A reader emailed me this cool photo of the FN HAMR, equipped with a 150 round Armatac SAW-MAG, in all its glory. Apparently, the rifle operated in open-bolt mode in both semi and full auto if the temperature is to hot. Interesting.
LordStickMax, also made a video showing many of the guns, including the HAMR, and other military weaponary that was on display at the show.
If anyone else has photos from the show, please pass them onto me.
Martin,
150 bullets will take up space…that’s the law of physics… Belt fed is nice, but in a stressful situation, it can be hazardous and time-consuming… Fortunately, for instance, FN has simplified the feeding on, say, the improved SAW model from FNH, by having feeding lips, but you still waste a second or two… The idea behind the IAR is to have SAW-like capabilities in a lighter package with magazine-fed Drums…
The materials are lighter now, especially in the polymer age, and from what I have seen, they DO work mainly because of the mechanical system itself…
They seem to be capable of taking abuse and they seem to be effective…
One thing is for sure, 30-round magazines is ludicrous for a SAW-like gun… It would spend all rounds in less than 3 seconds on rapid fire… And these weapons are supposed to be for suppression, namely spray bullets to keep the enemy down while your team goes for cover… I mean, the SAW can use AR mags as well, but the sheer size and weight is very cumbersome for the operator…
But again, if you want to have a weapon firing 150 bullets, you will always have to WEAR them, if you know what I mean! Even with polymer PMags, you still have the weight of the bullets to account for, the same happening whether you are using a ARMATAC SAW-MAG or a normal Belt-fed MAG…
Cheers!
0 
0Rijoenpial, the problem is that the reliability of these big magazines is not good. Either the Army or Marines tried them over in Iraq or Afghanistan a while back and the soldiers did not like them. The Marines ended up dropping the drum magazine requirement from the IAR specs.
0 0I don’t think I’ll ever like, or trust, AR drum magazines. Aside from being prone to malfunction, they’re so damn bulky. Seriously, that huge thing only holds 150 rounds. That’s only 5 straight mags worth, yet it’s as big as about 15 mags.
Belt fed rules.
0 0@ Lordstickmax
I hope not the H&K and Colt designs are much much better.
0 0@lance
I think colt is staying competitive when it comes to ar15 optimization. However, i think the scar has got a good lead right now.
0 0im still waiting for that tank from xxx state of the union XD
0 0The reliability of the BETA mag has been an issue, all drums are not created the same, it would be like saying all cars are the same becasue they have 4 wheels, the Saw-Mag is a “dual ultimax” like drum. The ultimax drum itself didn’t have any real issues and this is an improved and dual version, the dual makes it feed twice as fast and therefore more efficient. The tests you are referring to were done with the BETA, there is a published release from the Wexford Group.
0 0Steve, did they try both the C-MAG and the ARMATAC one?
If they both failed testing, then the IAR is a joke, period! The idea of a full-auto 30-round AR is a ludicrous concept…
They would be much better off having the M4 in full-auto…
I was under the impression that the SAW-MAG was reliable… oh well… back to the drawing board, I guess…!
The idea that the IAR is just a mere pretext to have the HK416 back into inventory starts to get more potent in my mind!…
Thanks for the info, Steve…As always, I appreciate it…
Cheers!
0 0Rijoenpial, I cannot remember what they tried.
0 0Size and weight
The Ultimax dominates the weight game but the size of the drums independently are larger when compared to belted ammo,
Which is more likely to break? shutting the top cover on a bolt forward belt gun can make a quick mess of a once nice gun.
Busting a drum, get another one, or a 30 rd box mag, the General Dynamics version of the Ultimax had the mag well, but to run the drum then was an issue.
Would it be better off to have a dual purpose(rifleman, support) system operate with the most standard proven magazine ever, the 30 rder, and switch to a much larger capacity when the situation is needed, or have them switch to a 50 or 60 rd magazine that is the only mode of fire that is a box magazine designed just like the BETA but vertical and straight, which would also benefit in reliability with the addition of graphite lubricant because of the converging of multiple row into one, (this is a great property of fluids not mechanics) .
0 0Hello there, guys!
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this here or elsewhere, but I didn’t realise the HAMR had a dust cover like the M4!
Here you can see it clearer when it’s closed:
http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/FN_HAMR-16_Rifle_Carbine_1_small.jpg
Actually, I noticed it first on the FNH military promo video, but just got it confirmed once I got to see it in bigger resolution with the dust cover closed!
Just another interesting thing about the FNH HAMR…
Cheers!
0 0Yeah, really a 50-round box is a good mix between the speed of a thirty-round mag and a 100-round belt for a rifle intended to be used mainly on full auto; the thirty rounder is going to not last very long (then again, the notion that machine gunners just spray blindly is war movie hysteria-they shoot in controlled bursts) and the 100-round belt is hideously slow to reload.
A fifty-round magazine gives you about eight six or seven round bursts (the average for a SAW burst) without compromising the quick reload or light weight.
Drums, IMO are just overly bulky. Even the well-designed Ultimax drum honestly destroys ammunition carrying capacity by it’s size. You can fit two 100-round belts in a SAW pouch; the Ultimax drum gives you literally half that.
I’d say this just all goes to show that belted ammo is a bad idea for a weapon intended to be used in a maneuver, rather than support, role. Yes, you get alot of firepower, but you accept alot of tradeoffs to get that.
0 0There was no submission with high cap magazines from anyone, It would have been too difficult to test guns and feed devices. The Saw-Mag didn’t exist in the beginning of the IAR testing. The IAR tests were done with a 30 rd magazine.
0 0I beleave the both Beta and AMATAC where tested and both finnished simularly in testing. Betas are better but require cleaning and lubracation alot to be relighable in the the field.
0 0@RN
Dont worry 90% of these weapons never get adopted. Most is for show of technology.
0 0Honestly Ive never gotten scared by military tech but this show kind of intimidated me alot
0 0@T800: Except that the XM-8 doesn’t work. Which is why it was cancelled. :p
0 0Hot damn, where can I get that Dillon Aero poster at 0:06?
0 0Steve: I believe you’ll find that the drum is the Armatac SAW-MAG, not the Beta C-Mag
0 0Daniel, thanks. I defer to you in such matters 
0 0off topic kind of, but in that video, Hk’s got a video play of the Xm8, why would they do this? Maybe are they going to try to push that again as the new carbine, along with the Hk416?
0 0@ eric
maybe they are trying to push the XM8 as a 100% tested and working future rifle, as opposed to the other future rifle which have barely seen combat (save maybe for the SCAR).
0 0Sweet new armatac mag.
http://www.armatac.com/sawmagBACK.jpg
Glad to see the fiberglass/composite models are out now. Half the cost of the old machined-aluminum ones.
0 0T800
Even Steve told me any one can have a stand a AUSA. There is no Army competition for a IAR so the HAMR is there just to promote the FN line of weapons remember Colt is there too.
With over 37,000 M-4A1s and alot more conversion kits coming our I doubt the Army will chose a new carbine soon.
0 0actually eric the guns that were displayed were 416s and 417s. i would have freaked if i could have held an xm8.
0 0At LordstickMax
You think the Colt or the 416 was the most popular there what was your favorite there?
0 0awesome. its so cool to be on here. i read this blog everyday.
0 0I saw alot of guns new and old some like the MP-7 and the P-90 the military has nothing to do with in adopting them there just showing offf there technology.
0 0In the 2nd video at 2:12 there’s looks like FN also have a improved M-16A4 displayed too very interesting.
0 0aww man. i preferred to think of these like the gun show in Lord of war where every weapon was displayed by a beautiful bikini clad Russian woman
0 0
Hello there, guys!
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this here or elsewhere, but I didn’t realise the HAMR had a dust cover like the M4!
Here you can see it clearer when it’s closed:
http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/FN_HAMR-16_Rifle_Carbine_1_small.jpg
Actually, I noticed it first on the FNH military promo video, but just got it confirmed once I got to see it in bigger resolution with the dust cover closed!
Just another interesting thing about the FNH HAMR…
Cheers!
Size and weight
The Ultimax dominates the weight game but the size of the drums independently are larger when compared to belted ammo,
Which is more likely to break? shutting the top cover on a bolt forward belt gun can make a quick mess of a once nice gun.
Busting a drum, get another one, or a 30 rd box mag, the General Dynamics version of the Ultimax had the mag well, but to run the drum then was an issue.
Would it be better off to have a dual purpose(rifleman, support) system operate with the most standard proven magazine ever, the 30 rder, and switch to a much larger capacity when the situation is needed, or have them switch to a 50 or 60 rd magazine that is the only mode of fire that is a box magazine designed just like the BETA but vertical and straight, which would also benefit in reliability with the addition of graphite lubricant because of the converging of multiple row into one, (this is a great property of fluids not mechanics) .
Yeah, really a 50-round box is a good mix between the speed of a thirty-round mag and a 100-round belt for a rifle intended to be used mainly on full auto; the thirty rounder is going to not last very long (then again, the notion that machine gunners just spray blindly is war movie hysteria-they shoot in controlled bursts) and the 100-round belt is hideously slow to reload.
A fifty-round magazine gives you about eight six or seven round bursts (the average for a SAW burst) without compromising the quick reload or light weight.
Drums, IMO are just overly bulky. Even the well-designed Ultimax drum honestly destroys ammunition carrying capacity by it’s size. You can fit two 100-round belts in a SAW pouch; the Ultimax drum gives you literally half that.
I’d say this just all goes to show that belted ammo is a bad idea for a weapon intended to be used in a maneuver, rather than support, role. Yes, you get alot of firepower, but you accept alot of tradeoffs to get that.
There was no submission with high cap magazines from anyone, It would have been too difficult to test guns and feed devices. The Saw-Mag didn’t exist in the beginning of the IAR testing. The IAR tests were done with a 30 rd magazine.
I beleave the both Beta and AMATAC where tested and both finnished simularly in testing. Betas are better but require cleaning and lubracation alot to be relighable in the the field.
Steve, did they try both the C-MAG and the ARMATAC one?
If they both failed testing, then the IAR is a joke, period! The idea of a full-auto 30-round AR is a ludicrous concept…
They would be much better off having the M4 in full-auto…
I was under the impression that the SAW-MAG was reliable… oh well… back to the drawing board, I guess…!
The idea that the IAR is just a mere pretext to have the HK416 back into inventory starts to get more potent in my mind!…
Thanks for the info, Steve…As always, I appreciate it…
Cheers!
Rijoenpial, I cannot remember what they tried.
The reliability of the BETA mag has been an issue, all drums are not created the same, it would be like saying all cars are the same becasue they have 4 wheels, the Saw-Mag is a “dual ultimax” like drum. The ultimax drum itself didn’t have any real issues and this is an improved and dual version, the dual makes it feed twice as fast and therefore more efficient. The tests you are referring to were done with the BETA, there is a published release from the Wexford Group.
Martin,
150 bullets will take up space…that’s the law of physics… Belt fed is nice, but in a stressful situation, it can be hazardous and time-consuming… Fortunately, for instance, FN has simplified the feeding on, say, the improved SAW model from FNH, by having feeding lips, but you still waste a second or two… The idea behind the IAR is to have SAW-like capabilities in a lighter package with magazine-fed Drums…
The materials are lighter now, especially in the polymer age, and from what I have seen, they DO work mainly because of the mechanical system itself…
They seem to be capable of taking abuse and they seem to be effective…
One thing is for sure, 30-round magazines is ludicrous for a SAW-like gun… It would spend all rounds in less than 3 seconds on rapid fire… And these weapons are supposed to be for suppression, namely spray bullets to keep the enemy down while your team goes for cover… I mean, the SAW can use AR mags as well, but the sheer size and weight is very cumbersome for the operator…
But again, if you want to have a weapon firing 150 bullets, you will always have to WEAR them, if you know what I mean! Even with polymer PMags, you still have the weight of the bullets to account for, the same happening whether you are using a ARMATAC SAW-MAG or a normal Belt-fed MAG…
Cheers!
Rijoenpial, the problem is that the reliability of these big magazines is not good. Either the Army or Marines tried them over in Iraq or Afghanistan a while back and the soldiers did not like them. The Marines ended up dropping the drum magazine requirement from the IAR specs.
I don’t think I’ll ever like, or trust, AR drum magazines. Aside from being prone to malfunction, they’re so damn bulky. Seriously, that huge thing only holds 150 rounds. That’s only 5 straight mags worth, yet it’s as big as about 15 mags.
Belt fed rules.
@ Lordstickmax
I hope not the H&K and Colt designs are much much better.
im still waiting for that tank from xxx state of the union XD
@lance
I think colt is staying competitive when it comes to ar15 optimization. However, i think the scar has got a good lead right now.
@RN
Dont worry 90% of these weapons never get adopted. Most is for show of technology.
Honestly Ive never gotten scared by military tech but this show kind of intimidated me alot
At LordstickMax
You think the Colt or the 416 was the most popular there what was your favorite there?
actually eric the guns that were displayed were 416s and 417s. i would have freaked if i could have held an xm8.
awesome. its so cool to be on here. i read this blog everyday.
I saw alot of guns new and old some like the MP-7 and the P-90 the military has nothing to do with in adopting them there just showing offf there technology.
In the 2nd video at 2:12 there’s looks like FN also have a improved M-16A4 displayed too very interesting.
T800
Even Steve told me any one can have a stand a AUSA. There is no Army competition for a IAR so the HAMR is there just to promote the FN line of weapons remember Colt is there too.
With over 37,000 M-4A1s and alot more conversion kits coming our I doubt the Army will chose a new carbine soon.
Sweet new armatac mag.
http://www.armatac.com/sawmagBACK.jpg
Glad to see the fiberglass/composite models are out now. Half the cost of the old machined-aluminum ones.
Hot damn, where can I get that Dillon Aero poster at 0:06?
@T800: Except that the XM-8 doesn’t work. Which is why it was cancelled. :p
Steve: I believe you’ll find that the drum is the Armatac SAW-MAG, not the Beta C-Mag
Daniel, thanks. I defer to you in such matters
@ eric
maybe they are trying to push the XM8 as a 100% tested and working future rifle, as opposed to the other future rifle which have barely seen combat (save maybe for the SCAR).
off topic kind of, but in that video, Hk’s got a video play of the Xm8, why would they do this? Maybe are they going to try to push that again as the new carbine, along with the Hk416?
aww man. i preferred to think of these like the gun show in Lord of war where every weapon was displayed by a beautiful bikini clad Russian woman