Chiappa adding RFID Chips to their guns. MKS suggests concerned consumers “wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil”

rfid_2-tfb

The sale of Chiappa firearms in the USA is about to plummet. They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.

Earlier this week gun bloggers and forum readers noticed that Chiappa Firearms, Italy, had issued a press release saying that they were going to embed RFID chips into their firearms.

Proposed RFID “chip” embedded in Chiappa revolver frame.

RFID units are circuits that can wirelessly report whatever identifying information was programmed into them. They are embedded everywhere, in consumer electronics, credit cards, trees, animals, humans and even some very dubious prototype electronic firearms.

Generally they as passive devices (without an internal power source) and are powered by the radio waves emitted by the RFID reader (much like how a crystal radio set need no battery). Because they are low powered, their range is limited, Chiappa claim that the reader can’t be more than a few inches from the gun to read it.

Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying a certain brand of RFID chip from as far away as the 29th floor of the hotel.

Potentially a high powered reader could be developed to detect if anyone passing by was carrying a concealed Chiappa firearm, even though they would not be able to read the serial number. Most gun owners are probably a lot less concerned about people reading the serial number, as they are about people covertly identifying that they are carrying. This will worry many consumers.

Personally, if I bought a Chiappa, the first thing I would be is remove the grip and use my pocket knife to pry out the RFID chip.

Chiappa Firearms Kodiak .45-70

If you were MKS Distributing, the importer of Chiappa Firearms in the United States, how would you handle RFID-gate? I would immediately talk to Chiappa Firearms in Italy and tell them that US consumers do NOT want RFID chips in their guns. Instead, MKS Distributing issued a press release that mocked gun bloggers and concerned consumers. In the condescending press release (reproduced below) they reference CIA satellites, Mel Gibson and suggests people who are concerned about RFID should “wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil”.

MKS Distributing press release …

RFID “Chip” in Chiappa Firearms-what’s up with that?

MKS Distributing, Dayton OH, July, 2011-Distributor for Chiappa Firearms

Recently there has been some blogger activity (credibility always guaranteed) concerning Chiappa Firearms putting a RFID (radio frequency identification) in Chiappa Firearms. Yes, but Chiappa will not be using the RFID system for at least a year.

RUMOR: (known as blogosphere food): The erroneous information about some sort of “chip” was put out by a blogger who translated Chiappa (Italian) technical information incorrectly. The incorrect translation and his interpretation came out as some sort of a GPS type tracking “chip” -which RFID isn’t as it cannot transmit anything-it has NO power source (unlike cell phones).

THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.

Basically Chiappa RFID (again it is radio frequency identification) assists the manufacturing process, inventory control and shipping. The type of information on the RFID ties in the firearm and proof house verification; the latter is required by the Italian Government for all firearms made in Italy. Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers.

BOTTOM LINE: The Chiappa PASSIVE RFID can be read ONLY when passed within (2-3 inches) of an active (and powered) reader that is dialed in for the particular long antenna radio frequency of the RFID-this is not random. And it will NOT go into operation for a year or more.

SUMMARIZING: RFIDs have NO power source or GPS locator. Rest assured they are NOT transmitting your identification and location information to a Chiappa Firearm tasked CIA satellite.

RFID Removal: For those still concerned you can simply remove the grip and remove the hot glued RFID from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear. Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson’s 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that’s a plan too!

This is one epic fail. Goodbye Chiappa, its game over on this side of the Atlantic.

UPDATE: My friend and fellow blogger Albert Rasch has also blogged about the above press release. He writes

Having no small experience now with RFID, let me tell you that they can be read by the appropriate reader at 30 meters. Furthermore no RFID chip reader that is being used for logistical control will have its range limited to 3 inches. A carton, or even pallets of materials will need a reader set to several feet. ” Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. Now, it will no longer be necessary to open/inspect hundreds of boxes by hand prior to packing in export containers. ” 3 inches eh? How is it going to read a pallet of material at 3 inches? I can only assume that MKS Distributors thinks most people are idiots, and incapable of figuring things out on their own.




Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • http://www.nitroexpress.com Mehul Kamdar

    I was considering a Rhino revolver as I do not currently have a 357 handgun. I’ll now add a little money to my budget and buy a Coonan auto instead. I’ll happily keep my money in the USA and get a product from a company that will not bow to anti gun forces – which is exactly what this RFID con job from Chiappa is. I am also aware whom they supply their lever actions to for customizing. Believe me – this is going to come back to bite Chiappa in the tail just like Anschutz’s attempts in a similar vein came back to hurt them.

    • Cal

      You’re a nut if you think there’s anything “anti-gun” about RFID chips.

      • Ant

        That’s how all systems of control start out, moron.

        The guy who released that comment to the public has to be some kind of neocon POS, just like you perhaps.

  • subase

    Paranoid and gun owner go together like peanut butter and jelly.

  • Erik

    E-mail Addresses for MKS Supply.

    Our email addresses:

    Charles Brown, President
    [email protected]

    Kelly Walton, Vice President
    [email protected]

    Kenneth Vanhoose,
    Director of Operations
    [email protected]

    All other correspondence:
    [email protected]

    Have fun folks. I know I did.

  • Jon

    Their arguments don’t make any sense, neither does the market. I could see this as a useful feature for service arms where you could do a very quick and efficient inventory. Lost weapons in Iraq have been a problem. You could also do things like authentication, to make sure everybody with a gun walking into a base was authorized, and track when they left the building.

    The arguments about inventory and supply chain are unconvincing. In all of these other industries, like DVDs and luggage, the RFID is in a tag or sticker. When the gun was sold, they could just peel off the sticker and throw it away.

  • Droptong

    The Rhino is hideous + open disdain for the customer = no sale! If you’re not gonna recycle that foil…..

  • Joseph Bishop

    I would definitely dig it out!!! And, I wouldn’t probably purchase one on principal.

  • Paul

    What kind of RFID are they using? If it only contains the information on the gun like the serial number and the date of manufacturing then this could serve as a way to validate the firearms legitimacy (to collectors for example). There are many types of chips and many uses for them. By the looks of that one in the picture it has no power source so it would require a signal to be pinged off of it to send data. And then the only data sent would be what is on the tag (the serial number or so on). As far as I know (and I’m working with limited knowledge so bear with me) to track the location of a RFID tag the tag needs a power source. Heck this could be useful if you look at it the right way.

  • Karl Erich Martell

    I bought one of the first ones – and I love it. But this nonsense would have kept me from even considering one. MKS – nice job alienating your American client base. Have fun in Chapter 11!

  • Kyle

    The only problem I could see is if they imbed the chip INSIDE the stock. Like a synthetic one could have one buried inside it to guard against removal.

  • Jeff Powell

    MKS sounds like a bunch of snobs. I will NOT be buying a gun from them.

  • http://incoherentdiscourse.blogspot.com MattW

    I actually have no problem with RFID tags being present in a firearm assuming the manufacturer discloses its presence and it is easy for an end user to remove. What I do have an issue with in this case is MKS Distributing’s response to customer concerns. Mocking a large portion of your customer base is something you learn not to do in Sales 101. I will not be buying a Chiappa primarily because I don’t want to deal with the arrogant folks at MKS. Too bad too, I think the Rhino is an interesting revolver worth owning.

  • Jack

    Nobody is using RFID detection equipment to spy on you. This isn’t a big deal and you are being a crazy baby.

  • Remy

    Yea, it’s a shame that they’re doing this as well as being complete jerks to their customer base. I have one gun from Chiappa (a Puma Bounty Hunter) and it’s great – I would love to get a Rhino 60DS but I’m not so sure now. Even if I can remove the RFID tag, it still would be paying them for adding the RFID tag and encouraging this behavior.

    Since there are always two boxes – the box the gun comes in and the box it is shipped in – there’s no reason not to just put the RFID tag in the BOX instead of in the gun.

  • Mark

    Here’s the e-mail I just sent MKS…

    Sirs,

    “Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson’s 1997 film, Conspiracy Theory. Well, that’s a plan too!”

    Are you serious? Did you really release a statement saying that? Do you realize how many potential customers you just LOST? This is on top of the reported Rhino pistol failures already documented. What were you thinking?

    I hope your future business includes carrying firearms acceptable to freedom loving Americans. I for one will purchase firearms, regardless of manufacturer, distributed from anyone other than you.

    Mark (xxx…)

  • Andy

    Well, that *is* an epic PR fail. But, it’s essentially correct in that RFID does make inventory checks easier, faster and cheaper.

    I’ve never fired a Chiappa, but let’s assume they are decent firearms with a following. A smart retailer could remove the chip before sale, or offer replacement grips, etc. But, I honestly think most consumers won’t care. Gun media creators and consumers (bloggers/magazine/video and their readers/viewers) represent a small minority of the gun owning public, in my personal observation, and they won’t even hear the hue and cry.

  • http://ernunnos.livejournal.com/ Jason

    Actually, I think it’s kind of funny. They’re right. If you don’t like it, just remove it. They’re not even the first manufacturer to do this. H&K has had inventory RFIDs on at least some of its pistols for a couple of years now. I don’t recall it causing much comment, much less a boycott.

    While we’re on the topic, do you have a Faraday wallet? Lots of credit cards these days have RFIDs too. And criminals are already sniffing them. I have a “tin foil” RFID-blocking wallet. Anybody who doesn’t, yet complains about easily-removable RFIDs on guns is a big ol’ hypocrite.

    We live in a world where some gun makers include integral locks that have been known to engage under recoil. That’s a serious issue. A chip you can remove in 30 seconds with a multi-tool? Not so much.

  • M von Power

    I understand the desire to better track things at the factory and to ensure, as the release says, “…a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code…”; it make sense.

    How ever, I blame the fiasco that is to follow on the US distributor for it’s awful attitude openly poking fun at it’s customers (and in my case) potential customers. Looks like an other Ghisoni design will be relegated to obscurity.

    A smart company would have informed it’s customers of the RFID-chip emplacement and how to remove it should you wish instead of chastising them.

    After I have my new RHINO in hand, I think it’s RFID-chip and a nasty letter about this press release might find it’s way to MKS Distributing.

    • Cal

      The overwhelming majority of potential owners aren’t going to give a damn.

      • Erik

        Yea well I do. I’ll never buy a Chiappa because of this. You don’t see Beretta, Uberti, Pietta, Benelli, Franchi, Bernardelli, etc. putting RFID chips in their guns, so the “Law” thing is bullshit.

  • http://jackbootedliberal.com Joshua

    Put it in the microwave and fry it.

    Oh wait… what are guns made of?

  • Moose

    Bad move.

    No matter what, a company shouldn’t make smart-assed remarks towards their customers…

    Personally, I hope this affects their sales, so MKS and others can learn to better take care of their customers.

  • Russell

    So all the manufactures are going to be putting them in eh? So what! I still dont want it on the gun, besides, inventory control is not the consumers problem. This may have something to do with Kahr Arms being sloppy with inventory and getting sucessfully sued. Sara Brady sez, putting these in will make us happy.

  • Mr. Fahrenheit

    Pffft. Well…my novelty crush on the Rhino is over.

  • abprosper

    MKS deserves to go out of business on contempt of customer grounds alone.

  • Peter in DC

    Clearly this company failed to heed the lessons of the Smith & Wesson fiasco March 2000 Agreement with the Clinton Administration. End result of that stunt was that S&W sales plummeted like a sinking ship. Whoever was in-charge of this stunt over at Chiapa ought to get driven straight to the Unemployment office and left there.

  • Jay

    RFID are used for tracking, it is that simple. Not GPS tracking (not that it couldn’t be created to) but tracking non the less. As well as to carry information, what ever they want that to be.

    Just as one can build a cell phone jammer to kill all the signals in a theater, one can build a locater/reader for RFID chips. In that example one can “ping” the room for any known RFID chips, which can lead to identifying armed persons.

    That type of scenario is similar to the illegal license plate scanners police officers have on their vehicles that do active scans of passing vehicles for warrants and the like. In theory RFID chips can be embedded to firearms so officers can drive by and search for persons carrying firearms.

    If RFID were to be used on firearms in the future there could be scanners on every public building and public transport to scan persons for RFID chips registered to firearms.

    It is not an impossible task to create a system using RFID to track and identify firearms as they pass through public or even inside private areas. Adding a power source that utilizes wake/sleep feature whence scanned can extend ranges.

    This isn’t a exorbitantly imaginative idea, it only takes a motivated bureaucracy and an apathetic public.

  • jdun1911

    Andy,

    Customers will care, no doubt about it. When people buy firearms which isn’t cheap for the most part will do their own research. Everything negative will affect the customer decisions. I seen this kind of behavior over and over since the internet became mainstream.

    While this isn’t as bad as S&W making a pack with the devil in the late 90’s which cause them to go bankrupt and sold immediately after it was known.

  • Nadnerbus

    Jack, I didn’t get that that was the insinuation. The more likely threat of misuse would come from criminals with RFID readers who could possibly sniff out who owned guns, maybe even their type and serial number depending on the encoded information and access to the relevant database. That kind of capability would scare me.

    But even if this was just a tinfoil hat issue, for the love of god know your customer base. The gun owning community at large would clearly have privacy concerns about something like this, and anyone could have seen this coming. If they needed the chips for QC then that’s fine. Disclose on the packaging it’s existence and make them easy to remove. That said, they are not shipping with the chips yet anyway, and maybe they would have done this.

    The response was probably just meant to be funny, but it does come off as condescending and was a pure PR blunder.

  • Quintin

    I am old enough to remember the same kind of sniveling paranoia about bar codes. Any one ‘offended’ by the presence of this is acting like a child. RFID chips are in things like toner bottles in your office copier. Sound the alarm. Of course it’s simply there to identify when a new bottle is put in, but hey, it could also be monitoring your brainwaves for the CIA. These things hold about as much information as those anti-shoplifting tags you encounter at the store (some of those are RFIDs too).

  • carter

    Buh Bye Rino, hellooo Ruger.
    My many thanks for posting this.
    Zero Tolerance – I like the sound of that now.

  • Theodoric

    There are RFID chips or worse in nearly everything. Not a big deal.
    And criminals who are smart and wealthy enough to build long-distance chip readers won’t attack you with a knife either.

  • DW

    Removable RFID for more efficient inventory check is ok, but mocking worried consumer is not.

  • so great

    Since paranoid idiots are so often gun enthusiasts, Chiappa made a serious marketing mistake with this.

    I admire their character for their response, it was the right thing to say, even if it wasn’t the smart thing to say from a business perspective.

    It will certainly work in their favor if I’m ever deliberating buying one of their guns.

  • http://www.securityarms.com/forums Pierangelo Tendas (PT-The Italian Commie)

    I am actually in VERY STRICT CONTACT with Chiappa, and a close frirnd of theirs, and I have to say that there has been pretty much hype and falsity around this RFID thing (possibly to cut their EXCELLENT “Rhino” revolver off the US market to the advantage of local products? Who knows?).

    A couple of hard facts:

    #1: Despite being technically called a RFID device, CHIAPPA’s “chip” can not be read if not extracted from the gun.
    #2: CHIAPPA’s device will be a pre-written, read-only “Chip” containing only factory informations.
    #3: Currently-marketed CHIAPPA firearms are NOT equipped with the RFID device, nor them will be for the next few months, until beginning 2012 at least.
    #4: There are NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to implement the technology on firearms sold in the United States in the near future.

    There. Happy, now? Go buy your new Rhino today and don’t mind S&W-maneuvered scare propaganda.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Steve (The Firearm Blog)

      PT,

      Regarding #1: The MKS press release indicates that it is RFID and can be scanned from a distance, and will be used to track inventory. Either MKS or you are wrong. From the press release “Passive RFID is also a final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping. ”

      Regarding #2: The problem is that in the USA is that many people carry concealed guns. American consumers do not want anybody to be able to detect that they are carrying a gun. This is not about being tracked with a gun serial number, but simply being detected.

      Regarding #3: Good. Hopefully they will never export them to the USA

      Regarding #4: The MKS press release is targeted at US journalists and consumers, they obviously believe that Chiappa RFID chips will be exported to the USA. From the press release “from the frame in the grip area when (over a year from now) these begin to appear”

      I like Italian firearm manufactures, and Chiappa, but I guarantee American consumers are going to be very unhappy about this.

  • http://gunscoffee.blogspot.com Fred

    Doesn’t matter what reasoning you have for the chip, you don’t openly mock your customer base…

  • Julio

    And we’re always complaining that the hoplophobes lack a sense of humour!

  • Dan

    Isn’t this the same company that imports or owns Hi-Point and Charter Arms?

  • Just Saying

    As long as you can find it, it would be pretty easy to deactivate. Probably a minute or two of contact by a soldering iron would destroy it.

    From what I know, RFID doesn’t go all that far and can be blocked by a metal enclosure.

  • wganz

    The known presence of an RFID chip isn’t the problem because I understand their use for inventory control in warehouses and the proposed location is easy for the end user to remove so as to avoid some of the demonstrated means of identifying the presence of a particular RFID chip at > 100 meters. What bothers me is the openly arrogant disregard to the questions raised about the chip’s placement which makes me wonder about kind of customer service would I get once I got a Rhino revolver. Yes, I was waiting on the release of a 4″ version to try one but am definitely backtracking on that.

    This arrogant and condescending attitude plus Chiappa’s alignment with the anti’s to ban importation of ‘black rifles’ into Italy has taken them off my ‘to buy’ list.

  • Spade

    “Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control.”

    I’m assuming this is the same group of Italian gun makers that lobbied for and got the importation of AR-15s and similar rifles banned in Italy.

    They are not our friends.

  • Levi B

    I was considering one of their revolvers. I wasn’t so worried about the RFID chip, but that condescending press release resolved the issue. When your customers’ concerns are mocked, your customers go elsewhere.

    The triggers on them blow, anyways.

  • Andrew

    UH OHHHH!

  • Marty

    RFID chips are used by many firearms companies.

    I bet some people bitched when they started using serial numbers. Because that is all it is, a serial number. Like a UPC label.

  • Will

    Steve,

    It’s an RFID chip, not a tracking device. Granted, someone could sit outside Wal-Mart and wait for the one person in who know’s how many hundreds of thousands of people to get a scan of a Chiappa firearm. And what then, epic throw down of a nerd and some scanning gear and a carrier of a .357 Chiappa? Who cares?

    They are Italian, and a little arrogant. We are American, and a little pig headed. I think he got our reactions exactly correct and responded in kind.

  • http://rockinaseaofchaos.blogspot.com That Guy

    My plan after getting the “1911 for 2011″ was to get a Chiappa Rhino. Now they are off the list. Chiappa lost a customer because of the arrogance and condescension of MKS Supply.

    I don’t have a problem with the RFID chip being in the gun, if the customer is made aware, and they are easily removable.

    I am glad that Charter Arms fired MKS last year. They deserve to fail completely if that is how they treat customer concerns.

  • http://www.weapon-blog.com Aaron Spuler

    I watched a presentation at Black Hat last year where the presenter talked about some really high gain antennas he’d used in the past, where he was able to read RFID tags from MILES away.

  • Richard Johnson

    Dan,

    MKS and Charter ended their relationship some time ago.

  • http://incoherentdiscourse.blogspot.com MattW

    Dan, from my research MKS is the exclusive distributer of Hi-Point (not owner). It stopped being the distributer of Charter Arms in 2010.

    I have never been interested in Hi-Points… but I am glad they are no longer the distributer for Charter so I can continue to buy their guns.

  • tincan

    Relax, dudes, and don’t give in to the paranoia that the NRA turns into bigger yachts for its lobbyists.

    I would absolutely buy a gun with a chip it. This is absolutely no worse than having a registered gun with a serial number. So what if someone can identify you from 30 feet away while you’re carrying? To have that kind of equipment, they’ll be cops and they’ll be hard pressed to tell a gun RFID from the credit cards in everyone’s pocket around you. And if they do somehow ID you, you’re either carrying legally or illegally. If the former, no sweat.

  • http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com Tam

    What wganz said in his comment.

    The problem isn’t the chip. I understand its use for inventory control. If I don’t want the gun to be “scannable”, I can take care of the chip myself.

    The problem is the incredible ‘tude copped by the importers at MKS. With an attitude like that, I wouldn’t spit in their mouths if their teeth were on fire, let alone spend my hard-earned cash to support their business.

  • Mat

    Person posting e-mail addreses of people should be permamently banned from the blog an the post removed.

    Most of the people bitching about RFID chips should realy put some tin foil hats on ,here they are bitching about an company letting customers know that chips are being used ,these same people have number of these chips on them every day and don’t even know it and in end effect these chips have no customer information ,they are there to make production and supply cheaper and more efficient what should in end effect make them cheaper .

    About range at which these could be pinged depends of the pinger ,in normal use range is couple of inches as otherwise multiple chips are pinged and you have no usefull data ,so imagine pinging the chip from 100yards there are probably dozens of chips that could respond in between. Some common sense people otherwise tin foil hat is the only solution

  • MarkM

    If you buy merchandise from BoxMart or Autozone, you are buying RFID chips, in every pilferable high profit item the vendor can convince the store to carrry.

    Right down to Halogen headlight bulbs. Pay attention, the laser scan of the bar code is right next to the RFID disabler, one swipe, and it’s turned off and entered onto the invoice. It’s not 100% reliable, if you’ve ever bought a DVD and heard the Ominous Voice From Above exiting the store and met the friendly greeter there to check what item better be on your reciept, you already know about RFID tags. It’s been going on for 25 years, duh. Nothing new at all.

    Don’t like them, here’s some hints: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-blockkill-RFID-chips/

    Point being, how do you know your stuff has one? They even get sewed into wallets now ….

  • Royi

    Scared of people finding out you have a gun just by carrying a rfid in your gun?
    Try having rfid’s in your money. Or virtually anything else.

    Using one of those advanced readers, you can just point at a house and find out:
    – how many people are living there (rfid in your ID’s)
    – how many creditcards there are.
    – key cards.
    – if there’s cash, and how many.
    – medical records of the cat and dog.
    – expiration date of items in the fridge.
    – oh, and the availability of any modern firearm produced in Europe

    That has some advantages. Imagine burglars in the not-too-far future checking their computer in their car:
    “Look man, let’s not go with that house.. I’m not risking my life for 300 bucks while the owner has two rifles and three pistols near his bed, there’s also a doberman… Let’s go with the house next door, they don’t have guns, but they do have 1244 bucks and only an obese cat to guard it, it’ll unlikely throw those twinkies at us that has been expired 3 weeks ago.”

    Bottomline, I don’t really care about rfid’s in whatever they put them.. They’re the new barcode apparently and we have to live with them until someone invents something better.
    What I do care is that MKS apparently hired some slick marketing-guy who tought he could spin-control it by trying the “funny-guy-approach”.
    Not sure how it is over there, but I will assume that even in the US, a ‘funny-guy-approach’ helps you to sell cars, but should be avoided when selling guns.

  • Charles Soto

    I don’t really care if there’s an RFID chip inside my firearms. I want quality at a reasonable cost. I also want them manufactured where the labor put in earns someone a livable wage. If this helps achieve it, then I have no problems.

  • Frank

    Sure is tinfoil hatish here.

  • Mr Evilwrench

    I use this kind of RFID around the house, for selectively locking doors, cabinets, that kind of thing. It’s really kind of fun. Don’t worry about the expense, the transponders are dirt cheap and it probably saves them hella money at the factory. Maybe they’ll pass the savings on to you! Anyway, they’re also easy to remove or defeat. Take a few minutes and dig the thing out. No problem. It would probably have been just as effective and desirable to use one that snapped around the trigger guard so it could be removed by the customer, but they did what they did. As to the PR fiasco, somebody needs to be slapped, but it’s kind of funny.

  • RT

    RFID or RuBee tags – one passive and the other active – one for Chiappa and the other for SigSauer. Both spell trouble. Both methods allow for quick identification of guns, carried concealed or hiddened in the home.
    Possible scenerio include:
    – News reporter sniffing out passerbys on street corner. Identifying a person with concealed carry license. Harrassing him for a story and having that person’s name/picture displayed on local news. Same effect as news paper printing the names of concealed carry licensees – invasion of privacy and tells others (criminals and anti-gun people) who can carry.
    – Sophisticated terrorist using portable RFID sensors to identify undercover police (assuming carrying Chiappa or Sigs) or CCWs when they are setting up a well planned, organized terrorist attack – think Mumbai, Beslan school!
    Being paranoid of potential threats is good, so do not disregard the possibilities. Detection sensors on weapons is stupid. A gunowners has a weapon for personal/home defense, so do not weaken the protection the weapon provides – even if threat is theoretical at this time. Remember, a Mumbai attack was only theortetical until it actually happened!

  • deconb

    As one of the organizers of DEFCON, I can confirm to you that you can read a tag of this sort at up to 30 feet. Chris paget, a security researcher says that with enough microwave, the distance is greatly increased. “If you could convince the guys at the airport to let you use their radar, you could probably read these things from 10’s of miles away.”

    Don’t believe the rfid anti-hype. this is BAD.

    watch for yourself

    Chris Paget – RFID Mythbusting Defcon 17 talks

  • tomaso

    Steve…Chiappa made a HUGE PR mistake, thats for sure…but really so did who ever wrote this artical…the chips are read from scanners at about 5 feet or less…it makes innovatory logistics a snap, and speeds up shipping and tracking..it will not be long before ALL company’s use such systems to handle invintory…welcome to the future. Now yes it is possible for “stores” and “buildings” to have equipment to read the chips as you are entering..but it will take a bit of info and programing for them to know what just got scanned. I do have to say i would prefer to know that my pistol has such a thing on it and it can be removed……if its not removable then id have an issue.

  • Sid

    Dear Gun-owner,

    Thank you for your purchase of this Chiappa firearm. Please note that an RFID is implanted in your firearm for inventory and shipping purposes only. If you wish to remove the RFID, a helpful diagram has been enclosed iwth the other packing materials. If you require technical assistance or advice during this procedure, please call our trained tech support staff at the number listed on the enclosed map.

    Again, thank you for your purchase of this Chiappa firearm. We hope you enjoy your purchase.

    Print that up and enclose it in the box with every gun they sell….. NOOOOOOOO! Issue a smartass statement that offends a good portion of the gun community….. Yeh, that’s good PR work.

    It honestly does not matter what the utility of the RFID chip is. Is not even the damn issue. The issue is a gun manufacturer screwed up. They agreed that they were all smarter than us and anything that they did not care about was a silly issue. Well, thank you very much for helping me narrow down my list of future purchases.

  • Pliskin

    It seems like some people stopped reading the story after the title. Looks like I’m buying a 686 soon. Glad I caught this, I was actually thinking about giving them my money.

  • Anon

    The bottom of the memo even states it’s simple and legal to remove the RFID chip hell the memo says it plain as day that they don’t care what happens to the chip after it leaves the warehouse and that you can simply pry it out….and from the looks of it they’re only using them to simplify logistical processes which in turn will probably lead to greater savings on their (and hopefully our) end…

    All this tinfoil hatting doesn’t seem warranted and the mouth frothing hate MKS is getting for using RFIDS is absolutely ridiculous.

    I was expecting more of a level headed and unbiased view regarding this matter especially from a blog I regard so highly, this post seems to be doing nothing but pandering to a certain unsavory demographic of gun owners and my disappointment cannot even be expressed in words.

  • Nathaniel

    You know, it’s a real shame quality control measures like RFID can’t be used in the gun industry without inspiring fear and paranoia.

    Thanks, BATFE!

  • nathan

    i like how they basically say that no government would ever use this technology for tracking and identification, and that only nuts believe they would, in the same letter where they state that their government does just that.

  • Droptong

    Vigilant defense of one’s freedom is not idiocy or paranoia. To not see how this can be misused or abused to the detriment of freedom and privacy is short sighted at best. Because we all know people never take advantage of one another or abuse positions of authority we should be fine, just fine. Paranoid? Not so much. Vigilant? Yes.

  • Anon

    The idea that a criminal is going to buy an expensive device specifically so he can check to see if people might be carrying this one particular gun is so completely absurd I can’t believe anyone would even bring it up.

  • James

    Yep – never buying one of those!

  • http://falnfenix.blogspot.com Laura

    Dan – Charter is a US company based in Connecticut, and no, they’re not owned by MKS.

  • ap

    Insulting your customers is always good for business! That MKS employee deserves a raise!

  • Pete

    This certainly has the potential to be some kind of trojan-horse for Orwellian measures, no doubt. Its not paranoia.

    Very easy to equip a town/city with a not-exactly-expensive network of RFID readers/detectors (mature, cheap technology), they can track gun owners no problem.

  • Rodger

    Tell Chiappa how you feel. I was going to purchase a Rhino, not now. Not after this offensive release, and chip. Here’s a link to their contact us.
    http://chiappafirearms.com/contact-us

  • Gary in CT

    In the future, removing the RFID Tag from your firearm will results in criminal charges. Just like removing the serial number is already a felony.

  • arleigh

    The fact that the chip is removable makes the effort useless.
    it only makes it effective for manufactures stocking inventory,nothing more.
    Once it reaches the market the chip could be potentially emoved and placed on a piece of junk sealed in a box and no one would know a thing untill the box is actually opened again.
    The chip does nothing to secure the item it is put with.
    So far as making an announcment of a chip on a thing ,no different than the chips put on animals , it is the illusion of security people buy.
    As a mechanic ,I put my name on my tools in the event that they are stolen or lost .but the chances are 99% of the time they are gone forever.
    Police departments do not return stuff they have recovered from being stolen , they auction it off ,or take it home .
    Friends and family all know this is a fact.
    So that chip is a guarenteee of nothing, as far as I am concerned.

  • Griffin

    @subase, I couldn’t agree more. On a gun owner paranoya scale of 2-10 (with 10 being the highest) I consider myself a 1. However even at 2 I’m exponentially more paranoid than 90% of my non-gun owning friends and family.

    @Steve, I really enjoy this blog. You always do a great job and even when strongly disagree with your posts, or some of your guest posters, (which is very rare) it’s always very informative and interesting.

    So don’t take this the wrong way, but I’ve noticed more grammatical errors creeping in. In this article, for example, there is a “to” instead of a “too” and an “as” instead of an “are”. I’m not very skilled at grammar myself, but thought I’d mention it since I was starting to see a pattern of incorrect words being used.

  • DaveP.

    PT- since you are in “VERY CLOSE CONTACT” with Chiappa, you might want to let them know how many new customers their American distributor (oh, and yourself) have lost them with this kind of snot-nosed behavior.
    Myself included.
    So hey- how’s that for “S&W propaganda”?

  • Brian P.

    Pardon my language, but you have GOT to be shitting me…. What the hell are they thinking? I still plan on getting a Rhino, but if I find some RFID chip in mine, when I get it, it’s coming out right away.

  • subase

    Note to self: Remember to remove rfid chip on revolver before tossing in river.

  • http://elmtreeforge.blogspot.com Firehand

    A thought occurs: will they decide that removing the chip counts as ‘unauthorized tampering or modification’ and void the warranty?

  • Michael Barbu

    I work with RFID in a professional manner on a regular basis. I write software for a company that works tradeshows and we have shows that use RFID badges. I can tell you for FACT that their claim to 3″ is complete BS. We have some readers that are in the 3″-5″ range, but others that are several feet…like 10’+.

  • Wrex

    Thanks for alienating your customer with your condescending press release. We won’t be buying any more of your product and won’t be reselling them to our customers. They will be directed towards purchasing from your competitors. Way to go!

  • Jester

    I would think there are other areas that could be tagged on the firearm if it is needed, that are more open. If this is as they claim for inventory and logistics then so be it, but the public relations needs a serious overhaul. This is a pretty big problem, but things often fade in time. As some of the commentators here have mentioned, S&W’s alignment with the Clintons, the alignment of other Italian manufacturers to block the importation of items. They will get past this just fine and will probably not even notice it as most folks will not be aware of this, or of the blocked importation or just be too fixated on the brands. Think that I’m wrong? Anyone remember a fellow by the name of Bill Ruger that made a comment about never intending his high capacity magazines to be owned by civilians? Ruger firearms company sure did go out of business!

    That aside, this was very poorly handled by the company itself. Then again mocking potential customers and having an arrogant attitude seems to be rather common, these days.

  • http://www.aaronmbrown.net/blog AMB

    This won’t deter me at all from buying Chiappa firearms. I will, however, be removing the RFID chip. If I’m feeling crotchety I may replace it with one that transmits a lewd message when read.

    RFID is an industry standard for inventory tracking in many fields, and I’m not surprised it’s used in firearms as well. Typically, however, the RFID is embedded in the pallet or packaging, rather than the salable good itself. Why Chiappa took a different route is a mystery to me.

    The ubiquity of RFID somewhat undermines concerns regarding these chips. No doubt Chiappa is using an off-the-shelf RFID solution that embeds something like a serial number. Any fishing for RFID information wouldn’t have anyway of knowing if the serial that was getting returned was for a firearm, an RFID auto key, the inventory tag in a library book, etc. unless they were specifically familiar with Chiappa’s choice in RFID equipment and the format of the data encoded on them.

    Besides, you should be much MUCH more concerned with the RFID chips that are already in your credit cards and passports, assuming you got them in the last couple of years. Those are a wealth of personal and financial information and are the real target of hackers with RFID readers.

  • Boom Stick

    Had never thought to buy one of their firearms but their response has guaranteed I never will.

    I’ll cling to my Bible, non-chipped guns and tinfoil thank you very much.

  • Walter

    To Jay,
    What’s the difference between an “illegal license plate scanner” and the officer just typing your license plate into their mobile computers. Its simply a faster method. You do know they do that don’t you? You do know that your license plate has your vehicle info, your address if your registration is up to date, and your insurance info right? It also has any warrants you have as does your driver’s license. Just FYI.

    MKS is just stupid. Regardless of what the chip does if you reply to inquiries about it with an arrogant, condescending attitude instead of addressing the concerns like a grown man you have made a stupid business decision.

    To Quintin and so great,
    The only idiots I run across are criminals and the people who have a disdain for gun owners as they are most likely child-like people who are scared to death of guns and therefore have some sort of sexual disfunction or some sort of unhealthy attitude towards their own genitalia. Just FYI.

  • hillbilly

    A lot of posters on this thread are exhibiting a trait I’ve noticed that really manifests among young, tech-savy types.

    They are openly ridiculing anybody who has a problem with this situation, and then launch into snarky little lectures about RFID technology.

    They are so hell-bent on lecturing those who aren’t as up on technology, so eager to demonstrate their superior knowledge that they cut off their own noses to spite their faces.

    They absolutely and totally miss the salient point here.

    The point here is that Chiappa’s PR firm, Shults Media, or whomever they are, responded to concerns about Chiappa’s products by insulting, ridiculing, and snarking at potential customers.

    Insulting and ridiculing and mocking potential customers is not very good for business. But then again, maybe you spent so much time updating your Facebook status that you missed that one in Marketing 101?

    Once you snark at me like that, I don’t care how good your product may or may not be. You are never getting any of money, ever.

  • James Bradley

    Remove the grip to remove the RFID chip?? Ok, easy enough done with most revolvers, but what of the Rhino? Take it to a gunsmith to avoid problems with the warranty and then send Chiappa/MKS the bill for the work along with their “chip”
    Have shot one of their 22/45’s, shoddy workmanship. Save your money and buy a GSE/sig 22/45…

  • Todd

    On the net you can find instructions on how to fry the internal circuitry of RFID using a simple disposable camera flash unit. It has something to do with the EMP emitted by a mega burst of the flash after a little internet voodoo mod of the flash unit. Any RFID can be defeated for about $1 and you wouldn’t have the unsightly damage caused by digging it out with a screwdriver.

  • crabclawz

    They must be kidding. To be so flippant. They can shove their harmless chips up their grip panels. This crew are dead to me. Kiss off Shiappa.

  • http://extranosalley Stranger

    Actually, the range of an RFID chip depends on the size of the antenna built into the chip. More antenna, more signal pickup, more signal output, longer range. The fact these chips operation in the 13.56 mHz (megacycle) band with its 22 Meter wavelength sharply limits the range of small devices.

    Passive RFID chips come in various sizes from the microchips with micro ranges embedded in clothing labels to chips that can be read at a hundred yards or so. But Identec’s shipping container size chips are proportionately larger than the one in the Bentonville Behemoth’s towels. One can be read at 50 mm or so, the other at 100 meters. One is hardly larger than a grain of rice, the other is many times larger.

    So the range of an RFID chip that can be hidden in a handgun should not be a concern. There just is not enough room for a long range chip.

    Stranger

  • Mac C

    You are FAR FAR more likely to be “detected carrying” by printing than by someone using a high powered RFID detector to “find” you and your gun. Seriously. Of all the concerns to have while carrying being detected by someone with a scanner is pretty damn low on my list.

  • glockboy98

    The best part of this is, it’s true. Most gun owners are paranoid and hate being called out on it. Then they proceed to act like 12 year olds and cry and complain to whoever they think should care. Honestly, I’m not a huge fan of RFID, but it’s in lots of things you own anyway, so relax, the ultra stealth black hawks aren’t going to be circling around your house trying to get your chiappa made junk. I think it’s funny and I think they were trying to be moderately humorous, but sarcasm doesn’t work well in text form. Relax, remove the stick from your rear end, and buy quality weapons from now on.

  • DaveR

    How can a REMOVABLE chip be of any more use than a printed sticker on the gun? Can the RFIDs not be falsified or put on the wrong gun? Moreover, if the chip is used as a “final check that verifies that what is inside the sealed box is the same thing as shown on the box exterior bar code during shipping”–what to say that there’s anything inside the box other than the chip?–visual inspection would still seem to be mandated.

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    PT, as Steve indicates, your comment shows an ignorance of how RFID works.

    Others above scoff at skepticism to RFID tagging of firearms. But those ridiculing the skepticism show only their own naivete. I once worked for a credit card processing company and spent some time on the issue of RFID enabled credit cards and the security issues there are very significant. I do in fact make sure that none of my financial information is on RFID enabled devices, I don’t have a RFID enabled passport and I wouldn’t buy an RFID tagged firearm.

    And a company that makes such a offensive press release about my concerns can go stuff itself.

  • jaekelopterus

    Not really a big deal to this American consumer. Hell, it’s less of a burden to remove than those Smith and Wesson and Taurus revolver keyed safeties and HIGHLY unlikely to ever be any sort of tactical disadvantage. Not much of a fan of lever guns anyhow, though I’d love to try a Rhino.

  • armed_partisan

    I’m dubious of the RFID chip, but I would just pry it out or DRILL it out if I had to. I will not, however, have my legitimate concerns about privacy and personal security MOCKED by a bunch of people who think blogs are un-credible compared to the retro-media. I will not be lied to by a distributor about a known technology and it’s capabilities, nor will I stand idly by while I’m called a crackpot by those people who are less tech savvy than I am because my knowledge disputes their sales pitch! For these reasons, I will not buy buying any products brought in by MKS distributors.

    Oh? It’s the same technology they put in credit cards? I don’t have a credit card. I don’t like to have to pay someone to use my own money. Dave Ramsey said to use cash, so I do. And it’s in cell phones? I don’t have a cell phone. I only use a pre-paid when I travel, because I don’t wanna talk to you or anyone else when I’m working, or driving, or eating, or shopping, or visiting friends. Yeah, I’m a ludite. I bake my own bread, I grow my own vegetables, I don’t use AC, and I CARRY A GUN. The only reason anybody would need to know that about me is if they intended to harm me.

    • Cal

      There’s nothing “legitimate” about these paranoid “concerns”, though.

  • jdun1911

    Depending on the chip the range can go as far as 100m. IF you’re conceal carrying, well you really not for anyone that have a chip reader.

    You will bet a pretty penny if you ever go to court, the lawyer will ask you why you remove the RFID chip.

    I wouldn’t recommend buying integrated locks and RFID chip firearms. The liability is just too great.

  • Tom

    Paranoid is right, RFID tags are so numerous and usually contain no information except for a numerical code of some sort. Someone scanning you would not know if it was an RFID tag embedded in your credit card, license, cell phone as well as a ton of other items that contain RFID tags.

    Your assumption that by scanning someone you would receive a message stating

    “GUN, MAKE, MODEL” is simply incorrect. You would receive a bunch of numbers and letters and nothing else.

    You would also need to have access to gun shipping database for a specific company. Any effort to cross reference every RFID database with the code scanned would require so much specialization and work that it would be unfathomable to implement.

  • MrTolliver

    Just take the piezoelectric igniter out of an old barbeque lighters and use that to toast the RFID tag. The ~10k voltage should be enough to fry the IC in the RFID tag.

    Since I don’t have access to a RFID reader and tags, I’m not 100% sure this will work, but in theory the high voltage pulse from the igniter should fry most if not all the components of an integrated circuit.

    Just my 2 cents, plus you won’t look like a crazy person at the range. :)

  • Sean

    As an 11 year veteran of hacker conventions I can share at least one thing I’ve learned:

    Anything that can hold data can also hold bad data.

    Consider this the possible first step of many as firearm manufacturers joining the digital age. In twenty years, when all new firearms have RFID chips implanted in them, Walmart will be able to read your S&W J frame serial number when you walk through the door and the computers that control the cameras will track you while the facial recognition computers verify your identity and cross reference your CCW status before alerting the authorities in case of an irregularity.

    Or maybe, for the sake of simplicity, your RFID tag will already contain your personal information.

    This technology already exists. All it takes is the right amount of public opinion in the right direction.

  • howlingcoyote

    I think I’ll stay with buying Ruger and Marlin firearms.
    RFID chips are ways of the feds and companies to keep track of you.
    If one put the gun in water, would that short out the RFID chip?

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Steve (The Firearm Blog)

      howlingcoyote, it is not hard to destroy an RFID chip, but many (most?) are waterproof. Just cut it up with a knife, or melt it with a soldering iron.

  • tomaso

    the more i think of this the more it pisses me off……well Steve i guess Chiappa can thank a large portion of thier lost sales to the Firearm Blog….miss information and all…you should be real proud of this one….and to think no politics.

    Rhino was/is a great improvment on the revolver…sure it needs refinment..but heck throw them under the bus because of bad PR and a devise to improve shipping logistics….but wait quot info about how some dudes from a convention pinged info from 2 floors up…..yea great propaganda thier.. well im removing the firearms blog from my favorites bar…im sure i wont be missed…better yet i wont miss shit like this.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Steve (The Firearm Blog)

      tomaso, firstly, I am not the only one to report this.

      Secondly, if I don’t report a valid safety concern, and I believe it is,how much credibility would I have? And also how much self-respect would I have? None.

      No firearms have yet been chipped. They can easily, as some commenters said, just add a RFID token to the packaging and not the actual gun, and the problem would be solved. I hope they do this.

  • Remy

    @tincan

    That’s EXACTLY why people are worried about this – because the person ID-ing you would likely be a cop. While almost every state allows concealed carry, there are many areas where the police are extremely hostile towards anyone who has a CHL (the cops think only they should have guns). Hence why people are nervous about the possibility (even if it’s slim) of a cop being able to use a device to say “Hey, that guy walking down the street has a concealed gun on him – lets go rough him up”.

    Did you not see what happened in Canton, OH recently regarding police coming across a guy with a CHL?

  • Anon

    To all the infuriated gun owners claiming their “intelligence” was insulted by Chiappa’s memo I just have this to say…

    Get down from that gilded ivory tower and pop a xanax.

    I personally feel that their response to this invented outrage was totally appropriate, witty and 100% non-offensive. Where were all you tin hatters when they started putting RFID’s in your passports, consumer electronic goods, pets and credit cards? I don’t know about the rest of you but I’d be significantly more concerned about unscrupulous individuals knowing exactly how many inhabitants live in my home and how many big ticket electronic items are stashed within as opposed to them knowing I have an obscure European revolver. And this is all assuming your run-of-the-mill petty crook is going to invest that much capital into an RFID scanner just so they can inventory your house before they rob you. Their current business model of knocking over unsecured houses in affluent neighborhoods seems to be much more cost efficient.

    The entire premise that the OBAMMANATION GUBMINT and his FEMA cronies are planning a massive NWO plot to disarm the American gun owners one at a time using RFID’s to identify and earmark us for later persecution is so ridiculous it doesn’t even exist within the realm of reality, this technology is EXTREMELY easy to defeat even if you physically cannot remove the chip from the gun.

    All I’m seeing from the people who actually got offended for being treated like children after they jumped to conclusions like one is a bunch of uneducated foreigner hate along with that same old tired ‘murrica strong rhetoric.

  • mica

    welll that,s one 357 off my list and by that same token if that,s the addatude rino has about it,s coustomer,s thay can get bent \\ maby thay say rfid tag,s are diffaclt to track from distence but i can tell you right now the one,s in your pasport shure as hell are not canadien border cop,s knew my name at 25 feet away by just looking at thire dammm comp screen so if that,s possable why would i want a pistol that scream,s im on the small of his back

  • CFAFU

    “Others may prefer to wrap the revolver and their head in aluminum foil, curl in a ball and watch reruns of Mel Gibson’s 1997 film”

    Sounds like Chiappa just ‘DixieChicked’ themselves.

  • Jay

    @Walter

    As for license plate scanners.

    Police do not have the right to go and run (search) plates of vehicles because they feel like it. They have to witness a crime or have a reasonable articulate suspicion or probable cause of a crime that has or is going to be committed. Just like stopping you to ask for your ID as you walk down the street and running it through the system. You have a human right to privacy which is recognized in the bill of rights.

    When you have a license plate reader that scans every passing car, every scan is considered a search, this requires a warrant if the person hasn’t committed a crime. So every scan is a human rights violation, unconstitutional act and a disregard to their oath.

    With technology expanding it allows ease of violating large amounts of peoples rights. One has to be more vigilant of potential misuse.

  • greg

    Chiappa may well be only putting inventory control information on the RFID chip. However, how can we be certain that is all they WILL put on it. If the serial number is on it, it would be fairly easy to include a code that identifies the RFID as on a handgun. Lets see, 7 more letters? I would guess that any really useful inventory control numbers are going to run at least 6 digits. Heck, look at the serial numbers on your Microsoft products.

    PUtting the chip under the grip panels makes it “Look” like they might have originally intended to hide it. why not just put a sticker version on the grip?

    I was interested in shooting one, though I have heard at least some of their older products were very roughly made. The .45-70 lever action sounds interesting.

    Using humor to disarm anger is a legitimate tactic. Mocking the people who have doubts about something? good way to piss them off more.

  • Andrew (European Correspondent)

    I find it quite ironic that someone named “ANON” is mocking those with privacy concerns.

  • twylightsync

    “Because that is all it is, a serial number. Like a UPC label.”

    serial numbers are unique, upcs are not. wrong.

    “RFIDs are the thing that beeps when you leave a store.”

    Lol. No, completley different thing.

    Many people here are gun experts and are WAAAY off on this tech.

    What WILL happen, is hacker/thieves will learn what Chiappa (and other gun makers) code types are, then hook up a high powered scanner to their car battery, then drive around neighborhoods literally scanning houses with a hand held antennae hooked up to a laptop, and see what kinds of goodies you have to seeif you would make a good burglary target. We already are seeing people d rive around looking for wifi networks to monitor for online purchases, and this is similar. We are already seeing people carry handheld RFId scanners and picking up info from your wallet/purse from banks stupid enough to think criminals are dumb. I would NEVER buy this brands product now.

    Thier attitude is outrageous anyway. Sorry, your products are not that desirable and your not the only game in town. Show some class. The concern was valid.

    Put it this way-You can buy RFID experimenters kits online if your a techie/hacker type. If you are my neighbor and own this weapon, I WILL KNOW IT. AND WHERE IT IS IN YOUR HOUSE BY SIGNAL STRENGTH.

    Feel safe? well, you could wrap it in thick foil, like your assh0le manufacturer recommends when mocking you in press releases lol.

  • twylightsync

    Jay,

    in California, police cars are mounted with a few cameras, and do indeed scan passing cars automatically.

    I do department store security, and have noticed police cars driving around my parking lots much more now. they are looking for easy stolen cars. So, the state seems to disagree with you.

  • http://www.securityarms.com Pierangelo Tendas (PT-The Italian Commie)

    Dearest people (Steve included),

    First of all, the purpose of the RFID Chip proposed by Chiappa is not “detection”, and it can not in fact be “detected” unless the weapon is scanned from VERY CLOSE (that is, inside the box… but then, you just might as well pass through a Metal Detector and they’ll find out you’re armed).

    Second, CHIAPPA is a small business, and the reason why they’re implementing RFID technology is to save money on paperworks and traking of every single weapon they make.

    Third, they are now very well aware of the mistake. I think they’ll go reverse on it.

    Fourth, the press release was sent to ALL GUNWRITERS IN CHIAPPA AND MKS LISTS, including myself (I work for an ITALIAN gun magazine). They wanted to let people know worldwide.

    Fifth, there has never been a “lobby of gunmakers in Italy asking for a ban on import of ‘Black Rifles’ in the Country”. There is no such a ban in effect. The only reason why the AMERICAN-manufactured “Black rifles” are hard to get for Italian customers is that the Bush administration decided to impose the issue of a DSP-83 “End-User Certificate” for every single weapon exported from the United States that is based on an U.S. Military-issue weapon, even if it is a purely civilian variant. This also applies to some tactical accessories, including reflex, holographic and mil-dot sights, and some AR-15 apparel. The consequence is that basically every piece that comes to Italy has to be “already sold”, with a final user already clearly indicated in the paper. And the end user can not re-sell what he buys.
    But again, this is something that the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT asked, and imposed. Basically the Italian customers stopped buying US-made “Black Rifles” and are now buying models made in Germany, China, and some of our own (yes, one or two companies are starting to make ARs in Italy).

  • Anon

    Do you see what you’ve done, Steve? Enjoy having only readers like twylightsync goto your blog from now on.

    ELITE HACKER reporting in, let me round up my posse of super elite hacker criminalZ and we’ll grab our scannerZ and go around neighborhoods so I can exclusively rob houses where the occupants are armed…

  • DaveP.

    Gee, anon, just like how the Obama admin would never deliberately ship firearms to Mexican drug cartels, violating federal and international gun-trafficking laws in the process, to help push passage of new gun regs here at home?
    Can you TRY to make yourself look worse? Maybe jump up and down and call us doodie-heads?

  • DaveP.

    Hey guys, serious question: If the RFID chip was ‘just for inventory control’, why did Chiappa go through the trouble and expense of machining a pocket into the gripframe for a permanent, internal chip? Why was the chip intended to become a permanent and hidden part of the gun?

  • JC

    Is it really so far out there to think that the Goverment would try to track our guns, when the FBI can already, LEGALLY, track our cars without a warrant? Some people just dismiss this RFID thing as a conspiracy theory, but look at they facts. I personally do not want to give anyone (criminal, government, or some tech nerd) the ability to find out how many/ what type of guns or anything else are in my possession.

  • JeffreyB

    Apparently, the folks at MKS are unfamiliar with the name, Jim Zumbo.

  • Erik

    “Mat on 30 Jul 2011 at 1:40 am link comment

    Person posting e-mail addreses of people should be permamently banned from the blog an the post removed.”

    Mat, that was me. And no, you’re extremely WRONG. Learn more about RFID and what is possible with these things before you call me a TFH or say that we’re all paranoid. Steve is being very kind about leaving it up.

  • Mark

    You just need one of these to go with it.

    http://hackaday.com/2009/12/22/terminate-rfid-tags/

    The perfect tool for viewers of this blog. That or, you know, remove the grip and microwave it for 3 seconds.

  • tomaso

    Checking to see if i jumped to conclusions about this blogs merit…steve your responce just shows you don’t mind feeding the crazy frenzy. your not the only one to report this matter…and i haven’t read the others so i don’t know their take…but you certainly didn’t add any intelligence to the reporting did you….nope you fed the fear…the style and content of your reporting of this matter falls into the political style thats so common from sources like FOX….you misinformed your readers and add fears that were out of context….this is very much unlike the “open for debate” style that iv seen from your reviews….if this is how you and it seems alot of your readers feel , i wouldn’t want your type as customers if i made weapons…histerical anti government types need not reply…instead of taking the high road and addressing Chiappa about your dislike of said electronic info tag…and helping your readers understand the right way to react to like issues you all acted like toddlers “ill never buy from them”…realy if you owned a company would you want customers that feared “what the government might find out”…………. id bet not.
    I have to take my own advise…i wont stop reading your blog just because you were an idiot once (that i know of…and I’m guilty of idiocy myself at times)…your reviews by yourself and others are very good…i just have to lower my expectations when it come to some topics

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/ Steve (The Firearm Blog)

      tomaso, What did I report:

      “They have just made the worst gun industry PR move of the decade.”

      “Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. ”

      “Personally, if I bought a Chiappa, the first thing I would be is remove the grip and use my pocket knife to pry out the RFID chip.”

      So did I report anything untrue? Not one thing. I only reported facts. The most damning thing in my blog post is the awful PR release, which is filled with untruths and condescending, offensive humor.

      Don’t shoot (me) the messenger.

  • W

    hmmm…interesting how Europeans criticize skeptics of such technology, due to its implication of infringing a constitutional right, by attempting to discredit them as “paranoid” and “tin foil hat” types.

    Here’s a refute to the company’s comments:

    Attempting to sell a product to the largest private arms consumer in the world, and then having the arrogance to ridicule that country’s costumers, is a sure ticket way to lose sales of a product in a largely corporatist economy controlled mostly by the military-industrial complex…with competitive American firearms companies (i.e. Colt Defense) among its pillars. Good luck now. I commend your “marketing” strategy LMAO!!!

    *this comment was not meant to be political, it was a humorous backlash against the disingenuous public relations attempt by Chiappa firearms… :)

    • Cal

      No such “implication of infringing a constitutional right” exists, and you ARE paranoid.

  • jdun1911

    Did you guys/girls see the cop that threaten to kill a lawful citizen with a conceal permit because he was conceal carry?

    Really bad cop.

  • jdun1911

    H&K firearms are chipped IIRC.

  • Jerry Sussman

    Thanks, Steve for the article. I am in total accord with your sentiment. Having read all the comments, I am saddened, but not surprised, by those who parrot the mantra that the reaction to the RFID chip is typical “paranoia,” to be expected of the NRA and gun-owners alike. In support of their open contempt, some have suggested that a similarly unfounded fear was expressed when “UPC” codes first appeared some decades ago. To this, has been added the perverse argument that compact discs, “toner” cartridges, credit cards, and a myriad of other products long have used similar devices without the world having come to an end.

    To those smug commenters who have suggested that I and others are paranoid, I ask, what is it about the right of the people to keep and bear arm “shall not be infringed,” that you don’t understand? Last time I read the Bill of Rights, there was no similar protection for those who purchase a bag of pretzels in a bag marked with a UPC, nor for purchasers of a compact disc, nor for purchasers of a bottle of toner. The latters’ rights must be found elsewhere than in the Second Amendment.

    That right to keep and bear arms is for the benefit of the people who keep and bear arms, and not for the Government. The RFID chip is inconsistent with the concept of concealed carry. If the presence of a handgun may be detected, it is, by definition, not concealed. It may be an invasion of my privacy if the Government, without a warrant or reasonable cause, scans my person and determines that I am a Moody Blues fan. It will be an outrage and a violation of the Second and Fourth Amendments if that same Government, without a warrant or reasonable cause, scans my person and determines that I am carrying a concealed handgun.

    I commend the prescience of those who expressed concern that, in time, the act of removal of the RFID chip itself may be made unlawful and the additional concern that removing the RFID chip may eventually lead to the voiding of the manufacturer’s warranty. The greater concern, however, is that the tacit acceptance of the RFID chip on a firearm is an agreement with the devil, and that it is yet another step in the direction of the mandatory registration of firearms generally. Withstand beginnings; who knows where they shall end.

    Recognize the RFID chip for what it is. Shun those who apologize for it. It has no legitimate purpose once the handgun lawfully has been transferred to its owner. It’s only purpose under such circumstances is to track those handguns to which it is affixed. It is nothing short of complicity to the universal registration of all handguns. Let us not forget that the core reason for the Second Amendment is to prevent tyranny by Government, and not to prevent common street crime or to enable hunting or sport shooting. If the Second Amendment is to remain viable, we must resist all efforts that may facilitate or enable the Government to know the whereabouts of its citizens who lawfully choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

  • tomaso

    your comment:”Here is the problem: RFID units can be detected at long ranges with the right equipment, even if the signal is to low to be accuracy read. Hacking RFID systems is always popular at the big hacker conventions. Last year a hacker at DEFCON was able to detect if an individual standing on the ground floor parking lot of the Las Vegas Riviera Hotel was carrying a certain brand of RFID chip from as far away as the 29th floor of the hotel.”

    Misleading info…..what was the equipment?…did they already know the RFID was in his pocket….how long did it take for them to make the equipment?….this is the kind of implanted info that dos nothing but raise the hype..its inclusion in the report lacked credible informantion…more or less hear say… i say shoot the messenger when said messenger rewrites the message to his own agenda….worse part is you don’t get how you crossed the line…you went from reporting the information to adding stuff thats Highly unlikely to ridiculese…”FIREARMS NOT POLITICS” yea right..weres your agenda?

    “POLITICS :Politics (from Greek πολιτικός, “of, for, or relating to citizens”), politics can be observed in other group interactions, including corporate, academic, and religious institutions. It consists of “social relations involving authority or power”[1] and refers to the regulation of public affairs within a political unit,[2] and to the methods and tactics used to formulate and apply policy.[3]

    Just incase you missed my jist #3

  • http://www.securityarms.com PT-The Italian Commie

    Dearest people of this FOrum,

    I am worried to see how you’re getting yourself caught in the hype of the “Chiappa RFID Chip”. If you scroll the three pages of comments to this entry, you’ll find at least one response from me on the subject; I’ve posted another one, but it’s either awaiting moderation or got deleted for not being in-line with the increasingly worried (I don’t want to utter the word “paranoid) general thought concerning this matter.

    I am a close friend of the CHIAPPA people and in contact with Mrs. Cinzia Pinzoni. My insight allows thus me to clarify a few things:

    •1 – The KIMAR Group (that comprises the CHIAPPA trademark) is a small family business; they have decided to implement the RFID chip technology to save on paperworks and ease the trailing of history of every single firearm that is sold in case one should get back for repairs.

    •2 – The CHIAPPA RFID Chip is passive, not active. Not only it is pre-written with the data concerning the manufacture of the weapon, the lot number and the date of shipment to the distributor, but it can not be re-written, and it can not absolutely, POSITIVELY register ANYTHING, not any detail regarding the usage of the gun, nor about its movements, nor about the ownership. And it absolutely can NOT interfere (i.e. block) the gun, like other solutions proposed by ARMATIX.

    •3 – The CHIAPPA RFID Chip can only be read by passing a special scanner very close to it (i.e. on the box containing the gun). It can not be detected from the distance because it is not powered, and doesn’t emits a wide, broad signal like other RFIDs. Basically this has been done so that the distributor (MKS Supply) can keep trace of what they’re shipping/receiving and be sure that a box doesn’t contains the wrong item, especially if they’re re-sending to the owner a sample that has been sent in for repair or replacement. The distance between the scanner and the Chip required for this last one to be readable is so short that it is basically the same that is needed by a Metal Detector to determine if s/o is in fact carrying a metal object: you basically have to pass through it or have it manually passed on your person. It can not absolutely, positively in any way help detecting a person carrying a gun from the distance.

    •4 – Despite the fact that CHIAPPA issued a press release to U.S. gunwriters regarding the introduction of the RFID Chip in their firearms, the technology will not be available on the U.S. market in the near future (at least not all throughout Y2011), so you people can purchase your CHIAPPA firearms safely for the time being. It will be first introduced in the CHIAPPA products available in Italy, and if it is successful, it will be exported. But there are no signs of this possibility; the company itself has been sumberged with protests and they might rethink their position. The press release was only issued to let gunwriters know how CHIAPPA is “pioneering in this kind of technology despite being a small enterprise”, and has been sent to all gunwriters in CHIAPPA’s mailing list, including myself (and I write IN ITALY, not in the U.S.).

    •5 – The RFID Chip is not permanently embedded, but hot-glued to the frame of the weapon, and can easily be accessed through field-stripping and removed with the tip of a knife without any kind of damage to the functionality of the firearm. The company might even think to add a label indicating the presence of the RFID Chip on the boxes, along with instructions for its removal, although I’d suggest the owner of the firearm to keep the RFID Chip somewhere around even if he/she removes it from the weapon, so that in case of a return to the company (i.e. for repair), he/she might add the chip to the parcel to help the company and the distributors to process their requests faster.

    •6 – There have been rumors about “CHIAPPA being one of the companies that asked, and obtained, a ban on import of ‘Black Rifles’ in Italy”. This is completely false. There is no such ban effective in Italy. The only reason why AMERICAN-MADE “Black Rifles” are now more rare on the Italian civilian market is that the Bush administration has imposed the issuance of a DSP-83 “End-User Certificate” by the Department of State for the export of every single firearm, even civilian-grade, based upon a military firearm (this also applies to military-grade firearm accessories, including some furniture, and several optics, such as mil-dots and holosights). This has led to a contraction for US-EXPORTED “Black Rifles” in Italy as it is not feasible any longer for importers in this Country to keep stocks, since every single piece that enters the Country must be “already sold”. However, “Black Rifles” are still enjoying a high degree of popularity in Italy; we’re simply buying from Germany and China, and starting making our own.

    Please support CHIAPPA. They’re pretty good people, and not the anti-gun (or anti-gun-bending) people you think they are just because they decided to go to a different product tracking technology and their distributor in the US made a PR blunder. If you disagree with their policy regarding the RFID Chip, I suggest you to let them know politely and constructively. As stated before, they are pretty good people, and well opened to customer feedback.

    Regards,
    PIERANGELO TENDAS
    Italy

  • abprosper

    Just as a second thought, if MKS is going to suggest that people go see Conspiracy Theory, they might have picked a better movie suggestion to make their point , just saying.

  • SRMC

    The concern that I have about any suggestion of removing the RFID chip is that it could constitute a violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 and/or state law. If the serial number is contained in the chip, could removal of the chip be considered defacement or removal of the serial number, even if it remains visible elsewhere on the firearm?

  • Pedro C.P.

    Personally I do find this a bit TOO much of paranoia from you guys. So what if “somebody” can detect your chip? The information most of those things carry is a serial number and that’s it, alone it’s useless. They would need to do multiple cross checks just to know what, where, when and who bought something. Yes it’s a way to track you, but there are much easier and practical ways to do the same, specially if they know who you are beforehand, you know so they can actually have a motive to track you.

    It’s much more dangerous to post on this blog, use your cellphone, use your credit card, pay bills online, drive your car, go outside, etc…

  • Doug

    I dont care about the tag. But insult my intelligence for having a valid concern over tracking……… All it would have taken is a simple clarification that it was for inventory purposes only, but no, they insult the customers who have a valid concern. It is a valid concern for someone like me who doesn’t know much about these things and might be concerned with computer chips/tags in a gun. A simple professional response would have clarified it enough that I would have been fine with it.

  • jason

    mks arrogant? try ignorant. all they have succeeded in doing is blackballing their firearms. but at the same time wouldnt scanning for a legally owned chipped firearm carried by a ccdw holder be a violation of privacy. and wouldnt it be an unlawful search as well? unless it was being done at a place authorized to conduct such searches? sounds to me like a a baited debate in the end. the simple thing to do would be too attach the rfid chip to the grip exterior instead of hiding it under the grip. then it would make the paranoia a moot point just peel the chip off like the rfid chip on a dvd or expose it to a stereo magnet.

  • Burst

    Not to be flippant, but… big hairy deal.

    with the amount of time a gun-fanciers spend customizing, repairing and fine tuning their toys, what’s a little knife-fu? I’ll take RFID’ing over outsourcing anyday as a cost cutting measure. (Belize… It’s the Italy of the lower hemisphere)

    As to the wits at MKS, well, they could stand to cut a few costs too.

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    tomaso, you keep claiming that Steve is passing on misinformation. But the fact is, he is not. The press release contains misinformation and ridicule on MKS’ part. That’s what Steve is correctly reporting.

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    There is of course a legitimate concern among firearms owners regarding the actual capabilities and intent of the RFID chip on a firearm.

    We’ve seen legislation in this country that attempts to mandate electronic controls on firearms (despite the nonexistance of any practical devices). And we’ve seen attempts to mandate things like microstamping.

    These historical facts mean that we have a legitimate concern about the real RFID that may show up on firearms here.

  • Pete

    What if RFID chips becomes an industry standard and/or government makes them mandatory? And what if, some day, the government decides to create a network of RFID chip readers in public places connected to some centralized database?

    Would any gun owner like his+gun movements tracked and recorded?

    Dont call people “paranoied” or “tin foilers” just because your mind cannot go beyond the superficial analysis of things.

    Personally i think people should be more paranoied since the West is becoming more and more like the “Brave New World” that Aldous Huxley described…

  • WB

    Just microwave the part for a couple of seconds. Metal’s not that big of a problem, its the surface area. A metal block in a microwave for a few seconds is fine, but a fork will spark like a thunderstorm. Still bad move, but fixable.

  • http://www.securityarms.com/forums Pierangelo Tendas (PT-The Italian Commie)

    I’ve received a response from Mrs. Cinzia Pinzoni out of CHIAPPA… they’re well aware of the blunder and are trying to put a patch on it. BTW, she told me to spread the word: THE RFID CHIP IS NOT MEANT FOR THE U.S. MARKET, but only for the ITALIAN market, to help a small company such as CHIAPPA to ease the manufacturing procedures and cut through the governmental red tape imposed for the authorization to the distribution of firearms on our civilian market. An Italian press release has been more or less accidentally translated into English and spread in the U.S.

  • tomaso

    @SPQR…really…go make a RFID reader and get back to me. …serriously go make one…drive around town and report back on all the info you get.

  • B

    I’ll get one of the 50DS models before they embed the RFID chips in them because I’ve always wanted a Mateba Model 6 Unica. Hell, even if I have to wait until after they do it, I know how to EM pulse it to deactivate it. After that though, MKS can go suck buttercups due to their “awesome” customer relations. /sarcasm
    I dealt with inventory control on a daily basis with one of my businesses I owned. Those RFID chips can be read from several feet away, up to 100 yards, depending on the strength of the transceiver you’re using. This is why WalMart, Target, etc. has the sensors located at all their entrance/exits for loss prevention.
    While standard RFID will not pinpoint location like a GPS module will, it still can relay a hell of a lot of information for whatever is encoded into the RFID. Case in point, there has been at least one family that I know of that has their medical history embedded in them in a RFID tag like they use on pets, and it’s been federally approved for use in humans.
    Not being a tin-foil supporter here, just stating the facts. RFID is useful for the right reasons, but making fun of customer concerns is no way to build a loyal base of buyers.

  • Raph84

    @ Tomaso,

    Then quite whining about it do the research and answer the questions here for everyone to see. Steve relied on facts. You don’t like those facts so you want to call the material he relied on into question.

    So attack the source material from defcon point by point, not Steve.
    Or show yourself for what you really are by continuing to whine and troll the comments.

  • farmboy7.62

    I contacted MKS to express my displeasure in the press release. Charles Brown responded with the following. I think it’s fair to forgive MKS/Chiappa.

    Thomas,

    I appreciate your response to the barcode chip Release that was sent out last week, I am handling each one of the few responses we received individually, I feel if you took the time to contact me and express yourself I should extend the courtesy of responding to you.

    I agree 100% with your observation that the “tin foil” comment sounded and read like we were uncaring pompous asses who did not care about the customers we market to, I like to try to put some humor in all of my releases and the shooting press seems to find it a nice departure from the mundane who-what-where-when contained in most the releases they get, however the intent of the “humor” came thru in a totally different “feel”-(yes we forgot the whole internet thing about how you can’t read inflection or feelings)

    I also try to let all of our releases “sleep” over night and come back in the next day with fresh eyes and take a look at it …unfortunately I did not with this one.

    My family has been in the firearms business since 1953 and I have owned MKS for the last 28 years, always supporting the firearms industry and supporting the preservation of our constitutional rights and being on the watch for erosion of such.

    MKS was one of the charter members of the Heritage fund that has pledged 1% of all of our sales to go toward fighting for our firearms rights, I am an NRA life member and support with cash and donations, thru MKS numerous events, friends of NRA, first shots programs, NSSF, US Sportsman’s alliance..in the 90’s we were one of the first to send donations of cash to the organizations in California fighting for our firearms rights. ect.

    I am hoping that our ACTIONS of the past and future will show through and one comment that was supposed to produce a chuckle (unfortunately made us look like Jackasses) won’t forever hurt the way we are viewed. I guess I should have just re-stated that the glued in easy to find Barcode chip can be easily removed and left it at that.

    Humbly and respectfully yours

    Charles Brown

  • LockeStocknBarrel

    I was considering the Chiappa Rhino for my fiance in .357, shooting .38 special, to reduce felt recoil. Others in the running are Taurus 66, S&W Model 60. This post just got the rhino crossed off the list. Maybe we’ll reconsider if they abandon this RFID nonsense.

  • Matt G.

    I don’t know if you read these steve but I wanted to say thanks for posting this. The RFID doesn’t really bother me, though I don’t like it. But the PR was stupid. I was interested in a rhino simply as a novelty since revolvers really don’t have a place anymore as defensive firearms against two legged pests, but unless they backtrack real fast and apologize for the rude comments of their importer then I doubt I’ll get one. There are plenty of novelty firearms to choose from.

    Please keep us updated on any further developments.

  • armed_partisan

    Pop a Xanax? Why don’t you pop yourself, Anon?

    I’m pretty sure that “Anon” is the guy who wrote this idiotic press release that everyone is calling for to be FIRED, and rightly so.

    Also, Andrew nailed it.

    @ Tomaso: I think I speak for all the rational commentator’s here who are in no way officially associated with TFB when I say “SEE YA! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! GET LOST!”

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    tomaso, I don’t need to. I’ve got actual research in hand regarding the security issues of RFID enabled devices from when I was working in the credit card processing industry and was working on these very issues.

  • http://www.debunkers.org/ SPQR

    PT – the press release contradicts that claim.

    From the Press Release: “THE FACTS: Recently several Italian gun makers (not just Chiappa) decided to utilize RFID technology to improve manufacturing and provide more accurate inventory control. We guarantee this technology will proliferate to other gun makers world wide as it is so efficient for everything from production QC control to export/import varification. Other industries already use passive RFID technology such as on DVDs, sunglasses, clothes and even some food products for example.”

  • carter

    “A Paranoid is someone who knows all the facts.”
    Roger Simon

  • gummywormz

    last time i checked there was nothing wrong with barcodes to track logistics. would probably be alot cheaper too.

  • http://www.30-30.org Blaine

    That frame already has a tracking device. It’s called a serial number. There is no need to apply an RFID chip — unless Chiappa’s employees can’t read.

  • Jimc

    I emailed Charles Brown at MKS and got this reply:

    “I agree we should have never put the tin foil thing in there- we wanted to interject some humor and it turn out looking like a jackass uncaring comment- my family has been in the firearms business since 1953 and I would never intentionally convey the feelings that the tin foil thing looked like-and sounded like – we will continue to support all shooting sports and hopefully our actions will be louder than our words! I usually sleep on a press release and have several people review it prior to release – unfortunately we were under pressure to get this out quickly. -humbly remain. C Brown Jackass of the week!
    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry”

    I say, fair enough! At least he admits to the jackassedness.

    ——————————————————————————–

  • Overthetop

    It is the chip itself that bothers me. Obviously one can remove it. The problem is that having any device like this is just begging for some anti to write legislation REQUIRING the chips to be embedded. Then in a few years requiring that additional information be included on the chip…then a little bit more…and more until it contains information that clearly violates my privacy. Anti’s would love this stuff to be required for all gun manufacturers.

  • Don

    I bought the 1911 22 ,it came with one clip a cheesy one year warranty ,i bought the gun new at gander mountain,the trigger has been a problem from day one,it has feed problems,then to ad insult to injury a month after i bought this gun chiappa upgraded the new 1911s with a new trigger and added a extra clip and extended the warranty to life,i contacted them and mks supply many times via email about how i felt ripped off,this should be a free upgrade to all customers that have bought these guns or atleast the ones that are still within the one year warranty,they have not answered any of my emails,their company is a rip off and mks supply is the same.

  • Don

    The chip is worth more than their guns………..

  • Brian P.

    @Don: First of all, I’m sorry, but it’s a magazine, not a “clip”. Second, their upgrade to their 1911 and your timing in buying one does not really obligate them to upgrade yours, or anyone else’s, for free. If you are having issues with it, though, they may be able to fix it for you. Just don’t expect them to give you an extra magazine, and whatnot.

  • Don

    I dont need a lesson on grammer brian and i dont want anything for free,i want a gun that i paid hard earned money for to work.and when there is a defect with your product it should recalled and fixed for free,a sleeze bag company like chiappa puts the burden on the customer to pay for shipping and the upgrade to a trigger system thats defective and cheaply made.i will not buy anything else from this company…………..

  • Brian P.

    @Don: I wasn’t lecturing you about grammar. I was just telling you that because the use of the term “clip” is frowned upon by many people. And yes, I understand that. I hope they will fix the defective parts for you. I’m just saying that you probably shouldn’t get your hopes up for the parts to be entirely replaced with the upgraded parts. They might just replace them with non-defective older model parts. I’d also be really surprised if they actually gave you an extra magazine, and an extended warranty, too.

  • Don

    I gave up,they never did contact me,im stuck with a junk gun,it would have been nice if they atleast showed enough respect to contact me over the issue.

  • Brian P.

    @Don: Wow, how long ago did you contact them? Have you tried to email them again? You shouldn’t have to settle for a defective product.

  • http://None Chase

    None of my guns have this feature, none of my new guns will have it either.

  • Bart

    Late to this party but wanted to add my two cents.

    I bought their 1892 lever action pistol / mares leg. problems with extraction and feeding from the start. Irratic at best. There is no phone number for Chiappa, and no email address…just the “contact form” on their website which evidently goes directly into their “delete” file.

    Been two weeks and no response as to how to resolve the defects. Three days since my second contact form. still nada.

    These people have zero concern for the customer. Buying a gun from them means you’re on your own. So much for customer ser4vice, integrity, or simple courtesy.

  • RFID does work

    The manufacturers of this gun don’t realize how RFID works. The fact that a RFID chip is “passive” means nothing in terms of readability. All that means is that it does not have an internal power source and has been DESIGNED to be read at short ranges. The short range issue still matters regardless, as handheld RFID readers exist, stores are putting readers in their door way arches, and even smart phones can be adapted for short range read. Regardless, a “passive” chip does not mean that it can’t be read at long ranges. Even if the info on the chip (and there is such a thing as chipless RFID) is not a serial number, it would still likely contain data that would identify it as a firearm, blowing concealed carry.

    Long run, this may also be part of an attempt for high tech trigger locks. The guns will have a matching tech device in a glove the person wears, and if someone tries to pull the trigger on the gun who is not wearing the glove, the gun would not work. If some police officers feel safer with that, so their gun can’t be wrestled away, that is fine. For me, sounds like one more thing that can break or not work when I need to use my weapon for self defense. That does not sound like the case here, the RFID chip is not linked to the gun operating, but gun owners need to understand the ins and outs of RFID.

  • Kyle Devoe

    Man this sucks. Not the RFID thing, it’s that fact that people in this country have become so paranoid that they are going to let something trivial like this destroy a companies business in this country. Really people Chiappa is an outstanding brand and they make quality firearms. As an avid hunter, shooter, firearm owner and card carrying NRA member it really pisses me off that people get so uppity about a company in ITALY putting RFID chips in their guns because its some sort of supposed anti-gun conspiracy for this country! You think these people care about our gun laws? Their a business making a sound business decision. I rest assured that Chiappa isn’t in on some global conspiracy to deprive us of our guns. If it really bothers you so much, like they said, just pry the chip out of the gun when you get it. Or don’t buy one. But please don’t speak on behalf of people that might not share your opinion. Some of us might still want a Chiappa firearm, so don’t ruin it for us.

    • http://www.impact-themes.com WordPress Themes

      People have always been stupid. Hence the warning stickers on hair driers warning morons to stay out of the tub when using it… Someone did it!

    • Barry Obama

      Got tagged during NATO protest with chip gun, quick sharp pain, continued flowing strain of blood coming from wound, circular indented print on my lower left hand palm…shit hurts. Seems like I lost a few hours and just woke up 2-3 hours later too.

      • Brian P.

        Can you please rephrase that in a way that makes sense? I have no idea what you’re saying. What do you mean by “tagged”? How did you get wounded? And what’s this about a circular mark on your hand?

      • Barry Obama

        On may 22, 2011 govn’t agents tagged my hand like a fucking cattle what don’t you understand!

        Chip Implanting – The
        Taking of Free Will
        By Nancy Levant
        The Sierra Times
        4-30-5
         
        In October, 2004, the FDA approved an implantable microchip for use in humans. A tiny subcutaneous RFID tag, now made by several American companies like Applied Digital Solutions, VeriChip, and Digital Angel are mass-producing RFID chips and stocking chip warehouses and implantation centers. Upper level governmental officials are getting “chipped” to demonstrate public acceptance of the technology, and they are very quick to highlight the humanitarian uses of tracking devices in humans.
         
        Children and pets should be chipped in case they get lost. Chipping children will help to locate kidnapped kids. Chipping senior citizens gives hospitals immediate access to their medical records. Many millionaires and their children are chipping themselves for security reasons. Large herds of cattle and sheep are implanted to assist ranchers and farmers with efficient tracking. Security, medical and emergency applications seem to be call of the corporations and their government backers when it comes to the new branding technologies, but for American citizens it is, first and foremost, an outrage, unthinkable, immoral, and for many it is demonic.
         
        RFID technology is everywhere. It’s in the cars that we drive, in the products sold at Wal-Mart, in our cell phones, and in many other applications, but the Digital Angel Chip takes implementation technology to a whole new level of abuse. Digital Angel combined advanced biosensor technology and Web-enabled wireless telecommunications that are linked to Global Positioning Systems. The chip, utilizing advanced biosensor capabilities, can monitor body functions and transmit that data anywhere in the world while giving out accurate location information to a ground station or monitoring facility. If that is not the death of privacy, what is? If corporations can monitor our body functions and our locations, twenty-four hours a day and year after year, then what is privacy?
         
        Now let’s add to the Verichips the other biometric technologies which identify humans by unique biological or physical characteristics, such as fingerprints, voiceprints, retina characteristics, and face recognition points – all this multi-billion dollar technology to safeguard millionaires, to track lost children and pets, to track child molesters, and to help seniors? If you believe that, then I’ve got some wetland to sell you in a Biosphere Reserve –
         
        Always remember this – RFID technology was created and tested prior to 9-11, and 9-11 has been the primary excuse for human tracking. And laughingly, so has illegal immigration, which clearly is not illegal as our borders are to remain open.
         
        It is time for all American citizens to stop with the naivety. It is time to recognize a government that is deviously linked to and in bed with corporations who intend to rule over all human beings. And please remember that social security cards were never meant to be mandatory. Nor were driver’s licenses or bankcards, but try getting by one day without them. Banking is slated to become a totally RFID operation with chips implanted into the hands of those with bank accounts. Try getting by without a bank account when you send your bill payments to account centers across the country. And also keep in mind that the U.S. postal service is also in the process of RFID Smart-Mail tracking.
         
        The writing is on the wall – again – and the writing clearly states that our government does not serve the well being of its citizens, but rather the intentions of corporations, databases, and law enforcement. Equally, our schools have partnered with RFID corporations as many school children now wear mandatory RFID tags in schools. Remember that schools are government institutions, so requiring students to wear tracking devices is a governmental mandate. Will this technology be mandated for right our right to drive? For our right to buy and sell? For our right to receive medical treatment? For our right to travel? For our Right to buy gasoline? Take a wild guess.
         
        And gun owners – heads up! On April 13, 2004, Applied Digital Solutions announced that its wholly owned subsidiary, VeriChip Corporation, has entered into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with FN Manufacturing, a leading gun manufacturer, to develop a first in the world of firearms. Their objective is an integrated” User Authorization System” for firearms using VeriChip RFID technology. You shall be chipped in order to keep and bear. You had to know that was coming considering the 30-year, non-stop efforts to deny you of your 2nd Amendment rights. (A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.)
         
        Little known is also the global aspect of RFID chipping technology and efforts. Mexico is on a mission to chip all children due to a high rate of kidnappings. Subdermal personal verification technology is being used in Russia, Switzerland, China, Ecuador, Italy, Spain, Argentine, Canada, Paraguay, Uruguay, Brazil, Germany, England, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Africa, South Korea, on and on and on.
         
        RFID and chipping industries include banks, gas stations, hospitals, social security numbers and drivers’ licenses, passports, schools, military including our soldiers and our enemies, automobiles, telephones and cell phones, televisions, computer systems, prisons, schools, pre-schools, government, all work places and corporations, bars, restaurants, country clubs and other private clubs – or, in other words, it’s everywhere, but like all the other global infrastructures that were slid beneath us by our government and its corporations, RFID technology and human chipping is mostly blacked-out via media so that we do not know their truth and the horrible extent of that truth.
         
        I beg of you, my dear American people, do not spend one more day ignoring what you know to be true. America is being conquered from within, as so many have said would, in fact, occur. Can you not see that there is a mad rush to implement the final structures necessary to recreate America, our beliefs and values, our Constitutional Rights, and to take every ounce of our privacy? Connect all the dots you see in America – all the changes and daily dismissal of our voting rights under Memorandums of Understanding, NGOs, stakeholding groups, councils, and other consensus operations.
         
        Besides our lives, perhaps the most important gift from our Maker is the gift of free will, for without it we are unable to pass life’s tests. Without free will, we are nothing more than robotic creatures that must respond as mandated by enslavers and their technologies. If we become implanted people, we are enslaved people – mind, body, and soul. You cannot take free will from people and call it progress, science, or protection. You can only call it anti-God, which is, of course, the ultimate goal.
         

      • Brian P.

        Ok, sorry, I didn’t know you were talking about that kind of chip. Hell, I thought that kind of shit was illegal. From the sound of it, I doubt they had your consent to tag you with one of these chips.

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  • Tom Currie

    MKS was off target in their press release — they assumed TOO MUCH intelligence and common sense on the part of bloggers (including TFB!) and the firearms press. For all of Steve’s misinformed jabbering about the possibility of detecting RFID chips at longer distances, the bottom line is that there is NO technology that would identify an individual as carrying this specific kind of RFID chip at any worthwhile distance — even if someone bothered to build a high powered transmitter to trigger the chip and an adequately sensitive receiver, the best they could accomplish would be knowing that the chip was SOMEWHERE within the range of the device. They still could not locate the chip any more accurately that the range of the device. Build a device that detects the chip at 20 feet, and all you know is that there is a chip somewhere within 20 feet of the detector. Build a device that detects the chip at 100 feet, and all you know is that there is a chip somewhere within 100 feet of the detector. RFID chips in firearms may be an emotional hot-button for some people but as a practical point it is meaningless.

  • jimmyjet

    MKS Arms. Arrogant bastards! It would seem quite possible that the company is run by a bunch of jerks that have no concern for the 2A and couldn’t give a damn if all guns were confiscated by their Democrat friends.
    If it ever becomes the “In thing” to install RFID devices in firearms, they will be definitely I.D’d. beyond 3-Inches.
    The Attorney General right now is jumping up and down saying “Ooooh, ooooh, why didn’t I think of that, (right before he gets a phone call from Obongo saying, “Why the hell didn’t you think of that?).