Magpul AFG Review
[ I am pleased to present this review of the new Magpul AFG (Angled ForeGrip). The review was written by Isaac. ]
Let me preface this review by first establishing that anything to do with how your body interfaces with a weapon system will not be a review that’s binary in nature. There is no universal ‘this works’ or ‘this does not work’ as empirical facts on these types of products. What feels good to one person feels bad to another.
There’s been a rapid transition from vertical grips being used in the broom-handle sense, i.e hands fully around the column, and thus providing very little stability over the center axis of the rifle. So as the hand moves higher up along the line of the bore (in terms of grip) we’ve found that we need less tall of vertical grips to accomplish that need. A further variation on that is the idea of a hand-stop, which whittles away any unnecessary design to provide only a reference point for the hand to exert rearward pressure on.
The hand-stop concept is fantastic if you run a high tang grip. For me as a shooter I run my reaction side hand (or primary if working transitions) high, to the point where my knuckles are on top of the rail. The one issue that has been raised is the supination to the shooter’s wrist, or the over-extension caused by a hard 90-degree cant on the grip; the AFG works to solve this by using an angled gripping surface for the shooter.
This review was compiled from the experiences of 3 shooters, myself, and two other experienced AR shooters who spent about 100+ rounds on each of my guns (11.5 Costa-style SBR, which is fitting for this test, and my KAC SR-15). Obviously the build quality is fantastic, it’s an affordably made, and well thought out product in terms of execution. The grip comes with two finger groove inserts, one in the A2 style nub, and one that’s smooth. I found for my hands the A2 groove interfered with my smaller hands, and I had to switch out to the flat profile insert (swappable within 1-2 minutes with only removing two screws to separate the AFG in half). The AFG mounts to the rail using a flat head screw and nut, to lock it in to the rail. The AFG takes up approximately the entire length of a standard 7” carbine rail. However you can position it further forward on the rail depending on what feels best for the shooter.
So how does it feel? Well…I’d say it’s a mixed bag. My KAC SBR uses a KAC hand-stop, and the longer SR-15 uses a non-QD Tango Down Stubby vertical grip. Each gun has it’s own unique setup as I run two completely different light/laser rigs on each. So lets start with the SR-15 first. On the Knights SR-15 the combination of Surefire Scout, AN/PEQ-15, and Magpul AFG did not feel good for me at all. The previous setup (and keep in mind this is a combination of interactions on different parts) which used the TD Stubby allowed me to slightly extend my left thumb forward to activate the light, and when using the PEQ (pressure pad is directly under the PEQ-15, placed in between the left and top rail) all I have to do is a slight wrist rotation to hit the pressure switch. When the AFG is in place it’s a much more pronounced move to hit the light. And with the PEQ-15 instead of rotating my hand back a few degrees to allow my thumb access to the pad I now have to extend my whole hand out since it’s already canted. Simply put it’s comfortable when shooting, but it’s uncomfortable when trying to work with the light and laser. The AFG also interferes with rail-mounted accessories like Larue mounts. The AFG cannot slide next to them without the user removing part of the AFG with a Dremel. This isn’t a big issue and is user-solvable quickly, but it’s still an issue worth pointing out. Since the review I’ve switched back to the Stubby, and I’ll get back to that in my conclusions.
On the SBR the results were notably better. Because I run my Surefire at the 1 o’clock position this allowed me to better high grip on the AFG, and the results were comfortable, though not perfect. The 11.5” SBR also provides an interesting test bed. As my rifle is very similar to Chris Costa’s (I run a different light setup however) so it’s a situation where my rifle matches up very closely to those in the marketing material. So taking that in to account the biggest differences become the difference in body mechanics between the two shooters.
To summarize how the AFG feels, and all the shooters independently confirmed this after our demo (we all came to the same results separately) is that the AFG can be equated to a slippage in physical purchase (grip, not money). I equate it to sitting on your back, feet against the wall, as you push out with your feet you have a solid action/re-action to what you’re pushing against. The AFG feels more like pushing against an angled surface, in that the force is somewhat translated but the force also wants to go up and out. So while it accomplishes the job of pulling back it feels less positive in terms grip. The tango down grip provides a solid 90-degree point of reference for my hands and the hands of the shooters who demoed the AFG (and I can keep an extra 123A battery in the stubby). The same can be said of the KAC hand-stop. I will admit I like the AFG just a tiny bit more over the KAC hand-stop, which is why I’ll continue to use the AFG going forward. However I’ve found that the AFG for me at least was not the right choice for my longer SR-15. I understand the mentality behind the AFG, and I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s a solution searching for a problem. As I said earlier this is not going to be a binary review, this is however going to be a binary product. You will either love it or hate it. My response to it on it being announced was very mixed bag, my response to it in use is still the same. The human body is absolutely unique among individuals; ergonomics is always about creating a compromise. It’s about making what feels good to the largest percentage of individuals. I’m in the percentage that just barely considers it an improvement.
However at 35 dollars it’s too cheap not to try out for yourself, make these decisions after some range time, and see how it works for yourself. I do want to thank Magpul for allowing me to try one of these out for free, and come to these conclusions myself as impartially as possible.
So is the AFG able to be used on an AR-style pistol without running afoul of the BATFEIEIO’s AOW rules?
Nice looking.
Citizen, I believe Magpul has said they’re working with the BAFTE to establish how it works with AR Pistols, etc.
So that would be a “answer pending” situation.
I think this will benefit people who use the “thumb break” grip method the most
The thumb break method is the proper way to hold a rifle. Unfortunately the vast majority use the boom stick method which is the wrong and worst way to hold a VG.
Great post
@ Griffin, thank you. I enjoyed doing the T&E on this product. jdun1911, you’re right. If you look at photos 2 and 5 the shooter is actually using the AFG improperly. The AFG will help a shooter with good technique, but it won’t create good technique out of nothing. If you grip it low it won’t help anything. As you can see in my shooting stance on the other photos with the left arm straight, hand up and over the rail, the AFG does provide a comfortable grip.
I’d like to re-test the AFG on the SR-15. And instead of moving the AFG to work for my Scout/PEQ set up, I’d like to position the AFG to what feels comfortable and move the PEQ/Light around to fit that.
For the price, I want to try one of these.
D and jdun1911, what is the thumb break method? Tried Googling it but didn’t get anything.
It would be helpful if someone could post a few close up and unobstructed photos of said AFG, both on and off of the weapon.
I remember the old M-16A1 I carried and the handguard was tapered. It gave you a natural feel. The way we were taught to fire, the taper gave you the wider part in your palm so your hand fit nicely. The newer models like the M-4 have a straighter short hand guard so there is nothing in the palm of your hand making you grip it at a weird angle for your hand/wrist interface.
It looks like this fore grip does something similar. It really depends on how you hold the weapon and your arm length as to wear to mount it and if it will be ergonomical, IMO.
I notice all older military and most hunting rifles have this taper and new ones do not. I’m not a shooter, I just like guns and served in the Military. US Army 1/11 ACR Scouts out.
It looks like a good idea that maybe has to be worked on to get it 100% right. I think if I was using one it would be closer to the magazine, that would be most comfortable. Then have a straight or pistol grip a little further toward the end of the hand guard for CQB or full auto use. Just saying from my limited Military experiences.
Robert,
This article should explain it to you. Save me a lot of typing.
http://www.03designgroup.com/technotes/vertical-foregrip-placement
This isn’t my pictures. I spent a lot of time trying to find good pictures of how a VG should be hold on AR15. Like I said the vast majority of people that holding VG is holding it the wrong way. Even on AR15
The Right Way:
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt275/Glin1216/Shoot/DSC_0127.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3999857338_77030588f0_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3422/3983809725_39d1ae02fa_o.jpg
http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp247/wormydog1724/MVI_1740_0002.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7599/dsc04763y.jpg
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/gstuffnow/JenSBR.jpg
http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac61/gstuffnow/SBR01.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2694/4104518423_cd36878872.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/adamkusmc/50c770140aec4368b8565ecb882d6e0d_16.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2437/4000009882_87dbed609e_b.jpg
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a103/thedoctors308/CIMG0335.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j292/stukas87/S6003468.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1750/88218579.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5235/dsc0075mv.jpg
The Very Wrong Way:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a199/markawil/M4_Impact.jpg
http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss28/chadwick76/DSC_0185.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9074/img3102.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/10182009015.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7878/img2705e.jpg
http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs201.snc1/6825_10100138535605414_8380677_58704980_2472232_n.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/ODA564/STUDs/MikeM2.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f31/pac-man-10/MissionClub008.jpg
jdun1911, thanks VERY much for the links.
yea when you hold it boomstick/VFG method your support hand isnt really doing much despite the amount of effort you have to put into that support hand to hold the front, its an inefficient use of ergonomics and the amount of energy for that grip.
@ Robert
Here is thumb break method:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/afg_5-tfb.jpg
it is a compromise of the handguard and VFG grip methods. Analysis of the different grip methods is at:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/12/02/new-magpul-afg-angled-foregrip/
Great pictures, that is exactly what I was talking about. The way I was taught to fire the M-16 by the military was the correct way. I never understood why all these people go out and buy pistol grips for their handguard, especially on full length rifles. Those grips are for one reason in my thought process, CQB. When in close quarters it’s not possible to grip the rifle the correct way. Your weapon is pointed in all different directions while you are moving in a straight line, around corners, up stairs and so on. The foreword pistol type grip will give you much better control of the weapon in tight confined areas. But to me it’s useless out in the open in a fire fight. Unless you have a very short barreled weapon and still you do not grip it.
Like the old Thompson machine gun if used correctly the pistol grip can help especially in full auto, but you have to use the correct technique. I also carried the M-3 grease gun and the magazine was the front grip. The correct technique was to NOT hold the magazine tightly, hold it losely up near the well, lean forward with your weight on your front foot then walk the rounds up into the target as the muzzle rises, unless of course the target was very close. Same for an M-60.
I see on youtube so many griping it and firing the weapon….wrong!!!!! I even commented and explained to one guy who just could not hit anything and looked annoyed by his new toy. He was gripping the thing like he was holding on for dear life with his 6.8mm M-4 type rifle. No way you’re going to hit anything…LOL. I even see people actually leaning back and firing, some leaning back and firing full auto, wrong.
These people should take the time to learn how to fire these expensive toys..err..I mean guns before they hurt someone or themselves, especially on full auto. You can watch video’s made before WWII and it has not changed in that regard both full auto and aimed single shot fire.
Thank you jdun!
I was suppose to post more pictures up and proof read but I hit the submit button by mistake. Go figure.
Anyway, make sure your strong side elbow (trigger finger side) is tuck as close to your body as possible. This make your body compact and your elbow won’t get shot off. No chicken wing.
Good, No Chicken Wing: (It is kind of awful when viewing over 100 page of pictures I can only find this many picture where there is no chicken wing elbow and is holding the rifle correctly.)
http://www.notoo7.com/2008/JgunsC21.jpg
http://www.notoo7.com/2008/JgunsC42.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/matich/SDB3VsqjAcI/AAAAAAAAUKk/_TytyQtEZps/s800/IMG_4826.JPG
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk99/USMC03_photos/Pat%20Rogers%20May%202008/IMG_0617.jpg
Bad, Chicken Wing:
http://www.tenringhosting.com/ViewImage.aspx?PID=8304a62f-24da-45ed-8f75-abef581b583f
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/rcarter1932/071stRifleRangeTraining043.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i265/kimber_45/Hale_3.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i265/kimber_45/Allen_1.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6744/img5327bda9.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/MEDIC-0372/123123-R2-17-15_046.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/brokencilence/P1060009.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb89/andyrv6av8r/M16007.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s171/CLETUS_08/P1030405.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q198/RallySoob/LindseyShootinAR15.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/bluejames19/IMG_0881.jpg
jdun1911, thanks for putting together those links.
I don’t know how relevant any of this is in an actual “fight for your life” type scenario. I can see how pointing around, underneath, over, sideways, or tucked behind something, that there is no specific grip technique except the grip you can manage to get at that specific time.
All that being said, I will probably give this AFG thing a try in the near future. I like the fact that it does give more for a hand to grasp vs. a straight forearm but is less likely to become something that might hang up on stuff, gear, or whatever.