Georgian Armed Forces to replace PKM with M240B

The Georgian Ministry of Defense has released statements and even staged a demonstration wherein the land component of the Georgian Armed Forces will replace the 7.62x54R PKM medium machine guns with FN Herstal 7.62x51mm NATO M240Bs. This will be a gradual replacement over the next year or so as PKMs become switched out with M240Bs within the infantry and mechanized forces of the Republic of Georgia. Because the announcement specifically mentions “U.S. made” M240Bs, we’ve taken that to possibly mean that this purchase is either through Foreign Military Sales programs or that these are at least M240Bs previously in use by the U.S. Army and were replaced by M240Ls in active Army service.

From the post on Sputnik

“Defense Minister Levan Izoria, head of the General Staff Maj. Gen. Vladimer Chachibaia and US Ambassador to Georgia Ian Kelly will attend the demonstration of US-produced M240 machine guns on the shooting range of the JTEC. Beginning tomorrow, PK machine guns will be gradually replaced in service of the Georgian army by US analogs M240, meeting NATO standards,” the statement reads.

Georgia is not a NATO member, but has been seeking membership and cooperation with the Alliance. In 2008, NATO supported Georgia’s bid to join the Alliance, and established a commission to oversee the process of Georgian NATO accession. Georgia has to meet a number of requirements first, including the implementation of various reforms and modernizing the army.

This will be an interesting modernization step for Georgia because as of now this will be the first 7.62x51mm NATO chambered weapon system that Georgian Land Forces will be armed with. The M240Bs will probably be more accurate than currently fielded PKMs, but they will only be slightly less used than the Cold War era PKMs that the army is currently using. They will also be heavier, and won’t come with the mobile ammunition capability that the PKM has through the removable ammunition box (they can, but only up to 50 rounds). This will have to be taken into consideration, especially for dismounted infantrymen. The whole NATO membership admission, I don’t think will be important when it comes to machine gun commonality, because much more important factors are at stake, and have more to do with strategic implications.

Separate from Georgia, we are seeing PKM modernization programs in Poland and Russia itself.





Miles

Infantry Marine, based in the Midwest. Specifically interested in small arms history, development, and usage within the MENA region and Central Asia. To that end, I run Silah Report, a website dedicated to analyzing small arms history and news out of MENA and Central Asia.

Please feel free to get in touch with me about something I can add to a post, an error I’ve made, or if you just want to talk guns. I can be reached at miles@tfb.tv


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  • Just Say’n

    Good choice, M240s rock! Except they are super heavy…

    • Anonymoose

      So really, it’s a downgrade.

      • CommonSense23

        I’m going to make the assumption he has never used a PKM.

        • Anonymoose

          Me or him?

          • Gary Kirk
          • CommonSense23

            Him. I’m not a big fan of Russian weapons or equipment. But the PKM is scary how good a weapon is.

          • Gary Kirk

            Yes, the PKM is a great weapon system.. In it’s element, the 240 flat out destroys it when all things are considered.. Neither is optimal, too heavy for fire on target.. And neither are worth a Damn accuracy wise..

          • Brett baker

            Mg’s aren’t sniper rifles. They keep the enemy’s heads down while riflemen flank’em.

          • Gary Kirk

            Or.. You get your dmr to do his job, or preferably you have access to a scout/sniper element.. But, most likely, you’ll just call in an air strike.. Screw precision, when you can just blow the ever loving Hell outta everyone..

            ETA: Not that I am against that..

          • n0truscotsman

            Considering that with a M145 MGO and M192 tripod I can strike human targets with respectable dispersion 1500 meters away, yeah, i would say thats *pretty damn good accuracy*.

            They fill out their niche handsomely. The PKM also does being a light weight GPMG being more man portable than its western contemporaries. It was light years ahead of the M60. Still can take anything else to the woodshed reliability wise.

          • jono102

            Its a good gun but like the MAG-58 or any gun for that matter has pro’s and con’s. It nice and light weight for what it is but that comes at a trade off.
            We had a couple to train ANP with. When you put them side by side with a MAG-58 (L7/C6/M240) and a 5.56 Minimi/C9, you see the advantages/limitations of each. We found what would take a MAG 2 bursts to get on with (300m+), it would take the PKM 4-5. The lighter design and barrel got effected a lot faster by heat i.e. bigger cone of fire and beaten zone. It will still get the rounds out there just not as predictably as a MAG, conversely it crapped all over the Minimi/C9 and its 5.56 rds in the same way.
            Personally I found the barrel change system/method pretty ugly and longer to do than the MAG/Minimi. The empty non disintegrating link is just another thing hanging off the gun getting in the way especially the 100+ belts. The belt boxes are quite bulky for what they are too.

            It comes down to what floats your boat and best meets your requirements/budget, but I’m guessing the most likely reason they are going to the MAG/M240 is because they would be pretty much free as part of military aid and/or a sweetner to a larger package deal.

          • jcitizen

            I think a lot of troops in the GWOT run into the worn out monkey model PKMs. I’ve seen and fired a Russian built Russian issue variant, and it was a better LMG than anything I had fired; but then I’ve never used an M240, so I digress.

            I actually like the non-disintegrating belts, because they are easier to reload in the field. And they reload very fast. And it is very difficult reloading 7.62×51 belts, so you have to hope you can find the ammo already loaded.

          • Sermon 7.62

            How good the SVD is! How good the OSV-96, VKS and Orsis T5000 is? Just like the PKM

          • CommonSense23

            You really are a Russian shill aren’t you.

          • jono102

            I guess he is to Russian equipment what Newman is to any H&K product

          • jono102

            The SVD was pretty good especially when it had no real comparison in the west. But like the rest those weapons now they’re pretty average at best when compared to other contemporary systems these days and some are very task specific.

          • Sermon 7.62

            Take into account that full SVD that has a 24″ barrel and 320mm twist, it shoots sub-moa, and it can hit a man from 1.300m

            SVD-s has a 20″ barrel and 240mm twist and shoots a bit more than 1 moa. That’s comparable to its counterparts like M110, G28 etc.

            HK sell G28 and promise 1.5moa or less, M110 is required to shoot 1.3moa. Full SVD is required to shoot 1moa or less, so it still is a more acuurate and capable rifle than its counterparts.

          • jono102

            Except most DMR/DMW’s can carry out a large variety role well rather than one role well like the SVD. The G28, MWS and others allow an Infantryman to engage in close combat, self protection as well as produce a good degree of precision fires and are not one shot ponies. They also have very good optics which provide a good observational aide.
            I have no doubt the SVD can get the round out to range but looking at the quality and capability of standard issue Russian optics, mounts etc I highly doubt its consistency at range. This opinion is drawn from using them and the likes of the Yugo M76. I’d take the M76 in a heart beat over the SVD.

          • Sermon 7.62

            Your info is outdated.

            SVD-s does all the things that other DMR do and the Russians make serious and good optics. For example this 1P59 scope is unique.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2a97420758e4e68dd94b73ba25f6f5abe93da5a386261ac8dec3a4593945a9d8.jpg

          • jono102

            “SVD-s does all the things that other DMR”
            Sure it does…. Have you any actual exposure to any other contemporary DMR/DMW’s and their optical or sighting systems?

          • Sermon 7.62

            Like I said Russian optics and sights are better than people think. There is high-end stuff. But if some prefer Leupold it can be used, too

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4137d06cc377bbb8d972cb651a183ccbc5f8e0989fa69b4bd3aa8d760bb97ed8.jpg

          • Sermon 7.62

            There is SVD-m, a model that is modified to answer all the criticism but I don’t think that it makes it a better rifle.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3552d856dd18234a1e482ac70d125590e1fc18bfa7566f476f0d549bd210ef0c.jpg

    • Gary Kirk

      So.. Giv’em an M-240 G.. Oh, wait.. It takes MARINES to use those.. 😉

  • DW

    Doesn’t SOCOM want some PKM?

    • Not as a normal issue weapon.

      They are for training, and for giving to indigenous forces.

    • Jay

      anyone with a brain wants a PKM.

    • wetcorps

      They should do a trade.

  • Twilight sparkle

    I wonder if Russia is going to invade and burn them again

    • Green Hell

      After Saakashvili fled to Ukraine, the new Georgian government is in good relationship with Russia.

    • Paul Rain

      Lol. You do realize that they actually invaded a breakaway province (which has every right to break away) that happens to be under Russia’s umbrella? As in, they actually sent in troops and tanks and thought nothing would happen… and then Russia rolled in.

      • Twilight sparkle

        Okay I wasn’t trying to start a political debate down here, this was supposed to be a jocose comment about Georgia having their stuff burned right after adopting it.

        • vwVwwVwv

          They will invade, NATO is not united, America
          has to much inner Struggle and Putin needs
          Success for the Russian greedy soul.

          • Sermon 7.62

            Fat, dude. Too fat

          • vwVwwVwv

            Don’t like it Iwan, I will stop, don’t bother

      • vwVwwVwv

        I am from this province and you are talking XXXXXXX
        If S-Ossetia ( for millennia a integral part of Georgia )
        has a right for Independance, what about N-Ossetia, ( I don’t oppose independence, adjarria is independent to, no problem)
        which is hold by Russia for to long, why is Russia not
        uniting both and giving them independence and why
        has Russia forced Russian passports on both populations,
        making the republics breakaway but the people’s Russians?
        Russia has displaced more then 400000 people from this lands
        Turned them in to refugees, what for?

  • Green Hell

    Great choice, replace the light, reliable and effective LMG with barely man-portable tank turret weapon just for the sake of NATO standartisation.

    • Secundius

      That and the Fact that the Georgians REALLY Don’t Like the Russians…

  • Ratcraft

    Rats, was hoping the BAR was making a comeback…

    • mazkact

      With a BAR or a Lewis you get style points as well.

  • Brett baker

    Well we could give’m free ammo. Technical question, how hard would it be to convert PKM 7.62×51? That should be cheaper.

    • Harry’s Holsters

      It’d probably be harder than just replacing the current PKMs. Different OAL length and if the program has problems you’re looking at massive costs with the same end result of replacing the guns.

      I could seeing it being cheaper to gun with new manufacture 7.62 NATO PKMs if some exist.

    • jono102

      I’m guessing its more the fact they will probably get the M240’s largely for free as Military aid as opposed to paying for 7.62 PKM’s or anything else.

    • SP mclaughlin

      There is also the Bulgarian MG-1M, which is showing up a lot in Iraq/Syria recently.

  • vwVwwVwv

    Georgia has one strategic adversary, Russia.
    It has the size of Swisserland and a
    Population of 4.000.000.
    Russia is occupieing 1/3 of Georgia’s Territory and Georgia has no Ally’s to help.
    Known as fierce Warriors who had quite remarkable influence on history
    they have no real chance to fight back Russia’s hunger
    for other people’s land, and the hunger
    is big cus Georgia is beautiful.

    • micmac80

      Last time i was i Georgia my main takeaway was religius nutjobs and mafiosi and often both combined ,Church on every step and shops seling fake religius all the way not to mention the ‘pops’ with golden mobile phones and Mercedes limos

      • vwVwwVwv

        Like in the whole ex USSR, 70 years of slavery don’t pass so easy.
        Thet I am from the region does not make me a Georgian, Ossetian, Abchasian or Russian, I do not belong to none of them even if I understand some of the languages and have sympathy to all of them, Russia plays
        As always a dirty game there, why do you
        Think the Boston marathon
        Bombers came to
        The USA?
        You can use a refugee problem, to gain land and hurt the enemy, they have been tshetshens, also a small nation displaced from the land which goes Islamist now….

        • Sermon 7.62

          Internet Forces of Ukraine?

          • vwVwwVwv

            Not really, I made two times Holliday in Ukraine in my life and can’t stand the
            strange language, none the less it is in Russia’s interest that people speak up.
            Russia can be a country to watch up rather to look disgusted away,
            good people, smart, educated…… I even do not criticize
            Putin cuz I fear the man who will follow him.

          • Sermon 7.62

            Ukrainian patriots and nationalists speak on the Russian TV all the time on political programs. Plus, there is “oppositional” press.

          • vwVwwVwv

            I promised to STFU all I say is you are wrong

      • Sermon 7.62

        In fact, Georgia used to be dependent on Chechens and it was because of the Chechens that Georgians asked the Russians to protect them.

        • vwVwwVwv

          N ake F ews

    • Jay

      Oh sure they are brave warriors….There are plenty of videos on youtube and you see them running like scared rats, when thy heared a machine gun. Than it’s that classic video of their former “brave president”, running for his life and taking a dive in the mud when he heared a Russian plane.

      • vwVwwVwv

        Stalin was a Georgian, lord Bagration was one of “Russia’s” heroes
        who turned Napoleon to retreat, a Georgian….
        Georgian Mamelukes have ruled for hundreds of years over Iraq, Syria and Egypt,
        Even a Persian shah wrote while conquering Afganistan with Caucasian mercenarys
        ” all warriors are broads vs the afghans but the afghans are broads against my Georgians…. You don’t know the history of the region, lot of Hollywood stuff there.
        Yes I remember how they runn,
        what can you do against a local power with no arms and army.
        Russia invaded this small country with more tanks then hitler
        Used for operation Barbarossa. Most of Georgia’s little army
        helped in this time as part of the coalition in Iraq and Afganistan,
        but it would have been not enough to stop Russia.
        In comparison it is like if Germany or France would conquer Luxembourg.

        • Max Glazer

          Invaded? Ummm The Operation that Russians conducted is what you get when you attack the Russian peace-keeping contingent that is there with a mandate from UN. That is what you get when you shell a sleeping town at 3am with GRAD MLRS. That is what you get when you roll your tanks through villages shooting houses left and right. Even UN investigation concluded that it was Georgia that started that war. By the way what were the US instructors doing with the Georgian forces that rolled through South Ossetia?

          Russians occupying a quarter of their territory? Please look at the size of the South Ossetian unrecognized republic and then tell me if it looks like a quarter of Georgian territory. Also South Ossetians declared independence from Georgia soon after USSR dissolution. Russian forces are there STILL with a UN mandate. It’s not an occupation force. They are still an official peace-keeping force. Since Russia recognized South Ossetia and South Ossetian government asked Russia for protection, Russians are there legally.

          Georgians were outnumbering Russian 58th Army 3-1 at least and Russians used T-62 and old T-72B with obsolete electronics and ERA. Georgians were in a good position to win. But Georgians ran because they were nowhere near as experienced in street battles as Russians were. Also the Vostok battalion of Chechens who together with Ingushetians are fiercest fighters when it comes to North Causasus. Georgian supply lines were not even there. Civilians that supply was outsourced to didn’t want to get shot. Georgian tanks were running out of fuel, so were other vehicles. Combined with Russians moving and creating diversions making Georgians think that Russians are absolutely everywhere when in fact they weren’t, that made Georgians believe they are about to get utterly thumped. Russian forces pulled out of Georgian territory after that operation.

          • vwVwwVwv

            Spreading Russian propaganda isn’t the best thing for you credibility.
            The Area is Georgian territory occupied by Russia. There is nothing to add,
            Russia is occupieing Krimea, parts of Poland, N-Ossetia, Tshetshenia, Ingushetia,
            parts the Dombas region, Circissia, it holds dozens of small people occupied,
            holds parts of China, Mongolia, Korea and Japan, but as Russians don’t
            breed, in an level which is seen as irreversible and don’t have
            Prospect as every smart Russian flees Russia, it’s a
            Temporary phenomenon which will
            be solved in peace I hope.
            Cuz I love the Russians who sadly tend to be ruled by monsters, idiots or both.

          • Max Glazer

            1) You can’t even write the names of the areas correctly. If you can’t do something so basic then taking your political opinion isn’t even worthwhile.
            2) Keep spewing western propaganda. It’s hilarious. All my mates are having a laugh over here.
            3) Crimean population ran a referendum and decided to go back home to Russia where it belongs. Over 90% of them. Period. They spat on western opinion.
            4) You don’t know a thing about North Ossetia, South Ossetia, Georgia or Chechnya so don’t even go there. Anyone with knowledge of the region will laugh at you. But sure go ahead and support the genocide the Georgians were about to commit against ethnic minorities in the unrecognized republics. Wonder why those areas hold Russians in such high regard.
            5) No parts of Poland are under Russian occupation. In fact they don’t even share a border. Check the map before you yap.

            6) Don’t bother responding since it’ll be embarrassing for you. Even if you do I will not waste my time or data on discussions with a person whose info base is nothing but propaganda that west is so good at.

            Bye.

          • vwVwwVwv

            1. have you seen me wrighting names in Georgian or Ossetian, what is your
            correct word for the old Georgian name Zchinwali”south Ossetians capital?
            2. the west is not engaging in propaganda, it’s Easter to expose the Russian one.
            3. Crimea population had a cup deta, the election under the Russian AK74
            Says nothing is pathetic and will pay off bad to Russia.
            4. No I don’t know nothing about it but to be born there and seal all the
            Languages you mentioned as bad as my bad English.
            Russia has lost nothing in the region, nor do their war settlers there.
            5. No parts of Poland, you are funny, you have moved the whole country to the west.
            6. Data? May be you can tell me how Russia legally got so large if not thru occupation,
            What have you lost in country’s who had a civilization you
            was living in caves hunting with stones?

  • FT_Ward

    ” The whole NATO membership admission”

    Another very bad idea. If the US hadn’t arranged for the Ukrainian coup (done to get Ukraine into the EU and eventually NATO) there would be no rebellion there, the Crimean annexation wouldn’t have happened and NATO wouldn’t be putting troops in the Baltics and ships in the Black Sea to counter “Russian aggression”.

    • Malthrak

      Yes…it was the US that did it all…couldnt be the basic internal instability of Ukraine pulling the nation in multiple directions and Russian internal pressures exacerbating issues on the border to distract from collapsing energy exports and the like. Totally impossible…it had to be US meddling from the other side of the planet that caused it all!

      XD

      • FT_Ward

        Yes. As usual actually. Ask Iran, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Grenada, Mexico, Lebanon, Panama, the Dominican Republic, Cuba, the Congo, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Philippines…..well the list is longer and inglorious.

        The other side of the planet? I’m confused. I thought the CIA existed specifically to break laws inside other countries. You can even wire transfer money from Virginia to Kiev and hack computers from Maryland.

        When the neocons and others talk about US hegemony and full spectrum dominance etc. they’re talking about empire. Arranging coups is what empires do.

        • Gary Kirk

          Think your tinfoil hat is a touch too small brother..

        • Malthrak

          I’m not saying the US had no hand at all, but even in all your examples, those places were having issues or full scale open warfare before the US showed up. Yes the US has done some terrible stuff, but blaming everything on the CIA or whatnot vastly overinflates their actualy effect in the overwhelming majority of instances (though admittedly not all) by many orders of magnitude.

          Ukraine had already thrown out Yanukovich once, the dude was obscenely corrupt, stuff was going to happen with or without the US, and if we’re gonna be blaming anyone outside of Russia and Ukraine, it should really be the EU, not the US, but Ukraine mostly did it to itself with Russia’s help.

          • FT_Ward

            Is you argument that you know the CIA didn’t do this one although it has done or tried lots of similar things? Or you know they tried and failed but someone else did what they wanted to. Or you hope they didn’t try this time.

          • crackedlenses

            So in other words everything is the CIA’s fault. Weeeeeee…..

          • Sermon 7.62

            US or not but some people spent a lot of bucks training their nationalist batallions. And the coup itself costed a lot, so someone paid for it. And some people from the US confirmed spending 5 bill. $ on that coup and the preparation, financing propaganda, supporting on the international scale, etc.

            US and EU are behing the coup in Ukraine

          • Malthrak

            Who from the US confirmed spending 5 billion for the Ukraine coup/revolution/whateveryouwannacallit

            Lets remember the dude that got thrown out had already been thrown out once before and was notorious for corruption for many years.

            Lets also not pretend that there arent very wealthy Ukrainian oligarchs with their own designs on power, or that Ukraine isnt also one of the most over equipped (and extremely corrupt) countries in the world for infantry weapons (at one point after the fall of the Iron Curtain having over 100 rifles to each soldier), or that the EU next door wasnt trying for its own huge trade pact that Russia killed either. US interests and potential rewards are a secondary if not tertiary level there relative to the other powers involved.

          • Sermon 7.62

            You can read “Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call” on BBC.

            US has been standing behind the crisis in Ukraine, and the Ukrainian oligarchs are all happen to be Jewish and tied to their friends and partners in the US.

            And “the dude that got thrown out” was notorious for corruption, but so were the others before him. All of them

      • n0truscotsman

        “it had to be US meddling from the other side of the planet that caused it all!”

        A big part of it they did.

        Who expanded NATO beyond the underdog defensive pact it was supposed to be near the borders of Russian territory?

        Oh right. Not the Russians.

        And if the Russians were covertly operating in that country, why do you suppose the United States didn’t?

        • Malthrak

          Didnt say the US wasnt opersting at all there, but there’s zero evidence the US played the major pivotal role, the EU role and their trade pact (and Russian counter offer that killed it) issue was way bigger than anything the US has done there in triggering that conflict. It should also be noted that, while there are large numbers of confirmed Russian servicemembers known to operate or having been killed in Ukraine, there are no American servicemembers known to be such, are we really going to claim our opsec is *that* much better?

          As for NATO, even before all this went down that wasnt immediately on the table for Ukraine, and, more importantly, wasnt some big driving US push into eastern europe, these were ex soviet states asking themselves to join precisely because they’re afraid of Russia. NATO in general was standing down before Ukraine, some NATO nations were even abandoning stuff like MBT’s altogether and the armies of Europe had never been smaller or so poorly prepared since before the French Revolution, which the Crimean invasion put a hard stop to.

          • Sermon 7.62

            There was no invasion. Russia had the right to keep soldiers in Crimea.

            25 thousand soldiers, 130 BTR, 20 aircrafts and 380 ships

          • Malthrak

            Russia had the right to use leased facilities, not seize the entire peninsula or send forces into eastern Ukraine…thats typically considered an invasion.

          • Sermon 7.62

            You are missing some important nuances. Russia had the right to increase the number of its troops to 25 thousand, and that’s more than the “leased facilities” can accomodate, so that’s not so simple. Plus, these are not leased facilities.

            Crimea had a special status in Ukraine and had the right to go independent, and also to join Russian Federation.

            Russia didn’t send “forces” into Eastern Ukraine. There are some volunteers, some of them ex-something, but this doesn’t mean that Russia sends its real forces. There are Blackwater troops in Ukraine, too

          • Malthrak

            Russia had no right to seieze Ukrainian territory and had signed treaties recognizing and asserting the correctness of the post soviet borders (which how they got Ukraine to agree to give up its nuclear arsenal).

            Yes they were allowed to have troops there. No they weren’t allowed to just take the facilities, Ukrainian government buildings and military equipment, or anything else. They had no governing rights. When those troops moved off their leased bases (yes, the Russian Federation leased those bases from the Ukrainian government, they were not Russian territory) in full kit to take control of the peninsula, that was, by any definition, an invasion.

            There’s a reason the “little green men” operated without insignia until after nobody could do anything about it…because they knew it was illegal. Russia had zero legal standing to do what it did.

            If you believe the line about “volunteers”, then either you’ve drunk the kool aid whole heartedly and willingly, or the Russian military is so dysfunctional that literally thousands of soldiers can take their government issued equipment and go AWOL to fight in a foreign nation without any repercussions and we’ve got an even bigger problem to worry about.

            The appearance of large quantities of post Soviet Russian-specific equipment in their ranks, stuff like 74M’s, Pechenegs, tank upgrades, etc makes it pretty obvious it’s not just “volunteers”.

          • Sermon 7.62

            Russia had no right to seize Ukrainian territory and had signed treaties recognizing and asserting the correctness of the post soviet borders, but the Crimea region had a special autonomous status and wasn’t a part of Ukraine after the referendum.

            “A referendum on the status of Crimea was held on March 16, 2014, by the legislature of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea as well as by the local government of Sevastopol. The referendum asked local population whether they wanted to join Russia as a federal subject, or if they wanted to restore the 1992 Crimean constitution and Crimea’s status as a part of Ukraine.”

            Russia didn’t lease Sevastopol from Ukraine. It was build on the Russian investments by the Russians, and was included into Ukraine in 1956 on a number of conditions that Ukraine didn’t fulfill.

            Yes, Russia didn’t have governing rights to “just take the facilities” but the legal Ukrainian government had no objections against it, and the new coup leaders were not the legal governmentt of Ukraine, excuse my grammar.

            The weapons in Ukraine are Ukrainian weapons.

      • ClownBaBy2013

        All I know is we don’t have access to cheap surplus 5.45 due to that bull-ish. Thank you Obammy.

  • Malthrak

    The PKM is probably a better gun, but it makes sense not to want to be dependent on your primary adversary for arms.

  • FactChecker90803

    I would go for the Barret 240LW MMg as the Weapons Section MG and the FN Mk48 7.62mm LWMG, as the platoon MG.

    • some other joe

      Psssst. The weapons squad’s MGs ARE the PLT MGs.

      • FactChecker90803

        What’s a PLT?

        • Phillip Cooper

          You don’t know what a PLT is, but feel qualified to recommend a weapons loadout for one???

          • Joe

            Well, he definitely never wrote and mailed a letter home from BCT.
            If they even do that anymore, with thumb typing who knows…

  • Joe

    Anyone think the US DOD could have copied the PK decades ago, rechambered it in 7.62 NATO, and retained the reliability? The 240 is great, on a vehicle or tripod. The PK shines dismounted. A better modern solution is the MK48 I guess, but how many decades did that take, and how durable is it by comparison?

    • Brasstard

      They did chamber a pkm in 7.62×51 long ago but decided to scrap the idea after lots of work. It was going to replace the coaxial machine gun on n tanks I think the m73.

  • micmac80

    ‘nato admission fee’ is to buy some in US , when we were entering NATO ,that meant some armored vehicles and no one even pretended its anything other than a fee

  • Replacing one of the worlds lightest and most versatile GPMG’s with a boat anchor.

  • Just my opinion

    Seems to have been about the dumbest thing they could have done. Replace what is arguably the current world standard gpmg for something that offers no more capability and substantially more weight. All things considered, why go to a heavier weapon that offers no benefits? If they had to have 7.62 nato chambering, call up the damn Poles! Or how about adopting the Mg51 or Mg3?

    • Jay

      US foreign policy. They do this crap in any country they buy. Pay the politicians to burn/melt their own cheap stuf and then make them buy your expensive crap.
      That’s exactly why all this countires have been bombed to rubble in the last two decades. US military industrial complex got to get paid, by any means.
      This has been the USA foreign policy of the last 50+ years.

      • Sermon 7.62

        In Ukraine, Ukrainians are making Galil and Tavor. Under licence 🙂

  • Foma Klimov

    They were armed with IMI Negev when attempting to genocide South Ossetians for the second time in 2008. When we intervened, we captured a lot of those MGs and they were just as terrible as their Bushmaster M4s. They were using some really bad Turkish ammo, but no NATO ammo should make military guns perform this bad. Relations have got better after they got rid of that moron Saakashvilli and made him Ukraine’s problem. This is just another one of their dumb, corrupt arms deals that will turn out a disaster.

    • pbla4024

      You mean when Russians invaded independent neighboring country again? It seems to be their national sport.

      • Sermon 7.62

        You mean south Ossetia?

        “South Ossetia declared independence from the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1991. The Georgian government responded by abolishing South Ossetia’s autonomy and trying to re-establish its control over the region by force. The crisis escalation led to the 1991–92 South Ossetia War. Georgian fighting against those controlling South Ossetia occurred on two other occasions, in 2004 and 2008.”

      • Foma Klimov

        What’s US’? Invading countries across the world, turning entire regions into unstable, terrorist-filled hell holes and making it other people’s problems (Europe refugee crisis, etc)? At least we only play in our own neighborhood and only when our borders/security are directly undermined and threatened… in case of South Ossetia, our soldiers and citizens were murdered via a cowardly sneak attack by an unstable neocon pet.

    • Brett baker

      Oh crap, the U.S. bought some of those M4’s!

    • vwVwwVwv

      Dream on, Genozide, you have created a Genozide.
      Equipped with IMI negev, how many, all 3 georgian
      Machingunners, you send 2000 tanks to atack?
      You are real heroes when it’s 1000 vs 1.
      What have you gained but
      Hate? But who cares, Russians don’t get kids no more, soon it will be 1 vs 1, than it will
      Be a big whining
      ….njet mamatshka nje beite, nje nada….
      By the way, Israel is selling PKM,
      Brand new, abandoned after
      The first shot, great Russian gun, if you have no other gun.

  • Jeremy

    Uh oh, an article about a former Soviet bloc nation joining NATO? Hunker down in your MG nests boys, Little Green Keyboard Warriors are coming!

    On a serious note, I’ve always thought it was weird that after WW2 the West didn’t just look at the German equipments (MG42, STG 44, tanks, etc) and think to themselves, “Huh, these stuff’s pretty good, we should proceed to improve and adopt these designs.

    • pbla4024

      West did look at the German equipment:
      For example M60 is combination of MG42 and FG42
      British style centrifugal compressor jet engines were replaced by German style axial compressor jet engines
      And so on and so forth

    • J.T.

      The little green keyboard warriors seem to have gotten here before we did.

    • n0truscotsman

      We did but we learned all the wrong lessons, and utterly screwed up the entire reasoning behind a GPMG to begin with, which was epitomized with the MG34 and MG42 and the Lafette tripod.

      The failure that came from the lessons learned from the excellent German designs was the M60.

      ‘we’ also didn’t adopt the FAL, which was a superior rifle design to the M14, and discarded the intermediate cartridge idea with the adoption of 7.62 NATO (shortened 30-06, derpalicious) that wouldn’t be reinvigorated until the adoption of 5.56.

      In short. We completely screwed up the GPMG thing until we adopted the MAG/M240 in the 70s. We didn’t learn *anything* from the German MGs and their theory of operation.

      • jcitizen

        I agree with most everything you said. 7.62x51mm NATO may not be an intermediate cartridge, but it has been pounded that it was, into every trainee’s head when describing small arms, in any school I went to. They were probably technically incorrect, but my head still hurts thinking about it. I think too many instructors equated shorten cartridge length to the term “intermediate” when in fact it does not fit the true description.

    • jcitizen

      The MG3 is still one of the best LMGs in the world – only problem was it was expensive to build the roller lock system, and the firing rate was too high. I do love shooting them though; it is like getting hold of one powerful fire hose, and you have to get used to controlling it.

      • Ken

        The heavier bolt in the post-war MG42 derivatives helps bring down the rate of fire.

        • jcitizen

          850 rounds per minute for the MG74 is the lowest I’ve heard of, not sure why it is considered so obsolete, because that rate of fire comes more in line with more modern designs.

          • Ken

            The complaints I’ve heard about are the inability to take a shorter barrel since it’s recoil operated and the barrel not having a carry handle to ensure it doesn’t hit the dirt when you switch it. It can’t be cheap to tool up to manufacture either since the receiver is essentially one piece stamped sheet metal, but I don’t know how it compares to other designs. A lot of militaries still use the MG3, MG74, and MG42/59. so it is still pretty good at doing its job.

            I do love the MG42 though and it’s my dream gun on my shopping list.

          • jcitizen

            At first it seemed like a pain to put the hot barrel in the carrier for cooling; but then I remembered having clumsy experience with the M60, where it seemed the only quick way to set it aside was with the muzzle down and the bipod holding it up – this was before heat resistant barrel carrier bags came into use, and the muzzle got dirty. So the metal barrel carrier ended up better than that at least! It also prevented warping the barrel from uneven cooling. It really was the best system I’d used yet! Plus barrel change was very quick, and you could do it while in prone position. I guess I can’t say enough good things about it overall.

          • Ken

            I’m a big fan of the MG42 barrel change, but I also haven’t had to use it on the Eastern Front. I’ve been told by US troops who have trained with Bundeswehr that you place the carrier (laufschutzer?) in such a place where the hot barrel drops right into it. It really is an elegant system for changing the barrel since it can be easily done from below and we’ll behind the gun.

  • vwVwwVwv

    Sorry TFB I will STFU now. 😉

  • Bal256

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/16/handgun-experiences-from-battlefield-las-vegas/

    Maintenance issues with the PKM:
    lost numerous barrels, firing pins, buffers, bolt carriers and even a piston
    bullet guide sheared off front trunion
    bent receiver

    Complaints with M240
    One lost firing pin
    heavy

  • jcitizen

    The only advantage I can see to that besides joining NATO for standardization, is the weight of the ammo. The PKM always put a smile on my face every time I shot it – I’ve never shot an M240, my unit used M60s in all but armored vehicles; but I would probably rather hump it up and down the mountains because of the ammo.