Featured Deals of the Week – 5/17/19

@Gunn Apparently the word SHIT flags comments on this ostensibly adult forum.

@Gunn Brace yourself for the "you must buy 1400 dollar AR's to rag on people who get cheaper AR's"!

@Gunn I've built 2 palmeto ar now for $400ish. Both have lasted over 1k rounds with no issues. Not as fancy as the DD or my other builds, but they work.

@TW Even PSA (which I still don't recommend after seeing a bunch of problems when I worked at a shop that transferred and serviced a ton of the things) is a cut above the yet-lower tier ARs like the one in the article.

Saying that your PSA ARs have lasted over a thousand rounds is like saying that your car has lasted maybe five thousand miles-- doesn't mean much.

Some PSA components are fine, others absolutely not.

@Xerxes036 I'm eagerly waiting

@Gunn Just curious, which components should I avoid if I build something off of their components? I'm planning a .300blk pistol build soon, and would love to know what I can plan on tossing out shortly.

@Gunn https://uploads.disquscdn.c...

@Gunn Obviously depends on your usage pattern.

I'm more of a C&R guy so my AR's are lucky to get 200 rounds a year, Army cut weapons qualification to once a year so my service rifle won't even get that anymore unless Bolton gets his Forever War 3.0 in an as of yet undisclosed country. Of course my car only gets about 1,500 miles a year on it as well short of the exceptional cross country road trip.

May not mean much, but when deciding to spend money on things you really don't need that much in the first place, it means enough.

@Nolan Seen many issues with the lower parts kits. Their BCGs work, but eat gas rings. Their barrels can be sketchy. Assembly quality is also suspect.

Avoid their LPKs altogether, barrel will probably be fine (and you can test it yourself), BCG okay but recommend Toolcraft instead.

Once you get it in, have a gunsmith check the assembly and make sure everything is torqued down right, has anti-seize compound applied, etc. Or do it yourself if you have the know-how.

That's my advice.

@Derek McRoberts As long as you understand what it is.

What PSA ARs are, are fun guns for general dirt-shooting and light competition. Not serious competition, duty, or defense.

It only starts bothering me when people recommend the brand for the above serious roles, or go on about how "iT wOrKs fOr mE" without being able to understand the limits of their experience.

@Gunn What's the cheapest AR you'd assemble ?

Like, for actual use (hunting or home defense).

@Gunn I'm wondering how many of these you've actually owned long-term. I've never heard of these guys, but that doesn't mean they don't make something decent. I've built over two dozen AR-15 and AR-10-type rifles using components from various sources, and have extensively fired them all to well over 5K rounds EACH.

I'd like to know the opinions on this by those who have actual experience with them, not those who by default assume lower-priced is "terrible". Judging something on cost alone never did anyone any good.

@Gunn What more does it need to do than "work for them"? If it isn't "tacticool" and they don't care, what's the problem? Who does it harm?

@iksnilol I find it interesting that a number of folks here can judge the quality of parts, guns, and such without ever having had experience with them - just because they "know". Claiming someone's LPK, BCG or whatever are inferior is bogus because the critic certainly hasn't seen enough, or doens't know enough about the assembly and care of the gun to really analyze it, but they sure like to play "go-to gunsmith" when given the chance.

No specifics given (what about the barrel is "sketchy", what "issues" with the LPKs, etc.) - assembly quality will vary when someone does their own build, and a lack of anti-seize as nothing at all to do with the quality of the parts themselves.

@iksnilol There are great deals to be found used, so that's where I'd look first.

If I had to buy new... Hmm, DSA 16" barrel with FSB, Magpul handguard, Aero upper on sale, Toolcraft BCG, KE Arms complete lower receiver (blem), MBUS rear sight.

Maybe a hair over $500 after shipping and transfer fees.

Used (quality) parts could lower that $100-150 if you're smart, or get a little more gun for the same money.

But if you're buying new, at that point you could buy an M&P15 Sport 2 outright, which is a great buy and a solid rifle out of the box.

@CountryBoy PSA is THE big name in very entry-level ARs, so if you've not heard of them, that might be a sign you're missing things. Anyways, you're assuming a lot about me and what I'm judging on (all wrong).

I've owned a 10.5" pistol from PSA, which was okay once I fixed the QC-related stuff that was wrong with it (gas key staking, rust, loose grip screw, etc).

What's way more relevant is working in a shop that had hundreds of PSA ARs transferred/shipped through. Saw dozens come back not running with various broken bits and pieces. The gunsmiths hated the brand with a passion.

Some of PSA's stuff is okayish, a few things are solid, most things are meh, and some things are dogsh*t.

Go on and listen to all the people who really know ARs and how to build them and how they work, not just a pretend dog on the internet. You'll hear the same thing I'm saying.

@CountryBoy Bad information harms everybody who actually needs good information.

The issue isn't that PSA people say "this brand is fine for casual hobby shooting like I do"-- PSA is just fine for this-- the issue is that PSA people start talking about how theirs has run flawlessly, and it's therefore great for ANY AND EVERY TASK, which is either ignorant or negligent.

So PSA people preach bad info to their friends, and you end up with PSA home defense guns and PSA patrol rifles, and they are absolutely unsuitable for those roles.

The issue is usually that the rifles are TOO "tacticool"... instead of just buying a solid basic rifle and maybe a red dot, people spend the same amount on a much cheaper AR and $200 or $300 of garbage Chinesium accessories that aren't worth a damn.

@Xerxes036 Aaaaaaand here we go

@Gunn Heard of 'em, bought from 'em, built from 'em and all.

Reading your post, you're an "expert" at all this, without having used many of the things you've commented on.

The "hundreds of shipped/transferred" must only be serialized items - firearms and lowers - because uppers and other things don't need to be transferred through an FFL.

I asked for specifics, but none were given. One or two issues is understandable, especially if you've dealt with Colt, S&W and other major firearms makers who have all had their "issues" as well, whether with 50-year old gun designs or ARs.

I've been building ARs since 1972, repairing them before that, and still find very few "issues", as you call them, are really an indication of general quality. But when looking at one brand - by having "hundreds of PSA ARs transferred", assuming you're going to have anything but PSAs come back to you doesn't make anything but sense given what you sold/transferred.

I'll tell you about Colt ARs, S&W ARs and more if you'd like to chat about firearm quality sometime. Selling something like PSA despite your "knowledge" of problems isn't something we'd do at all, as the returns you allege don't make much sense if you're trying to please a customer. OTOH, if you're trying to generate business with people who don't know any better, you've built a profit center.

Items made as mim-spec parts can be easily checked to verify that; dimensions, treatments and finishes can be verified. If you're blaming assembly issues on the maker of the parts, you'd best point your other nine fingers at the major firearm makers as well, since they've all - even whatever you'd consider is "the best" - had issues and recalls, if you were only aware of them.

Other than that, you're barking at the wrong target.

@Gunn If people claim it's "great for ANY AND EVERY TASK", I'd like to see that. I've never had anyone claim that nor have I seen it in print on the web or elsewhere.

However, I HAVE - and still do - see people use a paint roller to slam a distributor, dealer or maker because THEY had a bad experience with them. As often as not it's because the buyer was the problem, not the part, and that holds true from the metal all the way to the grips.

Why are PSA guns unsuitable? Specifics, please - no generalizations needed, as that was in the previous paragraph.

Please be kind enough to outline the specific AR parts sold by PSA that are Chinese-made as well, so you can be serving people by warning them of items you claim are inferior as well.

You'll be doing all of us a favor by exposing what you know.

Bad information comes in many forms.

@CountryBoy Your attitude is bad and your reading comprehension is worse. I clearly never said anything from PSA was made in China.

People who white-knight for low quality brands always ask for "specifics" and statistics as if they exist, as if this is a world where every podunk gun shop keeps meticulous track of guns sales vs. repair intakes, brands and calibers and issues tracked, et cetera, submitted to a giant database.

And like I have to doxx myself to have a conversation with you on the internet.

This is a world where anecdote and experience are all we've got. Listen to the nationally-known trainers and subject matter experts. I've already told the stories I have to tell.

I'm too poor to waste my money on sh*tty guns and gear.

@Gunn Give it up. You're not a knight for anything, but simply making statements you can't possibly back up, because you "worked at some place that dealt with PSA stuff".

I asked for specifics because you provided none, which is the best sign of a BS artist. When called out they deflect, and that's exactly what you did, as I expected. Rather than cite specific situations or conditions, you lash out at me. You didn't mention ONE THING about any brands, PSA, Chinese or whatever.

And I never stated you said anything from PSA was from China; try a dose of the comprehension you claim to have. I asked you to SPECIFY WHAT PSA ITEMS WERE FROM CHINA - and you didn't do that either.

So you want to talk "anecdotes and experience" but do so without having anyone dare question you or ask for proof? Fine - start your own blog, and you can be that shining star you'd like to be.

Meanwhile you ARE providing "anecdotes and experience" without backing up your stories - being specific at all, because doing so would invite others to refute your arguments.

Clearly, your arguments don't hold water. Whether you realize it or not there are very few outfits actually MAKING the components used in ARs - no matter what you're building - and those few are doing it for an entire industry, whether you realize it or not. There aren't 50 different makers of lower, or bolts or whatever. But being a brand-snob doesn't help you or anyone - which is exactly why you can't or won't give specifics.

If you really encountered it, you'd remember it, or it'd be filed away with your excellence in comprehension.

"Doxxing" yourself isn't needed to cite one or two examples and you know it - or you don't know what doxxing means at all.

If you're too rich to buy lower-cost items, fine, but gun snobbery died long ago, with the advent of CNC machining and other advances. The result is a lot of quality stuff for people who refuse to pay $1500 for a Colt-branded AR because it doesn't matter to them. They're not the gung-ho operator you apparently are, or the wannabe either.

Deal with it.

@Gunn I warned you!

@Xerxes036 How expensive do I have to go to rag on people who buy 1400 dollar ARs?

@Gunn I’ve recently gotten familiar with the Sport 2 from working on my neighbors, and I will caution everyone to avoid them. It was so overgassed that the kick had to be addressed with a AGB. During the replacement process I discovered that the flash hider and barrel nut we’re barely torqued on. I also noticed the inside of the chamber/barrel extension was painted black...why? Lastly, I learned how S&W thinks they’re special with installing the FSB pins the opposite direction of literally every other AR manufacturer.

@Suppressed That's a shame to hear. The ones I've seen/handled have so far been solid, if not exceptional. Had heard about the backwards pins.

Another data point to add to the mix.

@CattyCakes Lol

@CattyCakes $1800.

@Gunn Sorry for the late reply, but thank you so much for your information! I was planning on using my own trigger from another kit, but hadn't thought of checking the assembly of it. I already built one AR from the ground up, so maybe I'll tear it down to make sure it's done right. Thanks again for your time, sir.