Australian Cops to receive Patrol Rifles

Numerous Australian media outlets have reported that the New South Wales legislature is opening up the budget to accommodate patrol rifles within NSW Police Force patrol officers. This would mean that similar to a number of Law Enforcement entities in the United States, the “cop on the beat” would not only have access to his sidearm, but also a 5.56x45mm NATO rifle in his vehicle if need be. Already picked is an AR15 platform rifle, however who the supplier will be is unknown at the current time. Some articles mentioned acquiring Colt or Armswest LLC AR15s, however, this has to be out of more speculation than anything legitimate. The operational need for these changes was brought into play by the Cafe Lindt siege in late 2014, but was further pushed by events such as the Paris attacks and recent active shooter events in the United Kingdom. Australian Law Enforcement is very similar to their British counterparts in that the patrol officers are not armed with long guns as their standard operating procedure (most British cops don’t even have firearms). Thus, when dealing with an active or barricaded shooter, British and Australian LE officers are often at a threat disadvantage due to the small arms involved.

The use of lethal force has changed also, but that’s a political realm I don’t want to touch. However, I will leave this paragraph here, from an RoE perspective-

The NSW coroner who investigated the 2014 Lindt Cafe siege found snipers had a 10-minute window during which they could have taken a kill shot at Man Haron Monis but they weren’t sure of their legal justification to use lethal force.

The video below from the Bataclan Theater massacre shows this dynamic brilliantly. In that, you have brave Law Enforcement personnel trying to do their best to just barely contain the situation because of the severe disadvantage of their handguns versus the attacker’s rifles.



Miles

Infantry Marine, based in the Midwest. Specifically interested in small arms history, development, and usage within the MENA region and Central Asia. To that end, I run Silah Report, a website dedicated to analyzing small arms history and news out of MENA and Central Asia.

Please feel free to get in touch with me about something I can add to a post, an error I’ve made, or if you just want to talk guns. I can be reached at miles@tfb.tv


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  • Joshua Graham

    Interesting, but a bad sign. Of course neoliberalism demands more tools for the security state rather than attacking the problem at the source and expelling the people responsible.

    • UWOTM8

      You said it, man. But why would they do what actually works when they can just manufacture crises so that people will vote more power to the state? I hate to say it, but did nobody learn from the Star Wars Prequels? (Sorry, had to do it)

    • Gun Fu Guru

      I think you forget that “expelling the people responsible” sounds good on paper but isn’t practical. Most places — like the United States — do not authorize the government to forcibly remove the unwilling. Additionally, this touches on the area of “thought” crimes and pre-crimes which are not possible to accurately predict.

      • Joshua Graham

        It could be done. But if it couldn’t legally be done, then the laws should be changed.

        • Gun Fu Guru

          That would require a constitutional change in most countries, even in the United States. But you are not missing the most important question: how do you determine who is an enemy of the state?

          • Joshua Graham

            Easy. Those who are violently against the state and against its values or people.

            Unfortunately the state does not represent the majority people of the nation as much as it does the corporate interests, lobbies, and foreign interests.

          • Gun Fu Guru

            Now that you defined it, how do you implement it? I can only assume that “those who are violently against the state and against its values or people” are people who actively participate in violence. In which case, they get almost exclusively [1] commit suicide, [2] get killed by police, or [3] get sent to prison. In all three cases, there is no one left to expel from the country. If you expand the definition of “those who are violently against the state and against its values or people” to include the underlying support structure and inspirations, where do you stop? Would you have exiled Bernie Sanders because of the incident last week even though he never met the attacker and never encouraged violence? Would you deport everyone who attended Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center in northern Virginia because they may have been “infected” by the teachings of Anwar al-Awlaki (US citizen who became a terrorist) just like Khalid al-Mihdhar (9/11 hijacker), Nawaf Al-Hazmi (9/11 hijacker), Nidal Malik Hasan (Ft. Hood attacker)?

            What you are really advocating for is what Benjamin Franklin railed against: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” He said this during the French and Indian War when the governor wanted to suspend civil liberties after a series of attacks by the Native Americans that left the frontier on edge. You could theoretically call those “terrorist attacks” given that the victims were private citizens and they were for the express purpose of affecting government policy. Not much as changed over time; we are still having this debate. The solution, however, remains the same: more arms and ammunition for more people.

          • Joshua Graham

            I want Muslims gone. Period. I want America to be a nation of my people. Not others. And I do not care about the founders or the Constitution or your interpretation of either.

          • Gun Fu Guru

            So you’re a bigot with no respect for the constitution?
            Now the truth comes out after your repeated euphemisms.
            Goodbye, and good riddance.

          • Joshua Graham

            Yeah, like your beloved founders.

          • If you’re not capable of understanding what the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious freedom means, maybe you’re the one who needs to get the hell out of America. Freedom of religion is one of our most basic core values, and we don’t need unamerican attitudes like yours around here.

          • Joshua Graham

            I’m capable. I just don’t care. I am not a constitutionalist. Constitutionalism is the sort of weird BS that could only arise in a highly polarized society with extremely alienated peoples. You are a misguided person whose moral and political horizons are essentially limited by post-Civil War Supreme Court decisions. Sad.

          • Kate K

            It is simply a leftylie a LIE that they can’t have guest immigration status revoked. In the US, Australia, Canada and most of Europe they can with cause.
            And the ROE noted in the story is about an Haron Monis. In the case cited by the Australian ROE it was a guy who lied through his teeth, made materiel perjury on his asylum application. This is grounds fro revoking naturalized citizenship. Not to mention Man Haron Monis accessory to murder and sexual assault which if properly prosecuted would also be grounds to revoke nationalization and deport.

          • Joshua Graham

            And as it turns out, the founders weren’t constitutionalists either. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98652c4d6e31aa78a560a549bc100dbccc19089654f5159ec55168c010b9390a.png

          • neckbone

            Start with Islam first.

          • Kate K

            Not to deport illegals or persons like the Aussie ROE noted in htis story. They can be deported.

      • n0truscotsman

        There’s no logical end to it. The state will find another scapegoat to deport, then the rest is history. Nobody deserves that kind of power.

        • Gun Fu Guru

          Here, here!

      • Kate K

        In the case cited by the Australian ROE it was a guy who lied through his teeth, made materiel perjury on his asylum application. This is grounds fro revoking naturalized citizenship. Not to mention Man Haron Monis accessory to murder and sexual assault which if properly prosecuted would also be grounds to revoke nationalization and deport.

    • USMC03Vet

      Imagine that right. If gun control actually did what politicians claimed this wouldn’t be necessary. This is basically an admittance that gun control doesn’t work and is simply a ruse to disarm lawful citizens because the government should have a monopoly on force.

    • n0truscotsman

      Eloquently stated.

    • neckbone

      Kinda like the police here needing tanks to keep us safe.

    • wetcorps

      Yeah surely persecuting people ought to bring peace, right? 🙂

  • Cal.Bar

    Here in the US, “military grade assault weapons” were issued to cops based almost entirely upon the (very rare) North Hollywood shoot out where two thugs with body armor and illegal full auto AK’s ran amok in Hollywood. The claim was that police were outgunned by the bad guys. (which, of course, in that very limited case, was true). However, what is Australia’s justification for this? They certainly can’t claim that their cops even see guns on the streets in general, much less, semi-auto ar’s or ak’s.

    • Ark

      I guess they think ISIS is going to paddle ashore with all their gear and launch an attack?

      • Burntout Aussie

        Successive Aussie governments have been a bunch of Woosies. . .and are ALL protecting the Muzzie scumbags. . . .

        • gusto

          you had your own national guy shooting you up in 96

          so by your logic all white australians are bad?

          what other people do should never affect what law abidng citizens do

          • Tassiebush

            He went to a very expensive Quaker school #otherreligionofpeace

          • Tassiebush

            To put some local context around his comment we just had another terror incident very recently. The offender benefited from a lot of second chances. A number of similar cases like the one behind the Lindt cafe have a similar back story. They were granted asylum, involved in serious crimes and later terrorism. Our government has failed us in such cases. To draw a comparison of terrorism with someone like Martin Bryant and the Port Arthur massacre (I still remember that shock in our small community. My bus driver was a victim) is not really all that comparable when you look at the numbers. It was over 20years ago and he was one in around 23million Australians and we’ve not had much like it since vs lots of recent incidents from a small segment from a group who number around 500,000. It’s probably still a small problem compared to other parts of the world but it is disheartening. I agree though it’s not a case for collective blame/responsibility. Most are decent people. If muslims were all as zealous as some claim the Iraqi people wouldn’t have just sacrificed so many in the process of liberating much of Mosul recently.
            http://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/court-records-show-judges-knew-brighton-terror-gunman-would-reoffend/news-story/8bfb69ed048cc9242745dc7d68002513

          • FarmerB

            Yeah, I remember the massacre – I was at a weekend clay shoot in North Western NSW. The next morning, I had to drive 10 hours back to Sydney listening to the radio which was just full of back-to-back hate speech. Every gun somebody mentioned (like pump action shotguns) got added to the list of “to be banned”.

            The stuff was vile.

            How vile? I remember them interviewing one guy who claimed that gun owners like to rape their wives with rifle barrels.

          • Tassiebush

            I was within about a year of being old enough to get my licence and it was such a shock to go from the horror of the murders to then be demonised so heavily in the media and bullied by others whenever you expressed a divergent opinion from the dominating antis. The massacre took away my sense of safety and what should have been a mourning space was one of recriminations and political mileage. Unlike the zeitgeist my instincts are very much that I can do much more to ensure my safety directly if allowed that right, but as a community we moved in the completely opposite direction. It was a real wake up moment.

          • Kate K

            That is a very different question than allowing to stay an iranian who materially lied on their asylum and citizenship applications (cause for denaturalization and expulsion) and had already been arrested for for accessory to murder, and rape before the cafe incident

          • Tassiebush

            He’d also sent hate mail to recently bereaved war widows and he got national headlines for pretty much every one of the crimes we’ve listed. There were so many obvious signs of the risk he posed and the antisocial character he was. I remember when it was pieced together the surprise at realizing it was all that guy!

    • valorius

      There are 12 gauge slugs that will penetrate IIIA armor…but why just buy slugs when you can buy millions of dollars of new weapons instead, right?

      • FarmerB

        Body armour is strictly banned in Australia.

        • valorius

          Of course, why let the peasantry defend themselves in any way whatsoever from violent criminal attack.

        • So are most guns, but here we are. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    • Kivaari

      Some of us used rifles in patrol cars 50 years ago.

    • Richard

      They do see guns on the streets pretty often actually.

      How many times do they have to be gunned down by suspects with rifles before a rifle is justified?

      A police officer was shot dead by a suspect with a select fire SKS just last month.

      • Tassiebush

        Exactly right. If they do face someone with a gun the police are typically at a range and precision disadvantage.

      • Kate K

        Just to keep that in the fact zone, that cop was shot with an illegal SKS.

  • MisterSandman

    But they got rid of gun violence in Australia, right? RIGHT?!?!?

    • Mr. Katt

      Yeah, that’s what I thought their gun ban did . . . no guns, no crime, right ??

      Or maybe they’re going to get onto those out of control and wildly violent Aboriginese.

      • Burntout Aussie

        They banned AUTOMATIC weapons. . .we can still have large calibre rifles. . . .

        • Ross

          They banned all semi-auto long guns, rim-fire and center-fire along with all pump-action shotguns and a bunch of other stuff in 96, AUTOMATIC firearms were already banned.

          • Porty1119

            Machine guns were legal in Tasmania up to ’96, I believe.

          • Ross

            92 I believe, 96 was the ban, but if I recall correctly machine guns were good to go on a standard firearms license up to 92 (in Tasmania), thanks for reminding me I had forgotten about that.

          • FarmerB

            Tassie was special.

          • Tassiebush

            With automatic firearms they were not banned in all states. I remember seeing belt fed machine guns in the Mercury classifieds before it all changed.

        • Gun Fu Guru

          @burntoutaussie:disqus [1] Can you keep the guns with you or do they have to stay locked up at a range or the police station like the UK mandates?

          [2] Can you have lever and bolt guns with an unlimited magazine capacity?

          • Tassiebush

            They’re at home but in approved storage. Generally speaking that means a steel safe. Fixed magazines on rimfires and centrefires have no mag limit. With shotguns however Leveractions now have a 5 round mag limit in most or all states and territories. Detachable centrefire mags are generally capped at 10 for pumps and leverguns. In Tasmania it’s 15for a bolt action centrefire but I think 10in some other states and maybe not limited in some others. Non semi auto rimfires don’t have a limit anywhere as far as I’m aware.

          • Gun Fu Guru

            Can you buy things like the Troy Industries pump action AR-15?
            If so, that’s not as bad as I thought it would be. (Still sucks though.)

          • Tassiebush

            You could own a gun that functioned exactly the same but it’s strong resemblance to a regular ar15 would make it prohibited in my state. They’ve recently started acting on and tightly interpreting laws they’d not been so concerned about previously.

          • FarmerB

            In many states, anything with a pistol grip has been banned for 30+ years.

          • The Forty ‘Twa

            Where are you getting that idea that guns have to be kept at a range or a police station in the UK? Most gun owners in the UK will keep them at home. I know a few who keep firearms at a range but I’m yet to meet a single person who keeps a firearm at a police station.

          • Gun Fu Guru

            I was told that by an older Brit years ago. I thought it was accurate; thanks for pointing that out.

        • Kate K

          FALSE. they banned all semi auto. In the USA there are about 200,000 automatic weapons owned by legal owners (and two murders with them in total in 60 years) but about 240,000,000 semi auto firearms (1,000 x as many semi auto as auto)

    • Burntout Aussie

      Ah yeah ?. . .when was this then ? ? ?

      • valorius

        So you can go buy an AR-15 right?

      • Kivaari

        All those semi-auto and pump repeating shotguns and rifles. Wasn’t that in ’96?

        • FarmerB

          Pump action rifles are ok but not shotguns.

    • Clinton Matthews

      Haha! that’s so funny it’s not. Gun crimes have only escalated since. Offenders have no fear of being shot back at.

  • Ark

    Wait, what? The gold standard for gun control, the utopian gun-free society of Australia thinks their police need high capacity assault weapons in every cruiser?

    • Mr. Katt

      It’s for the children . . .

    • Burntout Aussie

      OF COURSE THEY DO. . .THINK OF OUR CHILDREN. . . ME, I have my 3030 winchester and would not hesitate for half a second.

      • Russ Kell

        But does it have “…the ability with a 30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. 30 magazine clip within half a second…”?

        😉

    • Brian Menin

      In every ute. But the NSW police wouldn’t have the slightest idea how to use them. Thanks to strict gun control, I’m certain most constables never handled a firearm prior to joining the force.

      But these would be for terrorist events. I imagine it would be a rare thing for an officer to use their weapon in the normal course of duty. In my three years living in Australia (an immigrant working for the police and Centrelink lol), I witnessed fists being the weapon of choice for every day criminals.

  • Brett baker

    They slash each other up down there. If you don’t have armor, it would be nice to have some stand-off. If you were able to fire legally, that is. Like the rest of the Commonwealth countries, they are paranoid about” acting like Americans”.

    • UWOTM8

      Australians are so rough and redneck to begin with, it’s a bit of a lost cause for them to not act like us.

      • Porty1119

        It’s time for their government to start behaving accordingly.

      • Kate K

        Not when it comes to rights. Australia constitution and the rights in it were written by a colonizing empire (the UK) that shipped its criminals there. There are not just no second amendment rights, there are less first, fourth and fifth amendment rights there as well.

        • UWOTM8

          Time to stop letting themselves be treated as criminals, then.

  • Edeco

    If I lived there I might find this a kick in the upside-down nuts. But we get it here too, LE “needing” guns we can’t have and medium armored vehicles.

    • The Forty ‘Twa

      Also being able to run red lights and speed, arrest people and do all that cool stuff joe public can’t do.

  • Pete Sheppard

    They should consider the Lithgow Arms F90, a semi-only version of the Australian Army’s new rifle. This would allow for previous training by former soldiers. Being a bullpup, it would be much easier to handle in and around the patrol vehicles.

    • FarmerB

      I don’t think the military guys going into LE is such a big thing.

      • Pete Sheppard

        Actually, I sort of thought the same, but having the same basic rifle could still pay dividends in costs of both the price of the guns and maintenance, as well as the simple factor of ‘Buying Australian’

        • Richard Webb

          The F88 is crap, no-one will touch it unless they are forced to.

          SBR AR platforms with upgraded triggers in .223 or 300 AAC are the standard.

          • Pete Sheppard

            I understood that the F90 pretty much addressed the problems.

      • gruntox

        Lol most of my ex army mates are LE in all states.Not one State uses the F88 all want to be SF Ninjas. VicPol buying Sig MCX .

        • Anonymoose

          They should just issue Mossberg MVPs, since “civilians” have no need for scary semi-automatics.

        • FarmerB

          Oh ok, never run into many ex-military coppers, unlike the US. Still, it was my impression, interested to hear your take on it.

          MCX – I have one – not a bad piece – gets rid of the silly buffer tube, and adds a nice piston system. The UK seems to be buying a heap of them as well, along with the G36’s a number of them have.

          It’s a pretty competent rifle, but not exactly the top-quality item that people usually expect from the SIG name (especially around these parts – I’m in Switzerland). Although I’m happy with an MCX or a G36, it’s the SIG 550’s that are awesome (if not a bit heavy).

  • Gregory

    Will they be carrying the guns taken away from the Australian citizens?

    • Anonymoose

      Those guns were already shredded and melted down 20 years ago, although a ton of them are still out there (80%?) hidden under people’s floorboards.

      • James Young

        Wasn’t there a registry implemented so they couldn’t hide them under the floorboards?

        • TJbrena

          All lost in unfortunate koala attacks, I’m afraid.

          • Klaus Von Schmitto

            A dingo ate my rifle.

        • Tassiebush

          Some states had registration. Others didn’t.

        • Anonymoose

          Yeah, but they still didn’t turn’em in, and the police are too wimpy to go around kicking in doors for the most part, so there are still tons of guns floating around.

          • Rick O’Shay

            Especially out in the boonies. It’s pretty much an open secret among neighbors out there that people have firearms to protect themselves, because everyone else is too far away to be any real use.

          • FarmerB

            Once you get 2 hours outside a major capital city, it’s considered impolite to get out a shovel and dig. And anything you find, just leave it there.

        • FarmerB

          Yeah, but there wasn’t a registry before the seizure. And even though the police could have reached out to gun owners using the records they had from historical gun store sales, they didn’t – although we feared they might do so. But in the end, it was the correct call. 99.98% of people who were hiding their tools were no threat to anybody – as even an anti-gunner said “if they are underground, they aren’t going to hurt anybody”.

          • Kate K

            The only country to not use a registration scheme for mass seizures /confiscation was Canada’s rifle registry — and that is because they studied the effectiveness of their registry, and the non compliance, and decided to end and shred it.

          • FarmerB

            Ok, I first misunderstood your comment: Australia (in some states) did not use a registry for the rifle confiscation, but I get your point that in just about all cases, the registry is used for just that purpose – and in fact some years later, the Australians did just that for pistols.

  • Gun Fu Guru

    If police need patrol rifles to go against folks with machetes and semtex, why can’t the general citizenry have patrol rifles. It’s not like terrorists only attack police.

    • James Young

      Exactly. If police need those rifles to defend people in that area, then wouldn’t the people in that area need those weapons as well? Since the people are usually the victims.

      • Sounds to me like The People were already victims before the terrorists even showed up. While the primary aim of the Second Amendment was (and is) community-based self defense, it’s no accident that it follows immediately after the First Amendment’s guarantee of the right to petition for redress of grievances; an armed society always has a revolutionary’s veto if it comes down to that.

    • neckbone

      Because that is common sense gun reform.

  • valorius

    But i thought Australia was a utopian gun free society. “I’m so confused.” – Vinny Barbarino.

  • Major Tom

    And I just read a Newser article about a guy in Australia being stopped with an MP-40 and ammo for it.

    • Y-man

      With no barrel! LOL!

    • neckbone

      They had the nerve to call it in working condition, but with no barrel. Look at the picture. It was missing trigger pins and had a drywall screw in one of the holes. It was pure garbage

  • FarmerB

    And the Lindt cafe siege was a clear example why you do NOT want to give NSW police a “patrol rifle”. And it makes little sense, since the police in Australia have almost no justification for shooting at a “barricaded shooter”.

    • Gun Fu Guru

      While I think that they should have patrol rifles, I am more cautious than others.

      The problem with arming a police force in a country without civilian shooters is that the “culture” doesn’t exist for the police to gain understanding. The standard police literature in Australia won’t include information about weapons, tactics, techniques, and procedures. Additionally, all of the information on shooting comes from other Australian police officers as their MIL/LEO vets can’t have weapons in order to train the police.

      • Tassiebush

        I agree that there is an issue for innovation in shooting when it’s such a small group familiar with the particular type of firearm but I don’t think it’s accurate to assume there’s no institutional knowledge of rifles in Australian police forces. There’s always been a small specialized portion with them rifles and another consideration is that a carbine is easier not harder to use than a handgun. The handgun is where I’m much more suspicious of whether the skill level is adequate.

        • Gun Fu Guru

          A carbine is easier to be more accurate with; however, pistols are easier to handle in a tactical situation.

    • Tassiebush

      I think the aftermath of Lindt is that there is likely to be a more aggressive attitude in favour of shooting hostage takers in Islamist terror incidents.

      • FarmerB

        Wonder how that will go? One could claim that this would effectively be ‘racial profiling’. A dark looking guy in a kaftan or with a beard gets wasted on sight, but a white guy with a shotgun on the missus gets a pass. I could see the ABC putting a story together on that.

        • Tassiebush

          Yeah I don’t envy people making the call in that situation. I hope training can help with identification of the actual situation of able to be talked down or at least release people vs likely to kill.
          The ABC would doubtless reduce a difficult and challenging multifaceted situation down to an unhelpful and innacurate narrative. Having said that they have been in my good books since they focused on exposing influence and access of some wealthy Chinese communist party members to our major political parties.

  • USMC03Vet

    This is BS. The police should have to obey the same asinine laws that civilians do. Aussies were effectively disarmed and that still isn’t enough for the gun control utopia that was created.

    • You say you want a revolution? [Beatles riff plays, interrupted by needle being loudly dragged off record] Having law enforcement officers who are above the laws followed by ordinary citizens is how you get a revolution. Riots don’t just happen by accident.

    • The Forty ‘Twa

      Emergency services shouldn’t be able to speed, run red lights or do anything like that because we can’t. It’s not fair.

      • USMC03Vet

        Driving isnt a civil right.

        Take your terrible analogy elsewhere.

        • The Forty ‘Twa

          You didn’t mention civil rights though, you said asinine laws. If you meant one thing why did you say something else?

          • Kate K

            It is a valid point. running red lights is not a right.

  • John

    “Appropriately trained general duty officers in states and territories may also have access to long-arms. For example, the service rifle of the Queensland Police is the Remington Patrolman R4 carbine. These were purchased in 2013 to replace Ruger .223 rifles previously used by police. According to reports, at least 1,000 officers will be trained to use this weapon.”

    From the following link:
    https://www.loc.gov/law/help/police-weapons/australia.php#_ftn29

    So while Aussie police might use an AR-15 type weapon, it’s probably not going to be a Colt as earlier reports stated.

    • Richard

      They mostly go with ‘the cheapest’ . R-15 as stated, also Rock River Arms.

  • Tassiebush

    Certainly seems a reasonable match to the need given the number of terror plots and incidents and gang activity in the state.
    Australian police are most likely to come up against a long arm. I’d imagine in the USA it’s likely a handgun.
    Aside from the regular domestic violence type work the violent situations seem to be largely middle Eastern crime gangs and outlaw motorbike gangs. Unfortunately Middle Eastern crime gangs are pretty happy to open fire and if you read about a drive buy shooting chances are it’s one of them. There seems to be an amount of interaction between the gang scene and the jihadists in some cases.

    • Kate K

      well about 93% of US murder is gang on gang or criminal on criminal. Austlais is about 30%. If you are not a criminal you are no more likely to be murdered in the US than Australia.

      • Tassiebush

        I definitely think gang members are far more likely to die by murder than a regular citizen but they don’t just leave the community alone and the presence of them increases the risk of murder for non criminals.

  • Veteran for Trump

    Australian Government: “Guns for we, but not for thee”.

  • john huscio

    Australia would be a nice place to live……..if it wasn’t for the majority of Australians and the odious nannystate they put in place to rule themselves…….oh and all the species of venomous animals that can kill you within the first 15 minutes….

    • Sunshine_Shooter

      Agreed. I’m starting to look into New Zealand more & more.

  • The Forty ‘Twa

    “The operational need for these changes was brought into play by the Cafe Lindt siege in late 2014, but was further pushed by events such as the Paris attacks and recent active shooter events in the United Kingdom.”

    What active shooter events in the UK?

    • Kate K

      UK has had several active shooter events

  • The Bob

    We have some of the strictest gun laws in the world, and soon some of the most heavily armed police.
    Something seems a little wrong here…

  • VanDiemensLand

    From the coverage that I’ve seen, NSW Police Service is mainly concerned about officers ability to counter suspected suicide bombers more effectively, not so much terrorists with guns, as they have also introduced changes to how the perception of risk is assessed in regards to using lethal force against people who may not “appear” to be armed, but there is reason to believe there is a threat to public safety. I agree that there is gun crime in Aus, but it is a lot less common that in the US and even the a**hole who perpetrated the Lindt Cafe siege only managed to get a double barrelled shotgun. TBH it is not terribly hard to own a gun in Aus, and I know many many gun owners, yes semi autos are heavily regulated, but you can own them. Also let’s not forget that Aus has no “2A”, so it is not a constitutionally protected right, I work in an Emergency Dept in Tasmania, and GS injuries are very rare, intentional ones even more so, I’d say in the 5 years ive been there, I have seen about 4-5 intentional shootings.

    • VanDiemensLand

      And yes you can buy illegal guns, however a lot of the people selling them, really don’t wanna sell to to you if they have any inkling you may be a terrorist, because the heat that attracts is extreme. It also make it easier for the police to detect criminals trying to arm themselves, and to arrest them if they do.

    • Tassiebush

      monis had a pump. Not a double.

      • VanDiemensLand

        My bad, I heard “sawn off” and assumed a double. You know what they say about assumptions 😉

        • Tassiebush

          Yeah they often go together. It’s not a crazy assumption. I’m just pedantic about it because the incident triggered an unnecessary review of gun laws even though he used an unregistered banned gun.

          • VanDiemensLand

            Haha, Yeah I don’t think there is a case for further restrictions TBH, if anything I think that if you can buy a 5 round lever action shotty, why not a pump gun? That doesn’t seem logical lol I’d love a pump 12 gauge.

          • Tassiebush

            Yeah agreed it doesn’t make sense and I would love one too!
            What was a worry when all the fuss about the Adler happened is that they pretty much reversed that logic and said leverguns were similar to pumps and started pretending they were a loophole in the laws. I think we came awfully close to another round of bans.

          • VanDiemensLand

            Yeah I saw a lot of that, I certainly haven’t heard of people running areound with 5 round Adlers and causing mayhem, personally I don’t see a huge difference between a 5 shot capacity vs a two shot one when it comes to mass shootings etc. I’d argue that pump guns definitely have a place for hunting and pest control, and I don’t see a huge trade of in terms of “danger” to the public, but yeah, it’s probably more realistic to hope for no further bans, as opposed to reversing some of the current ones.

          • Tassiebush

            Agreed I doubt we’ll see any relaxation of the restrictions. If I had to pick one then maybe the hearing protection and noise complaint reduction argument might one day change things on mufflers but that’s probably being too hopeful. I don’t think that the arguments for category c existing stack up at all either but way too much hysteria exists around the idea of semi autos for that to change.

          • Tassiebush

            One cool thing that seems to be coming and less mired in controversy is straight pull shotguns with spring assisted return. They’re like a semi without a gas piston with a bigger handle.

    • Kate K

      Australia does not have less crime or murder than similar demographic regions of the USA. I’m from New Hampshire and have been to Australia twice, it is a lot like new Hampshire., We have no different murder rate. When I was there last there was a murder of eight kids with a knife.
      And its gun control was a total failure. 53% drop in murder rate? The US had a 64% drop in murder since the early 1990’s.
      We also know gun control had no effect on suicide other than shifting it to other means.

  • John

    It’s about time, it’s hard to apprehend an armed felon with sharp sticks and harsh language!

  • mostte

    It’s for shooting at vehicles. The likelihood of a spree shooting terrorist attack with a auto rifle is very low due to lack of access. The chances of a vehicle attack is much greater.