Firearms Food for Thought: Is 10mm Underappreciated?

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When you walk into any sizable gun store the options can be a bit overwhelming (or absolutely thrilling, depending on your viewpoint). Firearms in a number of calibers with countless features and options are displayed on the walls, within glass counters, and on the hips of employees. And when you try to engage said employees in conversation, whether with questions or simply to take a look at a specific gun, you’re frequently hit with opinions as varied as the guns on display. If you ask what the best handgun caliber is – “best” being used somewhat loosely – you’re going to get a different answer depending on a few factors. Are you male? Female? Tall? Short? Do you have that tough, capable look or do you appear a little stand-offish, maybe even timid? Sure, appearances can be deceiving, but a lot of assumptions are made based on them. So when the suggested handgun calibers start rolling out, they vary depending on different factors and, of course, opinions. But when those suggestions are made, how often is the 10mm among them? Is the 10mm underappreciated – and underused?

The 10mm hasn’t been around long, not by ammo standards. It has about 33 years behind it, and unlike some calibers it didn’t enjoy near-immediate widespread use. As many of you know the late Col. Jeff Cooper was behind its creation; Cooper wanted a round with greater ballistics than the .45 ACP provides and a significantly more powerful punch than the 9mm. Six years after the 10mm was designed the FBI selected it for use by agents, but it didn’t take long for them to change their minds. The round may have met the requirements for overall power but it came with recoil in excess of what most agents could easily master which, of course, played a role in the creation of the .40 S&W.

Of course, as with any gun it is possible to master the 10mm. Many gun owners love it, and not only for use on the range. Many use them for both home defense and self-defense – yes, it makes a good EDC. Then there’s its hunting applications which are varied and, quite frankly, awesome.

What do you think? Is the 10mm underappreciated or is it right where it should be (which is definitely not with the popular kids of the handgun world, not when it comes to self-defense, anyway)?

Sidenote: Yes, it is possible to talk about the 10mm without getting into a debate about the Bren Ten. Just saying.



katie.ainsworth

Katie is an avid shooter, hunter, military journalist, and Southern girl. Firearms are her passion whether at the range or on a spot-and-stalk after a big buck. She’s a staff writer at The Firearm Blog and writes about guns, hunting, and the military for various publications both online and in print such as Outdoor Life, Handguns, and Shooting Illustrated. Shoot her a message at ainsworth.kat@usa.com


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  • 6.5x55Swedish

    Shouldn’t Norma get some credit for the round as well? Sure, Cooper was the one to think
    of the need for a 10mm pistol round (but really I’ve thought of the need for so many theoretical cartridges that if that is what should be credited them I’m a king in the firearms world). Norma took it from an idea to a real cartridge.

    • El Duderino

      It would take the guy with “Swedish” in his name to point this out.

  • Anonymoose

    If only there were more guns in it, including carbines (people have been begging for 10mm SMGs for years, and the only one I’ve ever seen is a conversion kit for full-size Uzis). I think the P220 in 10mm is a step in the right direction, but I checked SIG’s website the other day and it looks like they dropped the non-camo version.

    • kipy

      Hk did have an MP5 in 10mm, but obviously its out of our reach. 🙁

      • Anonymoose

        Ah crap I forgot. Comment edited to reflect that. What I really want, though, is a Kriss or MPX in 10mm.

        • iksnilol

          CZ Evo could work?

          • Anonymoose

            Perhaps…

          • Edward

            Would you really want a straight blow back 10mm?

          • iksnilol

            Why not? If the bolt is heavy enough it should work just fine.

            Plenty of Hi-Points converted to 10mm work without problem.

          • Chris

            MagTech in 460roland or 10mm easy peasy…my 460roland(230g@1400+fps) shoots45acp as well.
            Assume 10 mm lwould digest 40short and weak also…

          • Matt

            No, it won’t eat short and weak. But if you go Glock, you can buy a .40 barrel to go with it.

        • nova3930

          I’d drop $1500 on a 10mm MPX in about 2 seconds….

    • Katie A

      The P220 in 10mm is being marketed more towards hunters now, hence the color. That said I have to agree, I’d like to see it in black – and I use it for hunting.

      • SteveK

        BLACK for sure!

    • Nicks87

      I was seriously debating a G40, P220 or 1911 in 10mm but the availability of 10mm ammo killed it for me. FMJ training ammo is non-existent, only a few sporting goods stores in my area carry 10mm at all, and what they do carry is pretty weak. I went with a G41 instead.

      • nova3930

        yeah, closest thing to “training” ammo is the PPU stuff and it’s really 40 in terms of power level. Luckily I’ve got a Cabelas close by that carry’s the Sig branded 10mm. It’s “warmish” without breaking the bank.

      • Mechman13

        Underwood ammo sells full power loads.
        I was actually just testing out my Glock 40 with their 200gr FMJs and my suppressor yesterday.

        • NoNamesOnTheNet

          I shoot 180gr Underwood Gold Dots as my carry load. I love them.

        • Timbo1

          How did it that load sound suppressed? Is it safe without hearing protection?

          • Mechman13

            It was about the same noise level as my .45, but with the extra crack of the supersonic rounds. I still went with light hearing protection, but it’s not too bad. On the other hand, it was also ~700ft/lbs at the muzzle, so it made up for the noise level.

          • Timbo1

            Awesome, not bad at all. Would be super convenient to hunt with a suppressed 10mm instead of breaking out the suppressed rifle.

          • Mechman13

            That is part of the grand plan, although I also have a stubby little T/C encore that isn’t too unwieldy. Still, with one or the other wearing the can, I’ll be able to quietly hunt and still deal with any large predators/moose/elephants that come my way.

        • sean

          who’s making a threaded barrel for the G40?

      • Dan

        Holy crap did you really say you were debating a 1911? I never thought i would see the day that you would say 1911 without it being followed by the words yawn, crap, suck, fanboys or stupid. I am going to go drink myself stupid now, life just doesn’t make sense anymore. Of course I am just kidding…..slightly

        • Nicks87

          I own an STI tactical in 9mm and I used to have a Kimber custom. I just don’t think they are that great. The STI is a safe queen that I rarely shoot and I kept the Kimber around for a few years just to loan out to people who where considering buying a 1911.

      • Timbo1

        Hand load. That’s what I am getting into, saves on money and you can load it to your needs.

    • Austin

      A 10mm Kriss Vector is on the way.

      • srhymer

        I’ll be in my bunk.

        • Brett

          Intentional or not, I dig the firefly reference.

      • Hanzo

        Awesome, can’t wait. Any word on lead time? Thanks for the info.

      • Conner

        But then there’s news of Kriss possibly going bankrupt. So don’t get your hopes up too high.

    • James Maddox

      There have been 10mm smgs in the past. There was an MP5 chambered in 10mm

    • srhymer

      A 10mm carbine has been on my wish list since the round debuted. I love my Tanfoglio Witness (put a 20-22 lb spring in it, though!) — it’s handled all of the loads without hiccup, save the fastest, and they’re cheap; the Glock 20 was a good choice, too, they just don’t sit right in my hand.

      • Roguewriter

        Like I put in my other post, I have the MechTech Systems carbine unit for the Glock 20. I’ve even modified a couple of 30 round aftermarket Glock 21 magazines for it. There’s a youtube video on how to do that. Solid gun, does not feel cheap in any way, and is just amazing fun to shoot.

    • 6.5x55Swedish

      I’d like a m/45 (swedish K) in 10mm Norma

  • What do you think Katie?

    • Katie A

      Alex, I think it’s about the individual reader’s thoughts rather than my personal opinion.

      • I can only speak for myself, but I want to hear what you think. Is 10mm underappreciated? If so, why? If it isn’t, why not? Sure, some people will disagree with your position, but that is the very essence of an editorial.

        • Hanzo

          IMHO – yes, the 10mm is definitely under appreciated.
          I feel the 10mm is one of the most versatile cartridges around, especially for reloaders. I understand that the 10mm is perhaps a bit much for some users in the recoil department, but I’m a big fan of it’s stopping power, more than a .357 but just under the .41. I have owned a Springfield Omega (still kicking myself for selling it) and now own a Kimber tle II in 10mm. I love the gun and, when I used to shoot pins, I saw the results of the power of the mighty 10 on a daily basis.
          Now Alex, what do you think?

          • Drunk Possum

            Alex has one of everything, two of some. Alex doesn’t think, he buys now, regrets later.

      • Mark

        Yes, 10mm is under-appreciated.

  • MissileMech

    As I get older, my arthritic hands like handgun recoil less and less. It would be great to see a 10mm carbine like a Mini 14, Camp Carbine or a folder of some sort come on the market.

    • ozzallos .

      Mectec makes one of their carbine conversions for a glock as I recall. Hickock45 has a review on his channel for it. Never heard anything more from Iraqiveteran8888 about their conversion of a highpoint carbine from 40 to 10 after their success with in converting a hipoint pistol. They do exist. Barely.

  • Jjpaul

    A little, it’s ballistics are awesome but I think most people just don’t know much about it. Plus it has high recoil and cost.

  • Patrick K Martin

    I’m putting it my new book in the form of a much modified H&K P9s Sport (5″ barrel). If the round had a good, simple, affordable pistol which helped to moderate the recoil and which didn’t cost a fortune (and had magazines available) I think it could still break into the 9mm/40S&W/.45acp world. Sadly, I don’t think that is likely to happen.

  • ozzallos .

    Isn’t most factory stuff loaded down while the “real” 10mm gets a bit pricey? Might be a part of the reason its under appreciated… It appears to be no better than 40s&w at first glance.

    • Anonymoose

      There’s always Corbon, Buffalo Bore, and Doubletap.

      • Roguewriter

        I’ve shot those and I still go back to Underwood for my full power ammo.

    • Austin

      With Freedom Munitions and Underwood around it doesn’t cost much if any more than .45

      • NoNamesOnTheNet

        18 bucks a box/20 for Underwood. I pay 26 for Hornady Custom in the store.

    • aka_mythos

      Pricey is relative… It’s the stuff that’s loaded down to .40 loads that is overpriced. The boutique self defense rounds are comparably priced to other calibers.

    • Hanzo

      Try shooting a 180 gr bullet out of a .40 then.

  • Dickie

    Another open ended do my work cause i kno nothing question from katie.

    • Evil_Bonsai

      No need to be so harsh. It’s meant to start a discussion amongst users, not a dissertation on the merits of the round. I, for one, would like to have myself a Rock Island Big Rock (6″ barrel, 16+1 capacity) but the price is a little out of my range for the moment.

  • Grand Power P40 in 10mm

    • jake

      you have no idea how much I want one of those. I think if I can find one for a decent price, it will by my first 10mm.

  • Rnasser Rnasser

    For a multipurpose field pistol, the 10 mm is great. Power and range similar to magnum revolver calibers (and these revolvers rule this niche) in a semiauto, and you can use downloaded ammo if you wish.
    For a combat round, it doesn’t offer anyfhing worth the recoil and long round.
    So, the 10 mm is exactly where it should be.

  • Rodney Jenkins

    357 sig is missing from the photo

    • marathag

      So is 40 Super, the Sig’s bigger brother

  • kipy

    I was gifted a Glock 20 by my father-in-law maybe 3 years ago, definitely not the model I would have chose, but I won’t scuff at a free gun. I wear a large sized glove and the it seems a bit too large for my hands.

  • Jay

    The 10mm is a perfect round for SMGs. But, with the SMG role being taken over by short barrel assault rifles, the round lost most of it’s potential market.
    As handgun ammo, the 10mm is not that great, because of numerous factors already mentioned.

  • LG

    10 mm auto is an excellent round. Unfortunately many factory rounds now download the cartridge because of non ramped weapons such as the Colt Delta Elite.The Dan Wessons such as the Bruin and Silverback have no such problems as the previously mentioned horse that’s on it’s way to the glue factory. Also no Smith and Wesson 10- models had any trouble handling the cartridge. If the round is loaded to it’s full potential it has power, punch, and accuracy. Unless one is willing to dedicate time to mastering this stallion of a cartridge, do not blame the horse. Blame yourself.

  • Cesare Renzi

    I personally find the 10mm too barky for my tastes.

  • Some Guy

    If ammo costs were down and firearm choices were up for the 10mm it would be my preferred field handgun round. I’d prefer it to the .357 and .45 ACP.

    I’m seriously considering future purchase of a Sig P220 10mm as a hunting pistol but I wish there were more revolver options. A Ruger GP100-ish or S&W 610 (No Lock) with 5 inch barrel would be wonderful.

    Yes, it’s underrated.

    • Anonymoose

      For revolvers, there’s .41 Mag. lol

      • Jwedel1231

        Similar calibers, similar positions. Very powerful, very useful, under appreciated. I personally would like to see both of these calibers get a lot more recognition.

        • Edeco

          10mm isn’t my thing, not a fan, but yeah, Ruger needs to render forth a 41 RM gp100

          • Anonymoose

            Even in a 5-shot?

          • Edeco

            Sure, that’d be fine by me. Five is kind of, you know, sportier. If it were 22 LR, that would get tedious, but five nice fire breathing magna…

      • Paul White

        I really want one of each TBH. Great rounds.

    • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

      I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 10mm that I just took to the range this weekend. It’s a fantastic gun.

      You can get a GP100 converted to 10mm as well, though it does double the cost of the firearm.

      • Edeco

        If I hit the lotto and the man were available I’d like a Reeder 41 Mag GP100 conversion, but really expensive for me and, you know, I don’t really doubt the his quality but stuff happens even with mature designs. If it started shooting around corners or something, could end up being a hassle to own.

  • Sianmink

    10mm fell out of favor because of the recoil issues, but also because the early 10mm guns were tearing themselves apart. We’ve actually come a long way in metallurgy since then, and new 10mm guns will last as long as the 45s. There’s been a recent resurgence in 10mm popularity as a result, but who can tell if it will continue?

    • LG

      Only the poorly designed weapons for the caliber succumbed to damage. The old plug horse brand Delta Elite did not have a ramped barrel etc. The S&W 1006 etc did quite well. The Dan Wessons have no such damage. Old plug horses do not seem to be able to learn new ideas.

    • Austin

      I don’t think 10mm has much more recoil than a .45.

      • randomswede

        Max pressure for 10mm in CIPs listing is a little higher than 33000 PSI and .45 ACP a little less than 19000 PSI.
        I suspect the ~70% higher peak pressure is more to blame.

    • Timbo1

      The recoil of a 10mm is way over exaggerated in my opinion and couple that with some terrible gun choices when it came out minus a couple exclusions of course and the FBI giving up on it too fast just spelled disaster for the round and put it in cult status. The popularity of the platform seems to have grown recently as most of the gun shops around me can’t keep stock of 10mm chambered guns or ammo in stock, granted they might not order as much as 9mm but they are selling and from what I heard more so now than .40 S&W and .45 ACP in a few shops around me.

      • Sianmink

        Almost nobody even makes full bear 10mm anymore, they just load it down to .40 S&W velocities. Of course that’s not going to be bad out of a gun made for the real stuff.

        • Timbo1

          Still a few good popular choices that do full loads, Underwood, Buffalo Bore, another I can’t think of. Even the medium loads from Sig, Winchester and others are still hotter than a 40 S&W and even the hot loads are not that bad. Hell I’ve even seen the old Norma rounds that were supposed to be full power back in the day perform no better than 40 S&W, could the powder have broken down over time, sure it could have but even still the recoil is not an issue with 10mm like it’s made out to be even with the nuclear loads coming from Underwood and such at least for me anyway.

  • Jwedel1231

    The 10mm has seen a surprising upsurge in popularity in the last year. I think it’s a great round, as long as you are not trying to make everyone carry it (ex: FBI). If you let people pick what they want, the 10mm would be a great option for those willing and able to wield the beast.

    I hope it becomes more popular in the coming years.

    • RegT

      The FBI stopped because A) most female agents were uncomfortable with the deep grip required by a 10MM (primary reason the .40 was developed), and because most of their agents – males included – were uncomfortable with the recoil, even with the reduced power loads the FBI mandated for their agents.

      I worked for the California Highway Patrol when they switched from revolvers to semi-autos, and they decided against the 10mm for the same reasons as the FBI, choosing the .40S&W. Because of the incestuous relationship between S&W and CHP, they went with Smiths instead of Glocks, although I have no idea what they are using these days.

      • Jwedel1231

        As per your comment that a lot of agents couldn’t handle it, I agree. 10mm is a beast for sure, but not untamable (like a 50 AE or 460/500 mag) and if you have the physicality and willingness to do so, it can become very usable in full power form.

      • paul cuzz

        What ironic to me is how close the 10mm is to .357 mag that LEO’s carried for many years. Seems it would have been a smooth transition to them.

  • Sid

    I fired a friend’s Delta Elite and really liked it. Put a box of rounds through it.
    It is a hot pistol round, but I find nothing about it compelling. 9mm-357-40-45 all do what can be done with a pistol round. In the military which is limited to ball ammo, I would prefer more rounds to larger size. Penetration is not a factor in choosing a pistol. There are several that do it well.
    There is a difference in the ballistics of rifles and pistols. A really hot pistol does not bridge the gap. I see the 10mm as a different approach to the same issue as a .410 pistol. Maybe, if we fire a shotgun round out of a pistol it will make a difference. In the case of the 10mm, maybe if we fire a really hot pistol round it will make a difference. Both are limited by the physical properties of the pistol. A shotgun fires a shotgun round and a rifle fires a rifle round.
    Shot placement and follow-up shots would have made a difference in the Miami-FBI shootout. Super-duper laser death bullets would not. The 10mm was an effort to solve a problem that did not exist. Same could be said for the North Hollywood shootout. It wasn’t that 9mm sidearms where not effective against body armor. It is that no pistol would have defeated plated body armor.
    The 10mm is a hot pistol round. But in the ballistics world, it is the biggest hitter in little league.

    • Brian Fulmer

      Yep, I agree – didn’t even think about the ridiculousness that is the revolver/shotgun/pistol matchup in this context, point well made. Glock single-handedly kept 10mm alive for what, a decade? The best thing about 10mm is the Glock 20 got turned into a 45 ACP as an afterthought in the Glock 21.

      A super hot auto pistol caliber is still not even close to M1 Carbine territory, “biggest hitter in little league” indeed.

  • Roguewriter

    I own several 10mm guns. I edc the Glock 29. Maybe I’m crazy, but with the ammo that Underwood and the like are producing for 10mm, I think it’s on the rise again. I think many potential shooters look at how the FBI dropped the 10mm and say uh-uh. I say give it a try in a full sized pistol and you’ll be surprised.

    I have a MechTech Systems CCU for my Glock 20. That thing is just amazing. Solid and fun to shoot.

    The two guns that I shoot most often in 10mm are my Glocks. I’m beginning to think that they are indestructible. Not to mention that shooting .40 S&W through my Glock 20 is soft and smooth (Note: Yes, I shoot .40 through my Glock 20 & 29, and yes I understand the dangers involved and I’ve done my research. I am not advocating that anyone else do this without doing the same first). I’ve got a Bond Arms Backup in 10mm and a EAA Witness Match III as well. I carry the Backup when it’s too hot to easily conceal my G29. I did have a first gen Colt Delta Elite, but a buddy of mine cracked the slide on it with some Buffalo Bore ammo and I doubt I’ll get another 1911 style in 10mm.

    Sig just recently released a new 10mm model, and Dan Wesson started producing one of theirs again as well. Though I really wish that IWI would pull out the design for the .41AE version of the Jericho and tweak it for 10mm.

    • Joshua Johnson

      I would love to hear any additional thoughts you have about the Glock 29. I’ve recently started thinking about carrying a 29 when I go hiking (we have bears around here) instead of a 9mm. I have a Glock 26 that I carry frequently, but would like to get more power without going to a revolver. What ammo do you carry in it?

      • Roguewriter

        It’s a little snappy, but it really is just about the same size as a Glock 19. I carry Underwood Xtreme Defenders as my carry ammo. Going hiking with possibility of bears? Dunno. My first thought is Underwood Xtreme Penetrators, as I’m almost certain those will go through a bear. I live in Indiana which isn’t known for bears. Sorry!

        • BBNshooter

          Thanks, I really appreciate the information!

      • Keith Brockmiller

        I had a G29 in 10mm. In my hands, the grips were just too small. With my full load handloads, it just didn’t have enough grip to hold onto. Wanted to jump outta my hands. Recovery between shots was just too long. Traded it for a withness, now I’m a happy camper. Love the 10mm.

  • Malthrak

    It’s an expensive round that causes significantly more wear on most guns and dramatically more recoil than more common calibers in common use with respect to handguns.

    It would make a great SMG round, but with SMG’s and PCC’s falling by the wayside in favor of intermediate cartridge carbines, there doesnt seem to be a huge market, and existing SMG designs intended for 9mm or 45 have proven to be poor platforms for 10mm adaptation, to say nothing of the logistical issues of such customers in switching to a new ammo type.

    So, I would say it is neither underappreciated nor underused, it was the answer to an unasked question, much like its child cartrdige 40 S&W.

  • gusto

    if you really want ump in a carbine there are 357mag, 44mag and even 500sw carbines

    right? even autoloaders

    I don’t get this hype over pistolcalibre carbines, small game/plinking round, even small deer. cheapness of ammo is important rigth?

    If you want more power isn’t it time to step up to a rifle calibre?

    • Mazryonh

      .357 magnum, .44 magnum, and .500 S&W magnum are all rimmed cartridges, which make them difficult to use in most semiautomatic handgun designs. The 10mm is currently about the maximum size you can get in a magnum caliber semi-auto handgun that can still reasonably fit most hands. You can’t fit most rifle calibers in a semi-auto handgun either.

  • A.WChuck

    The round that is truly the best and underappreciated is the 11mm Tufnel.

    • Phil Ward

      😀
      “But why don’t you just load more powder in the 10mm?”

      • A.WChuck

        Another fan. Hat tip to you, sir.

  • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

    Give me a p227 or p320 in 10mm and you will make me a very happy man. I really don’t want to have to settle with a glock or eaa.

    • guest

      Well, Sig has a P220 in 10mm. I saw it in Guns and Ammo a while back.

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        Its quite a beautiful thing, and of all the single stack 10s on the market its certainly my favorite, but I really want a double stack.

    • Evan

      You’d have to get on line behind me for that 10mm P227.

    • Austin

      Or a FNX-10

      • TJbrena

        Or an H&K 10mm. It would carry less ammo and cost more, but you’d be able to load a nuke as propellant and have it work.

  • TheSmellofNapalm

    STOP.

  • nova3930

    Totally under appreciated. My Kimber 10mm is among my Top 5 most fun to shoot. Thinking about adding a Glock 40 MOS to the collection to go along with it too.

  • Austin

    10mm is the end of the 9mm vs .45 war.

    • Nicks87

      Not really, neither was .40 S&W. Some of the new .45 ammo from Underwood, Grizzly and others are comparable to .40 and creeping up on 10mm territory. so I decided not to bother with either the .40 caliber rnds.

      • Austin

        .40 S&W is a compromise in every way. 10mm has all the power of .45 +P plus a little, while sacrificing little capacity.

    • randomswede

      If it wasn’t for the 9x25mm Dillon! ; )

  • John Yossarian

    10mm is handled very well by heavier steel-frame autos. It’s my caliber of choice for a full-sized pistol, particularly in a nearly 3 pound Tanfoglio Witness. Why choose a lesser cartridge in that application? Just to go from 14 to 17 rounds per magazine? I think not!

    Otherwise, it’s 9mm for summer and 40 S&W for the month of winter. Achieved by Glock or M&P in 40 S&W with a conversion barrel.

    Why mess with 40 S&W? Because I don’t trust 9mm against the sweet tea-sized rages of be-jacketed landmonsters here in the American South. Think “Michael Brown”, and you’ll know what I’m getting at.

    • Austin

      RIA has a double stack 1911 in 10mm that holds 16 that has had my attention

      • John Yossarian

        That’s sweet, but I still prefer the Tanfoglio Match (SAO) with Grams spring & follower kits. Brings the magazine capacity up to 15.

        Be sure to try the Tanfoglio SAO trigger before you decide on a 2011. In my opinion, it’s just as good if not better, and the CZ design has a lot to recommend it over the older 1911.

        • Austin

          I completely agree about CZ vs 1911, just mentioning another option.

  • DaveP

    I miss my glock 20. There’s a few I regret selling over the years, but that’s one of only three I actually miss.

  • TVOrZ6dw

    Yes, the 10mm is underappreciated, as was the .41 magnum before it. Both live on as niche calibers.

  • Roy G Bunting

    If I could have only one gun, without other restrictions, I’d want a G40 with a stock and suppressor. Powerful enough for hunting, concealable with the stock and suppressor removed, it covers almost all the bases.

    If there was a PC9 or M1-carbine styled 10mm carbine that took Glock magazines, I’d probably buy it. The Vector in 10mm sounds interesting, but without being able to SBR or use detachable magazines, it’s less interesting for me.

  • Marc

    I’d like to see more affordable 10 mm ammo so non-reloaders can enjoy 10 mm as much as I do.

    • Austin

      Just order it online

  • guest

    what the 10mm auto along with a whole plethora of other ammo is, is unneeded. It does not fill any “gaps” besides imaginary ones that the 9mm is “too weak” for.

    • Kyle

      I feel like you and this kid would hit it off.

  • Daniel M. Ramos

    Isn’t the 10mm an almost perfect carbine cartridge in many ways? What people may think of as a negative for a handgun would make a carbine shine. Now if it could just be as inexpensive as 9mm, that would be really nice.

    • 10mm seems like neither fish nor fowl as a carbine cartridge, honestly.

      • Hanzo

        “I think there are good reasons for that.” Such as?

        • It misses out on the biggest advantages of the pistol caliber carbine (low ammo cost, common ammunition and magazines with pistols*), while being very poor as a rifle cartridge. It’s basically the worst of both worlds for that.

          *In a hypothetical situation where someone owned nothing but Glock 20s, maybe it would give you common ammo and mags, but there’s virtually no one for whom that is actually true. Lots of people like 10mm in theory, very, very few people are dedicated to it.

          • Hanzo

            Of course, that’s your opinion.

          • Not really an opinion. You know anybody who sells 10mm for $.20/rd?

            I think a lot of folks assume, too, that because 10mm is a high performance pistol round, it will be a high performance rifle round, too. That’s not really the case, as 10mm has pretty lackluster ballistics by rifle standards.

          • Timbo1

            The cheapest I have seen for 10mm locally was $19.99 for a box of 50 Sellier and Beloit FMJ

          • Hanzo

            The cost I don’t deny, smarmy guy. Name another ‘pistol cartridge’, besides .44 or .41 that offers more stopping power in a hunting situation, which 10mm is very capable. The transition to rifle cartridge (do you mean carbine?) is hard for any pistol cartridge to make in comparison to virtually any rifle cartridge. Besides cost, the rest is your own subjective opinion.

          • Yes, but if you’re not using common ammo and mags to your pistol, then why bother with a “handgun” caliber at all?

          • Hanzo

            Ahh, I see your point of matching pistol/rifle calibers, I’m afraid I failed to see your point before. Silly me.
            However, I really like the 10mm and I hope the cartridge can find a place amongst the more popular calibers. I used to shoot pins competitively, I used 9mm (very marginal, I used a Hi Power, very accurate but I ended up having to shoot some pins 2x in order to get them to clear the table), .45 (my fave caliber, and very capable of clearing tables in the sub 4 second range), and 10mm (of course 10mm cleared all targets off, actually knocking some targets well off the table, several feet behind it) and that’s when I realized the potential of the cartridge. I am aware of some 10’s having malfunctions, although I saw it mostly as a magazine issue. I saw in the comments 1 poster saying Kriss is going to come out with a 10mm Vector, which I’d like to try, although I’ve also heard they are having some financial difficulties. I think I would be ok with having to buy different mags for a carbine, but that kinda’ defeats the purpose of the commonality as you stated above. Thanks for your reply, please keep up the good work!

          • No prob, Hanzo, glad we came to a mutual understanding.

            I have nothing against 10mm, but I have nothing against .41 Action Express, either. 😉

          • RegT

            The reason for the high cost of 10MM is simple economics. There will probably _never_ be enough 10MM shooters to bring the price down to the level of .45 or even .40, let alone 9MM, but if it became as popular as the .44 Mag, more shooters would mean a lower price.

            I know I take my G20, loaded with 200 grain hard cast wide meplat bullets (a custom mold that duplicates the bullet shape Double Tap loaded in their 10MM offerings), in place of my Redhawk when I ATV in bear country – which is pretty much everywhere, where I live in the mountains of SW Montana. Hand-loading with my own cast bullets over some Accurate Arms #9 brings the price way down. It costs me around .30 per round, or $15.00 for a box of 50 rounds, when I use new Starline brass, but the cost obviously drops as I reuse that brass, down closer to an average of .13 per round. These prices are based on the current costs for brass, lead, powder, and primers, although I bought a large supply of components back when they were cheaper, so I am currently loading for even less.

          • 10mm is an excellent bear country caliber, but I don’t see very many people who shoot it exclusively, which means there won’t ever be much demand for 10mm PCCs, unless the caliber becomes a whole lot more popular for some reason.

            Out of a Glock 20 or especially a 40 with good loads, though, 10mm has a whole lot of performance, for sure.

  • HH

    10mm hasn’t caught on. Period. It’s currently a specialty round and will always be such.
    As far as the MP5 that was specifically for the FBI. And even in that platform it gets a little weird. For example one may have to swap out locking pieces (Hi v. Low impulse) just to get the MP5 to run properly. I have a 10mm clone MP5k. I dont care for it.

  • Big Daddy

    I love the 10mm round but in full power. I have shot a few Glocks in this round they are wonderful rounds. I would own one but the price of 10mm is too much right now and unless you reload it’s just not worth it. If i am not mistaken QC10 makes large frame Glock mag AR15 lowers that can take 10mm mags. I do not know if they support it with other parts though. I think it would work better in gas operation over blow back. Especially if the 10mm is loaded to it’s full power.

    • Austin

      If you order online you can get it for 35-40¢ per round

      • Daniel M. Ramos

        For it to be really popular and widely adopted it would have to hit the 20¢ per round price point.

        • Big Daddy

          Not to mention a lot of the ammo out there is not full power, it’s more like a little hot .40S&W.

        • RegT

          My hot bear loads can be rolled for less than that, if you reload, as I mentioned above (more recently than your post here). I did put a heavier (22lb) ISMI recoil spring in my G20, with an ISMI steel guide rod.

      • Big Daddy

        Right now I usually do but having .308, 5.56, 9mm & .45 acp I just cannot afford another round unless I reloaded.

        Although my next gun buy is probably a G21, I might add a G20 slide & mags. The frame is exactly the same.

  • Edeco

    Hehe, I would say about 25 out if 28 gun store enployees I can recall were alright, but the other three: angry space-aliens.

    • Kristoff

      We must frequent different gun shops then. The one in my town is notorious for employing only the most hardened douche nozzles. “You got a point to prove using a ten? No agencies use it anymore. Mine never did.” Actually yeah, I do have a point to prove.

      Seriously though, what’s up with the angry space-aliens? They give gun owners everywhere a bad name.

      • Hanzo

        Heh heh, I actually have a point to prove also. Love my 10mm.

      • RegT

        The “douche nozzles” you speak of don’t bother telling you – “mine” meant Walmart store security, who didn’t carry firearms at all – so it was true – they didn’t use a 10mm. The “gun store commandos”, as we called them back in the day, usually had zero military or law enforcement experience, but liked to pretend they did.

        I no longer frequent gun shops (except a good local store run by good people for the very occasional purchase, like my KSG and PMR-30 fun guns), but all the folks I know who spent time in the military and/or law enforcement _want_ to help gun owners, especially new ones, not sneer at them or treat them like trash. We want people to be safe, properly trained and prepared, and HAVING FUN shooting, and not leaving the store thinking that most experienced shooters are AH’s.

      • Mazryonh

        Have you actually met any “space aliens” who recognized the 10mm and had something good to say about it? There are still a couple US LEO agencies that use MP5/10s.

  • I sure like my 10mm 1911——

  • Wanlace Yates

    Yes, 10mm is underrated overall, but it was a mistake when users and manufacturers tried to put it in the same roles as .45 and 9mm for general service duty. Even 40S&W no longer gets much love on that front, and deservedly so since it just doesn’t add that much. As a autoloading round that can handle the general purpose chores of a .41 Magnum and similar rounds that work in revolvers, the 10mm really shines. It makes much more sense than something like the Coonan .357 or a Desert Eagle. That said, you have do be someone who does handgun hunting or ranching or otherwise knows and uses magnum caliber handguns well enough to get the most out of it.

  • Frank

    10 is a great, versatile caliber. It can be loaded, by a hand loader or by manufacturers, from mild to nuclear. It’s used for target shooting, hunting, and practical pistol competition. If someone wants more than a 9, 10 should be on the short list.

    There are really only a few issues. First, as many rightly note, is cost and availability of ammo. Next, is that it is common for people to shoot smaller calibers faster and more accurately. Finally, my biggest gripe, 10MM needs more firearms offerings. Where are the pistol caliber carbines? How about some lever actions? I would VERY MUCH rather have a lever action in 10MM than in 357 or 44 Magnum. And, wouldn’t 10MM make an outstanding SBR AR?

    Disclaimer: I own 2 10MM pistols.

  • Sledgecrowbar

    I feel like 10mm Automatic is a return to the idea that created .357 Magnum, only it couldn’t be adopted because the 80’s weren’t like the 30’s in that nobody cared about whether all but the burliest law enforcement officers destroyed their wrists during regular shooting practice. Also, we didn’t really have female law enforcement in the 30’s, which shifted the required standard a little for obvious reasons. Not that women are delicate, they can actually withstand more, but you don’t match smaller framed-people with larger-framed handguns because the idea is to maintain proficiency.

    I love .357, but I don’t shoot it a lot because it actually gives me a headache by the end of the day. It feels like machismo, it’s just right at a good middle of the upper end of what’s pleasant to shoot, it feels like a big gun without actually being a ridiculous pissing contestant like the 44/454/500 crowd. 10mm does essentially the same thing without being rimmed, which just packs the fun tighter over a given space of time. I would give preference to .357 solely for the anachronistic feel of a revolver, and you don’t blow through your spendy ammo quite as fast, but 10mm has come way down in price now, too. It should be more popular the way .357 is, and for all the same reasons, plus its main advantage of magazine loading.

  • Steven

    Hot 10mm’s in a pistol are basically the old 38/40 out of a rifle length barrel. Once upon a time, a lot of western shooters thought the 38/40 was adequate for most things but they could shoot.

  • 10x25mm

    No one mentioned the Olympic AR in 10x25mm. Mine is a fun gun to shoot and can be used for deer hunting in the ‘limited firearms zone’ here in Michigan. Works well.

    You will find that the 10mm punches windshield glass with more authority than anything else concealable fired from one hand, except for the big magnum revolvers. Why I carry a G29.

    An awful lot of 10mm handguns are under sprung and need higher force aftermarket springs. This is why 10mm developed a reputation for being hard on guns.

    • Mazryonh

      I thought the Olympic Arms 10mm AR used proprietary 18-round magazines. It also doesn’t look like it’s been available on the Olympic Arms website for a long while.

      I don’t know how common the need to punch through auto glass is in the context of defensive shootings. That sounds like a desired feature for a military sidearm rather than a civilian handgun, unless you’re hunting with a G29, to use your example.

  • Paul Prochko

    The 10mm is very under appreciated, except in those circles where their real range of use is better understood. Note that more 10mm firearms are appearing on the scene and Sig has finally put out a very high quality 10mm and ammunition. They wouldn’t do that if they didn’t anticipate a good market…and Sig hasn’t been disappointed.

  • Preston Bhatti

    Why write if you won’t give your opinion?.

    • Drunk Possum

      That’s kind of her shtick.

      • Preston Bhatti

        That’s a waste of everyone’s time. I hate clickbait.

  • zardoz711

    a bit late for April Fools, eh?

  • REB

    I have the 10mm Witness, love it.

  • Chili

    I would love to see an AR in 10mm that accepts Glock magazines.

  • The Raven

    I got a chance to run one of the original Colt Delta’s, back in the late ’80’s, when I was in the Army. I wasn’t a fan of the recoil and something about that pistol just didn’t feel right, so I stuck with my .45. A couple of years ago, I shot a RIA Tac II and was so impressed I bought one a few months later…then the Big Rock came on the market. This was a must have. I live in E. Texas and the strain of feral hog around here, has a heavy dose of Russian boar in it and you REALLY want to stop them at a distance. The BR’s 6″ barrel let’s one shoot at distances that you wouldn’t normally try. I dropped a 180lbs tusker, at 65 paces with one shot of Buffalo Bore 180gr JHP. It’s a big azz pistol but it does the job quite well…
    I’m a die hard .45 guy but 10mm is worming it’s way into my heart.

  • TacticalPickle

    To the 10mm sits in an odd spot. When compared to popular semi auto choices like .40 and .45 it does offer somewhat of a ballistic advantage but lacks the premium bullets because major manufacturers barely support it. For hunting its main advantage is size and capacity because it can’t hang with anything .41 Mag on up in terms of ballistics.

    The 10mm is best described as a .40 caliber .357 Mag, the two are nearly identical in ballistics, bullet wt vs. bullet wt., velocity vs. velocity. Comparing 10mm to .41 is only accurate in that both share a very similar diameter. The 10mm loaded warm throws a 180gr at 1300 fps whereas a .41 loaded warm can throw a 265gr at 1500 fps, but some would still favor the 10mm because of the platform advantages (size, weight and reload speed).

    I like the 10mm, have a G20 but if anything, to me the 10mm is overrated a good bit.

  • Art

    I have my Colt Delta Elite and love it. I have shot all sorts of ammo in it and I don’t see the recoil problem. Maybe my hands are numb from the 44 magnum.

  • Jason

    I’m just a “couch warrior”, and would be considered a casual 10mm shooter. I don’t shoot thousands of rounds a month, much less a year, but I still spout off about my Glock 29sf.

    I think if the Glock 29sf and G20sf had been available in 1988 and not years later the FBI could be carrying it. Is there recoil? Yes. Is it under appreciated? Yes. Does there need to be more carbines in 10mm? Yes. Will I own a Glock 40 someday? Yes.

    If there was a single stack 10mm the size of my G29sf I would be interested(Glock 44??). If Kel-tec made a 10mm carbine I’d be interested. I think my G29sf is still thinner than a .38 Special J-frame(I may be wrong, I need to google it).

    Defender Ammunition(Raeford, NC) loads the 10mm. I can buy 50 fmj’s for under $20.00. I plan to buy a lot for plinking/IDPA/stockpile.

    Thankfully this is America. If you don’t like the 10mm, you don’t have to use it, but at least try it first.

  • Timbo1

    This heavy recoil “issue” is greatly exaggerated. I have only previously shot 9mm handguns and I picked up a Gen 4 Glock 20 the other week along with some vary warm ammo and I can say that the 10mm recoil is not that bad.

  • Frank Nowakowski

    I’ve been a fan of the 10mm since I put my first round through a friends Bren Ten. Flatter shooting , yet similar power to a +P .45 acp. What’s NOT to like? Currently have three 3rd Gen S&W autos in ten which I shoot quite often. As a SIG fan I really need to snag a 220 here real soon. I DO probably hand load 90% of my ammo. So ammo availability or cost isn’t a factor for me. Is the ten underappreciated? I’d have to say…probably. Then again most shooters are into plastic guns and the nine mm anyway.

  • The Capatin

    I have been shooting the cartridge since 1991. When it comes to self-loading, battle-proven rounds, the 10mm Auto gets the nod. Why? Because it shoots as if it is a .45 ACP +p load, and has penetration capabilities to beat the band. Excessive penetration? with proper load selection, it isn’t a problem. IMHO, the “overpenetration” problems are a problem caused by poor shot placement. I would rather “overpenetrate” and survive, than come up short on a drug-fueled aggressor and be killed. Thank you kindly.

    No, the 10mm Auto works quite well. It may require a bit of pratice to master the round, but it is worth the effort.

  • Dave

    Ok, you’ve given a good introductory story, now how about the rest of the story? We need details in order to evaluate the value of the 10.

  • sean

    you always hear 9mm vs. 45acp…but the 10mm is never in Question 🙂 Thank you Don Johnson for all you have done in promote the 10mm

  • Buckpiss

    From very lite to 41 cal strength, the longer case to hold specialized bullets and powders make this one of the most adaptable calibers for modern pistols. More industry experts are experimenting the limits of the 10mm to take on different missions and situations. i customize it for hunting and protection from predators on the farm. With the straight case (unlike the 9mm luger), it has a nice even straight case. This leads to better cycling. (there are plenty of articles promoting fixing this problem by changing the 9mm luger to the 9mm Auto). But if you are going to go through all that work, i think its better to just go to 10mm Auto. With such flexibility and adaptability, there isn’t much you can’t do with a 10mm Auto. i’m biased but I think its the perfect military caliber for the future warfighter. With this caliber, you truly have a pistol platform able to take on a variety of missions.

  • MidwayBill

    Everyone seems to be following the vaunted FBI tests like lemmings. The FBI adopted the 10mm, then shunned it for the 40 S&W. NOW the FBI is rethinking the choice of the 40 S&W and leaning back toward the 9mm Parabellum. Now the myriad throngs of readers and firearms followers are predicting the death of the 40 S&W. I personally think the 10mm is underappreciated for the above reasons. It is a good and powerful cartridge. I carry my Glock 20 when I am hiking or fishing in bear country. At times it finds it’s way into my nightstand at home. Is it for everybody? No, it isn’t. I think it’s a great cartridge, but not everyone shares that opinion for many reasons, and who am I to argue with them? I cover all the bases and have a lot of pistols / revolvers in many chamberings. I appreciate them all!

  • Archie Montgomery

    It may be under appreciated. My opinion is it is a ‘niche’ caliber and usage that doesn’t find much use. I find it neither fish nor fowl.

    For defense, I carry a .45 ACP pistol. I perceive no need for the extra power of the 10mm round. (I admit I may sometime regret that perception, but I do my best to live with my limitations.)

    For those times when I feel I need more power from a handgun, I have a selection of several .44 Magnum revolvers. For that matter, I have several .357 Magnums.

    I currently load for – hmmm – quite a few different rounds. I see no need for a 10mm pistol nor to bring on an additional caliber for reloading.

    Which is not to say I find the 10mm lacking – other than it may recoil in a Government Model than I care to experience. It just isn’t anything I need.

    Were I just starting on handguns, and didn’t have any, perhaps I would see it differently.

  • Walt Mather

    Article needs at least some basic comparison specs for those who aren’t gun gurus and don’t have ballistics built into their head.

    Then there’s the practical reality of availability and cost. A lot of what drives the market today are new gun buyers for home defense and concealed carry protection.

    If you’re already a great shot, have strong hands and remain steady in a gunfight, then a .45, .357 or 44 mag might be wise. For many less recoil and more shots per mag make a 9mm or .40 a better choice. There are even circumstances where for some a .38 or .380 is a decent choice. Especially with today’s designer ammo options.

    I don’t see any real need for a 10mm and without any major market (like military or LE), it will probably fade into obscurity……..but then what do I know.? 🙂

  • Cmex

    10MM seems to just have the bad luck of never quiet ending up in affordable quality guns, which is why it never seems to quite make it off the ground. Secondly, it’s expensive, and really only three kinds of people actually shoot expensive rounds with any regularity: operators who get issued it, people in more extreme shooting sports, and professional hunters. If an average shooter can take either their 40S&W XD40 to the range or their 10MM Auto Bren 10, odds are they’re taking the XD. Not only is it easier for them to shoot and shoot well, but they’re more likely to want to practice on it for if they ever need to defend thsmelves, and the ammunition is cheaper. Even if it’s just a few cents a round, that still adds up to a dollar or two by the box and the gap only grows. And because the 40 recoils less, they’ll probably find it more pleasant to shoot and therefore prefer to spend time with it for more pleasure and less money than getting beaten up by some beast of a cartridge. Another issue is weapon size. 10MM Auto is large, so its guns are large. Few men and even fewer women are going to be able to really hold or handle it properly. That limits its market share among serious and high value shooters, because most people serious enough to buy rounds in volume enough to support a cartridge will analyze rounds in terms of controlability, rounds per mag, cost per round, shot times, and end performance, and ultimately come to conclusions like deciding that even though their M1911 can deliver 7 rounds of 45ACP, it’s really not worth it when their Glock 17 can deliver 17 rounds of 9×19 with an even shorter time between shots, better control, less expense, and very similar performance.

    • Mazryonh

      Have you tried the M1911s in 10mm offered by Rock Island Armoury? If Glocks aren’t your thing, the 10mm M1911s offered by RIA come at similar price points and don’t have very wide grips if you choose the single stack versions.

  • OJS

    If you’re limited to 10 rounds… 10mm seems like a good choice as far as auto-loaders go

  • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

    Dont tempt me like that. Ive never had interest in H&K because they are way expensive and they have a goofy mag release. The last thing I need is a good reason to get one.

  • ElderAmbassador

    Katie, do you shoot one? Which one? I have a Witness with .38 Super and .45 uppers and have thought of getting the 10 mm upper.
    As for me, underappreciated, probably, but only by the uninitiated, and of course by the girly boys and girly girls (many women handle it just fine). But those folks are the reason the FBI had to go to Short & Weak.
    When I bought my used (consignment) FBI 1076 the counter clerk told me I wouldn’t like it “because it recoils like a .45 Auto” and everyone knows that is tough to handle.

    • Katie A

      I do, actually. An STI 2011 Perfect 10, Republic Forge 1911, Glock 20, Glock 29, SIG P220 Hunter, and there just might be more… It’s a solid hunting round but also a good self-defense round as long as you’re willing to put the trigger time in to ensure shot placement. I can’t deny they aren’t the most cost-effective pistols on the market, but they’re capable while also serving multiple purposes. I have other calibers and use them as well, but the fact that I can train with one pistol for both my hunts and my personal protection appeals to me quite a bit. You have a 1076, that’s something I’d like to have more than a little. A gun related to an interesting piece of ammo history plus one of the more interesting firefight analyses out there (yes, I’m fascinated by in-depth dissections of firefights, active shooters, etc., anything related to self-defense, really).

      • ElderAmbassador

        That 1076 is the only 10mm I have and as to the cost effective aspect, if you hand load it’s a Lot more reasonable. Not to mention you choose which load to shoot today. I have other handguns, including my S&W 57 in .41 Magnum which I usually hunt with. Mine has a 6″ barrel which helps accuracy and yes, trigger time is Very important!
        Nice talking with you, someone who knows about these things.

      • Mazryonh

        Do you think you could record and post a video on this blog of yourself shooting the 10mm Auto, preferably out of a handgun and a PCC? It’s a common perception that 10mm isn’t suited for female shooters, so a video like that posted here could address that stereotype.

  • A Fascist Corgi

    I seriously considered carrying the Glock 29 for a while. I really like the idea of having 10 rounds each packing around 700 foot-pounds of energy. But I personally can’t carry a firearm without a manual safety. I’ve seen and heard about way too many accidental discharges to follow the anti manual safety trend within the community. However, a Glock 20 is my primary woods gun and one of my many home defense weapons.

    • Mazryonh

      If you’re carrying a Glock 29 loaded with full-power ammunition, at least you can be sure that the 10 rounds it carries offer you the best stopping-power-to-recoil ratio you can carry that platform, not to mention the surprisingly-long effective range you get out of such a short-barrelled handgun in that caliber.

  • Michael

    With .45 Super producing the same level of muzzle energy, coupled with the availability of high quality, low cost 45 Super-ready 45s on the market… I just can’t see buying into the round on it’s merits. It onced solved a problem that now more mainstream rounds solve, and with better options.

    I’d be happy to consider a reasoned opinion to the contrary however.

  • Wetcoaster

    Would the 10mm be powerful enough to make it undesirable to use straight blowback in a semi-auto carbine or rifle application?

    I suppose it could be interesting in a bolt gun for bush hunting as well.

    • Mazryonh

      Not true, there are at least two straight blowback pistol caliber carbine models for 10mm Auto out there. And why would you need a bolt-action gun for a pistol caliber?

  • Zebra Dun

    I would simply use a .45 acp for defense and if I wanted to hunt I would use a .44 magnum in a handgun before I would go for a 10 mm.
    It fills a niche no doubt but that niche is rather small the self defense handgun round you an use in a semi auto and also hunt big game with.

  • NofDen

    Where is the .44 mag.

  • Joshua Knott

    I’d say both, with the FBI switching over to the 9mm+p and dropping the .40 S&W. But lets look at one thing, tanks for example its all about the balance of firepower, survivabillity, and mobility. I think the sidearm is constantly trying to find the right niche in all of fore mentioned areas, hence Bren Ten (just kidding), to me the most under appreciative round is the .357 SIG.

  • CavScout

    Since the a lot of the difference in 10mm vs the other is metrics, .40S&W has better number almost all around than 9mm and .45ACP, and at only .04 cents more per round. I have all three, and if I could only have one, it’d probably be 9mm. But 10mm is just cost prohibitive.

    • Mazryonh

      It’s a positive feedback loop. More demand will usually create more competition which will in turn usually drive down ammo prices. On the other hand, the status of 10mm as a “boutique round” meant its price stayed relatively stable during the ammo panics.

  • Bob

    my understanding is the 10 mm was first going to be used by the FBI (like the 41 magnum back in the day). But with POLITICAL correctness, and hiring “girls” they had to downsize the charge in the rounds so the birth of the 40 came along. Glock got his START here when he was an unknown and in the early 80’s picked up a 40 round at the shot show in Dallas I think it was. You can Read all about it in the book about “Gaston Glock”. It is a FUN read.
    As to what round is best for you is that it depends on your hand size, your physical abilities, do you have severe arthritis in your hands? etc.
    Then the next choice is what do you want to shoot, a revolver or a semi-auto.?
    If the police in the shootout down in Florida (or was it Georgia where the bad guys had Mini 14’s) had more then a 9 mm they might have “made it”.
    this is the age old discussion. 45 vs 9, .223 vs .308 (7.62 NATO), Ford vs Chevy etc.
    Practice practice practice.
    I believe the 10 mm is a good cartridge and part of it’s “under appreciation” is that there are NOT enough firearms made to handle it SAFELY.
    I’ve thought of buying the 10MM auto made by EAA the tanfoglio witness, but I have a 41 magnum model 57 revolver that has the 8-3/8 barrel, target sights, etc and it will do anything the 10 will do except it only holds 6 rounds. My ccw is a 45 auto that holds 14+1 and is a full size 1911. I have no troubles with it. If I want to match the 10 mm in performance levels all I have to do is buy some buffalo bore ammo or other HOT stuff.
    You have to worry about OVER penetration in a “defensive type round”!

  • Matt

    I think the 10mm is very unappreciated. Loaded with lighter bullets, recoil isn’t bad and the velocity is crazy. I load 155 jhp’s to nearly 1500fps, and the recoil is sure there, but it’s quite manageable…and the results are outstanding. A lot of fun to shoot watermelons with-assuming, of course, that you don’t plan to pick up any pieces and eat them, because that ain’t gonna happen

  • Lt_Scrounge

    Not going to go there myself. Too many other readily available calibers that don’t cost a fortune and require an internet search or two hour drive to find ammo for. I don’t have a reloading press at the moment, so cooking my own is out of the question. If I wanted a handgun to hunt with I would probably just opt for a 44 magnum since I can get ammo for that at Walmart. I might consider the 10mm for hog hunting if I weren’t in Boonieville, Tx where the nearest store other than a Walmart is over an hour’s drive away.

    As for self defense, I’ll have to stick with a caliber that requires little range time to maintain effective accuracy when firing controlled pairs. I don’t have the time or money to drop $50 worth of ammo weekly at the range. I put roughly 35 of the 50 rounds fired for my TX CHL through a single big hole with my 9mm without any range time in the previous 3 years. I also passed the 4 day defensive handgun course at Front Sight 6 weeks later without any additional range time. Caliber and muzzle energy mean nothing if you aren’t hitting your target. Until I got my Tristar C100, I was carrying around a Beretta 84F 380 ACP. Not a very powerful round, but a tack driver with very low recoil allowing for FAST and ACCURATE follow up shots. At Front Sight, I was in the middle of a tactical reload when the rangemaster called a failure to stop drill. I slammed the magazine back into the pistol and popped two targets in the occular cranial cavity (AKA between the eyes) before the timer went off. I’ll take that as an outcome in a gun fight every time. Could I do that with a 10mm? Probably, but I wouldn’t want to spend the money in ammo and range time that it would take to get used to the increased recoil.

  • Slick

    Ruger made a PC40 (40sw) carbine back in the day 90s. Love that piece. Converted (Machined) one to a 10mm. works awesome still :^)

  • Mikial

    I’ve actually been intrigued by the 10mm for a few months now as I research it. I would not rule it out as one of the calibers I buy a nice Glock handgun to shoot in the near future. I really enjoy powerful rounds and don’t have any issues with recoil or controlling follow-up shots.

    If anyone has any thoughts or recommendation, I would appreciate it.

    • Mazryonh

      If you’re not looking to get the Glock 40 with its optic mount system and are not fazed by recoil, you may want to start with the Glock 29. That’s because if you can train to handle the recoil of full-power 10mm loads offered by companies with Underwood Ammunition, you’ll find the recoil in the Glock 20 and Glock 40 easy by comparison.

      Another reason to go for the 29 is that you might want to check out the Carbine Conversion Unit from Mechtech. The CCU doesn’t work with subcompact Glocks, but will work with the Glock 20 assuming you get the CCU model chambered for 10mm.

  • LetsTryLibertyAgain

    I think if Glock isn’t going to make a 30 round magazine for the G20, G29 and G40, then the South Korean Glock magazine clone company should do so. Then 10mm would be more popular. I assume the 10mm Kriss Vector will have a reasonable magazine capacity. After that, we need a few interesting 10mm carbines or PDWs. I’d love a 10mm version of a SUB-2000, and a modern version of a poor man’s MP5-10 would really get the 10mm market cooking.

  • JoelM

    Here come the guys to explain why the 10mm is great but the .40S&W is dead because the 9mm is the king. They’ll be here any minute their zeppelin is running late.

    • Mazryonh

      As a compromise, .40 S&W isn’t quite as nice as it looks. Sure, it can run in 9mm-size handguns, but their lighter mass (especially on the slide) means the recoil is sharper on hotter .40 S&W rounds than it would be with equivalent 10mm Auto rounds. You also get the history of kaboom!s with .40 S&W too.

      • JoelM

        I side step all of that by not buying Glocks in .40S&W. HK and S&W designed their pistols around the .40S&W. It’s the base cartridge for the USP and P2000 line, and for the M&P line. I haven’t heard any increased incident of failures or “kabooms” with those pistols. I suspect it has to do with the chamber being properly designed for the cartridge with full support for the case. Glock builds nice guns, just not for the .40.

        • Mazryonh

          As a bonus, it’s perfectly possible to convert a USP in .40 S&W to 10mm. I’d like to see H&K put out a new 10mm handgun, or even convert the old H&K Mark 23 handgun to 10mm.

          Speaking of Glock kaboom!s, I wonder if there have been lawsuits concerning them.

  • LetsTryLibertyAgain

    That’s an interesting concept, but 8 pounds seems at least three pounds too heavy for a PDW. I’d like to see the concept implemented with glass filled nylon instead of steel in the less stressed areas, but even then, the blowback operation with the mighty full power 10mm is going to require a heavy bolt. A good contender in this PDW category would be a PLR-16 (maybe with a slightly longer barrel) in 300 BLK. If I wasn’t swamped with projects and nearly devoid of mojo, I’d be tempted to make my own 300 BLK version of the PLR-16.

    • Mazryonh

      The MAC-10 is an old but commonly-available design so it’s likely that blogger chose it because of its cost and availability, not to mention the relatively large amount of full-auto components available for it. Glass-filled nylon would likely probably make the design more expensive.

      • LetsTryLibertyAgain

        Certainly, glass filled nylon would make the design more expensive in small quantities, but it’s the sort of material that would be chosen for an injection molded receiver, where the complexity is in the mold and the per piece cost is very low in large quantities. Kel-Tec uses Zytel for their firearms and the injection quality is now very good. With a high enough glass content, it feels as stiff as metal without the high thermal conductivity of metal, and of course, it’s lightweight and completely corrosion resistant.

        I think a 10mm PDW would be great, but I’d like it lighter, and a different operating principle other than blow back which would add too much weight to tame the power of 10mm.

        • Mazryonh

          The blog author I mentioned has the design use receiver parts from Lage Manufacturing which makes modernized MAC-10 and MAC-11 receivers out of aluminum, so that should cut down on weight somewhat. The way you describe Zytel makes it sound like it might impede weapon cooling if put in the wrong places though.

          With the success of the SIG MPX, SIG-Sauer might be interested in putting out a 10mm Auto version of that SMG. The MPX is like the MP5 in that it doesn’t load from the pistol grip, so design feature means it can’t be holstered like an MP7.

          • LetsTryLibertyAgain

            Polymer such as Zytel (glass filled nylon) is not nearly as suitable for high rates of fire as aluminum. The Zytel framed PLR-16 (essentially a gas operated AR-15 pistol) can fire about 75 rounds in rapid fire mode before the barrel is hot enough to soften the polymer forend. Polymer is great for light weight and corrosion resistance, but it’s not good for highly stressed parts nor heat dissipation.

            Back on topic, if full power 10mm ammo were more readily available and less expensive, I think we’d see a lot of interesting firearms chambered in 10mm. I think it’d be particularly good as a carbine or Personal defense weapon (PDW). But 10mm never quite made it out of its boutique caliber status, despite the fact that it rocks a Glock.

          • Mazryonh

            Guess you can’t have everything with gun materials, then.

            Anyway, the first step of turning a boutique caliber into a mainstream one is to spread the word about it. At a minimum, 10mm SMGs create less blast and flash than SBRs, can be effectively suppressed and use effective subsonic ammunition, share ammunition with a handgun, and can use shorter barrels without losing as much performance as SBRs would. But on the civilian front, convincing people used to .40 S&W to give 10mm Auto a try might work better (they can still use their .40 S&W ammo in a 10mm gun with just a barrel swap).

            If you ever actually make a PLR-16 in .300 BLK you should try contacting this blog to make an blog entry for it.