The Firearm Blog

Arsenal Inc are now selling a heavily modified AK-74-styled version of the Saiga .410 gauge shotgun.

Arsenal SGL41


Standard Saiga .410

Many of the components have been removed and replaced with AK-74 parts. These include:

* hand guards
* gas block and gas tube
* front and rear sights
* buttstock
* pistol grip
* muzzle brake
* Bayonet lug

Some of these modification require changes to the receiver itself. IZHMASH, who manufacture the Saiga and the official AK rifles, went out of their way to ensure that a pistol grip could not be easily fitted (so it could be exported as a sporting arm). Arsenal have also added their own two stage trigger group.

The retail price is $889. This is a premium over the standard Saiga, but you are getting a lot more.

Pictured with folding stock and picatinny rail.

Kamil Arikut, who works at Safir Arms, makers of the .410 AR-15 shotgun, posted a comment on the blog saying that a english language forum has been created for American users of the Safir T-14 so that they can get in touch with their Turkish counterparts. If you have questions about the gun, they probably know more about it than anyone in the USA.

Earlier this year ATI began selling the T-14, an AR-15 style .410 shotgun that uses a standard AR-15 lower. I have been asked many times if and when just the upper on its own will be available for sale. I learnt from Suburban that AIM Surplus are now selling just the upper for $499.95.

The upper had a 20″ smoothbore barrel and is supplied with a five round magazine. Two models are available, the Classic and the Compact. The only difference between the models is the handguard length.

The Compact Model


The Classic Model

There has been a discussion on the blog about the controversial new Federal Personal Defense Handgun .410 shotshell ammunition designed exclusively for the Taurus Judge .410 revolver.

.410 Personal Defense opened and pellets dumped. Thanks to Stephen for the photo.

The round contains 60 pellets of #4 bird shot (each pellet is .13″ in diameter). The load of pellets weight 1/2 oz (218.75 grain). Velocity is listed as 1200 fps which makes the total energy delivered at the muzzle to be 700 ft/lbs.

Federal said to Guns Holsters and Gear that:

The #4 pellets (approximately 10) penetrate to a depth of up to 6″.

(the pellet number is wrong, but the penetration depth sounds right for .410)

So with these facts in mind do you think that this round is capable of delivering a blow that warrants its name? I am not sure it does, but I welcome your opinions in the comments. I have a few issues with this round and how Federal have marketed it.

Firstly, the FBI requires penetration of at least 12″ for their ammunition, added to this is the fact that the pellets are individually, only .13″ in caliber and weigh about 3.6 grain. I would not want to be shot by one, and they could certainty kill if they traveled around the body and hit a vital organ, but I seriously doubt an attacker would be stopped in their tracks.

Another problem is shot dispersion. Dick wrote this comment on the blog about he groupings he achieved.

NOT SUITABLE FOR PERSONAL DEFENSE AGAINST MUCH OF ANYTHING LARGE ENOUGH TO WARRENT “SELF DEFENSE” EXCEPT PERHAPS SMALL SNAKES! A large one shot with this round at 21′ will likely kill you before it bleeds to death! With 2 rounds it put 18-20 pellets inside a 12″ circle so the snake better be curled up and there were plenty enough large gaps to miss a head shot.

Another issue I have is the published velocity. When firearm manufacturers publish velocity they usually base it on their test barrels, which are usually longer than what you would buy. For example shotgun velocities would be recorded from 28″ or 30″ barrel. The 1200 fps this round achieves is very similar to other standard shotgun loads, the difference being it is intended for the Judge. Most of the Judge models have a 2.5″ chamber and 3.5″ barrel. Revolvers measure barrel length forward of the chamber, so compared to a normal shotgun this works about to be 6″ of barrel. I believe shotguns are loaded with fast burning powder (reloaders please correct me if I am wrong), but this seems pretty amazing if it can achieve maximum velocity in only 6″ of barrel.

Finally, if Federal believe this is an adequate round for self-defense, why have they not published their own internal studies? Telling me it has 6″ of penetration, presumably in ballistic gelatin, is just not enough information.

So far Federal have not delivered a .410 buckshot model of the Personal Defense Round, but likely will later this year.

I am interested in your opinions. I don’t consider myself very knowledgeable in this area.

UPDATE:

Other blogger have weighed in on the issue. Go read what they have to say (if you have blogged about it and I don’t know, tell me and I will add your blog to the list):

Michael Bane @ The Michael Bane Blog

Caleb @ Gun Nuts

The Tuffy is a new single shot youth shotgun chambered in .410. It features a thumbhole stock that can store five rounds, and has a viewing window for checking how many rounds are stored.

Two models are available, one in stainless, the other in matte blue. Both has 18.5″ barrels and weight 3 lbs. The MSRP is $172 (I think this is for the blue version).

The first Rossi I shot was a .22 / . 410 matched pair. They are really neat guns and an ideal inexpensive candidate for teaching children shot to shoot.

Ed, who blogs at Tell Me Why?, interviewed Tony from American Tactical Imports about their .410 AR-15 shotgun, the AT-14 (otherwise known as the T-14).

You can watch the video here.

It answers a question I have had: is the lower standard AR-15? The answer is that it is almost 100% mil-spec and with a minor modification it can be used with other AR-15 uppers.

AT-14 / T-14. More photos here.

Tony says that the rifle is classified by the ATF as sporting shotgun partly because of the 5-round magazine. I have read it is possible to use modified AR-15 30 round magazines. This does raise the issue of Section 922R Compliance – converting an imported sporting arm into a non-”sporting arm” that would not be allowed to be imported in the first place. Saiga shotgun owners know all about this.

(I know nothing about 922R compliance – just what I have read – so don’t take anything I have said as legal advice)

It should be easy to get enough US-made replacement AR-15 parts to make the shotgun classified as a US made firearm by the ATF. A problem may be people messing with the shotgun not realizing that just because it looks identical to the Bushmasters sold at the local gun store, the ATF have other ideas.

Any legal eagles who understand the issues are welcome to sound off in the comments.

James @ The Next Chapter bought himself a .22 / .410 M6 Scout take down rifle.

Taken down and packed for transport.

More photos and information at The Next Chapter.

I covered the Safir T-14 / ATI AT-14 .410 AR-15 shotgun on the blog earlier this year. Mike, a reader of The Firearm Blog, emailed me photos the AT-14 he just received.

Click to expand the photos.

Two black shotugns. .410 Siaga shotgun (AK clone) left.


Annular piston system. ATI’s markings can be seen on the lower receiver.

If you have any questions I am sure Mike will be happy to answer them in the comments.

A big thanks to Mike for taking the time to strip his rifle shotgun for photos.

Many more photos after the jump.
Continue Reading »

Yes, you did you the title correctly. American Tactical Imports are bringing the Safir Arms T-14 stateside and calling it the AT-14.

T-14 Classic

Now you are probably asking yourself why would someone want such a gun? When I first learnt about the T-14 a few months ago I asked the same question. The T-14 is very popular in Europe. Many countries, including Turkey where the T-14 is manufactured, either ban semi-automatic rifles or make it hard to own one. This gun is the closest thing the average citizen can get to owning an AR-15.

So why is ATI bringing them to the USA where AR-15s are plentiful? I wondered about this myself. First of all they could be a popular hunting arm for AR-15 enthusiast for use in shotgun only hunting areas (I don’t hunt with a shotgun, so correct me if I am wrong). Ed Friedman made a good point that with the new self defense .410 ammunition from Federal this gun could make a good self defense weapon when over penetration is a concern. A .410 slug should give similar performance to a .357 Magnum.

The ATI advertisement.

Guns.ru describe the gas system as follows:

The gas system utilizes annual (ring-type) short-stroke gas piston, located around the barrel

T-14 disassembly. One BIG spring

The gun can be seen in action in this youtube video:

ATI will be importing the Classic model and the Compact model. Both feature a A2 carry handle style upper receiver, fixed stock and 20″ barrel. The only different is the length of the handguard.

AT-14 Classic

AT-14 Compact

According to Ed a 5 round and 15 round magazine will be available. I have read that AR-15 magazines can be converted to hold 10 .410 rounds. Ed hopes to review the shotgun in an upcoming issue of Guns and Hunting.

UPDATE: The MSRP is $979 and dealer price is $800. They should be available shortly (thanks War Wolf and Todd for the info).

Taurus have added a snub nosed revolver to their line of Judge .410 Gauge shotshell / .45 Colt revolvers. The “Public Defender” 4510PD model is build on the smaller Taurus Model 85 frame.

It can only take 2.5″ .410 shells unlike some of the newer Judge models which can chamber 3″ shells. It also features a reduced profile hammer.

Photo from casa-z

Two models are available. A lighter model with a titanium frame (see photo) and a standard model with a blued steel frame.

Specs:

Capacity: 5 rounds
Cartridge: .45 Colt and .410 2.5″ shells.
Sights: fiber optic front sight and fixed rear sights.
Action: SA / DA.
Grip: Taurus Ribber
Cylinder: Steel or Titanium.

Wow, that is not a blog title I expected to ever write. Federal have unveiled .410 “Personal Defense Handgun” ammunition designed specifically for the Taurus Judge .45 Colt / .410 revolver.

Two 2.5″ buckshot loads will be available. The first load is 0.5 oz ( 218 grain) #4 buckshot which I think works out to be about 10 pellets (according to wikipedia, correct me if I am wrong). The other load has four 000 pellets (9mm). The muzzle velocity is 1200 fps.

The Judge from Taurus® has emerged as a very popular handgun for Personal Defense®. This specialized gun has been without a specialized load-until now. Federal introduces two 2-1/2″ loads designed especially for The Judge. A special hull design and optimal payloads make these loads perfect for this gun. Choose between a 1/2-oz #4 or 4 pellet 000 buck option-either way the performance will be there.

Taurus Judge photo that I recently uploaded to Wikipedia. Taken by Dennis Chen

Rossi have launched a new youth matched pair rifle with a matte nickel finish.

It comes in a .17HMR/.410 and .22LR/.410 versions.

New for 2008 Rossi is excited to offer a popular Matched Pair Set in a matte nickel finish. The set includes a .17 HMR or .22 LR rifle barrel with adjustable fiber optic front sights and .410 gauge shotgun barrel with brass bead front sights.

Ideal for first-time hunters, this Matched Pair is the perfect gun for varmint hunting or a fun day at the range. The package ships with a custom carrying case and dual-purpose strap. In addition the rifle barrel is drilled and tapped to hold the included scope mount base and hammer extension.

The Rossi Matched Pair line has set the standard for 2-barrel guns. The combination long gun package in unequalled, having been recognized as the best “youth-size” gun. Rossi starts with one of its popular single shot rifles, then hand fits a shotgun barrel to create the Matched Pair. The result is a highly reliable rifle with adjustable fiber optic sights and a button rifled barrel for enhanced accuracy, which quickly swaps barrels to become the favorite shotgun.

Ever since I first used a Rossi rifle I have been meaning to get one. In my opinion they look great and I love the simplicity.

There is an interesting discussion over at rec.guns about the best way to deal with a squirrel chewing on the roof. It is worth a read.

“Pumper Hinkle” sums up the options:

Hmmm. I understand your problem better now. For the squirrel to be
chewing on your roof, though, he must be sitting still for at least a
little bit.

I believe that if it were happening to me, I’d get a night vision scope for
the bolt-action .22 and sight it in using BB caps. I’d then set up a
sniper position and be patient. Once it stands still, bang.

Or, well, you could get a .410 shotgun and some light loads, and figguring
on patching the roof maybe.

Or, I believe you can fire .45 colt cartridges in a .410 shotgun, and I
believe you can get .45 snake loads.

As you’ve observed, the .22 snakeloads don’t cycle in autos, and the rifling
disperses the shot too much. I believe I once heard of a smoothbore .22,
which would give better range.

But I assume you don’t want to buy another gun, especially some sort of
specialty gun. So, back to first suggestion, night vision scope on the
.22.

I came across a great review of the Taurus 44-Ten Tracker .410 caliber revolver/shotgun.

How about penetration? Well, at all distances the shot pellets went through the board. However, logic tells us that they used up a lot of their force getting through the dense material. And, in home construction, there would be another piece of the same wall-board beyond. With the possible exception of the 1-yard shot, the pellets would likely not exit that one.

Getting back to serious business, would the Taurus 44-Ten Tracker be a good “house-gun?” Absolutely! It could be handled well by anyone, and shotshell loads would afford a little “margin of error” in aiming. For the more proficient, you could load it so the first three rounds were shot, then have two .45LC rounds, if necessary. And, we haven’t even considered the camping and hunting applications. The last word: High quality, reasonable price.

Read more here.