Open Carry Faux Pas

best buy

A friend shared this with me. He does not know the origins and context of the image. As you can see, this person is open carrying inside a Best Buy. Upon closer inspection, he has a right handed Blackhawk Serpa holster but is carrying it on his left side. It looks to be a Ruger SR series pistol. Cross draw hip holsters do not seem like a good idea. The act of reaching across your body to access the firearm seems cumbersome already. Add to that, the act of depressing the retention paddle on the Serpa Holster.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Milorg

    It might be easier to use a seatbelt in this configuration.

    • JasonB

      He could be carrying it in that position because of a shoulder injury, a torn rotator cuff can cause severe pain when attempting draw from normal holster positions.

      • Tierlieb

        I agree there can be a lot of reasons to do this. Another would be that this a secondary gun and there is a primary weapon somewhere to the right.

        But I would expect the holster to be canted forward to make the draw easier.

        • Well, the fact that he’s using a Serpa indicates either he doesn’t know very much, and/or he likely only has one holster.

          • Nicks87

            Serpa holsters work just fine for people who dont have their heads wedged firmly up their asses.

          • Geodkyt

            Whatever helps you sleep at night… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    • Jack Deez

      The white man and his guns. SMH

  • Dan

    I willing to bet if he carries this way (assuming he doesnt have an injury where this is his only option) he also probably doesn’t mind muzzle sweeping bystanders in the event he has to draw his firearm

    • Or, he actually knows how to draw without sweeping everyone to the left of him.

      Not everyone draws crossdraw like they’re throwing a discus, just like not everyone draws from a strongside holster like they’re bowling.

  • Yojimbo556

    Really? I walk in to best buy with a P229 hidden under my sweatshirt and i get asked to leave or put it in the car and this clown is allowed to walk around like the dbag he is!?

    • John

      If it were really hidden, how would they find out about it?

      • Yojimbo556

        The P229 isnt exactly small. Large bulge on my hip, maybe it was sticking out the bottom of the sweatshirt. Maybe the security douche was actually paying attention. I dont know. I at least made an effort to hide it, not be an OC jackass.

        • echelon

          I open carry frequently and do not feel that I’m a jackass. Since when does FREELY exercising ones natural, God given rights make them somehow less of a person?

          I would much rather people carry openly. It’s polite. It’s – I daresay – gentlemanly.

          Don’t get me wrong, I also CC either with a BUG or if I know I’m going into a place where there will be mass freakout at the sight of my preferred method of personal defense, but overall it’s my belief that carrying concealed is for criminals or people who “have something to hide” or it’s an acknowledgment that our guns are “shameful” and so must be kept out of sight.

          • SM

            I prefer to carry concealed not because I’m a criminal, but because open carry is well, open. I prefer not to draw attention to myself and nothing draws attention like a gun.

          • echelon

            I respect and understand your position.

            If we were really exercising our God given, natural rights it shouldn’t and wouldn’t matter either way. It would just merely be a preference.

            I will say, however, that I too felt like you the first few times I OC’d and honestly, other than a few people who’ve smiled or kind of nodded to me, I haven’t had a single person freak out or try to debate me on why I feel the “need” to open carry, nor have I had the cops called on me.

            In this day and age with everyone carrying a phone in a holster on their belt or they themselves have their face buried in their own phone, they just don’t care or notice.

          • Sig_Sauer

            Sometimes I open carry. I find it a great way to start a conversation, it allows me explain to non-firearm people the benefits of being armed.

            I was buying new tires for my car and the manager noticed my firearm under my jacket when I reached for my wallet. He asked what I was carrying and we had a short conversation. I thanked him for not posting a no-gun sign and explained to him if he had I would not be spending $700 in his store.

          • brianfromohioviatexas

            I like the fact that people are looking in on white America and are seeing that we are bringing guns with us when we go out.
            I like that statement a lot.
            I dislike the fact that this is a fashion statement; whether good or bad.

          • echelon

            I think that’s great and that takes courage. A lot of people want their 2nd amendment rights to be upheld and/or strengthened but they do not want to have uncomfortable conversations much of the time.

            But even so, I and most all of the people I know that open carry do not do so to evangelize. It’s just us exercising our rights. It’s no different than breathing or walking or any other thing.

            If someone asks me about it, sure, I engage them. I can count on one hand how many times someone has actually said something to me and all of those times were positive.

            I can count on two hands the number of times people have given me a wink, smile or funny look or glare. Things that tell me that they’ve noticed.

            Most of the time people are oblivious. I do nothing to draw attention to myself.

          • Calling attention to yourself is a good way for a bad guy to ID the first target he’ll take out. I want to be as low key as possible.

          • whskee

            Agreed, I prefer CC almost exclusively. However, I do believe that OC can discourage bad actors to some degree. Especially those who are unarmed and realize they’ve brought a knife to a gun fight so-to-speak. I don’t advise for OC, but it’s a valid choice. I don’t like people doing it just to be obnoxious attention seekers.

          • RaunchyDawg

            A bad guy enters an area with the intent of his target already picked out. Name an instance where a crackhead would engage in a firefight with someone while robbing wendys because they had a pistol on their hip. The only instance is if that person was a cop. And even then they most likely had the intent to engage a police officer in the first place anyway. They would go to the next wendys where there was no one with a pistol on their hip. People don’t shoot at other people with guns because they don’t want to be shot back. Criminals are not brave, they are stupid and cowardly.

          • Yojimbo556

            I disagree with that. Id rather just not draw attention to myself. Im just another shopper going about their business checking out the products before i buy them on Amazon. I respected their wishes and left. I didnt argue or make a scene, I just left and havent returned to that store since 2008.

            There are also varying degrees of people when it comes to guns. It may rattle them, they may not be hard core anti-gun nuts. Id rather not shove it in their face, and rather not have their agenda in mine either. Kinda like religion. I also dont want to get into any confrontations. Arguing with the assistant manager of an Arbys or Applebees isnt really striking a blow for gun rights, and what do I look like to all those other patrons just enjoying their meal?

            And as for being gentlemanly, I would much rather carry it hidden and have the element of surprise over a threat. Im carrying to defend myself. No other reasons.

          • echelon

            Hey, I sincerely respect your views and opinions. We just happen to disagree with each other.

            I’m fine with you carrying your way and having your views. What I don’t like is being called a lunatic, jackass, attention whore or anything else just because I prefer a different mode of carry.

            If people have a problem with that it’s entirely theirs, not mine. A right is a right. We have the freedom of speech, not because some amendment on some document says so but because it’s our Natural, God given right. So as much as someone else’s speech might offend us or make us cringe it does not mean that we must lord it over the other person or force, stifle or somehow coerce them into changing their speech. Same goes for self defense and the right to bear arms.

            This is the fundamental problem with our society as I see it. You have one group of people that want to force you into doing certain things and acting a certain way because they are offended or off put by what they see. And then you have the people on the other side of the aisle who do the exact same thing from their standpoint.

            How about we do neither? I like to say we Libertarians have a plan to take over the world…and then leave everybody alone.

          • Core

            I agree. We have the right to open carry, too bad antis have convinced our society that guns in themselves are menacing and evil. Status quo may dictate the individual with the audacity to practice his/her rights to bear arms is uncool but exercising your rights isn’t about popular opinion and the cool factor. If we could become more comfortable in knowing our rights our society by and large would not be stigmatized and overreact to open carry. LEOs should support the right not contradict it by defaming it, by doing so LEOs marginalize law itself. Would you discourage folks in your community from expressing their opinion in regards to other civil rights? The truth is echelon is more grounded in his understanding of his rights, and those who feel entitled to dictate away those rights will never have the wisdom to comprehend the fabric for which those rights were woven.

          • Bill

            How many potholes have you filled today? You are a volunteer firefighter and EMT, aren’t you? How do you know that gas pump is really dispensing a gallon when it says so? When are you going to replace that burned out traffic light bulb? Do you know how to inspect an elevator, or run an air traffic control center, or a sewage plant?

            People who are constantly bitching about government intrusion in the United States need to travel to a place where you have to dispense gasoline through an old nylon to screen out the bugs, and just hope it hasn’t been cut with water. And when your state catches fire, fly your own air tanker.

          • echelon

            I don’t know in any way, shape or form how what you wrote relates to what I wrote.

            If the road has potholes and I don’t like them I’d rather pay for their filling myself rather than be FORCED to pay for them against my will.

            I didn’t ask the person to volunteer to be anything. I’m grateful they did. If they didn’t volunteer I’d gladly pay them for their services.

            If I’m concerned that the gas station owner is robbing me then I’ll test it myself and if I find that it’s not either the gas station is losing my money or I’ll take up the matter in court if I find it to be that much of an issue.

            I don’t need to use an elevator, I can use the stairs. If the elevator crashes due to negligence and I die, then family has orders to sue their pants off.

            I don’t know how to run an air traffic control center. But I’m glad that there are people who do. If they didn’t and planes crashed into each other there would be hell to pay, I’m sure.

            I can’t say I know how to run a sewage plant either, but the same applies. I’ll gladly pay for that service. I don’t the government to make sure everything’s A-OK on that front.

            Why do you presume to think that I haven’t traveled to foreign countries? There are some “3rd world” countries that are way more free than the US. Sure you may have to grease the wheels with the local cops or give the “el presidente” his cut, but I tell you what, I’ll take that minor bush league tyranny any day of the week and be free to be left alone over the leviathan nanny state we have here.

            And if my house catches fire, don’t worry, I won’t ask you to come put it out. That’s fine, it’s not your responsibility – it’s mine.

            Government is like me putting a .45 to my wife’s head and asking her if she loves me…by golly she tells me so every time! Gosh I love her too…

          • RaunchyDawg

            You would look like someone who doesn’t want his rights infringed upon for the comfort and convenience of others. Thats like saying women have to wear burkas because we men find it offensive and another man could get lustful and coerce them into cheating with them. Extremism on both ends. Idiots who argue other peoples arguments instead of their own on both ends. Sheep say Bah.

          • Yojimbo556

            There is the jackass i was talking about….

          • RaunchyDawg

            I have neither a tail, nor hooves my Friend. Are you the product of core curiculum?

          • RaunchyDawg

            For the record I don’ carry at all. I’d much rather take someones gun from them and shoot them with it. Less jail time that way. If you want to argue just to argue, I’m sure there’s a local chapter of stay at home moms you could join. Otherwise present relevance.

          • Yojimbo556

            Two replies hours apart and spoken like someone who lives in their mothers basement. Take someones gun? Nice try kid, nice try.

          • RaunchyDawg

            Yep, my moms basement. In New York no less. I also collect welfare, and voted. I need to go get my free phone recharged later.

            You probably already guessed all that too though, right?

          • Yojimbo556

            Nah, didnt care. You have screws loose. Enjoy that. Toodles

        • dan citizen

          That’s my insulin pump you monster!

  • pillager1900

    This is the new governemnt required way to open carry. You can open carry only if you can not have easy access to your fire arm. Next will be the requirement that any fire arms on you person in public must be equipped with a locking mechanism. Think about the children.

    -Sarcasim

  • Will

    I have several friends who are long distance truck drivers and they all prefer cross draw holsters. BUT they use actual cross draw holsters. And slip on a jacket when out of the truck. These guys are hauling HIGH priority government materials and mail and are authorized to carry in every state.

    Don’t know the pictured guys story but he needs to talk to a CFI and get some useful carry tips.

    Personal opinion: open carry is NOT a good idea. It will get you shot first.

    • echelon

      Puuhlease! Can we stop with this “open carry puts you at a tactical disadvantage” nonsense?

      Do you realize that you sound just like the anti’s every time they say there’s “going to be blood in the streets” when pro gun legislation passes?

      I and many other people open carry every day and I’m yet to find myself in the cross hairs of any bandits, robbers or murderers!

      Could it potentially happen? I suppose. And there’s a slight chance I could get hit by a bus the next time I cross the street or get struck by lightning…

      Most criminals are cowards looking for the easy score. They use a gun or weapon as a tool of fear and control. They ASSUME you aren’t armed. Typically they want to live just as much as the next guy so when they see someone packing on their hip they will move along to the next easy target.

      I could turn it around and say you’re more likely to get yourself into a bad situation by carrying concealed because to the criminal you look just like every other unarmed sheep!

      • Standard Velocity

        Open carry makes you look like a lunatic unless you are a cop displaying a badge. The majority of Americans (myself included) get nervous seeing open carry. A CWP is relatively easy to get and I don’t trust a gun I’m not in control of. Maybe the guy next to me in Best Buy is an experienced and responsible firearms user or maybe he is a Mall Ninja, in the mall, itching for a fight to justify his sad existence.

        You work at a gun range/gun store/personal security firm; fine, open carry at work. You’re in Best Buy; cover up and be the hero the .05% of the time it is necessary while giving those around you a false sense of security the other 99.95% of the time.

        • guest

          Fuck off

          • Bill

            And that pretty much sums up the intellectual horsepower of the OC crowd.

        • echelon

          Let me get this straight:

          You actually trust the cops with guns? The same guys that are swatting houses and killing people, serving warrants at the wrong house and killing family pets, killing kids with videogame controllers in their hands, killing kids with toy guns in their hands, raping women that are in their custody, assaulting people until they die? Those people you trust buy you’re worried about a “mall ninja”? How many incidents of death ring out everyday due to those people I wonder?

          I’m sorry that my right to OPENLY bear arms offends you. What’s the freaking difference anyway? A gun in an IWB holster is arguably harder to get into action than one OWB. Otherwise, gosh, why don’t our policemen and women conceal carry so that they don’t offend MY sensibilities!?!

          It’s comments like yours that cement in my mind for me the knowledge that we’ll never ever get our true 2A rights “restored” by our benevolent government because even people who are supposedly “pro 2A” aren’t really.

          You can’t complain about Bloomberg, Feinstein, Moms Demand Action or any of the rest who cry for gun control when all you really want or are content with is a milder form of control.

          A “CWP” shouldn’t be “relatively easy to get” in any way shape or form it’s your God given, natural RIGHT. I could care less if you conceal it, OC it, whatever. As long as you’re not infringing my rights then we’re copacetic.

          • Well that was insulting to every police officer on the planet including a good number of our readers.
            Me —–I have pretty tough hide and heard a lot worse but please refrain from that kind of talk out of consideration for other readers who support police officers and the officers that read TFB.

          • echelon

            Hey, I just call it like I see it. Every example I listed I can give you the link to the story.

            I know and am friends with cops from various agencies and they are all around good guys for the most part. And when they have their honest moments they agree that there is a lot of bad stuff happening in many agencies that gets swept under the rug.

            If I use my right to defend myself and kill someone with a gun I can expect that I may lose a great deal of time, money and possibly freedom, even if it is justified.

            It is sad indeed when “officer safety” now rules the day and the duty to “serve and protect” is no longer a true oath that is followed. Most of the officers in these cases were give Paid Leave, an “investigation” was done and they were found to be “good shoots” and the officer was placed back into service. That would be the equivalent of me getting a paid vacation for a self defense situation.

            And while you’re sticking up for yourself and your friends and family please remember that I was just sticking up for myself for being called a lunatic and a jackass for being an open carry advocate. Again, just exercising my God given and natural right.

          • valorius

            I completely agree with this post.

          • Kyle

            Every open carry person I’ve met has been an embarrassment to those who support the 2nd. They have always been about “look at me!!!” instead of responsible firearm ownership.

            I’m not saying I don’t support open carry, it’s just that the dumb ones seem to get the most attention.

            Now that I think about it, it’s like that with police too. There are around 150,000+ of them in America, and the vast majority are hard working people trying to serve their communities. Its by far a slim minority that are causing the problems, but those are the ones always on the news.

            Here’s to all the responsible constitution upholding citizens, whatever profession they may be…….

          • echelon

            Well there’s plenty of us in plenty of states and we’re neither unhinged nor attention whores.

            As for the police it’s more than just a small minority. I wouldn’t say it’s a majority at this point, and plenty of small departments are pretty sane, but I will say it’s a growing number that is rapidly increasing.

          • Bill

            How many? What’s your source? Do you know how many departments are under consent decrees from the Department of Justice?

          • Skeptical Observer

            You are a noisy attention whore.

          • echelon

            Thanks for the personal attack. I’m just responding the vitriol and trying to have a civil conversation.

          • RaunchyDawg

            The vast majority of them are hard working people who show up to work a job. They are not passionate about fair law. They are passionate about collecting a paycheck. There is nothing wrong with that mentality except when your job directly effects other peoples lives. I work in healthcare, if I make a mistake and it costs a life, I’m out. And my job doesn’t entail the use of force everyday either. Double standard all day, every day.

          • Bill

            There are around 600,000 cops in the US. You seriously think we can all be perfect? Find better drugs. And every good shooting by a civilian here typically gets the a pat on the back from us, we haven’t prosecuted anyone, even some guy who shoot a burglar in the back as he was running way after the homeowner.

            Open carry and colostomy bags: nobody wants to see your shit.

          • echelon

            Then the same can be said for the LEOs. I don’t want to see them walking around in their uniforms with their gun on their hip or their gear. Keep it stowed and out of sight.

            If my gun on my hip is so offensive to you then I think you don’t have much respect for peoples’ natural, God given rights! Do you also want me to shut my mouth and not exercise my right to free speech because you disagree with what I’m saying?

          • Bill

            Frankly, that wouldn’t bother me a bit. Just because you have a right to free speech doesn’t mean that everything you say isn’t stupid. Opinions and anusesโ€ฆ And don’t be too proud of yourself, your open carry isn’t offensive to me, it ‘s just obnoxious and wastes my time when I and couple other cars have to roll on a man with a gun call because some nitwit is exercising his “natural, God-given right” to walk into a pharmacy, convenience store, bank or shopping mall with a visible gun. You aren’t that important, compared to the disturbance you cause, so take your bloated ego out in the middle of the desert and bloviate to the jackrabbits. Or put on an overshirt.

          • echelon

            Now ask yourself: how did our society get this way? It was founded on nitwits like me walking around with guns on our hips.

            I think dispatch should learn to ask questions of gun callers and see if the gun is holstered. If it is tell them to not worry about it.

            And you neglect to think that if the entire population was dutifully exercising their rights as well in an open manner then we wouldn’t have all of these panties-in-a-bunch OMG the guy has a scary gun phone calls!

            And my right must be very offensive to you in order to compel you to respond to me in the manner you have. It is clear to me that if you were given the power to come and take the gun off of my hip you would be more than pleased to do so I’m sure. Especially out of my cold, dead hands, I’d wager.

            I have no giant ego to stroke. How is it that exercising a right has to be this giant, ostentatious thing? To me it’s not, I’ll surely say. It’s as natural as breathing or walking. The world is a place with evil in it. I will defend myself. How hard is that to grasp? Police have no duty to actually protect or defend me or anyone else. Nor would I want them to – it’s first and foremost my duty to protect myself. Not the military, not the government.

            In our day and age that kind of freedom scares people, I get it. That’s why freedom isn’t free.

          • adolf eichman

            Come on- you don’t think Phil is going to break ranks- do you?

          • echelon

            I’m not trying to be provocative or troll. It’s not about anyone “breaking ranks” I would hope that as civilized people who value the right of armed self defense can agree to disagree on things while also hopefully being able to at least understand the others’ points of view.

            I just think it’s very hypocritical to drop the hammer on someone for having a low view of law enforcement in light of all of the evidence of ongoing and escalating police brutality and militarization in our country while simultaneously being silent while others denigrate to name calling and character assassination just because a person prefers to exercise their right to be armed in an open manner.

            To me that’s the height of hypocrisy.

          • Jon

            echelon,
            Your right there are dirt bags in law enforcement, but they represent a very small percentage, most likely less than 1/10 of a percent of the approx. 1 million LEOs in this country. The .01 do however garner the majority of the medias attention. We do not like them around us anymore than you do. With that said as a LEO I have found a far greater percentage of the general populations to be of the dirt bag persuasion than LEOs to be. We are held to a high standard than the general population for a reason. You have a constitutional right to be a dirt bag, LEOs do not!!!!

          • echelon

            Jon, I’m not going to say that I disagree with a lot of what you’ve written. What I will say is that the situation with cops is getting worse. And just like people are quick to point out that there aren’t many Muslims publicly and loudly denouncing ISIS, ISIL, Al qaeda, etc. I could say the same for LEO. If most of the LEO are good then why is the LEO community mostly silent when these bad apple cops pull this stuff? Why do most of these guys get off with paid leave and then get reinstated?

            What I think is often missed in cases like these is the greater picture. Our society has regressed to a point where SWAT teams are kicking in peoples’ doors in the middle of the night dressed like ninjas and throwing flash bangs into babies’ cribs. Why? Because some people may have a “controlled substance”? The question I pose is: Is it worth it?

            I think most people want to be left alone. Every person has vices. Many of those vices are self destructive. Sometimes it can become destructive to others. I say let people be responsible for themselves. If they violate another person’s rights, then the penalties should be swift and severe. But not before then.

            What we’ve come to is an almost “Minority Report” style of law enforcement where we almost want to prosecute pre-crime to stop these supposed things from happening before they happen…

            Well guess what? That’ll never work. There is evil in the world and evil things will always happen.

            Our problem now is lawlessness. From the top to the bottom nobody is respecting LAW. I’m not talking stupid man made statutes, but real, natural, moral law.

          • valorius

            Phil, we have to face the fact that Cops are largely responsible for the bad rep they have in todays america.

          • RaunchyDawg

            After all, I didn’t give cops a bad name.

          • The very low percentage of bad officers gives us all a bad name. We hate them far more than the public does.

          • valorius

            I can show you video after video on you tube of an out of control cop abusing a citizen where the other good cops stand around and do nothing to stop it.

            Cops need to do far more to weed the filth from their ranks.

          • MP

            Perhaps you shouldn’t support police officers if supporting police officers means you want to hide from some of their actions.

            The Nazi’s built some pretty cool machines, so please stop talking about the holocaust because some of us like Mercedes.

          • RaunchyDawg

            If there is a problem citing facts, you can always encourage your buddies to stop committing these atrocities. Do we tell people not to talk badly about average, non police murders for fear of hurting their feelings? Nope. A murderer, rapist, and oppressor is the same no matter what color you wrap him in, or badge you put on his chest.

          • No problem citing facts if they are facts. Most of the time they aren’t facts.

          • RaunchyDawg

            It is a joke that we cannot rightfully defend ourselves and have to wait for police. It is a joke that police are “more qualified” to discharge firearms than civilians. I’m sure that the camera man from cops who was shot while the police engaged a man with an airsoft gun felt he gave his life for the good fight. Anyone who has ever been shot at knows the sound of bullets. An airsoft gun sounds nothing like being on the business end of a real gun. That my friend is offensive.

          • Most of the camera guys are retired officers. Some are even active duty officers and filming for COPS etc. is a second job.
            The makers of the show wanted people who had been there done that thinking they would be safer. COPS came to our PD which is why I know about the background of the guys filming the show.

          • Aaron E

            echelon your open carry arguments are valid, and as a police officer I support the right! My home State has allowed open carry for many years. In most cases, the open carry crowd has been the exact people you would want carrying guns – responsible gun owners who take the responsibility seriously.

            However, some who open carry that have done a great disservice to the pro-firearms crowd, and could likely be disarmed by a toddler. If a person chooses to open carry they need to be constantly vigilant about the firearm that is open for all to see – some OC do and some OC don’t. That’s the only argument.

            You take a passionate argument for freedom and turn it into a bad rant when you cast ugly rhetoric at law enforcement. Yes, I’m familiar with each of the incidents you mention – or similar ones. Everyone knows there are bad cops, the media LOVES to broadcast the evil ones. But with almost 700,000 officers nationwide the overwhelming majority are dedicated to the service they swore an oath to uphold – but the media almost NEVER broadcasts those stories. Sensationalism sells, good old hearty American service does not.

            By using a few bad examples to cast an evil shadow on all cops is blatantly ignorant, only followed up by the brazen claim that the “minority” of bad cops is about to become the “majority” – or course without ANY verifiable evidence to support the weak opinion.

            So here are some sources to challenge your inflated claim:

            The number of deaths caused by police:
            About 400 per year (mostly justified by Grand Juries of CITIZENS). And use of force or threat of force occurred in less than 2% of police contacts with 40 million citizens in 2008.

            http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/

            Now compare to those numbers to the deaths caused by medical malpractice;

            Nearly 440,000 per year (more than America lost in all of WWII)
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/leahbinder/2013/09/23/stunning-news-on-preventable-deaths-in-hospitals/

            You are 1000 times more likely of dying going to see a doctor, than you do in having contact with a police officer.

          • echelon

            I’m not coming at this from some sensationalistic, blatantly ignorant fashion. Nor am I ranting or trolling. I think if you care to read the conversations on here you will see that I’ve never attacked anyone’s character nor slandered anybody, yet look at what people have called me and accused me of! That’s fine – I have thick skin.

            I’m not just trying to point out police actually killing people. I’m pointing out the increased militarization of the force. The mindset. The tactics. I’m talking about rape, abuse, torture, etc. not just “justified homicides”.

            Also look at what you wrote: 700,000 officers! It’s incredible that we even need this many police officers. I question the sanity of having local sheriffs, local police, local constables, state patrol, border patrol, ICE, US Marshals, FBI, DEA, ATF, DHS, CBP, FAMS, TSA, etc.

            Once again, there’s the matter of perspective. You, as an LEO, are worried about citizens who might not have enough training and could do harm or do something stupid. That’s valid. I, as a concerned citizen, am worried about the various agencies running around stripping me of my rights. If I disagree with you in public, while you are in uniform, you can cuff me and arrest me for any number of reasons. You can call it what you like, but I call it tyranny.

            If I showed you a video of 6 people walloping and beating the hell of of someone you’d call it assault and battery by a gang of thugs. If I show you that same video but all 6 people are wearing uniforms and have a badge then it’s called “subduing a perp”. It seems to me that cops have the monopoly on force.

            In the situations I described, once again, an average citizen would probably be charged with manslaughter or some kind of gross negligence in the least. For cops all I see is that they get paid leave, then an investigation happens and then they’re back on duty. That is neither right nor just.

            As far as statistics go, I think something like 80% are made up on the fly…

            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-many-americans-the-police-kill-each-year/

            And once again, it’s not just the justified shootings I’m talking about. It’s the contact all the way around. I’d just as soon steer clear of any interactions with police if at all possible.

            Do I have something to hide? No.

            Am I guilty of something? No.

            But there are enough local, state and federal statutes on the books and more coming each day that I’m sure every man, woman and child in this country is committing a misdemeanor or felony at some point! And once again, lest you and I disagree and I refuse to comply with whatever asinine or capricious demand you ask of me then I do not want to be arrested for “resisting arrest” or “assaulting an officer” or some such and then get clubbed like a baby seal.

            I do appreciate your comments and I’m glad that we mostly see eye to eye on the OC issue. I also do not mean any personal disrespect to you and I do know that there are cops out there that sincerely believe they are doing things that are helpful and beneficial to society. I just happen to respectfully disagree with a lot of what LE does. I see them mostly as the tool of the local, state and federal governments to collect taxes (steal) and to generally do more harm than good.

            I once had a friend of mine, a state patrolman, tell me that he’d rather not have to pull people over for speeding. He said stops were always uncomfortable for him and he knew that the other person’s day was going to be probably worse off for the stop as well. So I told him: Well then don’t stop them for speeding. It’s that simple. Where there is no law there is no trespass.

            He couldn’t comprehend what I was saying. It was black and white for him. It was his Duty to enforce that “law”. It didn’t matter to him if he disagreed with the spirit or intent of the statute. He didn’t want to get into the deeper philosophical aspect of why we should be pulling people over and taking their money on a daily basis and whether that was right or wrong. For him he took an oath, he does his job, he goes home at night. Period.

            To me, that’s scary as all get out. And there’s too many LEOs like that. No introspection, just take orders and carry them out. Thus, I hope you can see, my apprehension.

        • mosinman

          i actually feel safer when i see someone OC as opposed to police.
          where OC is legal it should be done no matter if people don’t like it

          • Jon

            While I support the OC concept your statement is pretty stupid, because you make the false assumption only good guys would open carry.

          • mosinman

            i know it’s not always the case, but wouldn’t most criminals conceal their weapons till they were going to use them? like for example, if someone is going to hold you up wouldn’t it make more sense that’d they’d hide the pistol until you get close?

          • Bill

            So if you are sitting in a movie theater watching the premier of a movie, or shopping for a new wife-beater at the mall, and somebody walks in carrying a rifle, you feel safer? If that happens, give them a wink and a nod and make sure that they see your carry gun, too. Let us know how that works out for you, or maybe we’ll just have to read about it in the paper.

          • mosinman

            i was talking about pistols not rifles. and how you carry it is also a factor. if they’re waving it around or holding it in a ready position they’re a fool. i won’t be too concerned by someone carrying a rifle on their back on the street or something. i just wonder how there aren’t a bunch of deaths due to the sheer horror of rifles being in the open at shooting ranges where everyone is openly armed.(sarcasm)
            just because i’m for carrying your weapon (concealed or open) doesn’t mean i’m for being irresponsible.

          • Bill

            The OC crowd doesn’t differentiate between handguns and rifles. I KNOW when I’m in a theater or store that there are other armed people there. When they are open carrying it just makes it necessary for me to pay extra attention to them: are they some attention whore, a robber, or there to off their girlfriend who just dumped them fro domestic violence?

            Do you know how many suicides are committed at public ranges? Just curious.

          • RaunchyDawg

            If I have my own pistol on my side I do, see how that works. You know that feeling of security you get when you walk up on a perp? Ya, comforting isnt it. Thanks for continuing to deny us the same feeling of security

          • Bill

            If you need to openly display a firearm to feel secure, you have serious problems. Mere possession of a firearm doesn’t make anyone secure. That requires training, experience, a constellation of tactical skills and an awareness that a whole lot of things can go wrong, really fast.

            Any cop who feels secure when they “walk up on a perp” is too complacent to be working the street, and well on their way to being a statistic. Good cops find a position of advantage, behind cover, and make the perp move to a position of greater disadvantage, before anyone does anything.

            Further, this is about open carry, not any carry. When I’m at a movie premier I’m certainly armed, squeezed into the seat with my pistol, spare mags and flashlight, under a cover garment. I’ve also got my cell set to vibrate, so when I start getting texts and tweets about a mass shooting in another movie theater in a different state I can keep up on what’s going on.

          • RaunchyDawg

            I encourage you to show up and do your beat without your sidearm today. It shouldn’t lend to your feeling of security and your ability to conduct your job.

            In a debate we usually stay on topic. But I’ll entertain your wild side rant.

            I forgot that everyone is assumed guilty to a police officer in America. Otherwise you wouldn’t immediately “find a position of advantage, get behind cover and make the perp move to a position of greater disadvantage” before any positive identification is made or the scenario is assessed.

            A generalized application of force is always the wrong application of force when it is employed against those you are charged to protect. EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty. They must have left that out in the academy in lieu of teaching that the founding fathers of my country were terrorists.

          • Bill

            You were the one who used the term “perp,” not me. And I can typically do this without the “perp”knowing what’s happening, because I’ve already been working on assessing what’s going on since that time of the call, to the time spent observing what’s occurring from that position of advantage, to and through the time of initial contact until the end of the encounter.

            I suggest that you actually go through an Academy before passing unfounded judgements about what is being taught there. But don’t mention anything about needing a firearm to give you a sense of security, that’s an automatic screen-out during the psychological assessment.

            One of the things you’ll learn if you keep your mouth shut and learn instead of trying to tell your instructors how to do their jobs is that a cop’s weapons are not only for defense of self, but defense of others. Are you suggesting that I not handle any “shots fired” calls anywhere, or go on any domestics, or respond to any prowler calls, or not make any DUI stops, or do any of the other things i do to protect the public? It’s kind of pointless for me to go on an active killer call if you don’t want me to carry the tools I might need to do my job.

            How long do you want to flay this dead horse?

          • RaunchyDawg

            Until the point is confirmed that firearms provide a sense of security for us lesser civilians that aren’t fit to be mighty police officers.

            I guess the pioneers would not have passed the academy screening either.

            The 2nd amendment provides a means of securing freedom through firearms.

            See how security and firearms are tied together.

            Nobody cares what your exam says because it obviously doesn’t weed out bad cops.

        • Yellow Devil

          Well good thing the rest of us who choose to open carry could care less about everyone else “feeling” nervous. From my experience, most people don’t even really notice or care anyways, but maybe the people who live in my area have better things to be worried about.
          For the record, I do mostly CC, but there are just some days I don’t give a fart.

          • BryanS

            And that no one notices would factor into the “OMG your the first one to get shot!!!1!1!”… Unless your perps are elite eagle eye ninja operators operating in their finest operations.

        • Funny, my ex-wife rarely has problems (even people staring. . . at her gun, anyway ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) open carrying a full size piece of Combat Tupperware with two spare mags. With Hello Kitty stickers on the floorplates.

        • Gwolf

          What is a CWP?

          Carry With Permission?

          Wife’s government’s or both?

          • gunslinger

            concealed weapon permit
            in PA it’s actually a “License to Carry Firearms”

      • valorius

        Open carry puts you at a tactical disadvantage.

        • echelon

          I know right? I keep telling all the police and soldiers that too, but they just won’t conceal regardless. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Yellow Devil

            Don’t give them any ideas please. It’s one step below going out on patrol with your soft cap so you don’t upset the locals.

          • valorius

            A lot of cops and soldiers have been ambushed pre-emptively because they were an obvious impediment to ciminal or enemy activity.

          • Bill

            As in PA last weekend, right outside their office, at shift change, when there couldn’t have been more cops around.

          • valorius

            Precisely.

          • RaunchyDawg

            That was because the guy was irate that they were openly carrying their weapons wasnt it. Because the guy then went on to shoot the next openly carrying civilians he saw, and has been shooting everyone who carries openly ever since. You are ignorant and your decision making ability is clearly clouded by your inability to control your emotions. You have no place in any profession where the use of deadly force is left up to your individual judgement since you cannot even carry on a respectful conversation on the internet.

          • echelon

            Would that be because they were armed openly or could be attributed to their uniforms and obvious activity?

            Do you have any hard sources of any such ambushes?

            Further do you have any sources of instances where armed civilians were in fact ambushed preemptively due to carrying openly?

            I’m not trolling, I’m being very serious. If there are facts to consider I want to know them.

            As it stands I think the position of being openly armed and getting shot or attacked by a would be criminal is a pure boogey man in the closet argument. It’s exactly the same as the liberal “blood will run in the streets” argument every time a pro 2A law gets passed or strengthened.

            I think it’s possible, sure. But so could getting hit a by a bus or getting struck by lightning. The chances are so infinitesimally small as to not be a major concern though.

          • valorius

            In pa 2 state troopers just got sniped last week.

            In boston the tsanaevs ambushed a killed a cop specifically to take his gun, or so it was reported.

            Armed guards are commonly, if not routinely the first person that armed robbers engage/secure during a robbery.

            Carrying concealed allows a wolf or shepherd to appear as a sheep. It is the equivalent to air force bombers using commercial flight lanes to launch a surprise attack.

            Stealth, the us military has spent trillions to develop what we can accomplish with a good concealment rig.

            Oc does have its place. I used to oc sometimes when repossessing in really bad areas or serving subpoenas, but i overwhelmingly prefer cc.

          • echelon

            The shooting of the cops took place at the Blooming Grove barracks out in a wooded area. The shooter obviously had a motive to kill people in that area. The DC snipers randomly shot anyone they could, didn’t matter if they were armed or not. That shouldn’t be reason to not OC it should be reason to reflect that life is not a guarantee and you could die at any moment.

            Armed guards at high value places are often targeted. Sometimes they are also the ones to stop the invasion. Such as the armed guards that stopped the would be spree killers in Arapahoe, San Antonio and Oregon, to name a few.

            The same principles that stealth and surprise give would be saviors is also the same tactic used by the bad guys to get into places and shoot the place up.

            My intent in open carrying is not meant to be some be all end all thing. I just think the “open carry is a tactical disadvantage” argument is a boogey man.

            An evil person intent on harm that has the element of surprise is ALWAYS at the tactical advantage. People open up their doors and get blasted or bum rushed. Answer: Home Carry, preferably openly. Will it GUARANTEE that you live through the encounter? No. Nothing is guaranteed.

            Contrary to Hollywood myth and legend, the “Wild” West wasn’t all the wild. And everyone was armed openly. But yes the Wells Fargo stage coaches carrying money were targets – but you didn’t see the Pinkertons carrying concealed either!

          • valorius

            I didnt say a word about the dc snipers.

            Open carry deliberately gives away the element of surprise. Sometimes, the deterrent value can make up for that, but in most cases, it does not.

          • echelon

            You missed my point. You were using the Pennsylvania incident as proof that the cops open carrying was somehow the reason that they were targeted for the shooting.

            I was saying that I don’t think that was the reason. It seems pretty clear that the shooter already had a premeditated motive to shoot people at that particular spot – precisely BECAUSE is was a barracks for LEO. Them being armed was neither here nor there, really although yes, I’m sure he chose to do long range shooting as a good tactical method since he knew they would be armed.

            I brought up the DC snipers as a counterpoint to show that being openly armed or not gives someone roughly the same chance of being shot out of hand as someone who is not openly armed.

            It wouldn’t have mattered if any of the victims would’ve been carrying concealed because they would’ve just been pumping gas or carrying about their business and the next thing they would have had is a bullet in the head. Game over.

            That brings us back to the main point: Anyone who is determined to do evil is always going to be at an advantage tactically speaking because most of the time the victim is not ready for it.

            Your camp says that carrying concealed gives the would be victim that same element of surprise in a given situation. This may or may not be true.

            If a criminal decides that I am going to be the mugging victim for the day and I look like every other sheep in the flock I am most likely going to be approached and have contact with the criminal and they will attempt to accost me. From there the situation can go any number of ways, both good and bad.

            But if we set up the same situation but with me being armed openly then most likely the said criminal is going to go, oh this isn’t another ordinary sheep, this sheep is ready for me. I think I’ll move along and find a different sheep. Thus contact is avoided entirely and there is no chance of a bad outcome.

            I believe daily this is the much more likely scenario to be faced rather than a heavily armed, Hollywood movie style scenario.

            But just like everyone else in this game, I’m just playing the odds…I personally don’t care how someone else chooses how to play. In this case, concealed or open, doesn’t matter. The main point is to be armed and have a ready mindset.

          • Very true and I have been ambushed so I can vouch for that.

      • Shooting With A Purpose

        Open carry is only appropriate in a limited number of places, for the most part it is a political statement. Almost without exception it will place you at a tactical disadvantage because the bad guy will home in on you right from the start. In a adverse encounter the concealed carry will allow you to choose when and if to fight, if you choose to engage the aggressor it will allow you to go active on your schedule when it is to your tactical advantage not the bad guys.

        I support the right to own and bear arms including open carry. That said, it is a tactic that does not improve survival when the bad guy initiates an attack.

        • echelon

          As I’ve asked time and time again and gotten no reply: Where is the proof and the stats to back up your argument?

          If someone is intent on evil and murder is their MO I don’t think having a gun on my hip or under my shirt is going to matter much. In fact I could state that the inverse would be true: cowardly criminals will balk at the sight of openly armed people. It’s not a political statement it’s a statement about worldview and mindset. It immediately says: I’m willing to defend myself and those around me. That tells the criminal that they will not have an easy score.

          The only reason it’s a political statement at all is because we’ve let the government trample our rights for so long and we’ve let the fictional worldview of “we live in a civilized country” to seep into our brains so that everyone lives in a make believe fairytale land.

          And even if I were to grant that it might be a tactical disadvantage, which again I don’t, then it’s still my right to choose how I carry, not anyone else’s.

          The stats and evidence I find tells me that whenever the good guy has a gun and it is present the bad guy either flees, flees and commits suicide, or gets dead by said good guy.

          I’m sure there are some instances where the good guy gets dead. In fact when those two nuts killed those cops in Vegas the…wait for it…concealed carrier got killed while engaging one of the murderers. It wouldn’t have mattered if he was openly carrying or not he didn’t know there were two baddies. At least he got one. That’s life – there’s no guarantees. He could’ve easily just ran away and lived, but no he chose to engage and fight to protect himself and those around him – and he paid the ultimate price.

          I could get hit by a bus or get struck by lightning but that doesn’t mean it’s a statistically high enough probability to keep me cloistered away in my house. Likewise the probability of getting offed by a bad guy just because I’m open carrying is so small that it doesn’t deter me one bit.

    • Mike

      I just so happen to be in the industry. I deal with Mil bases and FEMA on a regular basis. It is illegal for firearm to be in a truck. I can tell you, without a doubt, that no truck driver hauling mail is authorized to carry in the truck. Period, end of story.

      There are very few cases where armed, unmarked escorts are required, but those people would not be talking. Even when dealing with MRAPs, Helis, tanks, etc there are no armed truck drivers.

      As I said, there are very few cases of high security, but those drivers and those involved do not speak about it. I would call BS on your friends…

      • Jack Deez

        Always gots to look cool in the Home Depot on your side with your saggy fried egg boobs ole lady on your other wing. Lookin all hard buyin two rose bushes and a bag of bird seed. Hoooahh.

  • Rokurota

    Left handed, accidentally ordered the RH draw holster, waiting for the replacement from Midway USA.

  • Rokurota

    Heard cavalry draw was back in style. Didn’t get the memo from Tex Grebner.

  • Dan b.

    Y’all must be Christians because you sure are quick to judge everyone else.

    • If that were the case they shouldn’t be judging others—–it’s in the rules:-)

      • RaunchyDawg

        Neither was paid entry to heaven. Or the crusades.

  • Jeff Smith

    The real faux pas here is those acid washed jeans.

    • gunslinger

      you sir, win.

    • Beju

      COTD.

    • barry

      And the belt does not match the shirt or shoes.

      • Jeff Smith

        “There are only three things I would fight: the stubborn clasp of a bra, a paternity suit – nine for ten, and the urge to vomit whenever I see someone wear brown shoes with a black suit.” – Barney Stinson

  • Jimmy

    His MO here is as follows:
    “Look man, if someone’s gonna snatch my piece off my hip, they’re gonna do it to my face!”

    • Jim_Macklin

      In a crowd in the parking lot, there will be three or more of them, all doing nothing until they are within arms length and you’re surrounded.
      If you are interested in looking like a Western Hero you have to accept the fact that weapons retention failures will arm the thugs unless you’re also in a Band of Brothers.

  • gunslinger

    what about shoulder holsters? don’t you cross draw with them?
    i don’t use them, but just wondering.

    • Bill

      Yes you do, which is why a lot of users only use them under special circumstances. They have all of the disadvantages of the cross draw, plus it often requires two hands to reholster.

  • Hanover Fiste

    Reminds me of this classic.

    • Hanover Fiste

      Well crap, I can’t seem to post the Far Side comic ‘How Nature Says Do Not Touch’

  • EricTheRed79

    So much fail in one picture! Stone washed jeans derp, Ruger SR derp pistol, Serpa derp, cross draw derp etc.

    • justme

      What are you the fashion police? And what’s wrong with a Serpa? Discharges while using a Serpa just tells me that you don’t know how to draw a firearm. And Rugers? What’s wrong with Rugers? and Crossdraw? What’s wrong with crossdraw? I see a lot of DERP in your comment…so please enlighten us you high-speed low-drag elite tactical tier-0 operator

      • Jon

        Ok, I will deal with the cross draw. It allows someone standing in front of you to draw your weapon before you. Cross draw is for the movies not the real world go back to playing Call of Duty. The adults are talking here. Also nothing wrong with the Serpa as long as the holster is on the side it was designed for. As for the Ruger if you have to ask, reread the third sentence!!!!!

        • Bill

          Actually, there is a lot wrong with the SERPA. Unless kept meticulously clean and dry, the release mechanism can collect crud, and some have even frozen, preventing the pistol from being drawn. They also require that the trigger find apply inward pressure to release the pistol, which takes a boatload of training to quit applying once the pistol is unlocked. Thats’ a non-issue with thumbreaks and hooded holsters.

          While the Army and Marines are issuing them, the Air Force and number of agencies ban them.

          • RaunchyDawg

            You find an issue with a boatload of training with something that takes human life?! You are a cop?!?! What in the eff.

          • Bill

            You as the taxpayer are paying for it. I can train someone to draw from a thumb-break in 15 minutes, do some dry practice and go live. To train someone to use their trigger finger to apply pressure, then stop applying pressure, then prepare to apply pressure again, requires a lot more than that, and it’s a perishable skill that they’ll loose if they don’t practicing constantly, and the average cop doesn’t practice at all. I have a limited amount of time and resources to provide training. Would you prefer that time be spent on screwing around with a holster, or on how to get good hits under pressure?

            We spend an entirely separate training block on weapons retention, and the training is the same regardless of the type of holster. The techniques don’t vary, and aren’t open for discussion on a publice forum.

          • RaunchyDawg

            Again, stay on topic. The issue is not who paid for the holster, as I’m sure this guy is not any form of LEO or soldier. Therefore, the original comment made by me stands. Regardless of who paid for the equipment, if its nature is to take lives, you have a responsibiliy, civilian or LEO or soldier, to learn and train on the equipment. Otherwise you are a part of the problem, not the solution. I practice a lot with my firearms. I spend my own money doing so. I only have the responsibility to protect myself and my own family. I am not someone who puts on a badge every day and claims to protect people. I still spend time to make myself safe with my chosen equipment. Standing there making excuses as to why the training is not conducted is a poor leadership quality.

            also, if the average cop doesn’t practice at all, then he sure as hell doesn’t out qualify me to protect myself in an active shooter scenario. His decision making abiliy when bullets are flying at him are no better than mine. Yet, I am to retreat and wait for people to show up who don’t train on their equipment, may or may not shoot everyone around and all the animals and destroy all kinds of things while having a crazy wild west shootout with a drug addict waving an airsoft gun.

  • Ratcraft

    He one upped the fanny pack.

  • 1911a145acp

    All REAL operator’s would recognize deep,deep…DEEP tactical crossdraw.

  • valorius

    Serpas are great for nd’s.

    • justme

      My Serpa never hurt anyone. It’s a training issue, not a gear issue.

      • valorius

        Its a stupid design.

        • justme

          Only if you are ignorant. That’s what training is for. Serpa gets ragged on because people don’t know how to draw a firearm correctly…so of course it must not be an issue with what they are doing with the gear but rather the gear itself. It’s easier to blame the gear than the ignorance… :shrug:

          • valorius

            If you need specific training to not shoot yourself due to your holster choice, you chose poorly.

            A thumb break or tension holster is a far superior time proven option.

          • RaunchyDawg

            Very ignorant post. Everyone needs some form of training at some point in their lives to even cock a weapon, let alone train on a specialized piece of equipment. Ignorant.

          • valorius

            I disagree, a lot of gun owners never get even a single lesson. And that is true times ten for holster owners.

            So right back at you.

          • RaunchyDawg

            A cow probably disagrees that it needs eaten, but my burger is still delicious.

            A lot of irresponsible gun owners are the reason there is even a gun debate at all. Trolling internet forums instead of training on your equipment is a good way to shoot yourself while drawing from an unfamiliar holster.

          • valorius

            Not everyone is tactical johnny, nor do they need to be…..unless they buy a serpa.

          • RaunchyDawg

            To not train until the point of muscle memory on every piece of your weapon platform is irresponsible and reflects poorly on the individual. I do not claim to be a tactical God. What I do claim is a level of proficiency that renders my firearms and all pieces associated as a tool, under my control at all times, instead of a risk to myself and those around me. Do not advocate for firearms without advocating for religious safety and practice.

          • valorius

            Yep. Tactical johnny.

          • RaunchyDawg

            In any event, I’d rather be called a “tactical Johny” than be a dumbass who trolls internet forums with nothing but fear and hate on his tongue. Preach to the fools in your redneck neighborhood who think highly of you, the rest of us in the world recognize a vaginal cleaning device when we see one.

          • valorius

            Awww, ad hominem attacks? How childish.

            I’m very disappointed in you Tactical johnny.

          • RaunchyDawg

            Old man, your retired infantry status holds no weight in this common sense argument. As for your assumption that I am not an operator we both know that assumptions make an ass out of you. And I just laugh.

            I’m free to engage you on any intellectual level you wish as we have clearly seen you peak.

            You are furthermore a disgrace to the blue cord by advocating against rigorous gun training.

            You are right, many owners do not train, however where you run aground is using this knowledge to strengthen a stance against training rigorously on equipment designed to aid in the taking of human life.

            Your personal opinion of a product does not mean you should spread dissent and misinformation to your peers for the sake of getting your name out.

            Signed
            Random person on the internet

          • valorius

            What are doing on the internet. You should be out drilling on your serpa!

        • whskee

          Please expound on why it’s ‘stupid’? Widespread MIL/LEO use, versatile mounting options, secure hold, simple release, wide variety of pistols compatible, varied retention levels available? Those are all stupid benefits I guess?

          ND’s are very rare in service use [fault of the serpa], no doubt because it’s use is actually trained. If you use your finger to push the release like a button, you’re doing it wrong, and are much more likely to put the booger picker on the bang switch. That is what is stupid.

          It’s also really, really easy to modify them such as to eliminate the release and make them into tension holsters. The release can get jammed on occasion from sliding hard, but you’ve almost got to be trying to jam it on purpose. It’s not the most high-speed thing ever but was innovative at creation, filled a desired need, and was a step beyond the other then-available options. I don’t see that as stupid.

          • valorius

            Widespread nd’s.

            Stupid.

          • whskee

            I highly doubt they are as ‘widespread’ as you think. A youtube video and some blog rumblings do not reality make… I’m in close contact with several very large training groups and they’ve not had a problem. I’d estimate they’ve trained no less than 5k students over the last 10 years without any issue. We do track ND’s, and the only one I see mentioning the Serpa holster directly came from USN NSW SBT-22, where a SWCC took one down the leg when his line coach yanked his shirt after it got pulled in while holstering. No defect, just bad circumstance. If it’s an issue for you just don’t use it, but don’t spread FUD.

          • valorius

            Fud this.

            The serpa is the answer to a question no one ever asked.

          • Core

            You must have short stubby little girl fingers if you cant clear the trigger when you skin that smoke train ala serpa.. Drawn hundreds of time via serpa never came close to touching the trigger, go back to ya couch!

          • valorius

            Awwww, ad hominem, how original.

            Hundreds of whole times huh? Wow….ive done that in one range session countless times.

          • RaunchyDawg

            Didn’t you just advocate not training meticulously in a previous post? Are you drunk?

        • David Sharpe

          Only if the person using it is stupid.

          • valorius

            Or less than perfect, like every human ever born.

  • E M Johnson

    Hah-Hah, don’t you guys know anything? He obviously is a student of the Jerry M. School of off hand upside down long range pinky shooting.

    …sarcasm off

  • Jeff

    The guy in the photo is probably an idiot. But there is some historical support for this method of carry. Back when horses were the preferred method of travel, and pistols were single-action revolvers with six-inch barrels, “Cavalry Carry” was common. In fact, it was just as comfortable at a poker table as it was atop a steed. And very few men were bold enough (or tall enough) to carry an 1860 Colt Navy revolver at the appendix position.

    But here, both his holster selection and his pistol selection tell me that this guy is not an enthusiast. Most likely, he saw it in a movie and thought it looked cool. Oh, well. At least he probably votes right.

    • David Sharpe

      Cavalry carry is what I initially thought, but there is no way to release the gun from the holster that way.

  • Sig_Sauer

    maybe he’s dyslexic

    • Gern Blanston

      lol. yep I bet he’s lisdexic…

  • Steve

    Carrying what you are comfortable and practice with is far better than carrying once a month or less…

    Good for him for exercising his right to bear arms. So much for “firearms, not politics” when you post something like this…

    • Nicholas C

      Perhaps you should do a little more critical reading. I was not criticizing his choice to open carry. I do question his choice of holster and more importantly, where he wears it on his body. Not that it is out in the open, but on his left side. Cross draw like a Samurai would require the gun to be tilted so it is drawn out of the holster in a similar angle as a sword. This guy has it vertical.Try reaching across your body to activate that release paddle. It isn’t impossible but surely more awkward than it needs to be. Also if you look at the position of where the barrel is, in relation to his pants. It appears that the holster is behind the hip line. Similar to USPSA rules, holsters have to be behind the hip bones. If the holster is behind his hip bones, then it is EVEN more difficult to reach around with his right hand to draw that gun.

      • Steve

        I think you missed the point of my response – I’ll dumb it down a bit:

        All this picture shows is a man open carrying. You may not agree with his method of carrying, but you have nothing to support the level of practice he may or may not have, or his reasons for carrying this way. In my mind that is the same as making fun of someone acting a certain way only to find out they have a developmental disability or similar.

        Consider driving a car with hand controls – using your words, they aren’t impossible but surely more awkward than they need to be. It’s a stretch, but maybe he has a reason for carrying like this; I give him the benefit of the doubt before passing judgement and posting his (albeit, relatively anonymous) photo on the internet.

  • Jim_Macklin

    Crossdraw works great if you’re a truck driver, drive a taxi or are a riverboat gambler. But from a proper holster. And not behind the hip, run the seat belt under the grip.
    If you have long arms it works well, but if you have a short sleeve length, not so good.
    Back in the 60s, when the State of Illinois adopted the S&W Model 39, the rumor was that the wife of some desk officer picked a Sam Brown, black, full flap holster without any spare magazine since the rig wasn’t “sharp looking” with too much on the belt.
    Fashion killed a few officers if I remember correctly, running out of ammo with a single stack Model 39 was to be expected. That played a part in adopting the Model 59.
    Open carry in a simple holster is an invitation to the thugs out there, to get close and take your gun. You can’t draw and fire on some guys who are close until they do something overt and then it is too late.
    If you’re with some armed friends who can watch each others backs, a group of farmers, Boy Scouts [or scoutmasters], or a family friends get-together, open carry can be safe and good PR or it can be a PR disaster.
    You’re a public message, think what you look like to the criminals, the undecided voter and the lastly, how your friends see you.

  • Uniform223

    BAH-HAHAHA!!! this picture made my day thank you so much!!.

  • Dinkum_Thinkum

    Cross draw, when you want to carry a gun that’s more convenient to draw for the person you are grappling with than it is for you…

  • Secundius

    Isn’t it funny when people inside a store get that special “Kumbaya” feeling, the moment when somebody walks into the same store with a loaded gun!!!

  • kyphe

    This manner of carry may make the gun owner feel he is less intimidating to bystanders as it is obviously not a quick draw set up, or he may feel the gun is harder to take away from him from behind.

    or he could just think he looks cool.

    There was a time when police and military officers wore right handed pistols on the left in a holster with a big ol flap