PS90: Toy or Tool?

The 5.7x28mm cartridge is certainly a divisive round. On one hand, you have people making ludicrously grandiose claims about its effectiveness, while others simply write it off as a gimmick or overpriced .22WMR from Belgium. A long time ago I wrote the PS90 off as a pointless, but fun rifle (having little utility but being a fun range toy) and so decided to run around with it at the ranch for a few different trips up there. So, is it a tool or simply a toy?

Please subscribe!!! Click here.

Please subscribe!!! Click here.


Thanks to our sponsor Ventura Munitions. Without them TFBTV Would not be possible.

 

Transcript …

– [Voiceover] The PS90.

Toy, or tool? We live in an interesting time where many ranchers and farmers have eschewed lever and bolt action rifles for self loaders, like AR15s and competing designs.

The bane of ranchers everywhere, are these.

Especially in spring and early summer, when new calves are most vulnerable.

While hogs are also a nuisance, coyotes are what get after calves, and the game animals you want on your land, i.e. turkey and deer.

The PS90 is a strange offering in the market.

Firing an equally odd cartridge that many have shunned and others have embraced.

I once called it pointless but fun, and many bemoaned this, saying that the gun has an amazing amount of utility.

So I took it upon myself to test this, and let it ride shotgun with me for a while to see how it would work as a tool.

The SS197 cartridge delivers a 40 grain projectile at about 1,900 feet per second, which is not especially impressive.

This gun is equipped with a mini ACOG, on top of a TROS USA mount, and the optic is quite nice.

One thing I do really like about this gun is the ergonomics.

While it looks like I absolutely dwarf it, it is very comfortable to hold and shoot.

Not to mention its compact size is very, very handy.

Follow-up shots are also extremely easy to make, and recoil is almost nonexistent.

Magazines hold a total of 50 rounds, which is incredible, and ammunition weight is very low.

You can also see that the cartridges rotate 90 degrees, while loading the magazine.

Which is very interesting in and of itself.

Magazine changes are not very convenient, although it’s not really a big deal when you’re on a ranch.

50 rounds is quite a lot, and I’ve never actually had to do a mag dump on a coyote.

(trigger clicks) While the gun is firing, while loading cartridges into the chamber, it does rotate the rounds 90 degrees back to the proper feed angle.

As mentioned, it is also bottom ejecting, so as to be friendly to right handed or left handed shooters.

This is a truly ambidextrous gun.

There is also a dust cover located in the ejection port that you can close to keep dust and debris out of the action.

(rapid gunfire) (rapid gunfire) (rapid gunfire) (rapid gunfire) At 50 yards with the PS90 while shooting rapidly, it was very easy to keep my shots on target and make follow-ups.

Note the almost total absence of muzzle climb here, making it incredibly easy to get the reticle right back on target.

(gunfire) (gunfire) As a test of the gun’s practical accuracy, I fired several five-shot groups from a crouching position at the same 50 yards.

The reason I do this in a crouching position is because it is the most likely position I’ll be in when I take a shot at a coyote.

You simply don’t have the time to go prone, or set up a shot from the tailgate of a vehicle, for example.

I was reasonably impressed as well.

The rifle held about two or three inches at 50 yards, and I did manage to tighten up a few groups to about one and a half inches.

So I was honestly surprised.

I did not expect the SS197 projectile from a 10 and a half inch barrel to perform this well.

I also did shift the sights a bit to get it more correct in the way of windage.

So that still begs the question, is it a toy or a tool? Well, I will say that it is handy as hell to use in a vehicle.

It’s very easy to get out and get in and throw it in the passenger side of the seat.

It rides well, and it doesn’t bounce around too much, and it’s very well-balanced.

However, I honestly don’t have faith in it as a coyote gun.

Five point seven by 28 just isn’t substantial enough.

I do believe that 223 is suitable, and that’s about the bare minimum I would use.

It is easy to use to get over obstacles and walk around the property.

However, I do have a lot more faith in it as a squirrel, raccoon, possum, and other varmint gun, than I do a coyote or hog gun.

I hope you guys enjoyed this video, I realize this opinion might be a little controversial, especially because a lot of five point seven by 28 advocates are going to say it’s perfectly suitable for everything from squirrel up to elk, but I simply do not believe that’s the case.

However, if you have experience using one for hunting, then I’d like to hear about it.

Until next time guys, special thanks to Ventura Munitions, and a special thank you to you for watching.

(gunfire)



Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV.


Advertisement

  • Joseph Goins

    While you didn’t state so in the video, I assume that you NFAed the gun? The original P90 was a good gun for the PDW role, but the PS90 as a semiauto is a toy in my opinion.

    • Count_Iblis

      Civilian ammo for the P90 is also the issue. The military/police only stuff performs better.

      • Joseph Goins

        True, the ammo is different. However, the round is pretty anemic anyway which limits its effectiveness. In its original full-auto version, it was a near perfect PDW (especially for the late 90s).

        • Twilight sparkle

          It still works well as a bed side gun or as a pdw vehicle gun for people that may need it. The local sheriffs department here has semi auto cut down ps90s

      • Amplified Heat

        The bigger issue is FN detuning the round for both civvy and LEO as time goes on, so operation isn’t so hard on the weapons. I think the diminished capability against armor has also proven to be less of an issue in practice than FN/NATO originally theorized (the armored guy’s eyeballs are as gooey as the next guy’s)

  • Hoplopfheil

    The P90 in civilian form seems like a jack of a few trades. Many guns are better at certain things but few others can boast the same featureset. Maybe the CMR to some extent.

    Or you can go older with a PPS43c. Similar type of cartridge in a similar package.

    • Amplified Heat

      The ‘jack of few trades’ is compact, high capacity, lightweight, reliable, accurate, easy to shoot, and plenty powerful to be a solid option at defensive ranges (and effective out to 200yds on many types of target).

      Also, have you ever held a PPS43? Wildly different platform, and other than being ‘faster than a 9mm’ Tokarev really isn’t all that similar to 5.7×28; it neither tumbles nor fragments as its primary wound mechanism, and isn’t going fast enough from a carbine to begin causing hydrostatic effects like 5.7 sometimes does.

      • Hoplopfheil

        The comparison is to a high velocity bottlenecked cartridge (arguably “armor piercing”) in an SMG format, but moreover it is to a civilian legal version. The PPS43c and the PS90 are both neutered versions of guns that were originally quite different in use. Especially if you don’t SBR them.

        In practical terms (real world terms) the PS90 is okay at some everyday uses, but doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

  • Anonymous

    The PS90 is the uncool one. He’s like the annoying younger brother with a weirdly big nose, we put up with him and maybe give him some plastic surgery and pretend he’s the cool sibling, but he’s not.
    P90 is the cool one, he’s got a heck of cool leather jacket and a sweet motorcycle and the chicks love him.
    PS90 just tried to pretend to be his bigger brother, but no matter how much surgery is done it won’t cover up the fact he was the flipperbaby of the two.

    • Amplified Heat

      We all agree a semi-auto AR15 is generally more effective than an M16 on full auto, right? The real issue with the PS90 is the absolute pain in the butt FNH made it to remove the barrel & replace with a shorty for SBR.

      • iksnilol

        Hacksaw and threading tool.

        • Amplified Heat

          Not quite so easy as that, believe it or not, especially if your goal is to salvage any parts

          • iksnilol

            How hard can it be to chop down a long exposed barrel?

          • Amplified Heat

            It’s not a barrel, but a shroud that threads onto it to act as a barrel nut. But not only that, the threads are halfway down the barrel past the cut point. But not only that, there is a blind pin that is mashed around the circumference of the threads in a groove, so it must be carved out. But not only that, the whole barrel assembly is allowed to float about 1/8″ against a return spring to assist with the breech timing.

            The original P90 barrel is pretty simple, but the S version’s is a bit of a hot mess, even if it is accurate

    • Jeez, it’s like you’ve never nerded before– put a ventilated barrel shroud and an OEG optic on it and stencil a Rebel Alliance symbol on the side, it’s a perfect Star Wars blaster rifle.

  • Todd

    No adequate for coyote? I like you Alex but I respectfully submit that you are misguided. The PS90 is well suited for that task. SBR or 16.1 seems to make litte difference in practical accuracy. Dogs fall when the PS90 barks. Sometimes they stagger off into the long grass to serve as a reminder to their kind that even small pills have consequences.

    • gunsandrockets

      Maybe Texas coyotes are like the T-Rex of coyotes or something? That need a minimum of .223 to put down?

      In all seriousness, I would think the 5.7mm fired from a 10 inch barrel wholly adequate for killing a coyote within 100 yards.

      • LCON

        5.7x28mm Takes down Jaffa no problem.. But see a Coyote and Run for your life. 😛

    • Vhyrus

      I came here just to say this. Coyotes weigh, what? 35 pounds? 50 maybe? You can kill them with a 22 if you’re good enough.

      • Bill

        Shot placement being everything, the cartridge is secondary.

        • Tassiebush

          I agree but would add that if a cartridge drills though both sides of something whilst another can only be effective from a chosen angle then effectively the former cartridge broadens the possibilities of shot placement. This applies best to vermin since it can be hit from a lot more angles without worrying about meat damage or pelts.

          • Bill

            True that

      • Tassiebush

        That’s true but the paradigm with pests is a bit different to other forms of hunting. With a predator you don’t want to have to pass up any shot because the round wasn’t potent enough for the shot.

    • thedonn007

      Unless you need to drop a coyote dead right there, I think a coyote hit with 5.7×28 would die eventually.

      • Those 40gr V-Maxes have very good expansion characteristics, but fundamentally, they end up looking like .380 ACP equivalents from a ballistics perspective, although maybe with better penetration.

        I would choose something with a higher energy budget, although I have no doubt a skilled marksman could stack yotes high with a 5.7mm.

        • Kivaari

          I shot dogs and deer with .380, 9mm, .38 Special .357 magnum and .44 Special. Only the .357 showed serious performance. All the others (all from handguns) were pathetic. A .357 rolled the critters and made bone and tissue fly. All the others made little holes and took multiple hits. I did an injured and upright deer with a 12 ga, where only one 00-buck hit. It dropped instantly.

          • .357 is great. I wish that there was something like it from a rifle, but that had a much flatter trajectory and expanded at longer ranges.

            Wait, that’s .223. 🙂

          • Kivaari

            A couple were first hit with .38 Special. What a pathetic round. A good 9mm JHP will do well.

          • I must not be enough of a gunfighter, because I think the .38 Special is a pretty poor round.

            I mean, I always think of it with wadcutters, which were considered this gold standard for terminal effect back in the day. I suppose today they have decent JHPs that expand OK, which I guess would make it kind of like a .380 with more consistent penetration… That doesn’t sound terrible, until you remember how huge .38 Special is compared to .380 or 9mm.

          • Kivaari

            A .38 +P with today’s bullets may be OK. With 158 LRN I watched them go in one side traverse the thorax and exit with out much of a flinch. Early 9mm Remington was pretty much FMJ 40 years ago. Now good bullets in 9mm running at
            35,000 PSI, 150-200% more than .38 Special, AKA: 9x29mmR, can do the job.
            In ’71 our FBI academy istructors reported they had just investigated 3 shootings on Indian reservations where tribal police shot suspects using .38-148 WC (2.7gr Bullseye?) training ammo. The suspects were DRT.

          • DrewN

            Didn’t Elmer have a .38S load that was a hard cast 170 gr bullet over 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400? That would probably sting a little.

          • iksnilol

            Is good if you are not exactly legal and need to load with… improvised powders (my favorite is matchhead powder). More case capacity is useful for that.

          • Amplified Heat

            I think 223 is just a bit more powerful than 357…

          • I didn’t say it wasn’t.

        • Worth noting is that the .380 footage you shared is filmed at a closer perspective then the 5.7×28, which creates a sense of larger stretch cavity / performance than the 5.7×28.

          Also the 5.7×28 is being fired out of a pistol; out of the p90 it’s going 200ft/s faster.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Now, technically you can fire the .380 from a carbine also for extra oomph, but your right that the perspective creates a lie; making the .380 seem like its stretch cavity is the same size as the 5.7, though it is actually slightly smaller in diameter and much smaller in length.

          • I’m not that worried about the temporary stretch cavity, I am going off memory here, but I believe the expansion between the SS197 and the typical .380 ACP JHP is pretty similar.

            Although, as you note, once you get to the full PS90 barrel, the SS197 starts to fragment at close ranges, which is nice.

          • Kivaari

            That’s not much. It took several shots from a .380 to kill a dog that was already injured. It was painful to have to kill the thing. Multiple shots, led to a sleepless night.

          • iksnilol

            What kind of shot was it? In the head or the heart/lungs ?

            Kinda curious here since dogs are one of the things I risk having to shoot during summer in Bosnia.

          • Tassiebush
          • Kivaari

            Depended upon circumstances. Head shot with a .357 cause a horrible mess with bone and tissue flying 20 plus feet in all directions. Chest shots and neck shots with all the pistol rounds except the .357 or modern 9mm were sadly poor killers. I started using the body shots after having the spray creates issues. I just shoot multiple times now, since none of them are quick deaths.

          • iksnilol

            What about putting a towel over and shootign through it. Could that help with the spray and debris?

            I am kinda more keen on a headshot if putting something down. Luckily I haven’t had to put down any animals yet *knocks on wood*

          • Kivaari

            That helps. I ended up putting .22 LR rifles in each patrol car to do this. You can reach out and put it in the ear or on the fore head and pop ’em. Less mes. Other times I was packing off-duty guns and didn’t have a towel or old burlap bag handy. Head shots work better.

          • FarmerB

            Because where I grew up, we never had pistols, we always dispatched animals with .22LR rifles (not cattle or horses though – generally a .222 or up). A shot between the eyes with a .22LR will kill almost anything – as long as the forehead on large animals isn’t angled and you get a ricochet. I regularly put down dogs with a .22 – I’m pretty sure this 5.7 would kill a coyote. We also slaughtered pigs with .22LR to the brain – although not effective with a hit anywhere else. Strangely, the thing I found hardest to kill was sheep. Shooting them from the side, the wool seems to act like a nylon vest. I’ve seen sheep walk away from shots that would have brought down a pig of twice the size (or even a cow).

          • Tassiebush

            those moments aren’t fun. I once used a 22lr with subsonics to kill a cow. Thought I’d killed it then had to follow up with another one through the eye. Those skulls are thick!

          • Kivaari

            A .45 ACP from a 3.5 inch barrel will bounce off a calf’s skull. A .22 rifle held to the head works better. We put .22 rifles in our patrol cars just for that reason. You can extend your arm so the muzzle is against the skull or in an ear. Pop.

          • Tassiebush

            yeah it’s usually fine and very quiet with the muzzle against the head. “pop” indeed. i’ve shot plenty of sheep including some large rams. if i had used high velocity or probably even a solid it would have been different. just unfortunate ammo and the cow had it’s head in blackberry/brambles so i didn’t have an optimal angle either. had to lean over it and push back thorny canes and pull trigger with thumb to follow up.

          • Well what’s interesting is that .223 JHP’s also expand similarly to .380 – the 62GR TSX for example is 0.49″ @ 2700fps. SS197 does about .47″ from test’s I’ve seen.

            The real debate comes at, what makes something a rifle vs a pistol wound? The initial estimate for “rifle velocity temporary stretch cavity” was 1700fps; the SS197 is doing 1750ft/s, and out of the P90, 1900fps+.

            If you google image search SS197 Hunting / 5.7×28 Hunting / Five Seven Hunting images, there are quite a few game animal that have been taken with one shot of SS197, whereas I don’t think the same would have been true with the same shot placement and a .380.

            Combined with the medical reports associated with the 5.7×28 that are out there, it seems that there is more going on with the round that numbers and gel alone would suggest.

          • Amplified Heat

            Tumble, bob, weave, and framgment are the wound mechanism. It’s also going barely fast enough for minor hydrostatic effects. Unfortunately, FNH detuned the round just enough for safer operation (in the P90, believe it or not) that these effects aren’t quite as consistent as, say, expansion in a quality modern hollowpoint. Part of it is that these wound characteristics are still something of an emerging tech without very much development for these power levels.

  • Koh

    The victims from Ft. Hood sadly speak of the round’s effectiveness. 🙁

    • Zachary marrs

      Not really.

    • I would think they’d have more to say about the failure of basic site security and rules limiting the carrying of sidearms to MPs and security contractors; the more bitter ones might have something to say about promotion practices that are so often used to get rid of mentally unstable scumbags by promoting them out of a unit and making them Somebody Else’s Problem™.

  • Alex, have you ever tried it on a Coyote? There’s quite a few photos online of hogs and deer taken with one shot of the SS197 out of the 4.75″ pistol; I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t effective on something much smaller, unless the coyote is particularly wile e.

  • micmac80

    PS90 at the muzzle is close to .223 at 300m so if its used for short distances it packs more than enough punch.

    In any case ‘operators’ worldwide now seem more fond of the HK 4.6mm MP7 and P90 is now so 90’s fashion

    • Anonymoose

      Only because it’s more in-line with traditional Uzis and MACs and is seen as the successor to the MP5, but afaik they still prefer ~10″ carbines for most things.

    • Jay

      Well, the P-90 was designed as PDW and in that respect it’s better than MP7. The “operators” that use MP7 are not using it as PDW, but backup to their main firearm.
      The PDW by definition, is supposed to be the main firearm of that “operator”.

      • CommonSense23

        Where do you get The retarded idea that guy is going to keep the MP7 is a backup.

        • iksnilol

          Beats having a pistol as a backup/sidearm.

          • CommonSense23

            Do you realize how big they are.

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, but my point still stands. Same applies to the TP9 or whatever they call it now.

          • CommonSense23

            Neither gun were designed to be carried as a secondary. Guys who carry the MP7 carry it in place of a rifle.

          • iksnilol

            TP9 is being issued as a sidearm thingamajig for pilots.

    • Amplified Heat

      The MP7 is also several thousand dollars and has a service life of about as many rounds before requiring factory overhaul. It also has reportedly harsh recoil & concussion, and is generally unpleasant to shoot, unlike the P/S90. Lastly, it really isn’t even that small at the end of the day, being about the same size with the un-ergonomic stock extended, only with a giant donkey-dong of a magazine jutting out of the grip (oh wait, they use the 20rnd flush mag with the 40s as backups, making the gun practically identical to a five-seven pistol as far as ‘firepower’)

      • ostiariusalpha

        That is incorrect, the MP7 is absurdly easy to shoot. It’s the UMP that’s a b*tch.

      • iksnilol

        If you have problems with an MP7… well, then you should stay away from rimfires as well.

        • Amplified Heat

          So the report isn’t loud, the recoil isn’t sharp for what the round is? That contradicts my limited research. Doesn’t really matter in the end, though, since the guns are utterly unobtainable in the US, regardless what fans may feel about them.

          • iksnilol

            Something like that.

            I know a 15 year old kid didn’t have aproblem controlling one enough to keep the rounds on the man size target at 25 or 50 meters (full auto mag dump).

            It was during a military show here in Norway.

      • CommonSense23

        The MP7 is a blast to shoot. Especially supressed. Everything else sucks about it.

  • Lance

    The design has its marrits. But its 5.7mm round is not worth the price. Its known to over penetrate and lacks knock down power. A MP-5 or a M-3 SMG is a lot better choice. And to those who need AP capabilities a MK- 18 fill that rile much better than a P-90.

    • Amplified Heat

      LOL at M3, a gun shockingly rare in the real world, and like all 45smgs, pretty uncomfortable to shoot (and with wire stock, too). Also LOL at 5.7 over penetrating (esp from the rifle). MP5s are nice, though (but also a lot heavier & more ungainly for fewer rounds on tap).

    • iksnilol

      LANCE!? YOU’RE BACK!

      😀

      • Amplified Heat

        Who’s Lance, is my accent the same?

        • iksnilol

          The guy you replied to, the one who mentioned using an M3 due to 5.7s overpenetration. He’s a local legend.

  • Anonymoose

    I wouldn’t hesitate to pop a coyote, possum, or raccoon with it, but I wouldn’t pay 2 grand for it either.

    • gunsandrockets

      Yeah if anything cost effectiveness is the real problem with the P90.

      • Beju

        Looking around on the Internet, the going rate of $1300 for a PS90 isn’t terrible, nor are the magazines at ~$25 for the factory magazines and less for the aftermarket AR57 magazines.

        However, the ammo being 25% more than comparable brass 223 and more than twice as expensive as 9mm will continue to limit the popularity of the platform.

        • Amplified Heat

          223 is abnormally cheap from a historical perspective due to the ’13 panic over production, though. All 5.7 is HPBT ammo, whereas 223 & 9mm normally aren’t. Blame congress for no FMJ 5.7 plinking ammo

          • Beju

            I prefer to blame H&K for the lack of NATO standardization 😉

    • Amplified Heat

      Who’s paying 2 grand for a PS90, lol? I agree they are pricey for a blowback carbine, but it’s not like there are any real competitors, either (AR57 to a much lesser extent, perhaps)

    • Cabela’s usually has them in stock for $1299 regular price, and I’ve seen them at LGSs for as low as $1099.

  • pieslapper

    Worked great for the SGC, although I… er, they preferred the zat.

    • Tassiebush

      Zats are cool and all but they all seem to hangfire. on the plus side the 3 shot sequence of stun kill and clean up combined with it being quieter is all handy.

  • Bub

    I probably would not carry a P90 as a farm truck gun. Typically my goto is ar15. Mainly because that’s what I’ve got. Thought of other options, because sometimes an AR can get a little bulky. Looked at cz 527 carbine in 7.62×39, but I don’t know. An older guy I know carries a model 94, typically thrown loose in the backseat or floorboard of a quad-cab pickup and it seems to work for him.

  • Bill

    I dunno – the round and weapon are unitaskers, built for one purpose, and “truck gun” isn’t it, and the civilian ammo is a huge compromise. I doubt any coyote could tell if it was shot with one versus some other varmint round before croaking.

    But I’ve also thought certain lever guns would make adequate patrol rifles, so I’m clueless.

    • truthsayer

      The PS90 appears to work quite well on Stargate Atlantis. 😉

      • Gecko9mm

        It’s good enough for the Marines too. My cousin said they were never let down by their PS90s and he served as a fleet Colonial Marine for two tours on the old Atlantia and then the Pegasus.

        • Tom Currie

          Since when did the marines (or SG1) use a PS90?? Last I recall, both were using the P90 — and usually using it on rock&roll — there is a world of difference between a dozen of the milspec rounds vs 1 of the civilian rounds.

          • iksnilol

            y’all know that triggers aren’t single use? Right. You can fire more than one round rapidly with a semi auto.

          • Giolli Joker

            Yep, especially with a compact semi auto with no muzzle flip and almost no recoil…

          • Tom Currie

            True enough, but the P90 and PS90 are still quite different guns. The difference in barrel length (unless you are like wasting money) gives the PS90 different handling characteristics – but the biggest difference in the real world (and TV universe) is that the military uses completely different ammo so there is no practical comparison between a civilian using a PS90 and the military using a P90

          • Gecko9mm

            Oh, right, we stand corrected. Fleet marines used P90s but just showing how well the 5.7mm gets no love, they switched to the Beretta CX4s in 9mm.

          • Tom Currie

            the switch from 5.7 to 9mm makes a lot of sense for the military (simplifying supplies) unless the bad guys are wearing soft body armor.

            Basically no one is wearing soft body armor (NIJ IIIA and down) on a battlefield today — everyone either goes up to hard plates or doesn’t wear armor at all.

          • Gecko9mm

            The skin jobs it was OK but you needed HE on those Toasters.

          • Kivaari

            The CX4 makes more sense.

          • Kivaari

            The civilian rounds should be better performing, since they would not need to pass through body armor.

      • Tassiebush

        I recall Samantha Carter obliterated a log with one demonstrating it’s power to some rebel Jaffa on SG1

        • Bob

          That’s the general theme in Stargate though. Opponents usually get a half a dozen rounds at least. Rarely is anyone sparing with the ammo on the show. I find that to be somewhat realistic, given the limited ballistics of the 5.7 round.

          And if you pay attention, our heroes favor P90s, but there are plenty of M4s and other weapons represented on the show. It looks like not everyone involved with the Stargate Program is sold on the P90….

          • hikerguy

            Sheppard later switched to a G36 Kurz as well as SG1’s Colonel Mitchell.

          • Tom Currie

            If anything about SG1 were real, the P90 would have made a lot of sense in exactly the role where it was shown – as a PDW against close surprise targets that might not be taken down with a 9mm pistol.

            You might note however that when really serious defense was needed they used the M2 in .50BMG.

      • hikerguy

        Yeah, but you almost half to empty a whole mag to bring down a Wraith. That is unless you are close enough to get a headshot in, lol. 😉

    • Amplified Heat

      The real question is what do we think “truck gun” even means? To some folks it’s the ability to take game of opportunity, to others it’s a purely defensive fallback option. I’d agree the PS90 is more suited to the latter, but there are folks who have taken deer-sized animals at close-ish ranges without issue, so it’s hardly unsuitable for that role, either.

      • I really like a decent Mauser-style bolt gun as a “truck/trunk gun”. In a major caliber (.308, 8mm, .30-06, etc) they can handle everything from an elk to a Honda with a bodykit, they are fairly rapid-firing, and they are extremely compact, while looking very domestic. Yugo and CZ Mausers can still be had for a decent price, too.

        It’s not the only choice by any means (I have personally used everything from pistol-caliber carbines to AKs in this role), but I certainly wouldn’t scoff at someone who did choose it.

        • Kivaari

          In my personal rigs I packed shotguns, Colt 9mm carbines, AR15s and lots of military surplus bolt guns and my favorite an M1 carbine.

          • Anonymoose

            Ah, yes, the old M1 Carbine under the seat…the whole reason why you’re required to have a CHL to have a gun in the cabin of your vehicle…

          • Kivaari

            We could carry them loaded in patrol cars. As a private citizen we could not carry them loaded. But two loaded magazines in a butt stock pouch gave ready access.

        • Porty1119

          A .30-06 bolt gun, extremely compact? Compared to what, a PTRD?

          • In depth, not length. A 20-24″ barreled bolt gun fits in a trunk or truck back seat just fine without taking up as much space top to bottom as an AR-15.

          • Anonymoose

            How about one of those 18″ Yugo Mausers in .30-06?

        • Amplified Heat

          Why on Earth would you want a bolt rifle, and such a powerful one, for a defensive role? Especially an old Mauser with terrible sights (especially especially a Mosin as suggested elsewhere). M1 carbine makes some sense, but honestly a PS90 is even smaller, no “deeper” than the Mauser stock, and has greater accurate range than the Carbine while still powerful enough to end threats. Also fifty rounds and quite reliable.

          • Depends what you’re doing. A Mauser will be far more versatile in terms of the targets it can comfortably engage than a PS90 will be, but the PS90 does beat it for rate of fire and capacity.

      • DrewN

        IMO, the classic truck gun is either a 30-30 lever or a 22-250 pump. Of course a 12 ga pump is probably more versatile, but I love me some 22-250.

      • Anonymoose

        A truck gun is a necessary survival tool for any shtf/bad day scenario. It should ideally be something of adequate power in a common caliber and good ergonomics and reliability that wouldn’t set you back a ridiculous amount or get you in trouble if you lose it to theft or police confiscation after a (good) defensive shooting. I would shy away from using anything more than $1000 for a truck gun, or anything NFA or with expensive optics or laser devices. Nuggets, SKSes, Mausers, AKs, beater ARs (6920 being the upper limit, AK & AR pistols are also acceptable), any semi-lightweight “sporting” bolt-action or lever-action with BUIS, pistol-caliber carbines, and 18-20″ pump shotguns make ideal truck/trunk guns. You can also make a case for a full-size double-stack 9mm, .40, or .45 or full-size DA/SA revolver in .357, .44, or .45 as a glove compartment/console gun.

        • Amplified Heat

          If the purpose is SHTF or whatever, why would you not want the very best tool for the job? A grand or so in gun/optic/NFA papers is nothing compared to legal, so insure the thing & move on. A small carbine is infinitely easier to shoot especially compared to a magnum revolver with a paltry six-eight shots at the ready. The type of situation that would call for something more than a CCW from a vehicle involves either a group, or rifleman.

          Agree on the shotgun, but ‘auto burglars’ are still rather large due to NFA, and even/especially SBS have very low capacity & range, making them ill suited for engaging anything but singular threats at the window.

          • Anonymoose

            A non-NFA item will not be used against you in court or hurt as bad if the cops “lose” it from the evidence locker if you have to use it in a defense scenario short of “entire governmental and societal collapse.” A basic 16″ AR15 or AK is also plenty adequate if you find yourself in a post-nuclear wasteland while you’re out-and-about in your car. Also, I never said you should only have a handgun in your car. That’s a secondary weapon to the long gun in your backseat or trunk.

          • Kivaari

            I wont use an NFA gun since I travel between states routinely. Montana is 16 miles east and Washington is 57 miles west.

          • Amplified Heat

            Fair enough; Texas is roomier

        • Gecko9mm

          I always thought truck guns were for ranchers dispatching pests rather than the aliens have landed their flying saucer scenarios? But in my state, we don’t have ranchers nor truck guns. Just truck loads of gun grabbers.

    • Kivaari

      Years ago we carried Winchester M94s in .30-30. Not a bad rifle.

  • Blake

    If I had to pick a coyote gun it would be the new Henry Long-Ranger in .223. Accurate like a bolt gun, quick follow-up shots, & gorgeous.

    https://www.henryrifles.com/wp-content/uploads/rifles/H014-longrange-featured.jpg

    • gunsandrockets

      Holy Crap! Okay that one is news to me. Very nice concept and execution. MSRP is awfully high though. I would love the version in .243 Winchester.

      • Anonymoose

        I want one rebarreled for that .450 Raptor cartridge (.460 S&W with the rim reduced to standard .308/8mm/.30-06 rim diameter).
        lol maybe I’d be better off just getting a .45-70 Big Boy.

    • Not sure why Henry would introduce a BLR competitor that’s $100 more expensive…

      • Gary Kirk

        It’s Henry bro 😉

      • Harry’s Holsters

        I’ll take a takedown BLR any day over the Henry. Especially in 358win!

      • Still some folks out there willing to pay extra for a rifle with a “Made In The USA” rollmark, I guess.

        • Anonymoose

          I dunno. Grorious Nippon is kinda like our 51st state.

          • Historically, it’s more like our 49th State, since MacArthur had long since Sam Houstoned it into a tiny little economic replica of the US by the time we started allowing our Northern Resource Area and Pineapplestan to call themselves states and gave them a seat at the Grownup’s Table.

          • Kivaari

            Hawaii has gun laws like Japan.

          • And they’re also completely overrun with feral hogs that are ruining hundreds of farms and destroying the habitats of dozens of critically endangered species; I wonder if there might some kind of connection there. ¯_( θ_θ)_/¯

          • Secundius

            Hawai’i’s Gun Laws are Imbedded in the Hawai’ian State Constitution by the Indigenous Hawai’ian Treaty before Hawai’i became a Territory of the USA in 7 July 1898…

          • Kivaari

            They sure passed bad gun laws since 1898.

          • Secundius

            The Kingdom of Hawai’i (1795), MADE this Provision as a Condition in becoming an American Controlled Territory…

          • Kefefs

            Not even close. Japan is a hell of a lot more restrictive than Hawaii.

          • Secundius

            Probably SO, But General Douglas MacArthur, Signed Off as the American Occupation Governor in Japan in 3 May 1947. On the NEW Post WW2 Japanese Constitution…

        • tiger

          Sorry, My Flag waving ended with my last GM made Car.

          • Unless it was a pre-2000 model year, you were probably waving a flag made in Mexico and China even then.

            We won a World War with our invincible industrial capacity, and now there aren’t even any freakin’ 100% Made In America pickup trucks anymore; if you drive through Abilene, Kansas you can probably hear the sound of Dwight Eisenhower spinning in his grave over the state of American heavy industry.

      • gunsandrockets

        The BLR has ugly proportions, it doesn’t look right. And current BLR production is only available in .22-250, .223, and .450. Pricing isn’t very good either, ranging from a low of $959 for the .22-250 up to $1,229 MSRP for the .223 takedown.

        • Stop kidding, the BLR and Long Ranger look almost identical. And who cares? They are game rifles, anyway.

          I don’t know where you got that the BLR is only available in those three calibers. Maybe Miroku isn’t literally making .308 BLRs right this second, but the rifles are available.

          The barrel band on the Lightweight is non-essential, I think, although I am not sure. You should be able to remove it; I removed the band on my Ruger 10/22 and saw significant accuracy increases.

          • iksnilol

            I dunno, the BLR looks weirder IMO. The receiver is kinda stretched and taller.

        • Tassiebush

          I just panicked and looked up their site. they do have other chamberings. It’s just a real pain in the posterior finding the tab that shows all the chamberings (it’s the arrow on the right of the bar showing chambering, weight, price etc). It initially looked like only those chamberings were in production because they are the default ones, but it’s still all those usual ones.

          • gunsandrockets

            Ah, you’re right. Very nonintuitive page design.

      • Blake

        Perhaps the strategy (& the price) is based on the BLR being made in Japan, while the Henry is made in New Jersey (& Wisconsin). I’m sure Browning/Howa has long since amortized the BLR tooling…

        • Yeah, maybe. I mean the margins probably aren’t very high on these items, so I guess that price is probably as low as they could go, but it still seems high to me; especially since we’re comparing it to the BLR, which ain’t exactly the cheapest levergun.

          • Kivaari

            I can’t see them selling many of these at all. The BLR sold well in it’s first year. The plastic gear disintegrated when hit with WD40. I see them sitting on gun store racks going no where. The Browning magnums having the pistol grip stock and cheek piece was hideous.

    • Southpaw89

      Have you shot one? Would be interesting to know how it rates, especially in comparison to the BLR.

    • Porty1119

      That’s beautiful. Shame it uses a detachable magazine; I would’ve loved a rotary internal with a round counter like the Savage 99.

      • Blake

        probably a patent issue…

        • gunsandrockets

          A solid top, side ejection rifle is more practical with a detachable magazine. The original Savage was an iron sighted top loader.

    • Kivaari

      I couldn’t figure out why Henry did that. The Browning BLR was never a good selling rifle in my region.

  • Oh no, you’ve got it all wrong. The best ranch gun of all time is the Uberti 1873 in .32-20!

    What? No, I’ve never owned or worked on a ranch. No, I don’t see what that has to do with anything.

    😉

    • Gary Kirk

      Truly, best “ranch” rifle is, and always will be a lever gun in 30-30.. And you have to be in the horseback shooting position..

      • Gary Kirk

        Maybe a sharps 1874 in 45-110.. But only if you’re in Wyoming, or Australia

      • .30-30 has half again too much powder, bro. 😉

        • Gary Kirk

          Read my own reply? /

      • iksnilol

        I always wanted a “medicine stick” AKA a lever action in 45/70. Oughta handle most things.

  • BrandonAKsALot

    Personally, I think it’s best place is bed side gun. You have 50 rounds in a low recoil and handy package that’s not nearly as loud as .223/5.56. It has adequate penetration and HP’s can help reduce wall penetration. Plus, it’s extremely simple. Direct blowback with a big ass bolt and not much else.

  • Sulaco

    I have always wanted one and saw one in a local shop, $1800 yikes and the ammo! Purchase of enough ammo to shoot the gun much =’s the price of the gun….sigh no Stargate for me.

    • Jared Vynn

      You should check out the 22tcm; over 2,000 fps out of a 5″ barrel with a 40 gr jacketed hollow point you can get for about 37 cents a round shipped. There is an ar15 upper available as well that uses m1 carbine magazines

      • Turner Classic Movies makes a bottleneck pistol cartridge?!? Wow, that channel’s even cooler than I thought!

      • Kivaari

        That’s more than .223 ammo.

      • Sulaco

        Interesting, but if its an upper wouldn’t the lower have to be modified to accept the M1 mags?

      • Amplified Heat

        TCM is using ever stubbier bullets, practically round nose at this point, whereas FN has nearly inch-long tumbling/fragmenting javelins in some loads.

        • Jared Vynn

          For the role the rounds are fulfilling the shape of the bullet doesn’t have enough impact to matter. Both rounds are meant for close quarters for the most part, and factory 22tcm loads often get greater velocity and energy out of a handgun than 5.7 does out of a rifle. Longer bullets for the same weight isn’t necessarily a good thing.

    • Bob

      Dean Anderson did not shoot the log, he simply made the comparison between weapons of terror and weapons of war. Amanda Tapping’s character shot the log.

      • Sulaco

        Ya I knew that and was going to correct it but it just seemed too didactic for this blog. He did order her to shoot it.

  • derfelcadarn

    P O S. You can quote me on that.

  • Gary Kirk

    Modern, extra ergonomic, high capacity, bullpup.. Garbage rod..

  • thedonn007

    I know Alex says that it is comfortable, but the grip just looks painful. No, I have never shot nor held a PS90 before.

    • It’s definitely quite different from almost anything else on the market, but surprisingly comfortable for a wide range of hand sizes.

      • Kivaari

        It feels good.

    • Gary Kirk

      It’s like taking an ugly girl home.. Don’t look right at first, then ya get a few under your belt, then she feels better.. Next thing you know.. It feels right.. Then you’re done.. Wake up wondering what you’ve done..

      • Y-man

        Wake up… 30 years later…

      • BigFED

        Or “Wake up and chew your arm off!”

  • Jose

    I have to be honest, the use of the PS90 as a ranch gun has its merits or disavantages. The only thing that I know about this weapon, and its ammo, was that it was introduced just as the Cold War was over; it prevented FN from going bankrupt; it was conceived as a non -essential Personal Defense Weapon, but its use by Peruvian Special Forces in the assault on the Japanese Embassy against the Tupac Amaru rebels, in 1998, catapulted into the international scene, and it helped in the development of the F2000 rifle. That’s how I see it.

    • Joseph Goins

      US Army contracts will keep FN from going bankrupt forever.

      • Gary Kirk

        Us DoD in general, now that they can manufacturer M4s as well

  • Bless you, Good Sir, for including a transcript for those of us on throttled bandwidth.

    As questionable a manstopper as 5.7×28 is with civilian ammo, I think the near total lack of recoil and natural pointability mean the P90 should still stay on the list of potential defensive firearms for home/vehicle use (for those who can afford them, of course), since head shots under stress are so snap-easy, and torso hits with instant follow-up shots barely even require aiming at typical defensive range.

    Where I think the platform can really shine, though– and the use to which I would immediately put it on the ranch– is as a saddle gun on a horse or ATV; most of the squirrels and rabbits I get are when I’m goin’ from one place to another and just happen to have a gun with me that’s suitable for the task.

    • Bjørn Vermo

      Why do you think civilian 5.7×28 is questionable? I would really like to see some serious testing of it with a selection of available bullets from the 16″ barrel. What I see from my pistol is that it seems to do quite a lot of damage.

      • “Questionable” as in “not definitive”, like anything 9mm or beyond; it will most definitely wreck shop on meat at the speeds it’s moving, but a bullet that light– which is more or less only available as a functional hollowpoint– is easily defeated by barriers and performance-degraded by heavy clothing. It’s certainly not the “glorified .22 magnum” its dectractors call it– google around, I’ve seen side by side comparisons and it’s like the difference between .380 and .357– but it is a bit less of a sure thing in likely defensive scenarios.

        I still wouldn’t hesitate to carry a PS90 or a Five-seveN defensively (if I could afford them), though; as I said, the pointability, accuracy, and lack of felt recoil are significant benefits to the platforms on their own.

        • Bjørn Vermo

          For critical use, paying the premium for a box of Elite ProtecTOR might be worthwhile. I would really like to see a series of proper tests, though. There is too much rumours and to little substance in many ammunition discussions. And, at least for me, it also counts that I can fire three aimed shots from the FiveseveN in the time it takes me to be back on target with a heavy caliber.

    • Secundius

      Consider the Johnson 5.7 Spitfire or IAI M888 5.7 Spitfire in M1 Carbine livery…

  • Gary Kirk

    Okay, can’t resist any longer.. Perhaps it truly is a “tools” toy…

    No offense intended, just couldn’t help myself any longer, and no-one else said it

  • Badwolf

    For me, it’s a Toyool. And I use it to hunt squirrelk.

  • George

    Anyone tried wildcatting one with a full cartridge width 6.8-7mm (.277, .284) bullet?

    Kind of .300 BLK but downsized a bit for the 5.7 baseline cartridge.

    • Kivaari

      The case can’t go over .25. It’s derived from the .25 ACP stretttched.

      • Gary Kirk

        Actually, the 25ACP was .251.. Could make a cute little downsized .375.. Put a .243 bullet in it.. Then they could go on safari for their backyard plains game.. Rabbits, and what not.. Might have a box turtle charge them.. better safe than sorry..

      • George

        The case shoulder and base are 7.9 mm / .311; where on earth do you get .25 ACP from?

        Chop off the neck, trim back to full bore shoulder and insert bullet..,

        Obvious first step is chop off the neck and measure the case inside diameter, but I haven’t got any 5.7 in the house…

        • Kivaari

          Hyperbole. The little case is so small that it may as well be a .25 ACP. Shoving it up to .277 caliber would bring the velocity down and you’d get nearly no performance. It is a cute rifle. I’d like one. They are not serious guns. A 9mm variant would be better.

          • George

            The 5.7×28 has 0.9 cc case capacity, compared to .300 BLK 1.45 cc and .223 1.85 cc. Powder volumes probably (guessing) 0.8 cc, 1.25 cc, 1.75 cc respectively. The hypothetical 6.8-7mm version to same OAL would be about 0.85 cc total est 0.65 loaded. So (roughly) half the energy of a .300 BLK, which is adequately used on 200+ lb game. About 1,900 fps at 110 grains, nothing to laugh at; close to .30 carbine numbers (no surprise). .30 carbine has 1.35 cc total case but 38ksi chamber pressure; 5.7 and presumed derivatives are 50k.

          • Kivaari

            It would be fun to see. I’d like to see a quality bolt action, like a Sako, made in 5.7. Then any gunsmith could make up wildcat barrels. A great experiment.
            I’d like to see more effort with the .30 Carbine case. The 5.7 Johnson Spitfire was a very good round. Cute in 6mm.
            But do we need to keep taking little cases and making them into cartridges that perform OK for pistol rounds and then think they have enough advantages to displace existing ammunition and weapons systems?
            The sabot use in 9mm has produced some interesting results. I like that since no new pistols or SMGs needed building. None of the “new” proposed or tested rounds have anything actually new beyond stuffing a new high performance bullet in them. I go back decades where I promoted the 6.5mm Carcano with a lightweight low draq bullet. Watching it come up in conversations now, in the form of several “new” 6.5-6.8mm caliber rounds is a kick. Reading the results from the 1900 Italian study.

          • As far as .30 Carbine wildcats are concerned, check out the recent Garin SureStrike family of cartridges. Paul Garin has necked the Carbine case to .17, .20, .22, 6mm, and .25. These wildcats were then paired with a Cooper Arms Model 38.

            http://www.surestrikesystem.com/

            There was also James Calhoon’s .19 Badger.

            http://www.jamescalhoon.com/

          • Kivaari

            Nice work by those people.

      • ostiariusalpha

        5.7×28 is definitely not derived from the .25 ACP; it has no parent case, and is entirely original.

    • Gary Kirk

      Technically the .300 BLK isn’t a “wildcat” as it’s larger than the parent cartridge.. And “wildcats” we’re inherently parent cases necked down to accept a smaller bullet in the attempt at more velocity.. See Weatherby, in general.. But I guess the term may apply, haven’t heard anyone come up with anything better for the current trend of over-sizing cases on the same rim.. Maybe we should call them “Catwilds”??

    • It has been done. Look up the 7x28mm Penna and 7x23mm Penna.

  • Kivaari

    I recently picked up a Beretta CX4 and a companion PX4 9mm. The carbine with a 1.6.6 inch barrel is the same length as an M4 SBR 11.5″.
    Cost used was just over $300 (a very low price). I’ve see them used for about $650 and that is a fair price for what it does. It is NOT as easy to shoot as an AR15 having a SSA trigger. If both have the standard trigger the groups at only 50 yards are about the same. Beyond 80 yards the little 9mm just drops so fast that hitting at longer ranges is harder. But, it is a great little truck gun, just in case you come across activity needing a gun. Standard magazines are 17 round and interchange with the pistol. 20 round mags are out there, but why? If you get the CX4-M9/M92 variant you can get 30 round magazines.

    • Amplified Heat

      Yeah, that’s a criminal price for a CX4; kudos. The PS90 is quite comparable to the 9mm, but has lighter recoil and can also reach out to 200yds if needed, and still hit the target.

      • Kivaari

        I couldn’t pass it up. It was like new condition, like I couldn’t see that it had been fired outside the factory. AND it came with 4 magazines. A GG&G QD slking swivel cost an extra $35. Then by chance Beretta had the “Buy any PX4 and get two free magazines and pouch” offer, so I ordered a pistol.

  • Kivaari

    The awkward reload is a minor issue for most of us never getting close to combat. I HEAR that magazines break quite easy. Any truth to that?

  • randomswede

    I’ll argue that the P90 was built to be a PDW; for when you have no good reason to think you will need a weapon but don’t want to go “naked”.
    It’s a pistol replacement not a rifle replacement and intended for artillery/signals/logistics type personnel.

  • Richard

    As of typing there is a used ps90 on gunbroker with some EOTECH on it for under $1000 right now if that matters to anyone

    • Twilight sparkle

      $1000 isn’t an especially great deal depending on its condition

      • Richard

        I thought of the carnik con video when reading this article so I looked on gunbroker and it was on the first page. I remember seeing the guns brand new for a little over $1000

  • Mike

    I own a 5.7 pistol, I have carried it with 198 ammo. The big question that has never been answered is “how effective is this against a person with and without a bullet resistant vest”?

      • ostiariusalpha

        I… don’t think you linked to the right video. But, if you are meaning the one Brass Fetcher made on 5.7 and IIIA soft body armor, then you can definitely see that FN nerfed the civilian rounds to make them not penetrate from the Five-seveN pistol.

        • Apparently, Disqus interpreted my linking to a search on Brassfetcher for “5.7×28” as “a playlist of 100 Brassfetcher videos”.

          Thanks, Disqus.

          Anyway, yeah, go to Brassfetcher and search “5.7×28”.

          • Cmex

            Nat, fancy seeing you here. I’ll get back on 25-45 sharps in a couple days. In the meantime, where’d you get the brassfetcher stuff? My computer’s been telling me it’s nonexistant for years.

          • Their YouTube channel is a good start, but they moved their website to here: https://brassfetcher.wordpress.com/

  • Giolli Joker

    Toy or tool, if I could own it I would, it’s cool.

    I don’t get the equation:
    -9 Luger is good for hog;
    -5.7×28 is no good for coyote.

  • Tassiebush

    It’d be great to see some low cost bolt action rifles/carbines given a polymer full length stock and open sights (preferably well thought out ones) for this type of niche but with the usual scope mounting options. kind of like the CZ 527 full wood model but cheaper and more utilitarian. chamber them in the intermediate cartridges and a few full size ones. I’m sort of thinking it could be a version of the Ruger American rifle, Savage Edge or similar. Basically something relatively robust that can sit under or between stuff but be pulled out easily.
    As for the PS90 the size of what you are shooting is going to be a huge factor. It comes across that you don’t feel overly confident in this combo for the larger pests Alex. I can see why because I imagine in your context the last thing you would want is to have to worry about getting the right angle for shot placement due to a lack of power. I doubt this would be a great option for a texas heart shot on fleeing coyotes or pigs and realistically you could expect to be shooting at these animals as they run away from you. With that sort of shot you need something that’d go through bone and tissue into the boiler room or at least smash things enough to stop them running. It doesn’t sound like 5.7 is enough. Since shot placement becomes more important it then becomes also a question of whether it is accurate enough to be placed where it is needed. Those groups weren’t bad but it’d be interesting to see how well it’d do at further distances.
    With pests it’s a different economy to opportunistically bagging game. Pests cost you money if you don’t kill them. This justifies the use of a more potent cartridge.

  • aka_mythos

    I think the 5.7x28mm is one of the few cartridges that has attempted to operate most efficiently in the long pistol – short rifle barrel length which is why it hasn’t been as widely adopted. I think unfortunately the biggest thing going against it is that it’s ideal barrel length would land it in NFA territory and if you have to carry a 16.5″ barreled weapon you might as well carry 5.56 in an AR or something similar. Until FN comes up with a way to sell a PS-90 as a “pistol” configuration to give it that shorter originally intended barrel length the only thing it’s offering is ambidextrous design and ergonomics.

    I think FN Five Seven is the real selling point by creating an ecosystem of pistol and carbine utilizing the same ammo. Though this has been eroded in recent years by the ubiquity of 9mm carbines, in general while 9mm sees improved performance from rifle length barrels any thing beyond 6-7″ only improves inertia as velocity gains flatline. I think if we saw wider availability of 10mm or 357Sig carbines we would have an easier time of doing apples to apples comparisons to cartridges that perform most efficiently at similar barrel lengths.

    Had 5.7x28mm been marketed better I think it was poised to fill the niche now filled by .300blk as an easily suppressed round commonly shot from SBRs, but that ship has sailed.

  • mazkact

    For a truck gun an 1892 Winchester carbine clone in .357 magnum is hard to beat.

  • Joe

    Wow, that’s a heck of a review for “off label use”.
    I’d trust 5.7 with machined copper projectiles and/or a “double tap” trigger that actually works.
    25 year old ergonomics that are still lauded; makes me wonder what we’ve learned about the subject since.

  • mjsteele

    I bought one on a whim, and have not been dissatisfied with it, but it really is a niche weapon, and finding that niche is the rub.

  • hcpookie

    Surprised no one has pointed out the somewhat obvious notion that this is a great weapon for ladies! Wife loves mine (claims it as hers) and tends to favor that over other higher recoil rifles at the range. She’s proficient with her AK74 but the P90 is arguably her favorite.

    I could see it perfectly suited for youth and newcomers who might have flinch issues. Everyone has seen it on TV so the appeal is there, perhaps more than say a standard .22 LR for when you are introducing people to shooting who may otherwise prefer not to participate.

    And yes it was designed as a pistol replacement, not a front-line weapon. So it has its limitations and isn’t a “jack of all trades”.

    • Amplified Heat

      Definitely youth/kids, and new shooters, and everybody else

  • Cymond

    Some people keep saying that SMGs are obsolete, replaced by modern SBRs. Others argue that SMGs are niche firearms, and offer advantages that a SBR can’t.

    If SMGs are a niche, then a sem-auto PS90 without AP ammo is a niche within a niche.

    • Cmex

      Uuuuuuuuuhhh… 21’st century M1 Carbine?

  • Daniel M. Ramos

    I was wondering what might be a better PDW that was just as cool as the PS90 for those that are into that. Wouldn’t the new IWI Uzi pro SB do the job just as well and offer more flexibility? I am sure the arm brace versions of the Uzi pro is cheaper than a PS90. If you want to SBR the Uzi pro I think it still matches the PS90 on price. I think I would rather be shooting 9mm anyway. The fact that you can quickly throw on a 16″ barrel for longer range shooting and then go back to the short barrel makes the Uzi much more versatile than the PS90. Of course I am speaking of the silly-villain version of both.

    Hey wait a minute. I haven’t seen a comprehensive review of the Uzi pro with arm brace on TFB come to thinking of it. What gives? 🤔

  • JASON B

    I own a PS90 SBR configured similarly to yours. I also own several Five seveN pistols. Admittedly I have grown to become a fan of the 5.7×28 rounds. After all of my research I have concluded 5.7×28 in certain loadings is as effective as any major service pistol round. That is true out of the pistol and the rifle. Think of it as a 9mm +p+ that can penetrate ClassIIIA kevlar and still go on to penetrate 12″.

    Taking game with the 5.7? I am not a hunter. If I was I probably would not use 5.7. However, I have seen many photos online of people taking hogs, coyotes, etc with 5.7mm. Even with the enemic SS197 round, the damage looks surprisingly devastating.

    We also know the shooter at FT Hood used the same anemic SS197 round and put down an awful lot of people with it. Those who were not hit center mass and killed, were hit in the extremities. These victims were taken out of the fight quickly because the zippy 5.7 round shattered major bones like femurs and pelvises.

    I’m pretty confident the 5.7 is just as effective as any major service handgun caliber. 5.7 is not a rifle cartridge, it is a special handgun round that is light and moves twice as quickly as other typical defensive pistol rounds. It is somewhere in between a pistol and rifle round.

    • Cmex

      At least a few tests show 7.62×25 can do everything 5.7×28 can, all while hitting harder and taking out a bigger channel.

      • L Cavendish

        sounds like a 25% larger round…so duh!!!

  • JoelC

    I’m not saying that .223 isnt a good Coyote round, but here in Illinois plenty of people use .17HMRs for coyotes and have no problem taking them down. I would think that with a regular 16 inch barrelled PS90, the 5.7mm round would be just fine.

  • UCSPanther

    5.7 x 28 would be a good choice of cartridge for an M1 carbine or an MP18-style firearm.

    • maodeedee

      The 5.7 Johnson would be better and thats a 30 carbine round necked down to .223. at one time it was available as a factory round and once in while you can come across a box of it.

      To make the 5.7 x 28 work in an M1 carbine would require a radical alteration of the boltface and extractor and different magazines while the 5.7 Johnson only requires a different barrel, and the 5.7 Johnson has greater case capacity for better ballistics.

      • UCSPanther

        Also known as .22 Spitfire. I hear that M1 carbines that were factory chambered in that cartridge are very collectible.

  • Brocus

    That was somewhat lengthy for not actually answering the question posed in the title. Might have wanted to wait with this until after shooting at some coyotes?

  • Cmex

    It looks like 5.7×28 is alright for pest control. Too bad it doesn’t seem to be very good at its intended purpose of stopping men.

    • Leo

      are you nuts?

      • Cmex

        Nope.
        Look up P90, Five-seveN, and 5.7×28 stopping power complaints.

  • Greg Tag

    Toy
    The cartridge is indistinguishable from a .22 Mag in a Non SBR rifle application. For example CCI Maxi-Mag chart shows 40 grain bullet at 1987 fps in s 16 inch barrel.

    The French Defense Ministry could have bought a ( perfected) Ruger 10-22 Magnum with a folding stock and factory 25 round magazines and had a PDW for truck drivers and clerks at way less than the P90

    • maodeedee

      But are you comparing the velocities of the 5.7 with a 40 grain bullet that are taken from the 10.30 barrel length of the P90 to the velocities of the 22 magnum from a 16 inch barrel?

      According to Ballistics By The Inch, a 22 magnum that produces 1999 fps from a 16 inch barrel will only produce 1800 fps out of a 10 inch barrel. Most velocity figures for the 5.7×28 are taken from the 10 inch barreled P90 not the civilian legal PS90 with the 16 inch barrel.

      Additionally a rimless bottleneck cartridge will always feed better than a long rimmed cartridge which is why the Ruger 10-22 magnum was never perfected, and that’s why it was discontinued.

      • Greg Tag

        I was quite specific that I was referring to non SBR applications. I was also not addressing case shape, feeding issues or anything else – simply that the 5.7 is NOT a spectacular cutting edge performer but merely an expensive center fire solution that is functionally equivalent to a cartridge that is illegal for deer hunting in most states.

        It is unmistakably French and the marketing department at FN must have bribed the French MOD specification writers.

        A 9mm carbine, even a PDW based on the AR platform would have cost a lot less, not crapped up the LOG system with esoteric complexity and saved a whole lot of money for the French taxpayers . It did apparently make a lot of money for Belgian/ Walloon region taxpayers. I suspect an AR based 9mm PDW would be a much better weapon too. Of course I’m neither a French taxpayer or French soldier, so the discussion is academic to me, but I remain unimpressed by the actual utility of the 5.7 cartridge,

  • John Adams

    If FN chambered the PS90 in a readily available cartridge, it would probably fly off the shelves, and stay off online gun auction sites. It’s a very interesting design, and when in an SBR configuration, I could see it being a viable rifle for various tasks if chambered in a round that made sense. Unfortunately, it’s forever bound solely to the 5.7x28mm cartridge, and has a weird mag design that was probably the end result of having too many engineers in the same room for too long. New, the mags probably work great, but will likely be problematic over time. Magazines are one of those things where simpler is better.

    Just get a civilian AUG or Tavor variant. Yeah, they’re longer than the P90, but they’re still super compact, have that cool space age look all the kids are after these days, and are chambered for a real cartridge that is far more versatile than FN’s ticket to a NATO contract.

  • L. Roger Rich

    Cool unique toy used in the Si Fi movie Stargate that made them popular . Then the US Government limited the types of ammo available.

  • Leo

    5.7х28 will kill coyote just fine, check round specs. Besides it 197SS by far is not best type of round for it. The only disadvantage of this rifle is actual cost of ammo, last two years I own it price is never been cheaper than $16 per 50 and it is going up slightly this year. That is disapointing.

  • Matt Grizz Gregg

    I’d rate the PS90 as slightly more useful than the Taurus judge, it can be used for self defense and hunting but it’s far from a good choice. With that said I’d love to own one and SBR it, nice compact firepower, it’s a great replacement for a pistol.

    • BigFED

      Going SBR reduces much of the performance! I know it LOOKS taticool, but it ain’t worth the cost and effort to go SBR, IMHO!

      The “Judge” and its clones (the S&W Governor, etc) has to be the most over rated handguns in production! It is just short of needing a wheelbarrow to carry, a tripod to shoot, FIVE shots for its size, unimpressive results from the shot shell loads (which confirms the advice that the .45 Colt should be used for defense), etc. Did I mention ONLY five shots for a handgun! One can carry two or three small or medium framed semi-autos for as much effort it would take to carry that behemoth!

      It’s OK if it is used as a farm or ranch gun, but otherwise a solution looking for a problem. Even then it cannot be relied on to pattern enough to take care or that snake around ones ankles!

  • For this purpose, a Ruger American Ranch Rifle in 5.56 NATO or 300 BLK would be close to ideal.

  • supergun

    I understand that many policemen and secret service uses the 5.7 pistol. I have one, and I would not want to be shot with one of these bullets. Another hogwash story.

  • Tony Miller

    One of the things that drive me crazy is how these guys hijack discussions and it ends
    up a discussion about every other gun besides the one that’s on topic. If I want to
    talk about Henry or blr I’ll look for one that is featured as the subject.

  • BigFED

    About the ammo… One thing that many are “over looking” in the price of ammo is that the 5.7×28 ammo is priced for a box of 50 while the 5.56/.223 ammo is priced by boxes of 20. And compared to a box of quality 9mm ammo, the 5.7×28 is not that much more!

    Another thing, is that magazine capacity is one MAJOR factor! While ONE round may not be a “stopper”, that ability for rapid follow up shots are a major advantage! And as others have pointed out, the advantage of individual round weight of almost three to one (advantage 5.7).

    And going to an SBR on the FN… Whatever advantages one had with the rifle and its 16″ barrel is GONE!!!

  • Kent San

    Dumbass review showing Goober F-ard shooting the carbine for 5 mins and then he pulls the “tool vs toy” conclusion from his a** with no discussion of the round’s ballistic attributes, ammo options, engagement ranges etc. Furthermore, shooting a coyote effectively or not, is far from the determining factor that it might be an effective tool. Loved the straw man wise a** remark at the end made in an attempt to preempt criticism of this waste of video, by asserting fans of the round would go so far as to say it’s fine for hunting elk. No, they don’t.

    I am glad to know that it doesn’t bounce around too much in a golf car though, especially if I ever think I might wish to shoot someone in my foursome around the 5th hole. Wish I could get the 5 mins back.

    • maodeedee

      I think it’s time you got over it and moved on with your life.

      • Kent San

        Nothing to get over. Saw the review posted, watched it, it’s the work of a moron. Commented. Nothing more.

  • Tom

    The 5.7 round from a pistol (about 300 fps slower) had devastating effect at Ft. Hood.

    Taking max ranges into account, I’m sure a coyote/deer/javelina wouldn’t know the difference between that round and something else that kills it…

  • MartinWoodhead

    Its a cold war relic it was meant to replace all the old pistol calibre submachine guns unfortuntly the cold war ended. Plus nato thought cut down assualt rifles and bullpups were the answer.
    Its possiblythe most unsuitable farmers weapon ever ok a belt fed or a .338 would be worse.

  • Harold

    The demands of the new owner and their daily click bait is tiresome. I think I read this article 10 years ago.

  • andygoldusa .

    Yeah, probably not a good gun! The US Secret Service uses it. I would think they could choose whatever gun/caliber they want, and they chose this. So, I guess when they want to shoot squirrels on the White House grounds, then they are propely armed! All sarcasm aside, if there was a better tool for the job, i think they would user that instead. Also, that terrorist psychologist who shot up that bad a few years back, did so with quote tragic results! And, that was worth this caliber bullet fired from a pistol, not a rifle/carbine.

  • idahoguy101

    To bad FN didn’t make it in 10mm Auto

  • tiger

    I want it in .30 carbine instead.

  • maodeedee

    There is a YUGE amount of confusion about the ballistics of this cartridge because velocity figures are almost always taken from either the P90 that has a 10.30 inch barrel, or the civilian version, the PS90, which has a legal minimum 16 inch barrel.

    The FN 5.7 pistol has a 4.8 inch barrel and velocities are usually something like 20% LESS than either a 10 inch barrel or even more so from a 16 inch barrel. Also the FN pistol is often compared to the 22 magnum rimfire, but there again the distinction is never made that you’re comparing the 5.7 FN PISTOL velocities with 22 Magnum RIFLE velocities. And this leads it’s detractors to say, “See, it only does 22 magnum velocities, it’s no better than a kel-tec P-30!” And that’s without realizing that the Kel-tec P-30 with it’s short barrel comes nowhere near 22 mag rifle velocities.

    And then people look only at velocities without considering bullet weight and they take the highest velocity obtained from the longest barrel using the lightest possible projectile and proclaim, “See, it’s almost the same as a 223!”

  • Matt Wilder

    The.22 Hornet worked fine for dropping coyotes and nuisance animals for years at my grandparents place in Pennsy, and works fine here and now. I can’t see using the 5.6X28 as a replacement, unless I needed a volley of fire to take down coyotes, as one well placed shot does just fine with the Hornet. However, I wouldn’t object to trying one out, but somehow I don’t think I’d be making the switch based on portability alone; right tool, right job. I can also say I never really had much problem with a rifle being too, too cumbersome in a truck, to the extent that I wish I had a very short length piece. In self defense, sure it’s an issue, but for varmint dispatch, it never bothered me. Shooting from the cab sucks for the ears anyway. I’ve done it with everything from .22, to a 870 12 gauge, to a .308 Ruger M77 on the fly, and the one thing they all share in common is that shooting confined is hell on the hearing.

  • Gunner4guy

    Having been able to shoot the P90 with military/LE ammo I’ll have to agree with all the comments in the video. A hunting round for the game named is quite right but coyotes — like Alex says, ‘No way’. A PS90 would make a great truck gun…. but not at the asking price – maybe in beter caliber though??? Given a choice I’d take an XM177, an AUG or a AK variant for a truck gun which would also allow me to keep with readily available ammo. Not sure if there’s anything in 7.62 NATO that interests me as of now…. maybe later.