B&T APC9 Submachine Gun

bt_apc9-tm-tfb

Brügger & Thomet, who are best know for the B&T MP9 Submachine gun and TP9 Pistol, have developed a new 9mm submachine gun called the B&T APC9. This UZI-sized gun is very lightweight, fully ambidextrous, has quad rails and take MP9/TP9 magazines. B&T are marketing is as a package, with stocks, accessories and suppressors.

© Aurelien. Simular in looks and has similar design goals as the CZ Skorpion EVO III.

With submachine guns being replaced in the USA by carbines, and with PDW-style guns in Europe, I am pleased to see the classic 9mm sub-gun is not yet dead.

[ Many thanks to Aurelien for providing the info and photos. ]

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Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Ilgar Ö.Değirmenci

    In the picture the magazine well seems to be bigger than it should be . Maybe a conversion kit in future for a PDW like weapon ? Anyway , it’s a good design , looks solid .

    • ducky

      Right – the mag well area was designed with a 5.56mm version in mind which reportedly is in the works right now. Uses AR15 trigger parts. Muzzle attachment like at the MP5.
      Sticking to some pretty scarce mag type doesn’t seem to be the answer.
      Better would be different mag well adapters to allow use of a wide variety of pistol mags.

  • Other Steve

    I love my TP9. I have noticed quite a bit more blowback when suppressed compared to my MP5, but it’s so much smaller and lighter!

    I am guessing they are going for an inexpensive alternative to the very expensive to make TP9/MP9. For anyone that has never seen the workings of those, they’re extremely complex to machine. This gun looks to me to be blowback, cheap. The stock looks like b&t’s mp5 folder, the rest overall seems like a 3/4 sized UMP.

    My guess is B&T wants to make what the UMP should have been, a very inexpensive replacement to MP5/Uzi.

    • Calimero

      Hi Other Steve,

      Here are the expected retail prices on the French civilian market for semi-auto versions only (just to show you “relative” cost, not actual cost which would probably be lower in the US):
      - TP9/MP9 Gen 1 bumped from 2000EUR to 2200EUR as far as I remember
      - TP9/MP9 Gen 2 around 2500EUR
      - APC9 around 2500EUR

      They all come with one 15rd mag, two 30-rounders, a plastic case, an OTIS cleaning kit, a single point sling and an Aimpoint Micro TL1 with QD mount.

      The APC9 has no iron sights while the TP9/MP9 has sights (small ghost ring).

      Suppressor for the TP9/MP9 adds another 600-700EUR. Very efficient suppressor although quite bulky.

      The APC9′s barrel has the same three lugs as the MP5.

      The trigger is compatible with AR-15 triggers (maybe not all of them though). Which would allow better triggers than the very long and heavy MP9/TP9 trigger. The APC’s factory trigger is decent.

      Actually it’s now the TP9/MP9 that looks a bit overpriced compared to the APC9 which is more sturdy. But they are different niches, the MP9/TP9 being really small and concealable while the APC is more of an alternative to aging MP5s.

      Ilgar, there’s a .45 ACP version (it was shown at Milipol too but won’t ship before a few months). And B&T might have planned ahead for a 5.7×28 or 4.7×30 but there’s no information on that.

      Most pictures don’t do the APC9 justice. When I first saw pictures two months ago I was like “Meh.” . But once you see it in real life and shoulder it, it’s really nice. Ergonomics are really good.

      The magwell does indeed look a bit off, but it’s not that big a problem.

      • Other Steve

        Calimero thanks for the price info…. but I find a couple of odd things with your comments.

        First off, B&T is nuts to price this at or above the TP9/MP9. The only advantage I can see in the ACP is it is a more traditional subgun layout with the mag in front of the grip. Seeing the price, I am doubting it’s blowback because how could they justify a blowback gun costing as much as the delayed rotating barrel action of the TP9?

        The mags look VERY similar to TP9.

        Um, YES, the TP9 does come with “sights”. But, they have no come with Ghost ring sights for years. At least here in the US. The ghost ring is discontinued. Along that matter. The TP9′s sights are the most USELESS setup I have ever see on any gun. An optic is a must. They might as well not be there.

        It’s cool the ACP uses AR triggers I guess. But do you actually have any experience with the TP9′s trigger? I ask because it’s glock-like trigger is FAR better than any stock AR-15 trigger I have ever used. You write it’s long and heavy…. I wonder what you must think of the actually long and heavy MP5 trigger then. The TP9 can roll of double and triple taps with ease, something I absolutely can not do with an MP5. There is nothing “wrong” with the TP9′s trigger.

        The TP9 at $1000 US is a steal for just how cool the action is, how well the gun shoots (AS AN SBR, I am not interested in it’s pistol config AT ALL), how reliable I’ve found it to be, etc etc. I am just not seeing what this does better. I absolutely can not imagine the ACP being “sturdier”.

        You seem to have experience with at least handling both, so I’m giving you the benifit of the doubt. But, your TP9 comments can not be further from my own, and I’ve owned one for a couple years now. Different strokes I guess! :)

      • Calimero

        Hi again Steve,

        The mags are indeed the same as the TP9/MP9 (slightly modified inside, but still backward compatible).

        Two friends of mine have MP9s (semi-auto only, as private citizens are not allowed to own automatic weapons in France).

        Most recent one was bought new in december last year through BGM (exclusive distributor/importer of B&T for France).

        Trigger pull is very long and heavy. It doesn’t “rattle” like a stock Glock trigger. It is smooth. But travel is longer and heavier than a stock Glock 17.

        Same behaviour on both MP9s.

        My “Mil-Specish” AR (Sabre Defense) has very decent trigger compared to the MP9 : shorter travel, slightly lighter (but not as “smooth”).

        At the range we have a Turkish MP5 clone (MKE T94) and yeah, the trigger is so so. Not as smooth as the MP9′s trigger but not any heavier.

        Rear sight is indeed a ghost ring:
        See here: http://www.bt-ag.ch/pdf/TS-MP9.pdf

        Of course not a huge ring as on a shotgun. Think Ameriglo’s Glock ghost ring night sights.

        I agree that shooting with the Aimpoint is more comfortable and faster.

        I can only assume MP9s shipped to the States are slightly modified ?

        As to the operating principle of the APC9 I suspect it’s blowback operated (with an hydraulic buffer), considering the fixed barrel but don’t trust my lousy memory on that. My day at Milipol was quite long ! :-D

        I’ll go see BGM probably next week and I hope they have one APC9 on hand so that I can see it completely stripped.

  • SpudGun

    The shift away from SMGS to carbines and PDWs has certainly been a major trend in the last couple of decades.

    Aside from armor penetration (which has been hotly debated before), I can only speculate as to the popularity of the trend. I would imagine that it has something to do with economics and lethality.

    Economics in that personnel guarding a facility don’t require a separate pistol, SMG and rifle as the carbine and PDW will perform at CQB, short, medium and long ranges. Plus, you only need to budget for one caliber, one set of magazines, spare parts, cleaning kits, holsters, slings, etc.

    Lethality in that rifle rounds increase the chance of hydrostatic / hydraulic shock, not to mention the splintering effect inside the human body after penetration.

    On a global scale, 9mm is available just about everywhere, so I can see why SMGs remain popular.

    • John Doe

      Most special operators don’t even use H&K MP5s. Why use a 9mm submachine gun when you get a more powerful 5.56? While the 5.56 overpenetrates, it’s most versatile at longer ranges, which is really the selling point.

      • John Doe

        Failed double post.

    • John Doe

      Most special operators don’t even use H&K MP5s. Why use a 9mm submachine gun when you get a more powerful 5.56? While the 5.56 overpenetrates, it’s more versatile at longer ranges, which is really the selling point. A MP5 is really a M4A1′s equal when you clear that house and take out the Al Qaeda leader, but what happens when you get outside and need to take out alerted guards from 300 yards?

      • SpudGun

        I’m a little confused John Doe, I kind of listed those attributes in my post and agree with everything you say.

        However, the continued popularity of 9mm SMGs has to be seen on a global scale. 5.56mm, 5.7mm and 4.6mm ammunition might be easy to obtain for security forces in NATO countries, but they’re not available everywhere.

        I can’t think of a single populated country on Earth where 9mm isn’t available to police, military and other security forces. Even the Russians and Chinese produce sidearms chambered in 9mm.

        If you live in a country where the main military caliber is 7.62x39mm, you might want a less powerful round for police duties, similarly, the commonality of ammuntion between your sidearm and main weapon could also be attractive.

      • John Doe

        Sorry, my reading comprehension isn’t the best.

        SMGs are becoming less relevant, and PDWs and SBRs are the best replacement. SMGs simply don’t have a significant enough niche.

  • ChrisM

    The only thing wrong with all of the new SMG and PDW options is that I can’t own one!

  • Vitor

    At first I though it was a HK UMP.

  • Sid

    “The B&T APC9 is an innovative gun and has great potential in the market.” Guns & Ammo, Sep 1985.

    Seriously, what market are they trying to enter? A new submachinegun in 9mm? There are smaller sub-guns with bigger bullets and there are PDWs with armor-defeating bullets. There are plenty of subguns and machinepistols already on the market.

    I am not saying it is a bad weapon. I am not saying it is not well designed or that it may have reliability issues. I am saying that they just designed an 8 track player – cassette – record player in a DVD era.

  • Aurelien

    Well having handled the HK UMP9 and the APC9, the APC is more handy, a bit lighter and comes with a straight TMP/MP9 mag and not some crappy curved mag that wont fit MP5 mag pouches.

    There is still a huge market for SMGs, mainly in the LE market.

  • Mark

    Just another unlocked smg firing from closed bolt.
    What do B&T costumers (like HK) think about that? Not a very nice move.

  • Hrachya Hayrapetyan

    Looks like HK UMP + HK MP7 hybrid :)

  • bbmg

    I think the traditional 9mm smg with a few cosmetic and ergonomic changes is adequate, what needs to be looked at is ammunition.

    Why fiddle with new-fangled mini assault rifle rounds firing jacketed bullets like the 5.7×28 and 4.6×30 when a traditional 9mm round with a cheap easily produced synthetic (delrin, nylon etc.) sabot and solid steel slug will slice through armour just as effectively, without sacrificing the capability to fire full calibre rounds that can make wide quickly lethal holes.

    • http://smcfirearms.com Gregory Markle
      • bbmg

        The CBJ is a great idea, but why not retain the 9mm barrel and simply make a wider sabot? The larger base area should give the propelling gases more space to push on.

        This way, if body armour isn’t expected to be encountered, conventional 9mm rounds making wider more lethal wound channels can be used.

  • Lance

    Looks cute a cross between a MP-7 and MP-5 cute.

    • Nathaniel

      Holy run-on sentences, Batman!

  • Lance

    The Russian and Chinese made 9mm pistols but the Yarigan never seen much wide spread service many favoring the 9x18mm Makarov still and stick to it and the fact Russia is negotiating to making Beretta 92F 9mm pistol for Police use may put a end to Russian 9x19mm pistols. China Has a small amount of QZ-92 pistols in service in elite units but most Chinese army units have and prefer older Type-54/TT-33 pistols. Outside of the old Warsaw pact/USSR and PRC 9mm is most popular cartage in use on planet earth.

    Most Arab countries stuck to 9x19mm the Beretta 951 and Browning HP where most popular due to British influence before there independence in the late 40s. Today many of the same pistols are in service since pistols in Soviet backed countries took a back burner approach when AKMs became so popular with ground troops. Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan today use Glock 17 and Beretta 92FS style pistols with Egypt making there own copy the Helwan 920. The only country which uses a none 9mm pistol is Iran who still has large number of Shah era US made 1911 pistols in service.

  • Nathaniel

    Sub-machine guns are fundamentally stopgap weapons. I am unsure as to why they’ve held on this long.

    Clearly, post WWII, the West equipped with large, cumbersome battle rifles, and the SMG remained. But since .223 has hit the scene, it’s unclear why they persist at all. The Russians have very nearly abandoned SMGs entirely, since the adoption of the Kalashnikov rifle.

    PDWs, similarly, are often strictly better weapons than their SMG counterparts. Even rounds like 5.7mm, which have questionable ballistics, are very likely superior to any ball pistol round, which SMGs are essentially limited to entirely.

    • Tinkerer

      They’ve held this long because they work. With adequate ammo design -like the russian armor-piercing 7N31- they can defeat most soft body armor at CQB ranges- and with expanding rounds they’re damn effective manstoppers against unarmored foes. Of course, they lack the versatility of rifles for engaging targets at mid and long ranges -but there lies the question: do you need the extended range? For average military situations: yes, you need it. For specialized operations: not always. Police SWAT operations, room clearing, hostage rescue, naval operations, all benefit with weapons that are compact, not as noisy and flashy as short barreled rifles, with rounds that less chances of overpenetration and/or ricochets, etc. Simply put, it’s the right tool for the right job. The carbine is the Leatherman multitool of guns. The SMG is the precision Phillips screwdriver.

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  • http://Iran-Conoco-Affair.US Staff Iran-Conoco

    Can you identify the make and model of the submachine gun held by the man in the photograph at http://UnCoverUp.net?

  • Cahal Mcgirr

    The Irish Garda [police} armed response unit adopted the MP7 recently in response to the number of ‘crims’ using body armour. Previously the Uzi in 9mm was the main smg.