Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns. MKS suggests concerned consumers “wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil”
The sale of Chiappa firearms in the USA is about to plummet. They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.
Earlier this week gun bloggers and forum readers noticed that Chiappa Firearms, Italy, had issued a press release saying that they were going to embed RFID chips into their firearms.
RFID units are circuits that can wirelessly report whatever identifying information was programmed into them. They are embedded everywhere, in consumer electronics, credit cards, trees, animals, humans and even some very dubious prototype electronic firearms.
Generally they as passive devices (without an internal power source) and are powered by the radio waves emitted by the RFID reader (much like how a crystal radio set need no battery). Because they are low powered, their range is limited, Chiappa claim that the reader can't be more than a few inches from the gun to read it.
Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying a certain brand of RFID chip from as far away as the 29th floor of the hotel.
Potentially a high powered reader could be developed to detect if anyone passing by was carrying a concealed Chiappa firearm, even though they would not be able to read the serial number. Most gun owners are probably a lot less concerned about people reading the serial number, as they are about people covertly identifying that they are carrying. This will worry many consumers.
Personally, if I bought a Chiappa, the first thing I would be is remove the grip and use my pocket knife to pry out the RFID chip.
If you were MKS Distributing, the importer of Chiappa Firearms in the United States, how would you handle RFID-gate? I would immediately talk to Chiappa Firearms in Italy and tell them that US consumers do NOT want RFID chips in their guns. Instead, MKS Distributing issued a press release that mocked gun bloggers and concerned consumers. In the condescending press release (reproduced below) they reference CIA satellites, Mel Gibson and suggests people who are concerned about RFID should "wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil".
MKS Distributing press release ...
RFID "Chip" in Chiappa Firearms-what's up with that?
MKS Distributing, Dayton OH, July, 2011-Distributor for Chiappa Firearms
Recently there has been some blogger activity (credibility always guaranteed) concerning Chiappa Firearms putting a RFID (radio frequency identification) in Chiappa Firearms. Yes, but Chiappa will not be using the RFID system for at least a year.
RUMOR: (known as blogosphere food): The erroneous information about some sort of "chip" was put out by a blogger who translated Chiappa (Italian) technical information incorrectly. The incorrect translation and his interpretation came out as some sort of a GPS type tracking "chip" -which RFID isn't as it cannot transmit anything-it has NO power source (unlike cell phones).
THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.
Basically Chiappa RFID (again it is radio frequency identification) assists the manufacturing process, inventory control and shipping. The type of information on the RFID ties in the firearm and proof house verification; the latter is required by the Italian Government for all firearms made in Italy. Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers.
BOTTOM LINE: The Chiappa PASSIVE RFID can be read ONLY when passed within (2-3 inches) of an active (and powered) reader that is dialed in for the particular long antenna radio frequency of the RFID-this is not random. And it will NOT go into operation for a year or more.
SUMMARIZING: RFIDs have NO power source or GPS locator. Rest assured they are NOT transmitting your identification and location information to a Chiappa Firearm tasked CIA satellite.
RFID Removal: For those still concerned you can simply remove the grip and remove the hot glued RFID from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear. Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson's 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that's a plan too!
This is one epic fail. Goodbye Chiappa, its game over on this side of the Atlantic.
UPDATE: My friend and fellow blogger Albert Rasch has also blogged about the above press release. He writes ...
Having no small experience now with RFID, let me tell you that they can be read by the appropriate reader at 30 meters. Furthermore no RFID chip reader that is being used for logistical control will have its range limited to 3 inches. A carton, or even pallets of materials will need a reader set to several feet. " Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers. " 3 inches eh? How is it going to read a pallet of material at 3 inches? I can only assume that MKS Distributors thinks most people are idiots, and incapable of figuring things out on their own.
Man this sucks. Not the RFID thing, it’s that fact that people in this country have become so paranoid that they are going to let something trivial like this destroy a companies business in this country. Really people Chiappa is an outstanding brand and they make quality firearms. As an avid hunter, shooter, firearm owner and card carrying NRA member it really pisses me off that people get so uppity about a company in ITALY putting RFID chips in their guns because its some sort of supposed anti-gun conspiracy for this country! You think these people care about our gun laws? Their a business making a sound business decision. I rest assured that Chiappa isn’t in on some global conspiracy to deprive us of our guns. If it really bothers you so much, like they said, just pry the chip out of the gun when you get it. Or don’t buy one. But please don’t speak on behalf of people that might not share your opinion. Some of us might still want a Chiappa firearm, so don’t ruin it for us.
The manufacturers of this gun don’t realize how RFID works. The fact that a RFID chip is “passive” means nothing in terms of readability. All that means is that it does not have an internal power source and has been DESIGNED to be read at short ranges. The short range issue still matters regardless, as handheld RFID readers exist, stores are putting readers in their door way arches, and even smart phones can be adapted for short range read. Regardless, a “passive” chip does not mean that it can’t be read at long ranges. Even if the info on the chip (and there is such a thing as chipless RFID) is not a serial number, it would still likely contain data that would identify it as a firearm, blowing concealed carry.
Long run, this may also be part of an attempt for high tech trigger locks. The guns will have a matching tech device in a glove the person wears, and if someone tries to pull the trigger on the gun who is not wearing the glove, the gun would not work. If some police officers feel safer with that, so their gun can’t be wrestled away, that is fine. For me, sounds like one more thing that can break or not work when I need to use my weapon for self defense. That does not sound like the case here, the RFID chip is not linked to the gun operating, but gun owners need to understand the ins and outs of RFID.
Late to this party but wanted to add my two cents.
I bought their 1892 lever action pistol / mares leg. problems with extraction and feeding from the start. Irratic at best. There is no phone number for Chiappa, and no email address…just the “contact form” on their website which evidently goes directly into their “delete” file.
Been two weeks and no response as to how to resolve the defects. Three days since my second contact form. still nada.
These people have zero concern for the customer. Buying a gun from them means you’re on your own. So much for customer ser4vice, integrity, or simple courtesy.
None of my guns have this feature, none of my new guns will have it either.
@Don: Wow, how long ago did you contact them? Have you tried to email them again? You shouldn’t have to settle for a defective product.
I gave up,they never did contact me,im stuck with a junk gun,it would have been nice if they atleast showed enough respect to contact me over the issue.
@Don: I wasn’t lecturing you about grammar. I was just telling you that because the use of the term “clip” is frowned upon by many people. And yes, I understand that. I hope they will fix the defective parts for you. I’m just saying that you probably shouldn’t get your hopes up for the parts to be entirely replaced with the upgraded parts. They might just replace them with non-defective older model parts. I’d also be really surprised if they actually gave you an extra magazine, and an extended warranty, too.
I dont need a lesson on grammer brian and i dont want anything for free,i want a gun that i paid hard earned money for to work.and when there is a defect with your product it should recalled and fixed for free,a sleeze bag company like chiappa puts the burden on the customer to pay for shipping and the upgrade to a trigger system thats defective and cheaply made.i will not buy anything else from this company…………..
@Don: First of all, I’m sorry, but it’s a magazine, not a “clip”. Second, their upgrade to their 1911 and your timing in buying one does not really obligate them to upgrade yours, or anyone else’s, for free. If you are having issues with it, though, they may be able to fix it for you. Just don’t expect them to give you an extra magazine, and whatnot.
The chip is worth more than their guns………..
I bought the 1911 22 ,it came with one clip a cheesy one year warranty ,i bought the gun new at gander mountain,the trigger has been a problem from day one,it has feed problems,then to ad insult to injury a month after i bought this gun chiappa upgraded the new 1911s with a new trigger and added a extra clip and extended the warranty to life,i contacted them and mks supply many times via email about how i felt ripped off,this should be a free upgrade to all customers that have bought these guns or atleast the ones that are still within the one year warranty,they have not answered any of my emails,their company is a rip off and mks supply is the same.
It is the chip itself that bothers me. Obviously one can remove it. The problem is that having any device like this is just begging for some anti to write legislation REQUIRING the chips to be embedded. Then in a few years requiring that additional information be included on the chip…then a little bit more…and more until it contains information that clearly violates my privacy. Anti’s would love this stuff to be required for all gun manufacturers.
I emailed Charles Brown at MKS and got this reply:
“I agree we should have never put the tin foil thing in there- we wanted to interject some humor and it turn out looking like a jackass uncaring comment- my family has been in the firearms business since 1953 and I would never intentionally convey the feelings that the tin foil thing looked like-and sounded like – we will continue to support all shooting sports and hopefully our actions will be louder than our words! I usually sleep on a press release and have several people review it prior to release – unfortunately we were under pressure to get this out quickly. -humbly remain. C Brown Jackass of the week!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry”
I say, fair enough! At least he admits to the jackassedness.
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That frame already has a tracking device. It’s called a serial number. There is no need to apply an RFID chip — unless Chiappa’s employees can’t read.
last time i checked there was nothing wrong with barcodes to track logistics. would probably be alot cheaper too.
“A Paranoid is someone who knows all the facts.”
Roger Simon
PT – the press release contradicts that claim.
From the Press Release: “THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.”
tomaso, I don’t need to. I’ve got actual research in hand regarding the security issues of RFID enabled devices from when I was working in the credit card processing industry and was working on these very issues.
Pop a Xanax? Why don’t you pop yourself, Anon?
I’m pretty sure that “Anon” is the guy who wrote this idiotic press release that everyone is calling for to be FIRED, and rightly so.
Also, Andrew nailed it.
@ Tomaso: I think I speak for all the rational commentator’s here who are in no way officially associated with TFB when I say “SEE YA! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! GET LOST!”
I don’t know if you read these steve but I wanted to say thanks for posting this. The RFID doesn’t really bother me, though I don’t like it. But the PR was stupid. I was interested in a rhino simply as a novelty since revolvers really don’t have a place anymore as defensive firearms against two legged pests, but unless they backtrack real fast and apologize for the rude comments of their importer then I doubt I’ll get one. There are plenty of novelty firearms to choose from.
Please keep us updated on any further developments.
I was considering the Chiappa Rhino for my fiance in .357, shooting .38 special, to reduce felt recoil. Others in the running are Taurus 66, S&W Model 60. This post just got the rhino crossed off the list. Maybe we’ll reconsider if they abandon this RFID nonsense.
I contacted MKS to express my displeasure in the press release. Charles Brown responded with the following. I think it’s fair to forgive MKS/Chiappa.
Thomas,
I appreciate your response to the barcode chip Release that was sent out last week, I am handling each one of the few responses we received individually, I feel if you took the time to contact me and express yourself I should extend the courtesy of responding to you.
I agree 100% with your observation that the “tin foil” comment sounded and read like we were uncaring pompous asses who did not care about the customers we market to, I like to try to put some humor in all of my releases and the shooting press seems to find it a nice departure from the mundane who-what-where-when contained in most the releases they get, however the intent of the “humor” came thru in a totally different “feel”-(yes we forgot the whole internet thing about how you can’t read inflection or feelings)
I also try to let all of our releases “sleep” over night and come back in the next day with fresh eyes and take a look at it …unfortunately I did not with this one.
My family has been in the firearms business since 1953 and I have owned MKS for the last 28 years, always supporting the firearms industry and supporting the preservation of our constitutional rights and being on the watch for erosion of such.
MKS was one of the charter members of the Heritage fund that has pledged 1% of all of our sales to go toward fighting for our firearms rights, I am an NRA life member and support with cash and donations, thru MKS numerous events, friends of NRA, first shots programs, NSSF, US Sportsman’s alliance..in the 90’s we were one of the first to send donations of cash to the organizations in California fighting for our firearms rights. ect.
I am hoping that our ACTIONS of the past and future will show through and one comment that was supposed to produce a chuckle (unfortunately made us look like Jackasses) won’t forever hurt the way we are viewed. I guess I should have just re-stated that the glued in easy to find Barcode chip can be easily removed and left it at that.
Humbly and respectfully yours
Charles Brown
@ Tomaso,
Then quite whining about it do the research and answer the questions here for everyone to see. Steve relied on facts. You don’t like those facts so you want to call the material he relied on into question.
So attack the source material from defcon point by point, not Steve.
Or show yourself for what you really are by continuing to whine and troll the comments.
I’ll get one of the 50DS models before they embed the RFID chips in them because I’ve always wanted a Mateba Model 6 Unica. Hell, even if I have to wait until after they do it, I know how to EM pulse it to deactivate it. After that though, MKS can go suck buttercups due to their “awesome” customer relations. /sarcasm
I dealt with inventory control on a daily basis with one of my businesses I owned. Those RFID chips can be read from several feet away, up to 100 yards, depending on the strength of the transceiver you’re using. This is why WalMart, Target, etc. has the sensors located at all their entrance/exits for loss prevention.
While standard RFID will not pinpoint location like a GPS module will, it still can relay a hell of a lot of information for whatever is encoded into the RFID. Case in point, there has been at least one family that I know of that has their medical history embedded in them in a RFID tag like they use on pets, and it’s been federally approved for use in humans.
Not being a tin-foil supporter here, just stating the facts. RFID is useful for the right reasons, but making fun of customer concerns is no way to build a loyal base of buyers.
@SPQR…really…go make a RFID reader and get back to me. …serriously go make one…drive around town and report back on all the info you get.
I’ve received a response from Mrs. Cinzia Pinzoni out of CHIAPPA… they’re well aware of the blunder and are trying to put a patch on it. BTW, she told me to spread the word: THE RFID CHIP IS NOT MEANT FOR THE U.S. MARKET, but only for the ITALIAN market, to help a small company such as CHIAPPA to ease the manufacturing procedures and cut through the governmental red tape imposed for the authorization to the distribution of firearms on our civilian market. An Italian press release has been more or less accidentally translated into English and spread in the U.S.
Just microwave the part for a couple of seconds. Metal’s not that big of a problem, its the surface area. A metal block in a microwave for a few seconds is fine, but a fork will spark like a thunderstorm. Still bad move, but fixable.
What if RFID chips becomes an industry standard and/or government makes them mandatory? And what if, some day, the government decides to create a network of RFID chip readers in public places connected to some centralized database?
Would any gun owner like his+gun movements tracked and recorded?
Dont call people “paranoied” or “tin foilers” just because your mind cannot go beyond the superficial analysis of things.
Personally i think people should be more paranoied since the West is becoming more and more like the “Brave New World” that Aldous Huxley described…
There is of course a legitimate concern among firearms owners regarding the actual capabilities and intent of the RFID chip on a firearm.
We’ve seen legislation in this country that attempts to mandate electronic controls on firearms (despite the nonexistance of any practical devices). And we’ve seen attempts to mandate things like microstamping.
These historical facts mean that we have a legitimate concern about the real RFID that may show up on firearms here.
tomaso, you keep claiming that Steve is passing on misinformation. But the fact is, he is not. The press release contains misinformation and ridicule on MKS’ part. That’s what Steve is correctly reporting.
Not to be flippant, but… big hairy deal.
with the amount of time a gun-fanciers spend customizing, repairing and fine tuning their toys, what’s a little knife-fu? I’ll take RFID’ing over outsourcing anyday as a cost cutting measure. (Belize… It’s the Italy of the lower hemisphere)
As to the wits at MKS, well, they could stand to cut a few costs too.
mks arrogant? try ignorant. all they have succeeded in doing is blackballing their firearms. but at the same time wouldnt scanning for a legally owned chipped firearm carried by a ccdw holder be a violation of privacy. and wouldnt it be an unlawful search as well? unless it was being done at a place authorized to conduct such searches? sounds to me like a a baited debate in the end. the simple thing to do would be too attach the rfid chip to the grip exterior instead of hiding it under the grip. then it would make the paranoia a moot point just peel the chip off like the rfid chip on a dvd or expose it to a stereo magnet.
I dont care about the tag. But insult my intelligence for having a valid concern over tracking……… All it would have taken is a simple clarification that it was for inventory purposes only, but no, they insult the customers who have a valid concern. It is a valid concern for someone like me who doesn’t know much about these things and might be concerned with computer chips/tags in a gun. A simple professional response would have clarified it enough that I would have been fine with it.
Personally I do find this a bit TOO much of paranoia from you guys. So what if “somebody” can detect your chip? The information most of those things carry is a serial number and that’s it, alone it’s useless. They would need to do multiple cross checks just to know what, where, when and who bought something. Yes it’s a way to track you, but there are much easier and practical ways to do the same, specially if they know who you are beforehand, you know so they can actually have a motive to track you.
It’s much more dangerous to post on this blog, use your cellphone, use your credit card, pay bills online, drive your car, go outside, etc…
The concern that I have about any suggestion of removing the RFID chip is that it could constitute a violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and/or state law. If the serial number is contained in the chip, could removal of the chip be considered defacement or removal of the serial number, even if it remains visible elsewhere on the firearm?
Just as a second thought, if MKS is going to suggest that people go see Conspiracy Theory, they might have picked a better movie suggestion to make their point , just saying.
Dearest people of this FOrum,
I am worried to see how you’re getting yourself caught in the hype of the “Chiappa RFID Chip”. If you scroll the three pages of comments to this entry, you’ll find at least one response from me on the subject; I’ve posted another one, but it’s either awaiting moderation or got deleted for not being in-line with the increasingly worried (I don’t want to utter the word “paranoid) general thought concerning this matter.
I am a close friend of the CHIAPPA people and in contact with Mrs. Cinzia Pinzoni. My insight allows thus me to clarify a few things:
•1 – The KIMAR Group (that comprises the CHIAPPA trademark) is a small family business; they have decided to implement the RFID chip technology to save on paperworks and ease the trailing of history of every single firearm that is sold in case one should get back for repairs.
•2 – The CHIAPPA RFID Chip is passive, not active. Not only it is pre-written with the data concerning the manufacture of the weapon, the lot number and the date of shipment to the distributor, but it can not be re-written, and it can not absolutely, POSITIVELY register ANYTHING, not any detail regarding the usage of the gun, nor about its movements, nor about the ownership. And it absolutely can NOT interfere (i.e. block) the gun, like other solutions proposed by ARMATIX.
•3 – The CHIAPPA RFID Chip can only be read by passing a special scanner very close to it (i.e. on the box containing the gun). It can not be detected from the distance because it is not powered, and doesn’t emits a wide, broad signal like other RFIDs. Basically this has been done so that the distributor (MKS Supply) can keep trace of what they’re shipping/receiving and be sure that a box doesn’t contains the wrong item, especially if they’re re-sending to the owner a sample that has been sent in for repair or replacement. The distance between the scanner and the Chip required for this last one to be readable is so short that it is basically the same that is needed by a Metal Detector to determine if s/o is in fact carrying a metal object: you basically have to pass through it or have it manually passed on your person. It can not absolutely, positively in any way help detecting a person carrying a gun from the distance.
•4 – Despite the fact that CHIAPPA issued a press release to U.S. gunwriters regarding the introduction of the RFID Chip in their firearms, the technology will not be available on the U.S. market in the near future (at least not all throughout Y2011), so you people can purchase your CHIAPPA firearms safely for the time being. It will be first introduced in the CHIAPPA products available in Italy, and if it is successful, it will be exported. But there are no signs of this possibility; the company itself has been sumberged with protests and they might rethink their position. The press release was only issued to let gunwriters know how CHIAPPA is “pioneering in this kind of technology despite being a small enterprise”, and has been sent to all gunwriters in CHIAPPA’s mailing list, including myself (and I write IN ITALY, not in the U.S.).
•5 – The RFID Chip is not permanently embedded, but hot-glued to the frame of the weapon, and can easily be accessed through field-stripping and removed with the tip of a knife without any kind of damage to the functionality of the firearm. The company might even think to add a label indicating the presence of the RFID Chip on the boxes, along with instructions for its removal, although I’d suggest the owner of the firearm to keep the RFID Chip somewhere around even if he/she removes it from the weapon, so that in case of a return to the company (i.e. for repair), he/she might add the chip to the parcel to help the company and the distributors to process their requests faster.
•6 – There have been rumors about “CHIAPPA being one of the companies that asked, and obtained, a ban on import of ‘Black Rifles’ in Italy”. This is completely false. There is no such ban effective in Italy. The only reason why AMERICAN-MADE “Black Rifles” are now more rare on the Italian civilian market is that the Bush administration has imposed the issuance of a DSP-83 “End-User Certificate” by the Department of State for the export of every single firearm, even civilian-grade, based upon a military firearm (this also applies to military-grade firearm accessories, including some furniture, and several optics, such as mil-dots and holosights). This has led to a contraction for US-EXPORTED “Black Rifles” in Italy as it is not feasible any longer for importers in this Country to keep stocks, since every single piece that enters the Country must be “already sold”. However, “Black Rifles” are still enjoying a high degree of popularity in Italy; we’re simply buying from Germany and China, and starting making our own.
Please support CHIAPPA. They’re pretty good people, and not the anti-gun (or anti-gun-bending) people you think they are just because they decided to go to a different product tracking technology and their distributor in the US made a PR blunder. If you disagree with their policy regarding the RFID Chip, I suggest you to let them know politely and constructively. As stated before, they are pretty good people, and well opened to customer feedback.
Regards,
PIERANGELO TENDAS
Italy
your comment:”Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying a certain brand of RFID chip from as far away as the 29th floor of the hotel.”
Misleading info…..what was the equipment?…did they already know the RFID was in his pocket….how long did it take for them to make the equipment?….this is the kind of implanted info that dos nothing but raise the hype..its inclusion in the report lacked credible informantion…more or less hear say… i say shoot the messenger when said messenger rewrites the message to his own agenda….worse part is you don’t get how you crossed the line…you went from reporting the information to adding stuff thats Highly unlikely to ridiculese…”FIREARMS NOT POLITICS” yea right..weres your agenda?
“POLITICS
olitics (from Greek πολιτικός, “of, for, or relating to citizens”), politics can be observed in other group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions. It consists of “social relations involving authority or power”[1] and refers to the regulation of public affairs within a political unit,[2] and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.[3]
Just incase you missed my jist #3
Thanks, Steve for the article. I am in total accord with your sentiment. Having read all the comments, I am saddened, but not surprised, by those who parrot the mantra that the reaction to the RFID chip is typical “paranoia,” to be expected of the NRA and gun-owners alike. In support of their open contempt, some have suggested that a similarly unfounded fear was expressed when “UPC” codes first appeared some decades ago. To this, has been added the perverse argument that compact discs, “toner” cartridges, credit cards, and a myriad of other products long have used similar devices without the world having come to an end.
To those smug commenters who have suggested that I and others are paranoid, I ask, what is it about the right of the people to keep and bear arm “shall not be infringed,” that you don’t understand? Last time I read the Bill of Rights, there was no similar protection for those who purchase a bag of pretzels in a bag marked with a UPC, nor for purchasers of a compact disc, nor for purchasers of a bottle of toner. The latters’ rights must be found elsewhere than in the Second Amendment.
That right to keep and bear arms is for the benefit of the people who keep and bear arms, and not for the Government. The RFID chip is inconsistent with the concept of concealed carry. If the presence of a handgun may be detected, it is, by definition, not concealed. It may be an invasion of my privacy if the Government, without a warrant or reasonable cause, scans my person and determines that I am a Moody Blues fan. It will be an outrage and a violation of the Second and Fourth Amendments if that same Government, without a warrant or reasonable cause, scans my person and determines that I am carrying a concealed handgun.
I commend the prescience of those who expressed concern that, in time, the act of removal of the RFID chip itself may be made unlawful and the additional concern that removing the RFID chip may eventually lead to the voiding of the manufacturer’s warranty. The greater concern, however, is that the tacit acceptance of the RFID chip on a firearm is an agreement with the devil, and that it is yet another step in the direction of the mandatory registration of firearms generally. Withstand beginnings; who knows where they shall end.
Recognize the RFID chip for what it is. Shun those who apologize for it. It has no legitimate purpose once the handgun lawfully has been transferred to its owner. It’s only purpose under such circumstances is to track those handguns to which it is affixed. It is nothing short of complicity to the universal registration of all handguns. Let us not forget that the core reason for the Second Amendment is to prevent tyranny by Government, and not to prevent common street crime or to enable hunting or sport shooting. If the Second Amendment is to remain viable, we must resist all efforts that may facilitate or enable the Government to know the whereabouts of its citizens who lawfully choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
H&K firearms are chipped IIRC.
Did you guys/girls see the cop that threaten to kill a lawful citizen with a conceal permit because he was conceal carry?
Really bad cop.
http://youtu.be/kassP7zI0qc
hmmm…interesting how Europeans criticize skeptics of such technology, due to its implication of infringing a constitutional right, by attempting to discredit them as “paranoid” and “tin foil hat” types.
Here’s a refute to the company’s comments:
Attempting to sell a product to the largest private arms consumer in the world, and then having the arrogance to ridicule that country’s costumers, is a sure ticket way to lose sales of a product in a largely corporatist economy controlled mostly by the military-industrial complex…with competitive American firearms companies (i.e. Colt Defense) among its pillars. Good luck now. I commend your “marketing” strategy LMAO!!!
*this comment was not meant to be political, it was a humorous backlash against the disingenuous public relations attempt by Chiappa firearms…
Checking to see if i jumped to conclusions about this blogs merit…steve your responce just shows you don’t mind feeding the crazy frenzy. your not the only one to report this matter…and i haven’t read the others so i don’t know their take…but you certainly didn’t add any intelligence to the reporting did you….nope you fed the fear…the style and content of your reporting of this matter falls into the political style thats so common from sources like FOX….you misinformed your readers and add fears that were out of context….this is very much unlike the “open for debate” style that iv seen from your reviews….if this is how you and it seems alot of your readers feel , i wouldn’t want your type as customers if i made weapons…histerical anti government types need not reply…instead of taking the high road and addressing Chiappa about your dislike of said electronic info tag…and helping your readers understand the right way to react to like issues you all acted like toddlers “ill never buy from them”…realy if you owned a company would you want customers that feared “what the government might find out”…………. id bet not.
I have to take my own advise…i wont stop reading your blog just because you were an idiot once (that i know of…and I’m guilty of idiocy myself at times)…your reviews by yourself and others are very good…i just have to lower my expectations when it come to some topics
tomaso, What did I report:
“They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.”
“Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. “
“Personally, if I bought a Chiappa, the first thing I would be is remove the grip and use my pocket knife to pry out the RFID chip.”
So did I report anything untrue? Not one thing. I only reported facts. The most damning thing in my blog post is the awful PR release, which is filled with untruths and condescending, offensive humor.
Don’t shoot (me) the messenger.
You just need one of these to go with it.
http://hackaday.com/2009/12/22/terminate-rfid-tags/
The perfect tool for viewers of this blog. That or, you know, remove the grip and microwave it for 3 seconds.
“Mat on 30 Jul 2011 at 1:40 am link comment
Person posting e-mail addreses of people should be permamently banned from the blog an the post removed.”
Mat, that was me. And no, you’re extremely WRONG. Learn more about RFID and what is possible with these things before you call me a TFH or say that we’re all paranoid. Steve is being very kind about leaving it up.
Apparently, the folks at MKS are unfamiliar with the name, Jim Zumbo.
Is it really so far out there to think that the Goverment would try to track our guns, when the FBI can already, LEGALLY, track our cars without a warrant? Some people just dismiss this RFID thing as a conspiracy theory, but look at they facts. I personally do not want to give anyone (criminal, government, or some tech nerd) the ability to find out how many/ what type of guns or anything else are in my possession.
Hey guys, serious question: If the RFID chip was ‘just for inventory control’, why did Chiappa go through the trouble and expense of machining a pocket into the gripframe for a permanent, internal chip? Why was the chip intended to become a permanent and hidden part of the gun?
Gee, anon, just like how the Obama admin would never deliberately ship firearms to Mexican drug cartels, violating federal and international gun-trafficking laws in the process, to help push passage of new gun regs here at home?
Can you TRY to make yourself look worse? Maybe jump up and down and call us doodie-heads?
Do you see what you’ve done, Steve? Enjoy having only readers like twylightsync goto your blog from now on.
ELITE HACKER reporting in, let me round up my posse of super elite hacker criminalZ and we’ll grab our scannerZ and go around neighborhoods so I can exclusively rob houses where the occupants are armed…
Dearest people (Steve included),
First of all, the purpose of the RFID Chip proposed by Chiappa is not “detection”, and it can not in fact be “detected” unless the weapon is scanned from VERY CLOSE (that is, inside the box… but then, you just might as well pass through a Metal Detector and they’ll find out you’re armed).
Second, CHIAPPA is a small business, and the reason why they’re implementing RFID technology is to save money on paperworks and traking of every single weapon they make.
Third, they are now very well aware of the mistake. I think they’ll go reverse on it.
Fourth, the press release was sent to ALL GUNWRITERS IN CHIAPPA AND MKS LISTS, including myself (I work for an ITALIAN gun magazine). They wanted to let people know worldwide.
Fifth, there has never been a “lobby of gunmakers in Italy asking for a ban on import of ‘Black Rifles’ in the Country”. There is no such a ban in effect. The only reason why the AMERICAN-manufactured “Black rifles” are hard to get for Italian customers is that the Bush administration decided to impose the issue of a DSP-83 “End-User Certificate” for every single weapon exported from the United States that is based on an U.S. Military-issue weapon, even if it is a purely civilian variant. This also applies to some tactical accessories, including reflex, holographic and mil-dot sights, and some AR-15 apparel. The consequence is that basically every piece that comes to Italy has to be “already sold”, with a final user already clearly indicated in the paper. And the end user can not re-sell what he buys.
But again, this is something that the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT asked, and imposed. Basically the Italian customers stopped buying US-made “Black Rifles” and are now buying models made in Germany, China, and some of our own (yes, one or two companies are starting to make ARs in Italy).
Jay,
in California, police cars are mounted with a few cameras, and do indeed scan passing cars automatically.
I do department store security, and have noticed police cars driving around my parking lots much more now. they are looking for easy stolen cars. So, the state seems to disagree with you.
“Because that is all it is, a serial number. Like a UPC label.”
serial numbers are unique, upcs are not. wrong.
“RFIDs are the thing that beeps when you leave a store.”
Lol. No, completley different thing.
Many people here are gun experts and are WAAAY off on this tech.
What WILL happen, is hacker/thieves will learn what Chiappa (and other gun makers) code types are, then hook up a high powered scanner to their car battery, then drive around neighborhoods literally scanning houses with a hand held antennae hooked up to a laptop, and see what kinds of goodies you have to seeif you would make a good burglary target. We already are seeing people d rive around looking for wifi networks to monitor for online purchases, and this is similar. We are already seeing people carry handheld RFId scanners and picking up info from your wallet/purse from banks stupid enough to think criminals are dumb. I would NEVER buy this brands product now.
Thier attitude is outrageous anyway. Sorry, your products are not that desirable and your not the only game in town. Show some class. The concern was valid.
Put it this way-You can buy RFID experimenters kits online if your a techie/hacker type. If you are my neighbor and own this weapon, I WILL KNOW IT. AND WHERE IT IS IN YOUR HOUSE BY SIGNAL STRENGTH.
Feel safe? well, you could wrap it in thick foil, like your assh0le manufacturer recommends when mocking you in press releases lol.
I find it quite ironic that someone named “ANON” is mocking those with privacy concerns.
Chiappa may well be only putting inventory control information on the RFID chip. However, how can we be certain that is all they WILL put on it. If the serial number is on it, it would be fairly easy to include a code that identifies the RFID as on a handgun. Lets see, 7 more letters? I would guess that any really useful inventory control numbers are going to run at least 6 digits. Heck, look at the serial numbers on your Microsoft products.
PUtting the chip under the grip panels makes it “Look” like they might have originally intended to hide it. why not just put a sticker version on the grip?
I was interested in shooting one, though I have heard at least some of their older products were very roughly made. The .45-70 lever action sounds interesting.
Using humor to disarm anger is a legitimate tactic. Mocking the people who have doubts about something? good way to piss them off more.
@Walter
As for license plate scanners.
Police do not have the right to go and run (search) plates of vehicles because they feel like it. They have to witness a crime or have a reasonable articulate suspicion or probable cause of a crime that has or is going to be committed. Just like stopping you to ask for your ID as you walk down the street and running it through the system. You have a human right to privacy which is recognized in the bill of rights.
When you have a license plate reader that scans every passing car, every scan is considered a search, this requires a warrant if the person hasn’t committed a crime. So every scan is a human rights violation, unconstitutional act and a disregard to their oath.
With technology expanding it allows ease of violating large amounts of peoples rights. One has to be more vigilant of potential misuse.
“Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson’s 1997 film”
Sounds like Chiappa just ‘DixieChicked’ themselves.
welll that,s one 357 off my list and by that same token if that,s the addatude rino has about it,s coustomer,s thay can get bent \\ maby thay say rfid tag,s are diffaclt to track from distence but i can tell you right now the one,s in your pasport shure as hell are not canadien border cop,s knew my name at 25 feet away by just looking at thire dammm comp screen so if that,s possable why would i want a pistol that scream,s im on the small of his back
To all the infuriated gun owners claiming their “intelligence” was insulted by Chiappa’s memo I just have this to say…
Get down from that gilded ivory tower and pop a xanax.
I personally feel that their response to this invented outrage was totally appropriate, witty and 100% non-offensive. Where were all you tin hatters when they started putting RFID’s in your passports, consumer electronic goods, pets and credit cards? I don’t know about the rest of you but I’d be significantly more concerned about unscrupulous individuals knowing exactly how many inhabitants live in my home and how many big ticket electronic items are stashed within as opposed to them knowing I have an obscure European revolver. And this is all assuming your run-of-the-mill petty crook is going to invest that much capital into an RFID scanner just so they can inventory your house before they rob you. Their current business model of knocking over unsecured houses in affluent neighborhoods seems to be much more cost efficient.
The entire premise that the OBAMMANATION GUBMINT and his FEMA cronies are planning a massive NWO plot to disarm the American gun owners one at a time using RFID’s to identify and earmark us for later persecution is so ridiculous it doesn’t even exist within the realm of reality, this technology is EXTREMELY easy to defeat even if you physically cannot remove the chip from the gun.
All I’m seeing from the people who actually got offended for being treated like children after they jumped to conclusions like one is a bunch of uneducated foreigner hate along with that same old tired ‘murrica strong rhetoric.
@tincan
That’s EXACTLY why people are worried about this – because the person ID-ing you would likely be a cop. While almost every state allows concealed carry, there are many areas where the police are extremely hostile towards anyone who has a CHL (the cops think only they should have guns). Hence why people are nervous about the possibility (even if it’s slim) of a cop being able to use a device to say “Hey, that guy walking down the street has a concealed gun on him – lets go rough him up”.
Did you not see what happened in Canton, OH recently regarding police coming across a guy with a CHL?
the more i think of this the more it pisses me off……well Steve i guess Chiappa can thank a large portion of thier lost sales to the Firearm Blog….miss information and all…you should be real proud of this one….and to think no politics.
Rhino was/is a great improvment on the revolver…sure it needs refinment..but heck throw them under the bus because of bad PR and a devise to improve shipping logistics….but wait quot info about how some dudes from a convention pinged info from 2 floors up…..yea great propaganda thier.. well im removing the firearms blog from my favorites bar…im sure i wont be missed…better yet i wont miss shit like this.
tomaso, firstly, I am not the only one to report this.
Secondly, if I don’t report a valid safety concern, and I believe it is,how much credibility would I have? And also how much self-respect would I have? None.
No firearms have yet been chipped. They can easily, as some commenters said, just add a RFID token to the packaging and not the actual gun, and the problem would be solved. I hope they do this.
I think I’ll stay with buying Ruger and Marlin firearms.
RFID chips are ways of the feds and companies to keep track of you.
If one put the gun in water, would that short out the RFID chip?