[MSPO 2017] 53 000 Grot MSBS rifles for the for Polish Armed Forces

Over 600 companies from 30 countries around the World exhibited at the 24:th International Defence Industry Exhibition MSPO in Poland.

One national company was happy to announce a rather successful contract.

The Polish firearms manufacturer FB “Łucznik” Radomand and the Polish Ministry of Defense signed an agreement to build and deliver 53 000 Grot MSBS rifles. The rifles are in standard configuration in caliber 5,56×45 NATO.

It’s interesting to see that Poland developed a rifle of their own and now adopted it. It’s also interesting to see a design which can be configured both in a traditional way as well as bullp-up.

France went for a German rifle (HK 416F), leaving the FAMAS step-by-step.

Will Germany leave the HK G36 for a rifle made outside of Germany? I think not, but potentially the semi-German-Austrain Mannlicher-Steyr RS556 could make it.

Below: The looks in the classical configuration are very similar to the HK433 and FN SCAR.

I’ve never held a MSBS, but I understand the design is very clever. From what I’ve heard from people who bench marked it, it has a drawback in being heavier than others. The weight is specified as around 3.6-3.8 kg depending on configuration.

The specification (see bottom of page) says there is a 30 and 60 round capacity. It would be interesting to see which magazine they are using. Surefire, Magpul or something of their own design?

Note that there is a version in 7,62 NATO being developed.

 

The factory has a press release, auto translated below. The original source in Polish here.

MSBS TRAFI FOR EQUIPMENT Military Territorial Defense
05-09-2017


Arms Factory / Events participation / MSBS TRAFI FOR EQUIPMENT Military Territorial Defense

The first batch of over 53,000 pieces of the Modular Weapon System of the MSBS will soon arrive in the Polish army. Signed at the MSPO 2017, the contract worth several hundred million zlotys is the largest contract for the delivery of small arms after 1989.

At the same time, a new name for the rifle, now called The Grot, is presented.

The agreement between the Polish Armaments Group, which includes the “Łucznik” Arms Factory – Radom sp. Z o.o. and the Military Unit “NIL” was signed on Tuesday, September 5, 2017, during the XXV International Defense Industry Exhibition.

The contract concerns the purchase and delivery of the C16 FB-M1 rifle, which represents the carnage family known to date as the Modular Weapon System of the MSBS.

– This is a very important contract for the Arms Factory. I am glad that the negotiations have been successful and the contract has been signed. Polish weapon finally comes to the equipment of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland, Bbo it is worth remembering that the “Grot” carbine of the Modular Weapon System is a completely Polish construction jointly developed by the Arms Factory and the Military Academy of Technology. As President of the Arms Factory, I am very proud of it, “said Adam Suliga, President of the Management Board of Fabryka Arms” Łucznik “- Radom sp. Z o.o.

This is another recently signed contract of Arms Factory for delivery of “Grot” rifles for Polish Army. On August 31, an agreement was signed for the delivery of 490 pieces of 5.56 representative carabiners, still known as MSBS, at the Armaments Inspectorate. The contract value is PLN 5,538,400.00 gross. The contract is expected to be completed by November 30, 2017.

The specification of the rifle from the manufacturer’s source:

 

Grot MSBS – 5.56 MM MODULAR FIREARMS SYSTEM

RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT PROJECT
The MSBS – 5.56 is modular assault rifle system currently under development by the Fabryka Broni „Łucznik” – Radom. It is a state of the weapon platform with unique features.

The MSBS-5.56 is fully designed and manufactured in Poland. The modular firearms system with quick-change barrel is based on a common upper receiver for a conventional (with folding, telescopic stock) or bullp-up design.

Thanks to variety of modules the conventional and bullp-up design variants can be easily transformed into:

  • Assault rifle
  • Assault rifle with under barrel grenade launcher
  • Carbine
  • Carbine with under barrel grenade launcher
  • Designated marksman rifle
  • Light support weapon

The modular design also allows for adding further configurations in the future. A quick mission-tailored weapon down at the individual end-user level. Highly ergonomic and fully ambidextrous. The MSBS-5.56 assault rifle is fed by a 5.56 mm x 45 NATO intermediate cartridge, but a MSBS-7.62 battle rifle for 7.62 mm x 51 NATO rifle cartridge is also under development.

Below: Configured as bullp-up, and now looks more like a Kel Tec bullpp-up shotgun.

Technical data:

Cartridge: 5,56 x 45 mm NATO
Muzzle velocity: V0= 890 m/s
Muzzle energy: 1 600J
Action: gas-operated
Firing modes: single, 3-rounds burst, full auto
Rate of fire: 700÷900 strz./min.
Effective range: ~500 m
DIMENSIONS:
Length with stock extended/retracted: classical  design 900/843 mm
bull-pup design 675 mm
Barrel length: 406 mm
Rifling twist rate: 6/178 mm
Sights: mechanical and optoelectronic mounted on Picatinny rail
WEIGHTS:
Weapon empty: classical design 3650 g
bull-pup design 3750 g
Magazine capacity: 30, 60 rounds

 

R&D Project No O ROB 0034 03 001, provided by the Military University Technology and “Łucznik” – Radom Arms Factory, founded by the National Centre Research and Development from the science founds for years 2012 – 2016.

 

 

For more pictures of the Grot MSBS please check this link: http://strategie-technik.blogspot.se/2017/09/die-speerspitze-neues-sturmgewehr-grot.html?m=1





Eric B

Ex-Arctic Ranger. Competitive practical shooter and hunter with an European focus. Always ready to increase my collection of modern semi-automatic firearms, optics and sound suppressors. Owning the night would be nice too.


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  • UWOTM8

    That’s a good-looking rifle. Looks like an MDR when in bullpup form.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      I think you may be mistaking which came first.

      • UWOTM8

        Or I could just be saying that they look similar

  • Brett baker

    When do we get the look-alike?!

    • James

      Not for awhile according to Ted Marshall.

      It is with great regret that I must announce that FB USA Texas is no longer in operation. FB USA Texas was dissolved May 8, 2017. The inability of FB Radom Poland to meet US requirements has forced the dissolution of the US company. It is my hope that the “new” management at FB Radom will enable future opportunities for doing business within the US. As you may know, I represented FB Radom and FB USA Texas at several Shot Shows in the past, and at the 2017 Shot Show. I continue to believe that FB Radom produces a superior product. I will advise you of any changes or future opportunities, but will not be responding to any additional inquiries.

      • TheUnspoken

        That is disappointing, I was hoping the msbs might be the Masada/ACR that we never got, but sounds like it is a continuation of guns we won’t get. The CZ 805 Bren is cool but hoping for the 806 to show up in the next couple years. Or the 433 would be nice.

        As for what mags they might use, I see in the related links below…

        “Fabryka Broni Releases MSBS Polymer Magazines”

        • James

          yeah I am disappointed to.

          The CZ 806 is supposedly coming to market as a pistol by the end of 2018. So we have that to look forward to.

      • Chris22lr

        Closure of “Lucznik” Texas subsidiary doesn’t mean that there would be no imports of their products in future. In fact there are rumors that one US importer may bring Beryls to US market in next year or two.

        However Grot importation was never seriously considered by “Lucznik” – there is no regular civilian version yet, and US market (due to 922r) need it’s own variant. Also new management seems to be more cautious when it comes to probable profits from US sales (previous management was overoptimistic and it backfired when ATF said no to Beryls).

  • Jeremy

    Nice new rifles you got there.

    Be a shame if someone were to adapt a case-telescoped, polymer ammo weapons system and forcing that to be the new NATO standard, just when you finally managed to standardize.

    • Rasputin

      At which point the MSBS, 433s and whatever else is in use is all shot to sh*t and ready to be replaced anyway.

    • Major Tom

      Meh, they’ll probably be convertible to the new ammo.

      • Mechanism

        HAHAHA no they arent

        • Samuel Millwright

          Considering that knight’s armament already has patents on essentially an AR upper CT conversion unit …. Yeah they actually might do just that…

          P.s. the m16 has been retrofitted to fire MUCH WEIRDER and vastly more inappropriate ammo concepts than CT so… Yeah, that worked just fine and if THAT worked CT really isn’t even an issue.

        • neoritter

          They have a design in the works for a 7.62 caliber. So a new one with a new caliber probably wouldn’t be too hard to do.

  • Thom S

    “It’s interesting to see that Poland developed a rifle of their own and now adapted it”

    Have they adapted it, or adopted it?

    • DangerousClown

      They gave the bullp-up a new home.

      Once, it’s a typo. Multiple times, it’s just sloppy writing, and no editor even giving it a glance.

  • Nikita Stakhanov
  • N8ballnhv

    If they’re going to phase the Beryl out, they could use pretty much everything except the reciever, since we have to have semi-auto recievers, and build more Archer rifles for the U.S. market. I missed the boat on those and I’m still kicking myself over it.

    • cahir

      Chances for that are slim to none, Poland still has rather large AKM stock pile. Beryls will get fixed and put in storage, replacing them.

      • N8ballnhv

        Hey, don’t crush my dreams!

      • int19h

        A fresh stock of Polish AKMs on the market wouldn’t hurt, either.

      • Chris22lr

        You’ve got it wrong: AKMSes will get into storage, and Beryls will be issued to Land Forces. Between 1996 and 2015 there were around of 50.000 Beryls produced, which is half of assault rifles used by Land Forces. In other words – 20 years wasn’t enough to make Beryl a standard issued rifle.

        In 2016 and 2017 another batch of Beryls was ordered – around 70.000 rifles total. That’s more than whole Beryl production up to 2016.

        So Beryl is here to stay and AKMSes will get stock piled and gradually sold as it is done today.

        • cahir

          No, I got nothing wrong. Polish Land Forces have 57000 (entire Armed Forces are ~100000) soldiers, out of that many are issued submachine guns rather than assault rifles. Currently there are around 80000 beryls in service, and 15000 PM-86P, PM-96 submachine guns.

          Furthermore Polish Armed Forces already signed agreement for 14000 Titan future soldier kits, which includes MSBS, and new service pistol. Those should be delivered by 2022. So, no I was not wrong, beryl will slowly replace AKM is storage. those large Beryl orders were made with one purpose in mind, to push out all 7,62x39mm rifles out of Polish Armed Forces in next few years.

    • UWOTM8

      More Tantals?

      • N8ballnhv

        The more AK and AK variants the merrier!

  • Lt M

    “The looks in the classical configuration are very similar to the HK433 and FN SCAR.”

    You mean Masada/ACR.

    • GermanSausage

      And the ACR is a melange of HK G36 and SCAR and others, that were developed before 2006.

      • Lt M

        Not disputing, merely stating that the MSBS is aesthetically more akin to the Masada.

    • Maximilian Johannes Benning

      He’s not wrong, though?

  • Lupinsea

    So . . . looks like a ACR.

    Has nearly an identical control layout as an ACR.

    Has a nearly identical feature set as an ACR.

    Weighs as much as an ACR. . . .

    Why not just get an ACR? They’re readily available under $1600 these days and they are a fantastic rifle.

    Same argument for the HK 433 . . .

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Do you really want all the reasons to not get an ACR? Because there are plenty.

      • Lupinsea

        I’m well aware of the reasons to NOT get an ACR. I did plenty of research and many of them are based on out dated info or (IMO) overblown. The rifle really does deserve another look.

        1. Early production problems have been sorted out and it’s now a very reliable rifle that has been on the market for about 7 years.

        2. The sky high launch price and current MSRP are irrelevant when market prices on the rifles are under $1600, within $100 of the original price suggested by Magpul.

        3. The caliber conversions never materialized, which is a shame and a let down. But anyone going into the rifle now should be under no illusions about this and should consider the rifle as-is.

        4. It’s about 1 lb. heavier than the SCAR 16 but within 3-6 oz. of the MSBS above or the HK 433 and about the same as the Bren 805. Yeah, ok. For those humping the rifle over the hills and plains I get this. But for probably most of us that go to and from the range is this that big of a deal?

        5. The ACR does have a more forward weigh balance but it’s 1/2″ in front of the mag well. When I compared this to a half dozen other rifles, their balance point was somewhere within the mag well. So the ACR’s balance point is about 1.5″ more forward.

        What did I miss?

        On the flip side, the rifle has similar feature sets to:

        FN Scar 16
        CZ Bren 805
        Robinson XCR
        FB Grot MSBS
        HK 433

        In particular, these rifles offer:

        Monolithic aluminum upper receiver
        Full-length pic rail
        Piston driven gas system
        Side charging handle
        Telescoping and folding butt stocks
        Full ambidextrous controls

        If you’re looking for factory goodies, Bushmaster my not have different calibers but it does offer:

        Two color options
        Two different styles of hand guards
        Three different types of stocks (fixed, folding, DMR)
        Four different barrel lengths (in 5.56mm)

        All of which can be swapped in and out within a couple minutes without any tools.

        Oh, and compared the above on price. Scar 16? Robinson XCR? I’ve seen some Bren 805’s come close, as in a couple hundred dollars more. And the HK 433 ad MSBS aren’t even available on the U.S. market if they ever will be.

    • Chris22lr

      ACR can’t convert between bullpup and conventional configurations. And for many years Polish Armed Forces R&D (mainly at WAT – Military Academy of Technology where Grot was designed) was very interested in bullpups.

      Also Polish Military Intelligence already uses ACR – apparently there are issues with servicing of the guns (no spare parts etc.), or so I’ve heard.

      • Lupinsea

        True, no bullpup conversion. But if you like the standard MSBS configuration it’s amazingly similar to the ACR. Amazingly similar. And if you want that, then, consider the ACR as I have no idea when the MSBS might be available stateside.

        I’ll defer to you on the Polish M.I.’s use of ACR and their experience with it. Frankly, I’ve not really heard of any service adopting the ACR. I didn’t think it was a thing.

        x2 on the difficulty of spare parts access. They could be difficult to come by. From what I understand Bushmaster produces the ACR in batches rather than have year-round production. When their produced supply gets low, they run another batch. But they do produce it. I’ve also heard the parts availability is getting better.

        It’s not a perfect rifle by any means and it has a history. But I also think it should be resconsidered is all. The rifles produced now are damn nice.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    It was heavy and clunky. Fit and finish wasn’t there. Trigger was bad.

    That was 2014, maybe it’s gotten better, IDK.

  • Klaus Von Schmitto

    Nice. Now let’s see 53 thousand Polish AK parts kits show up.

    • UWOTM8

      Oh pls?

    • Chris22lr

      Why? This contract is for newly-formed Territorial Defense Forces, fifth branch of Polish Armed Forces. TDF, being a new creation, have almost no equipment, and even what they have is mostly borrowed from Land Forces. That’s why they’re getting Grot.

      Adoption of Grot by Land Forces will take some more time: either a lot, or not so much, nobody knows at this moment.

  • Adam D.

    Good for the Poles, man!
    They’ve built a nice system, and this first contract is probably just the beginning
    of a long term procurement process.

    The standard configuration is a nice allround rifle, while the bullpup will be a good solution for guys needing a compact gun.
    The 7.62×51 version holds even more promise.

    In my opinion the Masada/ACR as a system still is the best “new generation”
    standard configuration rifle out there, and I’m saying this after being lucky enough to have the HK 416, the SIG 516, the SCAR16S, the CZ Bren first gen and the G36 gone through my hands. Magpul really nailed this system back in the late 2000’s.
    The Poles knew where to turn for inspiration.

    If I were in place of the German military, I’d definitely take a hard look at the 433,
    but the Polish guys already had the MSBS system, so why pay to HK or others.
    They can always look for new methods to make their system a bit lighter, but what’s really important is that they have a sound foundation to build upon.
    Nice choice if you ask me!

    • Chris22lr

      Actually, any similiarity between Grot and ACR is only aesthetic. Internals (bolt carrier group) are clearly inspired by G36.

  • Chris22lr

    Contract obliges FB “Lucznik” to deliver 53.000 Grot rifles (C16 FB-M1 configuration which means conventional variant with 16 inch barrel – no bullpups or heavy barrel precision rifles) to newly formed Territorial Defense Forces. First 1.000 rifles delivered in 2017. Rifles are equipped with 8 magazines (regular AR-15 type), bayonet, sling, toolkit and conversion set to fire Simunition ammo.

    However, this is not the first contract for Grot/MSBS rifles. In 2016 MoD ordered MSBS-R rfiles for Honor Guard – these are blank-firing-only ceremonial guns with 20 inch barrels and reinforced stocks. But even earlier, in 2014, MoD ordered 11.000 of Tytan “future soldier” sets which includes MSBS. But because Tytan development is turbulent, it won’t be finished and certified until 2018.

    MoD couldn’t order MSBS apart of Tytan (well, they could, but rifle certification is still tied to Tytan so no deliveries), and they had to order Beryls for Land Forces. The new TDF instead uses SF procurement system, so they are not forced to wait for certification process to end. And that’s why they’ve got Grot first, before Land Forces.

    Also: Grot means “arrowhead” and it refers not only to FB “Lucznik” name (“Lucznik” means “Archer”), but also to underground nickname of Polish WW2 general Stefan “Grot” Rowecki, commander of Home Army, killed by Germans in 1944. New name breaks the tradition of naming rifles after chemical elements and minerals.