The Firearm Blog

Promag is manufacturing 10 and 15 round magazines for the sub-compact Kel-Tec P3AT & Ruger LCP

Ruger LCP 15 rounder

Kel-tec P3AT 15 rounder

The 10 rounders cost about $32 and the 20 rounders are going for $35, although you may be able to find them cheaper at other sources.

And now, before you ask "why?", I say "Why Not? ".

[ Many thanks to the reader who sent this in ]

Inevitably, Kel-Tec's new .22 Magnum (WMR) chambered PMR-30 pistol will be compared to the FN Five-seveN pistol which fires the ballistically similar 5.7x28mm cartridge. If people are not saying it now, they will be soon saying that the .22 Magnum is the same as the 5.7x28mm. I used to say the same thing. It turns out that this is far from the truth.

Kel-Tec PMR-30 pistol. Photo by Oleg Volk.

FN Five-seveN USG

Kel-Tec have stated [PDF Link] that a 40 grain .22 WMR round should reach a velocity of 1230 fps from the 4.3" barrel of their PMR-30 pistol. This works out to 134.40 ft/lbs of energy.

This is a significantly less than the FN Five-seveN USG (4.75" barrel), which can push a 40 grain bullet at 2009 fps. This works out to 358.57 ft/lbs! Nearly three times as powerful as the .22 WMR! ¹

This does not mean that the .22 WMR is not a good cartridge. It simply means that the 5.7mm is optimized to be fired from a pistol, rather than the slower burning .22 WMR loads which are designed to be fired from a rifle.

5.7x28mm. Image from Wikipedia.

.22 Magnum / WMR. Image from Wikipedia.

UPDATE: Added correct link to specs on Kel-Tec's website : http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/downloads/SHOT2010_preview_keltec_PMR-30.pdf [PDF Link]

Kel-Tech have developed a new pistol which chambers the .22 Magnum (WMR) rimfire cartridge. The small size of the .22 WMR has allowed Kel-Tec to squeeze 30 rounds into the double-stacked magazine (a new original design), yet maintain a comfortable grip size.

The PMR-30 has a unique hybrid blow back / locked breech recoil system. In order to accommodate a wide range of ammunition, the pistol automatically adjusts between locked breach and blowback based on internal pressure. I look forward to seeing how this system works.

One problem with the .22 Magnum is that because it was designed as a rifle cartridge, the powder load is slow burning. This maintains high pressure in the barrel for a longer period of time. This high pressure can prevent extraction during recoil because the gas pushes out against the brass and presses it into the chamber wall. Shooting Log report that the PMR-30 has a fluted chamber to prevent this type of extraction problem. The gas enters the flutes and counterbalances the pressure against the case wall and also acts as a lubricant.¹

The PM-30's frame is aluminum. The slide and barrel are steel. Interestingly, the barrel is fluted.

Regarding the .22 Magnum performance compared to the FN 5.7x28mm round, read this article.

Oleg Volk has taken some photos of the pistol...

30 Rounds is a lot of ammo!!!!

UPDATE: Bill pointed out that the Grendel P30, which was manufactured in the early 90s, was designed by George Kellgren, the founder and chief designer at Kel-Tec. I suppose the PMR-30 is an improved P-30.

[ I am pleased to present this guest post was written by Bill Lester.]

I've been a revolver guy for most of my twenty-eight years as a shooter but have had a love/hate relationship with small frame .38, .357 and .44 wheelguns for longer than some of you may have been alive. They're great from a concealment and reliability standpoint but are somewhat lacking in ammo capacity and shootability. In the wake of the terrible Omaha Nebraska mall shooting a couple years ago, I began to think about getting a CCW with increased capacity compared to the snubbies I usually carry. What if I needed to lay down a few rounds of suppressive fire to allow my family to escape danger? A five shooter doesn't leave much capacity for that. But I still needed something small enough that I had no good excuse not to carry in with me at all times. The homework began and I settled on the subject of this post, Kel Tec's P-11 in 9x19mm.

Overall dimensions of the P-11 are essentially the same as a S&W J-frame with 2-in. barrel and neoprene boot grips. Loaded weight is about 21 ounces. Depending on which magazines you have, capacity is 10 or 12 rounds plus one in the chamber. That's quite an improvement over a small frame .38! The P-11 will also accept even higher capacity magazines intended for the service-size S&W 5900-series pistols, although concealment suffers because the mags stick out from below the grip frame. You could carry a flush fitting Kel Tec mag in the gun with reloads using larger S&W mags to maximize both concealment and firepower. The P-11 disappears in a pocket holster and cargo shorts. Carried in a belt slide, the pistol's minor dimensions make it easy to forget you're armed.

The P-11 is true double action only (DAO) and will give you a second strike on stubborn primers. I personally believe this is an overlooked advantage compared to many other autoloaders. Over the years I've experienced a few light primer hits and in every instance they ignited with a second strike of the firing pin. If it would occur again during a defensive shooting, which do you think will be faster - pulling a P-11's trigger again or racking the slide on other designs without second strike capability? Something to think about.

How does the P-11 shoot? In my opinion, very well for such a small handgun. The target shown above consisted of the last seven rounds I had on my first range session with the pistol. Ammo was WWB 147-grain JHP. I fired using an Isosceles hold with the target 20 feet away. The flyers at one and eight o' clock are a common phenomena with this pistol. Regardless of the specific load used, a couple of shots out of every magazine usually end up straying from the rest. Nevertheless, group size is still smaller than my hand at a distance greater than many rooms measure in length. That's plenty accurate enough for my needs. There are 700-750 rounds through my P-11, consisting of WWB 115-gr. FMJ's, 115- and 147-gr. JHP's, Federal 115-gr. JHP's, Remington-UMC 124-gr. FMJ's and Black Hills 115-gr. +P JHP's. Some people have complained that their Kel Tec pistols are less than fully reliable out of the box and recommend a so-called "fluff n' buff" to improve function. I've experienced no malfunctions of any kind and have done nothing to my pistol except clean and lubricate it.

Felt recoil and muzzle lift are quite comparable to what you'd experience with a steel 5-shot .38 using +P loads. The P-11 isn't the kind of handgun you'd want to shoot all day but it isn't going to draw blood either. The only real discomfort I've experienced was after installing a factory magazine extension. There is a small gap between the bottom of the mag body and the extension. Under recoil, I experience an unpleasant pinch after firing 8-9 consecutive rounds. Overall control is improved somewhat using the mag extension, so there is some gain for the pain. A definite plus for guys like me with meaty hands, the P-11's recoiling slide doesn't bite the web between thumb and forefinger. That's more than I can say for the majority of small autos I've fired.

Overall I think the Kel Tec P-11 is a real winner in the small CCW category. It's easy to conceal, provides a substantial number of ready rounds, and has proven to be both reliable and accurate. With suggested retails starting less than $350 for a blued slide example like mine, how can you go wrong?

[ I am pleased to present the first post in the series of guest posts that will run for the next couple of weeks. This post was written by Aaron Spuler. ]

I’d been looking at the local gun shops over the past few months, but they only have so much selection. The Saxet gun show is in Austin, Texas every third weekend of the month. Hadn’t been to a gun show in a while, and knew that it would be a good opportunity to not only see but get some hands-on time with a variety of different pistols. Specifically, I was looking for a reliable, compact every day carry pistol. I’d been planning on carrying my Bersa Thunder 380, but it is just a little heavy and large for daily carry. There is a variant of the Bersa Thunder 380 intended for concealed carry, but I just own the standard version. So I put together a list of different pistols to take a look at and did some online research before going to the show.

Kel-Tec PF-9

I was a little disappointed as the selection was not as varied as I’d hoped – predominantly Glocks and Sigs, with small amounts of others thrown in the mix. I did, however manage to get to handle a Kel-Tec PF-9. That was at the top of my list of pistols to check out at the show. The three vendors selling new Kel-Tec PF-9’s were selling them for anywhere from $15 - $65 over MSRP. In other words: not good. I’m glad I did a second look at one table, because there was a PF-9 on the table that I missed the first time around for under MSRP. Purchased the brand new Kel-Tec PF-9 for $302.85, including tax.

After the show I purchased an extra magazine, a Hogue Handall Jr. grip sleeve, and some Hornady Critical Defense 115 grain JHP ammunition to go along with the pistol. I already had a Desantis Nemesis holster, originally purchased for the Bersa Thunder 380, that the PF-9 fits into nicely.

I took the PF-9 out to the range on Saturday and put 130 rounds through it at a target posted 30 feet away. I tested a combination of 115 grain PMC FMJ and Winchester JHP. Both the FMJ and JHP ammunition cycled and fired flawlessly – I experienced zero errors (failure to feed, failure to fire, failure to eject).

The PF-9 does not possess an external safety, and relies instead on a double-action only (DAO) trigger. The trigger pull distance is slightly long, but the pressure is spaced evenly throughout, rather than a heavy jump right before the hammer is released. The trigger pull weighs in at a reasonable 6 pounds of pressure, similar to that of a double action revolver.

Surprisingly, for such a lightweight gun, I did not notice any issues with the recoil, and neither did another shooter that put 8 rounds through the PF-9. Perceived recoil may be slightly more than a full size pistol, but at 15.5 oz (fully loaded), that is to be expected with this size of pistol. Recoil is considerably less than that of a Ruger LCP, which weighs in at 9.4 ounces and fires the smaller .380 ACP cartridges.

The sight picture is a traditional 3 dot system, and point of aim is very natural. I could close my eyes, bring the PF-9 up to aim, and open my eyes to find the sights very near their intended location.

I tended to take up the slack in the trigger to about 80% and then jerk the remaining 20% during the first magazine. Although I was able to maintain a good sight picture, jerking the trigger caused groupings to be in the 8 – 10 inch range. After correcting that issue by maintaining a steady pull on the trigger all the way through, I found that the PF-9 is capable of more accuracy than I am. I was able to consistently get 8 round groupings that could be covered by the palm and fingers of one hand. The final 8 rounds fired for the day were in a grouping approximately 3 inches in diameter.

Once I have my license to carry (waiting on the state to finish processing my application) I'll be carrying this pistol with me everywhere I'm legally able to.

Kel-Tec have partnered with radio personality Michael Savage to produce a limited edition .380 P3A pistol that commemorates the ratification of the Bill of Rights.

The limited edition features:

• Hard Chromed slide.
• The word "Freedom" and "December 15, 1791" laser engraved on the slide.
• Crimson Trace laser.
• Two magazines.

Reminds me of Summer Glau playing a terminator.

Oleg Volk, master gun photographer, took this photo and more of the Kel-Tec RFB.

Snowflakes in Hell has interviewed Matt from Kel-Tec about their RFB .308 Bullpup rifle. It is very interesting and well worth reading.

Sayuncle has reviewed the Crimson Trace laser grip be bought for his Kel-Tec P3AT pistol.

Read it here.

After being delayed a few time the Kel-Tec RFB .308 Bullpup is now shipping.

Kel-Tec:

We are happy to confirm that the RFB is in production and shipping to distributors (yes, it’s true!). We are currently shipping small batches, however full-scale production will commence in the coming weeks! On a similar note, we have purchased three (3) new CNC machines specifically for RFB production.

More info on the RFB.

The Kahr P380 .380 micro compact pistol will be shipping next month (November 2008). This pistol competes with the Ruger LCP and the Kel-Tec P3AT.

The pistol was originally supposed to be shipping earlier this year in June. The press release today came shortly after the Ruger announced a recall on the .380 LCP. Coincidental? I think not.

I missed a press release that Kel-Tec issued last month. The 18″ barreled version of the bullpup RFB Carbine will be shipping next month.

In order to keep the costs down the rifle will not include sights, although it will include a Picatinny rail, and “will ship in an in-expensive box”.

RFB Carbine Features:

- 18” Chrome lined 7.62 NATO chambered barrel
- Birdcage flash hider included
- Front ejection of cases
- Top Picatinny rail for mounting sights (no sights included)
- Gunsmith replaceable barrel with adjustable headspace
- Click adjustable gas system for various power ammo, or suppressor use
- Accepts FAL metric magazines with straight-in/drop-free magazine well (one magazine included)
- Nylon sling and hardware included
- In-grip storage capability

More info on the rifle here.

An interesting holster made by Stellar Rigs:

These were announced by the manufacturer on rec.guns recently:

Our Kel-Tec neck chain concealment rigs were developed originally for
LEOs to carry the back up gun under their vests. Over time a number of
“civilian requests” had us make a vertical version for better
concealment. Now comes the “Extreme Duty” evolution. The most popular
question by phone or email is “how well does it hold?” Our standard
answer is “fine for cruising around in you car or walking but not well
enough to jump out of helicopters or off fences – is that what you want
to do?” The answer is usually no – but just in case.
We are now making “Extreme Duty” versions in Black and the sexy carbon
fiber laminate and they hang on almost as well as the NAA mini-revolver
models. In fact, You nearly have to “force load” them. Yeah, they hang
on good !

Personally I think the chain looks too thin and I could not carry a gun pointed to my chin, holster or not.

You may say that is superstition, and maybe it is, but I know of many cases of people shooting themselves in the foot while practicing for IPSC when drawing from holsters. I just would not feel comfortable.

UPDATE: I posted this in a hurry. Links to the manufacturer and rec.guns discussion are added.

Kel-Tec displayed their new RFB 7.62×51mm (.308) bullpup rifle at SHOT Show. SMGLee took some great photos.

With suppressor, nice!

Wikipedia has this to say about the rifle:

The Kel-Tec RFB High Efficiency Rifle (Rifle, Forward-ejection, Bullpup) is a gas-operated semi-automatic rifle with a tilting breechblock locking mechanism, manufactured by Kel-Tec Industries of Florida. It loads the 7.62×51mm NATO (.308 Winchester) cartridge and uses metric FAL magazines. The rifle uses a patented forward-ejection system via a tube placed over the barrel that ejects the spent case forwards, over the handguard of the rifle.

The rifle is a forward ejecting semi-automatic firearm chambered in 7.62 mm NATO (.308 Winchester), utilizing a short-stroke gas piston. To avoid the sloppy trigger pull typical of bullpup style firearms, the RFB utilizes a floating linkage bar between the sear and the hammer, allowing the sear to remain above the trigger. The weapon is fully ambidextrous, much in the style of the French FAMAS bullpup assault rifle. The RFB accepts FN FAL style magazines, and is delivered without iron sights. A mil-spec Picatinny rail is standard.

Here is a video of the rifle, clearly showing the forward ejection.

Kel-Tec plans to offer three different four versions each with a different barrel length:

• Carbine (18″),
• Sporter (24″),
• Target (32″ heavy barrel, or 26″ stainless steel barrel)

The rifle is expected this quarter (1st quarter 2008) in the forth quarter, see the comments by dogon1013.

More images after the jump.

Continue Reading »