DIY Home Made 9mm Carbine Pistol

AK Custom took a paintball grip and built a 9mm carbine pistol around it using supplies from a local hardware store.

 

On a Pistol Caliber Carbine group, that I am a member of, there was some discussion about the legality of this build. From the video it looks like it might be an open bolt design.

Cool design but still not legal. So thus far we have a trigger group designed specifically for open bolt operation, we have a solid 1 piece firing pin, and no hammer or striker whatsoever.

We shall see if AK Custom makes a video of it firing. If it does fire from an open bolt, he may have a visit from the ATF soon.

 

Edit: AK Custom responded to my question regarding if he built an open bolt firearm.

no, it is not open bolt. The firing pin catches on a sear which is released when the trigger is pulled with the bolt already being closed. Thanks





Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • DIR911911 .

    what a crappy way to start an article. no introduction to what point you’re trying to make. just post a bunch of quotes and let them figure it out.

    • EdgyTrumpet

      This is TFB baby, we don’t care about journalism, we’re freaks!

    • Phillip Cooper

      You must be new here…

    • Badwolf

      Journalism shmurnalism. Just give a disclaimer at the end, like this “However, this is only an assumption and requires much more research and tangible evidence to definitively confirm”… and you are covered and can say whatever the hell you want.

      • Wow!

        Or how the news also does it today “confidential sources” then you can makeup any conspiracy as fact.

  • Bradley

    So is the entire point of this post to point out why this guy is doing something illegal, and to make it more likely for the wrong person to see it if he is?

    • Herp

      Those were my thoughts as well. Are we the secret police here now? Is this what “see something, say something” looks like?

      • iksnilol

        Screw that, I ain’t no snitch.

    • JSmath

      Not sure wtf Nick was thinking. Didn’t even correctly quote anyone, just seems like taking up space for the sake of taking up space.

    • Rogertc1

      Since when is it illegal. Not in my State.

  • datimes

    I would like to see how reliably this thing shoots.

    • Wow!

      Probably well. Subcaliber home builds are nothing new, and are simple to make. The main weakness would be in the magwell, if there is too much slop the lips of the magazine will stop or rub on the bolt.

  • A.WChuck

    TFB, brought to you by the BATF

  • Can someone clue me in on the open bolt thing? Didn’t know there were restrictions on this.

    • Bradley

      To my understanding any open bolt autoloader is considered a machine gun because it’s too close, or too easily made into one. They don’t have to follow their own definitions.

      • ruinator

        Open bolt- like a WWII sten. The action starts with the bolt open (or back). You pull the trigger, the bolt flies forward, rips a bullet from the magazine, slams it into battery, and fires it….all in one action. Open bolt weapons require even more concentration/ attention. Apparently the cause of many ND during wwii

      • roguetechie

        Exactly!

        Open bolt semi autos were legal until one of the eleventy twelve makers of the MAC series of guns spun off a “second company” which made and sold parts to turn the guns into very illegal configurations in advertisements in the back of gun magazines and soldier of fortune etc.

        So basically thank the group of people who could buy a machine gun for well under $1000 including the stamp, but chose to illegally convert guns illegally.

      • Rogertc1

        Open bolt semi-autos are not illegal to own.

        • Jako

          Pre-82’s are grandfathered, post 82’s are “Machine Guns”. Illegal to manufacture without the appropriate licensing.

    • RocketScientist

      Basically the BATFE has ruled in their infinite wisdom that a semi-automatic classic open-bolt gun is actually a fully automatic machine gun (despire not being fully automatic). The “logic” they use is that since a fixed-firing-pin open bolt semi auto is SOOO easy to convert to full auto, it might as well BE full auto, so they’re going to regulate it as such.

      • gunsandrockets

        Kinda sorta? IFAIK the ATF stopped the manufacture of open bolt semi-autos but they do not regulate the sale or possession of those semi-autos that were already sold before the crack-down.

      • roguetechie

        No…

        This is not an example of ATF being Aholes!

        There were companies literally starting second companies (and third fourth etc) who sold conversion parts through mail order advertisements in the back of magazines…

        Some were so brazen that these second etc companies were legally registered to the same physical address as their ffl was registered to!

        This was a perfect convergence of the greedy, stupid, and short sighted members of the firearms community f***ing it up for everyone!

        • Wow!

          What part of “shall not be infringed” do you not understand? No one ruined it for us except the gun grabbers and those who complied and propagated the illegal laws? The BATFE loves it when you defend them and attack our side for refusing to comply with illegal laws that violate the supreme law.

          • roguetechie

            I am a big proponent of shall not be infringed as a hard line in the sand too…

            When the people of the gun have the right amount of support from congress, pro 2A organizations, and the large gun companies!

            We had none of these groups on our side when all this went down!

            Shall not be infringed as this completely nonnegotiable line in the sand even when we know we don’t have the support at the current juncture is a stupid and counterproductive policy that just hands the antis easy wins.

            You can think what you want, and I have believed exactly the same as you currently believed for most of my life until recently too so it’s not like I don’t understand!

            BUT

            Tactical should be the pro 2A crowd’s approach to not just stopping new infringement, but actually getting the current infringements rolled back one well executed fight at a time…

            NOT

            Just a word that lets companies mark up their products by 100%+ simply by putting the word tactical in the product name!

          • Wow!

            We often say that gun laws don’t work become criminals don’t follow it. Similarly, we should not follow these gun laws that we know they are violating the supreme law. The Antis don’t win anything when we maintain this physical resistance. The law becomes nullified, as it should as the federal and state power only comes from the word of the Constitution, which in turn is of the will of the American people.

            This is the fail-safe. This is not the end all. Along with supporting the grey and black market comes lobbying. We vote, we talk to people, we pay our membership dues, and we educate ourselves on the law (the illegal and legal). Through this over time, voicing our opinions is what changes legislation. This is the same way the left wing operates. They have one section which does the physical work, these are criminals, rioters, and terrorists who assassinate, beat up, and intimidate key people and areas. Then they have the political side who provides the overt “peaceful” and “well meaning” side which is used to change public opinion. The left wing has to actually hurt others through terrorism to get their goals because the law does not support them by it’s current word. In contrast, we are already supported by the law, and we don’t have to convince anyone but ourselves to not comply. We do not have to resort to fighting like they do.

            Basically we do not have to do one or the other, we do it all. We resist politically and physically. It is too risky putting all your eggs in one basket. We can focus on only reverting the federal and state laws, but if we fail, now people are left disarmed. In contrast, if we support the alternative markets as well as lobbying, even if we lose the battle in the courts or in congress, the people are not left vulnerable during the times when it is most important for them to be armed.

            As far as the market, companies can charge whatever they want. If you don’t like the price you go to another company. If there isn’t another company then you participate in entrepreneurship and create your own business that makes the product better and at a cheaper price. This is the essence of capitalism. Boycotts may be useful in shifting buying power, but boycotts and protests never actually produce anything.

          • roguetechie

            Don’t get me wrong, in principle I’m right there with you, however since I’m in the process of slowly but surely getting to a point where I’ll be a licensed firearm manufacturer I’m kind of in a bind.

            Sure I could sacrifice the ability to do what I love for a living to make a point of defying laws we both agree are stupid…

            Or I can do what I can while avoiding actively crossing the line into active and open defiance.

            It sucks, I don’t like it, but I feel like I have some really cool and innovative stuff to offer the people of the gun as a licensed manufacturer.

            We all have to draw our own line in the sand.

          • Wow!

            I agree with that. I’m not advocating for screaming out in front of the BATFE that you are defying them. That is how Waco and Ruby Ridge happened.

            I am also glad to see that you are getting into being a manufacturer yourself. I always advocate to people that if they want to see change in an industry, they have to do it themselves. It is difficult and often through it we realize why thing are the way they are (or hopefully we realize our innovation is what is missing in the market)

          • roguetechie

            Yeah I’m hoping that my stuff is as good as I think it is!

            The only way to find out is to take the leap.

            I am pretty certain that the tool I’ll be putting out first to fund licenses etc will be something people really really like!

          • Wow!

            Smart decision to progressively build your business. You probably already considered this, but I would definitely try marketing your product online in some way by having someone review the product on relevant forums and even having some small time youtubers do reviews. While big time youtubers don’t have the time, small niche communities tend to be more likely to buy a product rather than just think “that is cool”. Some things I personally sold in small custom runs were initially advertised on shotgun news but I quickly realized that very few people actually subscribe to it, much less read it thoroughly enough to notice my ad, I think the internet is a free and very effective platform.

            I am excited for you and I wish the best in your business.

          • roguetechie

            Yeah, I actually had to delay things a little while I rewrite my provisional patent application, but it will make for a fundamentally better basic product which I will be able to offer for a more reasonable price point because I figured out how to make a single basic model that just uses adapters to work with the less prevalent platforms.

            Yes, it’s an AR15 tool.

  • Noishkel

    Nice. I always wanted to give building something like this a try.

  • Paveway

    Not an open bolt firearm, but it is a SBR. 10″ barrel anyone. He better start calling that thing a brace instead of a stock, as he does every single time he talks about it in the video.

    • noob

      It does look like a blade stabilizer rather than a stock

      • int19h

        It doesn’t matter what it looks like. Per ATF, it’s the “intent” that matters.

        • Wow!

          It doesn’t matter what the BATFE thinks, Constitutional law is all that matters which gives Federal and States it’s powers. Where was the BATFE’s power during the Connecticut registrations? Powerless, because the people did not comply with illegal laws. Similarly we should not be doing the BATFE’s fear campaign for them and chastising him, but rather congratulating him on reaffirming his position as a free man in these US of A.

          • int19h

            If the guy gets arrested, are you volunteering to pay his bail and all legal fees, and support his family if he gets convicted?

            If you want to “resist the man” or something like that, why not do it yourself? You can make an impassionate speech about the Constitution from your stand in court, and all that.

          • Wow!

            See this is why gun owners keep losing this political game. We are too scared to even look like we are resisting the BATFE and turn on each other in order to defend our opposition (much like how the liberals treat terrorism). We have a defeatist mindset that we should police each other to not give a “bad impression” rather than realizing that nothing is going to change unless we as individuals start. I have donated many times to other people’s legal cases and I am active in my local politics in preventing new restrictions and removing old restrictions (as many of us do, and we all should be doing).

            And just so you know, you could be 100% legal and still have the BATFE go after you. Any dealer who has been in this game long enough has their own expensive and headache stories about that. When someone/thing like the BATFE or any other criminal breaks the law, you don’t enforce the law by playing on the criminal’s terms.

          • int19h

            It’s not “policing others”. Nobody is telling the guy to stop because he’s wrong. We’re telling him that what he’s doing is considered illegal according to the laws on the books and their standing interpretation, and is likely to cause very significant (as in, years in federal prison) legal troubles for him. Which is entirely correct. This is basic courtesy, not policing – same as warning someone they’re about to seat on a chair with a broken leg.

            If this is a “defeatist mindset”, so be it – but then what is the non-defeatist one? Your only options are to acknowledge the law as it is, and deal with it (while also trying to change it through peaceful means); defy it in a campaign of civil resistance, which of course implies the readiness to accept any legal troubles that come out of it; or armed revolt. Which one of the last two do you propose, and how do you see your personal role in either?

      • AlDeLarge

        The ATF says that touching your shoulder with a brace magically turns it into a stock; Imagine what they believe about actually calling it a “stock,” on a “carbine.”

    • Squirrel

      I was thinking the same thing. Buying a manufactured part that has approval letters versus building your own item which skates the legal/illegal line seems like a great way to wind up being charged.

  • William Elliott

    sounds like a similar system to the roller delayed Calico M950 family. Bolt and firing pin/striker recoil as one, but the bolt slams home on its own, leaving the striker, hung up on the sear. Pull the trigger, drops the striker, and repeat. A simple, yet effective system

    • Sledgecrowbar

      Sounds Glocky. Which is to say, striker-fired pistols in general. Which isn’t bad, it’s a good compromise and has the advantages of a blowback, like simplicity and reliable operation because of the inertia of the bolt, and the advantages of a striker, which right now all I can think of is legality, but it also is less likely to slamfire if you drop it on the ground and the heavy bolt is what has to be kept in place.

  • kalashnikev

    Why is this not “BREAKING?”

    • wetcorps

      Not enough SPARTAN TACTICAL OPERATOR SPECIAL FORCE MOLON LABE and AR lowers I guess.

    • Wow!

      Lots of people have built SMGs and subcaliber carbines from scratch. Rifles built from scratch is nothing new, heck even grenade launchers and belt feds have been made at home, as well as recoil-less launchers and mortars and mini guns. Visit weaponguild or homegunsmith forums to see how futile gun control really is.

  • jerry young

    Ok what gives is it a carbine or a pistol? it can’t be both either it’s a carbine caliber pistol or a pistol caliber carbine, I guess when you build your own guns from scratch you can call them whatever you wish.

  • Ryfyle

    Honestly, not a bad deal but I want something Gas Operated for my peestol carbean.

  • TexasRedNeck

    Well if the ATF didn’t know about it before they sure do now, bet they’re laughing their a$$’s off at how dumb some people are They don’t have to go out looking for people breaking the law they can just show up here and take their pick which one to bust first.
    Wouldn’t surprise me if they are the ones that created this site.

  • Niguana

    looks like a piece of s

  • PaC SGM (R)

    Sad to say but this wouldn’t have been illegal a few generations back for some of us.

    • Wow!

      It only became like this because we let it. I applaud this man for his build, regardless of how the anti-Americans view it.

  • JoelM

    He’s using a fire control group similar to the semi auto tec 9 then.

  • Donald Darr

    A pistol with a folding stock is still illegal. BATF doesn’t like you playing with their rules!

    • Wow!

      Not true. A pistol with a folding BRACE is legal even by BATFE definitions. Stop doing the BATFE’s fear campaign for them.

      • Donald Darr

        Is true! If he’s calling it a STOCK during the whole video, what the hell do you think BATF is going to call it?!

        • Wow!

          So if he says it is legal in his video then it is legal in the BATFE’s eyes? Don’t do the BATFEs work for them.

  • Donald Darr

    Hey everyone! According to “Wow!” we’re supposed to do whatever we like and build whatever we want. Open bolt? No problem! Folding stock on a weapon with a barrel shorter than 16 inches? No problem! Hell, go ahead and build a machine gun! As far as “Wow!” is concerned, going up against BATF makes you an American. All I know is going against them will cause me to be broke (after paying 10’s of thousands in fines), jobless (can’t work from prison) and homeless (can’t pay rent without job)!