Machine Gun Shoot Ricochet – .950 JDJ Into Man’s Leg

Last weekend, a man attending a machine gun shoot was served up more than just a little belt fed action. Positioned 200 – 300 yards from the targets and backstop, the unlucky onlooker “received” a ricochet from what appears to be a .950 JDJ. The round struck the man in the ankle with enough force to break bones and rip through a muck boot.  All things being equal, the man and other shoot participants got very lucky – a hit on a more vital part of the body could have easily been fatal.

TFB’s Hrachya H. was able to look at the above image and make the JDJ determination – a round I admittedly never knew existed.

What’s a .950 JDJ?

950 JDJ cases are approximately 70 mm in length, and are based on a 20×110mm case shortened and necked up to accept the .950 in (24.1 mm) bullet. Projectiles are custom-made and most commonly weigh 3,600 grains (230 g) which is 8.2 ounces or over half a pound.

As its name implies, rifles chambered for the cartridge have a groove diameter of 0.950 in (24.1 mm). SSK received a “Sporting Use Exception” to de-regulate the rifles. Thus, in the United States, they can be purchased and owned like any other Title I rifle by an American citizen at age 18. The rifles use McMillan stocks and extraordinarily thick Krieger barrels bearing an 18 lb (8.2 kg) muzzle brake. Overall, depending on options, the rifles weigh from 85 to 120 pounds (39 to 54 kg) and are therefore only useful for shooting from a bench rest or heavy bipod.Despite the weight, recoil is significant and shooters must be sure to choose components (i.e., scopes and bipods) that can handle the abuse. The sheer size, weight, and power of these rifles make them rather impractical for hunting use. SSK only manufactured three of these rifles and as of 2014 no longer produces the ammunition.

Where the ricochet stops…



Here’s a brief excerpt from the original discussion on ar15.com:

A friend attended the machine gun shoot at Southington Offroad Park (SOR) in Garrettsville, Ohio yesterday with some friends of his and ended up taking home an unexpected souvenir. While watching the shoot, he felt a sudden serious pain in his lower leg like someone smashed it with a bat… It left him in a cast with an avulsion fracture and one hell of a bruise, but at least he got a cool story to tell girls at the bar.

What happened to the round?

Apparently one of the staff or volunteers at the event took the round from him, while telling him he wasn’t allowed to have it. He said he was in too much pain to argue and could not walk after them when they started to walk away.

So, how does a projectile this size return in the direction from where it originated with enough force to break a man’s leg? Let’s take a look at the alleged scene:

(I say alleged, not because I don’t believe it didn’t happen, but because I wasn’t there and I have a feeling things are about to get legal.)

To set the scene:



Ricochet

Hmm, a concave rock wall that looks like it will reflect rounds back toward the firing line. After reviewing the NRA’s range building guidelines, I don’t think I remember seeing anything about a curved, hard surface being used as a backstop. A gofundme.com account is being setup to help support the now out of work painter who is the sole provider for his two year old son. Allegedly, the range/event organizer is refusing to pay for medical bills.

Again, I’d say this man was very “lucky” that his injuries were not life threatening, but from the looks of the location pictures, it appears this incident could have been avoided with a professionally built berm.





Pete

LE – Science – OSINT.
On a mission to make all of my guns as quiet as possible.
Pete.M@staff.thefirearmblog.com
Twitter: @gunboxready
Instagram: @tfb_pete
https://www.instagram.com/tfb_pete/


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  • Old Tofu

    sounds like the guy grabbing the round was trying to “lose” some evidence

    • IN Dave

      I am guessing once the police got involved the round found its way to an evidence bag pretty quick.

      • 0hw0rd

        Law enforcement was not notified, so there is no evidence bag.

  • Bill

    I dunno, strange pooh happens at ranges. That’s one of the reasons I’m confident he executed a waiver in some way, shape or form while there. As for the round, I keep all the evidence of anything weird for documentary purposes, like when a fusee cooked off a round that was laying on the ground under it.

    • Waivers aren’t a get out of jail free card for the range or organizer. It doesn’t protect them from their own negligence. Which anyone that has been shooting guns for any length of time knows that firing guns into rocks is dangerous.

      My father, a JD, liked to say that you can take a executed waiver and wipe your ass with it. Because that is often all it is good for in a lawsuit.

      • Flounder

        Waivers just eliminate certain arguements in court. Usually. Like he can’t say he had no idea shooting guns is dangerous.

        But yes, you are right in that they aren’t a get out of jail free card, they do not cover everything. They don’t even cover the majority of things. But they do cover some stupid things. and make it just a little bit harder for someone to win a suit.

        • Gary Kirk

          Waivers are normally meant to make people think that they have no recourse if something happens.. That’s B.S..

      • Bill

        Essentially, the only thing worse than a waiver, is no waiver. It’d be great if we could all ply by gentlemens’ rules, but my legal weasels insist on a 9 page waiver, hold-harmless clause and covenant not to sue that takes a half hour to read an explain, all because guns.

        Ny dad was a lawyer also, and if he were alive I think he’d agree with Willie the Shake: First, we kill all the lawyers (para).

  • TheNotoriousIUD
  • Triplanetary

    Wasn’t allowed to have an expended round ? A piece of metal ? In other words he confiscated evidence. Somebody wasn’t supposed to have something.

    • Bill

      Just cause something hits you doesn’t means you get to keep it, otherwise car crashes would be really interesting.

      • BoomRoasted

        Yes, but a good attorney could argue that you no longer have property rights to a round once you fire it (unless fired into a gel block, etc with the intention to collect the round) due to the fact that there is no reasonable expectation to recover that round once fired. Similar to how law enforcement can search your trash without a warrant when you set it out to the curb.

        Boom. Roasted.

        • Bill

          Anything that starts “yes, but…” is a sucker’s argument. An equally good attorney could argue that you don’t give up property rights to a fired bullet anymore than you give up property rights to a struck baseball or golfball

          • HSR47

            There’s a key difference though: With a typical sportsball, the ball is still in play once it’s been hit or thrown — you hit/throw it, and then continue play with the same ball.

            With bullets, you fire them and don’t re-use them — they’re pretty much once and done.

            The expectations are clearly different.

          • mazkact

            I cast new bullets from range lead in pistol cells.

          • HSR47

            That’s my point: Much of the lead you have reclaimed from backstops was fired by other people. They abandoned it, and you retrieved it for your own use.

          • noob

            Unless you used to shoot at Wade’s Eastside Guns in 2008, where customers “volunteered” to help clean out the berm in exchange for store credit. The range kept the lead, except for what the volunteers could carry out in their lungs. Wade’s got in trouble. so so much trouble.

          • Phillip Cooper

            More info please? Why is the word “volunteered” in quotes?

          • noob

            Wade’s has since cleaned up their act according to the Seattle Times. But in 2008 they were topping the list for lead exposure.
            A person doing hazardous material disposal and getting a voucher in consideration for their time sounds a lot like a employee and not a volunteer and yet respirators effective against lead were initially not provided by the employer.

            30 cal gal references the story in a blog post urging shooters and ranges to take the initiative limit lead exposure to avoid giving gun grabbers “more ammo” to argue for the restriction of shooting sports.

          • Random Disabled Person

            People don’t usually throw the balls, hockey pucks,etc. back that land in the stands…. Nothing is done about that, so not even “fruits to vegetables” for comparisons.

            Running out on the field or green way is wrong but if your ball goes in someone’s window, getting it back may not happen.

            Personally I think the taking of had ill itent, or at least misguided if trying to see for why it happened. General when you get hit with something or shot you tend to have souvenir.

            All things said, the shooter is probably feeling very low right now.

            America, where people have insurance for medical care and still have to sue because of the co-payment is so high……

          • rjackparis

            so, pretty much, the property hit him in the ankle. and broke it.

          • BoomRoasted

            Any argument that attacks an opponent by calling them a “sucker” is an ad hominem argument(which is a logical fallacy, by the way). Your comparison to a baseball and a golf ball is a faulty analogy(another logical fallacy…). Lets say you’re argument was correct, if you ever shot someone and they ran away from you with the bullet inside of them, then they could be charged with theft of property. Because clearly they stole your bullet!!!!

          • IN Dave

            LMAO, that is awesome. If I ever have to defend myself with a firearm that is how I am going to report the shooting. “Send help, somebody is trying to steal my bullet”. They will think it is a petty theft and the perp will bleed out before they get there…….3 1/2 hours later.

          • Repoman3737

            We need to start referring to criminals shot in the act and who attempt to flee as bullet thieves. He caught my bullets with his chest and head and refused to give them back.. I like the sound of it.

          • Bill

            The bullet gets placed into evidence once the surgeon recovers if, and a court decides its disposition after the case is exhausted. If you get shot, you don’t get to keep the bullet until and if the judge says so. You don’t have a property right to it until then.

            Range management *might* have let him keep the souvenir, but as this thread demonstrates everyone immediately thinks litigation, so it’s only prudent on their part to hold on to it.

            What are you going to do if a plane crashes into your house, start flight school?

          • BoomRoasted

            I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to ego on this. You keep wanting to compare a fired bullet (something disposable) to other objects that are not disposable, and it just doesn’t work. Just because you owned something at one point, doesn’t mean you always retain ownership. Do you still own the unburnt powder that left the barrel and settled on the ground of the range? What about any excess lubricant that left the firearm and hit the ground? Do you have a right to retrieve “your property” (the bullets) from the berm of a private range?

          • Phillip Cooper

            “What are you going to do if a plane crashes into your house, start a flight school?”
            Well, with the plane being a twisted mess I don’t think there would be much success with this approach…

          • James O Donnell

            Bill, I get the feeling you are not a lawyer.

          • Bill

            I am the son of a lawyer. I’ve been a cop since 1984. I’ve been a range and training manager for 18 years I’ve been a state certified police firearms instructor for 20. I’ve been in a courtroom once or twice and have occasionally chatted with attorneys.

            So you are a lawyer?

          • Jim Smith

            There is a court ruling that the person who catches a home run ball gets to keep it. Footballs have to be returned to the team.

          • John1943

            There is another ruling that golf balls recovered from lakes by divers are still owned by the golfer and may not be sold to other golfers.

          • Phillip Cooper

            Which part of “reasonable expectation of recovery” is unclear?

            If it’s your ball, why yes, you do expect to get it back after play.

            The same is not the case with rounds of ammunition.

      • BR549

        And let’s say that the round tore through the man’s boot and stayed inside. Does that give the range people the right to rummage through the man’s clothing to grab the evidence?

      • carlcasino

        Interesting Point ! With the driverless cars who is going to be liable. In my State I buy liability on Me , the alleged driver and collision, comprehensive on the vehicle. Then the insurance Co figures that age and condition of both car and driver are factored in ( Mo MOney). At the range YOU are obliged to sign a waiver stating YOU will follow all range rules and if a shooter to exercise due care for yourself and others. I was told once that there are no accidents but circumstances sometime have unpredictable outcomes. I think that is Lawyerese for your on your on. take the time to read your owners manual for your lawnmower. 20 pages of cautions, beware’s and two pages of put gas in here, prime here and pull here. I’m not saying let’s g kill all the Stupid people, Let’s just remove all the waning labels and let the problem sort itself out. The range is good place to start.

    • Amplified Heat

      Don’t worry; there’s pictures, it will reappear during pre-trial discovery, or someone will be going to jail even earlier than expected.

  • tony

    anything at or above 20mm is a cannon round

    • Porty1119

      Agreed.

    • A cannon is meant to fire explosive shells; these are just toddler-sized solid bullets.

      • Giolli Joker

        Not really. All APFSDS have no explosive payload and ancient cannons were shooting hunks of lead.
        Usually military arms 20mm and above are deemed cannons although if shoulder fired they are rifles… this one is not a military weapon, it can be just a big f****ng rifle.

        • .45

          I thought cast iron was the norm for old school cannon…

          • Giolli Joker

            Well, I was a bit vague with ancient cannons, thinking more at American Civil War guns.
            Let’s replace “metal” with “lead”.

      • jcitizen

        Huh? I’ve see explosive .50 cal bullets let alone 20mm on up. In fact the Hotchkiss 37 mm revolving cannon ( which I suspect this bullet might actually be from) used to shoot shells with gun cotton explosive in it.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    Really? That band-aid wasn’t the correct immediate action for that injury huh? Weird.

    Also, that round and that range to me, is “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”. Hey let’s shoot this stupid round into a stupid curved surface – WCGW!?

    • Gary Kirk

      You’ve never heard of the Band aid on a bullet wound treatment??

    • valorius

      Everyone knows the proper course of action is to rub some dirt on it and walk it off.

      • Mike S

        No, you’re supposed to piss on it and THEN rub the dirt on it and walk it off.

  • MrBrassporkchop

    God that’s like a round from a 40k Bolter.

    • Todd

      It’s actually bigger. Bolters are .75.

      • Mr._Exterminatus

        Depends which source you use, some are .75 and some are .998

        • Todd

          I go all the way back to Rogue Trader… I’m the definition of an OFWG neckbeard!

          • Xanderbach

            .75 is basically 12ga…

          • valorius

            You ever play Space Hulk?

          • Todd

            Many moons ago, when the spamalopes roamed the plains in huge herds and machineguns weren’t functionally illegal!

          • valorius

            I should be more specific, Space Hulk, vengeance of the Blood Angels, on 3DO. In it’s time, it was one of the greatest video games i’ve ever played.

        • Warren Ellis

          Presumably those are heavy bolters. The .998 ones. It’s the Astartes bolters that fire .75 rounds. The mortal/human-sized ones fire smaller calibers from what I remember.

        • Out of the Blue

          They straightened it out to where.75 is the pistols, boltguns and storm bolters, and .998 for the heavy bolters. Of course, with all the new primaris stuff they announced I’m not sure where those guns fit in.

    • valorius

      “Damn, my bolter is jammed!”

  • Destro Yakisoba

    The ATF gives a SPORTING EXEMPTION to this and a few other cartridges. “It does not classify this cartridge as a destructive device” pg 412 Cartridges of The World 15th edition.

    • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

      Yup, but you can’t have a 12ga “street sweeper” or striker-12 because they’re destructive devices.

      Stupid ATF.

      • HSR47

        The “sporting purposes exemption” in this case basically boils down to “We recognize that this has absolutely no military application, and that it’s weight, bulk, and cost mean that it is unlikely to ever become a tool of crime.”

        Streetsweepers on the other hand, were light enough, cheap enough, and looked scary enough to be branded as potential tools of criminals.

        TLDR: One was easy to use to scare the masses, and the other really isn’t, thus why one was determined to be a DD, and the other was not.

    • Amplified Heat

      What, are you suggesting a lump of copper that barely cracked a dude’s ankle bone should be classified as a Destructive Device alongside hand grenades? What’s crazier is the energy levels involved around crowds at drag racing strips & the number of parts that go flying as part of that largely unregulated sport.

      • jcitizen

        All it has to be is over .50 cal to be considered such. Because shotgun slugs are bigger, though, the sportsman exemption had to be twixed into the regs, or the whole law would quickly fall apart.

    • jcitizen

      I bet they reconsider now. I never knew the ATF would give exemptions like that, or I would have made a hand cannon years ago! 😉

  • Gary Kirk

    Idc, how much pain I’m in.. I AM KEEPING THIS ROUND!!! Your ass just shot me, inadvertently yes, but still.. Someone’s got some ‘splainin to do..

  • noob

    So… how much would it cost to fire a belt fed version of a weapon chambered in 950 JDJ for 10 seconds at 650rpm? (Not including shoulder reconstruction)

    • iksnilol

      At least 12 dollars.

    • valorius

      About 1/4 what it costs to fire a 20mm Vulcan cannon for the same amount of time.

    • Howard

      Last time I looked, it will cost you about a Buck Three-Eighty to accomplish what you ask. 😉
      ($1.3/80 with the decimal point properly located.) 🙂

  • Rick O’Shay

    Sucks for the guy. But now I have a new unicorn round for my caliber collection.

  • “Allegedly, the range/event organizer is refusing to pay for medical bills.”

    Yeah I would pay up if I were them, it will be cheaper than a lawsuit that they are likely to lose. Liability waivers don’t protect you against your own negligence. And holding a machine gun shoot shooting against a rock wall can easily be construed as negligent by a descent attorney.

    • Jared Vynn

      “Decent” attorney I assume is what you meant.

      • Cory C

        No, a descent attorney. One that spelunks and cave dives. 🙂

        • Gary Kirk

          Most attorneys are on a descent into Hell..

          • Smedley54

            And most attorneys will tell you that.

        • El Duderino

          Or one that removes odors.

        • Scott Connors

          JAG for 18th Airborne Corps?

      • Yeah probably, stupid phone.

      • noob

        A decadent attorney would do as well

        • georgesteele

          Redundant.

    • Amplified Heat

      Pretty sure he/they will be getting sued regardless, so why should they agree to pay up front? Court system will ensure the victim gets what he has coming (and then some), which is certain to be a lot given the value of these toys.

      • Often the organizer isn’t the owner of the guns involved.

        Why pay up before getting sued?
        1. Almost all such payments come with agreements not to sue.
        2. Lower attorney fees, maybe a few hours to write up an agreement vs lots and lots of hours to take a case like this to trail.
        3. The victim are often more reasonable at this point if you appear remorseful and make a reasonable attempt to make them whole. Where as if I have to sue you I will be out for blood.
        4. Even if you are sued, judges and juries will look much for favorably if you’ve already made a reasonable attempt at making them whole. And even if you lose there is less of a chance of getting hit with a massive punitive damages award.

        • Random Disabled Person

          Sadly, if they were to pay it gets viewed as admission of guilt/responsibility/everything else. That defensive stance does more harm than good but that is the system and how insurance companies have rigged the game. Why spend the money fixing the injury so it can heal right, when an atttempt to weasle causing a person to not get the right care and for the injury to heal in the best possible way, causing there to bigger payouts and lives damaged to ruined, might cause them not pursue or to give up. When they lawyer up requiring the injured to get lawyers and no one “”wins”” in court.

          Which causes us to have hospitals(they facility, the doctors, the ambulance,the various companies doing labs and xrays/mri/etc there is so many bills for one injury it is absurd) not getting paid, medical bills going to collecting ( ruining the injured credit ratings) debt collectors stressing and harassing the person who already has full plate with the lost of ability of work, let alone the additional medical recovery stress. until you have loss some physical ability it is hard to grasp, the worse the loss, the more mental crap you have to deal with. The events have away of wreck marriages and lives. Let us hope (and pray if you choose to) that their time is short in the horrible place/system.

          • Bill

            Indeed. It’s a sad state of affairs when trying to do the right thing up front can be used against you.

          • h4rr4r

            How? By admitting the truth?

            They are at fault and they know it. Not paying is just weaseling out of it.

          • Bill

            At fault for what? Is it reasonable to expect a ricochet from a bizarre, obscure round to head straight at somebody’s ankle? How many other shoots had been held there without incident? What kind of backstop is it? There are hundreds of kinds of “rocks” with varying hardness.

            What is the “truth?” Your version? His version? The shooters? The range management?

          • h4rr4r

            At fault for the unsafe range. It is a solid rock wall.

            It does not matter how many shoots have been held without incident. That is called dumb luck. Having gotten away with it should have been considered a blessing and the issue resolved before someone got hurt.

            The truth is a proper range would have a proper professionally built backstop.

          • Bill

            I think you have the dumb luck part reversed. The round and his ankle occupying the same place at the same instant in space and time is dumb/bad luck.

            I can’t tell what kind of rock that backstop is, but clearly it’s been used without incident before. The idea that every range would have a professionally built backstop is sweet, but there is no way it’s feasible. Economics being what the are, sometimes you do the best you can with what you have. Beaucoup ranges would have to close, and even “professionally” built ranges suffer incidents. You go into this game trying to reduce risk to as close to zero as possible, all the time knowing that you will never reach absolute zero risk.

            As a point of reference, I have all the NRA manuals, and several dozen other references, from .mil to the EPA on range design and management. The ranges I’ve run have never been near perfect, but as close as I can make them with the resources I have available.

          • h4rr4r

            No, that is the result of their negligence. This was a predictable result.

            Many people get away with stupid things, that they failed to get away with it again changes nothing. Had their been a proper berm this would not have happened.

            Many ranges should be closed. Plenty of them are accidents waiting to happen. Economics don’t enter into it. If you can’t afford to do it safely, you can’t afford to do it.

            Find where in the NRA manuals it suggests a rock wall shaped to reflect projectiles.

    • Don

      Pay up if for no other reason than to keep the spotlight off yourself. Just imagine all the negative PR they are going to get if this hits the courts. Especially since a good attorney will have the individual who fired the shot, the owner of the gun if he wasn’t the one shooting, the event organizer and the range owner all listed on the suit. I can see the CNN headline now “Spectator Gets Shot With Baseball Sized Machine Gun Bullet, Owner Steals The Evedence From The Illegal Owned Machine Gun”… 🙂 🙂 The anti-gun crowd will eat this one up.

      • Don

        And yes, everything in the article’s title in my above post was spelled incorrectly on purpose.

  • Mystick

    Somebody is getting paid….

  • 22winmag

    FIREARMS not politics, tourniquets, tank museums, Brazilian military tactics, Indian small arms procurement, knives, flashlights, ricochets, and anything else I forgot.

    • Destro Yakisoba

      Luxury Jihad Bentleys

  • Gary Kirk

    It finally dawned on me what I was thinking of when I first saw this.. Anyone else remember the video of the guy shooting a fifty at steel straight on at like 100? Where the round comes back and takes his HP out..

    • Samuel Millwright

      Yup

      That guy was trying really hard to win a stupid prize from playing stupid games…

      The mark twain quote about fools and lightning is definitely applicable to this conversation too.

    • ozzallos .

      >Round strikes Player.
      >Round crits Player for 235 HP.

  • Darrell

    The arfcom thread said it was from a 40mm Bofors.

    • Gus Butts

      Maybe if you have the hands of a giant. Judging by the pictures with the rounds in the hands, it is really around 1″ wide… not 40mm.

      • Sand

        I have average-ish sized hands, and the last digit of my index finger is about one inch long. The base of the bullet appears to be longer than the last digit of his index finger, so I would guess that it’s something larger than .950, but it’s difficult to say for sure.

      • Amplified Heat

        Looks closer to something slightly larger than 1.5″ to me, which suggests 37mm or 40mm range. Those rounds are infinitely more common than JDJ as well, at least as far as commonality among civvies of these items goes. The bullets are likely the same custom-turned solid brass jobs seeing as any other ammo is likely AP or unavailable, which would explain the visual similarity.

    • jcitizen

      I think it was a 37mm Hotchkiss myself.

  • felix

    I thought this thing was deadly

    • Swarf

      It killed a cliff before breaking a man’s ankle and ruining his sweet mud mashers, what more do you want?

  • Kelly Jackson

    This is the sort of round I imagine when the social justice crowd schreeches that police should only fire one shot at a suspect.

    • Kevin Craig

      Given their hits:misses ratio, I think Airsoft pellets would be a wiser choice.

  • Gary Kirk
    • Giolli Joker

      Nope. That is a shoulder dislocation device.

    • This is my desire.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      Just in case a Russian tank breaks in your place.

    • El Duderino

      Comes with a Ford F650 with 12″ of lift and a set of plastic nuts danglin’ off the trailer hitch.

  • He wasn’t allowed to have it? It fecking hit him. It wasn’t allowed to hit him! I’m sorry, you can’t have your projectile back if you hit me with it. But allow my to hit you with some of mine…

  • Gun Fu Guru

    A cliff face is not an adequate backstop.

    • Well, it’s in the back, but it sure ain’t stoppin’ much.

  • Amplified Heat

    Wow, those guys shooting the ~120$/rnd items can sure be stingy when it suits them. In all seriousness, I don’t blame the event people or victim or anyone else for being icy toward each other; this is absolutely a situation where legal action is warranted, and necessary.

    And yeah, shooting into a vertical rock face seems kind of stupid by itself.

  • wetcorps

    He can now be known as the man who got shot with .950 JDJ and survived.

    Sucks about his job though.

    • Amplified Heat

      I understood it to be a 37mm or something like that, but at those energy levels it scarcely matters.

      • iksnilol

        About 24 mm.

        • Amplified Heat

          I don’t actually think this is a JDJ at all. Not only is that gun incredibly rare, even among cannon enthusiasts (they’ve made only a handful), that slug is clearly a good bit larger than 1″ across. 37mm is about 1.5″, which is closer to this slug. While it likely expanded some hitting that wall, this solid brass lump is more rigid than not, so I doubt it could swell to the 1.75″-2″ diameter it appears to have in that palm picture. There’s a lot more 37mm Pak anti-tank rifles out there than custom one-off elephant guns.

          • jcitizen

            More like a Hotchkiss of one variety or another, looks like a revolving cannon round to me.

  • Bill

    Really kids, lets get a grip. I’m sure some armchair geologist will identify the “rock” face, and lots of ranges are back country quarry pits, dumps and other less than great facilities, Not all of us have access to Whittington or FLETC, and I’ve gotten owies even at similar ranges.

    Shooting is intrinsically dangerous; its supposed to be. And this isn’t your run of the mill round. He’s got a great story to tell, maybe the range will cover some of his costs, maybe not. And “legal action” is by no means certain or simple. If you are on one of my ranges it’s with the express understanding that firearms pose hazards and that you voluntarily assume the risks by maintaining your presence there.

  • Tom A (Kaos5G)

    I shoot 3 gun at that place, one of the few close 3gunnation club courses. Hope that fellow recovers quick and hope that range doesn’t get closed down.

  • Swarf

    “Wasn’t allowed to have it”?

    Balls. No way you’re taking that souvenir from me, busted ankle or no.

    Especially since it is also evidence.

  • IN Dave

    He may not be allowed to keep it for two reasons. 1st if he went by ambulance most EMTs around me wouldn’t allow something like that in their truck for fear it was live ordinance. Second the police would end up taking it as evidence anyways. But not to fear he will get it back in the end. Even a Haitian community college trained lawyer will be able to get the round back when it is all said and done. “My client would be more than happy for you to keep the round as long as you add an extra 0 to the end of the settlement check”

  • .45

    “… rather impractical for hunting”?

    Watch me. Them squirrels ain’t going know what hit ’em…

    • Howard

      Yup!
      Ima holdin’ yer beer and gonna watch dis!
      GIT ‘ER DONE!
      LMAO

  • Anonymoose
  • Jeff Heeszel

    Pretty sad that they cared more about recovering bullet than caring for his injuries. Looks like a pretty hinky MG shoot to me.

  • valorius

    I was at an indoor range several years ago and had a 115gr Corbon JHP+P hit the backstop and come straight back and whack me in the chest. Felt like i got hit by a boxer, and left a nasty bruise for about 2 weeks.

  • Harry Buttle

    I’d argue that you could have stopped this with a pile of sand and a tractor with a bucket attachment to push it up against the wall. someone cut corners and now it is likely to get expensive.

    • phuzz

      Exactly, how hard is it just to pile sand/dirt up at the bottom of the cliff?

  • Some Rabbit

    Having been hit in the shin by a ricocheting .45 ACP FMJ while testing kevlar samples I can sympathize, although my bruise wasn’t as severe. He was lucky to be so far away. My ‘whoopsie’ happened while standing just 15 feet from the target.

  • Ethan E

    Someone’s getting their ass sued.

  • jonp

    Owwwwww……Who is shooting that large of a projectile at a solid rock wall????? It might not have been supposed to be there but it sure as heck wasn’t snuck in. Everyone knew it was on the line. I fully understand the ranges pov. You always enter a range with the knowledge that you are assuming all risks short of outrageous malfeasance on someone elses part but they should have let him keep the round. I’d frame it next to the Muck on the wall.

  • MeaCulpa

    The ammunition/calaliber, is it used for anything useful or is it more of a “just because” sort of thing. I know very few riffles where chambered for it but did it have som intended niche use?

    • jcitizen

      I personally think it was a Hotchiss round which had military usefulness at the turn of the 20th century.

  • EHW2

    “All things being equal”
    I’ve never heard that expression before, did somebody steal all your “considered” and you couldn’t run to the store to get more?
    It doesn’t make any sense.

    • The_Champ

      It’s my understanding is that is a pretty common phrase. I’ve heard it said/read it many times.

  • Sean

    There isn’t going to be a criminal case. This is purely a civil matter. And it will be handled quietly and quickly.

    • jcitizen

      If the victim is smart he’ll settle with the range’s insurance company for what the lawyers fees would have been, but I’d refuse to make a statement, other than payment makes whole, in that deal also.

  • Marc

    All this talk about litigation and property rights. C’mon people, what about that crazy caliber? Who designed that and why? What purpose? Never seen anything like that.

  • you realize that painters are generally contractors, not full-time employees with benefits and whatnot, right? And that they get paid only when they actually work?

    • 0hw0rd

      He recently started his own painting business, so he is a brand new small-business owner. Starting a new business is difficult enough, but even more so when you are unable to work and drive revenue for the business. Add in the fact that he is (was at the time of impact) in between health insurance policies due to the switch of going from being a covered employee to a small-business owner. He is a tough guy and a damn hard worker, so I know he will be fine in the long run – but things will be very difficult for him as he does everything in his power to provide for his two year old over the next few months.

  • Phillip Cooper

    A bunch of (likely drunk) rednecks gathering to shoot machineguns on a “range” that is nothing more than a large plot of land without attention paid to proper range construction.

    Hmm. Yep. sounds about right.

  • 0hw0rd

    Unfortunately, some information needs to be kept off of the Internet until decisions are made regarding any possible legal action that may or may not result from this.

  • h4rr4r

    The shooter would have believed this to be a safe range. Unless he aimed at the victim, he is not liable.

    • James O Donnell

      The shooter’s “belief” is irrelevant.

      • h4rr4r

        Unlikely from a liability standpoint.

  • Dave

    You can tell from the imprint on the mucks that it was keyholing. It is amazing that it didn’t do more damage. On the other hand, imagine if it had hit point on or base on. The applied force would have then been more concentrated. Holi Kow he was lucky. If he was 200-300 yds back from the cliff and they were firing from (say) a hundred yards, that slug must have been moving pretty fast.

    I’m sure the rifle made a major boom with the sound bouncing off the cliff face. It sure is sad when a fun event turns bad.

  • Laionidas

    The guys sure was lucky. Imperial heavy bolter rounds are designed to explode upon achieving some degree of penetration -even if it is a mere muck boot- and they rarely fail.

  • Jamie Clemons

    If someone had a steel plate up for a target at the wrong angle that could also cause a ricochet.

  • Felipe Mendoza

    Shoot, my wife and I were at Jackson Arms indoor range and finished shooting, looking at our target standing in our lane , she gets hit in the cheek and safety glass by a ricochet. “It was like getting hit in the face by a bat” cut, black eye and swollen cheek for two weeks. How unsafe can it be standing in a safe zone.

  • bthomas

    Bad bad business. Victim needs to put a really good lawyer on the case. The folk runing the shoot, etc. need to just face the music and pay out. The longer they wait … the worse it will get. If they don’t have enough insurance … they are in for serious trouble.

  • Lonnie

    Did anybody else notice that the projectile is NOT a .975? The size compared to the hand holding it makes me think it is closer to 40mm than 24.1mm. Compare the fired projectile to the second photo below it and you will see.

  • BryanS

    I’ve run the trails at Southington before, and sections of that range curve up and out. I always thought that a high fired round would deflect down. There is a section of trail that runs along the clif edge above, and seen down into the range (which was closed for the day).

  • Donald Darr
  • Mikial

    An occupational hazard. If you play with the big boy’s toys, you take your chances like everyone else. No basis for any litigation here, despite what some of the comments here are saying. If you don;t like risks, take up knitting.

  • Mattie Dimes

    Guess my .450 bushy build is about to be to canceled. Who makes an upper so I can slap this on my host?

  • Shawn

    His go fund me has been up for 10 days and our community has donated a whopping $350 dollars.