Is The P320 Unsafe? | A New Failure And We Cover What Has Happened So Far

The question that seems to be popping up reasonably often right now seems to be”Is the P320 unsafe?” Well, we can’t really answer that with certainty, but we can tell you everything that has come to light as of the morning of August 9th, 2017.

We also are going to take a closer look at how the pistol fails as a result of a sharp blow to the rear of the slide. For those of you that say “well just don’t hit it with a hammer” think through the implications of a pistol that will fire with a sharp blow. Would you want to get into a physical altercation while wearing one as a duty weapon? How about a car accident where the pistol comes free of your holster and impacts something? These are real world concerns that shouldn’t be something we worry about.

DPD removed P320 from approved list 

Sig issues statement that P320 is safe on 8/4/17

Omaha Outdoors drop test

Other drop test resurfaces

Sig sued by Police Officer shot by falling P320

Sig offers voluntary upgrade

P320 fails when struck with hammer

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Transcript ….

[coming soon]



Patrick R

Patrick is a Senior Writer for The Firearm Blog and TFBTV Host. He is a verified gun nerd. With a lifelong passion for shooting, he has a love for all types of firearms, especially overly modified plastic handguns, precision rifles, and AR based things. You can follow Patrick on Instagram @tfbpatrick, Facebook, or contact him by email at TFBpatrick@gmail.com.

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


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  • Earlier today I attempted to replicate your hammer test. I spent 15 minutes whacking the heck out of a stock P320 Compact with a Craftsman version of that hammer. And the primed brass (Federal Brass 9mm with a CCI SPP) didn’t go off nor were their marks on it.

    If I were to guess, when your striker assembly was assembled (either at the factory or when someone took it out) that the spring that controls the striker block wasn’t inserted correctly.

    • Angus Alba

      and there in lies exactly the issue of being doing these test and not understanding QA as it’s all about a sample size of 1 and n=1 tells you nothing – its a single data point not a trend.

      you couldn’t but OO and Patrick can but OO admitted they had already torture tested theirs and as you point out rightly, we don’t know the provenance of Patrick’s or what state it also might be in.

      if you look at the test data Sig published, even at the right angle on a repeatable rig and a number of handguns, the actual rate of ND was very small.

      But it’s more fun for Patrick to try an imply a conspiracy or fraud or who knows what

      • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

        The angle that Sig is dropping the fixed guns at does not match up with the angle that we are able to reliably replicate failures.

        • Kivaari

          The hammer strike is more indicative of a problem then the drops. These are unsafe pistols.

          • Kinetics

            No, because unless the trigger is secured or there is slow motion footage to prove that the trigger didn’t move, the failure may very well be due to the trigger moving.

            In the absence of another test that addresses those issues it can’t be said that there is anything going on beyond what Sig has admitted, that the weight of the trigger and related components can induce a failure when dropped at a specific angle.

          • RogUinta

            Cannot upvote this enough. This is simple physics. Newton’s First Law for crying out loud!

          • Kurt Ingalls

            ….your picking fly sh#t out of the pepper….it is UNSAFE…..period…………… 🙂

          • RogUinta

            No it is not…unless you failed physics in high school.

          • Kivaari

            I gt the physics. My point is the gun is more likely to get bumped, hit, struck, banged into things than it is to get dropped. I come at it from a police perspective knowing how rough a holstered gun gets treated in day to day operations. I think it getting whacked is a higher likelihood than getting dropped. Although I’ve seen quite a few dropped guns.

          • RogUinta

            My point is that this is most likely the same failure mode. I SAW the damned trigger move in his latest video. Go to time index 03:14 and watch closely. The trigger doesn’t go fully back but it does move relative to the frame.

            We wouldn’t be having this argument if he wasn’t filming with his damned iPhone.

          • Kivaari

            I expected the trigger to move. It is just physics.
            I know I will never buy a P320. I looked at them and other striker fired guns where the striker is held fully to the rear. I just don’t like that.
            I do have faith in the safety of the Glock. I used them for nearly 30 years and have tens of thousands of rounds through them. I used them on and off duty for a long time. I never saw one fire without the trigger being pressed. I’ve seen one kaboom that was a double charge. That gun kept working, even with a cracked frame.

        • Angus Alba

          “we”? Seriously it’s “we” now?

          So just now who is that “we” that you are the mouth piece for? what QA and/or engineering qualifications do the “we” have and care to show video of the “we” replicating tests in a method that’s
          not a complete joke, on a population of devices that are verified as
          being valid samples to test with?

          you do realize that change in language more than just implies an organized group who is intent on what comes across as prejudicial to actually helping Sig sort this out and instead looks like nefarious intent.

          You have made this entirely about politics at this point – this is no longer journalism, you have an axe to grind with Sig for some reason.

          • RogUinta

            “We” is him and his dog.

          • Nicks87

            Patrick’s tests are good enough for me, I dont think he has an agenda but go ahead acting tough on the internet.

          • Kurt Ingalls

            AMEN!!!!!! 🙂

          • Edeco

            He’s referring to himself and the turd in his pocket.

          • Klaus Von Schmitto

            I’d expect that the “we” he is referring to is the “they” who conducted the test.
            It’s not all about you Jessica, or even “us”.

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            Nope. No axe to grind. I use “we” when referring to things TFB or TFBTV has done even if it was “I” that performed the tests.

            You are reaching hard for something that just isn’t there.

      • Kim Jong kaboom

        TTAG bought a brand new P320, dropped it and it went BANG. On video.

        Others have dropped P320’s and they have gone BANG. On video.

        That’s a defect. Not a one-off isolated incident.

        Nobody comes up with a firearm patch ready for rollout overnight either. Any fix requires considerable testing before being released. SIG knew this was coming.

        • Kivaari

          Angus has had his bull gored.

          • Angus Alba

            not even close

        • Angus Alba

          or the fact that Sig knows the design better than you, have the full CAD and the FEA models, have various parts in house (since there is a number of variants since day one of this design) and in the process of doing 2200 drops in a VERY short time since the story broke to prove the issue of a non-standard drop found a combination that fixes it.

          What I object to is the flat out conspiracy theories being pushed around here with ZERO evidence and then you with your clear agenda against the M17 program posting this all over TFB multiple times with some unsupportable leaps of logic.

          Its the same with your claiming they were lying when to everyone’s knowledge, other than the “manufactured” failures (and by that I mean deliberately dropped multiple times until the one non-standard drop config was found), the only incident was the ONE – the cop in CT – and we know NO details of that incident.

          Did he really drop it the way said he did, did he really happen to supposedly whilst in a retention holster, attached to a belt somehow “magically” find the right angle? a) that last scenario is so ridiculously unlikely but and that’s a huge but if he did b) Sig or any other company would be excused for not be able to replicate this using a STANDARD which is the only way to test reliably.

          No one has shown a video that matches what was supposedly the CT cop’s configuration.

          No – to you and other like Patrick, that reasoned Engineering QA approach must be some grand conspiracy

          and NO I don’t own a 320

          • Kivaari

            The muzzle up drop test is SAAMI spec.

      • Kurt Ingalls

        you hit the nail right on the head….that’s the scary part about the QA….or is it a design flaw????….no one at this point knows…..I’m an aircraft mechanic and in my field if this similar situation about, oh, say landing gear extension inconsistency came about, they would GROUND THE AIRCRAFT!!!!!!!!!

    • ARCNA442

      Thank you for contributing useful information. So few people are.

      From the few informal tests I’ve seen on the internet so far, fully stock guns have a ~20% chance of going off if dropped at the 30º angle so while the problem is there, it is not quite as sensational as people have be claiming.

    • Flounder

      There is a possibility that sig knew there could be drop issues and changed the internal parts thinking they solved it.

      I doubt this actually applies to all sig P320’s. My guess is they were trying to improve the trigger slightly and accidentally made it not drop safe.

      I bet it is limited to guns that have a specific combination of variances in tolerances that leads to the AD’s when dropped. There may be a general recall, or they may just recall certain serial number ranges.

    • Klaus Von Schmitto

      You have to use a Brownells gun hammer or it won’t work. 19.95 + S&H.
      Craftsman hammers are for lawnmowers. Brownells is for guns.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bde8bd56963ceaf07433ec20c49cf0d65f49aa0eb0327ce7b3b6b5e58328959b.jpg

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        Darnit you beat me to it

  • Angus Alba

    Seriously Patrick?

    “I am not a pistol engineer….” but that doesn’t stop you from trying to give “opinions” like one and trying to ride this story for every click its worth.

    you are flat out accusing Sig of being nefariously even after their presentation but that doesn’t fit your agenda of milking this

    let us guess – you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night…..

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      Hampton Inn.
      They got that continental breakfast with the Texas shaped waffles.

      • datimes

        I love those waffles!

    • john huscio

      As long as ron cohen is in charge, i will never trust sig products

      • Nicks87

        They are not what they once were. New Sigs are massed produced and cheap. They work just fine but they wear quickly and require more maintenance than a Beretta or Glock.

      • Klaus Von Schmitto

        Why? What did Ron Cohen do to piss you off?

        • john huscio

          Well other than almost singlehandedly destroying two premiere firearms manufacturers, nothing.

    • Seamus Bradley

      DONE BE A HATER JUST BECAUSE YOUR EGO IS WRAPPED UP IN A GUN PURCHASE.

  • john huscio
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  • Brick

    Patrick,

    I’m kind of assuming that you aren’t going to do any further testing. But if you are, maybe try using zip ties or safety wire to secure the trigger in the forward position. If you’re looking to discount the trigger weight/momentum claim that might be a way to do it.

    • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

      I may. I haven’t decided. I have a few phone calls to make before I can decide if it’s worth it at all.

      • Jay Dun

        I posted two comments on why it happen the way it happened. One to you and the other another poster. Both post needed to be cleared by the staff. Probably I included a link to another post with a lot of video explaining it.

        In a nutshell this happen in all full tension striker fire pistols. A working fire block safety will prevent it from going off. In the case of the P320 fire block is not working as intended.

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        I would be interested to see if it happens with an X5 as well. Especially trying combinations of X5 and standard slides and frames.

        • Omaha says no it won’t happen with the X5.

          • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

            Didnt they just drop test it? Im wondering if it would go of after being hammered. The hammer test makes it look like more than a trigger issue making the lighter trigger of the X5 moot. Are there any other differences with the X5 like slide internals? Im wondering if its just the beavertail on the X5 that changes the way it impacts the ground.

      • pliablemoose

        Hey, jump on Yankee Marshal’s live chat tonight, I always watch, it’d be cool as heck.

        • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

          Sleep won. Sorry.

  • TheNotoriousIUD

    Glocks Revenge.

  • Noishkel

    God, AGAIN with the FREAKING hammer.

    You know what, just screw TFB. You always were the least enjoyable of my daily checks. Thanks for giving me incentive to just delete the bookmark.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      You sound cranky.
      Miss your nap today?

      • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

        He mad.

        • TheNotoriousIUD

          Well, look your test was not super scientific or anything but at the very least I think we can all agree it aint supposed to do that.

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            That was the whole point of showing the failure.

        • Klaus Von Schmitto

          Like crazy mad or just pissed off mad?

    • Klaus Von Schmitto

      What wrong with Hammers?

  • Kim Jong kaboom

    If it wasn’t unsafe, Sig would not be doing a damage control “voluntary upgrade”

    You can be pretty sure they’ve replicated failures in house before publicly admitting there’s enough of a problem to offer free fixes. Especially after they got sued by the injured CT officer.

    The fact that even crude homebrew drop tests on Youtube can replicate the problem indicates it’s more than a “one in a million” occurrence. They tested it, found the failure, ran the numbers and figured the probable number of lawsuits far outweighed the cost of the “voluntary upgrade” and short term brand damage (because management thinks short term).

    This will turn into a full recall, with attendant costs. Will Cohen bail before then? Who knows. He did after working his magic on Kimber.

    Hopefully the GAO wakes up and requires longer term testing and improved regimens on dropping for the M17 before proceeding. Can’t afford to have troops fielding weapons that develop problems a couple years down the road. Army brass will never admit errors on a selection. Ideally the entire field (not just Glock) should enter a brief, but rigorous accelerated life test followed by all angle dropping.

    Good luck to owners getting P320’s fixes or refunds. Unsafe firearms are bad news for everyone.

    • Angus Alba

      beyond basically just cut and pasting this section a bunch of times all over TFB, have you bothered to actually read what Sig posted on this? actually look at the results they posted?

      this reads like the Glock equivalent of russian fake news for trump

      • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

        Yes, I have. I am not convinced that they tested it at an angle that reliably produces a failure.

        • Angus Alba

          is that more of the “I am not a pistol engineer” expertise…….?

        • Kinetics

          2,200 drops and you think they didn’t find everything they could?

          Or what? They made up the drops? I mean really?

          • Kim Jong kaboom

            Testing at the SAAMI angles? Sure, I could see it passing 10,000 drops. But somehow it DID go off, so people started testing other angles. *surprise* a weakness appeared. So what did Sig do? Nothing or some secret fix project after the January5th CT lawsuit. Only the recent interweb fracas pushed it out in the open and forced Sig to publicly address it. P320 owners should be happy the defect was found before it bit them, and they will be getting (hopefully) a fix or compensation.

            People are ripping SIG because they played deny deny deny, then *oh wait we have an instant fix*

            Something less than confidence inspiring for a supplier to our troops.

            (and SAAMI now needs to revise their spec. Again)

          • Yarp

            Yes. The whole program is thrown into doubt and skepticism. They skipped the whole 2nd half of the “trials.” Question everything.

          • Kivaari

            How do half a dozen people grab a few P320s and proceed to make them go bang after a few drops or a light hammer strike? Are they just unlucky to have found the one in a million defective guns.

          • Patrick R. – Senior Writer

            The photos I have seen of the drop test apparatus and the drops show the wrong angle.

            If consumers are able to induce a failure with alarming regularity, I call the drop tests into question when they had only a handful of failures.

      • Kim Jong kaboom

        What’s fake news is SIG claiming “Zero incidents” when there were documented cases on the books of incidents.

        It’s not the defect SIG is getting hammered for, it’s the denial.

        Glocks have their own issues. Pointing at Glock is a weak attempt at deflection, expecting to somehow absolve SIG of problems created by SIG.

    • marine6680

      They already stated that the M17 is not affected by this issue.

      • Kim Jong kaboom

        The same company that stated in their news release, “There have been zero reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date,” ignoring the CT shot by his dropped P320?

        • marine6680

          Technically… Not the civilian market. That would be the LE market.

          Not giving them a free pass or excuse, but technically they didn’t lie… They were probably very cognisant of this little fact.

  • Brian Kim

    I like to see similar test done with other pistols. I want to know if this is unique to P320 or universal.

  • trjnsd

    Aside from the money I won’t be spending, I’ll stick with my Sig P226 and Smith 6906. Both have served me well for over 25 tough years of daily carry and are still reliable and accurate. I just don’t need another 9MM right now. Yes, both have been dropped, more than I care to admit; neither has ever malfunctioned or fired.

  • Major Tom

    If I’m in a car crash violent enough to rip a P320 out of a quality holster and slam it hard enough to set it off like that…

    Well chances are I have bigger problems such as being crumpled to death or ejected in a rollover.

    • Klaus Von Schmitto

      Maybe so. But, would you want to be shot after all that other crap happened to you?

  • QuietM4

    Neat. Now lets see the video where you replicate this exact “test” with any Glock, XD, XDM, XDS, M&P, Shield, VP9, FNS, SR9, PPQ, and any other striker fired gun you can think of.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    Pretty sure we needed another article on this! Who knew there was an issue with P320 triggers!!!???

    • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

      You comment illustrates exactly why we did need another article on this. You still think its only about the trigger.

  • feetpiece _

    Just so we’re on the same page, any settlement will be funded by the M17 contract.

    We should be congratulating Sig U.S.A. for pulling a Kansas City Shuffle on the US Taxpayer.

    • Kim Jong kaboom

      The M17 needs reopened. Aside from testing at all angles before and after accelerated life testing for the P320 defect, the number of stovepipes reported also needs addressed. I don’t trust Sig’s claims of “no problemo” when as late as 5 days ago (Aug 4th) they’re making press releases stating “zero drop related failures”. There’s a cop in Connecticut with a hole in his leg from a dropped P320 that Sig has known about since January 5th. I understand defects are sometimes found in the field. Fine. Own it and fix it. I don’t accept companies blatantly lying.

      Verbatim statement:

      “In response to social media rumors questioning the safety of the P320 pistol, a variant of which was selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), SIG SAUER, Inc. has full confidence in the reliability, durability, and safety of its striker-fired handgun platform. There have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date.”

      *poof* All trust gone.

      Everything they say now needs independently verified.

      • Angus Alba

        the ONLY one is the cop who dropped his – and we don’t know the circumstances or the details – it is not beyond a reasonable chance that the cop is BS’s for doing something stupid. Sig had been filed with a lawsuit before this statement was made so you are making a HUGE leap in logic unless you were there when the cop dropped his weapon.

        all the other incidents have been manufactured by people deliberately dropping them until they found the one angle – that is NOT the same.

        Using that ONE case in the manner you are and with the multiple posts on multiple threads shows you have an agenda.

  • Brian

    The amount of firearms companies doing recalls over the last 10 years is kind of high. It makes me question how thorough these companies actually test their weapons.

    • ARCNA442

      I have a feeling that firearms testing is woefully insufficient across the board. Even military and law enforcement testing is often laughably insufficient or blatantly political.

      My biggest problem with this whole incident is that every is focusing on bashing Sig and completely ignoring the deeper story of an industry the consistently allows events like this to occur.

    • Bill

      Well, they are guns; purpose built to be dangerous, so any failure has the potential to be spectacular. But look across industries, and the recall rate for toaster ovens and cars and baby carriages.

      • Brian

        When many of these gun companies market an exhausting amount that their products will: go to hell and back, defend your family, designed by seals, rigorous testing, advanced by design, used by the elites, etc. Recalls are a direct contradiction to this marketing campaign. Companies can recall all the toasters they want, I don’t carry a toaster to defend myself. I carry Glock perfection. 🙂

        • Bill

          Gen 1 Glocks were recalled, even when they were “perfect.” Two of mine had to go back. Even then I dont think it’s a huge deal – engineers cannot possibly foresee all possible outcomes, so it’s natural that as a product sees more use that there is more opportunity for previously unforeseen problems to become apparent, or statistically insignificant problems to expand into significance.

  • USMC03Vet

    haha TFB is gonna beat this horse until it’s dust.

    Some future headline suggestions. Did SIG betray America? SIG: did it kick your dog? SIG reveals shocking agenda that puts gun owners in danger. SIG has a secret and it could be deadly.

    • TheNotoriousIUD
    • Xerxes036

      Bwhahahaha

    • Kurt Ingalls

      Hey, Jackass…….this is pretty damn serious….and Sig probably found this out before we did!!!!!!! ….here’s a piece of advice for any one AND the government…”if it ‘aint broke, don’t fix it”…..a dozen pieces of fine armoury were out there for the taking…..

      • Kurt Ingalls

        ….and someone re-invented the f#ckin’ wheel…..we are doomed…. 🙂

      • Kurt Ingalls

        ….and I say this emphatically because Sig has already claimed to have solved this problem with the MH-17…….really????….no sh#t!!!!!!!?????????????????

      • Dan

        It is pretty serious. Not sure repeated posts all pretty much saying the same thing serious.

        Hope the next piece of award winning journalism by Patrick somehow ties the Russians into this. I mean how could they not be involved. Purposely engineered a handgun to kill Americans. Makes perfect sense. C’mon Patrick you know you have the article published already.

    • Kurt Ingalls

      ….by the way, former 0311…..thank you and Semper Fi…. 🙂

    • I hope we are about done with this.

      • Dan

        I’m betting you’re not.

      • Bill

        If not, please do a series on quality assurance processes, Six Sigma, sample size, probability, Takata airbags, the number of permutations that the angles involved in drop testing could evolve into, unintended acceleration caused by floor mat placement, hypothesis testing, mean failure rates and How to Beat Stuff Into Failure With a Hammer.

      • Angus Alba

        somehow I don’t believe Patrick agrees with that – he has an axe to grind and all manner of theories around Sig he keeps repeating even after Sig’s test data and the exchange was announced

      • no skin in the game

        Clearly you are NOT done with this since you just posted the 5 day old story to your facebook page.

        so much for any integrity left at TFB

  • Gregory

    I love the term upgrade. Sig took a page from the Glock public relations book. It is not an upgrade, it is a repair of a weapon that has a design DEFECT.

    • Kim Jong kaboom

      Yep. There’s no positive safety. Wait until those springs fatigue over years of use and abuse. Aside from field testing, the DoD should invite a couple of P.E.’s to do a proper design review. The whole system appears to rely on spring ratings and tolerances as the “safety” mechanism. They tried to shortcut and eliminated necessary stuff.

      (Every submission should receive the same scrutiny)

  • Thomas Bennett

    Hey Patrick – Can you do one more test? jam something behind the trigger in the trigger guard to prevent ANY rearward movement of the trigger, and do the hammer test again.

  • Nicks87

    A lot of Sig fanboy butt-hurt going on.

    • feetpiece _

      Which is odd for a three year old pistol. If the M9 had been a P226 we wouldn’t be having this discussion in the first place.

      • ARCNA442

        The P226 & the M9 are virtually identical and if the 226 was adopted we would still be moving to a striker gun today (the SEAL’s chose the 226 and now use the Glock 19).

        • feetpiece _

          The SEAL’s use it…. So you’ve carried all three on deployments? Is that where you base this evolutionary requirement? Thanks for the reply bro.

  • Maetenloch

    Patrick, you state that the trigger didn’t move at all but even in the slow motion video it’s not clear that it didn’t. It’s possible that it bounced back a short bit and then reset. To be sure you should do another test with the trigger held forward with zip ties or completely immobilized.

    This matters because the 320 has a striker block that is only moved out of the way when the trigger is pulled back a certain distance. So in theory without this forward movement the striker could not hit the primer even if it gets knocked off the sear. At worst the gun would get decocked – which has happened in some of the recent drop tests. So far the only failure mode that has been shown is the gun firing due to the inertia of the trigger shoe causing it to continue forward far enough to release the striker block safety once the slide and frame have come to a stop AND for the striker to be jarred loose from the sear at the same time. In this case the fix might be as simple as reducing the mass of the trigger shoe so that the inertia from a reasonable fall distance isn’t enough to move it far enough to disable the striker block.

    But if you can prove that the trigger did not move at all, then we have a separate failure mode. A more serious one that would show that the striker block safety is ineffective and would likely require a more extensive fix.

    The fact that Sig’s voluntary upgrade involves the trigger shoe and sear along with some other work may suggest that there is in fact a separate failure mode. Or it may simply be their way of preventing decocking and adding some additional tolerance margin to parts. It’s not clear at this point and the only way to be sure is to do more precise independent testing.

    Full disclosure: I own a P320 and haven’t any issues at all with it – it’s one of the best shooting pistols I own.

  • Joel

    Fires when dropped >>> trigger must be pulled for field strip.

  • Nicks87
  • Sausage

    The TFB Glock Fan Boy Club finally has something to hang their hat on. No we wouldn’t want to report about the common event of “Glocking” one’s self would we.

    • Nicks87

      Because its been repeated over and over. The myth is mostly based on ass hats trying to play quick draw or not knowing how to holster a weapon properly. Drop safety is a real thing that makes a big difference to people who carry and are around guns frequently.

      • Sausage

        Nick, been carrying firearms most of my life and long before you stopped crapping yellow. Don’t need a millennial lecture.

        • Nicks87

          Apparently you do. Glock-leg, Glocking yourself, whatever, it would’ve happened with whatever pistol that irresponsible person was carrying at the time. Guns dont shoot people, people shoot themselves. Blame the person not the equipment.

          • Kivaari

            This is an equipment failure.

          • AZgunner

            Ya, this is. Shooting yourself in the leg while drawing is user error.

          • Dan K

            Unless those guns had a safety. Then a large number of people that got a glock leg wouldn’t have.

            Accidents happen.

  • Gary Kirk
    • int19h

      For as long as there are still some people insisting that there’s no horse, or that all horses are dead, I guess.

      • Klaus Von Schmitto

        Maybe this horse is in a box and no one knows the state of the horse?

        • Samuel Millwright

          Schrodingers horse…

          Doesn’t quite have the same ring to it

  • ironked

    You have your bullets backwards.

  • hacedeca

    I wonder, what happens to all the small business owners, the local gun shops, which bought the P320 for (I make this up:) 500 from SIG in the hope to sell them for 850 Dollars? Perhaps only 200 of the “German-Engineering-Wonders”, what would equal 100.000 Dollar in danger… and then only a lousy upgrade… there is for sure some crazy shaking going on… tremor…

  • Bearacuda

    Hopefully Sig will release more testing videos so we can see if they truly did drop test it at the angle Pat describes. And the upgrade better be free… *oils pitchfork*

  • JSmath

    After years of toolbags preaching the moronic bravado that all guns should be carried with the lightest trigger available, round chambered, and without a manual safety or dingus, hopefully a few dumbasses get weeded out before all affected 320’s are recalled.

    It’s simple physics. You don’t need to have taken a physics class EVER to figure it out. If the only thing required to disengage a striker block is slight movement of an insanely light trigger shoe, sharp blows to the rear of the pistol will do exactly that. Patrick’s just bandwagoning like the little Irish b*tch he is, so we should expect *at least* six more articles on the 320’s trigger.

  • Kurt Ingalls

    LOL, Glock fanboy, huh??!!!……ROFLMAO 🙂

  • Mr. Katt

    SIG-SAUER – where absolute safety comes, well, after marketing and questionable government contracts . . .

  • PhilipVanCleave

    Put something behind the trigger so that there’s no way it can move backwards. Then retry your hammer hit on the P320. That would put the question of the trigger being the culpret to rest one way or the other.

  • .45

    *angry Russian accent while slapping on table*

    “Is gun! Is not supposed to be safe!”

  • John

    Ok, If Patrick said the Earth was round I would have to say it’s flat, you know, just to go with the crowd (I am kidding of course) but with a heavy heart I must agree that Sig really dropped the ball (or gun) on this one. They must have known the issue in advance which shows some serious disregard for customer safety.

    The words “Just don’t drop the gun” ring so hollow you could fill them with helium and float to the moon. Wake up Sig, you can’t get away with crap like this in today’s world, we are ALL connected.

    • Bearacuda

      The amount of denial in the Sig groups is unbelievable–you’d think they were God’s gift to humanity based on their claims…

      • John

        My opinions can change based on new information….unlike most Earthlings.

  • Mike Lashewitz

    Unsafe, NO as long as you do not drop it the wrong way or hit it with a hammer. Soooo

  • Gary Kirk

    Surprised no one’s said it yet.. The hammer test isn’t a failure.. They’ve invented the first “hammer fired” striker gun..

  • Kim Jong kaboom

    Poking around the net tonight, came across this on TTAG:

    “SIG invited TTAG and other members of the firearms media to watch the tests, using three P320 pistols equipped with the enhanced trigger. All three pistols were dropped multiple times on the back of the slide, striking a concrete pad. None fired. All remained in working order, demonstrated by an intentional trigger pull after each drop”

    Seems reasonable. Um wait, i seem to recall one of the home-brew videos required three consecutive drops before the P320 went bang. Could there be something inside creeping a little bit with each drop? A little more each time? Wouldn’t pulling the trigger after each test reset this? Yes, I know that nobody is going to drop a pistol three times in a row. Unless they drop it down a long flight of stairs or something. Just a little test to file away for when the modified 320’s come back.

    Also since frame and slide milling is involved, the whole gun has to go back. Hoping SIG is picking up postage both ways. Tracking all the parts to keep them with their original gun should be a treat. The logistics of this while simultaneously producing new product should be something to watch, as mixing old and new parts is a big no-no. I’d think every repaired P320 will require test firing (and test dropping?). They’ll have to staff up to avoid long wait times. No idea what the local labor pool is like.

    • Angus Alba

      1) the one the web drops are being done by hand so predictability is highly suspect that they will hit the same spot with the same force – there is a reason drop test rigs are used along with high speed cameras to show what actually happened and with some level of repeatability.

      2) three drops? seriously how many drops in row do you want? is it 6, 10? Welcome to QA where you can always design a test to cause a system to fail but more than one drop is lunacy.

      lastly now you are traveling into Sig conspiracy land with wanting to no believe Sig’s repair before its even out – that’s what Patrick has been doing pushing his M17 has this opinion

  • Turd Sterling

    Sig lied again

  • Bearacuda

    “I don’t plan on dropping the gun so I’m not going to upgrade.”

    “I don’t plan on getting in a car accident so I’m not going to get car insurance.”

    If someone told you that he was ok with driving a Ford Pinto because he “didn’t intend on getting in a car accident,” would you be ok riding shotgun?

  • Al

    Even a Glock? I know, those finger grooves. Or is it the slightly curved up front end of the frame. Must be the plastic sights. Totally unusable. Only in extreme situations when the new and improved variations are unavailable. Like SIG 320. All sarcasm aside though – it is a darn shame that SIG is not recalling all of them without any questions asked. Kudos for figuring out the real/additional failure point!

  • With all this hoopla over the 320 I remember the Glock Gen 1 problems. We just get them issued and back they go. Other companies make mistakes and miss something and eventually fix them or do a redesign of some parts. We seem to forget these past problems with other popular well made guns. Ah yes then there was the M9 with the slide flying off problem.
    Should these things happen? Well we wish they didn’t but it seems that with all the recalls of various brands over the years it’s something that may continue to happen.
    This particular problem isn’t one I’m all that stoked about.

    • Bill

      People’s expectations of almost every manufactured product is unrealistic at best. From spoons to space shuttles, it can fail.

      Seriously, my wife bought spoons that look cool, but have such a steep curvature that they are incredibly uncomfortable to eat with.

  • Seamus Bradley

    HEY PATRICK, JUST TO REALLY MAKE THE TROLLS ANGRY… HIT THE SLIDE OF THE P320 WITH A GLOCK AND WATCH THE HATE FLOW LIKE LIBERAL TEARS!!!

  • Don’t forget the Canick seems to as well from the latest home testing video.

  • ostiariusalpha

    If you drop a striker-fired pistol pretty hard, then you should assume the trigger is dead. Though it’s an easy check on the VP9 because it has a full tension indicator on the back.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/799ba30a83e3ecb905fc18c98d0e67bb9421edc00cc4cac87464021211bf8ab3.jpg

    • Ky Luong

      Partial tension strike fire pistol will not experience a dead trigger. You can try it on your glock or any partial tension strike fire pistols if you like.

      The user might not be aware if their full tension fire arms experience a hard hit or shock. It could be in the user holster when the hard hit or shock happen. That’s the main problem, not being aware of having a dead trigger.

  • Kim Jong kaboom

    Cabela’s is pulling all P320’s from the shelves. All showing OOS on the site. This may nudge the voluntary upgrade to a mandatory recall. Anyone injured by an unmodified P320 will (rightly ir wrongly) drag this particular defect into the mix. I’d expect other shops to follow suit and pull stock until inventory is fixed. To avoid liability, I’d imagine it’s a good idea for shops to give a recall heads up to customers who have purchased P320’s. What a mess. I feel bad for fans of Sigs who are suffering under the current cost-cutting leadership. This is Kimber deja vu.

  • Lee Attiny

    I hit every new pistol I buy with a hammer to make sure it doesn’t fire. If you think that’s bad you wouldn’t believe what happens when you microwave a 1911.

  • datimes

    I was surprised to see Pat load an empty case in the magazine and expect it to chamber. During training sessions this was done all the time to keep us up to speed on malfunction drills.

  • Kurt Ingalls

    Very true….in this though, Sig absolutely knew it was a problem….

  • MattW

    Is the XD a full tension striker design as well?

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  • transvaluation

    Not to diminish the issue. The issue is the issue.
    A gun firing when someone isn’t physically pulling the trigger on purpose, is not good.

    Forcing it by hitting it with a hammer, not so concerned.

    Dropping it and it landing ‘wrong’ and it going bang, much bigger issue that needs to be fixed.

    What is surprising is this is happening to the company that pretty much
    standardized (if not invented? someone will correct this statement if
    mistaken) the trigger safety that’s been around in their weapons since
    the 70’s. I have seen videos of people beating on p226/229/220’s with
    hammers, dropping them, abusing them, and they do not go bang unless the
    trigger is pulled.

    It’s disconcerting that the company usually associated with high end quality somehow missed one of the things that they popularized.

    Now the hype as to when did they know it was a
    potential issue, was it when the police department reported the drop
    fire? Was it during the trials? Was it …? It’s all speculation. From
    all of the articles it APPEARS, once notified, they went to work on the
    issue. Some of the solutions could be related to other ‘fixes’ they
    were already working on, some/all could be new once discovered.

    They had made several trigger changes during the m17 trials, most notably the
    ‘adverse’ trigger which added mass to the trigger (much heavier than
    the original it replaced), did that required change contribute to the
    issue? From the Omaha Outdoors testing it seems that the mass of the
    trigger directly influences the issue, so this change could be a/the
    contributor?

    Once notified (or discovered) they seem to be going
    beyond what is being recommended by the third parties who have
    replicated the issue and are doing more than just replacing the trigger?
    At least that’s how it appears from some of the articles published
    before their actual notice coming on Monday the 14th.

    So all that said, is it an issue, YES. Is it a BIG issue, YES. Are they
    addressing the issue in a relatively short time frame, it appears the
    answer is yes. Should it have happened in the first place, opinion
    would say NO, with a ‘but’.

    Lighting your hair on fire and running around doesn’t solve anything, unless you are a XXX ‘fanboy’ and just hate SIG because they finally won the contract.

    Why the over-inflated Press? It is News, Sig having a major issue IS NEWS!
    Because it is so out of place compared to the history of the company, that
    makes it News. Also, if some of the numbers are correct, they sold
    500,000 of these, and getting the information out is GOOD. Now we will see
    how well they handle the Voluntary ‘RECALL’ Upgrade, God I hate marketing and
    lawyers.

  • Hyasuma

    Sig’s customer service always fails to service. Had a friend who had to deal with his legions

  • Royce Williams

    My prediction is when we finally identify the engineering flaw in the P320 trigger group, it will have absolutely nothing to do with the mass or weight of the trigger components and everything to do with the reason the P320 has that light, smooth, and crisp trigger that seemed until now to be the best of the box factory trigger ever offered by a major player in the LE duty weapon market.

  • Seth Hill

    So TFB (and this also applies to other gun blogs/sites), when are you going to start writing about the abomination that is our US “safety standards” and testing methodologies, as they relate to firearms? You know, since this gun PASSED said “safety standards” and testing.

  • PhilipVanCleave

    I think the trigger had to move back at least enough to release the striker block. I still contend that my test would settle the issue – block the trigger so there is 0 movement, then beat the gun, drop the gun, whatever, and see if it FIRES. The striker might drop, but it should be blocked by the striker block as long as the trigger doesn’t move very far to the rear.

  • 🦑 🐙

    Patrick, strap a zip tie to hold the trigger forward and then hammer the back of the gun to see if the striker can still hit the primer.

  • Badwolf
  • Kivaari

    Patrick your hammer test was more gentle than the SAAMI mallet test. Also people have missed that SAAMI requires a muzzle up drop like the Omaha Outdoors test. All from 42 inches.