Opinion: The Sig P320 Drop Test Controversy & “Failures” is NOT a Big Deal

OMG! SIG P320 HANDGUNS CAN FIRE WHEN DROPPED IN EXTREMELY UNLIKELY AND NEAR IMPOSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES! THIS MEANS THE GUN SUCKS AND THE ARMY WAS WRONG!

Or not?

By the time this is published, much of the hub-ub and hoopla of the firearms media industry will have largely died out and the Sig P320’s reputation will have suffered immensely for in my opinion – a non-incident. A tester, known to have published a variety of often highly negative opinions and then inflaming them posted a negative and inflammatory video where they would not sell a product because of “safety” concerns.

Here’s the skinny – Sig DID test the P320 and it PASSED all of the various DoD, NIJ, ANSI, Cal DoJ, and various other drop-safety standards. Further, they tested the weapon well BEYOND those standards working to ensure the weapon is a pinnacle of safety. By any objective measure of “reasonableness” Sig is nearly insane for the above and beyond testing, they opted to go through. If they were to test every angle of every condition, there would be almost 50,000,000 permutations – an impossible number to complete.

Now, Sig is scrambling to contain an inflamed PR nightmare over various “tests” conducted to no formal standard (which the original video reviewer admits as such). To showcase this, they are again going above and beyond any reasonable standard by offering a full replacement and upgrade program for products that, again, passed, all objective safety standards.

To me, this entire situation is a completely overblown circus of media frenzy on not enough information and poor perspective. Sig Sauer’s handing of this showcases them as a class-act and we all just need to “Move Along”

For additional details on the exact situation and steps Sig is taking, they held a media day and basically “pulled down the shorts” for the non-experts to inspect. Details over at SoldierSystems. 



Frank.K

TFB’s FNG. Completely irreverent of all things marketing but a passionate lover of new ideas and old ones well executed. Enjoys musing on all things firearms, shooting 3-gun, and attempting to be both tacticool AND tactical.


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  • EdgyTrumpet

    Should’ve gone with CZ :^)

  • Sausage

    WOW. The TFB Glock fan boys didn’t kill this article. Let the millennial’s start their lecturing about all things Glock and displaying their VAST experience about firearms and testing.

    • Michael Gallagher

      I agree, beginning to think that TFB is on Glocks PR departments payroll.

      • no skin in the game

        sure feels like it when TFB posts a 5 day old story with none of the Sig updates in to their Facebook page.

        • koolhed

          Skin
          In
          Game

          • Aaron

            Legit capture koolhed! He accuses people of being fanboys of Glock when more than likely the people railing hard are the ones that understand that more than a century worth of drop safe pistol design we as firearm owners and enthusiasts should not be subjected to flawed design.

          • no skin in the game

            does not excuse TFB posting a story with NO updates of what has happened in the past 5 days onto Facebook UNEDITED today – there was very significant updates since Patrick first wrote that story that needed to have been included.

            That is pure click bait and lacks any journalist integrity to do so

      • They’ve always been, Patrick in particular has been anti-320 for quite a while now. So I am not surprised to see his name on a number of these beating of a dead horse stories.

    • Mrninjatoes

      Those millennials are going to be paying your Medicare and Social Security. They also have to fix the world you baby boomers ***** up. Show some respect. Your Sig 320 is not drop safe.

      • Sausage

        I don’t have a sig 320, I paid for my own social security and medicare, the only thing we f***ed up was the way the we raised know-it-all millennials.

  • Joshua Graham

    Yeah, cops are getting shot when they drop their P320s and numerous people are reproducing it, but it’s totally not a big deal.

    Even 1911s, at least the Colt Series 80s and Springers, have been configured to survive a drop without going off AND THEY DO SO SUCCESSFULLY.

    • Just Say’n

      One cop got shot when they dropped their holstered P320 (that I am aware of). No tellin’ how the holster contributed. I’m guessing every other brand is associated multiple ADs per week for various reasons in PDs across the U.S.
      No such thing as “100% drop safe”.

      • no skin in the game

        the details on that ONE in the wild incident is iffy – in a holster, attached to a belt and it somehow finds the wrong angle……

        no system is 100% safe but it’s also not the first time a cop might be stretching the truth and his lawyer taking advantage of the noise to force a settlement – don’t forget the lawyer gets a REALLY big chunk of that.

        • Indianasteve

          Not the first time a company is not truthful either. You can say a police officer is not being truthful, but never Sig ?

      • CommonSense23

        Please show me these brands that are having multiple ADs, and not NDs per week.

      • Vosh Sahaal

        Trigger guard retention. The holster pulled the trigger.

    • neoritter

      Has anyone tested this EXACT drop with those pistols?

  • Joshua Graham

    “i’m not owned! i’m not owned!!”, the sig fanboy continues to insist as he accidentally drops his P320 and gets a bullet through the knee.

  • flyingburgers

    “f they were to test every angle of every condition, there would be almost 50,000,000 permutations – an impossible number to complete.”

    This is the non-engineering Mythbusters approach. Test without thinking, forget about theory. Even without that, the rest of the world has things called computers, finite element simulation software, Monte Carlo analysis…

    Car companies do thousands of virtual crash tests with supercomputers accounting for millions of individual elements, where major gunmakers drop their gun 6 times on the floor. No wonder firearms are stuck in the last century.

    • Madcap_Magician

      I think Sig is handling this reasonably well so far, but I think the “There’s no way to test every angle!” line is a flimsy excuse. Yes, there’s not really any practical way to thoroughly test every possible angle in which a dropped gun could land, but LANDING ON A HARD SURFACE ON THE BACK OF THE SLIDE IS ONE PERMUTATION THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO CAUSE A DISCHARGE IF THE GUN IS NOT ACTUALLY DROP SAFE.

      Not all of those 50,000,000 permutations are the same!

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    I may not be the worlds foremost expert on firearms but youre saying its fine that you can whack it on the -ss and make it fire…?

    • no skin in the game

      no, he is saying that internet conspiracy theorists and glock fanboys hurt about their toy not being the M17 are blowing this out of proportion with no evidence to support some of the crap being posted

      Sig saw the videos, had no previous evidence of drop test failures and it under 5 days did some 2200 drops and published they will have a fix rolling out.

      but apparently that’s not good enough or as fun as continuing to flog a dead horse or accusing Sig of conspiracy

      • m-dasher

        ….its not a conspiracy…..and there are DOZENS of videos showing the 320 firing when the trigger isnt pulled….

        i dont care if its Sig, Glock, HK, SW…….ANY gun that fires under any condition when the trigger isnt pulled is a big deal, and quite frankly, an usafe firearm.

        anyone claiming otherwise is simply a fanboy who refuses to accept the truth.

        • no skin in the game

          all of those videos were made in the LAST 5 days by people like Patrick and his patently absurd hammer test so they could say “ME TOO!!!!”

          The only site being level headed and actively speaking to Sig properly has been TTAB

          • m-dasher

            it doesnt matter when they came out……theres no denying that the videos show the situation happening.

            you have no argument here

          • no skin in the game

            yes I do when you try to claim videos produced inside the last few days as somehow evidence that Sig knew and was hiding a problem…..

            the fact that I am not arguing the existence of the problem but pointing out there is zero data to suggest Sig knew about it is the difference that seems to escape you and those accusing Sig of some sort of conspiracy

          • Kivaari

            It is the fact that SIG has a fix ready to go already. If it was unknown to them, the fix wouldn’t be ready today, oh next Monday.

          • Kivaari

            SAAMI uses a hammer test. SAAMI.org/test standards

      • feetpiece _

        Many of us knew better after getting burned by the Swiss knockoffs Sig dumped on the General Pooblic.

        Hopefully using consumers to save on R&D shutters Sig USA this time. Then we can get back to coveting German and Swiss works of art.

  • Oregon213

    You can say Sig did adequate testing and missed something but, “Sig is nearly insane for the above and beyond testing” is clearly an overstatement. If they’d gone above and beyond to nearly to the point of insanity I expect they would have caught this.

    Its understandable that a manufacturer missed something, less understandable to say they didn’t miss something that has now presented itself as a real thing.

    • no skin in the game

      are you a QA engineer? Ever had anything to do with testing against standards like 810?

      They found it, tested it 2200 times according to their published data (using a real rig) and have a fix.

      They have handled this quickly and quite well given the complexity of the testing and system we are talking about.

      its the internet/glock fanboy conspiracy nuts who are push the grand conspiracy theories because that is so much more fun to believe than the fact that Engineering is hard

      • koolhed

        “Engineering is hard”—TRUE

        SIG ‘engineered’ and sold a pistol that wasn’t properly tested—TRUE

        • no skin in the game

          agreeing with you 100%

          its the wild a$$ claims being made about Sig that is the issue.

        • Flash Gordon

          How was the P320 not properly tested?

          • koolhed

            Two pistols are for sale and immediate use by the public:

            “Pistol A” fires a cartridge reliably when it’s trigger is pulled. It does not fire a cartridge when it is dropped or struck with a sharp blow.

            “Pistol B” fires a cartridge reliably when it’s trigger is pulled, but it also fires a cartridge when dropped or struck with a blow.

            Q: Which pistol has been properly tested?

          • Chelovek RuBear

            one addition to A – when dropped at an unusual angle. Most tests are done from 80/20 perspective – emphasis is always on important 80% since there are never enough resources, time or money. This is from a person that did QA for 12+ years. PS: What about Glock issues in 2009…?

      • Toxie

        If you think they engineered and produced parts THAT quickly you’re a bit naive. They likely ALREADY knew about the problem and were working on a fix.

        • no skin in the game

          the parts are the ones from the M17 that were changed for an entirely different set of reasons (like contract requirements, trigger feel etc) but their reduced mass and other changes also fix this.

          Nothing published by Sig or the extensive interviews by TTAB shows they knew there was a problem

          But sure don’t let that stop pushing a conspiracy theory

          • chedolf

            the parts…from the M17…were changed for an entirely
            different set of reasons (like contract requirements, trigger feel etc)

            So they say. For liability reasons, it’s unlikely Sig would admit they’d already engineered a fix because they were aware of the drop issue.

            From Soldiersystems: “While the MHS passed DoD’s TOP 3-2-045 test with the trigger currently in the commercial P320, SIG proposed an enhanced trigger via Engineering Change Request E0005.”

            Did Sig take the initiative to propose this, or was it in response to a DoD request?

          • Risky

            The way it is worded with “SIG proposed” I would venture to say that it was SIG’s idea after they discovered the drop failures with the original trigger. I suspect they didn’t want to risk losing the MHS, but they also didn’t want to initialize a recall for the already sold P320’s… so they engineered a change with the MHS under some guise of ‘enhanced performance’ and got it approved by the Army while trying to hope the real issue in the P320 would never come to light. All evil corporation speculation, of course… which SIG is starting more and more to reveal.

        • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

          I would take a guess that they started investigating and working on this back when they first heard it about it at the beginning of the year. Maybe they were almost ready to release a solution anyway and then this happens and their timeline was accelerated.

          But no. Definitely a conspiracy.

      • john huscio

        “its the internet/glock fanboy conspiracy nuts who are push the grand conspiracy theories because that is so much more fun to believe than the fact that Engineering is hard”

        Looks like we’ve got our very own alex jones here…..

  • MrBrassporkchop

    Na, I think I’ll keep making a big deal about it.

    -Sincerely
    Owner of a model of Taurus that never had any of the drop/shake problems but still got poop-posted whenever I mentioned my pistol.

  • Joshua Graham

    Also, brand loyalty is goddamn dumb. You think they give a crap about you? All companies need to be taken to task for poor quality.

  • Kevin Riley

    The truth is that, just like in Watergate, it’s not about the “crime” it’s about the cover-up. Sig KNEW there was a potential problem, corrected it in the military version, denied there were issues with the civilian version even though there was video proof of the claims, and then had to backpedal and say they already had a solution for the problem and offered a “voluntary” fix. And now they’ve apparently stopped production temporarily on the 320.

    This whole mess reminds me of the debacle that Alien Gear Holsters had a couple weeks ago. They messed up, they lied, they deleted, apologized several times and had the gall to remove their Review and ranking system from the website because of all the negative feedback.

    • no skin in the game

      there is NO publicly available data that supports this – only wild internet conspiracy theories and those who were Trolling their feedback system because of that.

      • Kevin Riley

        BS – The Truth About Guns did a drop test and proved it. Video is on their website. In fact, reps from TTAG visited Sig just a few days ago and discussed the issue with Sig.

        • no skin in the game

          actually that’s NOT what TTAG is saying – read the post again and the changes being made in the M17 have the effect of fixing this but they were not engineered specifically to do so.

          TTAG has not accused them of hiding it at all – that is internet conspiracy lovers making a leap because that is so much more fun that understanding Sig’s internal QA continual improvement processes.

          • Toxie

            And again, it’s HIGHLY UNLIKELY didn’t JUST learn about, engineer, test, design and machine new parts in FIVE days. They likely already knew about the problem and were already designing a fix prior to this coming to light.

            One of the two scenarios is true – I know which is more likely.

          • no skin in the game

            they DIDN’T machine new parts and there was at least one other optional trigger which even OO showed did NOT have this issue.

            But sure lets not believe that the trigger group from the M17 which already exists, doesn’t have the problem and is ramping up to be made in very large numbers wouldn’t be the fix…..

            it is just mind boggling those who just love to run to yell conspiracy and say they were hiding it rather than what Sig is saying.

          • MIke H

            This.

            The new M17 trigger upgrades were made for different reasons. TTAG was VERY upfront in their article about that fact, as well as the fact that Sig planned on offering those upgrades to the general public soon all along. It just so happens the upgrades unintentionally fixed the drop fire issue. It’s purely just dumb luck, but presents a ready to go fix that Sig can offer immediately.

            Just calling it a “free upgrade” the way they are, however, should get the head of PR fired.

  • Flash Gordon

    What will make or break this for Sig is who will cover the cost of the “upgrade”. If it is the consumer, I don’t think Sig will be able to bounce back well from that one. For those of us with investments in the P320 system, this means multiple iterations of each firearm. The cost would start to become hard to stomach. The resale value of the P320 will also suffer. Want to buy ads will now have to specify “upgraded”. This is an all around loser for the consumer from min 1.

  • Johnsmyname
    • Ark

      This entire shitshow was worth it just for the memes.

      • MIke H

        I don’t care if I’m a Sig fan-boy with a P320… this here is just funny.

        • Mike Lashewitz

          Yes, yes it is!

    • john huscio

      Ironic since sheildman has a p226

      • Oregon213

        Which is such a better looking gun than the 320, seriously. And looks are all that matter in guns.

  • junyo

    Where is this grand utopian place where government tests are absolute, infallible, and never revised?
    #ProceduresWereFollowed #LeaveSiggieAlone!

    • Flash Gordon

      The Omaha video makes it look easy. Sig tests every which way they can and then some. Omaha comes along and the first 2 min of their video seems to in a swooping fashion dispel Sigs ad copy and internet loar is propagated. It is a sweep to the knees. I think many believe under no circumstances should their be a malfunction or failure of any kind. But you and I know that is an impossibility. I don’t believe in utopias.

      • Indianasteve

        Sig has demonstrated that you cannot believe everything they say.

  • pliablemoose

    Current “scandals” are blown up with social media, everyone’s plugged in and has an opinion now days. It wasn’t the case in the past.

  • CommonSense23

    A weapon marketed as a duty and military firearm that isn’t drop safe is a big deal. Weapons get dropped, they get hit, they get abused. Just cause they past standards is a a bull excuse. Its like the G36 and it’s heat dispersion. It also seems Sig new about this and sat on it.

    • Evan

      it was never advertised as having a drop safety, but it did meet drop tests.
      Words matter. Especially in the legal realm, kiddo.

      • ING

        lol wow, that’s a really dumb argument – kiddo.

        • no skin in the game

          any weapon, even a Glock will go off if you drop it in the right way.

          Just because that might not be a real life scenario, still means the Glock also cannot claim 100% true

          No mechanical system can make that claim

          • m-dasher

            by design, the only way a glock will go off if dropped is if something pulls the trigger.

            the firing pin is mechanically blocked, and the block is only removed when the trigger is pulled full to the rear.

            that and due to the way the trigger is designed the glock trigger cannot “pull its self from inertia” or whatever BS you guys are claiming about the sig…..

            sorry fanboy….but you are dead wrong( again) and the 320 sucks.

          • John

            “even a Glock will go off if you drop it in the right way”

            Can you prove this with a video or some credible testimony or…anything.

          • Risky

            You obviously don’t know how any of these safety systems work.

      • CommonSense23

        Yeah, Sig has Sig passed all the industrie standards. Yeah. But they sure are going to take a huge hit to their reputation and bottom line by pushing a weapon that is unsafe.

      • Kivaari

        It is assumed that all of the pistols are drop safe if sold to police and the self defense crowd.

    • john huscio

      Sig fans are oblivious to murphys law.

      • CommonSense23

        I’m a Sig fan. I even got a 224 which I love. But this isn’t the 80s were you can pull a Beretta and throw out some misdirection and it becomes lore like they did with the flying slides. If Sig would have came out immediately and been like, hey we tested to the industry standards, they exceeded them. We just got to locked into the standards. We will solve this at no cost to consumers, and hold higher standards this would be a lot better for Sig. But they keep sticking to the line it’s safe cause of industry standards, which apparently the standards suck.

        • Risky

          Also the line that perfectly drop safe pistols ‘legitimize mishandling’. So the more dangerous the pistol, the safer people with handle it? If that inverse logic is true then we should just ditch all safeties and affix a 2 lb trigger to them all. Would eliminate all accidents because everyone would be afraid to carry them!

      • Juice

        If you drop a P320, it always lands with the buttered side facing down?

  • Friend of Tibet

    “Sig Sauer’s handing of this showcases them as a class-act and we all just need to “Move Along””

    So:
    DPD recall, Sig:” Our pistol will always be drop safe, moves alone!”

    Omaha outdoor video showed up, Sig:”We will provide free upgrade”

    Question about US military pistol contract safety? Sig:”The military version don’t have this problem, we knew these issues all alone and already fixed them”

    And the author think this is a good PR showcase? what are you smoking?

    • no skin in the game

      and you are throwing out a conspiracy theory which is entirely without any evidence – that they knew about it and fixed this in the M17 which has significant differences mechanically

      but hey anything for a good conspiracy theory over the fact that this is a edge case that the standards don’t catch.

      • Friend of Tibet

        conspiracy theory?

        You mean the offcial words from Sig:

        “While the MHS passed DoD’s TOP 3-2-045 test with the trigger currently in the commercial P320, SIG proposed an enhanced trigger via Engineering Change Request E0005.”

        “Taylor laid it out, “There is a vulnerability with the P320 at the -30deg drop.” They plan to incorporate the trigger enhancements for the M17 into the P320. ”

        I am not sure what kind of drug you are smoking but if you treat Sig’s interview published article on Soldier Systems daily as conspiracy, well….. I don’t know what to say.

        • Toxie

          Annnnddd they likely don’t want to call it a recall due to currently pending litigation related to a flaw discovered in their design.

        • no skin in the game

          that ECR was to fix the trigger pull issue and the M17’s trigger has some very significant differences due to contract requirements.

          Sorry but the truth is no where near as sexy as believing a conspiracy theory

          • Friend of Tibet

            “They plan to incorporate the trigger enhancements for the M17 into the P320” I guess your fancy “significant differences” did not stop Sig to put these triggers into P320…..

            You are the one keep mention about conspiracy theory, and in denial of a poor PR reaction. Put your tin foil hat down and admit Sig made a PR mistake and overlook an issue, it’s simple.

          • no skin in the game

            I have never said they didn’t have a PR nightmare on their hands and the way some people like Patrick were posting this meant there was no right way to handling this and not have a problem

            What I am saying is all the posts on TFB and other place accusing SIg of knowing this problem existed and hiding it are saying so with NO evidence to do so. Sig is on record multiple places with credible journalists saying they did not have evidence of this fault until a few days ago.

            the difference in the logic between those two paragraphs are profound.

            but hey you clearly believe Sig has no credibility so don’t but their stuff but that does not make accusing them of lying true

          • john huscio

            For having “no skin in the game”…….you seem to have alot of skin in this particular game….

          • no skin in the game

            oh and Sig has already said they were planning on making the change to the M17 trigger across the range….

            but oh course you and other are going to yell conspiracy and “see they knew” rather than the actually more likely and simpler logic of economies of scales…….

          • Kivaari

            I base it on the BS they told Dallas PD between the time the guns were withdrawn from service and the new videos.

  • dbriannelson

    When did the “drop safe” thing start? 1956 with the Ruger revolver transfer bar? 1980 with Colt’s beloved Series 80 1911’s?

    Lord Almighty, what did we ever do before then? Learn not to drop guns, I suppose.

    • PK
      • MikeA

        That’s awesome.
        “…best revolvers, shotguns, and _bicycles_ you can get…”

    • Bill

      Any gun that doesn’t have an active, positive lock on the firing pin is technically not drop safe. That’s a huge number of handguns, rifles and shotguns. And yet the incredibly vast majority of them manage not to kill us.

    • koolhed

      “…what did we ever do before then?”

      We lost quite a few people to ADs… THAT’S what we did!

    • m-dasher

      cars didnt have seatbelts and airbags for decades…..im guessing given the choice between a car with an air bag, and the same car without one…..youre gonna ask for the one with an airbag.

      just because firearms USED to be unsafe in certain circumstances, doesnt mean we have to accept it now.

      stop trying to dismiss a dangerous situation

  • 201am

    The way Sig is handling this is the reason they are taking a PR beating. It isn’t the 90s anymore.

  • Nick T

    Wow, how much is sig paying you. I gun has to be able to be dropped and not fired otherwise you might try catching the gun as it falls in fear it may go off once it hits the ground. And trying to catch a falling gun is always a bad idea.

  • Rnasser Rnasser

    It is a GLARING design flaw… Nobody wants a pistol discharging after a simple low altitude drop that landed just right, pointing into your face.

    In all seriousness, the cover up is the worst part.

    If a high percentage of random internet punks can make the pistols go bang with a few drop tries, or a few taps with a small gunsmith hammer; I don’t buy it that a bunch of very intelligent and knowledgeable people, with plenty of time and resources, fighting for the largest .mil pistol contracts in the last 30 years did not find about this flaw long ago.

    • no skin in the game1

      what cover up – that is pure internet forum conspiracy theories

      Nothing in the public domain proves this, just people’s love for a conspiracy over the truth that was a corner case not in the drop spec standard

      • m-dasher

        youre an idiot…..

        sig is remedying the situation with parts from the MHS guns…..meaning they knew about the issue when they were working on the MHS guns and didnt do anything about it until they were forced to.

        • no skin in the game

          again you are claiming that with no facts in evidence to support that and in direct contradiction to what Sig has said more than once.

          Their interactions with groups like TTAB who did not have some ax to grind does not support your claim

        • Vosh Sahaal

          Actually they just ran the test on a P320 and an M17 and the 17 didn’t discharge.

          • Indianasteve

            Who is they ? And what did they do ? Drop a gun and it didn’t fire.

          • Vosh Sahaal

            Sign, and yes. They’re QA team just had to test all existing variants and got lucky.

  • Risto Kantonen

    I acknowledge your opinion and discard it as irrelevant in the face of growing body of evidence from multiple experiments that produce the problem, experiments that come from multiple different independent sources. It is thus a demonstrable fact, that there is a problem. You are simply being intellectually dishonest.

    And for the record, i do not own or operate a Glock or any other firearm for that matter, i am simply an advocate of science and factual represtations of real world phenomenons.

    • Felt Recoil

      Risto – your logic will find few friends here! #sarcasm #WeAgreeWithYou

  • John

    I’m sorry but I will not take lightly the possibility that the tool I chose to protect my life and liberty can seriously malfunction when OTHERS DON’T!!! It seems like you are saying “don’t look for problems and you won’t find them. How many ways have Glocks been beaten to a pulp on YouTube? 10,000? 20,000? How many times can you force them to fire without pulling the trigger? I don’t even LIKE Glocks but I’ll give them credit, they shoot only when the trigger is pulled. THAT’S THE ONLY WAY A GUN SHOULD WORK!

    So are Sigs the best or NOT! If you’re the best Sig, prove it! Fix this with a full recall, admit it was missed (yeah, we know that you knew already), and THEN we can move on.

    Remember, if you claim to be of the highest standards, you will be held to the highest standards!

    • Bearacuda

      It feels like my fellow SIG owners are holding SIG to a lower standard than their competition. If the Gen 5 Glock fired when dropped at a certain angle you’d better believe there’d be a stink…

      • mosinman

        yeah but then you’d have Glock fanboys saying “its no big deal”

        • john huscio

          Glock isnt run by ron cohen.

        • Risky

          Honestly, I don’t think so. They would probably just go back to calling the previous generation ‘perfect’ and laud the new one as junk.

      • Vosh Sahaal

        Gen IV does from about 8 feet

        • Andrew

          Share the link please. Would like to see.

      • no skin in the game

        and glock already did have issues with 500,000 reworked for this exact problem (it was a LEO baton strike)

        not to mention the 40SW kaboom issue.

        But somehow Sig being made aware and accepting the issue and offering a fix in under a week makes them evil with all manner of Machiavellian claims about what they did or didn’t do

        • HKfan

          Glock bias is everywhere. Look at Remington’s R51 and 700 recall disaster after knowing for years about the issues but kept selling to the public. Ask most ignorant people today, and they will say Remington is just another “good, ole American company.” But evil SIG makes one mistake and it is gun controversy of the year. Ruger 22 can fire when the safety is disenguaged but they are also a “good ole American company.”

          Glock owners forget about the numerous issues/recalls/revisions they have had since 1986: Gen 4 guide rod recall, unsupported chambers, extractor revision due to brass to face, NYPD slamfires, Gen 1-2 magazines splitting, 1992 6-part recall, 21SF magazine release fail, and numerous other problems. Get a Glock 17 from 1986 and a current Gen 4 17 and every since one of the 34 parts has been changed/revised in some way due to safety/reliability.

          I love Glock but the P320 is a better gun in every way and am confident that SIG will responsible rectify its issues, unlike Remington.

          • john huscio

            Love how some guys will standfast on the deck of the SS Cohen as it slowly sinks into the sea of clusterf*ck………..

          • Bearacuda

            Hopefully he won’t be with the much longer after this. XD

      • Anonymoose

        The Glock Gen 5 comes apart on its own.

    • marko987

      You’ll have a real problem defending yourself while you are dropping your weapon to concrete from Five feet in the air. The alleged defect has little relationship to real world situations.

      • Risky

        Tell that to the cop that dropped his, in a HOLSTER, while loading gear in a vehicle, shooting himself in the leg. Also, I doubt it fell from 5 feet in this case. The testing standard Omaha Outdoors used called for 5 feet, but that doesn’t mean it won’t go off at 4.9 feet, or 3 or 2 or 1. We just don’t know.

      • John

        Just saw a vid where they dropped it from 4 feet or chest height and it went off, but you’re right Marko, no one, EVER, has dropped anything, in the heat of battle, or in a robbery/home invasion situation…..EVER!

        So we are safe….thank you.

        Just an FYI, watch YT vids from Active Self Protection. They have REAL WORLD video of shootouts…and BTW it shows that people drop their guns ALL THE TIME.

      • Kivaari

        They also dropped them from waist high. Then the relevant hammer test.

  • EzGoingKev

    After reading this I wish this site had an ignore option you could use to select contributors you do not want to see material from.

    • Bearacuda

      Same.

    • I’m out

      +1

    • Mrninjatoes

      Agree 100%

    • That would be a great addition to TFB. They’ve got one writer whose weekly stuff is like “Obvious and universally understood firearms principle. Who knew?!!!” and an other woman who would just post crap like “9mm or 40, what do YOU think. Comment below” with no information.

  • Joe

    I have to admit, I’m disappointed, but not shocked beyond belief.
    If SIG ceases P320 production and moves forward selling M17 handguns I’d consider it a 2nd Generation fix.
    The GD/S&W MHS submission was reworked due to existing flaws, the original M9 had cracked slides and locking blocks, and do I even have to mention the original-issue McNamara-f**ked M16?
    Everyone loooves the M110, but trigger issues surfaced soon after adoption.
    How about the .40 police handguns’ accelerated wear stories?
    Or the M249’s glaring wear-related reliability issues?
    This is enough of an issue that I will either wait for an M17, or pick up a used P320 and immediately ship it back to SIG for repair/upgrade.

  • Joel

    “If they were to test every angle of every condition, there would be almost 50,000,000 permutations – an impossible number to complete.”

    This assumes that a negative 30 degrees must be explicitly tested and that the pistol will not fire at, for example, negative 31 or 32 or 29 or 28 degrees. Such an assumption seems unsupported by theory or empirical demonstrations.

    Don’t buy the Sig hype. Demand excellence, or even “hell and back reliability.”

    • I’m out

      Yep. How someone came up with the +/- 0.5° requirement to initiate the failure is mystifying. Certainly the crude YouTube drop tests were not holding all axes fixed and rotation of the firearm between 29.5 and 30.5°.

      This underscores the dreadful state of our educational system where physics and math have been replaced by Facebook and feeeeelings.

      SIG acknowledges Four “events”, at least one putting a hole in a CT officer’s leg. That’s not hype, that’s reality. Four known, while Sig was claiming “zero” as late as August 4th. Who knows what else they are withholding. They’ve been “Kimberized” by cheap cheap Ronnie and their credibility is in the gutter. And that’s a shame because they used to make excellent firearms, as did Kimber.

      This article is so ridiculous, one has to wonder if it is a manufactured “good guy / bad guy” clickbait game.

      • Joel

        That’s hilarious. Sig a) acknowledges 4 events and b) says that 50,000,000 permutations must be done to cause 1 event.

        Did NH legalize marijuana?Or did they ship all 500k covered in bacon grease?

  • For me the funny part about this whole story is compare to the Glock ejection issues. An issue that Glock has never formally acknowledged, and even though they do have a fix for it, you have to pay your own money to get it to Glock to get it fixed.

    And yes I am comparing the two because my failure rate was 1-2 stove pipes per a box of practice ammo. And a stove pipe every other box of duty ammo.

    • m-dasher

      a gun firing when its not supposed to is TOTALLY not the same thing as a gun having stove pipe issues

      • Actually I think stove pipes with duty ammo is worse.

        Because we are talking about a gun that has to be dropped, then has to land at this one particular angle, and then the bullet has to strike something important.

        • Brian

          You are so wrong. No one can predict how a gun could be dropped or when. Thusly, no control over the muzzle which will dictate where the projectile goes. Stove-pipes happen after the bullet left the barrel. Your pistol jamming does not remove your ability to control the direction of the bullet.

          • Actually yeah you can. When held in a normal grip polymer guns like Glocks tends to land on the gun’s side. That is how the standards are developed, the FBI dropped a ton of guns and observed how they landed. From that they developed the drop standards.

            Sure in some rare instances it might land outside these common angles, but they are rare. And other guns are the same way, drop your AR-15 (or heck most rifles and shotguns) from a tall enough height and they will go off. Because the only thing preventing it is that the primers are harder. The firing pin is completely floating.

            Personally I think a gun stoppage is a important issue. And I am not wrong because it is a personal opinion. It is not that I am ignoring it, I will be sending my P320 Compact in for the fix. Just that I feel that the Glock ejection issue was more important to me than SIG’s drop safe issue. That is part of the reason why I don’t trust to take a Glock out of the box anymore and just put it in my holster, I want a good number of rounds to ensure it ejects reliably.

        • m-dasher

          2 things….

          1) we train to clear jams and stove pipes…..so if you encounter one in the field, its should be an automatic reaction to clear it.

          2) stove piping is readily apparent when you fire the gun…..so its not a surprise to you….unless you buy a new gun and carry it without test firing it, which is youre own fault if something goes wrong.

          ……no one knows a gun isnt drop safe until someone drops it…….

  • Mark Timney

    This is, by far, the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on TFB. To say that Sig has been a “class act” in how it’s handled this situation is ridiculous. Some of the coverage MAY have been overblown by some in the media, but to call a handgun going off like this a “non-incident” is far beyond ridiculous.

  • neoritter

    Recomment because this seems like a relevant question in terms of an issue.

    Has anyone tested this EXACT drop with those pistols? Going by Patrick’s test, that means hitting a charged/cocked pistol with a hammer. If it has an external hammer, like a 1911, the hammer should probably be hit instead of the back plate. More relevant tests would be with other striker fired pistols.

  • Blumpkin

    “A tester, known to have published a variety of often highly negative opinions”….. But not inaccurate, correct?
    I’m fine with negative opinion so long as the opinion is accurate.
    I feel the opinion in this opinion article is poorly constructed… in my opinion.

  • Mr. Katt

    I can take the same Brownells hammer that Patrick used in his video, whack the hammer of my GP100 all month long and it ain’t goin’ off . . . and I have 6 for sure.

    (Let the flames begin ! LOL)

  • Paul Rain

    I disagree. Do you realize how many videos gun youtubers are going to be able to generate, smashing every autopistol from the past century with rubber mallets?

  • pliablemoose

    Please encourage Patrick R to jump in on Yankee Marshal’s chat tonight.

  • Joe Madds

    I own a P320. I also own several other striker fired pistols from other manufacturers, including Glock. I carried a Glock 30 Gen 4 for awhile (Before switching to a M&P 45c) as one of my main carries. While heading out to my car to pack for a snowboarding trip, I put the Glock in the inside pocket of my winter jacket. While packing my car the jacket pocket ripped just enough to allow the Glock to fall out onto the ground. When the Glock hit the ground it landed on the back of the slide with the muzzle facing me. Needless to say, the Gun did not discharge.

    Up until this story broke I sometimes carried the P320. I will no longer carry it because of my past experience with dropping a gun. I can in no way say for sure the Glock fell at a 30 degree angle, but it was sure as hell close enough. If that Glock 30 was the P320 I may not be here today.

    I will keep the P320 and allow Sig to fix the problem like they have promised. I really like the gun otherwise. I can see why they chose it over the Glock. I own a Glock 19 and like that as well. But I like my Sig P320 better as far as handling the weapon goes. My favorite striker fired polymer are M&P’s. So I can without a doubt say I am no Glock fan boy. Never the less, as of right now, until sig fixes the problem, my G19 is a better over all gun than my Sig P320.

    In my very humble opinion, this story was a big deal to people that put their heard earned money into the P320 to trust their lives with. #JustSomeGuyWithAnA$$Hole

  • Luke

    You opinion is that we shouldn’t hold these industry giants to deliver safe and quality products? So if TFB were to write an article on how it isn’t important to have trigger finger discipline….we should all just accept it?

    Here’s the fact. A police officer dropped the gun and suffered a serious injury. You say its so unlikely that we shouldn’t care…….but it happened. IT HAPPENED.

    Not to mention, DOD tested the MH submission, not the gun we buy as a consumer.

  • Lee M Attinger

    My 1911 fired when I tested it in the microwave to make sure it was safe. Threw that piece of junk away immediately.

    • .45

      I remember someone saying something about microwaving a 1911 in the comments of one of the other articles. Is there a joke or something about 1911s and microwaves I need to know?

      • Lee M Attinger

        that was me earlier. I just reposted it because this was basically the same article as that one. lol

      • Lee M Attinger

        and I wouldn’t say its a joke about 1911’s in microwaves. Have you never accidentally microwaved something made of metal? Probably wouldn’t turn out to well if you added gun powder and primers to the mix either

        • .45

          I think I might have put a spoon in once, but mostly I leave the microwaving of utensils and the occasional cell phone to my absent minded step father. (Yes, he nuked his cell phone once. Baked potato, cell phone, close enough I guess.)

  • JASON B

    Kidding right? Just playing devil’s advocate? I say that because the failure is so easy to reproduce. Everyone and their mother on youtube yesterday was able to reproduce this failure on the first or second drop. There is a high probability that over the course of owning the gun, that it will be dropped in that fashion.

    A cop dropped his holstered P320 accidentally and it went off and shot him. Pretty good chance of cops and other mil/leos getting into a scuffle and banging the back of the gun and setting it off. It really seems pretty easy to set off. A good bang on the back and BOOM!

    Sig did NOT go far enough. This should have been a definitive and total recall!

  • Alex A.

    “If they were to test every angle of every condition, there would be almost 50,000,000 permutations” -Frank K.
    If I may respectfully ask, how did you come up with that number?

    • m-dasher

      out of his ass

    • MIke H

      3 axis (X, Y, and Z), 360 degrees on each axis. 360 x 360 x 360 = 46,656,000 possible angles of impact.

      • Alex A.

        Gotcha, thanks! I was curious how that number was so big.

      • Indianasteve

        The number is infinite. ie; 30.5, 30.6, 30.7654367…. . But still, hit the back of the gun 4 times and it fires. Come on, they knew.

    • Royce Williams

      Or you can save yourself a lot time and effort by just hitting the.P320 on the rear of the slide with a 1″ nylon hammer from Brownells 3 times to arrive at the same conclusion. Still curious how many Glock haters have scrounged up one of Gaston’s designs after this corporate product safety debacle unfolded last week and have been frantically dropping and pounding the $#it out of some old Glock desperately trying to replicate P320 failures in the pistol they so loath.

  • Madison J Coleman

    First common sense article on the P320 issue. And it’s about time. It’s like CNN up in here with all the Glock snowflakes still protesting.

  • Mrninjatoes

    You joking right?! If the P320 passed all the “various DoD, NIJ, ANSI, Cal DoJ, and various other drop-safety standards”…then those tests are worthless. About as worthless as this article.

    “Voluntary upgrade”? Give me a break! Sig needs to do a recall.

    • john huscio

      Apparently didnt pass the FBI’s drop test……..

  • Meathead

    I heard the Russians hacked the final designs of the pistol before it went into production………..nah ….not really

  • Dude

    Thank you Frank for this counterpoint to all of the nervous nellies out there. I own a p320 and last night I was explaining this whole situation to my wife who is not a gun person. As soon as I mentioned the phrase “drop safe” she said “I would never trust a gun not to go off if I dropped it”. I think that part of the problem here is that folks think it’s ok to drop a gun. I’ve never dropped a gun. I’ve never dropped an egg in the kitchen. If your mindset is “if I drop it it might go off” you handle it a little differently than if you would if it’s “drop safe”. And FWIW I’ve never dropped my glock either

    • flight27

      Okay, so you never dropped your gun or broke an egg. What about the slob next to you at the range or at Home Depot that does drop their gun? That’s why I quit riding motorcycles – I was confident in my skills but realized I was surrounded by complete idiots in cars.

      • Dude

        Point taken

    • Mrninjatoes

      I think your wife is smarter than you.

      • Dude

        My wife is smarter than me because she feels the same way that I do? I think what you meant is that my wife is smarter than you

    • john huscio

      You arent familiar with murphys law are you?

  • Grey Beard

    “By any objective measure of “reasonableness” . Come on Frank. Do you really expect that from the internet?

    On a serious note, would anybody have any information on anything that was remotely scientific in any of the testing that produced these NDs? I would be curious, only since I have not seen any or any links, if anybody has measured the force exerted on the guns when they hit the floor or any high speed cameras used to clearly define how much trigger movement occurred, if any, during any of these backyard tests.

  • flight27

    Seems ironic that the picture associated with this post shows two storm troopers who succumbed to the Jedi mind-trick to think that something really important was really a “non-incident” as the writer put it.

    • Mrninjatoes

      Exactly!

  • No this is a big deal. The company knew about a problem which they had caused through the omission of standard safety features, hid it, then lied about it until they couldn’t anymore.

    If SIG is the kind of company who will tell one of the largest police departments in the country that the problem they are seeing aren’t real when the company damn well knows they are, then that speaks to deep corporate issues to me.

    Get your act together, SIG.

  • SPQR9

    I think it should be fixed but that the P320 is a fine gun.

    • Dude

      Smartest thing I’ve read here yet

  • Badwolf

    OMG! It’s SO not a big deal that I (and many others) just HAVE TO write an article on how NOT a big deal it is.

  • Badwolf
  • Gun Fu Guru

    Thank you! Voice of reason in these times.

  • Sid Collins

    I fully realize that this post starts with the word “Opinion”…. but are you freaking serious? The issue is real.

  • When a pistol has a full magazine slabbed in, particularly a “high capacity” magazine, there is an awful lot of weight on the rear. I would not call that type of circumstances “unlikely”.

  • 🦑 🐙

    Considering the striker firing pin sits in the back of the gun, hamming the back of the gun to see if you can make it hit the primer is the most logical and obvious of tests. It’s not something that would take fifty million tries to find. I don’t understand why anyone would defend Sig over this. I’m sure they’ll do a recall but the damage to their reputation was clearly at their own making for rushing this gun to market without proper testing. Every other striker fired pistol on the market pretty much has a safe trigger action, most notably Glock (30 year old technology). But I think James is right, I don’t think it’s the trigger, rather it is more likely a bad striker block design. I’d like to strap a zip tie to hold the trigger forward and then hammer the back of the gun to see if the striker can still hit the primer.

  • Rem870
  • MIke H

    1) For those of us who aren’t LEO’s I really don’t think it’s as big a deal as it’s being made out to be. Four years on the market, and it’s just now a thing? The odds of me being in a situation where it’s going to be struck repeatedly hard enough to cause it to fire while in a holster are slim. Not saying it isn’t an issue… I mean, there is a little more motivation for me to take advantage of the “free upgrade” now than if this issue hadn’t arisen before, I just think it’s being a bit overblown. If you are an LEO, though, it is very much a big deal. Sig should not deny that fact. Speaking of the free upgrade…

    2) Whomever is in charge of PR for Sig needs to be fired. Like, now. “Free upgrade”? It may very well have been considered an optional upgrade when they originally started planning on offering it before this whole crap show… but calling it a “free upgrade” when it’s a fix for this issue at this exact moment the issue comes to the forefront just screams of weaselly used car salesman. How hard would it have been to just say this…

    “Hey, we were planning on this being an upgrade all along before this whole crap show started in order to bring the fire control unit in line with the Military’s M17/18. We feel the P320 is drop safe, as it’s passed numerous agency and military drop safety tests… but since we take our customers’ concerns about the safety of our products seriously, and this upgrade will coincidentally also fix the issue of the potential -30degree drop fire, we’re going to speed up the timetable of the upgrade’s release and offer it to all of our customers for free.” ?

  • Did he just throw a rock at Tuohy? The single least hype based, factual, honest guy in gun culture?

    The guy who says little and lets the results show for themselves?

    Seriously, he did publish a few negative things. However you missed the extremely crucial fact that they were TRUE negative things.

  • Indianasteve

    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Sig knew about the problem. That’s why they upgraded the trigger in the m17. They knew it would be discovered in phase 2 testing. However, phase 2 never happened. The questions I have are; 1) would Sig have made the change in the m17 if they knew phase 2 testing would not happen. 2) was the whole government contract rigged and phase 2 was cancelled because they found out the new trigger didn’t fix the problem. The tests need to be performed and extra attention needs to be given to this drop problem.

    Thank you Patrick !

  • Nathan Means

    Oh so a Taurus has the drop fire feature and yall bash them and disown the manufacturer. But a sig does it and you say its ok?

  • Mike Crumling

    We get it, you like sig and are upset that they’re getting bad press. If “above and beyond testing” doesn’t include hit the back with a hammer, then it’s not “above and beyond testing.”

  • FarmerB

    Seems like the deiselgate defense. It’s ok in the tests, so it’s ok on the road.

    You forget that the tests are supposed to formalize and standardize a method for determining a feature functions as required. The tests are a tool, not the goal.

    The damned thing shouldn’t fire when dropped. That’s the goal. Passing the tests is a necessary, but MINIMAL step towards that goal. Reminding us that it passed “the tests” is basically irrelevant.

  • Juice

    Starting your opinion piece off with a strawman? Class act.

    Pretty bizarre to see an article that’s so far up its own ass from a new writer on TFB.

  • Iblis

    Since you are a Sig “fan boy”, of course you think that we all should “move along, nothing to see here”. A officer dropped the gun, WHILE IN A HOLSTER and that officer was injured, multiple surgeries and so on. No, we should not just move along. Sig has messed up, but is rather arrogant about it. They seem to be bothered to have to to fix this issue. So screw Sig, won’t be buying one. If I drop one, I don’t want anyone or myself to get hurt or worse.

  • maynardb

    The article is a logical failure as much as the 320 has a physical failure. Products are tested all day every day, but they still fail because a population of a million will find a gap that building full of QA monkeys couldn’t imagine. Think about the Apollo

  • TheScrutineer

    Okay… Now tell this to the Cop with a hole in his knee.

  • Troy Adams

    If you had any credibility…this post eliminated it.

  • PAltares

    I think this type of drop test needs to be added to the tests that are already standard procedure. A drop onto the beavertail of a pistol at a force that could potentially discharge the weapon is possibly mitigated by the slide moving out of battery. I also don’t think it is that far of a stretch to think that a dropped pistol could fall in the manner described, seeing as the slide and fire controls are the heaviest part of any polymer framed pistol. I do agree that people are going kind of nuts over this, but then again if I owned one I would certainly want to know what’s being done about it. Also, considering the popularity of Sig, and the general short term memory, or plain old apathy, of many in the firearms community, I doubt many will remember this in a year or so.

  • Troy Lund

    Murphy’s law. Fix it or surrender the military contract. Our troops deserve perfection. Hand out hundreds of thousands of these and Murphy will kill someone.