Steve Dittner of Wolf Performance ammo had this in his pocket at the NRA Show in Atlanta last April. Unfortunately he did not have it on him when I found out about it and missed out on seeing it the last day at NRA. Steve sent this single round to me. Wolf Performance Ammo will be importing 9x39mm. Most of the 9x39mm rounds are armor piercing and not legal for importation into the U.S. There isn’t a lot of information about Wolf’s version of 9x39mm but I was told it will be a FMJ lead projectile. No information on grain weight but hopefully they stick to the original design which is a sub sonic round with a decent amount of mass in the projectile.

Here is a comparison. L-R: Sig Sauer .300blk 220gr, Tulammo 7.62x39mm, and the WPA 9x39mm

Here is a hint into what Wolf has planned. They are looking into making AR-15 upper receivers chambered in 9x39mm. The cartridge does fit in an AR15 magazine.

According to fellow writer, Hrachya, this is a commerical 9x39mm cartridge made by the Klimovsk Ammunition Plant. The “14” is the year it was manufactured. So this cartridge was made in 2014.





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  • Dan

    Can I chamber this in my S&W 5.45×39 AR-15?

    • No.

      • Jared Vynn

        So no 300 blk in the 223 chamber kabooms? Cool.

        • Dan

          Kabooms work better with steel core ammo. It can’t be squozen down the barrel like 300blk.

          • mazkact

            “squozen” extra points for wordsmithing.

      • Dan

        Pretty please? What if I jam it closed real hard and push the bullet back in the case?

      • Dan

        Basically I am trolling the AAC cartridge designers who couldn’t do better than a bunch of drunk Ivans at foreseeing cartridge kaboom compatibility.

    • Flounder

      LOL not a chance dude. It is going to be twice as wide… and longer.

  • Henry C

    Now I need to find the chamber specs sheet and a chamber reamer…

  • Scott Tx

    is it cheaper than 300 blackout? ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Phillip Cooper

      No, but it blows barrels up AND causes feeding issues in AR mags.

      • Jared Vynn

        Sauce?

        • Flounder

          Phillip is too salty for any sauce!

          • Gary Kirk

            If he’s that salty, throw some old bay and pickling spice on him.. Then he could go with cocktail sauce..

        • Phillip Cooper

          Bernaisse, please.

      • JoelM

        No? Why not? Wolf manages to sell steel case 6.5 Grendel for 25cpr. I can’t imagine this being any more. There is NO commercially loaded .300 BLK for under 40cpr. Reloading excluded because you can reload both of these for equally as cheap.

      • Xtorin O’hern

        what do you mean it blows up barrels?

        • Phillip Cooper

          I was referring to what’s sure to happen when, not if, this is chambered in a 7.62X39 rifle.. similarly to 300BLK.

          • Xtorin O’hern

            that’s physically impossible… the only reason the .300 blackout can chamber in a 5.56 chamber is because the case has been shortened, the 9×39 has not been shortened.

          • Xtorin O’hern

            that’s physically impossible dude, the only reason the .300 blackout can fit in a 5.56 chamber is because the case has been shortened, this case has not been shortened, just necked up

      • Samuel Millwright

        No, but YOU are an idiot, and ALWAYS wrong…

        • Phillip Cooper

          Hmm. I love you too. Why haven’t you called lately?

    • Flounder

      Ever even seen steel cased 300blk? It should be much cheaper. Maybe… It is hilariously cheaper to produce in russia, but getting it here, in quantity… Who knows.

  • Rick O’Shay

    What firearms are associated with this round?

    • Audie Bakerson

      AS Val, VSS Vintorez, various other spec ops that probably don’t total 100,000 between every single firearm chambered in it.

      • JumpIf NotZero

        Pretty much this, some sleek af SV-98 you saw in a picture once, they only made one.

        All the VSS’s ever made, could probably fit neatly in your garage.

        • Giolli Joker

          That would make for a gorgeous and lucrative garage, I’d say.

          • Gary Kirk

            Gorgeous and lucrative, Yes, but it would still smell like cosmoline for ever.. Not that that’s necessarily a bad thing.. My basement pretty much has an airborne odor of CLP at all times..

        • Sermon 7.62

          VSS’s are widespread in Russia. There are lots of them.

    • wetcorps

      VSS Vintorez suppressed “sniper rifle”, OTS 14 Groza (some kind of bullpup AKSu), AS VAL suppressed assault rifle, Vikr SMG, 9A91 SMG and a few other.
      Mostly cool Russian special forces weapons you’ll never have.

      • Mmmtacos

        There was an effort a few years back by a handful of guys that were trying to reverse engineer the VSS, I think they were going to use a fake can but still SBR it. I don’t recall how far they got, I think it was just some avid fans, but they were trying to figure out how to make 9×39…

        • wetcorps

          Last time I checked the main guy was injured and couldn’t really work anymore. It’s been dead for a while.

          It was a cool project but you can only get so far with a few guys doing it in their spare time.

        • iksnilol

          It’s literally a 7.62×39 necked up to 9.3mm. it isn’t really that complicated. US version was called .358 Gremlin IIRC.

        • Wow!

          Lots of guys did it over the past decades, a few were documented on Homegunsmith or weaponsguild I think. I did one myself using parts kit (which yes, isn’t exact to the original striker fired, but close enough for my purposes of showing off my capabilities to prospective customers)

      • int19h

        Slight correction: it’s Vikhr, not Vikr.

      • Sermon 7.62

        The reason it has become available to us is that all these rifles are no longer being made. There is even a civilian VSS on the market in Russia, and this is the civilian ammo we are talking about.

        Now these rifles and caliber are in the process of replacement by the VKS sniper rifle and ASh-12 assault rifle in 12.7ร—55mm.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ddfae6c8f4f6ba8411f1e6986a1e760a23c007b22ec6b104a62d69a983acbc02.jpg

        • Maxim Popenker

          that’s not true. VSS and AS are still being made, with new versions coming out (fitted with railed forends and new scopes). Also, there’s SR-3M, 9A-91 and some new entrants which, hopefully, will be presented this August
          VKS and ASh-12 are entirely different league, that is, those are “FSB special” guns while 9×39 guns are widely used by MVD (Special Police units, SWAT-type), FSB, and Military (Recon and Spetsnaz)

          • Sermon 7.62

            VSS used to be “FSB special” too.
            In the future VKS should replace VSS.

          • Maxim Popenker

            dare to share your sources on that?
            because I’m pretty positive that it should not, and most certainly would not.

          • Sermon 7.62

            I’m as much positive that it should.

          • Maxim Popenker

            Absolutely not, because VSS and VKS are two different classes of firearms, much like, say, a 7.62mm semi-auto DMR is very differnt from .338LM or .50BMG bolt action.
            Both have its niches, but in maneuver warfare, MOUT and CQB scenarios (like, say, operation in woods agains small groups of terrorists) VKS is absolutely unable to replace VSS.
            VKS is only useful for very special scenarios where you have to make few accurate and quiet shots at ranges beyond 250-300 meters.
            At ranges of 300 meters or less VSS owns the field, woods and streets.

          • Sermon 7.62

            At ranges of 300 meters or less AK owns the strets. VSS is good for assassinations, but not good enough as a SF rifle.

          • Maxim Popenker

            oh, looks like we have an expert here. pity that no one in Russian SF and small arms development communities has your level of expertise https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/262002a740470ce385afd3b076a94b121a60ae21bdd5903c769ba9265ec163f6.jpg

          • Sermon 7.62

            You look good on this photo.

          • Ninoslav Trifunovic

            Hey Maxim, do you know anything about suppressors on new VSS and AS versions? Are they planing to use old type or new one?

    • noob

      In the future if wolf comes good on that ar-15 upper i hope they use an oversized bolt head like the Mutant does for regular 7.62×39

      • Rick O’Shay

        If I’m understanding the round correctly, it would actually use the same bolt head that gets used for 7.62×39.

      • RazorHawk

        And please, no stupid forward assist. And make it billet.

  • Jared Vynn

    I’m gonna hazard a guess at 250 gr for the bullet.

    • Destro Yakisoba

      It may weigh more without the steel penetrator. SP-6Uch (ะกะŸ-6ะฃั‡) Training round. I can’t find a weight.

    • Wow!

      I made a 9×39 using cast bullets which ended up 290 grains. The FMJ being the most common round but as Destro says, the steel penetrator versions will probably as light as you guess.

  • Vhyrus

    If it won’t chamber in a .223 chamber then I am down.

    • Jared Vynn

      I don’t think it can as it is based off the 7.62×39.

    • JumpIf NotZero

      Its the same but opposite problem as 223/300 but now to 7.62×39. No, this won’t blow up your AR (or be cost effective, or common, or even a really good idea) but… you could mess up some AKs by using the wrong ammo.

      • JoelM

        The case is not shortened from the parent case and so it won’t chamber fully even if the bullet sets back. If the .300BLK was based on a full length .223 case it wouldn’t be able to chamber in a .223 chamber either, but the .300 is based on a .223 case that’s been shortened enough that the case will fit in a .223 chamber, and a cartridge will chamber if the bullet sets back far enough to allow it.

        • Flounder

          You beat me to it. Except… They shortened it for reliable function with extremely long bullets in the AR magazine right?

          Also, wasn’t the capacity taken into consideration? They wanted 30rds in their 30rd magazines. The 9×39 won’t even be close to matching the capacity. I suspect it will be very much like the 6.5 grendal though. With only a four or five round reduction, or about 10% less capacity.

      • Hrachya H

        As JoelM said, 9x39mm won’t chamber in 7.92x39mm chambers …just like any necked up cartridge won’t fit its parent case chamber

        • Flounder

          You should rephrase that… Because you are saying 300blk won’t chamber in 556… which it will, although, only once.

          The reason 9×39 won’t chamber in 7.62×39 is that they use the same case, but blown out at the sides and necked up. It is larger or equal in every dimension.

          300blk chambers in 556 because the case is the same, but shorter, without a significant blowing out of the sides. It is the same size or smaller in almost every dimension.

          The technical reason here is that 7.62×39 has a heavy taper that is blown out so much when necked up to 9×39 that it is almost a straight walled case at that point. Meaning the case has gained a tremendous amount of internal volume, and external volume. The reverse is true of 556 brass which is cut down decreasing the internal and external volumes.

          • Parent case of .300 Whisper/Blackout is .221 Fireball.

          • iksnilol

            What happens if you get a .221 fireball in a .223 or .300 blk chamber?

          • Hrachya H

            @disqus_IxDFpivhkj:disqus I am not saying .300 blk won’t chamber in 5.56, I am saying “any necked up cartridge won’t fit its parent case chamber”. The .300 BLK is NOT a necked up 5.56.

      • Incorrect. 9×39 cannot chamber in a 7.62×39, nor can a 7.62x39mm headspace in a 9x39mm.

        The Russians aren’t stupid.

        • James Kachman

          …would you happen to be implying something there, Nathaniel? ๐Ÿ™‚

          • That SAAMI did not at all understand the AR market when they OK’d .300 Blackout? Yes, yes I am saying that.

          • @nathaniel_f:disqus How would you have done it? Lengthened neck?

        • jonp

          Explain Communism

        • Amplified Heat

          Nope, won’t fit. Soul brotha too beau-coup.

        • Wow!

          If people chamber a x35 round in your 5.56, they deserve to break their weapon. The rounds look nothing alike that even if they can fit, next to no one is incompetent enough to make that mistake. I mean, a 45 acp can fit into a 308/30-06 chamber but you dont hear that happening with any frequency.

      • supergun

        Couldn’t you do that with any ammo or gun?

      • Deplorable Shocked Amazed

        Yep…
        “But it fit the mag and it said something x39 on the box.”

    • Flounder

      LOL try and get a 7.62×39 in your .223. it won’t even be close. and 9×39 is wayyy too big. Even the case head is too big for the bolt to close.

    • supergun

      223 and 308 the best ever.

  • Michael Leighton Smith

    Yes please! Bring in the subsonic variety and we will make beautiful music together!

    Mike Smith/AAC
    SilentMike

    • noob

      Very quiet beautiful music

    • iksnilol

      But music is noise… and your products are made to remove as much noise as possible.

  • John

    Any yet another stumpy, frumpy looking round for the modern rifle. Where is the majesty of the .308 or the .30-06, tall and rocket looking. Even the .223 looks like a little kid whose butt got stuck in a smoke stack. In today’s world it’s looks that count, not ballistics!

    • herop derpo

      9×39 was developed in the 1980s by the soviets for the VSS rifle, as they needed a subsonic round for suppressed semi-automatic rifles used by spetsnaz forces and was never originally made for commercial production. It’s been almost 40 years and only now do they have commercial products in the eastern block. Your whole comment is ignorant and based in fallacy.

      • John

        I’m sorry to have offended your delicate balance of logic and the complete inability to understand humor. But thank you for the verbose and completely unnecessary reply!

        • JoelM

          You’re bad at comedy and you should feel bad.

          • supergun

            Actually, he could make a living at making fun of guns. He has got your attention.

          • JoelM

            If Amy Schumer can do it…

          • supergun

            She would be a good waitress.

          • gabriel brack

            Not if her lady bits smell the way she claims they do.

          • supergun

            UROK!

        • supergun

          That was what I was thinking. Some people are too serious in this silly world.

        • Bobby McKellar

          There are a lot of these types here! LOL! LOTS of “trollistically oriented” types who appear to have about as much knowledge as a carrot.

      • Alex

        I’ll take sarcasm and falling for it for $100, Alex

        • herop derpo

          >falling for the copy pasta

        • Liberal Juggalo supremacist

          Old farts arguing about bullets. Lol

          • supergun

            Glad you could join, even if you are a brain washed “______”.

      • Liberal Juggalo supremacist

        The Russian 300 blackout.

        • 360_AD

          Which would be 7.62×39.

        • supergun

          You should try out as a comedian.

      • supergun

        It still won’t sell.

        • Oh yes indeed it will. If you knew the whole story you would agree.

          • supergun

            The AK bullet sells so much cheaper, that it will crowd out this bullet. That is the reason the 300 which is an excellent bullet did not take off. The AK is not king for a reason.

          • Matt Collins

            I agree that the 9×39 will not catch on much in the U.S., certainly not in the current climate of gun & ammo glut going on across the entire spectrum. The 9×39’s problem will be lack of projectile variation. But on what planet did the 300 blackout not take off? The caliber is loaded by around 150 FFL-06’s, and there are at least 45 headstamps for this caliber, with every single major global commercial manufacturer other than the Russians & PMC loading it now. .300 BLK is easily one of the top 10 rifle calibers for American consumers as of early 2016

          • Troy Lund

            Subsonic 300 BLK gives the power ~.45 ACP. 9×39 carries much more ft Lbs energy and still fits in AR mags. I like the concept in suppressed AR (or 458 SOCOM or 50 Beowolf).

          • Matt Collins

            I agree with you in principal that the 9×39 has superior ballistics relative to the .300 BLK, but when there is only one or two manufacturers (both Russian), and the projectile variation will probably be like 3 or maybe 4 different types…. meh..

          • supergun

            I agree with you. Also, the 300 is a fine caliber. I have that one. I believe when we had the gun rush during the obama regime, the 300 was like the red head step child. Also, the bullet is a little high. If it was to come down near the AK 47, we would see the 300 take off.

          • Ben Pottinger

            Wait, the 300blk didn’t take off? lol. If you say so..

          • supergun

            I love the 300 Black out. I like it over the AK 47. And it has done fairly well over the past few years. It just has not sold like others because of a few reason. If a person is buying an AR 15, most likely that choice will be the AR 15 223/5.56 over the 308 or 300; even the AK. The bullets are still in the same range of the 308, but if they were in the range of the AK 47 then we probably see more acceptance of the great caliber.

          • Ben Pottinger

            Your moving the target. First it “wasn’t successful”, now it’s “done fairly well”.

            Your also (confusingly) naming the ammo with its primary firearms name and the next your calling it by its diameter.

            Defining “success” as the ammo being the same price as 5.56 or 7
            62×39 surplus is silly. Those are far and away the most produced rounds on the planet! X39 is produced for Russia and a number of other militaries and 5.56 is produced for and by almost every Nato nation on the planet!! 762×51 used to be reasonably cheap a decade or two ago for the same reasons. It’s only just now dropping in price due to civilian demand.

            A big part of the cost of 300blk at the moment is its using heavy long range 308 bullets which are expensive. Once we see more bullet makers making their own lower cost bullets for the round prices should go down. I’m already seeing prices as low as .28-.34c a round for remanufactured ammo which is great for practice and “plinking”.

    • wetcorps
      • iksnilol

        They need to make crayon tipped ammo.

        • Ebby123
          • iksnilol

            Is that real or is it just the colors? Cause I’d like to make crayon drawings with my bullets before putting them in my enemies, then leave the drawings on the crime scene. Would be a hella good trademark.

          • Amplified Heat

            It’s powder coating. Folks have discovered that powder coat is strong enough to function as a combination lubricant/jacket material for cast lead bullets at low to mid pressures (I think up to non-magnum rifle levels, actually). Cheaper, cleaner, easier to do…basically superior to lube, gas checks, or bullet plating in every way. Superior to actual jacketing when in comes to cheap plinking ammo, in my opinion. Only downside, is that because it is externally applied, it induces irregularities that limit accuracy, even though the bullet is resized after coating to final diameter.

          • iksnilol

            Just polish it away, it’ll buff right out ๐Ÿ˜‰

            I was lowkey hoping for actual crayon bullets. Powder coating feels like old news to me. It’s cool tho.

          • Xtorin O’hern

            one could pour crayon wax into bullet mold, powder coat it, and the result would probably be the worlds most deadly paintball marker

    • Jim David

      Yeah I like my rounds long, thick, throbbing, and veiny too.

    • tarnishedcopper

      I agree. Don’t we have enough strange calibers floating around? What’s wrong with the 7.62×39? I do agree about the .30-06 and .308. If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it!! I never bought a .40 cal pistol either…..

      • Troy Lund

        All are supersonic and are therefore not properly suppressable.

  • RavishedBoy

    250 grs subsonic… it has performace very close to a .45acp. A bit disappointing for a rifle round. I know it has to be subsonic, but then just use a pistol round.

    • JoelM

      This comparison comes up a lot, but the very high ballistic coefficient compared to the .45ACP allows drastically better retained velocity and energy out to the max effective range (which is about 150m thanks to the bullet drop). Where a .45ACP loses a drastic amount of energy at that range, the 9×39 (and the .300 Blackout) still have very nearly what they did at the muzzle.

      • Al Wise

        Rate of spin also comes into play, improving accuracy over the .45 ACP.

      • Sermon 7.62

        259 gr, and the range is 400 m.

      • iksnilol

        Forget about it. People with a that basic understanding of ballistics aren’t really open to understanding stuff like “aerodynamics” and “ballistic coefficent”.

    • Flounder

      You need to remember that steel is a large portion of that weight (if IRC the AP round might be lighter). and steel is much lighter than lead. So the weight is deceptive. ALSO!!!! you need to compare any subsonic loading at 950 fps +/- 50 fps. that is well into the +P+ arena of 45 acp. You are getting a bump in both velocity and weight.

      But you are getting a longer bullet, so much better BC
      a mountain better penetration against armor
      -(45acp is one of the worst rounds for trying to beat actual armor.)
      AND I saved the best for last!
      IT IS RUSSIAN! Jk, but only halfway jk, their alternative was 9mm makarov or their special 9×19 extra hot round downloaded… So this is probably twice as effective.

    • Threethreeight

      Keep in mind, it was designed with an armor piercing projectile in mind to put holes in chechens and other unsavory dudes at pretty close range.

    • DW

      Unlike .45ACP in any load Russian 9×39 penetrates body armor extremely well as well as having better BC.

  • jp

    If this is imported by wolf it will be a 300blk equivalent that is cheap and more affective.

    It is a 762×39 case necked up to take a 9mm 260gr bullet.

    • Wow!

      9×39 isn’t much more effective (at least not enough to be significant) compared to x35. A 290 grain pill going at subsonic velocities is about the same as a 230 grain bullet going at the same speed.

      • jp

        If you are referring to 45acp, the sectional density of this bullet it much better. It is more affective and it will retain its velocity at several hundred yards where as 45 will not.

        Either way, it would ideally be a cheap alternative to 300blk and a cool caliber to play with considering that generally in the past it’s just been a spetsnaz thing.

        • Wow!

          I was referring to how x35 subsonic is terminally the same as 9×39. The x35 using a 220-230 grain bullet in subsonic and the 9×39 using somewhere around a 290 grain bullet (at least that is my cast bullet weight judging from the ogive extracted from pictures of the original 9×39 rounds).

          At first I was going to contest you on the 9×39 being cheaper but I keep forgeting not everyone is a reloader, and fewer cast bullets. For me, x35 is the cheapest rifle cartridge I shoot being 5 cents for subsonic and 10 cents for supersonics. 9×39 is about 7 cents for me to reload.

  • Rimfire

    And here I thought the 6.5 and 6 mm was the next big thing, darn, wrong again

    • Xtorin O’hern

      i mean if the ammo is made widely available i would very happily have 6.5 grendel replace my 5.56 and 9x39mm replace my .300blackout

  • Klaus Von Schmitto

    Hmmm. Jack up the velocity, load it up with Acme 150gr SWC bullets, and have another pig shooting option in the AR platform.

  • Gary Kirk

    And now the AK guys can start pulling their own version of the 300 bo/223 shenanigans

    • JoelM

      No, it’s not possible with this cartridge because it hasn’t been shortened from the parent case like the blackout has been.

      • Gary Kirk

        Believe me brother.. Where there’s a trailer, there’s a way..

        • Disarmed in CA

          Hold my beer…

          • Gary Kirk

            And watch this $#!+.. Most commonly uttered phrase before a hospital visit in the S.E. U.S.

      • wetcorps

        9×39 AKs exist in Russia but I believe the mags are proprietary.

    • Amplified Heat

      I suspect Russian redniks would be even more effective at cramming the wrong ammo into a gun than our rednecks, yet it hasn’t been an issue over there. I’m not worried.

  • Xtorin O’hern

    i wonder what kinda velocity this round gets from a 16 or even 24 inch barrel? could be quite a little thumper from longer barrels

    • JoelM

      It will still be subsonic. It’s designed to be from any length barrel.

      • Xtorin O’hern

        i question that. the lowest velocity number i can find for the 9×39 is 918 fps and the highest i can find is 1049 fps, so yes technically it is designed to be subsonic from any barrel length*

        *subsonic from any of the barrel lengths used by the Russian Military for this caliber, which tops out at the 9.4 inch barrel of the OTs-14 Groza.

        • iksnilol

          Also depends on velocity. I think you could get a bit of velocity with a slow powder and a long barrel.

          • Amplified Heat

            Entirely possible it & the current platforms are designed around moderate pressures like the other x39 as well. If bumped to higher levels via larger volume of that slower powder, the case volume certainly seems to be there for super sonics. Can always make the bullets lighter via steel-cores, solid copper construction, or saboted, but those all kind of defeat the purpose since 7.62×39 would work just as well.

      • Wow!

        The only reason it is subsonic is because the weapons it is fired from have ports close to the chamber end of the barrel. Remove those ports and its potential is unlocked like any blackout cartridge. I think a supersonic 9×39 would be close to a 357 MAX wildcat.

    • Flounder

      You would have to handload it to be supersonic. and with the massive amount of case volume… Probably something like 1400 fps +/- 200 fps (i am just guessing). So a nice perfomance bump. But the 458 socom still wins.

  • blame the stranger

    Mini-30

  • blame the stranger

    mini-30 carbine

  • Destro Yakisoba

    Ok ammo is coming. Time to start making the Vikr state side……… https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/08421f5f42d584354262b1f9f1a25f105dc5dd15f01b625321b774ba077485f2.jpg

    • Joseph Anthony

      Looks good

    • Markius Fox

      And VSS Vintorez/AS Val!

  • Reef Blastbody

    Hoooraaaay! If/when the HPA passes, we can build semi-auto VSS Vintorez.

    • Amplified Heat

      That’s kind of what the Honey Badger already was/is. We also see SBRs normalized before integral suppression becomes normal.

    • Wow!

      You can still build one today, just without the baffle stack and a pinned or 16″ barrel.

  • Ray Peterson III

    ARs? Shoot make this in AKs & a CZ527 threaded for a 9mm can!

    • wetcorps

      An integrally suppressed CZ527 in 9×39 would be pure sex.

      • iksnilol

        VZ58, the micro version. Would be two stamp (SBR and suppressor since you could integrally suppress it well and wind up with a 12 inch barrel+suppressor assembly), but would be sexay.

        • DW

          Use a “stabilizing brace” and wait long enough for a no-stamp gun ๐Ÿ™‚

          • iksnilol

            Why the quotes? They’re a legitimate thing.

          • DW

            Come on you know what we actually do with those

          • iksnilol

            They were made with a legitimate purpose and many use it for that. Just because of you wannabe criminals it doesn’t mean it has no legitimate use.

            Should I put medical syringes in quotes? I mean, I’m sure plenty of drug addicts use them in a way that’s not intended.

  • gunsandrockets

    Is that 9mm case more straight walled than the parent 7.62x39mm?

    Hmm…

    • Yes. Much less aggressive taper.

    • Marcus D.

      Da, Ees like Russkiy version of Amerikanski .357 Magnum, only slow and heavy, hits like a babushka with moshna, nyet?

  • LazyReader
    • There will be one. Think about it a minute. Would a company import a round that there are no weapons available to shoot it? Or perhaps will be a weapon to shoot it. It only makes sense.

      • Blaine

        I agree with that, but I remember Academy used to have Fiocchi 4.6x30mm ammo. I can only think of one gun, the HK MP7, that is chambered in that cartridge.

        • clampdown

          My local Academy always has 5.7 and 4.6 on the shelves in dusty, over handled boxes due to folks like myself wanting to hold one of these “exotic” rounds.

      • Wow!

        Agreed. Several people have made (myself included) AS VAL and VSS vintorez clones using AK parts kits (when they were still abundant and cheap). I got my own set of 9×39 dies I made based on photos of the round. Even if imports don’t happen it is far from impossible for domestically produced 9×39 weapons to fill the gap. That said, my interest of 9×39 dropped once 7.62×35 became a thing.

      • Bobby McKellar

        “THINKING” is a big word for some of these geniuses! LMAO!

    • Baineblade

      If you missed it in the article, Wolf said they were looking to make an AR-15 Upper chambered in 9×39. So taking a shot in the dark…Probably a 5-700.00 Upper chambered in 9×39 for standard pattern lowers and You’re all set. I mean let’s face it, the AR-15 is one of the most prolific firearms in the U.S. Market today. Hell even Savage Arms got into the AR race (And they’ve built one hell of a rifle I’m picking up soon) with their MSR-10/15 releases in January. I’m hoping to pick up the 15 Recon as that has everything I want at an affordable price tag.

  • RazorHawk

    Wow, this is a game changer!!!

  • Seems kinda silly for the US commercial market, being that:
    -there are no 9×39 weapons in the US
    -they will not be importing the dank af steel core AP rounds even though there are no pistols chambered in 9×39
    -9×39 offers only minimal subsonic improvement over .300 blk (from .45 acp power to .45 acp +p power, such wow) and has no provision for supersonic loads
    -here are no existing expanding projectiles for 9×39, preventing its modest power gains being used toward any terminal performance benefit.

    From a commercial standpoint, selling steel case .300 blackout subsonics would have made way, way more sense.

    • iksnilol

      Uhm… for the first, ballistic coefficent and earodynamics apply to subsonic bullets (AKA why 300 BLK is waaay better than .45 acp despite similar weight and velocity).

      Secondly, you can use regular old 9.3mm bullets in 9×39 if you handload. And I can bet that there exists expanding 9.3mm bullets considering that’s a caliber that’s been used for hunting for over a century.

      Also, you can just plop in a 9×39 barrel in any 7.62×39 mechanism and with the different mags you’ve got a 9×39 gun. What I’m saying is that it won’t be difficult to make 9×39 guns. Since the only new component needed is the barrels (for mags you can use 5.56 mags).

      • The existing 9.3mm have terrible BCs compared to 7.62mm.

        Nosler 7.62mm 210gr Accubond = .730 G1 BC, SD = 0.316
        Noser 9.3mm 250gr Accubond = .494 G1 BC, SD = 0.267

        So at the muzzle 9.3 has 100ft/lbs more energy, and at 300 yards, it has 47ft/lbs more energy, but 3″ more drop. Not exactly mindblowing performance gains.

        Meanwhile, all of the 9.3mm bullets are designed for big game hunting, and none of the projectiles are designed to expand below 1800fps. And even if they were, there is no source for 9×39 brass, so you would need to pull down steel case and make a mexican match subsonic.

        Without the steel core AP rounds, 9×39 offers no benefit over .300 BLK while introducing a variety of disadvantages. This is a silly product to bring to market.

        • iksnilol

          You do know that brass cased 7.62×39 exists. And if you neck it up, MADNESS ENSUES, YOU CAN LOAD A 9.3MM BULLET IN IT!

          Also, compare the BC of a 9×39 to the bc of a .45 acp.

          • 7.62×39 reloading brass costs $0.32-$0.5 per piece, as much as loaded .300blk here in the US.

            And as previously mentioned, the existing 9.3mm bullets will not expand at subsonic velocity – rendering them useless for hunting or combat.

            The only cool thing about 9×39 is the AP steel core. Without it, its stupid.

            Other then making a slightly louder ‘ping’ against steel targets, 9×39 offers no advantage over .300 blk while introducing many disadvantages. It’s a silly, pointless product to introduce to the US market.

          • iksnilol

            Y’all buy brass? Just buy cheap brass cased ammo, run through it and save its brass.

          • There’s guys running 6″ .300blks, and the Honey Badger is a 7″.

            Reloadable 7.62×39 costs $0.5 a shot; factory made reloadable S&B .300 blk subsonic can be had for $0.55.

            As previously stated, barring the importation of Russian subsonic sniper rifles or the importation of 9×39 AP, there is no plus and many minuses to 9×39 vs. 300blk in the US market.

          • iksnilol

            0.5 per shot ?

            That’s a bit expensive from what I’ve seen. I’ve gotten it cheaper and in Norway.

          • Thats in bulk 1000rd cases here as well. The use of brass case 7.62×39 is extremely rare in the US; 99.9% of x39 sold in the US is likely steel cased. Even Hornady’s premium VMAX defensive loads are steel case.

            And given that the 7.62×39 was designed for steel case, this is not really a surprise.

          • Wow!

            Gunbroker occasionally has x39 brass for 20 cents each but you are right, the cheapest boxer brass x39 is generally Fiochhi and it runs at 50 cents a shot. No where near the cheap price of 5.56 brass which is as little as 5 cents as is.

      • Wow!

        I made an 9×39 gun years ago using ak parts and cast bullets and while it dos work, Mark is right that the performance is basically x35 and the US is already filled with x35 guns.

        However, I wouldn’t be opposed to 9×39 guns being made commercially for the novelty. It still definitely seems like it will occupy as niche of a market as 5.7×28.

    • No 9×39 weapons in the US? Well just wait a little while:-)

  • DW

    VZ58 chambered in this with a can is the closest thing to a VSS, and might actually be “better” with ergos and LRBHO.

    • iksnilol

      Get the micro version with the 8 inch barrel and then integrally suppress it with a VSS like stock… and it’d be a pretty convincing mockup.

      • Amplified Heat

        Very mechanically accurate apart from the rotating bolt, too

      • DW

        That’s what I thought, except the thumbhole stock can’t become QD like the one on the VSS.

  • Destro Yakisoba

    A supersonic loading of the 9×39 might actually be kinda cool out of a 16in barrel or shorter. The geometries are off but heres an idea. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2ad646e998c130128457346488957d34e6e4b808a62c5917c2038eae02cbea7a.jpg

  • Some Rabbit

    If all they wanted a was big slow bullet with the trajectory of a mortar why not go with the .45 ACP and give all the 1911 fanboys a woodie? Because everyone knows a 9mm anything is still just a mouse gun.

  • Wetcoaster

    I’ve noticed that the published specs on 9 x 39 look an awful lot like a wildcatter stuck one of the 9.3mm bullets popular with European hunters into a necked up 7.62 x 39 case.

    • Xtorin O’hern

      thats… exactly what it is

      • Wetcoaster

        I guess once in a while things are exactly what they appear to be

  • Amplified Heat

    “You look so pitiful, 300 Blackout, and you are…”

  • Hrachya H

    Found these pictures in my files. Both of them are from Russian sources. One shows sectioned 9x39mm cartridges and the second one is the drawing of that cartridge. I am not sure though how accurate that drawing is https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cfc5c853cf758b028ea5f2ad26ed40038b5453861568114f3658eec9cf07de0c.jpg ….can’t recall the exact source. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2afa8a38201601cf7f7baee4f275c6c2bc48b539a21d1248200bb3f3de018a7f.jpg

    • Xtorin O’hern

      sooo… if our civi round we’re looking at getting is the one on the far left and weighs 259 grains like i suspect… how heavy is that MONSTER slug on the far right???

      • Hrachya H

        The far left one (SP-5) has an 248 grain bullet and the far right one (PAB-9) is not too heavier – 262 grains. Although it is longer, it has a steel core which keeps the weight down.

        • Xtorin O’hern

          that’s interesting and kind of disappointing… i was hoping for some monstrous like 405 grain bullet that punts out the barrel at like 750fps…

          • Nicholas C

            If it was solid lead, then yeah it would be much heavier.

          • Troy Lund

            You can buy .458 SOCOM and .50 Beuwolf in AR platforms that use AR mags and put out good Ft. Lbs of energy subsonic.

  • JSIII

    If the HUSH act passes this could be really fun. I imagine sub-sonic loads will be more than enough to take down most North American game.

  • Quotron

    Is there some reason why availability of this ammo is completely reliant upon importation by the Russians? There are a lot of ammo manufacturers in the US, is it not possible for one of them to produce it?

    • Nicholas C

      I imagine it would take a bit of time for someone to tool up to resize the steel cases and make the projectiles?

  • nova3930

    So the Ruskie version of 300BLK?

  • CaptainGeneral

    From the shape and tone of most comments and replies in this column, this crowd is a pretty rough group. That being said, I’d really like to know if SAAMI has specs for the round. This is obviously the precursor for the next question: if those specs are followed, could a reamer be made and brass obtained (or made) for the round. It looks like a fun cartridge to play around with. Thanks.

  • Wow!

    I’m still waiting for Wolf PVS-7 Clones. Even though the design is way outdated, they hold sentimental charm to me.

  • Sal

    I recently bought some 9mm wolf ammo & was told that I couldn’t use it at the range because the bullets were steel & there was a high risk of ricochet. I don’t see how it could be commercially successful. Also steel bullets are more likely to wear out a firearm that isn’t made specifically for it. I believe I just answered my own question about the rifle durability.

  • Rick

    I have literally been waiting for years for someone to start importing this round. About time! Good job Wolf! First rule, NO ONE MAKE A HANDGUN! I don’t want any of that “well its a handgun caliber so you cant have AP” bs.

    • Some idiot will make a handgun so he can brace it and have an NFA-free SBR. Guar-un-effing-teed.

  • Reginald Pettifogger

    Aren’t there trade restrictions in-place dealing with Russian arms/ammo?

    • Ammo will come in, but no AP. The guns will be built here (whether from “kits” or from the ground-up as domestic products): see the post below by Destro Yakisoba.

  • Take it with a grain of salt, because I’ve not yet personally bought any ammo from the Klimovsk plant. But I’ve seen some horrible feedback about their ammunition and its QA, geometry, defects, grouping etc. on the Russian forums. There are many voices advising to never buy Klimovsk ammo, many complaints (including from range officers) about Klimovsk rounds instantly gumming up the gas system and action with amazing, never-before-seen black gunk that takes forever to clean, and so on.

    I’m saying this because these problems may or may not surface in the export ammo, and may damage the reputation of other Russian ammo or ammo plants. For comparison, the same complainers most often advise to use Barnaul ammo instead. To be honest, I don’t even know what plant makes the general Wolf ammo US shooters use, so again – grain of salt.

  • Vince Black

    What on earth is wrong with Wolf? They are going to import a caliber that there are almost no guns chambered for(in the usa anyway). Get a clue dudes! Bring in what people really want. Cheap steel case 300blk. It would sell by the truck load.

    • Blake

      …did you not bother reading the article? Because it says this right in it: “They are looking into making AR-15 upper receivers chambered in 9x39mm.”

  • Dean Seaman

    I wonder if it will be remembered as “The Russian .35 Remington”?
    I’m thinking performance would be similar.

  • NanoSuitUser059 .

    Hopefully those AR uppers are gas piston. Direct impingement is nasty for suppressed use.

  • Cal S.

    Will it work with 9mm suppressors? ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Bloody Bucket

    Wolf, no 300 BLK? Do you know how much money your missing out on?

  • Applebite

    Quick! Somebody get on the horn with KRISS and see if they can get this chambered for the Vector!