Introduced in Italy in 2004, the Beretta U22 Neos Carbine Kit has finally made its way stateside.
The kit includes a 16" barrel (1:16 twist), forend, stock (which replaces pistol grip), weaver rail, adjustable aperture rear sight and TruGlo front sight. No gunsmithing is needed to install it.
The Kit will retail for about $280. Not cheap!
What damn difference does a stock make? This is completely incomprehensible. So before you had a pistol, but the fear is that you will have a stock on it which will make it… more concealable? Than the full size rifle, yes, but not moreso than the damn pistol!
1 
0Saw one at Fin Feather Fur in Ashland Ohio today. It wasn’t for sale, just on display. They said the rep had just dropped off. Notsure ehat the deal is, but it above looking piece.
0 0I’ve been updating my “email me as soon as you’re selling the carbine kit” information with Beretta for years now and still haven’t heard anything from them on it.
I can’t find it at Bud’s and MidwayUSA still has it listed as perpetually “expected one month from today”.
Does anyone *really* have them?
0 0I remember a few years ago, it wasn’t too hard to find a “carbine kit” for a 1911. For the most part, it was a stock and a 16″ barrel. Still, caution is well founded. By federal regulation, using the new stock with the original (pistol) barrel could be construed as using a SBR.
Some of you that are as ancient as I may remember a similar fiasco when Thompson/Center chambered a smooth-bore barrel that chambered the .410 shotgun round for the Contender pistol. It was soon declared a sawed-off shotgun by the feds. T/C then started rifling the barrel and added a “clip-on choke” that was supposed to negate the damaging effect of shot being launched through rifling. The same rule applies.
It looks like a lot of fun, but my advice is this: When using a conversion kit, use both parts or use neither.
0 0Saw one of these kits when I got my U22 in Findlay OH. the price was something like 240 bucks which is more than I paid for my pistol got it at a steal at 224 so they are out there but expensive.
0 0Some of you are missing the point when you bring up DIY AR-15 pistols. In that case, the lower receiver is registered as a generic firearm, not a pistol (or rifle). Beretta’s claim is that since it was originally and explicitly registered as a pistol (not a firearm, not a rifle), going back to a pistol from a rifle configuration is still fine.
Given that they delayed the release of this kit for like five years dealing with the BATFE, I’d like to believe they’re telling me the truth when they say that it’s legal to take off and make a pistol again…
The Neos is a seriously under-appreciated .22LR pistol – hopefully this will give it some much-needed attention.
0 0i go my kit two weeks ago and truly love it.very acc,ltw,and eats it wants. compact sights in quick,and youth friendly. i give two thumbs up. by the way ,once you convert to carbine you might keep it in that mode,because its too fun to shoot.
0 0The weight of the carbine configuration is 3.8 lbs. Just posted a review with specs/photos;
http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/review-beretta-u22-neos-carbine-kit/
0 0to be honest never new much about the neos my aunt had one and when she past away i bought it off my uncle for $125 with no intentions on every shooting it… like any other fire arm that didnt last. me and my wife both just absolutely love it we have a total of about 15 guns and we play with the neos more than any of them. i just found out about the conversion kit legal or not i just got to have it!!!!
0 0Andy,
It’s about 4lbs. I haven’t weighted it to be exact, but right around that – very light. I will also stow the stock/rifle barrel in a pack. When I had it at the range I needed to adjust the windage but it had loc-tite and I didn’t have the right screw driver, so I can’t judge open sights yet. I put a cheap 3-9x scope on it and got good groups with cheap bulk ammo. Had 4-5 FTF out of ~250 rounds (Winchester, none with Federal, all bulk stuff). In a week or so I’ll do a full review, with weight, and link back to this post.
0 0I had the BATF type questions crop up several times over the years, ar-15 pistols, and of course the contender situation as mentioned above. Here is how I “heard” the BATF ruling: it depends on how the gun is initially registered. If bought as a rifle, cant “cut down” to pistol. But can make pistol into rifle… Shortest barrel for a rifle/longarm (rifled, not smooth bore) is 16.” As alluded to above, dont pull any bs.. dont shoot it with the stock and short barrel etc.. and you will be fine.
0 0How much does the neos weigh with the kit. I am interested in a pistol that can convert to a rifle for backpacking but total weight is a big configuration. I like the neos but if it weighs too much I may have to see how kel tec’s pmr30 works out. I think they expect to produce a similar kit for it.
0 0Legal in theory, but debatable in practice. This is a widely argued topic.
In the Thompson case, the ATF basically claimed that constructive intent can be demonstrated by having parts which any one combination of parts (pistol grip, stock, short barrel, and long barrel) could create a SBR. The court essentially decided that contructive intent is present when the *only* possible combination would create a SBR.
The ATF currently maintains that the Thompson decision only applies to the Thompson and not similar situations (an overly narrow interpretation, no surprise there). They also maintain that the Thompson case was in regard to the legality of possessing the combination of parts and not the act of switching back and forth (again, the narrowest possible interpretation).
Although the ATF uses a very narrow interpretation, there is not currently any legal case to explicitly contradict their view. Further, the ATF is known for making arbitrary rulings and there is essentially no way to appeal or challenge their rulings. (Appealing the ATF to the ATF has predictable outcomes). See the Akins Accelerator case. ATF reworded the NFA and applied it to a device that clearly did not technically meet the definition of a machine gun. Also see the Olofson case. And see the shoestring machinegun (they partially reversed themselves a few years ago on the shoestring to end the mockery).
Sorry Steve, I know I’m getting a bit political here.
0 0Erwos,
Did you have to go and post the price? Its dangerous enough visiting here – now you’re making me spend $ 200 on one of these. :d
Thanks for the tip and thanks to Steve for this information. My wife likes plinking but not hunting and this is a nice little kit for her. She has a Marlin Model 60 which she likes but you can;t have too many 22s as every gun owner knows!
0 0Erwos, there is actually some settled case law on this, specifically United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company. If you Google the case name, you should find the wikipedia entry, and also an informative article on Stephen Halbrook’s website, who argued the case. I’m not going to post a link for fear that the spam filter will swallow my comment, but check it out for yourself.
0 0Not according to my ATF local Office (San Antonio). They quoted some regulation that this would NOT be legal, as a pistol can be turned into a rifle (all rifle rules apply) but it is illegal to turn a rifle into a pistol.
My initial call was because I wanted to get a MPA10T-A and a 45 Caliber Rifle Conversion Kit. The agent let me know that that may put me in jeopardy as “I would have the parts in my possession to “Make” a SBR (upper swap)” and added the above information.
So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh?
0 0I guess the tricky part is to always remember to put the long barrel on first, than switch the stock. Because the stock without the long barrel would surely require you to have a tax stamp as SBR.
0 0I was curious about that myself. If They can market this does that mean I can put a 16 in barrell on an ar pistol and add a stock and still be within the law?
0 0yep, it legal. Just don’t sell the barrel and keep the stock. AFT will knocking down doors if you do that.
0 0I have a Beretta U22 Neos and I have to say, it is perhaps the most reliable .22 autoloader I have ever owned. I love the odd looking little pistol. It shoots as straight as a laser beam and it has been flawless since day-1. If I can grab this kit from my FFL guy for $150 I will buy it in a heartbeat. I sold my 10-22 and Rem 597 (the latter of which was pure junk BTW) so right now I only have .22 bolt rifles (CZ and Savage) and this kit would make it a great little backyard plinker for lazy Sundays.
0 0It is legal…as long as you put the barrel on first. Seriously, don’t put the rifle stock on it when it still has a pistol length barrel and then forget to finish the conversion.
0 0I don’t think you could change something like this back to a rifle. The ATF has a policy of once a rifle always a rifle. For example an AR lower receiver that was used to make a target rifle could not be used to make a pistol later. There may be a way to change it legally, but it probably costs $200.
0 0So how does one go about not breaking the NFA with this? The ATF claims that US vs T/C only applies to that specific model. Would we need a ruling on this product from them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson/Center_Arms_Company
0 0The explanation I’ve always been given, as ridiculous as this sounds, is that it’s fine to change a pistol to a rifle and then back to a pistol. But if it was a rifle in the first place, changing it to a pistol is illegal.
Yet another “common sense” gun law.
0 0THIS-IS-AWESOME!!! I totally bought a Neos to turn it into a rifle. It’s a cool little pistol. I gave up that dream when I heard the BATFE was trying to say it had to be either a Rifle or a Pistol and couldn’t be both, or some such nonsense. I’m glad it’s finally out there.
0 0Buds has it for $200, IIRC. Still a bit of a tricky sell (that’s as much as a complete 10/22), but slightly better.
I emailed Beretta about the legality of the whole pistol to rifle to pistol thing, and they seemed to claim that since it was a registered pistol frame, you were fine. Hard to believe they’d release something like this without BATFE approval, and the manual doesn’t mention anything about it being a one-way trip to rifle, so make of that as you will.
0 0
to be honest never new much about the neos my aunt had one and when she past away i bought it off my uncle for $125 with no intentions on every shooting it… like any other fire arm that didnt last. me and my wife both just absolutely love it we have a total of about 15 guns and we play with the neos more than any of them. i just found out about the conversion kit legal or not i just got to have it!!!!
The weight of the carbine configuration is 3.8 lbs. Just posted a review with specs/photos;
http://suburbansurvivalist.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/review-beretta-u22-neos-carbine-kit/
Andy,
It’s about 4lbs. I haven’t weighted it to be exact, but right around that – very light. I will also stow the stock/rifle barrel in a pack. When I had it at the range I needed to adjust the windage but it had loc-tite and I didn’t have the right screw driver, so I can’t judge open sights yet. I put a cheap 3-9x scope on it and got good groups with cheap bulk ammo. Had 4-5 FTF out of ~250 rounds (Winchester, none with Federal, all bulk stuff). In a week or so I’ll do a full review, with weight, and link back to this post.
I had the BATF type questions crop up several times over the years, ar-15 pistols, and of course the contender situation as mentioned above. Here is how I “heard” the BATF ruling: it depends on how the gun is initially registered. If bought as a rifle, cant “cut down” to pistol. But can make pistol into rifle… Shortest barrel for a rifle/longarm (rifled, not smooth bore) is 16.” As alluded to above, dont pull any bs.. dont shoot it with the stock and short barrel etc.. and you will be fine.
How much does the neos weigh with the kit. I am interested in a pistol that can convert to a rifle for backpacking but total weight is a big configuration. I like the neos but if it weighs too much I may have to see how kel tec’s pmr30 works out. I think they expect to produce a similar kit for it.
i go my kit two weeks ago and truly love it.very acc,ltw,and eats it wants. compact sights in quick,and youth friendly. i give two thumbs up. by the way ,once you convert to carbine you might keep it in that mode,because its too fun to shoot.
Saw one of these kits when I got my U22 in Findlay OH. the price was something like 240 bucks which is more than I paid for my pistol got it at a steal at 224 so they are out there but expensive.
Saw one at Fin Feather Fur in Ashland Ohio today. It wasn’t for sale, just on display. They said the rep had just dropped off. Notsure ehat the deal is, but it above looking piece.
I’ve been updating my “email me as soon as you’re selling the carbine kit” information with Beretta for years now and still haven’t heard anything from them on it.
I can’t find it at Bud’s and MidwayUSA still has it listed as perpetually “expected one month from today”.
Does anyone *really* have them?
Some of you are missing the point when you bring up DIY AR-15 pistols. In that case, the lower receiver is registered as a generic firearm, not a pistol (or rifle). Beretta’s claim is that since it was originally and explicitly registered as a pistol (not a firearm, not a rifle), going back to a pistol from a rifle configuration is still fine.
Given that they delayed the release of this kit for like five years dealing with the BATFE, I’d like to believe they’re telling me the truth when they say that it’s legal to take off and make a pistol again…
The Neos is a seriously under-appreciated .22LR pistol – hopefully this will give it some much-needed attention.
I remember a few years ago, it wasn’t too hard to find a “carbine kit” for a 1911. For the most part, it was a stock and a 16″ barrel. Still, caution is well founded. By federal regulation, using the new stock with the original (pistol) barrel could be construed as using a SBR.
Some of you that are as ancient as I may remember a similar fiasco when Thompson/Center chambered a smooth-bore barrel that chambered the .410 shotgun round for the Contender pistol. It was soon declared a sawed-off shotgun by the feds. T/C then started rifling the barrel and added a “clip-on choke” that was supposed to negate the damaging effect of shot being launched through rifling. The same rule applies.
It looks like a lot of fun, but my advice is this: When using a conversion kit, use both parts or use neither.
What damn difference does a stock make? This is completely incomprehensible. So before you had a pistol, but the fear is that you will have a stock on it which will make it… more concealable? Than the full size rifle, yes, but not moreso than the damn pistol!
Legal in theory, but debatable in practice. This is a widely argued topic.
In the Thompson case, the ATF basically claimed that constructive intent can be demonstrated by having parts which any one combination of parts (pistol grip, stock, short barrel, and long barrel) could create a SBR. The court essentially decided that contructive intent is present when the *only* possible combination would create a SBR.
The ATF currently maintains that the Thompson decision only applies to the Thompson and not similar situations (an overly narrow interpretation, no surprise there). They also maintain that the Thompson case was in regard to the legality of possessing the combination of parts and not the act of switching back and forth (again, the narrowest possible interpretation).
Although the ATF uses a very narrow interpretation, there is not currently any legal case to explicitly contradict their view. Further, the ATF is known for making arbitrary rulings and there is essentially no way to appeal or challenge their rulings. (Appealing the ATF to the ATF has predictable outcomes). See the Akins Accelerator case. ATF reworded the NFA and applied it to a device that clearly did not technically meet the definition of a machine gun. Also see the Olofson case. And see the shoestring machinegun (they partially reversed themselves a few years ago on the shoestring to end the mockery).
Sorry Steve, I know I’m getting a bit political here.
I don’t think you could change something like this back to a rifle. The ATF has a policy of once a rifle always a rifle. For example an AR lower receiver that was used to make a target rifle could not be used to make a pistol later. There may be a way to change it legally, but it probably costs $200.
So how does one go about not breaking the NFA with this? The ATF claims that US vs T/C only applies to that specific model. Would we need a ruling on this product from them?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson/Center_Arms_Company
The explanation I’ve always been given, as ridiculous as this sounds, is that it’s fine to change a pistol to a rifle and then back to a pistol. But if it was a rifle in the first place, changing it to a pistol is illegal.
Yet another “common sense” gun law.
THIS-IS-AWESOME!!! I totally bought a Neos to turn it into a rifle. It’s a cool little pistol. I gave up that dream when I heard the BATFE was trying to say it had to be either a Rifle or a Pistol and couldn’t be both, or some such nonsense. I’m glad it’s finally out there.
It is legal…as long as you put the barrel on first. Seriously, don’t put the rifle stock on it when it still has a pistol length barrel and then forget to finish the conversion.
I have a Beretta U22 Neos and I have to say, it is perhaps the most reliable .22 autoloader I have ever owned. I love the odd looking little pistol. It shoots as straight as a laser beam and it has been flawless since day-1. If I can grab this kit from my FFL guy for $150 I will buy it in a heartbeat. I sold my 10-22 and Rem 597 (the latter of which was pure junk BTW) so right now I only have .22 bolt rifles (CZ and Savage) and this kit would make it a great little backyard plinker for lazy Sundays.
Erwos, there is actually some settled case law on this, specifically United States v. Thompson-Center Arms Company. If you Google the case name, you should find the wikipedia entry, and also an informative article on Stephen Halbrook’s website, who argued the case. I’m not going to post a link for fear that the spam filter will swallow my comment, but check it out for yourself.
Erwos,
Did you have to go and post the price? Its dangerous enough visiting here – now you’re making me spend $ 200 on one of these. :d
Thanks for the tip and thanks to Steve for this information. My wife likes plinking but not hunting and this is a nice little kit for her. She has a Marlin Model 60 which she likes but you can;t have too many 22s as every gun owner knows!
Not according to my ATF local Office (San Antonio). They quoted some regulation that this would NOT be legal, as a pistol can be turned into a rifle (all rifle rules apply) but it is illegal to turn a rifle into a pistol.
My initial call was because I wanted to get a MPA10T-A and a 45 Caliber Rifle Conversion Kit. The agent let me know that that may put me in jeopardy as “I would have the parts in my possession to “Make” a SBR (upper swap)” and added the above information.
So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh?
I guess the tricky part is to always remember to put the long barrel on first, than switch the stock. Because the stock without the long barrel would surely require you to have a tax stamp as SBR.
I was curious about that myself. If They can market this does that mean I can put a 16 in barrell on an ar pistol and add a stock and still be within the law?
yep, it legal. Just don’t sell the barrel and keep the stock. AFT will knocking down doors if you do that.
Buds has it for $200, IIRC. Still a bit of a tricky sell (that’s as much as a complete 10/22), but slightly better.
I emailed Beretta about the legality of the whole pistol to rifle to pistol thing, and they seemed to claim that since it was a registered pistol frame, you were fine. Hard to believe they’d release something like this without BATFE approval, and the manual doesn’t mention anything about it being a one-way trip to rifle, so make of that as you will.