Smith & Wesson M&P15R: 5.45x39mm AR-15 announced

m-and-p-15r-5.45x39mm-tm.jpg

S&W have announced the M&P15R, an AR-15 chambered for the 5.45x39mm. The idea being you can save costs by shooting the cheaper round instead of 5.56mm.

The product spec sheet says the launch date was “May 1, 2008″, yet the website says coming soon.

M And P 15R 5.45X39Mm
M&P15R. No surprises if you have seen an AR before ;)

It will also be available as a complete upper.

It ships with one 30 round 5.45x39mm magazine.
Specs:

Model: M&P15R

125Px-5.45X39

Caliber: 5.45 x 39 mm
Capacity: 30 Rounds
Action: Semi-Auto
Barrel Length: 16”
Barrel Twist: 1 in 8”
Front Sight: M4 Post
Overall Length: 35” Extended ,32” Collapsed
Stock: 6-Position Collapsible
Weight: 6.5 lbs.
Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
Receiver Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
Chromed Comp: Barrel Bore, Gas Key
Bolt Carrier, Chamber

Another photo:

M&P15R 5.45X39Mm

When I interviewed Magpul they were planning on releasing a 5.45x39mm conversion kit for the Masada so that trips to the range would cost less. I wonder if Bushmaster is going to follow through with this with the ACR.

Press release after the jump

SPRINGFIELD, Massachusetts — Smith & Wesson Corp., the legendary 156-year old firearms maker, announced that it has introduced the M&P15R, a new addition to the company’s M&P tactical rifle series. The new AR-15 style rifle is capable of firing the economical 5.45 x 39mm ammunition and is available as a high quality semi-automatic rifle or as a complete upper receiver assembly kit.

Based on a combat-proven design, the M&P15R incorporates the standard features found in all Smith & Wesson M&P rifles. Engineered to meet the needs of recreational shooters and AR-15 enthusiasts, the M&P15R features a flat-top receiver and an M-4 style post front sight. The rifle is standard with a 16-inch barrel with a twist rate of 1 in 8 inches. Reliability features of the gas-operated rifles include a chrome-lined gas key, bolt carrier and barrel. A six position collapsible stock allows the M&P15R to accommodate a variety of shooting positions. The rifle measures 35 inches in length when fully extended and measures a compact 32 inches with the stock collapsed.

“The M&P15R offers AR-15 enthusiasts as well as those shooters who are looking for a less expensive option when heading to the range, a high grade semi-automatic rifle for recreational use,” said Tom Taylor, Vice President of Marketing from Smith & Wesson. “The new rifle, which is chambered in the less expensive 5.45 x 39mm, will allow consumers to spend more time on the range for less cost. The M&P15R will also be available as a complete upper receiver assembly, allowing those who already own an M&P Series rifle or one of the many other variants, the opportunity to change calibers with ease.”

The black anodized rifle is manufactured with a durable upper and lower receiver made from 7075 T6 Aluminum. A single stage trigger with a 7 lb. trigger pull is standard, as is the A2 Birdcage compensator. The M&P15R is designed to accommodate a variety of optics or a traditional back-up iron sight. The rifle is shipped with a 30-round magazine and has an unloaded weight of 6.5 pounds.

The M&P15R joins a comprehensive family of Smith & Wesson products designed and manufactured to meet the needs of firearms sports enthusiasts worldwide. Other models include the M&P15, M&P15A, M&P15T, M&P15X, M&P15OR, M&P15ORC and the M&P15FT rifle. In addition, the Smith & Wesson Performance Center is also manufacturing a high-end extension to the M&P Rifle Series, the M&P15PC.




Steve Johnson

Founder and Dictator-In-Chief of TFB. A passionate gun owner, a shooting enthusiast and totally tacti-uncool. Favorite first date location: any gun range. Steve can be contacted here.


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  • Jesse

    Huh… well that’s interesting. I was just thinking about getting a Polish Tantal to shoot the cheaper ammo as shooting my AR is getting far to expensive. I’m spending $200 a month on ammo and I’m using the cheap Serbian stuff.

    Maybe I’ll excelerate my plans to buy second AR instead. The question remains, will it function with the really cheap steel cased surplus 5.45×39

  • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

    Hi Jesse, they are advertising it as a way to save money so I would assume that it would function fine with the cheap steel cased ammo.

  • http://www.brasscasing.com J

    I shot a .30 Russian CAR-15 quite a while back and recall the spring noise in the stock tube being REALLY distracting. I haven’t shot a 5.56 AR-15 so I don’t know if that is normal for the rifle, but it certainly was present in the .30 variant.

    For whatever that is worth.

  • http://thebronzeblog.blogspot.com/ thebronze

    Will this rifle be a POS like their 5.56 rifle is?

  • bryan d

    i have the ar15 smith and it wont cycle cheap ammo .i tried wolf wont run through .dont have any problem with lake city,and yes it a little more but groups well..

  • Byte

    I’m waiting to hear from someone who just got an upper to see how it handles the steel cased stuff. After all, isn’t it pretty much the only way it’s going to be cheap to shoot? Old Russian/Romanian stock ftw! Just rcvd 6k rounds and it came in under $830 shipped. Conversely, my last 2k of Lithuanian .308 was $1063 shipped…

    I’d consider buying a complete rifle if they’d produce a reliable 5,45 in with the rail setup like the T so I can use a decent set of BUIS’s. Personally can’t stand the ole A frame M16 style front sight. Yuck!

  • bryan

    the ar 15 smith wont cycle steel cased ammo ,at least myupper wont..

  • les mckenzie

    I have the new 5.45×39 it will shoot the steel case just fine but you cannot change the trigger to a light weight it will not fire at all!! that is the only thing i do not like about it. i am going to try the jp ass and use the hammer and spring that came with the gun . we will see how it works.

  • Chuck

    Went to a machinegun shoot last weekend and had the opporunity to shoot an m-16 with a smith 5.45 upper. It worked great. We were shooting russian steel case ammo and the rifle never missed a beat. I put also 1000 rounds through the rifle my self and the owner of the rifle did the same. I had so much fun with it that I bought one of the uppers myself.

  • shnob hunter

    I grabbed an Mp-15 5.45 at a gun show thinking it was a .223 didn’t really figure out it was not a .223 until i got it home. Ive shot nothing but steel casings out of this gun and has never skipped a beat only incidents have been cheep russian rounds it operates so well that ive decided to keep the it. Would recommend to someone wishing to purchase a quality AR-15 and really not bad with the 5.45X39.

  • Les

    I just recently purchased a Model: SKU: 811011, 5.45 x 39mm and I seem to be having trouble finding the ammo in Houston. I have been to several stores, Academy, Carter’s Country, Bass Pro Shop and none of them carry the ammo. ABle Ammo on line shows the cartridge, but it’s always OUT OF STOCK. Maybe I made a mistake and should convert it to a .223. Anyone got a suggestion.

    A guy at Pasadena Sun Shop did have about 500 rounds which I bought. Also, he said that Wold Ammo is the only one carrying the load and taht’s it’s a pretty dirty load. However, he did say it was easy to clean. US made .223 is a lot cleaner, but you gun is a lot harder to clean. The powder cakes up and sets like concrete.

    What’s a guy to do?

  • Les

    Oops……..That’s Wolf Ammo.

  • les mckenzie

    go to aim i just talked to them today i have 16,000 rounds orderd they are going to ship them on thursday they just got a new shipment i got them for 119.00 1080 but i think they went up to 129.00 for 1080 get lots oboma is here got to protect the usa from him.

  • Les

    I notice that it’s surplus Russian ammo, not Wolf. From what I heard, the Wolf is a more quality ammo. I just ordered 1,000 rounds for $229.00, but it’s Wolf ammo.

    I just picked the gun up last weekend and am going to go shoot it on Friday. I have some of both, so I’ll see if there is any difference. I didn’t realize that the 5.34×39 ammo was going to be this hard to get.

    It should be great from varment & hog hunting. I may hunt does with it as well.

    I’m using the peep sights.

  • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

    Les, good luck with that.

  • Les

    I still haven’t heard any comparison veiws on the 2 rounds.

  • les mckenzie

    That ammo from AIM is very good stuff i shoot 1″ at 100 yds also you do not have to worry about if it is non corrosive if you have a smith you got a chrome lined barrel. but you still need to clean after every shooting very nice gun i got full float tube red dot and peep site i tried to change the triger to light weight the gun will not fire went back to the factory and it worked very good. i am going to try a jp triger with the factory hammer and spring it should work let you know.

  • Matt

    I have a Superior Arms AR I just picked up it has the 5.45 and I have had a rough Break in period with the wolf ammo the bullet seperates from the brass case, I am thinking if I can find a bulk carrier of the 5.45 ammo and the 5.45 30 round mags because the 5.56 mag is very loose not good mags I had alot of jams and problems

  • les mckenzie

    go to c-products for new stainless steel mags. 15.95 eachbest around

  • Les

    Hi Matt……..I have had mine out twice using the Wolf (primarily) but also some of the Russian ammo. I have had a few jams with the Russian ammo, but very little problems with the Wolf. I’m shooting the 70 grain bullet. I have not had a problem with the bullet separating from the case. It has jammed a few times but I think that it’s because it’s so new and need more breaking in. I’ve only shot about 200 rounds through it so far.

    I probably will not get any more of the Russian made ammo. I don’t think it’s as good. I only have 50 rounds of it left. But in my opinion, the Wolf is just fine…..so far. If you have priced the Remington ammo for the .223 you will find that the 5.45×39 will cost you a lot less.The Wolf is a bit dirtier but it cleans easily. I have heard the American made Remington (and others) are a lot cleaner but much harder to clean. It seems the American made ammo seems to bake onto the metal parts. You almost have to chisel it off to get it clean.

    I’m going to stick with the Wolf and see how it does after the gun is broken in. So far I really like it. I just ordered a little 1.5-5 scope. The dot sight at 200 yards is a bit hard for old eyes. The scope should really help.

    Keep me posted on how you are doing.

  • Oneshotkill

    Ive put a few hundred rounds of 60 grain wolf through my new smith and I love it. I don’t mind the cleaning, and I think the ammo’s as good as I am. Had 2 ftf one day, but since I started inspecting all my rounds before loading, no problems. By the way I did find three rounds so far (of 250) that had malformed bullet tips. Loving this so far but thinking of getting a 5.56 setup for the better quality ammo? Wondering if I need to swap complete upper, or just bolt and barrel. Anybody know about this?

  • jeff

    Just picked up my new m.p. 5.45 cal…. Never heard of that Cal. before a couple weeks ago… I fiq. what the heck…I got 2 ,1000 rounds,today in a round green tin @ 260.00 a 1000, ( way to much money) I’ve got 3 more 1000’s coming @ 210.00 per 1000… (better price) … I think if you buy one of these rifles you need to order LOTS of ammo (CASES AND CASES)….I think you’ll see more of these guns in the Future….. Any other thoughts from other????

  • les mckenzie

    i have changed to the jp triger and used the factory hammer and a 223 factory spring . that is the ticket 3.5 lbs it is the best .

  • Steve from Tampa

    I have been shooting 223’s since VN and was a little apprehensive when this caliber first appeared back during the Russian invasion of Afganistan in 79. As these new AK’s with their small round made their way back into circles here during the mid 80’s, only then did we all realize what devastating effects this round had on its human targets. True, it is lower in energy that a 223 but the design of this bullet in its original form (59 – 61 gr) made it superior to wounding and killing. This bullet yaws at a very early rate of penetration and for years the Afgani’s and the CIA insisted that the Russians put some type of poison in the concave end of the bullet itself since this caliber produced such devastating wounds and survivors had infections set in at an early stage. This was all due to the design of the bullet and the barrel twist. The US Army recently conducted tests of this round and found out that it did indeed penetrate a steel pot (the old kind, not the Kevlar) thru both sides at 800 meters as did the 223 with a 1/9 twist and using SS109 62 gr. So erase you doubts of this cartridge right now. It works, has been proven, and follow up is quicker than a 308 battle rifle. I purchased a Smith MP15R a few months back and it feeds anything thru it with any AR15 magazines. Zero problems and quality superior, fit and finish, action better to Bushmaster or Rock River which I rate the highest of the AR makers. This gun is a home run all the way and I would not hesitate to carry it as a main battle rifle for urban and open conditions. I am not arguing the differences between this and a 308 as I feel that there are times when each has their own merits and own shortcomings. Having a 308 on the plains of Africa or the open desert in the Middle East makes more sense but for all around swinging a weapon where targets are around the 100 – 400 meter range, this is very hard to beat. Very hard. J & G Sales in Prescott, AZ has ammo and the cheapest around. If they are out, they will send you ammo when received and that is usually under 2 weeks time. I just got Wolf with zinc casings, 62 gr, at $215 incl shipping for 750 rounds. Had I opted for the slightly corrosive Russian or Bulgarian military sealed tin 1,060 rd package, I would have been right at $205 w/shipping. This beats 223 prices and really beats 308 ammo prices. Bottom line? Superb gun from Smith, a proven round, and cheap and easy findings of this 5.45 ammo. Also own a AK74 Romanian and never a problem there either but the Smith AR is more accurate and more ergo friendly as expected.

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      Steve, thanks for your review of the gun and the round.

  • Tom Terrific

    This is going to seem like a pipe dream to some of you or just maybe a fairy tale to others, but there is a new company which is about to release it’s first product to the shooting community.

    Their first product to hit the market is a high capacity cartridge feeding system for one of the most popular self-feeding rifles on the market. My understanding is that the patented design can be adapt to any magazine fed rifle but don’t make the mistake when reading my words and think that one system fits all rifles. It doesn’t.

    I have been sworn to secrecy and I have had the opportunity to use one of these systems. All I can say is that the system works flawlessly and will replace (in some cases) up to 20 magazines of the caliber of their first model.

    Personally I can’t wait to buy one of these things. I have been waiting for one of these systems all my life… Well, almost. Their really cool.. Don’t hold your breath but I would expect it is going to be 6 months to a year before you see any advertisement about them. You’ll know which cartridge feeding system this blog is referring to when you see it. They really are fantastic. CAPACITY ++++++

  • Lance

    It be easier to buy a AK-74 and shoot 5.45 ammo.

  • David

    Smith and Wesson 5.45 upper. Purchased a few receivers with the intent of putting a couple of AR15 together in maybe 223 or some other round. But I just ordered my first S&W in the 5.45 round, just had to have one and now I want to purchase a couple more uppers in that round. Where can I buy them?

  • Adrian

    have had mine for a while, and love it! the only problem that i have had was some silver bear hp ammo that would not chamber right. i went back to the fmj never skipped a beat! shot a pig with it dropped her like a bad habit!

  • cris

    Hey steve, recently purchased a S&W lower but fits loose with a colt upper , can u advise thanks
    cris

    • http://www.thefirearmblog.com Steve

      cris, go to ar15.com forum and ask there. They will be able to tell you.

  • jeff

    Hey Chris, Can not help you. I bought the whole smith and wesson package, its fits nicely. and it shoots very smooth… The round,as you know is faster and the re-coil seems less…and the ammo’s cheaper.. I love it…keep trying, somebody will help you…

  • Destroyer

    interesting idea. The 5.45 round is superior in many aspects to the 5.56 in terms of terminal wound effects, though the fact is that many elite units (FSB, OMON, Al’fa) operating in Grozny are reverting back to the older, 7.62x39mm AK because of the shortcomings of the 5.45 similarly experienced by US troops with their 5.56mm.

    Note: the AR15 platform was not designed to shoot steel casings (such as that used in warsaw pact ammunition and Wolf) because of the small size of the extractor (contrast this to the AK74, which, like all AKs, have a meaty extractor designed to fire poor quality ammunition) that will break down due to the hardened steel, eventually causing failures to extract. I know many folks that shoot Wolf through their AR15’s, though i cringe at the thought (and im sure they spend more time cleaning the damned thing than shooting it).

  • steve from tampa

    WOLF ammo is not all that bad. Many have shot thousands of rounds of it with zero problems. It is true that years ago WOLF was considered a dirtier ammo than regular REMMINGTON or WINCHESTER, ect. Times have changes. Steel case ammo had to be the choice of many since the brass ammo got real scarce awhile back. The Smith AR’s seem to work real good with steel case but all the manufacturers say ‘no’ to using it. So what do we do? Well………WOLF maes a zinc cases round in 223 and in 5.45 and it is a clean round, accurate round, and is no filthier than the above mentioned US made ammo. Real nice stuff and JG Sales can deliver you 750 rounds of it for right around $200 shipped. This seems to be the answer for now. I agree that using brass cased ammo is probably the way to go but wow……….the cost and availability. I shoot a 5.45 AK which will eat the steel cased stuff like candy and also the Smith 5.45 AR’s have had no burps either. Bottom line? IF you can get brass ammo, then do it. If not…………….using steel cased ammo in a new Smith AR will not hurt it a bit. By the way, I am a VN vet who was one of those who used the full auto switch more than the average soldier and I never had an extractor problem or really any problem. We would not clean our rifles purposely and one XM177 went two tours with no cleaning whatsoever and was passed to another ‘cool and trusted GI’ who kept it hidden in the rafters of the laundry shed and God knows how many rounds were fired afterwards. Only problem I ever had with an AR was a buffer detent getting wore down at a range here in Tampa. I own a Bushmaster, a Colt, a Rock River, and a Smith AR. The Smith is the best with Rock River right up there as far as color/fit and finish/working reliability goes. Thats my opinion only. Thanks

  • jeff

    Love mine… had it now a year.. I’ve shot it two, three time last summer… little less recoil.(I Think) and it faster and more deadly( my understanding) No jams.. used a beta mag… Love it, so much, I think I’ll buy one more….

  • Les

    Hi Steve……..I have had a S&W 5.45×39 for the last year or so. I have been shooting the WOLF ammo with great success. I have had very little jams, probably no more than any other gun.

    Here’s what I was told by a gun dealer in Houston about dirty ammo. He said taht the Wolf was a dirtier ammo than Remington or Winchester, but that it was very easy to clean. V/S the Remington ammo, that is much cleaner burning, but much harder to clean. He said the Remington ammo has a tendenancy to bake onto your parts, and that sometimes you almost have to chip the residue off with a tool. I have had no trouble using Gun Scrubber to clean up after shooting Wolf. So I’m sticking with the Wolf.

  • Destroyer

    i prefer the PMC or prvi partizan…or fiocchi

  • steve from tampa

    Just a quick comment…………….the surplus ammo offered (in the tins or Russian packaging) is corrosive but not like the old days of really corrosive ammo. If you clean your rifle after shooting or clean it the next day you will be OK. Very inexpensive to shoot using that ammo. Wolf does make a zinc cased cartridge and it is absolutely top shelve in terms of quality and accuracy. Stock up on this or the Russian ammo while you can. I trust all of this ammo.
    In regards to the comment by ‘bronze’ at the top suggesting that the Smith AR is a POS, I can not help but wonder what caused this crazy comment(?) At every gun show and at every dealer, the Smith continues to be the best quality AR out there in every respect. I am not a Smith advocate as for years I thought (and still do) that the Model 29 44 mag was not as strong as the Ruger Redhawk or a couple of other models. The Smith AR does not take a back seat to any manufacturer in any area and I would challenge anyone to come up with a much better AR. Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River, Olympic (SGW) are all strong and Smith is right there with them or ahead of them. Thanks

  • Mark S.

    I bought my M&P15R about a year ago. I have been pretty happy with it so far. Ive shot several brands of ammo thru it. Wolf 60 gr. FMJ were great. 60 grain Silver bears were pretty good but they didnt cycle thru my mags very good. I recently bought 500 rounds of Wolf 60 grain HP. Ive tried to shoot these a couple times. I have actually fired 4 rounds of it. Every time the case has stuck in the chamber and ive had to beat it out. Im not sure whats different about em. The cases arent lacquered like the military surplus stuff but the other Wolf FMJ rounds werent either and they functioned fine. I bought 150 rounds of the military surplus yesterday, gonna try it on Thursday. Any ideas as to why those Wolf HPs are sticking?

  • gh

    Hey Mark S.

    Ive shot hundreds of rounds of the Wolf 60gr hp, no probs whatsoever. It also eats the 70gr fmj, and the 60gr fmj like candy. I love this rifle, just wish I could shoot it more.
    I am very thorough about cleaning, maybe you need a chamber brush to get some of that laquer off, just my 2 cents.

  • steve from tampa

    Just a comment on the Russian special forces choosing the 7.62 round in favor of the 5.45 round. The main reason for this is simply a distance-to-target choice. The 30 caliber AK round is definitely a puncher at short distances but does its rainbow arc thing after 150 yds or so. Most of these special forces and police do the urban/building fighting thing and this will make sense on why they went back to that round. But not all did it. Checking on what agencies use what and who uses what, the split is about even with the 7.62 going to the real close up dirty work people. Most would readily agree that if shooting for precision and over 200 yds the 5.45 would certainly be the way to go. The yaw of the bullet when entering human flesh is much better than the 7.62 and if you read the ballistics of this round even at 600 yds, you will be amazed at its performance. So bottom line is this…………….close up stopper is the AK47 and a few football lengths away the AK74 is the way to go. Either way its still not pretty to see the results. Keep in mind too, that the Russian govt is loaded with surplus and new 7.62 ammo and some convincing at the local level did this choice. Still the Spetznaz and two other presidential guard units still use the 5.45.
    The more I shoot this round the more I like it. The low cost sure helps. Wolf has a zinc plated round that has never ever burped or failed once. I did have doubts about the Wolf brand but I honestly cannot find any thing to knock it with. I own several AK74’s and their accuracy is outstandng. They are all tack drivers at 25 and 50 yds in an indoor range.While I would be the first to admit that in a dire emergency I would grab my 223 AR or maybe the DSA tactical but grabbing the AR in 5.45 with 750 rounds or so would not be a bad choice either. Anyways, for this period in time where ammo prices are still high, the 5.45 is still a real great choice in every category.

  • http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/ Jack Lee

    Hi, I just finished (17 Aug 2010) an article on my blog site about re-loading those infamous steel cases (mostly Russian .223). This is about my personal experience and about the do’s and don’ts. I point out how you could save a ton of money using what other shooters are throwing away.

    I hope this won’t be taken as spam, because it sure isn’t! I don’t get paid one nickle to write (that should be obvious when you read my article) so, this is just something I thought would be helpful to shooters trying to save a buck or two on reloads, and after all isn’t that one of the reasons to reload?

    Okay…here’s my link to the article titled, (shooting sports) Reloading Steel Ammo Cases

    http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/

    If anything goes wrong with the above link you can always google the title and add my name, Jack Lee, and you will get the link.

  • WILDWILLY

    I just purchased an m&p 5.45 x 39 and want a beta mag anyone know if they are out there.

  • Jack

    Obviously I must be missing something, how’s shooting a 5.45x39mm any cheaper than shooting a standard 5.56? I just checked a few retails outlets on prices and it looks like there’s NO price difference. 5.56 rounds are .16-.21 cents each on average and so is the 5.45, yet the 5.45 packs in less powder, thus less range and less power…that’s an advantage?

    And what’s so great about the S&W AR? Again, I must be missing something? The S&W M/P model doesn’t have anything my home built AR’s already have and I made them for less money. I could match S&W’s weapon point for point and I still come up with more gun fro the money.

    Here’s a tip for you AR shooters: Get yourself a decent chamber brush and then use it correctly. They sell for about $5 and if there’s one consistent problem with the AR’s it’s keeping the chambers clean to prevent jams. AR chambers are tough to clean, so you need a specially designed chamber brush to kick loose the bits of residue and copper before they compact and you have a bigger problem. Do this one thing and you should have a trouble free weapon.

  • steve from tampa

    Wow……………..cannot believe the last comment. 5.45 x 39 ammo is way, way cheaper than any 223 out there. One can buy 750 rds of Wolf zinc plated case for under $270 shipped ! If one wants Russian military commercial ammo which is considered corrosive, then expect to pay under $200 shipped for almost 1,200 rds. Do not even think about shooting SS109 in your 223 as the cost for those rds have really jumped thru the roof. Try JG Sales in Prescott AZ and it takes only 30 seconds to look at their site and realize how much less the 5.45 ammo is.

    The advantage is wound characteristics. The advantage is the design of the round so that it begins to yaw after a very short penetration even with a 1/8 barrel twist. This is a very accurate round. It was designed to create as much damage as possible and the soviets used the 223 for years in their labs to perfect this new round. On paper it looks substandard to the 223. Now with the M4 223 having this ridiculous 1/7 twist with a short barrel, the stopping factor has went way down. The US military has countered this twist by pumping up the weight of the bullet itself which makes sense but still is not doing the job. Too many multiple hits are required to finish off an assailant. Even the older version of the M16 with its 1/12 twist and 55 gr bullet is a much better stopper in terms of first shot incapability. The 5.45 x 39 is the result of many years of hard work by our former (?) enemy. The Afghans in the first year of the war with the Russians were absolutely astonished by the range and the deadly effectiveness of this round. Wounds were so devastating that Soldier of Fortune Magazine (which my friend was editor) sent people over to capture one of these weapons and ammo to see why it was so great. Take a few minutes and actually look at the bullet design itself. Very easy to see what will happen when it hits any resistance. I have seen the after effects of an M16 (Vietnam 2 tours Army 70 – 72) and have to admit that our own little round is very good. The 5.45 just adds a little more to this smaller class of rd size.

    We continually use AR15 magazines to shoot this round and have had not ONE burp yet. I would dare say that you can use a BETA mag with no problems. Not totally guaranteeing it but I do not see why it would not work. These 5.45’s work in Thermolds, 20 or 30 rd steel/aluminum mags, and all other AR magazines. I know that in the AK223 situation, those mags will also feed the 5.45 real reliably. Hope this all helps. Getting back to the price difference……………………well, there is a big difference. If one wants to really clean their rifle after shooting the surplus Russian ammo, then there is no better way to go. Plenty of this ammo also. Unreal quantities. Flat shooting accurate rd and does not share the rainbow trajectory of the standard AK47 rd. Very easy to get hooked on. I just gave up on the 223 situation but still own my 223’s. If you want to actually shoot and shoot…………………then this is the round for you. After seeing what this rd can do (still penetrate both sides of a steel VN era helmet) at 800 meters……………………you will be sold on it.

    • Luke

      you can buy wolf ammo in 556 for the same price. its really not much cheaper.

      • Tom

        what? I bought 1080 rd tin for 169.00 plus shipping, its a lo cheaper and if you read Dr martin fackler’s research its a hell of a close range round to boot!