Omaha Outdoors P-320 Drop Test Video / It failed when dropped on the butt of the gun

Just when we thought the P-320 saga was put to bed Omaha Outdoors released a video showing the standard model being dropped on the butt of the pistol. The competition model passed the test they explain in their blog post.

After talking with Hugh at Omaha Outdoors they performed the drops in the video from thigh high which resulted in the primer going off. They were safe and did not use live rounds simply primed cases. After the test they tried contacting SIG but have not been able to so far.

Not having been involved in the testing I’m not going to speculate just show you the video and let you draw your own conclusions. Omaha also did a blog post which you can read here: Omaha Blog Post

Hugh was kind enough to give us permission to show the video of the test. When SIG replies we’ll let you know.





Phil White

Retired police officer with 30 years of service. Firearms instructor and SRU team member. I still instruct with local agencies. My daily carry pistol is the tried and true 1911. I’m the Associate Editor and moderator at TFB. I really enjoy answering readers questions and comments. We can all learn from each other about our favorite hobby!


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  • RSG

    Ruh Ro.

  • nova3930

    So basically firing based on the inertia of the trigger itself. It’s an issue but not one I’m particularly concerned about…..

    • James

      I get that, it looks to be an inertia based firing. Reducing the inertia of the trigger group by reducing it’s weight or adding a blade safety seems to be a rather simple fix though. Use thinner but higher grade steel, switch to something like 7075 Aluminum or for the fancy models a titanium trigger, etc. There’s a variety of ways to fix this.

      • nova3930

        That and in 20 some odd years of shooting I don’t believe I’ve ever dropped a pistol. There’s a risk there but use an appropriate holster, appropriate weapon manipulation techniques and most importantly, follow the darn rules and the risk is minimal.

        • I tend to agree with you. I’ve never dropped a pistol either and I’ve been shooting a good deal longer. It can happen for sure especially with a new shooter.

          • 10x25mm

            Mud, blood, sweat, and slime are all impediments to retaining control of a pistol in genuine combat – with an adversary trying to get it away from you at close quarters. Why checkering and stippling were invented.

          • That and level III retention holsters.

          • I’ve had that happen several times over the years. They never got it out of my duty holster which was a level III retention.

        • Friend of Tibet

          But we are talking about controlled environment shooting range vs real combat situation,

          Close IED explosion, sudden ambush, dash to cover, shooting while moving, there are many chances for the pistol to drop even with a proper holster.

          • Anything can happen no doubt.

          • nova3930

            No doubt $#!^ happens but the risk is so low it’s not worth talking about. If you got IEDs going off that close to you, your issues are much bigger than is your pistol gonna go off IF it happens to come out of your holster and IF it hits in the exact right way.

            In managing risk in aviation, that’s what we call secondary and tertiary hazards….

          • Friend of Tibet

            IED is only one possible scenario, I have seen people’s warbelt buckle failed during running with pistol landed on hammer.

            In real combat, loaded pistol dropped from dash in a vehicle or from equipment bag happens more often than you think.

          • nova3930

            And again, it has to fall the exact right way, which is expected based on the physics. Not enough inertia in the right direction and the trigger doesn’t move far enough. From a probability perspective there are lots of other things I’d worry about first.

            Secondarily, you’re not talking about a pistol that will be used in “real combat” The M17 has a manual safety that the 320 does not so I suspect it has no issue…

          • Kivaari

            Since the safety is an after thought, would you carry it with the safety engaged or like it was supposed to be carried?

          • nova3930

            For a combat pistol I don’t see a thumb safety as a detriment. Would probably carry with it on.

          • Kivaari

            I carried Glocks for too many years. I find safeties to be unneeded.

          • nova3930

            I don’t think they’re detrimental but I don’t think they’re necessary either. It’s all a matter of the process you’re trained to. Like training to use a decocker on a da/sa

          • flyingburgers

            In aviation you have the Swiss cheese model. Accidents are caused by a number of minor lapses or mistakes lining up. Example, Air Midwest 5481 crashed because of a inexperienced mechanic, confusing documentation, poor inspection, outdated FAA assumptions, and the commercial load demand on the flight. Net result: plane cratered, 21 dead. In aviation, you recognize that reduction of any risk (making the holes in the Swiss cheese smaller) results in an improvement in overall safety.

          • nova3930

            You’re looking at it from the civilian model where those no risk acceptance. There is some baseline level of risk, defined by the regulatory authority, in aviation that you must get to in order to operate. That baseline redefines constantly depending on what new information becomes available.

            I’m talking about risk management from the DoD side where there is risk acceptance. There we have to define both the hazard and probability to determine the risk level. In doing that we don’t look at secondary and tertiary effects of failures to determine what the actual hazard is.

          • flyingburgers

            This is a gun sold to civilians. You want to spend 10 years in jail for negligent homicide, or worse? Because they left out a 10 cent piece of trigger plastic.

          • nova3930

            turn the emotional hyperbole off. if you’re that scared then by all means get rid of it. there’s no reason to be though…

          • I’m curious if dropping it on the ground would produce the same results?

          • nova3930

            Probably depends on the surface. Softer the surface the lower the probability due to the reduced impulse.

          • That’s what I was thinking.

          • nova3930

            IMO it’s an issue Sig should correct just because it’s such a minimal revision. People acting like it’s “shake Taurus to fire” are going overboard though.

          • 10x25mm

            Reduces impulse, but extends the duration of the impact event. Longer duration may be even more likely to disengage a sear mechanism and the trigger actuated firing pin block.

            Does not change the amount of energy the pistol has when it hits ground, all else equal.

          • nova3930

            Possibly. Didn’t think from that angle. Was thinking about lowering the average force compared to the resistance of the trigger mechanism. IE if you have a 6lb trigger pull but only see 3lbs of force you’re probably ok.

            Suppose it depends on the root cause within the mechanism, sear disengagement alone or disengagement due to trigger pull.

          • Andrew

            The DoD is actually very risk averse. I do, however, agree that this is not a dealbreaker, and will probably be easily fixed before it has a chance to be a problem (on the mil side).

          • William Elliott

            isn’t that what lead to the whole Apollo 13 episode? [well that and stacking tolerances]

          • nova3930

            A13 was damaged wiring, probably due to assembly mistakes. Possibly you’re conflating that with Challenger and it’s o-rings in the cold…

          • William Elliott

            my bad. I originally heard it was a stacking tolerance issue where everything was at minimum tolerance and that’s what caused the short

          • nova3930

            It’s possible that’s what damaged the wire. I don’t really know any details beyond damaged wiring.

          • flyingburgers

            Yup. Daily carry has plenty of opportunities. I’ve had a gun fall right down my pants leg due to a belt malfunction. Also launched one across the room racking it with oily gloves on after cleaning.

        • BeGe1

          I’m sorry but you don’t know jack about life with firearms beyond the firing range. That’s why you’ve got 20 years of shooting without jack happening, is because you’ve done 20 years of shooting in a controlled environment where jack doesn’t happen.

          Even in just military TRAINING exercises I’ve dove into rocky surfaces with harder impact than those pistols were hitting the ground in the video.

          I’ve seen 7-tons loaded with Marines in the back hit bumps that imparted more force than that on the occupants.

          I’ve seen holsters broken in half, or have the mounts snapped off and the gun being dragged by the lanyard while the guy tries to reel it back in.

          And most of all let’s not forget that these are SERVICE weapons made for ACTUAL COMBAT, of both the military and police variety.

          Sweaty hands, bloody hands, diving for cover, incoming bullets throwing pieces of debris at you, people with partially disabled hands yet still trying to stay in the fight to be 1 more gun up, objects falling on your firing position while you’re in it, scalding brass from the guy next to you jamming in your neckline or going up your sleeve, actual hand to hand struggles, etc. etc. Not to mention…people die. People drop guns when they die…that shouldn’t involve a discharge that kills the person next to them too.

          It may just be a range toy to you…but it’s not to everyone.

          • nova3930

            #1. P320 not M17. The P320 is a weapon for civilians and law enforcement, NOT soldiers in the field. Maybe you should get that simple fact straight before you continue talking from your sewer pipe GI Joe.

            #2. You know exactly ZERO about the forces involved on any occupant, piece of equipment or component of equipment in anything you mentioned. So as someone who has actually done T&E for a living, involving measurements of forces and accelerations beyond the Mark I human eyeball, you probably want to quit talking out of your sewer pipe about that altogether.

            Or second thought, keep right on thinking that the drop safety of a civilian weapon in an extremely limited fall regime is some critical issue for a DIFFERENT SECONDARY weapon for the military. It makes you look like a GD genius with all the emotional hyperbole that goes along with it.

          • BeGe1

            #1 …first of all, we’re talking about both. The M17 has the same issue, genius. It’s the same gun with a couple specs changed for military training purposes. When you’re shooting at people the safety tends to be off.

            …second of all, where did you get the idea where combat isn’t combat when it’s bullets flying between civilians and/or police? Is that something else you learned in your defensive pistol class? It’s not combat when someone shoots at you because you don’t have a military ID card?

            #2 Well…you couldn’t have walked into that one better. Guess what I am now? A software engineer (and a defensive firearms instructor…but I digress). I’ve WRITTEN physics engines that are more complicated than the forces in play we’re talking about here. Velocity attained in 30″ of drop (which is a level at which they were able to achieve an ND) does not lead much force in the context here. You seem to actually not realize that. Not only did this have ND’s from dropping, but it actually had relatively EASY ones.

          • nova3930

            #1. So you’re incompetent enough to drop the pistol while you’re pulling the trigger. Some instructor you are. Secondarily, equating “combat” to civilian and LE use is why some soldiers shouldn’t become law enforcement, you probably #1 on the list. Combat entails fighting with enemy opposition with the intent to destroy and/or kill as much as possible, compared to civilian and LE use where the intent is to stop the threat, not kill and destroy. Or at least I would hope police don’t go out with the intent to kill and destroy, if they do we have problems….

            #2. Hurrah! GI Joe can write code. Goody for you Major Meathead. Old flight test engineer friend of mine has a saying: “Simulation is like masturbation, the more you do it, the more you think it’s the real thing, but it never is.” Something tells me you and your computer are really experienced playing with yourselves. You don’t know what any of the forces involved are until you actually install accelerometers and rate gyros and take data. REAL engineers like me actually take data instead of playing of the computer and thinking it’s the real world.

            Now if you’re finished being foolish, today I actually have work to do supporting deployed aircraft for the troops who are in real combat….

        • Kivaari

          Give it a few more years. In 50 years I HAVE dropped gun, or had them fall from holsters.

          • nova3930

            Like I said, $%(* happens but anyone dropping guns enough that they’re worried about the very limited impact regime presented is doing it wrong. Their processes and procedures are much more of a problem than their choice of equipment in that case….

          • Kivaari

            Except, there are other guns available that don’t go off if dropped “just right”. I would not buy a P320 based upon this defect in design.

          • nova3930

            Thats fine. No skin off my nose. Everybody has to make their own choices.

            I have one and like it, although I’ve considered trading it on a P10. If I didn’t have quite so many P320 holsters It would probably be a done deal. I’m just not going to worry about things that are really of no consequence.

        • James

          A different James replying here.

          In 6+yrs of 3Gun, I’ve seen loaded pistols hit the ground probably near a dozen times. It’s an automatic safety DQ.

          Usually this is a result of improper holster retention on non-level 1 and up holsters in a stage requiring full gate running. Sometimes it’s from improper grounding into the designated box. Reasonably drop safe pistols should be an imperative.

          • nova3930

            Don’t disagree. At the same time it’s not the enormous issue some people want to make it out to be. The stuff you listed are all failures of holster/belt or process and procedure. The mechanical safety of the pistol is your LAST line of defense, not the first. The individual taking steps to keep control of the pistol is the first.

        • SPQR9

          That has to be the most meaningless anecdote that I’ve ever heard.

      • Edeco

        They should make it out of plastic, with lots of friction 😀

      • ProLiberty82

        I sense an Apex blade trigger upgrade kit on the way.

        I wonder why they didn’t put a trigger blade drop safety on there like every other striker fired pistol?

      • When they swapped triggers with the competition model it wouldn’t fire. That X series trigger is a hair lighter.

        • Sunshine_Shooter

          So, now the question becomes “If I reduce the trigger weight by XX%, what distance does it have to be dropped to fire?” If the hair-lighter trigger makes it go off from 3″ higher, not a good fix. If the slightly lighter trigger makes it have to fall from 7 or 8 feet, that’s a viable solution.

    • Independent George

      I am – and I say this redfaced as somebody who’s advocated getting rid of the trigger dingus for ages. I was dead wrong.

      As it turns out, actual firearms engineers (but not the ones at SIG) know better than some random yahoo on the internet. Who knew?

      • nova3930

        There’s no particular reason to be. Risk has two factors, hazard and probability and the probability of this extremely low. The probability of a drop plus the probability of falling at the exact angle necessary to move the trigger to fire is down in the weeds. It should probably be corrected just because the required revision is minimal but it’s not something I’d worry about….

        • Independent George

          I think the probability is a lot higher than you are allowing.

          • nova3930

            It’s just a SWAG on my part but I look at it like this. You must have a failure of holster/belt or of weapon manipulation. From the testing in this article, that failure must result in the pistol experiencing free fall from waist height or equivalent. The impact from that fall must result in an force vector of sufficient size and direction to move the trigger rearward far enough to fire. Stack those probabilities together and the number starts getting really small really quick

          • flyingburgers

            You try to reholster the gun quickly and miss.

          • nova3930

            That’s what I’d categorize as “improper weapon manipulation.” Re-holstering is and should be a slow deliberate act done with an abundance of caution.

          • flyingburgers

            Again, only realistic at a range. A police officer comes up to a scene and draws his gun. He decides that it isn’t necessary and that he needs his taser or pepper spray. Or maybe another officer has the suspect at gunpoint and his job is to apply handcuffs. A quick reholstering results.

          • nova3930

            No it’s not. Why exactly does that officer have to reholster fast enough to be reckless? In the first example, there’s an active or potential threat in front of them so they decide to holster their pistol? That’s nonsense. In the second, the threat is being addressed by the other officer. The extra few seconds required to holster in an appropriate controlled manner changes nothing.

            I’ve taken defensive handgun courses from several different instructors and the rule has always been, draw quickly, holster slowly both for reasons of safety and for the reason of ensuring the threat has ended before putting your weapon away. That doesn’t change just because you get a badge and a uniform.

          • Friend of Tibet

            If a firearm can fire when dropped, it is a risk.

            Does not matter if the holster/retention system failed or the firearm is mis-manipulated.

            In the end of the day if the gun fired due to any of these failure a LEO or a solider might get injured or even killed.

            It is better to minimize any potential risk than just going into complicated combat environment with potential ND risk.

            Not to mention it only require such small change to eliminate such problem.

          • nova3930

            None of these pistols are going into combat. The P320 is not the M17. The M17 has a manual safety.

            Out here in the real world, we accept calculated risks constantly.

          • Friend of Tibet

            Oh yep, I bet M9 and 1911 never had one ND problem in history of US military by your logic.

            Truth is, M9 and 1911 had many ND reported cases, and they all have safety!

            Your fantasy of Sig is not only unrealistic, but that “calculated risks” thingy sounds like total crap.

            Why don’t you carry a fully loaded MK18 with finger on the trigger muzzle sweeping your teammates as these are just “calculated risks”….

            And even muzzle sweeping your team with a loaded firearm is safer than a pistol dropped on floor and fires…..

          • nova3930

            Since you don’t have the faintest clue what my logic actually is you’re yet another person who should quit talking out of their sewer pipe. Especially with dumbass comments about sweeping people with loaded weapons.

          • Friend of Tibet

            But but, “weeping people with loaded weapons” is the same calculated risk you keep BS about. And look at how many people disagree with you. If anything, people like you should think about “Maybe I should stop taking Sig’s money and stop BS on firearm blog “

          • nova3930

            Are you really that dense to think that? To equate deliberate use of a weapon in an unsafe manner with a known material hazard? You must think “pilot error” and “wing fell off” are the same too…

          • BeGe1

            I’m glad that you somehow took a lesson away from a defensive handgun course that things always go as is optimal and that you’ll always have the chance and state of mind in combat to follow well thought out procedures…but I digress…

            Reality is that, user error or not, guns get dropped. It’s not always the idiot that does the dropping that gets killed from the ND.

            Think of the dumbest/clumsiest gun owning person you know. Now think about how if THEY had to be beside YOU at the range, do you want them to have a drop safe gun or not? YOU may very well be the one dead from THEM doing the dropping.

            As I said, there’s simply no good reason to not engineer drop safe pistols in this day and age. Even many budget companies have managed to do it, so I’m damn sire SIG SAUER can be held to such a standard.

          • nova3930

            What exactly don’t you have the chance to do? The issue was reholstering and reholstering is what you do when the threat is OVER. There is no legit reason to ever rapidly holster your pistol. Even if you think you are, you’re not some cowboy quick gun showing off.

            Fact is you train it correctly and you practice it correctly EVERY SINGLE TIME and it becomes automatic so state of mind has NOTHING to do with it.

            I don’t disagree that they should be drop safe and I think Sig should fix it, but at the same time people are making a mountain out of a molehill. I’m 20 years in and have never, not once dropped a gun. If you’re dropping guns, you’re doing something wrong and you need to figure out what it is and correct it. The mechanical solution is the LAST line of defense when it comes to safe operations, practices and procedures are the first.

          • BeGe1

            No, that’s NOT the fact. That’s simply Nova’s armchair “facts” from Nova’s belief that training always works, that the range is the real world and that 20 years of the range somehow makes it even more real world.

            Meanwhile in the REAL real world even well trained people will do everything up to and including trying to throw their pistol thinking they had a grenade in their hand when the adrenaline and fog-of-war kicks in.

            And no, the “issue” was not just “reholstering and reholstering is what you do when the threat is OVER”. Again, that’s Nova’s world where combat is always exactly what Nova fantasizes it being. Sometimes you’re reholstering because you’ve managed to unhook your service rifle and need to transition to it within a quarter of a second in order return effective fire. Sometimes you’re reholstering because a kid just ran out of the building and you’re trying to grab him and pull him into your place of cover. Sometimes you’re reholstering because your buddy just went down and you need to throw a tourniquet on him or put a chest seal on his sucking chest would. Heck…sometimes you’re reholstering because a bullet just took out part of your brain and you don’t even know where you are anymore and you’re about to drop dead in 30 seconds.

            The “issue” is that a COMBAT pistol IS going to get dropped, thrown, beaten, and impacted in all sorts of various ways. The “issue” is that that needs to not make it discharge.

          • nova3930

            Why don’t you go somewhere else till you realize we’re talking about the P320 for civilians and LE and not the M17 combat pistol GI Joe. Maybe go take your meds while you’re at it….

          • Friend

            That should be a banner.

            Not at all something to make light of, mate. If you want to make fun of people who put their lives on the line for you, I suggest you find somewhere else to do it.

            I’m just some kid with too much time on his hands and I’ve got more sense than that.

          • nova3930

            Lol. Trust me I work every day with people who’ve actually put their lives on the line in the military. Goes with my line of work actually directly supporting deployed soldiers. Those guys don’t lose their cool over nothing like Major Meathead up there.

          • The_Champ

            I can think of several instances in my few years in law enforcement where I had to rapidly re-holster my pistol in order to go hands on with a suspect. In one particular instance I was already fighting with my support side hand and then holstering to get my other hand into the fight.

            Re-holstering slowly might be a ok general rule for civilians, but it really shouldn’t be that hard for you to imagine a scenario where a quick re-holster might be needed, or critical.

          • BeGe1

            Wow, nice.

            First of all, if you’re in a gunfight, you’re in combat. Period. That applies to police and civilian usage too. In fact the “unhook your service rifle” was even specifically targeted at police. Infantry doesn’t exactly walk around with their service rifle hooked to the wall, genius.

            Police/civilians bleed when they’re shot. Police/civilians catch fragments from incoming bullets. Police/civilians grab people to pull into cover, etc. etc. You should have learned about that in your defensive pistol class.

            When people shoot at you it’s combat, and everything I said above applies. The P320 is a combat pistol.

            And I like how when someone owns you based on your naivety you go to things like “PTSD meds”. Nice.

          • Anon

            Sorry, but you’re wrong. There are plenty of times someone may need to reholster in a hurry: when a fight turns physical but deadly force isn’t justified, to switch to a Taser, to suddenly go into foot pursuit, to deal with an environmental hazard…the list is endless. Sometimes you have to reholster Right Now, period, or someone may get hurt. Done it many times, and until you’ve been there it’s hard to understand.

          • Rob

            As someone who carried a firearm for a living in places overseas that were hostile, guns get dropped and banged around. A LOT.

            I have been hearing reports of ADs from LEOs with the P320 for a while now. Some of those were reported to have occurred with pistols that were still holstered. After a while, if you see enough smoke, you expect to find fire.

          • Tom Currie

            An “AD” on a “holstered pistol” is best described by the four letter code NDBS.

            It is the same NDBS as the all too frequent cases of Glock Leg when departments transitioned from revolvers to the Glock and no one managed to teach the officers to Remove Finger From Trigger Before Inserting Gun Into Holster.

          • AZgunner

            Sadly, I’ve been with another officer who dropped his pistol on the ground in the middle of an emergency room. Yes, the guy is a jackass. But it can and does happen.

      • n0truscotsman

        I never liked trigger ‘dinguses’ either, but saw the wisdom of them when I underwent some real training.

    • Hoplopfheil

      This is exactly the same issue that the last generation of Taurus Millennium Pros had, leading to their recall.

      Several people were injured when their gun fell out of their carry system (i.e. when getting out of a car, or taking off a jacket) and hit the ground.

      It’s not too surprising that a loaded gun would fall on its rear end, since that’s where the majority of the weight is when loaded.

      • nova3930

        So in other words after their crappy holster failed. Hmmmmm…..

        • Hoplopfheil

          Worse than that, because the Mil Pros also have manual safeties which prevent the trigger from moving.

          • nova3930

            So it wasn’t the exact same issue. If the safety prevents movement of the trigger, then it was an issue of the gun not controlling the striker or similar.

          • Hoplopfheil

            No, it means that they didn’t have the safety on, or they had the safety on incorrectly.

            There is a separate recall for the Taurus Mil Pro for the safety, because it’s possible to apply the safety while the trigger is partly pulled. If you do that, the trigger will still be active for one shot, even though the safety is on.

            If you employ the manual safety (correctly), it will be drop safe.

        • Independent George

          Or when they accidentally knocked it out of their holster while shouldering a bag at Orlando International Airport…

          • I was waiting for that:-)

          • nova3930

            I had no idea that’s what happened in Orlando. Just went and read an article and it looks like we had improper holster retention, lack of care by the person carrying and oh by the way, guns are like knives, don’t try to catch one that’s falling.

            IIRC that’s ultimately how Plaxico Burris shot himself. No holster, gun falls and trys to catch it. Pulls trigger….

          • Independent George

            I’m just making the point that the advice to not try to catch a falling gun is a lot better when the gun won’t discharge if it lands on the back of the slide.

            Dropped guns happen quite often, and it’s best if this kind of discharge is not possible with a functioning weapon.

          • nova3930

            I’ve said I think SIG should correct it just because it’s such a minor revision. But again, start stacking the probabilities and you quickly see it’s not a major risk, not even close. It’s not “shake Taurus to fire” for sure…

    • Interesting to note that striker-fired handguns have had trigger dinguses for decades for this very reason.

      So, uh, good one SIG.

      Maybe M17 will get a dingus. I know SIG has one ready to go.

      • nova3930

        Just a guess but I think the 320 will get it before the M17 since the M17 has the manual safety.

        Overall I find the whole thing odd. The p320 was released in Jan of 14, has been dissected, manhandled, torture test and fawned over by everybody who’s anybody in the firearms world and as far as I know, nobody ever brought it up as a potential issue. Did everybody drink the derpaid at once or what? As much as every little issue with firearms is magnified on the internet, you’d think something as big as unintentional discharge would be huge if one actually happened in that time period, especially as many as SIG has sold….

        • Rob

          Reports of problems have been there but they were discounted for one reason of other. 48hrs ago this was still a Glock conspiracy according to the internet.

        • Independent George

          Because it doesn’t show up on a standard drop test.

          • nova3930

            Now go and ask yourself after decades and thousands of engineering hours across multiple companies and organizations those standards were chosen instead of what causes this behavior.

        • Same thing that had me curious. Two years and no real incidents of any injury or much of anything until lately. It just seems strange.

          • CommonSense23

            Honestly I’m not surprised we are just now seeing it. It wasn’t a standard test. Things become a standard and that’s all people test. Then the fact that this issue apparently is the lack of trigger tab. Which most striker fired guns have. So it’s something that isn’t normally a issue but now is and most people don’t even think about it.

    • Rob

      You should be.

    • overlander

      The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Dare I suggest a name change to sigsauer3930?

    • BeGe1

      A pretty serious issue.

      Honestly, there’s no place for non-drop safe pistols in this day and age. We’re long past the point where drop safe pistols can be engineered.

  • txJM

    Aw, shit.

  • John

    And here we have ANOTHER reason why the U.S. military mandates a safety on their firearms. Sig is clear.

    • MrBrassporkchop

      Oh but no you don’t need it because like they only needed safety because they rode horses or something like that!/s

  • feetpiece _

    Nambu #2: Electric Boogaloo…

    Gun Jesus, save us!

    • Pseudo

      “The gun is perfectly safe. Just don’t tap the side of the gun with the exposed sear. Gun safety rule #72.”

  • Bearacuda

    I read elsewhere that one pistol would not malfunction in this way and that the pistols used had been “torture tested” previously. I’d be interested to see if this effected the results.

    • J.T.

      Did you watch the video? They answer that.

    • Independent George

      Incorrect. 3 of the 4 pistols were torture tested, and one was not. The untested gun failed as did two of the torture tested ones. The one that passed had a lighter trigger (the actual physical trigger, and not the trigger pull), and did not generate enough force from the drop to fire the gun.

      • Yep the X series pistol did fine with the lighter trigger. They also took the trigger from the X series and placed it in the standard model. It had no problem with that lighter trigger installed.

  • Old Tofu

    (braces for impact) . . . sig sauer . . . the taurus of europe

    • TheChunkNorris

      You mean the US…

      • SP mclaughlin

        Assembled in the favelas of Exeter, New Hampshire!

        • TheChunkNorris

          Pretty sure the only thing that comes out of Germany is their race guns. Specifically the X line(except the 320).

    • Hoplopfheil

      They might fix this just like Taurus did. Replace the heavy trigger with a lighter one (and a safety blade in the middle).

      Problem solved! Except for the massive recall…

      • Yea it would take some time. I guess you could buy a trigger for the X series and fix it. That’s what they did in the testing these guys did.
        My hats off to them for spending the money on these guns to test them,

  • Dan

    This will get resolved right away if sig wants to stay in business. I predict a belt-and-suspenders solution: mandatory recall on all 320s with a free retrofit of a 1) glock style safety trigger that is 2) also lighter. They HAVE to do it.

  • Major Tom

    Now repeat the test exactly with a Glock.

    • Royce Williams

      It’s been done countless times, Glock’s don’t drop fire! Can you say trigger tab?

    • ostiariusalpha

      Cops drop their Glocks on the regular. This is a non-issue for the Glawk. I say that as someone who has no love lost for Gaston’s gat.

  • Alexander Nguyen

    Hahahahahaha it’s 2017 and I remember how many marketing majors there were in business school a few years ago. This is the result of grubby white-collar thirst, omg here’s my 6-figure marketing salary I get for lying to people as a career!! So cuuuute!!! Now companies literally just lie through their teeth. Of course Sig would claim there are no problems! Wouldn’t want to mess up anyone’s resumes right???? I got a finance degree and I know way too many sleezy shitbags trying to justify their paychecks while just gossiping about Netflix all day in the office

  • HKfan

    I am surprised that Omaha is suspending P320 sales.

    However, I go think that SIG should introduce the P320 safety tabbed trigger or lower the mass of the trigger itself. I do know that many guns will do this presumed that they are loaded, do not have a manual safety or trigger safety device, and are just dropped it the right spot where the trigger travels rearward and fires.

    I wouldn’t consider this a defect but think SIG needs to release their safety tabbed trigger just because 80% of polymer framed, striker guns have it (Glock, VP, PPQ, APX)

    • PK

      “I do know that many guns will do this presumed that they are loaded, do
      not have a manual safety or trigger safety device, and are just dropped
      it the right spot where the trigger travels rearward and fires.”

      Tons of guns will do this, yes. The most popular guns that are carried loaded without safeties, such as the striker guns you mention, don’t have this issue specifically because of the trigger safety you mention, even though they tend to lack a manual safety (by sheer number of guns) overall.

      Go figure! I can’t picture someone carrying a P320 loaded and ready to go, without any safety of any kind engaged. Personally, as with the Glock series, I would prefer a safety that is on the trigger alone. No extra steps, still very safe.

    • SPQR9

      They have to suspend. They can’t put out a post that says they got a P320 to AD and keep selling them. Too much liability.

      • ARCNA442

        There are plenty of pistols out there that aren’t drop safe, I don’t think the retailer has any liability for selling them.

  • JumpIf NotZero

    Not bad Andrew. Looking good man. I haven’t been following OmahaOutdoors but will. Texas huh?

  • Matt from marxachusetts

    “the tabbed trigger safety” that was the one conclusion I could come up with to explain why the p320 could fire when dropped.

    • Paveway

      P250 -> P320 -> ?P390??

  • Matt

    P320-2 coming soon…

  • KestrelBike

    I wondered if the P320 was on CA’s commielist of approved handguns, but it isn’t.

    Had it been on the list, it would have been hilarious to tell CA that their roster which assumes passage of a drop-safety test is pure garbage.

    • nanoc

      The California drop test may have been able to catch this. They require the pistol to be dropped in 6 different orientations one of which is on the rear of the pistol and they do these these on 3 pistols.

  • Widgt

    I don’t see this a big deal. Soldiers rarely drop or break any of their equipment. It’ll be fine.

    • PK

      Yeah… should be fine!

    • nova3930

      The m17 has a manual safety that should negate any issues with firing due to inertia of the trigger…..

      • Rob

        What if the Safety is disengaged when it is dropped?

      • ostiariusalpha

        Unless you took it off safe, and then dropped it/had it knocked from your hand.

      • BeGe1

        I seem to recall being taught something about reliance upon manual safeties for safe handling…

    • Some Rabbit

      As I recall they made a rather big deal about not dropping your weapon in boot camp.

      • Daniel F. Melton

        Ever been in a combat zone? Things happen that are not covered in basic training and AIT just barely begins to prepare ya for the reality.

    • civilianaf

      Yup no big deal.

    • Daniel F. Melton

      Ya forgot the sarc tag.

  • PK

    I’m sure this is going to work out well.

  • GuySerious

    “If we drop the gun in a specific way, with specific parts hitting the ground at the same time; then the firearm will go off”

    And once again, like with gel ammo testing we have a problem: No Control group, no detailing each drop and whether or not it was dropped by a machine or a person. No scientific method, no way to reproduce the experiment. Stop armchair Engineering and actually do this right.

    “other protocols” what the hell does that even mean? Which protocols? Who published them?

    If you’re not documenting your results, you’re doing it wrong.
    If you’re not making your methods available, you’re doing it wrong.
    If you then demure and suddenly go ‘Well, we’re not scientists or engineers…” then not only are you doing it wrong you’re basically admitted your ‘experiment’ is bullshit.

    • Dropped by hand from mid thigh onto concrete.

      • GuySerious

        That’s not a measurement, that’s anecdotal. What is the person’s height? Was it the same person every time? If you’re referring to ‘other protocols’ then which association/government agency/ safety manual’ details the proper testing of this?

        I may just be a simple country engineer, but this still doesn’t pass a smell test.

        • Just saying how they told me it was done. No idea how tall they are.

        • Risky

          It’s not their (Omaha Outdoors) job to systematically test these pistols to ensure they are safe or unsafe. That responsibility falls to SIG SAUER. The Omaha tests demonstrate that SIG has failed in their responsibility as they have repeatedly shown that under reasonable circumstances that the pistol fired when dropped.

          One thing is for certain… bet after watching this video you would do more than hesitate to drop a P320 on it’s butt end whilst looking down at it.

          • GuySerious

            So, it’s not their job to test something but they did anyway and without evidence of how they tested it you’re accepting it as fact instead of actual tests done by the military?

          • Risky

            I’m accepting that they haven’t intentionally performed these tests in a way to replicate the results in order to hurt SIG; is this your belief? If you are skeptical without all the information that’s fine, but if you’re not even slightly concerned at all that the P320 is potentially dangerous after watching these vids I don’t know what to tell you.

            Is there available data on the military tests? If I didn’t know how they did the tests I would expect that the M17 MHS was probably tested with the safety on… so not really the same issue with the P320 (if you know this information please correct me).

          • Friend of Tibet

            “actual tests done by the military”

            So show me the proof the military tested the pistol by dropping it loaded on concrete with same angle? I bet the military did not test this angle.

            Or you are intentionally trying to be selective blind?

          • john huscio

            The US military never finished testing the guns……

        • 201am

          They made an observation to an event and then repeated the event and observation several times.
          The video stands on its own and is a valid data point.
          Lack of a formalized quantitative testing procedure or measurements doesn’t invalidate the observation they made on several repeated attempts.
          They also said in the video, the existing industry standard drop tests procedures did not test a drop on the rear portion of the pistol.

        • n0truscotsman

          I dont think those details are really relevant, and are akin to strawgrasping.

          If it fires being dropped at that height by an average person, thats a no go.

          Hopefully if its a widespread flaw, it can be quickly and inexpensively addressed.

    • Royce Williams

      Who are we going to believe? GuySerious or our lying eyes?

    • Independent George

      You’ve got it backwards.

      If you are claiming a negative – the gun will not fire when dropped – then you need to show your experimental procedures and test parameters to demonstrate that you tested in a representative manner.

      If you are claiming a positive – the gun will fire when dropped – then you need a sample size of one. As long as they didn’t modify the gun in any way, their test is sufficient to prove the claim.

    • John

      As I said earlier, Sig should try to duplicate the result found here and, if they can, they should fix even the remote possibility of an AD from dropping.

  • Rob in Katy

    Maybe rubber bumpers on the rear of the slide, maybe I will put the standard pull Apex back in after I get it back from having the TDL fixed. That wiggle the guide rod doesn’t work for mine so it is going back.

  • Risky

    Right now someone at SIG is crunching the numbers on whether it will be more expensive to administer a recall OR defend the inevitable lawsuit that is coming. Someone is gonna be late for dinner tonight….

    • Trotro

      What’s the Fight Club quote again?

  • marine6680

    I read somewhere that they said this test does not conform to industry standards. So it’s not something the pistol would be specifically designed to pass… Though it should.

    But if it isn’t standard testing, I wonder if other pistols would fail too.

    • ARCNA442

      The question is, why isn’t it industry standard? Did SAAMI overlook something or did OO create a test that doesn’t actually make sense?

      • Independent George

        The former, I suspect.

        I believe the standard test calls for the muzzle to be vertical to the ground for when dropped, instead of an angle, because it’s repeatable – a 90 degree angle can be replicated on every gun. The angle to cause this discharge is unique to every gun based on the shape of the grip, beavertail, etc; it’s obvious visually how the gun has to land to cause the malfunction, but not as easily specified in written testing protocols. Engineers being engineers, they probably thought only in terms of easily repeatable and replicable testing protocols instead of something with more leeway tailored to the gun.

      • marine6680

        Don’t know… Seems like an important testing point.

  • Gregory

    Was there an identical issue with Taurus pistols?

    • MrBrassporkchop

      People are getting super defensive and bash Taurus instead of admitting this. It’s hilarious.

      • mazkact

        I own two 24/7 OSS and one 24/7 tactical, all the same pistol, long slide, double/single with decock by pushing up the frame mounted safety. When this crap happend a few years ago I drop tested all three with a snap cap in the chamber. dropped on Berber carpet from 5′ muzzle down, handle down, on sides and flipped into the air safety off and in single action and never once did the striker fall. The 24/7 OSS was entered in the first program the Army had to replace the M-9 which went nowhere. It’s fun to bash Taurus I know but like many manufacturers they make good stuff and crap stuff.

    • Gary Kirk

      No, you only have to shake those

      • JohnB

        I heard you just have to look funny at them and they go off

        • Gary Kirk

          It’s an automatic response..

    • Actually, one of the problems Taurus was having was they had guns going off when being SHAKEN in the hand.

  • John

    Although I am an admitted f*nboy of Sig, this is not something I would accept in a carry gun. Murphy’s law says, eventually, someone will drop this gun on its butt and someone could get killed from that innocuous action. Sig needs to get with the trigger safety program now.

    I hope Sig mirrors these tests performed here and either proves or disproves the issue. If the issue is valid, Sig should do a full recall and change the triggers out to prevent this in the future. JMHO

    • Daniel F. Melton

      O’Toole’s commentary on Murphy’s Law: Murphy was an optimist. Everything that can go wrong will go wrong, at the worst possible time so as to do the most damage and inflict the highest casualties.

  • MIke H

    One of the first things I did when I bought my P320c was install the Apex flat trigger that didn’t reduce the pull weight. Wonder if that fixes the issue…?

    • Hard to say without testing it with a primer only piece of brass. I use Apex triggers on all of my pistols they make a trigger for and they tend to be a little heavier. I’d call Apex if I were you. Couldn’t hurt to ask.

    • ARCNA442

      Generally, aftermarket triggers are far more likely to cause issues than fix them. I know I wouldn’t carry one unless I knew it had passed standardized drop tests.

  • A.WChuck

    If it is a design defect, there should be no problem duplicating this on several pistols, if not all of them. Until more tests are done, everyone back away from the keyboard and take a breath.

    • john huscio

      They did duplicate this on multiple pistols…..they also got different results on different models suggesting uneven quality control at the factory………..par for the course for cohen-era sig…..

      • A.WChuck

        Yeah, each day brought more news, so old comments are not vaild. Sig needs a real recall ASAP

  • Seth Hill

    So watching the slow motion parts after OO rep states that the trigger continues to move after the gun hits the ground, I do see the trigger continue moving after the gun stops and then rebounds BUT the movement is extremely short. So unless the guns have really short take up and sear release, I would have to disagree with the analysis that the trigger moving is the fault. Also to note is that the one discharge appears it could have been caused by throwing the gun down.

    That being said, I fully support that drop testing should NOT be done on a rubber mat (what was ANSI thinking?) and would love to see other guns (Glocks, M&Ps, etc) drop tested this same way to see if they also experience any discharges.

  • Kivaari

    Excellent for a company to spend the effort and money to conduct such tests.

  • Kivaari

    OK, I am glad I use Glocks.

  • mosinman

    now do it with a Glock

  • Kivaari

    How do they perform if hit while holstered. Like with a baton during training or on the street?

  • st381183

    There is a lot of Sig P320 fan boys writing who cares or could never happen in the forum. Well I care and this gun has moved from must buy to will not buy unless corrected. Murphy’s law is always present and Sig will lose big time it others are able to replicate. In a dynamic fight over a gun anything can happen. The guy that only shoots 20 rounds a year. A gun that is not drop safe is a DANGEROUS gun. If this were Taurus or HiPoint all the fan boys would be crying off with their heads. Sig needs to admit it’s an issue and correct it before someone is killed and a lawsuit drives their market share down and the libtards use it as another nail in the 2A coffin.

  • Mr. Katt

    Nothing to worry about. SIG probably greased enough palms along the way to make up for any damage this P.O.S. causes.

    At least the Army probably stopped at no expense testing this ( as in – no expense incurred )

  • Thomas Bennett

    Put a stupid Trigger safety on it like ALL OTHER STRIKER FIRED GUNS!

  • Kurt Ingalls

    Ok, maybe i’m being an a##….LOL…..does Glock have this problem????……COME ON, LAUGH A LITTLE!!!!!!!! 🙂 …..damnit!!!!!! 🙂

  • koolhed

    Hipoints? More real world use and abuse than the Sig 320… Headlines about Hipoints having ADs? None.

  • Xerxes036

    Can we all agree that this was done with the commerically available versions of the P320 and not the M17. This is a cause for concern because I EDC a P320 Compact but I’m not going to fall into Internet alarmism till I see the results from a scientific test. Forgive me if I don’t hit the panic button. I recall people getting bent out shape over a youtube video about another striker fired gun from certain German manufacturer. If you like the P320 Compact and you feel comfortable with carrying keep carrying it forget what other people think and stick what you feel is best for you.

  • DropGun25

    *See’s title and quickly checks it isn’t written by Patrick before clicking*

    • JumpIf NotZero

      The guy in the video, Andrew is legit. Probably more on the spectrum than most but he understands some things that most people struggle with.

  • Independent George

    That’s my takeaway, too.

    I really can’t actually fault SIG for not identifying a defect in a pistol that passed industry standard testing, but this obviously is a defect. I expect other manufacturers are quietly re-examining their own pistols in light of these results, and would expect that everything with a trigger dingus will pass.

    • zsdlkfjhsdklsjklhf

      Now what did Office Space teach us about the bare minimum? Seriously though, how can a manufacturer NOT discover something like this? I think it’s pretty obvious that the required testing is insufficient to anyone who knew the testing details. Certainly lawyers at these manufacturers at better at their jobs than this would suggest.

    • Daniel F. Melton

      Come on now, it’s not like they’re issuing totally new rifles into a combat zone without cleaning kits and providing substandard ammunition.

      I mean it’s not like the wing spar cracks in the C5A…

      Yet.

  • Joe

    Fak! a gun that shoots if dropped and is is not big deal for you? Do you own one?
    Wonder how Sig will fix this?

  • John

    Well, actually, this might work out great for the Army! If you’re in trouble with nowhere to run and you run out of bullets, you just keep one in your pocket, load it and toss the gun into the enemy’s position. It just might spontaneously discharge scaring the enemy into thinking we have remote control guns!

  • DanGoodShot

    So it only fires when dropped in the worst possible position for the gun to be in(pointed back up at you) but you’re fine any other way… cool! g2g! Why don’t they just throw a little dingus in the middle of the trigger and be done with it.

  • Big Daddy

    No modern firearm should discharge when dropped. Yes it’s that simple. No excuse and I cannot believe they did not test it or did they? In fact we all saw the excerpt from the manual warning about it. I never knew that and I guarantee that the majority of people who bought one never read the manual.

    Like I said you can throw it around (figuratively) and look at it from every way possible. But the fact is it’s 2017 and no modern firearm should do this. There is a major design flaw that was never fixed. I think more will come out about it and a lot of gun stores are pulling them. In these days of litigation this is a lawsuit away from giving SIG a major financial loss.

    I have read some of the comments and there is a troll i hope was removed. But some of the comments are just plain ridiculous.

  • Daniel F. Melton

    Nobody ever accidentally drops his handgun? I’ll stick with my 1911s. Locked and cocked, ya can hammer nails with ’em safely.

  • mazkact

    For defensive carry I only use double action or double on first shot handguns, this is why.

  • Iblis

    Soooo…..the solution would be to be a Glock type trigger on it to keep it safe when dropped. Just get a Glock

  • Escala Coco

    I dropped my Sig on the concrete driveway. It landed on the rear plate and beaver tail. It did not go off.

  • Mark Kottka

    Would have thought the “official drop test,” included such a drop. Concur, Sig should be proactive in correcting the issue. Those who carry the pistol into harm’s way should be “what if’ing” the majority of the time; don’t need the additional “what if.”

  • Matt

    Nein! Pistole ist gut!

  • Kodi

    I’m not on the Sig P230 bandwagon yet.