cut his stock off as much as he could to fit his size (OK now but not perfect). I am looking to add a recoil pad so hope to find a dealer who has one for me to address this problem.
PS, don’t bother correcting me if any grammer mistakes found, I DON”T CARE!
“Only in America can you Work, Build Hot Rods and drag race them, Own and shoot guns and listen to any type of music and say what you believe and remain FREE!” Go USA
@Matteo: It’s ‘lucid’, not ‘lucide’.
By the way, ran it through my programs. So all three are correct! So yeah, don’t think so. Unless it was put there intentionally for effect. Have a nice day Oddbod.
Have you considered that the poster’s first language might not be English.
I also suggest you spend a little time brushing up on your own spelling, grammar & punctuation, as your post is full of errors encompassing all three.
Let us now return to discussing the RFB.
OMG what the hell is this crap with the GAWD awful spelling and grammar…seriously in this day and age if you have a computer you have some form of a spell check—-USE IT! Seriously not trying to be a troll but who wants to sit down and read something where you have to decypher someone else’s sentences. It’s like looking at something a 3rd grader would have wrote! We’re all adults here, so lets take a moment to proof read your posts to ensure it’s lucide and intelligible!
Jason
I had been on the weeb this morning looking at bullpup
and find back the info on the new kit for the M14 at shortfiles.com
also those do I had forgot.
keppler SV bullpup
you could also google but is french ( bullpup arme) and I did find an interesting bullpup who had been made in france from Unique FMR but look that in don’t know who to put the pic in.
also an eror of me the bullpup pomp-action was made in Germanie you will see the pic at bullpup arme on google.
also had remember that durring the segond war germanie and US had experimented wit bullpup in US it was Garand to converte in bullpup their M1 Garand. find some rare pic of them to.
but looking at semi-auto 308 fully ambidex only one existing is the KT RFB.
Jason Normand
At our quetion if other 308 bullpu had been made is yes.
the first one I ever see was the Walther 2000 now discontinued some blog said that only a 100 or so had been made har to find and up to 10,000$ even 20,000$ was aviable in 308 and 300WM.
the seconde find it in google few week ago is Russian look as prototype call CAP 614
google ( world bullpup arms)
the other semi was corvetion
A) from AWC is I spell well the mame was base on the M14, tow model one stadar, one sniper, modernisation fron the Israelien covetion also from the M14 call M86.
more recently
Polish come out with the bor/alex tactical sporter but no info about aviability to civilian.(boltaction)
AMP dsr-1 from Germanie (boltaction)
Desert tactical from USA (boltaction)
an other was a pompaction from England with was actioned by the moving of the pistolgrip insted of the forhand.
other one from US was also a convetion of the M14 and new didn’t like the look so aven’t keep track of it.
but as the drgonov had been also made in 308 wonder if the SVD vertion bullpup had been or not made in 308??
my previous coment do not talk about defencive or combat as living in Canada it pointless if not talking as proibited to have anny firearms loded at homme.
the law stipulation is as this
the fierarms and amunition have to bee store separatly. (as it main that your amos can’t bee even in the same vault that your rifles is store) and the law also stipulate that your rifles or any firearms had to bee store in a vault desing for this purpose. if you ever store it together and the police come to our house for and inspection and find any firearms who are not store as required by the law you wil get tiket to jail ((do not pass go)) so it is in Canada
As for suvival if I had only one choice and no ther I will probabli go for a 20ga shotgun.
why? it will be ok for deer as well at puting down bear or cougar with a slog or multy shot, and a + as good varriety of birdshot for small game.
If gryslie had to be in consideration it will be a 12 ga or even a 10ga.
as been able to get the KSG in canada I be surprise as it loads at 15 shot and just considering that some shotgun are alredy prybited in canada as considered as combat for police or military use only a 15 shot shotgun will be definitvly proibited even with a 20″ barel who is in my choise the minimun length for a barel performance. it why I like bullpup short coming with longer standar barel..
as for those how had been asking if it legal and aviable in canada yes and non restristed for huntimg.
the vault in Vancouvert advertise it and also I had seen in cherching for the rfb in canada other have it as in Edmonton on the 97 ave as listed at 2400$ cad.
been interested In the Rfb as big fan ofd bullpup as huting in bushy aera for as those rifles been more easy to bring arond.
like the abidex of it but will wayt for the 24″ barel to come out.
for those aking if it will be aviable in 223R or 6,8SPC or anny other calbres it will not for sure as I am writhing this, as I have E-mail week ago to Keltec for inquiring about it as I was wayting for it to come out in 7.62X39 for deer hunting as my range are more often betwen 30 to 50 yads situation to enconter deer verry privilegie in the matter. their answer was as so “we don’t have any plan in the presant to ofer the RFB in anny other caliber ” did also sugest that it will be aviable in 243 Winchester as a member of the 308 familie as it as been done with the M14, FN FAL, and other 308 semi-auto rifles.
My other option as the 308 is more powerfull as my need is to have it rebareled in 243W as it is a 6mm that will do a perfect choice for me as it will be use as coyotes and deer as well as marmot controle.
that said I will said do not be afraid of new ting or loke to option that can be done for more choices.
sory for my bad writing alway be like this very bad at spelling.
It’s the DMR!
Oddbod, you didnt say that I read anyway, do you own the RFB or did you get to just shoot one? If you purchased it, what do you say and for anyone that purchased one, was it a good investment do you find? Another thing thats been asked in this thread over and over again; Can you see whats in the chamber? Is there a rnd indicator? I have the FS-2000 and have no issues with the ejection tube, honestly I really like it, I am not worried about hitting my own brass, and if your carring the weapon muzzle down then there will be no brass to fall out and give away your position. But lets say you have a rnd chambered and you want to clear the chamber, does it have a breech, or does the rnd your removing from the chamber have to go out the ejection tube, or maybe out the magazine port? While this is certainly not ideal and I guess I could learn to live with it, but I do hope that you can eject a full unspent rnd other than it having to go out the ejecting tube. Ok, I watched the video and yea it looks like this thing has a good kick to it, even though some of the guys are reporting little more than a M4, I do believe its going to be quite abit more than a M4. But then the rifle is not but 7 lbs when a M1A1 runs around 14 lbs. so I would expect that you would feel it when you pulled the trigger. Kind of makes shooting it no fun after so many rnds, but when your just plinking you can put some padding between you and the butt like a towell or something. After shooting my Para Fal a lot of rnd it gets kind of unconfortable too and the padding thing works well. The only other thing to do is add some weight to the rifle. But I got to say, that it being almost weightless is one of the most attractive things about this weapon. I am not the largest frame person or the strongest, plus I hate to say it but I am getting older and I will never be as strong as I once was, but being able to grab this thing when its sitting almost anywhere in the vehicle and being able to pick it up fully loaded with one hand with swiftness till I can get the other hand on it and not strugle with it puts a lot of plus’s in the Pro column. And if for some reason you had to grab it in a emergency and fire it, I bet you want ever even feel that kick, kind of like the deer you use to shoot or possibly still do if your lucky. But I bet its loud, even though it has a full length barrel the end of the barrel is still so much closer to your ears and head that if you had to shoot it w/o ears on I bet your ears would ring while just plinking, but again almost un-noticable in an emergency situation, funny how that works is’nt it? Right now the black long gun market is just about flat, in fact the biggest seller right now is weapons like the Keltec pocket .380′s. But try to get a owner to buy one of these rifles to stock and its next to impossible but they will carry a rack of AR-15′s or AK’s and right now they are not moving well at all.
“#
AnointedSwordon 29 Jan 2011 at 4:11 pm
Way too much kick for a CQC rifle. Oo”
You must be recoil sensitive to think so (I shoot 3 gun with a FAL para).
Way too much kick for a CQC rifle. Oo
@pki1955
Congrats. They’re still running in the $1,550 range here, when and if you can find one. I’m still waiting for the 24 inch version myself. Kel-Tec had this same problem getting their SU-16 series out though. They’re still rare. I hope they don’t keep this up with the RFB.
There have sure been a lot of positive reports coming out from people who own the RFB. It’s looking like the gun to own.
@pki1955: your not going to require an instant sight on, wow where did you learn to shoot! I’d love to hit my targets without sighting in…so need to learn that. While the .308/ 7.62x51mm is a wonderful round it isn’t the magic round either. I have much love for the .308 as I own 4 rifles chambering it. Oh and FYI the .223 battle rifle commonly thought of as the M4/ M-16 isn’t a full auto rifle either it’s a 3 round burst select option. Unless your refering to the SAW(Squad automatic weapon) And it has little to do with a being a requirement since it chambers a smaller round! And I have been know to hunt dear with a .223 and have brought them down with one shot just like I’ve had a deer keep on trucking after being hit with a .308 round. I’m happy your happy about your new RFB. In any event I hope you enjoy your RFB as much as I enjoy mine!
Glad to see this thread still running. I’ve handled the weapon, and IMHO this thing ain’t bad at all! Makes me start trying to figure out what I don’t need anymore that I could either sell or trade!
I got got a price of a little over $1300, not bad huh? Guys let’s be realistic with the .308 you are not going to require an instant sight on. With the .308 it should be one shot one kill. That’s why the .223 in the battle field is full auto because the little .223 just don’t get it done. Not only that with the .308 you can shot against hardened targets, ie, cars and armored vest with out that instant 2nd round. If you cannot take down a deer sized target with one shot you are pressing your chances. I’ll take a one shot, one kill any time even if I have to slow down a couple of tenths of a second to get back on target.
Sept. 2010 just now hearing about this.
Was told in 2005 that my 16″ Galil in .308 was the ultimate Rifle, by a SWAT Armorer.
I added some extras and an ACOG.
The .308 Bullpup was on my mind since the 1990′s.
From my experience with the HK91 system with both the single and two stage recoil buffers, and reading the reviews of the RFB as well as watching the video I can only offer three changes.
1. Raise the rail system commensurate to:
2. A polymer cheek peice to protect the operators face and dental work from the jaring effects of the action.
3. Disect and reverse engineer the dualstage HK91 recoil buffer. After watching the video of the people running this gun the recoil needs to be tamed. I recalled the two Rifles I had and found the Rifle with the twostage buffer to be litterly a different animal in regards to the felt recoil. It almost felt like an M4, not a 308. I would take such a product with all of these improvments even if it added 3″. I would expect absolute control from this.
The only other option is for TDI to do a Kriss SuperV action on the FRB. WOW!
does ne one know of any other bull pups that shoot the 7.62 51mm .308 win! ive seen alot of the ak version bull pups but i like this one because of the foward ejection and the fact it fires the .308 version of the 7.62. gives you alot more range for long shots this rifle makes an effective sniper rifle with the proper scope and decent range and offers the ability to take out multiple targets without worrying about reloading or using a bolt actions!! checking my options though but i want a bull pup! i have always been a 5.56 man m16 all the way! but these new bull pups are way more effective in combat situations! and from what ive seen for the price and the uses this is the best all round rifle out right now. would yall agree or what is your opinion id love to know before buying my new weapon!!i was looking as ps90 but just doesn’t have the power or versatility of the rfb. also was reading someone said that forward ejecting didnt work well all the time and led to jam ups anyone who owns one or seen one in action please tell me if this is true!i heard sum 1 say that downward eject is better but i dont see how laying in all ur shell casings in a fire fight if ur pinned down i thought foward eject was going to be the ansewer to hot brass all over the man next to you! and does kel tec have a patend on the foward eject? thanks everyone! norman
Got a call on Tax Day from my local gun shop. I had the owners wife on the hunt for an RFB for me…and it came in. I was there in 20 minutes and a half hour after that I walked out with an ACOG 4×32 equipped RFB. Ordered some extra mags and ammo online and await their arrival so I can make a trip to the range! Hoowaa!
matteo,
I haven’t had a chance to get any shooting done in a while, but I’m working on changing that soon. I just got done clearing 21 acres on my ranch, so once I get the brushpiles burned, I’ll have a safe shooting area that will allow me ranges from point-blank out to 480 yards. As soon as I get that ready, it’ll be easier for me to just go out of the house & shoot at my leisure, instead of driving miles, paying fees & trying to shoot on a range built for munchkins. First thing will be to contunue firing my RFB & letting everyone know how it went.
Yea, Oddbod I had saw that, and wondered if your jabbbing me but don’t take me seriously, or if that was the evil eye because I had talked about a FAL in a negative way.
Man thats one weapon you might as well be talking about some Chaps wife when you talk about it. Folks are real serious and touchy about that rifle.
After shooting some of my 5.56′s and I bring out the FAL you can certainly tell you moved up with the big iron. Plus you can see the hole in what ever your shooting at w/o having to go walk and see how your grouping are.
You know its just hard to believe that our G.I. toted those Garands all across Europe and all those Pacific Islands when you compare it to the alloys and plastics we have today. Then again even today there are a lot of M14′s and M21′s being used in Afghanistan and we are selling abunch of M21′s to Pakistan right now.
Speaking of which, does anyone know about the trigger assembly on these RFB’s? Is it made out of iron or is it like the FN’s and its an all plastic assembly? I was somewhat disheartened by that. Those guys at FN know better than I do, but can that plastic stand up to the heat in the Middle East and the cold of some of the places we may go? The winter saved Russia’s tail a couple of times, Back with Alexander the Great and the German’s in WWII. It just seems like that plastic might snap like a cracker in cold enough weather, or melt like cheese in a microwave oven in the heat. For what we are paying for these things I fully expect it to be worth the price we are paying. For examply did any of you know you need to change the slide spring in a Kimber Pro Carry after just 4000 rnds? For a $1200 dollar pistol i find this observe. Its 8,000 rnds on most of their other 1911′s which is also observe.
Well I am sorry I snapped back on you Oddbod, honestly I never would have thought I would be seeking information for anything from KT, except possibly a used throw down. But these guys are the only one’s building what I am looking for. I don’t mean to be implementing they are a 2nd rate company, I put them right up there with Charter Arms, Hi Point, Rock Island etc etc and all these companies weapons work and work well.
I wasn’t being serious matey – hence the smiley.
Then you missed the point of the post (probably because it was so mundane). The FAL is as long and heavy as the rest of those weapons mentioned. The FAL has certainly been used by more armies than any other weapon ever made I will give you that. But my point was about size and weight vs size and weight along with accuracy.
I got nothing against the FAL and love my para style 21″ FAL. The KT will never be on the same level as the FAL to the masses, but it might be to me if I had to carry it all day long and urban warfare was the order of the day. I want something short, but with a full lenght barrel. Besides the insides of the KT is the same or somewhat the same as the FAL, even uses the same mags.
I didn’t mean to step on your toes. I know these weapons have an almost cult like following. I am member of that cult.
I’ll agree with most of that but take issue with the FAL/SLR being lumped in with all that mundane stuff
This thing about the ejected brass and your bullets hitting them is a waste of time and space on a hard drive. I have the FS-2000 and quite frankly love the way it ejects. I can fire 6 rnds before the door opens to drop the spent brass and if I have completed my mission there will be nothing but my boot print left behind and that want even be there if I am on concrete, there will be no brass for anyone to match it to my rifle. I am more concearned about the accuracy @ 400 plus yards than anything else, and i have to admit the pressure thing about NATO rnds and general Remington hunting rnds is something I didnt know about either, and that gives me reason for concearn. I will be shooting both rnds, but I will probably have 150 grain hunting rnds in the mags I intend on defending myself with. They do more damage than a Nato rnd does, and I don’t really care to just poke a hole in something though and through.
The price is a little high for a KT, but I have certainly spent more on other more famed weapons. You got to give it to KT for one thing, they are at least building one. I would have though FN or some of these larger names would have done so first. Besides a link someone else posted ealier I didn’t know anyone else was even built one, and that one is above the price I intend on spending for a rifle is going to be. A pro for it is; it already has all the Pic rails you will ever need then a con is; they could have put some iron sites if nothing more than what they put on the FS 2000. I certainly intend on putting my own optics on it, but it would of been nice to have a backup set (and especially at this price) in case of primary or my optics failing (I know I can add them). Another pro; and this is the only reason I would consider this rifle and thats its length and weight plus the fact that it has a full length barrel on it. Otherwise a M1A1 would certainly satisfy my needs with a Sage stock.
But I think all of us looking at this weapon have the same thing in mind. Lets see how can I put this? Tell you what, go to your gun safe and pull out that Garand, FAL or M1A1/M14, or even a Enfield 303, 1903 or a 1918, now pull out a AR-15, or a AK47, FS2000, PS90, what ever version AUG you have and sit them side by side it doesnt take long to fiure out what we are all after. That finest battle emplement ever built doesnt seem to be so fine anymore does it? And we are all the same, we dont feel the 5.56 has enough weight in its britches and this Kel-Tec fulfills a lot, if not all the things we are looking for. Now if I can just get one in my hands and give it a good running my questions will be answered. That one rifle jamming on the 5th rnd doesn’t bother me a bit, its a new weapon or Pete’s sake, shoot a couple hundred rnds thought it then lets see how its working.
I have become completely interested in this weapon and think it fills a niche that heavily appeals to me. So I’d love to hear more from herbstine about his as well as others that have purchased it. I’m undecided in my choice of the carbine or sporter models. Might get both, LoL.
I’ve been in love for a while
#1, Canadian legal? (y) (n)
#2, Price?
Looks solid, thanks for the blog
Way to go Vinster. I totally agree.
@notimpressed
I hate myself for this, I know it’s just feeding the troll, but here it is.
If your shooting straight down (would have to, to actually hit brass) you might want to buy a fishing pole. Not to mention how loud that would be in a bob house.
As far as your empties hitting someone on the head, what would you do with an AR? put tape over the ejection port?
You could (just like with an AR) put a catch bag on so your brass never hits the ground. I’ve planned on that since I placed my order in March last year.
Three rounds in and your worried about them hearing the brass hit, do you know how LOUD this gun is?
The only real problem with this gun is, mine isn’t here yet
but thank you for not ordering one, more for us.
Herbstine, keltec has said that the reason for the .308 was that it was easier to size a larger gun down than it was to size a smaller gun up. In other words, they started with the .308 because that was the largest version that they intended to create. The smaller versions will come later.
As for the bullet catching the brass, the chances of that happening are nill to impossible. The bullet will be far down range before the ejected round is shoved into the tube, forcing a shell to fall out of the tube.
As for dropping empties while maneuvering, just point the muzzle at the ground after the fire fight is over and clear the tube. The sound of the empties hitting the ground is hardly the loudest noise in the middle of a fire fight. Besides, this gun is pretty unlikely to be used for anything where you would have to be worried about this.
A far bigger problem is that you have to remove the magazine to view the chamber.
On a bullpup, bottom ejection would be best, but forward ejection at least lets you shoot weak side if you have to.
The ejection port isn’t flush with the muzzle. It’s set back a bit. Shooting your own brass is quite a longshot. And if you have fired the weapon enough to fill the chute with brass, you’ve lost your element of surprise in a house clearing situation anyway.
I was a little standoffish on forward eject too, until I started studying it further. I’m sure it has some drawbacks, but all ejection systems do. It has some benefits too. Like everything, it’s a compromise.
I think like any new system, it will take some getting used to and training. If surprise is critical, perhaps pointing the gun down for a moment to make sure there’s no brass in the chute, or something.
To Not impressed:
The forward eject doesn’t “launch” the brass forward, it slides out of the front via gravity or follow-on brass forcing it forward. The odds of a bullet hitting a spent case from forward ejection are about the same as a bullet hitting a spent case ricochetting off the ceiling.
If you are close enough for any of your empties to hit your enemy on the head, he’s either a complete idiot or you’ve already lost the surprise you think you had. If your foe can hear the empties go ching a ling a ling, I think he heard the shots they came from, again surpise lost.
I like the forward eject, I haven’t had any problems with it. It’s also nice not to have to worry about a piece of hot brass hitting me after bouncing off a post or wall or whatever when firing in an enclosed area. I’ve had it happen.
Bad design with that forward eject. I can see shooting down at a angle and the bullet connecting with the brass……..bad!
How about if you clearing a house or building or a hill and you point your rifle down and three empties hit your enemy in the head or go ching a ling a ling…..you just lost your surprise and got shot.
True, I was thinking you were wanting something right away. I don’t know how long it will be before Kel-Tec comes out with one. I’m guessing they are trying to follow the military line of thought, which is ‘we need bigger bullets’.
They are not Kel-Tec.
Steyr, FN & Bushmaster all make bullpup carbines in .223.
I would love to see one of these in 5.56/223 for an entry weapon. I think it would be good for patrol officers who have very little room in their vehicles due to all of the equipment we have to carry plus it would be great for an active shooter situation.
p1choco; I haven’t found any adjustment point for the trigger on my carbine, & the instruction manual makes no reference to being able to do that. Looking at the drawing they have in there, the trigger system is fairly complex.
The trigger pull on mine is crisp, without being hard. I don’t have a gage, so I couldn’t tell you what it breaks at. It has a very short take-up, with no creep.
herbstine, I’ve read that the trigger is adjustable on all models and only the long model. What is the case with your rifle? Also, can you elaborate on what the trigger pull feels like. Does it break cleanly and reset shortly from the factory?
I wanna know that too. Is it legal in Canada? I’m pretty sure at least the 20 round magazine isn’t…
Damnn this thing looks nice, unfortunately I don’t quite have the cash yet.
Is anyone aware of if I can obtain this in Canada?
Thanks
What I’ve read tells me that the longer barrel versions will be out later, relaease date not yet revealed. You can also replace the 18″ barrel with the 24″ & 28″ barrels, but it requires a gunsmith with a well equipped shop. I’d wait for the long barrel version, if that was what I wanted in this weapon. The trigger guard is a molded part of the pistol grip assembly. I haven’t heard of any variants to be made. I think this would preclude any winter assembly.
It’s not an M1/M14. Parts aren’t interchangeable. I haven’t seen them mention a winter trigger option.
Gentlemen, please, enough Kel-Tec bashing. Focus on the rifle not the company.
I have a question about the RFB. Can I replace the trigger assembly with one that has a winter trigger and safety? I personally prefer this type because it physically puts something in the way of the trigger and I think it is safer. Also, the only rifles that I have found (a few of these rifles are in the gun shops where I live) are only the 18 inch variety. I want the target variant. Can I replace the 18 inch barrel with a new M1/14 barrel?
Right now, the only mag I’m using is the one provided with the rifle. I bought 12 from SG earlier in anticipation of getting an RFB. (Now all I have to do is remember where I put them!)
Sounds like you might have some problematic mags. I’ve ran into those for my FAL in the past. I just ended up tossing the bad mags since they were dirt cheap at the time. Maybe try mags from another source.
EoTech 512 came in Fri. Mounted & used laser to initial set-up. Went to range Sat. EoTech did the trick! 25 yd, 6″ tgt. Fired 50 rds in 5 rd groups. All rds in each group within 2″ area. Only 1 malfunction, rd 4 in 2nd mag hung on mag lip. Dropped mag, cleared & put rd back in mag, charged & continued firing. No further malfs. Now to work on the 5X adapter I bought for the EoTech!
Well, I took it out to Astro’s Range Saturday. Used an in-muzzle laser to pre-set the sights. Fired 10 rds, 2 groups of 5, benched 25yds. Only 3 hits on paper. Deflection seemed consistant, but elevation was all over. I believe the site radius available on the rail is entirely too short for the Magpul flip ups. The front sight looks as thick as an oak tree, and the rear apperture is like a living room window! I have an EoTech 512 on order.
But no malfunctions this time. Took the mag apart last week. No dirt, no rust, no noticeable deformities. Wiped it out & light lube with Rem-Oil. Loaded & fed with no problems.
Bfree, I don’t know what your issue is. I hate Glocks with a bloody passion, but I don’t go around trying to keep people from buying them or harrassing those who do. And if you had actually READ what Herbstine had written, he FIRED the first round and had a failure to feed because of the magazine. I own FALs and the mags can be a pain if they’re not clean and lubed. How can you fault a gun because it’s magazine failed?
I forgot, you have such deep issues with the brand that logic no longer applies. Hang in there, keep slinging insults all you want. But where will you be when/if the positive reports start flowing in? Apologetic? Feel like a fool for previous comments? Nah, you’ll just fade away into the anonymity of the internet like so many flamers before you. Show some sense and wait till the reports start flowing in. Then if they’re negative, jump out with a giant “I TOLD YOU SO!”. All your doing now is setting yourself up to receive a bunch of them. I realize that you WANT the RFB to be junk, but isn’t it better to wait and see if it is before slinging mud?
herbstineon,
Congratulations! and thanks for the mini review. We’ll be looking forward to your updates.
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bfreeon 30 Jul 2009 at 11:56 am link comment
Malfunction on first round??? I guess we all have our own standards of “favorable”. I’m just glad I’m making my own weapon’s choices.
You can’t even get that right.
It was the 5th round & MAGAZINE related rather than the rifle…..
Your lack of ability to even get this right shows your irrational bias.
Car analogies have no bearing on this subject: The Kel-Tec RFB has received favourable reports from all & sundry, up to & including a comparison with current military firearms.
Tell me: Have you even SEEN the RFB for real, never mind handling or firing it?
At the beginning of October I’ll get some real time comparison in between the RFB, Steyr-Aug, FN F2000, L85A2 & TAR-21 & that’s just the bullpups. Now what they look like but how they handle & shoot.
When I get back to the UK afterwards, I might just let you know how they do – without any unsubstantiated & preconceived bias based on completely different products………
bfree, you have made you point.
The bickering needs to end. No more discussion about reliability.
Bill, it’s no use..like the Camaro analogy, it’s no use telling you the Camaro just isn’t an Indy Car, even if you think it is. Good luck with that “Kel-Tec”. LMAO
Malfunction on first round??? I guess we all have our own standards of “favorable”. I’m just glad I’m making my own weapon’s choices.
So bfree, you see a couple of failures to feed (NOT misfires) as an issue when herbstine himself mentioned NO lubrication AND that the problem appeared to be the follower in the FAL magazine?
In the past I’ve seen similar issues with new firearms from Colt, DSA, FN, Kimber, CZ., etc……..
….a couple of drops of lube in the right place & some rounds down range to bed in the action & they’ve been fine, or have you never noticed that guns smooth out after initial use?
Give credit where it’s due & by ALL accounts it’s owed to Kel-Tec for the RFB
bfree
You can’t give up can you?
ALL the reports I’ve seen on the RFB have been favourable – from those who’ve actually used one.
So why should your uninformed & subjective bias against Kel-Tec mean anything?
Oh, it doesn’t.
Herbstine et. al…this just shows you a typical experience with a Kel-Tec…misfire, first round, brand new weapon. The problem is that after people purchase a firearm they will ignore and tolerate issues that they would never find acceptable before purchasing the weapon.
Good luck with that Kel-Tec.
Mahnn..for God’s sake, it’s a KEL-TEC. Didn’t I read one of your previous posts where you had bought Camaro and you were planning on running it in F1. LMAO.
I just purchased my RFB Monday. I have to say, I was more than impressed by this weapon. It’s a little heavier than an M4 carbine (by about a pound or 2) but it’s a little shorter. It is extremely well balanced, loaded or unloaded. The fit & finish is as good if not better than any new weapon I ever handled in 20 yrs of Army service. It had no sights included, so I bought a set of MagPul pop-up iron sights (I’ll probably add an EOTech later). It included 1 20 rd FN mag, sling & attachments, & the instruction manual.
I had to try it out that day, so I loaded up 20 rds of LC 76 ball (had a little trouble after rd 15, but a mag slap & the rest went in easy) & headed out to a safe area (empty stock pond on my place). I didn’t take any tools with me, as I was most interested in handling & recoil at this point. Set up target at about 25 yards. Did not pre-lube the weapon, fired it as it came out of the box. First 5 rounds out, no problem, then came failure to feed. Charged, fired 1 round, failure to feed. Pulled magazine, the rounds were about 1/4″ below feedlip & rolling loose. Follower was hung up. Did a mag slap, reinserted mag, charged & fired all remaining rounds, no problem (I’ll take the mag apart later to see what was the hold-up).
Recoil was a bit more than an M4, but a little less than a 30-30. Recoiled mostly straight back, only climbed about 1/2″ at muzzle. Re-aquiring was easy. Can’t comment on accuracy yet, range was short & I didn’t boresite the sites. I was on for deflection, but firing way too high. Impacts seemed consistant. Spent rounds ended up in a fairly neat little pile in front of my firing point. I only managed to loose 2, somewhere in the deep cracks in the dried up pond floor.
Disassembly can be done with just a complete 7.62 rd, as can the gas adjustment (using rim).
BTW, I have a KelTec P40 I carry as my concealed weapon. It is a competant pistol that has never failed me (fortunately, I haven’t had to use it in defense, just in practice). I haven’t been as impressed with KelTec rifles, until now. The RFB is a much beefier tank compared to the other long guns they make.
From what I’ve seen so far, I would not hesitate to take this rifle into battle.
I’ll update as I work with it more, if anyone’s interested.
The results on a model that is just over legal is what I am waiting for as well.
If a model is offered where the overall length is legal and the accuracy is MOA or better then 1 rifle may be the only thing you need.
Especially if you keep the package to an overall small form factor and you carrry (or install) a pair of backup irons.
It will be at least a year till yo will be able to find one of these and see it in a gun rack ready for you to take a look at it.
Before then it is all order+pray it is right for you.
As a survival style firearm it may have no equal for all that it can do if it performs as well as reports are saying it is.
I would like to have one to test in a real world mountain run and see how it would act in that capacity.
Mahhn,
Thanks for the link. That’s an informative thread. I especially appreciated the info on the RFB’s accuracy and trigger. Every bullpup I have fired or handled had a horrid trigger. Looks like the RFB will not only be more accurate than I had thought, but have a sweet trigger too! This is turning out more and more to be exactly what I was looking for in a rifle.
Now if only gun show sales would pick up, so I can afford the 24 inch model when it comes out!
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/05/28/an-interview-with-matt-at-kel-tec-on-the-rfb/
Great Q & A with Matt from Kel-Tec R&D
Just about anything you could ask is answered!
Nice article and I agree with his assessment.
Although I do not want to derail the conversation at all, the MKIII is the pistol I am picking up and I am going the extra step to teflon coat it.
“Big Gun/Little Pistol” and “Big Pistol/Little Gun” is the mantra I follow.
The way I figure it, if I have to fight something big enough that .22 does not cut it I want to power and range of a rifle.
Ammo is fairly compatible in size/weight to large hand guns in the greater scheme of things.
This is where the RFB fits in really well. It is compact and lightweight. Easily stored and carried and if needed it will perform as a battle rifle or to take game that is too big for the .22.
I am in Northern CA and my options for bugouts is slimmer than most. If I take off in any direction I am going to find good spots every 10 miles but a lot of nothing inbetween.
For the RFB it would end up in the pack 99% of the time until I find a base I like and want to hold it.
Then it would stay out and with me most of the time.
I have thought of the matching pistol to rifle combination however there are drawbacks to this solution which mainly come from the rifle selections. I have yet to see a really good ‘survival’ style .357 rifle.
The thought was to get one and take it through the ringer for survival and then match it to a pistol.
Issues being that .357 is not a good small game round, definately not good for birds, decent all around for medium to large game and ok on larger than that.
As per the article, the odds of you needing and using the larger gun is slim compared to snares, .22′s, traps, fishing, etc.
The larger gun should be compact and ready to go and your secondary weapon should be lighter and used more often.
.22 is the choice for this.
For the larger gun you have tons of choices but for this left hander the RFB in .308 is just about written for me compared to almost everything else out there.
Granted, I could do just fine with my .30-30, my shotgun, my pointed stick with a mean face written on it, etc.
You do not need the RFB to survive in any stectch of the imagination.
If you are in that niche like me though it is very appealing and even if you are not you have to admit that it does some things that other firearms simply can’t.
I agree that the RFB fills a niche for many of us that nothing else fills. For me, it’s the mid length model. About the same length and weight as my AK, but with a longer barrel than my STG-58. I’m not sure I like the ejection system of the RFB but I haven’t had the chance to try it out yet to see. I don’t like to make judgements without adequate information.
I have a 9mm bullpup so I have an idea of how well they handle. It’s my favorite plinker. While I admire the shortness of the 18 inch model, you couldn’t give me a short barrelled anything. I don’t ride around in Humvs and tanks.
I wish 223 fit my requirements better. There are definately a lot of nice guns to choose from. The lighter weight, reduced recoil and ability to carry more ammo is a strong incentive. But I have guns in both calibers and I feel the .308 meets my needs better.
Right now my biggest question is accuracy of the RFB. I don’t expect it to be a target rifle, but I hope it will be accurate enough to use at long range. Especially considering that it’ll be dependant on optical sights for the most part.
Note to Jida: Before you commit to packing that much weight around, please read this article about backpacking with guns. It’s written by someone with a lot of experience at it and is very thought provoking. It changed my mind on several things.
http://www.tacticalgearreview.com/wordpress/2006/07/the-backpack-survivalist-by-mike-rostov-2
My appologies to the mods if posting links is forbidden. You’ll get no complaints from me if you need to delete the link or entire post. Thanks.
Pros:
1) Good cartridge which has one of the best versatility ranges of any ammo readily available.
2) Interchangable ammo type with a matching bolt gun.
3) Light, compact and out of the way if needed.
4) Left or right hand shooting for clearing corners, great option for left handers.
5) KelTec has a lifetime warranty on all of their firearms and will fix it now or years from now if needed.
6) Avid close community who know the guns better than KelTec in some cases.
Cons:
1) Strong kick which will cause minute of flinch accuracy problems for smaller people.
2) All classic training done for current firearms does not apply to this configuration and can cause some discomfort on safety.
3) Looks and cartridge can confuse people on its purpose and can lead to a let down if purposed incorrectly.
When you start looking at a semi auto in the U.S. you start around $1,000 and then work your way down to the $500′s and up to the $2,000.
If you are fine with 223 then you have many options and configurations to cover a wide array of conditions. You are limiting yourself balistically with this choice but everything else is far more open.
In 308 you have few options for left handed folks, few options for lighter weight, few options for semi auto and few options in carbines.
The thought appears to be that if you are going to go 308 then you are using that round for an expected list of things (long range, game hunting, etc.).
In my case this rifle fits a niche that I cannot currently fill. I am looking at a 3 gun set outside of my hunting gear.
A long range sub MOA rifle, a matching semi auto rifle and a 22 pistol.
The long range rifle is meant for everything outside of self defense. The semi is meant to help in carrying 1 kind of ammo and for self defense in general. The .22 is for ‘quantity’ ammo carrying and as a primary small game getter with low noise output.
If I were to pack all 3 (me being strong and used to larger weights) the long range rifle would be slung, the semi would be packed and the .22 would be in a holster.
To date, I could not match a rifle to the semi, keep the size and weight reasonable and have them in a caliber that was common and versatile.
308 is the right caliber in my opinion. I have no desire to get into a protracted firefight with anyone. I would not carry more than 100 rounds in 308 since it is only to,
1) Shoot big game.
2) Shoot 2 legged game.
Since this would be rare for me in most cases both rifles would be used sparingly. This is also for basic trips and not for ‘survival mode’ where you start putting your goods underground and wearing tin foil helmets.
The .22 allows for me to carry 1000 rounds without much worry, most likely 500 at the most. This is the main ‘survival’ item and would be used to harvest most game if needed.
With all this written down, and sorry for the length, my goal is maybe the same as some and different than others.
The RFB fills a void which there is currently not a viable option without giving up something else or adding something I do not need.