Can Anything Defeat a Level IV Plate Body Armor?

Aside from huge rifles like .50 BMG and the like, that is. NIJ 0101.06 Level IV specifies that the plate must be able to stop .30-06 M2AP at 2,880 fps. I’m case you’re not familiar with M2AP, it is a copper jacketed projectile with a hardened steel core. It was issued during WWII originally as special purpose ammunition, as is typically the case with armor piercing ammo, but eventually replaced M1 .30 caliber FMJ due to its superior performance. Joes loved it because it could get through almost anything and it was quite terminally effective. It’s so good at getting through barriers that armor designed to stop M2AP has been able to stop almost anything else thrown at it. YouTube armor testers such as Buffman R.A.N.G.E. and The Wound Channel have determined that .300 Winmag is no match for level IV and only one really hot .338 RUM load was able to get through an Armour Wear Level IV.

But then Buffman managed to get his hands on a unicorn and a pegasus. M993 AP 7.62x51mm NATO and B32 API 7.62x54mmR ammunition. He tested each against AR500Armor.com’s Level IV plate and RMA’s Level IV plate.

Russian B32 7.62x54mmR API

Russian B32 7.62x54mmR API

American M993 7.62x51mm AP

American M993 7.62x51mm AP

 

Now, right up front, we should point out that neither plate is rated for these threats. Both plates conform to NIJ Level IV standards and they have been shown to stop .30-06 M2AP in other tests, along with many other threats. With that out of the way, there are a couple things to take away from these tests. The first is ‘Merkah, dammit! Damn commies lose, we win. The M993 dramatically outperformed the B32. The second big takeaway here is that, no matter how good armor is, there’s always something that can defeat it. Not only was the M993 capable of perforating both plates, it carried a great deal of energy into the ballistic gel block and passed all the way through. You can also get a really good view of what is happening in this “naked” video of the RMA plate.

What does this mean in practical terms, though? It means that if you wear armor for a living or keep it for emergencies, you should be aware that it isn’t an enchanted aegis. There is ammo that can defeat it. It’s also important to consider that it doesn’t cover your face. Armor is intended to increase your chances of surviving in the event you get shot, but you should probably mainly try not to get shot.





Andrew

Andrew is a combat veteran of OEF and has performed hundreds of ballistic tests for his YouTube channel, The Chopping Block (https://www.youtube.com/user/chopinbloc). He is an avid firearm collector and competitor and lives with his family in Arizona. If you have any questions, you may email him at choppingblocktests@gmail.com


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  • PK

    I love that 7.62×54 API. Any ammo with black and red band, I buy it! But that ammo… I wish I had bought thousands, not just a hundred or so. Incredibly fun to play with, too rare to shoot often.

  • Major Tom

    So 5.56mm in all forms comes up short? No wonder the Army is looking to 7.62 again.

    • Anonymoose

      We’re the only ones wearing Level IV armor, though…

      • PutinBot

        That must be why why DOD is complaining about insurgents buying level IV armor on the Internet.

      • Tony Williams

        The Russian military have their own armour rating system. Their Level 6 is comparable to NIJ Level IV. They also have a Level 6A armour which is designed to keep out tungsten-cored 7.62x54R AP at 10 metres.

        • Major Tom

          Haven’t the Chinese gotten into Level IV equivalents as well? I know they have been rapidly stealing…err developing modern body armor designs.

          • No one

            Yes, I forgot stupid people exist that still knee jerk react and think the Chinese can’t develop anything on their own and clearly they can only steal things.

            Yes, they have Level IV equivalent plating, No it’s not remotely similar in design to US or Russian designs, but clearly that won’t stop the ingenious from thinking It’s a copy of….let me scour the internet to find out what it copied because it MUST be something!

            You’re really on a role today for bad posts.

          • Yeah, no, the government/industry of Chinese fascist bureaucracy has a long and well-documented history of stealing any intellectual property that isn’t nailed down, and of stealing crowbar designs so they can come back later for the stuff that is nailed down. They’ve been using the rest of the world as their R&D department for decades.

          • No one

            Yeah yeah, usual jingoistic rant that doesn’t address my point that Chinese level IV is indigenous.

            Zzzz.

          • Paul Rain

            Lol. Is this supported by Mandarin blog posts? You do realize that we’re not not actually retarded.

          • No one

            Actually….about 99% of the commenters on this site fits that’s that criteria, sorry to break it to you champ.

          • No one

            (Oh, and looking at your comment history, you fit in the 99%, sorry to break it to you buddy.)

          • Stuki Moi

            Does it work well? Is it heavier than “ours”? Harder to make? More expensive?

            Any chance they’ll engage in so called “dumping” of it, aka selling it to regular US schleps for a decent price?

          • No one

            It’s probably heavier, they use AL2O3 with either an armor steel (or THS Laminate in fancier models) shell/backer instead of Boron Carbide with a Spectra backer like ESAPI does.

            Not sure how AL2O3 compares to Boron Carbide ballistically, but Spectra is really, really strong.

          • No one

            Also you can already buy Level IV armor from Chinese websites like Alibaba or others, however, considering these aren’t “mil-spec” per say but rather from countless manufacturers and only some sold are listed under the NIJ standard, with some being on their domestic standards….your mileage may vary.

          • Stuki Moi

            Says a guy who “stole” the ability to write, from whomever dude, somewhere out there in the rest of the world, invented it……

          • Google [chinese ip theft]. Notice there are 1.2 million returns.

          • ARCNA442

            As far as I can tell, the majority of the PLA infantry doesn’t have any armor at all, let alone Level IV. While their elite units have armor, it appears to be mostly older Kevlar.

          • No one

            This hasn’t been true for ages now and I’m far more well versed on topics regarding the military of China than a vast majority of commenters here.

          • ARCNA442

            Could you point me to some information about what the PLA currently issues? The source I was basing that on was from 5 years ago. Good information on the Chinese military is frustratingly hard to find.

          • No one

            The uniforms they issue currently aree Type 07 and one with an unknown designation simply referred to as Type 15, both of these come with an Aramid carrier vest.

            As per Timothy Yan, Chinese level 4 plates as of 2010 were AL203 (Dialuminum Trioxide techically, usually just called Aluminum oxide however.) backed by simple RHA, however newer models indicate the front cover and the witness plate are DHS or THS steel laminate now.

            The fact they’re using DHS or THS means that It’s likely still heavier than ESPAI which uses Spectra as the witness, which, aside from being incredibly strong for it’s weight, is very light in comparison as it’s a high-performance polyethylene.

            If you really want I’ll give you my actual contact info, I don’t really care people knowing who I am on this site (hence the name) but I can show you some things. which I can’t here since posting links on an anonymous account is flat out frustrating.

          • valorius

            I shall fetch you a cookie.

        • No one

          Clearly the only answer is a 6.5mm 24″ barreled bullpup that can magically penetrate level V future armor from 1,200m away using soft steel cored ammo.

        • Anonymoose

          But will it stop an SVDK?

    • James Kachman

      Huh? Where did you see 5.56 being tested here? I’d be interested to see a plate that can stop M995 but can’t stop M993.

      Granted, the Army does want an interim rifle for armor penetration, but that’s a nonsensical idea anyways.

    • No one

      Except for the fact 5.56mm wasn’t even tested here and M993 has a 5.56mm analogue known as M995 which will also penetrate level IV plating, which would be taken you all of 5 seconds to look up.

      The infinite wisdom of Major Tom strikes again!

      • I will ask if I’m allowed to share but I could have potential access to m995 for a future test

        • Chop Block

          Dope.

        • Renato H M de Oliveira

          *fingers crossed*

        • We need this…for science.

        • Kevin Gross

          Just sitting here collecting dust!

    • Uniform223

      what ever you say Butter Bar Tom

    • valorius

      M995 will penetrate lvl IV plate.

      • Depends on plate and distance. a 100m shot was taken on an RMA 1199 Level IV plate (velocity 2929 fps) and it was stopped. If given the opportunity, my test would be at 45′ ๐Ÿ˜€

        • valorius

          Mv of M995 from an M16 is 3300 fps. One of the many reasons i keep saying the switch to the M4 for infantry forces was stupid.

        • valorius

          Is that test anywhere online? I’d definitely like to see it.

          I still think a SS190 AP projectile loaded at 5.56mm pressure in a 5.56mm case would be an epic armor penetrator…especially out of a 20″ barrel.

          • It’s only in written form at this time. I’ll see what I can come of it. This was performed at an actual Ballistic Lab.

            It’s definitely a PE plate penetrator. I’d like to get a III+ PE and see if it would win over M855.

          • valorius

            M855, or M995? Very different animals.

          • Val, sorry the second part was in reference to your ss190 5.56 comment. I have not tested the ss190 5.56 against ceramics but I would believe they’d fail. A poly (PE) plate would be a different story. I need a good III/+ PE plate to test.

          • valorius

            I’d have to think the 31gr SS190 would very easily exceed 4000fps from a 20″ M16A2. That is a whole lot of go fast.

          • These loads I have cooked up are 30gr of either TAC or H335. They hit 3600 fps in a 1:9 Bushmaster 20″ barrel. The issue is there’s not a lot of steel there to do any penetrating on hard armor

          • valorius

            Wow, i’d have thought they’d go a lot faster. Didn’t the old 40 gr federal blitz 223 round go that fast?

  • PutinBot

    Comparing modern AP round and long obsolete inter-war anti-aircraft round that happens to have a reputation for penetrating armor only to find modern round better? Wow. Merkah, f*ck yeah!
    Next time on TFB: WWI tachanka vs Abrams.

    • Chop Block

      Good point. You should email Buffman and let him know that you’re willing to donate modern Russian AP ammo.

      • Ray Peterson III

        The test wasn’t to compare B32 vs M993, for some reason TFB drew that conclusion? Nothing against TFB, I like this blog.

        • Chop Block

          The line about comparing the two was really just supposed to be a tongue in cheek throw away.

          • Correct. It just so happened that I had access to both rounds for testing. Camera time is how you say NOT CHEAP, and very time sensitive for usable light. I wanted the opportunity (per the donors request) to see what B32 looks like on high speed, and to see if it was any better than M2AP. Andrew just couldn’t ignore that there was more than M993 tested in the video. Should I have broken them up? Maybe, but then I was feeling 2 minute video wasn’t long enough for pure awesome ๐Ÿ˜€

    • Do they not have things like “baselines” and “comparative standards” at the SovBot factory? Most people don’t ride horses to work anymore, but we still compare engine performance with horsepower.

      • PutinBot

        >Most people don’t ride horses to work anymore, but we still compare engine performance with horsepower.
        Yeah, but you rarely if ever at all read “stupid evolution and it’s stupid horses! Darwin: 0 Merkah: 1” in a car review.

        • ostiariusalpha

          Such articles have been written and the readers correctly understood them to be humorous.

      • int19h

        The baseline in this case was M2AP. B32 is from the same time period, so its relative performance is not surprising – but comparing those two would be meaningful. Comparing B32 vs M993 is surprising, however.

      • James Watt

        Not I. I don’t care about “horsepower”, I want to know torque curves.
        HP is just Torque x RPM รท 5252 anyways.
        600+ HP looks impressive, but if it’s at 7000+ rpm it’s not doing you jack in almost any situation outside of a track day.
        Give me that “off the line, get up an’ go” everytime.

    • AC97

      Username checks out.

  • ShootCommEverywhere

    M2 AP bullets, pulled and loaded into a hot .300 Win Mag at something like 3200fps, will perforate level IV plates. Also, repeated hits will essentially make the rating moot.

    • Depends on plate. RMA, 1189 plate stopped 3 of 4 m2ap at over 3200 fps. HEsco rebrand could not. engarde Level IV stopped m2ap at 31xx, and m80a1 at 3400+. All depends on the plate material and construction. I’d like to get another 1145/1155 plate from RMA to test against 300 WM

      • valorius

        I wonder how a 5.7mm SS190 ap projectile loaded into a 5.56mm at 4000fps (or more) would do.

        • I’ve hit 3600 fps in a 20″ AR with them. I’ve read they’ll do 3800 fps+, but I’m at case capacity, and with a limited supply, I can’t mess around too much. They are stopped by steel. The interesting part becomes with you introduce PE plates. PE is not the greatest at stopping steel core items. Have a video coming up showing that. What it would do to ceramic, not sure. I can test it though ๐Ÿ˜€ I’m guessing it won’t go through. Not enough mass there.

  • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

    That M993 punched through like .50AE through a book…

    • John McAdam

      I see what you did there. Heh heh heh…

    • Chop Block

      Ooooh. Too soon?

      • Sunshine_Shooter

        No, never too soon to make fun of idiots.

    • valorius

      Nice reference to the biggest idiots in you tube history.

    • David Holman

      too soon

  • Dan

    Those shots are too close to the edge to get a real assessment of the armor. I have done work in (vehicle) armor tests, and edge shots are their own animal. Armor, especially ceramic armor, behaves differently at edges and at joints of hex pucks internally. It’s actually part of formal testing protocol to shoot close to the edge, but that part comes after tests of the main armor body. Usually protocols will also specify second-hit performance measurement within some distance (2 or 3 cm) from the first shot, too. This is an area where normal ceramic armor often falls short. There are some ceramics that are cast into a metal matrix composite that do well on second shots because the metal “solders” to the ceramic, keeping it under compression and containng the rubble.

    Frankly, I call BS on those shots being intentionally placed that close to the edge. Dude had ONE JOB and nearly missed the armor plate with that expensive ammo.

    • Chop Block

      A fair hit, per NIJ standards is anything more than one inch from the edge. These qualify as fair hits. He did this intentionally.

      • I’ll admit the camera man was a little close on edges with the shots but remember my budget dictates I use these plates as much as possible. So I need to spread shots out. There’s no doubt in my mind that a center hit of M993 is going to get stopped by the material used in these plates.

        • Dan

          That makes perfect sense and is a reasonable answer. You are a cool dude. Would be fun to see some close second shots. For instance would a 5.56 get through on a 2nd or 3rd shot that’s only an inch away in the rubble?

          Another thing to consider: I’ve shot ceramic armor plates with 50BMG where ball ammo actually did better than AP ammo. Only thing we could figure was that the ceramic shattered the very hard steel penetrator into small enough pieces that they couldn’t get through the composite backer, but soft steel or lead core stayed coherent long enough that the slug had enough momentum to push the ceramic rubble all the way through the backer and into the witness plate behind the target.

          • Chop Block

            I did a test a couple years ago on The Chopping Block with a Highcom 4SAS7 where I fired four M855 into the exact same spot and all were stopped. Then, in another location on the plate, I shot two M80 into the same spot and the second one got through.

        • valorius

          Is- or isn’t? You’ve come a long way from your backyard armor videos that you used to post on the Elite ammo forums.

          • Sorry yeah, just noticed that. M993 is still going to penetrate even on a COM hit. The RMA plate was naked to show the strike face exists on the entire dimensions of the plate. I would have liked further up, but the ceramic type on these two plates is usually known not to withstand M993

    • noob

      Ah hex pucks! thanks I always wondered what those armor pieces were called!

  • AD

    “you should probably mainly try not to get shot”

    Nonsense! If all the super-realistic modern shooter videogames of the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that the best way to locate an enemy is to let them shoot you, duck behind cover for a few seconds until the wound fully heals, then pop up and gun them down now that you know where they are! After all, as long as you’re looking in their vague direction then sights will automatically snap to the target as soon as you start to aim.

    That’s how it works in real life, right?

    • phuzz

      If that doesn’t work, you can just run over a medkit and it will instantly heal all wounds before disappearing into thin air.

    • Chris Leete

      So I’m supposed to stay in cover for like, 6 months?

    • The Brigadier

      Aah so you play Call of Duty titles as well.

  • Vitor Roma

    I would love to see a test of the 5.45 7N24. But yeah, I know it’s pratically impossible to obtain.

    • Chop Block

      If anyone can, I’ll bet Buffman can do it.

  • Rick O’Shay

    Tangential aside, but is 7.62x54R really more closely equivalent to 7.62×51/.308? I was always under the impression it was a bit hotter, putting it closer to 30-06 in performance. So to read this and see that the M993 outperforms the B32 is surprising to me. I try to learn something new everyday, I guess this is it.

    • The ballistics of .308 and .30-06 are close enough to identical that the distinction is almost entirely moot.

      • Rick O’Shay

        So all three are pretty much same same? Huh. TIL. I’d always been led to believe that modern 30-06 was a more ballistically “powerful” round than .308, and that .308 today would be analogous to WWII-era 30-06. Learning is good.

      • valorius

        In GI loadings they’re identical.

    • PutinBot

      B32 is not an AP round in a modern sense, it’s a HE round scaled down to .30 cal., designed for anti-aircraft use in early 30s.

      • based on the federal definition it’s AP. ๐Ÿ˜€ Steel core and could be loaded into a pistol. Check AP ๐Ÿ˜€

      • Deplorable Shocked Amazed

        HE? … it has high explosive in it?

    • Renato H M de Oliveira

      B32 is a relatively old design. I’m pretty sure that Russia / China do have better stuff today, but it would probably be a lot harder to get some outside those countries than to see pigs flying.
      As for military ballistics, yes the three 7.62s are strikingly simmilar.

  • Fin

    Ohh man, IV8888 fans are gonna cream themselves when they realise who you are ha ha

    • Chop Block

      Huh? Who who is? And who is he/she/xim?

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        When all hope was gone, Barry emerged from the smoke and rubble to save the day.

        I also have no idea what he was talking about.

  • dunhillmc

    iirc, the reason that the US mil rushed development of the XSAPI was because of a Chinese 5.8mm AP round that can penetrate the ESAPI (which is basically L-IV equivalent)

    • No one

      ?

      The development of XSAPI has nothing to do with any supposed 5.8mm AP round (there have been recent images of black tipped 5.8mm, but these surfaced well AFTER the US Army made a call for the XSAPI program) and even if there was at the time it wouldn’t matter because nothing in the Intermediate to “Standard” caliber range is going to do anything at all to ESAPI (which is very high quality Level IV) without a tungsten core and a good amount of velocity behind it. (DU would also work, Uranium is very dangerous to work with in amounts that small however due to it’s highly Pyrophoric nature.)

      Highly doubtful the new images of 5.8mm black tip are tungsten cored considered the logistics of how much men they’d have to even equip with them for that to be viable.

      • valorius

        highly pyrophoric? I was under the impression that something is either pyrophoric, or it’s not.

        • No one

          Certain elements and compounds react more violently or….easier. (alot of it has to do with how little surface area is required for a chunk of the material to burst into flames.)

          Regardless, It would be a massive danger to try and machine U-238 into work that would fit a penetrator for a small arms caliber as the last thing you want in an ammunition plant (or really, many places for that matter) is a flash fire….or two….or dozens while trying to manufacture the things.

  • Everyone knows the Four Rules, but not enough know the Three Rules Of Dogfighting:

    1. Don’t get hit
    2. Hit the other guy
    3. Remember that Rule #1 comes before Rule #2

    • Bulldogdriver

      Based in the American style of warfare, always go asymmetrical! Which is:
      1. Don’t get hit
      2. Don’t try to hit the other guy
      3. Call in an airstrike
      4. Video the impact
      Most hellfire and JDAMs or even 20mm rounds can penetrate any body armor.

      • Michel_T

        Most problems can effectively be dealt with, with the appropriate amount of HE.

        • HMX

          “Any problem on Earth can be solved with the careful application of high explosives. The trick is not to be around when they go off.”
          -Colonel Mertz von Quirnheim (Valkyrie)

          “There are very few personal problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives.”
          – Scott Adams

  • AC97

    *reads video comment*

    For the low, low price of $30 a round, this ammo can be yours!

    (If only it were cheaper…)

  • Raptor Fred

    This would be neat with 22-250 and M855a1 or even M855. 3600fps+. Who’s got a fast twist 22-250 to use for science???

    • Working on that… The twist rate is holding us back. Hence probably why the .22 Nosler exists now.

      • Raptor Fred

        Understood. The cheapest way of doing it that I have thought of, would be to get a Ruger American in .223 1-8. Opening the bolt face to .473 (the extractor looks to be the same on all the guns) and rechambering the .223 barrel to 22-250. This is really not that expensive or difficult. And much cheaper than a custom barrel. Just a thought.

        • ๐Ÿ˜€ We’ll see what it can do. Perhaps the velocity is there, but research is showing 3500 fps, and the bullet stability calculator says no ๐Ÿ™ We’ll see

          • Raptor Fred

            Superformance will get you to 3600. But obviously the variables in the bullet construction making pressure too early. What is the M855A1 projectile length?

    • Ray Peterson III

      Having inherited a beautiful old Remington 22-250 I began wondering the same thing. M855 won’t stabilize, 855A1 even worse.

      I’m thinking a M995 bullet at 3800 fps would be pretty sick but then you run into availability & prohibitive cost.

    • JamesDrouin

      I have an old Rem 22-250 that shoots a 3/8 MOA … body armor be damned.

  • Rnasser Rnasser

    M993 and M995 were developed (and are still made by?) by Nammo of Norway.
    So I suspect the same rounds (and bullet technology) are available to anyone who pay for it.

  • Sermon 7.62

    As someone has said B32 is old ammo, it was replaced by 7N26, and 7N14. And there is a rifle called VKS that is in 12.7ร—55mm caliber.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4b767ebcbf31439a918ee25c6b1d7542277c7e4283ea39b97e101c749aac68d.jpg

    The last to the right is AP STs-130VPS round.

  • ActionPhysicalMan

    Come on Andrew, that is a quite a lame headline. The answer is very obvious. I am breaking your balls here, but not in an unfriendly spirit:-)

    • Chop Block

      Lol. Hyperbolic.

  • mosinman

    i want some of that B32… for purely academic research of course

  • LazyReader

    I’m pretty sure a .338 Norma magnum will go through that like a hot knife through margarine……..what I’m poor I cant afford butter.

    • Little Commercial Availability right now to .338 NM ๐Ÿ˜€ It would be interesting to test.

  • valorius

    M995 would do the same thing. Both M993 and M995 were tested against an intact BRDM and both defeated it’s armor from all aspects.

  • valorius

    This goes to show just how much the US Army DOESN’T need a new round or service rifle in 7.62mm.

    • Kinetics

      Yes and no.

      A new service rifle in 7.62? Absolutely not.

      A better squad DMR? Absolutely!

      There are more than enough capable AR-10 style rifles out there, it’s a no brainier, especially given that they’ve run through the stocks of M14’s.

      Also, M80A1, which is technically a new round, is a good idea and logical progression given M855A1’s performance. We know it will punch through steal, but don’t know about level IV ceramic which is the interesting question.

      Tungsten is expensive and if I recall, M993 and M995 are harder on rifles then standard rounds.

      Why go overkill (M993 & M995) when we can quickly develop a cheaper round that is easier on rifles, and hopefully, shoot it out of a lighter rifle with familiar ergonomics that sticks out less?

      • valorius

        What’s wrong with the new M14 variant as a DMR? Didn’t the Army also buy the M110 for that role?

        Did you really just use the terms “quickly” AND “cheaply” to describe a US military program? o.O

        • Kinetics

          They are hoping to roll the M110A1 (aka G28) into the SDMR role (that’s why the interim rifle RFI specified a 12lb max unloaded weight), but it looks like they are open to other options at the moment. Yes, cheap and quick are often untrue, but compared to the Individual Carbine debacle, this should be easier.

          M14’s are great, but they have already run through the stocks already. Also, an M14 EBR weighs 11-15lbs unloaded with no optic depending on the configuration and stick out from the rest of a squad.

          An AR based SDM would be lighter (both rifle and mags), shorter, easier to train on (similar manual of arms to other weapons), and much more configurable.

          • valorius

            The Mk12 SPR SDM rifle is by all accounts an excellent weapon too, and is only 10lbs fully outfitted and loaded.

          • valorius

            Never under-estimate the ability of the US DoD and Congress to massively complicate and inflate the price of any weapons system, causing enormous delays and ultimately, cancellations.

      • Level IV stops m80a1. I’ve tested it on the same RMa plate model from above. Even engardes level IV stopped it st 3400 fps!

  • Stuki Moi

    That’s why us real hardcore operators carry a .45 ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Brett baker

    I think we know what some folks will want in their care packages from Uncle Vladimir.

  • Cory C

    Hahaha.

  • No one

    ….He IS the one making the claim that Chinese Level IV is stolen, last I check that puts the burden of proof on him. But I forgot that would involve most commenters on this site doing their own research or not making knee jerk statements without looking them up at all so that’s Haram. And then expecting the burden of proof to be shifted to the less popular side of the argument when It’s not in their favor to follow the actual rules of an argument.

    Hey, why not check Timothy Yan’s blog (who, you may know as a guest poster here if you’re not lazy) for starters where he confirms that Chinese Level IV equivalent uses AL2O3 (which he probably just lists as “Aluminum Oxide”) and Armor steel for starters as early as 2010 and possibly before, who is far more educated on the subject then basically anyone here will ever be?

    You’re not entitled to me doing your homework for you when it’s actually him making the claim in the first place and you simply can’t recognize that, I’m not your personal google so look that up yourself.

  • NeoBlackdog

    ” but you should probably mainly try not to get shot.”
    Words to live by, right there!

  • Secundius

    Unless you’re wearing an “Impact Vest” behind the “Armored Vest”, the Kinetic Energy of the Large Caliber Round is STILL going to KILL you…

  • dmh

    with that level of shock transmitted, is it even necessary that the round penetrate?

    • NIJ specifies up to 44mm of BackFace in a special prepared clay as “survivable”. While it looks awesome on highspeed, these level IV plates usually stop M2AP at 2800 fps with backface under 35mm. Broken rib, bruised? Probably, dead from stopping penetration, unlikely..

      • Secundius

        Approximately 1.6-inches (41mm) of AlON “Aluminium Oxnitride” (Al23O27N5) will STOP a .50-caliber (12.7×99) AP at Point-Blank Range!/? Unfortunately the Kinetic Energy will Liquefy your Internal Organs…

        • You mean the same way the shooter isn’t liquified from shooting said bullet? The hard surface absorbs the energy. I shot a 50 caliber rated plate at 30 yards. The 45 lb clay behind it showed probably over 44mm of BFS but it was still there.

          • Secundius

            As far as I know, nobody has yet started on an “Shok Shock” Impact Vest that can be worn behind a Level IV (or any vest) Ballistic Vest…

          • Well that’s typically what the clay is there to represent. I’m definitely not saying if someone designed a plate to stop 50 BMG, that the amount of backface wouldn’t seriously hurt you. But since there’s no NIJ level for 50BMG we’re left guessing. Then realistically, who’s going to get hit with 50BMG at less than a few hundred yards away ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d like to test it though.

          • Secundius

            Modern Level IX Naval Armor, consists of ~2-1/2-inches (~64mm) of Kevlar-29 Ballistic 6,6 Polyamide Nylon. I don’t know if That would even stop a .50-caliber BMG a Point-Blank Range…

          • Would be nice to get my hands on stuff like that for testing ๐Ÿ˜€ The plate I tested was a Ceradyne from the early 90s for Heli pilots

          • Secundius

            Both Kevlar-29 and AlON are Commercially available to the General Public. It’s just a matter of how much you’re willing to spend. AlON is produced by Surmet Corporation of Boston, MA. And DuPont makes Kevlar. But the “Cheapest” source for Kevlar is “Alibaba” which is Chinese owned…

  • The Brigadier

    There is a new material named ALON whose name is an acronym for Aluminum-Oxygen-Nitride. If you remember the old Star Trek movie where Scotty goes to a metal manufacturer in San Francisco and gives them the formula for transparent aluminum so they can make tanks for a couple of sperm whales, then reality mirrors that old classic. ALON is truly an optically clear metal and they are currently making it in thickness up to 1.62″. They tested this thickness with everything up .50 BMG and yes indeedy it stopped the .50 BMG leaving only a very small mark. This amazing new metal is lightweight and will probably replace other metals for most cars and it will also double up for the windows as well. Imagine helmet face shields that can stop 50 BMG! : )

    I was stoked when I read the report. While Level 4 is the new standard, this material should rapidly replace it. It will be the king of body armor until hand held rail guns finally become a working reality. They are still three or four years away, but companies are solving the problems with downsizing rail guns piece by piece. So the usual cycle of new armor being defeated by some new penetrator goes on. Until it does, I am going to get some ALON and make myself some plates and maybe some greaves and gauntlets as well.

    • Secundius

      Actually it’s Generic Name is “Aluminum Oxynitride” (Al23O27N5) made by Surmet of Boston. And is a “Cermet” or Ceramic/Metallic Composite. “Thermion” and Arc Applied version of ALON can withstand temperatures as high as 3,902F. And is being applied to Flight Deck of US Naval Ships. The Ballistic Glass version is being used as Replace Glass on the NEW US Army Oskosh built MRAP’s…

      • The Brigadier

        Except its not a glass. Its actually transparent aluminum and that’s what withstood the shots by the Barrett rifle. The author of the article I read recently kept making that point. It looks like glass, you can see through it like glass, but its a transparent metal.

        • Secundius

          It’s NOT Aluminum!/? It’s Aluminum Oxynitride!/? A Ceramic/Aluminum Composite…

          • The Brigadier

            The ceramic was added to the ship’s deck coating so sailors wouldn’t slip on the slippery transparent aluminum surface and drown in the sea. If you add ceramic to a transparent compound it wouldn’t be transparent anymore. Use some common sense for Heaven’s sake.

          • Secundius

            Down Wash of Heat Exhaust of MV-22 Osprey Engines in either Take-Off or Landing Mode is in Excess of 3,092F!/? If Helicopters ALONE, a Thermal Protective Barrier to the Flight Deck wouldn’t be Necessary…