The Firearm Blog

Recently I questioned the effectiveness of suppressed shotguns. This is what a reader sent me ...

I read the article about the suppressed shotgun and your question about the effectiveness of the sound reduction. Then I remembered a brochure I picked up at the IWA guntrade-fair in Neurenberg-Germany some years ago about the Laporte Swing Trap shotgun with the integrated suppressor, which reduces 15 % noise with standard ammo and up to 75 % with subsonics. I can not validate this claim because I have only held the gun at the IWA and never fired it, but maybe it is of interest to the readers of the blog.

The company does not appear to manufacture them anymore.

UPDATE: Mark sent me the patent for the Laporte shotgun suppressor. It is an interesting design. Also of note is that the shotgun has a very short barrel (relative to the normal length of these trap guns). The PDF can be viewed after the jump.

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The actual gun used in the movies.

I have seen a couple of suppressed shotguns up close. They were pretty bulky and I wondered how effective the suppression would be with such a big caliber. For comparison: the area of the cross section of a 12 gauge bore is almost twice as large as .50 caliber bore!

This is not going to make customers happy ...

If you purchased a GSG 5 SD model with a barrel shroud (Fake Suppressor) ATF has now determined that this is regulated by the NFA and must be replaced. To all retail customers:

On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.

More info at Gun Trust Lawyer.

The new 300-SD for .300 Win. Mag. and .308 Win. is a baby version of the .338 LM TiTAN-QD. Unfortunately civilian sales are on hold until military contracts have been fulfilled.

By the way, AAC are advertising for an assembler position.

EmptorMaven asks why is range of 60 gr. ammunition so limited and where are the guns and barrels with the 1:12 rate of twist required to accuracy shoot these long 60 gr. bullets. From EmptorMaven's blog ...

.22LR is by far the most popular consumer cartridge. Every .22LR shooter with a silencer, and many without, would love to be able to buy reliable and accurate 60gr+ bullets, as well as threaded barrels with sufficient twist rates to stabilize them.

So my open question to the firearms industry is: Where are the reputable bullet manufacturers selling cases of plinking, varmint, and match-grade 60gr .22LR ammunition? And where in the vast marketplace of .22LR guns and parts are the 1:12 twist .22LR barrels with threaded muzzles to shoot those bullets?

Aguila 60 grain SSS Sniper Subsonic. Image from MidwayUSA

I think your only options right now are the Aguila 60 grain SSS Sniper Subsonic and, if you want anything resembling accuracy, a Volquartsen barrel for the Ruger 10/22. I imagine a lot of work would needed to be done on the 10/22 action to ensure if would cycle.

This photo, taken at a German Army artillery range, is not a fake.

The side expansion chambers will be to accommodate the blast of the cannon's muzzle brake.

I know what you are thinking: "WTF!".It was build to reduce noise to communities nearby. The vehicle pictured is the M109G 155mm self-propelled howitzer.

Many thanks to Sven for emailing it to me.

UPDATE: Thanks to Mark for these images of another German tank suppressor.

UPDATE: Daniel found a US patent that German defense firm Rheinmetall GmbH has on the design of cannon silencers.

Bonus style points for iPhone

You know someone is serious about shooting when the total cost of their spotting scopes are more than your car.

Yep it's a 6 inch objective and 50x (crazy wide field of view)

the other is a WW2 rangefinder that goes out to 20,000 yards!

More photos here.

By the way, who can tell me how "Cheytac" is pronounced? I have always said "shay tac" ("shay" as in "Che Guevara").

Hat Tip: SayUncle

Shooters Depot have developed an interesting suppressor design called the ARIES system. The actual suppressor is held two inches ahead of the muzzle by a free floating over-barrel heat sink.

The bottom photo shows the heat sink (the long tube), the suppressor (the short tube) and the barrels.

The Carbon Fiber heat shield tube attaches to the threads in the back of the barrel (by the receiver) and the front of the tube has 4 metal protrusions to keep the tube aligned. These protrusions are touching the barrel also working as an effective stabilizer for the barrel's harmonics and the extended tube is also working as a flash hider when the suppressor is not attached. The major benefit of the system is that the suppressor is attached to the threads inside the tube and stays 2 inches away from the barrel, not adding ANY weight to the muzzle (the weight is transferred to the thread near the receiver) so there is NO POINT OF IMPACT CHANGE.

16" and 14.5" AR-15

This design does not come cheap with prices starting at $2500!

Big thank you to Jesse for the link.

This was rumored and denied by founder Kevin Brittingham ( at least that is what I was told ) but the deal closed on 2 October and suppressor manufacturer AAC is now a division of Remington Military Products Division (MPD).

“We welcome Kevin and his team of engineers and designers on board,” commented Theodore (Ted) Torbeck, CEO of Remington and its parent, Freedom Group, Inc. “With the acquisition of AAC, we can enhance our research and development capabilities and deliver a more competitive product to the end user; further strengthening Remington’s position in the domestic and international markets.”

I think there will be many changes to AAC in the future. They have a unique company culture and I wonder if it will survive the Remington takeover.

AAC Advertisement.

Remington is owned by The Freedom Group, which is the firearm division of Cerberus Capital Management.

The Freedom Group's subsidiaries

UPDATE:

Jason from ACC has just posted this on the ACC blog ...

The crew that you know will still be here doing what we do. AAC is still AAC, but we will be moving into a brand new much larger space, and have access to more R&D and production resources than ever. We are really excited about what the future holds.

Don’t worry, we will continue to make cans for guns from every manufacturer and their various models- and stock and delivery issues will soon be a thing of the past! More news soon.

Surefire are attempting to carve out a new niche with their two new "tactical" suppressors. These tiny suppressors only add a few inches to an M4 Carbine or Colt Commando. Gear Scout reports:

Surefire snuck out two new 5.56mm suppressors at Modern Day Marine Expo. The Mini and the Micro are stubby little suckers that add barely 3.6 and 2.6 inches to a weapon’s muzzle but cut down weapon signature and improve unit communication.

There is nothing magical about suppressors and they are bound to the same laws of physics as everything else. While suppressor manufactures are continuously tweaking their cans in order to maximize the sound reduction vs. weight / size ratio, ultimately if you shrink a suppressor you will reduce its effectiveness.

I doubt these will be sold to civilians. I cannot think of a single good reason why a civilian would want to purchase one of these particular suppressors, when a suppressor a few inches longer will give much better performance.

UPDATE: I may have come across as anti-suppressor. I am not. I own two and hope to buy a third within a year. They are incredibly useful and there is no reason why civilian sales should be restricted. But these particular suppressors are tiny - smaller than my .22 Rimfire suppressor - the sound reduction would be minimal. I would call it a "sound reducer" rather than a "sound suppressor". What I meant to say is that I cannot think why a civilian would pay for these particular suppressors.

Many thanks to Jesse for the link.

SayUncle found a British company that makes suppressors for shotguns, including double barrel guns!

I once saw a suppressed semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun on display at a gun store. I remember being very impressed by the size of the can.

The MP5SD is the integrally suppressed version of the famous MP5 submachine gun. This video, taken by the THOR Group, shows just how silent the gun is.

Unlike most videos on YouTube the sound on this video is very clear and you can distinctively hear that a lot of the noise is caused by the bolt itself, rather than the escaping gas.

One of the reasons I love my suppressed .22 bolt gun is that there is no noise from the action other than the firing pin smashing the case rim.

Thanks to Max for the link.

Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC) have developed a new ultra high-end suppressor called the Ti-RANT. It weights about 1 oz less than their Evolution 9mm suppressor while offering greater sound reduction. This is achieved by using titanium and titanium alloys, hence the name Ti-RANT.

The specs are:
Weight: 8.6 OZ (244gm)
Length: 7.9” (201mm)
Diameter: 1.38” (35mm)
Finish: GunKote, T3 HARD COAT& SCARMOR
Sound Reduction: 35-38dB

The business end of the Ti-RANT

Of course the high-end construction and technology comes at a price. AAC will be selling it for $1195 shipped. That is about $300 more than the Evo 9.

More info at AAC

The fact that guns get dirty is is one of those unfortunate facts of life, along with death and taxes.

A piston operated gun will reduce the dirt that enters the rifle compared to a direct gas impingement gun (AR-15). When you add a suppressor, I think it makes little difference what type of gas system your rifle uses, it is going to get very dirty!

From the patent of an early model MP5SD suppressor.

A suppressor works by slowing down the gas through a series of baffles. The slower moving gas makes less noise as it is vented out of the can (can = slang for suppressor). The downside is that on a autoloading firearm once the action cycles and the spent cartridge is ejected there is more pressurize gas in the system than there would be without a suppressor. This gas, along with carbon, dirt, unburned power, is vented into the rifle action. Without a suppressor this still happens but the pressure inside the barrel is lower because the gas is vented faster.

“new-arguy” posted photos at AR15.com of his HK 416 upper (piston AR-15 upper), which had a AAC 416 suppressor attached, after firing 2000 rounds without cleaning.

This is my HK 416 upper, I ran it with an AAC 416 silencer at the last Magpul Dynamics class here in St Augustine. 2 days, 2000 rounds. I only took the silencer off the start of day 2 for a few drills, I would guess about 150 rounds. All the rest were with the can. I dropped some lube in the gun at the start of the class, aside from that, no cleaning, no oil, nothing at all. No problems either, well, not really. I will admit, I have run regular DI guns like this without problems, but I needed to keep dumping oil on the bolt group. In fact, one of the guys who works with me ran his Noveske N4 with a AAC M4 2000 right next to me the whole class. His gun ran fine as well, but he did keep dumping lube into the bolt carrier.

Anyway, the gun was fiilthy. I have never cleaned a gun that was so dirty. Grime and crud was seeping out between the upper and lower trying to escape. It is worth mention that a large piece of carbon built up and fell under my trigger group toward the end of the second night. I thought it was a primer, but when I opened the gun up and shoot the lower, it was plainly a piece of carbon. So technically, the gun did comletely fail. I have seen this same thing happen one other time, in another Magpul class (actually the one from the last DVD). My friend Derek was running a gun with a can on it for about as many rounds. Same thing, crud kept building up until some of it found its way under the trigger group.

bigbore, of adcofirearms.com, posted photos of his AK-74 rifle after firing 2000 rounds of corrosive ammunition using a suppressor and leaving it sit for a week.

After leaving it sit for a week, the bolt rusted into place and it was no more than a club.

A problem with some of the now discontinued Ruger Police Carbine and Marlin Deer Camp, blowback autoloader pistol caliber carbines, was that their actions got very dirty. A pistol in the same caliber with a 4″ barrel would vent gas much faster than a 16.5″ barreled carbine.

Ruger PC4 (Police Carbine .40 S&W).

There is no substitute for cleaning your rifle. If you are considering a suppressor this is something to take into account. Bolt/lever/single shot action rifle with suppressors will not have this problem. The gas will be vented before the action is manually cycled. I personally have not had any problems with .22 semi-autos rifles with suppressors, nor have I heard of anyone having problems.

Many thanks to Jay for emailing me the link to the photos.