Polish MSBS Rifle (SHOT Show 2016)

The Polish MSBS rifle has been making waves among the armed forces in its homeland for a while now (phasing out the old Beryl rifles), and us lucky folks in the USA will soon be able to get our hands on them. They are convertible to bullpup form, fully ambi, easy to manipulate, and downright cool looking.

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Alex C.

Alex is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and Director of TFBTV.


  • BillC

    Wikipedia has weight at 8.2 pounds! No thanks.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      That was one of my impressions at SHOT last year when I held both. The carbine was front heavy, the bullpup was better balanced, but still heavy. Wasn’t impressed, actually, I was let down.

      • BillC

        I used to be anti AR and DI gas, from the old M16A2’s from when I started in the Army. My hate decreased when we got M4s. I then bought a Ruger SR556 thinking I wanted all that rail and that piston was the way to go. Whoops. All that weight got old. Fell in love with ARs when I sarted building my own.
        My 10.5″ with a suppressor weighs just under 7 pounds sans Aimpoint. I don’t want ultra light, but I stuck with minimalist (not Spartan) ARs because I finally asked the question of “why so heavy9”
        All these new plastic rifles haven’t solved or enhanced anything that an AR built from quality parts can’t do, can’t do better, and usually cheaper and lighter. I love New stuff, but this is just reminding me of a the ACR, which was a lard and $2k.

        • HSR47

          The Masada was a promising concept; The problem is that Magpul sold the design to Remington. The final product did not fully live up to the original promise, and Remington has utterly failed to support it in the commercial marketplace.

          A gun who’s chief feature is modularity is unattractive when nobody is actually making the parts that will let you take advantage of it’s modular design. Since the rifle was originally released in 2010, replacement barrels have CONSTANTLY been something Remington was saying would be “out in about six months.” It’s been six years, and they’re still not available.

          • FarmerB

            Exactly. Modular costs money and it costs weight. If you don’t “enable” it by providing different modules, it’s just another fat, expensive gun.

          • HSR47

            On the ACR, the majority of the forward weight (and the resulting balance issues) are due to the profile of the barrel and the piston gas system.

            I’ve seen how the barrel attachment system works on the ACR, and I’m not convinced that it’s significantly heavier than what’s on your average AR15. On the other hand, it’s a well established fact that piston gas systems are significantly heavier than DGI, and it’s also well established that barrel profile can make a big difference in weight/balance.

            The issue with the ACR is that a disproportionate amount of the weight is in the front half of the rifle; In turn, front-heavy rifles tend to feel subjectively heavier than balanced or rear-heavy rifles do.

    • Hensley Beuron Garlington

      Great weapon platform and idea, but we really need some new, light weight, durable materials that are still affordable to realize the potential of these designs.

    • The SCAR 16 is 7.25 lbs.

      Bushmaster ACR is 7.9lbs.

      HK G36 is 7.9 Lbs.

      B+T APC 556 is 7.85 lbs.

      So it’s slightly heavier than similar rifles, but by no means obese.

      • KestrelBike

        That’s the crazy thing, how is this heavier than the ACR?? It looks great & slim, where the heck did they manage to put 8.2lbs into it? The ACR has all the weight at the front due to the barrel-change system (you know, for all those different calibers that bushmaster/remington managed *NOT* to create & supply) and if the MSBS does not have that system, how is it heavier?

        Edit: oops, so the MSBS *does* have the quick-barrel-change system? Whyyyyy. I gotta imagine that’s where all the front-heavy weight is.

        • Phil Hsueh

          I might be mixing the MSBS up with another rifle but I know that there’s a (newsish) rifle that was originally designed for steel/aluminum but ended up going into production using polymer but they didn’t redesign it at all so as a result, it’s heavier than it could be.

          • iksnilol

            That was the CZ 805 Bren. The CZ 806 fixed that.

          • Phil Hsueh

            Thanks for the correction, I had a feeling that I was mixing this gun with something else.

        • Zbyszek

          There are a lot of variants of the MSBS. Polish Wiki says the weight is from 7.5 pounds to 8.2 pounds. There is a variant with heavy barrel intended to be used akin to a Squad Assault Weapon and there are variants with lighter barrels. We have to see how much does it really weigh in a given configuration. From what I heard they are still trying to find ways to make the gun lighter. Maybe next revisions will be better in this area?

          As for the barrel, there is no quick barrel change system, not like in the machine guns. You still have to remove the barrel shroud, unscrew two screws and only then the barrel is removed. It’s very easy, but it’s nothing like in a machine gun.

        • HSR47

          The weight distribution on the ACR is largely due to the barrel profile and piston gas system (heavy things up front), combined with lightweight materials in the rear. With a shorter/slimmer barrel, the ACR would be much lighter.

      • Bushmaster ACR is 8.3-8.6 lbs. Source: I weighed it.

        • Hokum

          Nathaniel, will you visit FB booth on Shot Show? Can you ask them about approximate release date of MSBS to European/US civil market?

    • Not sure where Wiki got their numbers, but I’m pretty sure that’s for only one variant. I’ll need to check my MSBS brochure to confirm, though.

  • USMC03Vet

    Hopefully these will be under $1k.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Only possible way they’d gain even a little traction in the USA.

    • Phil Hsueh

      Same here. It seems like every time somebody releases something that’s not an AR or AK variant it’s always at least $1k and up. It would be nice to see something that’s not an AR or AK variant that’s actually affordable for us more budget minded shooters/collectors.

      • nobody

        >It seems like every time somebody releases something that’s not an AR or AK variant it’s always at least $1k and up

        The only reason AR-15s are as cheap as they are today is due to everyone and their brother making them and flooding the market, not long ago the budget AR-15s were ~$800 and good ones were $1,000+. Not many companies want to bring out a new budget rifle design to market today when it wouldn’t be able to compete with current budget AR-15s, Masterpiece Arms being the one exception recently with their AR-18 clone though it hasn’t done very well and you don’t really hear about them as you can get a similar AR-15 for a couple hundred less. AKs were cheap for years because they were generally being built off parts kits which sell for a fraction of what they would have cost to actually make due to the market being flooded, same reason why Mosin Nagants were cheap for years.

  • Yup. I want one.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Fabryka Broni… Ah, I get it.

  • Twilight sparkle

    How are the ergos compared to the beretta arx and the fn scar?

    • JumpIf NotZero

      I remember the rifle being ergonomically fine. But the way the cheek comb moved was clunky iirc.

      If this gun ever makes it to the US, it’ll make no waves unless they get it in under 1k street (impossible, if the AR came out today it would be $2500). It’ll suffer the same fate as the ARX, F2000, SCAR, BREN, ACR, XCR, etc etc. Niche, but ultimately not better enough than the much more common and cheaper AR-15.

      US market is the largest but ultimately the hardest for a new design to penetrate.

      • Twilight sparkle

        I think the one year wait is probably more of a price related thing than anything, they probably want to get a firm establishment in Poland to bring production up and reduce overall cost to the buyer when they do finally export. This seems to be what happened with the tavor at least and why it’s as cheap as it is.

        • JumpIf NotZero

          Ehhh… The Tavor was a military gun they had been in production since 2001. They were able to leverage more than a decade of product, experience, revisions, tooling. THAT is how I think the Tavor happened under 2k.

          None of that applies to the MSBS in the same scale.

        • Rick5555

          I’ll believe the MSBS is available to the US market, when it’s actually here. The MSBS, MDR (Desert Tech), and a host of other firearms have been saying their gun will be available soon. Any yet, I see nothing. The MDR was announced in 2014, Last year at Shot, said it would be coming out sometime in Spring or Summer of 2015. Some guns never materialize.

    • Sam

      Are you asking if they are better than either of those? Because the ARX feels like a squirt gun, and the SCAR feels like a big, clunky workhorse.

      • Twilight sparkle

        I realize this, the arx and scar both looked great on the surface until you got them in your hands, though I kinda like the scar still. I was hoping the ergos were better than both but I don’t know any people that have handled a msbs.

        • BillC

          The ONLY, ONLY thing that I liked about the SCAR 16S was that it was a soft shooter. Felt recoil was very low.

      • BrandonAKsALot

        This is literally the first time I have ever heard complaint over the SCARs who’s ergos. I’ve heard complaints over the rattle from the stock, the iron sights, the trigger (which mine sucks), the color match, but definitely never the ergo factor.

        Not saying you aren’t valid to say it’s not a fit for you, but once I held one, I fell in love. It’s one of the most comfortable firearms I’ve used and is way smaller and lighter than I thought it would be.

        • Sam

          To me, it’s really tall and big overall. Blocky. I’m not saying it’s not necessarily comfortable… it just feels… clumsy, I guess?

          I guess I’m kinda going against the grain with my opinion of the SCAR, but it never really did anything for me. I worked at a range that had one as a rental and from jump street I wasn’t too enamored with it. Side-by-side, I thought the ACR was a way more refined rifle of the “piston w/ quick change barrel capabilities” category. So much for the ACR nowadays, though 🙁

  • mechamaster

    One of my favorite rifle concept. If they bought ‘bullpup-convertion kit’ and take no extra paperwork for bullpup-SBR, but still 1 receiver…