The KRISS Systems' KRISS Vector is now available in a pistol configuration. This allows civilians to purchase a short barreled configuration where previously they were limited to the 16" carbines. The military and law enforcement the select-fire pistol version makes for a compact and controllable PDW.
They weigh 6lb, no thanks
0 
0Bought a Vector back in November, cool gun, but wouldn’t fire, of the first 60 rounds, 11 fired. Stripped down, cleaned, lubed it again, still would not fire. Ok, some guns can come flawed, we gun owners all know this. That is when you count on the “lifetime warrenty”. Went through my local gun shop, Kriss refused to take the gun in and repair it, instead insisted on sending a new bolt, did’nt work. Finally Kriss agreed to take the gun into their shop for repair, they will not return my calls, the dealer says they would not send shipping label, still do not have my gun. I would not count on service from these guys no matter how cool the gun looks.
0 0jdun, that ‘blackmail’ is exactly the concern with pistol VFGs, and presumably this is not an AOW. I suspect that is it a very small market segment that would buy an AOW but refuse a SBR. (but there are some states that allow AOWs but not SBRs). Still, that seems like a very small niche market.
Also, I think AOWs transfer with a $5 tax but creating one requires the same $200 tax.
0 0Looks like something out of a space opera. Not that it’s a bad thing.
Definitely not a win for someone like me, when compared to a Glock 21. However, Jesse’s comment above is noteworthy, and demonstrates that it’s just a matter of finding the right market niche. 
I do have something of a sour taste in my mouth from TDI tho… I signed up for their ‘waiting list’ and they didn’t even bother letting me know when the carbines were out for sale; let alone reserving me one (even at MSRP). I still want one; but I have my doubts about their support. Waiting for them to come down to below MSRP before I buy one of the carbines.
0 0There are plenty of .22 (and a few .32) target pistols with the magazine in front. But even with a tiny barrel they’re quite long. And the magazine only holds 6 rounds. But you’d probably hit your assailant very accurately.
http://julientir.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/pardini-sp-mech2.jpg
http://www.fsguns.com/images/sp20.gif
http://www.carlwalther.com/images/gsp_expert_2661951.jpg
0 0Jesse,
They don’t do it because it is inefficient use of weight and size.
The reason why TDI use this method is due to their recoil damping system.
0 0There were rumours floating around about a year ago that Taurus (as far as I remember) were planning on releasing their own version of the Broomhandle Mauser. I heard about it on Michael Bane’s blog.
Sadly, nothing seems to have come of it- but I would have loved to see this classic resurrected.
0 0Am I the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of this thing? You could get the same results from any pistol or machine gun if you dropped the barrel’s axis down a few inches. The stuff about the mechanism being some sort of magical recoil reducing thing is nothing but marketing malarkey as there’s no escaping Newton’s third law.
0 0The thing to remember about recoil is that it is not an instant thing; it exists over a certain length of time.
At 600 rpm, there is a full 1/10th of a second between shots. Seems like a short time; but the bullet travels down the bore in a tiny fraction of that time. If you can lengthen out the recoil pulse across that full 1/10th second, it’ll be more of a push than a whack.
This is the idea behind Jim Sullivan’s ‘constant recoil’ principle as used in the Ultimax 100. Lengthen out the recoil pulses as much as possible so it just feels like a continual push that you can easily counteract.
The point is that you can’t escape Newton; but you can accomodate him.
0 0@don
WRT reliability of the Kriss guns, this report from AAC indicates the bolt design has been changed and is now more reliable.
http://www.aacblog.com/?p=6694#comments
0 0i agree with carl, especially with the AR15, comparing and contrasting gas piston versus DI, there is little difference in recoil (anybody who knows anything about the AR15 knows that the problem is not its recoil).
0 0Hey guys, still don’t have by Kriss back, any of you had problems getting it fire like I have? Would appreciate any help, the factory has been of little help, pretty sad it would not even fire right out of the box.
0 0Cymond,
I gave two options to go to. It’s always better to go with the $200 blackmail then the $5 version. At least with the $200 version you can put a stock on.
Again it’s not illegal. You just need to paid the overpaid lazy unproductive unionized government workers to send you a stamp that only takes less then five minute to do but takes 2 to 6 months for it to arrive in your mailbox. God forbid they work more then 1 hours a day.
Personally I think the tax stamp is discriminatory against working Americans. I would like it to go to the SCOTUS for a ruling.
0 0Whatever, the point about Newton’s laws is a good one. However, some people seem to think there is a significant difference in recoil between piston and direct impingement AR-15′s, and all of these are also subject to the laws of physics.
If I had to guess though I’d have to agree that most of the improvement is probably from the lower placed bore.
0 0Jesse,
Putting the magwell in front of the trigger group makes the gun front heavy, throwing off accuracy as well as balance which is integral to said accuracy
0 0I often wonder why more companies don’t go the Broomhandle Mauser C98 method of putting the magazine in front of the pistol grip. As someone with smaller hands I recently discovered that I shoot revolvers an order of magnitude better because the grip is made to fit my hand, not the double stack mag.
If someone would separate the mag well from the grip Scorpion style I could get the best of both worlds. Sure it wouldn’t be terribly compact and therefore not really a carry piece but as a compact high capacity home defense weapon I’d purchase one it a hard beat.
0 0wow. thats hot.
0 0Unless I’m a complete idiot (which sometimes I am) the Kriss gets away with the “pistols can’t have a V-grip” by the owner being able to use the weak hand by wrapping it around the magwell.
Otherwise it would be kinda muzzle heavy.
Make mine in 10mm please!
0 0It’s nice to see this option… BUT… I was on the pre-order list for the TDI carbine when it came out a while ago, and the sticker shock was at least as great as what we all got earlier this week with the Bushmaster ACR. I’ll be curious to see if this “pistol” is priced reasonably or somewhere up in geosynchronous orbit with the national debt.
0 0OMG HAWT
0 0Thats kinda sexy!!!
0 0Did they have an MSRP for the pistol variant? Thanks for all the cool information from the show.
0 0HK_WSU, not yet, but I may have written it down (hordes of stuff still to blog)
0 0Kudos for managing to include a proper trigger guard inside the whole-hand guard.
The trigger looks funky.
Looks kind of bulky like most SMG-to pistol converts, but maybe it will be good as far as stability is concerned. You think it’ll be legal in production class?
0 0So I have to ask the stupid question – how does this work with BATFE regulations? I know slapping a VFG on the front of a pistol (assuming it has rails to support it) is 100% illegal, but what if the pistol in question already has a vertical-ish hand-gripping point?
0 0Linoge, the machine gun version is shown in the photo.
0 0it’s not a VFG, it’s the magwell.. which is no different than any of the other rifle-to-pistol configurations..
you can use the front of the magwell on a AR pistol, as well as the magazine on a AK pistol as a “grip”..
this is no different, it was not designed as a specific VFG.. and is not removable like what is commonly thought of as a VFG..
i agree with the comments about pricing.. this will not be “inexpensive” either..
this is gonna be fun to CCW in a IWB holster..
0 0Linoge,
It is not illegal to snap a VG onto a handgun as long as your pay the blackmail, I mean the tax stamp (AOW $5 or SBR $200) to the US government.
0 0There’s a little bit of info on the new Kriss on this forum thread. (pictures and possible MSRP)
0 0Any news about the .40 S&W Kriss?
0 0Mark, its coming.
0 0
@don
WRT reliability of the Kriss guns, this report from AAC indicates the bolt design has been changed and is now more reliable.
http://www.aacblog.com/?p=6694#comments
The thing to remember about recoil is that it is not an instant thing; it exists over a certain length of time.
At 600 rpm, there is a full 1/10th of a second between shots. Seems like a short time; but the bullet travels down the bore in a tiny fraction of that time. If you can lengthen out the recoil pulse across that full 1/10th second, it’ll be more of a push than a whack.
This is the idea behind Jim Sullivan’s ‘constant recoil’ principle as used in the Ultimax 100. Lengthen out the recoil pulses as much as possible so it just feels like a continual push that you can easily counteract.
The point is that you can’t escape Newton; but you can accomodate him.
i agree with carl, especially with the AR15, comparing and contrasting gas piston versus DI, there is little difference in recoil (anybody who knows anything about the AR15 knows that the problem is not its recoil).
Hey guys, still don’t have by Kriss back, any of you had problems getting it fire like I have? Would appreciate any help, the factory has been of little help, pretty sad it would not even fire right out of the box.
Whatever, the point about Newton’s laws is a good one. However, some people seem to think there is a significant difference in recoil between piston and direct impingement AR-15′s, and all of these are also subject to the laws of physics.
If I had to guess though I’d have to agree that most of the improvement is probably from the lower placed bore.
Cymond,
I gave two options to go to. It’s always better to go with the $200 blackmail then the $5 version. At least with the $200 version you can put a stock on.
Again it’s not illegal. You just need to paid the overpaid lazy unproductive unionized government workers to send you a stamp that only takes less then five minute to do but takes 2 to 6 months for it to arrive in your mailbox. God forbid they work more then 1 hours a day.
Personally I think the tax stamp is discriminatory against working Americans. I would like it to go to the SCOTUS for a ruling.
Am I the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of this thing? You could get the same results from any pistol or machine gun if you dropped the barrel’s axis down a few inches. The stuff about the mechanism being some sort of magical recoil reducing thing is nothing but marketing malarkey as there’s no escaping Newton’s third law.
There were rumours floating around about a year ago that Taurus (as far as I remember) were planning on releasing their own version of the Broomhandle Mauser. I heard about it on Michael Bane’s blog.
Sadly, nothing seems to have come of it- but I would have loved to see this classic resurrected.
Bought a Vector back in November, cool gun, but wouldn’t fire, of the first 60 rounds, 11 fired. Stripped down, cleaned, lubed it again, still would not fire. Ok, some guns can come flawed, we gun owners all know this. That is when you count on the “lifetime warrenty”. Went through my local gun shop, Kriss refused to take the gun in and repair it, instead insisted on sending a new bolt, did’nt work. Finally Kriss agreed to take the gun into their shop for repair, they will not return my calls, the dealer says they would not send shipping label, still do not have my gun. I would not count on service from these guys no matter how cool the gun looks.
They weigh 6lb, no thanks
jdun, that ‘blackmail’ is exactly the concern with pistol VFGs, and presumably this is not an AOW. I suspect that is it a very small market segment that would buy an AOW but refuse a SBR. (but there are some states that allow AOWs but not SBRs). Still, that seems like a very small niche market.
Also, I think AOWs transfer with a $5 tax but creating one requires the same $200 tax.
Looks like something out of a space opera. Not that it’s a bad thing.
Definitely not a win for someone like me, when compared to a Glock 21. However, Jesse’s comment above is noteworthy, and demonstrates that it’s just a matter of finding the right market niche.
I do have something of a sour taste in my mouth from TDI tho… I signed up for their ‘waiting list’ and they didn’t even bother letting me know when the carbines were out for sale; let alone reserving me one (even at MSRP). I still want one; but I have my doubts about their support. Waiting for them to come down to below MSRP before I buy one of the carbines.
Jesse,
They don’t do it because it is inefficient use of weight and size.
The reason why TDI use this method is due to their recoil damping system.
There are plenty of .22 (and a few .32) target pistols with the magazine in front. But even with a tiny barrel they’re quite long. And the magazine only holds 6 rounds.
But you’d probably hit your assailant very accurately. 
http://julientir.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/pardini-sp-mech2.jpg
http://www.fsguns.com/images/sp20.gif
http://www.carlwalther.com/images/gsp_expert_2661951.jpg
Jesse,
Putting the magwell in front of the trigger group makes the gun front heavy, throwing off accuracy as well as balance which is integral to said accuracy
I often wonder why more companies don’t go the Broomhandle Mauser C98 method of putting the magazine in front of the pistol grip. As someone with smaller hands I recently discovered that I shoot revolvers an order of magnitude better because the grip is made to fit my hand, not the double stack mag.
If someone would separate the mag well from the grip Scorpion style I could get the best of both worlds. Sure it wouldn’t be terribly compact and therefore not really a carry piece but as a compact high capacity home defense weapon I’d purchase one it a hard beat.
Linoge,
It is not illegal to snap a VG onto a handgun as long as your pay the blackmail, I mean the tax stamp (AOW $5 or SBR $200) to the US government.
it’s not a VFG, it’s the magwell.. which is no different than any of the other rifle-to-pistol configurations..
you can use the front of the magwell on a AR pistol, as well as the magazine on a AK pistol as a “grip”..
this is no different, it was not designed as a specific VFG.. and is not removable like what is commonly thought of as a VFG..
i agree with the comments about pricing.. this will not be “inexpensive” either..
this is gonna be fun to CCW in a IWB holster..
There’s a little bit of info on the new Kriss on this forum thread. (pictures and possible MSRP)
http://ingunowners.com/forums/21st_century_firearms/70687-stay_tuned_announcement_coming_this_week-7.html
So I have to ask the stupid question – how does this work with BATFE regulations? I know slapping a VFG on the front of a pistol (assuming it has rails to support it) is 100% illegal, but what if the pistol in question already has a vertical-ish hand-gripping point?
Linoge, the machine gun version is shown in the photo.
Kudos for managing to include a proper trigger guard inside the whole-hand guard.
The trigger looks funky.
Looks kind of bulky like most SMG-to pistol converts, but maybe it will be good as far as stability is concerned. You think it’ll be legal in production class?
Unless I’m a complete idiot (which sometimes I am) the Kriss gets away with the “pistols can’t have a V-grip” by the owner being able to use the weak hand by wrapping it around the magwell.
Otherwise it would be kinda muzzle heavy.
Make mine in 10mm please!
wow. thats hot.
It’s nice to see this option… BUT… I was on the pre-order list for the TDI carbine when it came out a while ago, and the sticker shock was at least as great as what we all got earlier this week with the Bushmaster ACR. I’ll be curious to see if this “pistol” is priced reasonably or somewhere up in geosynchronous orbit with the national debt.
OMG HAWT
Did they have an MSRP for the pistol variant? Thanks for all the cool information from the show.
HK_WSU, not yet, but I may have written it down (hordes of stuff still to blog)
Thats kinda sexy!!!
Any news about the .40 S&W Kriss?
Mark, its coming.