Czech Small Arms Introduces vz.15 Ultra Low Bore Axis Pistol

Image source: CzechPoint

Is 2017 the Year of the Low Bore Axis? It seems like it just might be! Amid a sea of other pistols advertised as having low bore axes (some of which do deliver on that claim), the Jablunka-based Czech Small Arms has introduced a new pistol with about as low a bore axis as is possible on a gun with the magazine feeding through the grip. The new handgun was introduced at IWA 2017, and is called the vz.15. CzechPoint posted photos of the new gun on their Facebook page:

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Manticore Arms and Polish guns magazine Broń. Amunicja also posted photos to their Facebook feeds:

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Polenar Tactical took a photo of the new pistol which illustrates one of its more unusual features of the guns at the show: Full length polymer frame rails! Commenters on the Polenar Tactical Facebook page expressed their doubt that polymer frame rails could really be durable enough for steady use, but a comment by PT said that CSA reps had explained the polymer frame rails were for the prototypes only. This makes sense, but with CzechPoint quoting a ship date in Fall 2017, it seems fairly late in the game to still be using prototype frames with polymer rails!

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CzechPoint said the sales price of the vz.15 would be “approximately $400”, making the vz.15 look like it could be a pretty strong offering when compared to similar low bore axis firearms like the Strike One. CSA also said the new pistol will use Mec-Gar XD 18 round magazines.



Nathaniel F

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He is also the author of the original web serial Heartblood, which is being updated and edited regularly. He can be reached via email at [email protected]


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  • Nolan

    Low price, low bore axis, uses already existing xd magazines/sights… Tempting, Very tempting!

    • thedonn007

      Sign me up

    • snmp

      EAA Tanfoglio Witness is around 300USD (Polymer CZ75B clone made in Italy)

      • Mook

        I love my EAA Witness in 9MM and yes it was dirt cheap.

  • m-dasher

    sooooooo…….the Stryk pistol….?

    • Bal256

      At half the price

      • ostiariusalpha

        Minus the pig snout.

  • mrpotatocat

    Yea for $400 Ill pick one up.

  • Phillip Cooper

    If you listen very closely, I think you can hear the Glock lawyers sharpening their pencils…

    • valorius

      I think that sound is them dressing their leg wounds. 😉

      • NoYouCantHaz

        Not like anyone has ever shot themselves with a 1911….It’s always carbon-based malfunction. If you’re so skittish about shooting yourself in the leg, don’t holster up.

        • Shankbone

          Fanboy, you misread Valorius’ comment.

          • NoYouStillCannotHaz

            Enlighten me on all the “leg wound” analogies in reference to one company cutting into the sales shares of another, or at least making one firearm somewhat resemble another. Then I’ll explain to you how I misread such a poorly-worded statement on its face as a poor attempt at humor.

            Also, it’s “Sir Fanboy” to you. Even if I don’t carry Glock as my EDC.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            “I don’t carry Glock as my EDC”

            You irresponsible bastard. How dare you?

        • n0truscotsman

          Yeah, its always with glocks 0__o

          • valorius

            I love that video. 😀

            The 1911 is a rather unforgiving design in it’s own right. Sort of like an early Porsche 911 Turbo. Super fast, just don’t make a mistake, or you’re going rear end first into a wall. 🙂

        • valorius

          I’m skittish about accidentally discharging my fire extinguisher in my race car too, seeing as how i am human, and therefore fallable- that’s why it has a safety pin on it.

          Ever notice every single fire extinquisher made has a safety on it?

          • n0truscotsman

            *Double facepalm*

            thats because fire extinguishers dont have trigger guards and have giant “triggers”, being part of the handle.

            https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1llRhIpXXXXcUXpXXq6xXFXXXZ/dcp-powder-fire-extinguisher-parts.jpg

            This assclownery with the comments here is really starting to get old. If I were the moderator, the ban hammer wouldve been out already, covered in blood.

          • valorius

            Sorry dude, I, as well as many professional entities, including the US Army, place great value on a manual safety.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Army places a great value on an external safety for poorly trained users who won’t use pistols often and most likely proactively.

            Note that the units which actually use pistols significantly in combat are equipped with Glocks and Sigs w/o any external safety.

            Agencies favor external safeties in order to reduce risk via a lowest common denominator strategy.

          • valorius

            Sig has a long heavy DA trigger.

            Attention to detail about my comment: “A light, short trigger pull with no manual safety.”

          • Ced Truz

            But they do have a safety pin.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Safeties are appropriate on race guns and other range toys.

          • valorius

            Safeties are far more important on machines that will be used under extreme stress.

            Like, for instance, the fire control panel of a fighter plane.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            All of which are proactive use tools whose manual of arms is irrelevant to a reactive defensive tool.

          • valorius

            A soldier’s rifle is a reactive defensive tool my friend.

            The US Army has gotten on just fine since 1911 with a variety of pistols that feature a manual safety. Not sure how the Sig228/M11 slipped through there, but at least it’s a genuine DAO design, which in and of itself confers a degree of safety.

  • nate

    I think that this is what the CZ P10 should have looked like. and also this pistol sort of reminds me of the Hudson H9 sorta, looks good

    • Bradley

      Yes, I was pumped when I heard cz was making a striker fired pistol until I realized it isn’t made like a cz at all.

      • The move away from the internal slide in P10 was a bit weird, especially since it’s found in the P07 and P09.

        • De Facto

          Responding to the complaints that the traditional CZ slide doesn’t provide sufficient purchase, it makes sense with a gun going after Glock’s market share, and not the CZ crowd. The rest of us will just hope that they eventually produce a striker fired P09 😉

    • BaconLovingInfidel

      That H9 is fugly. This looks like a handsome Glock-Stryk love child.

      Now, where’s the G19-sized model?

      • ostiariusalpha

        Neither the Glock nor the Stryk are “handsome” in any way, shape, or form. Did you hit your head on something?

        • BaconLovingInfidel

          Yes.

  • Daniel

    For that price I’ll pick up a couple. Great console gun in the truck. I guess I need to sell my Strike while I can.

  • MPWS

    There is a limit to this “low bore” fad. If you look at you hand you will notice that Web-Thumb-Index finger are at same level. What then is use of space above if your index finger is one who pulls trigger?
    So therefor, it is top of trigger opening which decides how “low” is your grip.

    • ostiariusalpha

      Sure, insofar as you want the magazine behind the trigger to minimize overall length. Setting concealment and maneuverability aside, I imagine a compact pistol version of the KRISS Vector could be made.

    • Giolli Joker

      The Chiappa Rhino already places the axis below.

    • iksnilol

      Where’s the problem? Having the bore under the trigger would be ideal.

      • valorius

        Doesn’t the boberg have that?

        • iksnilol

          Nah, but some Russian target pistols did. Won gold in fast fire. Became quickly banned because of butthurt competitiors from other countries.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Margolin was a truly amazing designer. It must be easier to innovate when you literally can’t see the incredulous faces of the talentless hacks you work with.

          • iksnilol

            Indeed, lucky for them he was blind. I can imagine he wouldn’t mind smacking somebody upside the head (especially those responsible for tailoring the rules to specifically ban his gun).

    • Edeco

      Eh, I think one can grip with the web above the trigger. The fingers will be tilted down, so a trigger that’s purely vertical may not feel great. But if a gun is designed ground up to be gripped high I think it’s fine.

      • ostiariusalpha

        This gun already does that.

    • No, that’s not how this works. I have a Steyr L9A1 with a similar arrangement. You just tilt your hand down.

      It feels very natural, actually. I shoot very accurately and quickly with that handgun.

    • valorius

      I think this whole low bore axis thing is a massively overblown fad.

      If you put a Sig P228 or your pick of low bore axis pistol in the hands of a Jerry Miculek i suspect his times would be virtually identical.

      He could probably outshoot anyone that posts on this forum using their handgun of choice with a box stock Ruger LCP.

      • AD

        I don’t think that argument is a very strong one for the general public. “Probably the best pistol shooter in the world will probably do about as well with or without X feature” doesn’t really mean much to the average shooter since we are nowhere near that level of skill, so features that don’t mean much to him may very well mean a lot to the rest of us.

        • BaconLovingInfidel

          I suspect I couldn’t take Michael Jordan in a game of one on one whether I stuck with layups or jumpers (despite my 6″ vertical).

        • valorius

          I suspect it would make even less difference for an average shooter than it would for an elite shooter.

      • roguetechie

        It’s not a fad at all, it’s biomechanics & ergonomics.

        It’s also one of the pieces of “low hanging fruit” in the pistol world.

        Putting it ever so basically the $ cost to do the R&D etc to bring a low bore axis pistol to market is one of the cheapest ways to improve the pistol class weapon left out there.

        Also, you should check out the Colt Scamp article here on tfb then read the scamp article on small arms review’s site.

        Finally, going low bore axis including the adjustments to ergos and pistol to shooter interface is one of the better ways to help shooters get a little closer to being as accurate as their gun. Because as of the current era, the biggest issue with pistol accuracy is us the shooters!

        Also, there’s a reason why Olympics style 22 pistols have fiendishly low bore axes.

        • valorius

          I could shoot my HK P7 and Sig P228 equally well. I really didn’t see any difference. Just my personal experience, but it is what it is.

          • roguetechie

            I’ve done some experiments with extremely low bore axis pistols and it really does change the dynamics greatly, at least for me it does.

            If I ever get the time to do it I’ve actually been planning to build both versions of a pistol design I found.

            One version folds kinda like the NAA 22 mag mini revolvers and uses hot swapped tube magazines OVER the bbl.

            The other will end up using slightly modified magpul glockazines and or the MECGAR 18 rounders, have a bbl close to G17 length , downward ejection through the grip (the tube feed will do the same), and be super compact.

            By super compact I mean 17 or 18 plus one and ppk / makarov size while having a true full length barrel.

            I personally feel like a gun that has all the advantages of a full size pistol, with a low bore axis that allows ultrafast follow up shots, and yet will function great as a boot gun pocket gun or even in a suit jacket pocket

          • valorius

            Make sure you post pix of that. 😀

  • 48conkli

    I like how their are about 4 different guns out or coming out that have claimed to be lowest bore axis. A nice feature but none of them have been runaway successes *cough* Strike one *cough*

    • valorius

      It’s an HK. The extra price difference is the HK tax.

    • Brad Nims

      I absolutely agree. Whenever I see a standard model polymer handgun that costs more than 450-500 I just can’t bring myself to dish out that kind of cash. Isn’t the entire point of the polymer frame to save some money?

      • john huscio

        More about lightening the weapon and making it more carryable.

      • LGonDISQUS

        FN FNX, 45, Etc…

      • Colonel K

        It does save money – for the manufacturer. Whether or not they pass that savings along to the consumer is another matter. Boutique makers and big name manufacturers alike sometimes can’t resit jacking up the price for the pony emblem or German or Swiss ancestry.

    • noob

      The only logical thing to do is sell a $350 locked breech (maybe rotating barrel) upward ejecting handgun where your trigger finger is above the slide the slide and barrel are in a non-reciprocating slimline housing you hold like a syringe and the recoil pushes straight back into your palm.

      Optics ready of course, with a red dot forward of the ejection port maybe midway towards the muzzle.

      Think of a t-handled hex wrench or the t shaped handle of a walking stick.

      Some olympic airguns have their barrel aligned this way.

    • Scott G. Jenkins

      I agree. I have quite a few hand guns containing some amount of Polymer from the FNX-45 Tactical all the way down to the cheapest (Canik TP9 SF Desert) $360.00. All I can say is , they are going to have to go along way before they will compare with the CANIK. I take care of all my guns, but I have been purposely ruff with it. Use it as a throw in the cab truck gun. Have put a 1000 rds of crap through it, and never even wiped it off. It runs like a Turkish goat!

  • valorius

    Why is everyone trying to be a glock?

    If i wanted a Glock, i’d just buy a glock. BOOM! OwwwWWW! MY LEG!

    • 10%Rule

      KYFFOOTFT

      • SamusAranSoFarAway

        Is that shorthand for Keep Your F$&#ing Finger Off Of The F$&%ing Trigger?

    • Bradley

      How could this be any less like a glock and still be a polymer, striker fired pistol?

    • M-dasher

      Oooor you could actually learn to use your sidearm and not rely on a safety to not shoot yourself with it

      • valorius

        You’d think, yet there is a legion of otherwise competent people who now walk with a limp because of their affinity for Glock.

        • BaconLovingInfidel

          Rubbish. Very few AD/ND injuries all told are reported in the US annually, and all of them due to negligent trigger discipline.

    • billyoblivion

      > Why is everyone trying to be a glock?

      Because polymer frames are cheaper to produce than steel/allow frames by a significant margin, and stricker fired pistols are easy to make in the style of a “glock safe action” system–which again is cheaper to make a consistent, acceptable (but not GREAT) trigger.

      Police and military buyers LIKE them because they’re more than good enough at much lower price points.

      • valorius

        The military likes Glock? The Rangers (and probably a few other small units) bought some, but besides that, they’ve been met a very cold shoulder from the US Military.

        There are modern inexpensive pistols that don’t look like a glock. It can be done.

        • billyoblivion

          The P320 is Sig’s version of a Glock.

          Oh, you’re hung up on appearance.

          Never mind.

          • valorius

            Glock fan boys- just stop.

        • BaconLovingInfidel

          All of the SMUs run Glocks, all 4 branches and tier 1s. They use pistols more than all of the MPs and regular infantry combined.

          Lack of modularity was Glock’s only liability in the most recent service pistol determinations.

          • valorius

            Do they ‘run’ them?

            Go away.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Run/operate/use/deploy…whatever idiot.

          • valorius

            LOL…sorry man, gotta ding ya for the tactical jargon. 😉

          • valorius

            MP’s use pistols more than almost everyone else combined, btw. Every second an MP is on guard or patrol duty he/she’s got a loaded firearm on his/her hip.

            And how do you know if being non modular was Glock’s only liability? Did the program officer tell you that? Or are you just being a fan boi?

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            “MP’s use pistols more than almost everyone else combined, btw. ”

            BS

          • valorius

            It’s a fact.

  • valorius

    Another gun with a short, light trigger and no manual safety. Joy.

    • 10%Rule

      Has a trigger safety. Big boy rules here hawss.

      • iksnilol

        Trigger safety = to be able to pull the trigger, you have to pull the trigger.

        Might as well not have a safety then IMO.

        • M-dasher

          Or you can not be a moron and pull the trigger when its nit pointed at somwthing you want to shoot

          • int19h

            You know, in software engineering, this gets repeated all the time. “Problem exists between chair and keyboard”, “Unix is user-friendly, it’s just picky about who its friends are” etc.

            Funny thing though. If you look at products that are actually successful in the market, they’re those that don’t try to pretend that people don’t occasionally act stupidly or negligently, but instead design around that possibility, and try to mitigate it.

            Humans make mistakes. A design that accommodates that is better than the one that does not.

          • billyoblivion

            And generally those products are used by the common man to do common man things.

            And, despite the safeties and etc. they STILL manage to get in car crashes, delete entire filesystems worth of data, shoot themselves in the foot, hand, or friends chest.

            I’ve made my living off Unix for 2 decades and that oh my gawd it’s dangerous CLI (aka Cygwin) is the second thing I install on a Windows machine when I am given one.

            Oh, and I carry Glocks AIWB, run AKs by flipping the safety off at the beginning of the course of fire and leaving it there, and don’t use hand sanitizer all that often.

          • int19h

            Of course they do. It’s a question of probabilities. Do people injure themselves or others more often with handguns without manual safeties? I don’t know if there’s a solid study on that, but anecdotally, it does seem to be the case – every time you read a news story about a cop shooting himself in the foot, it’s a Glock.

          • That’s probably more a function of departments not having the funding for minimally adequate firearms training, amplified by Glock’s borderline illegal marketing strategy in the ’80s which made Glocks vastly more likely to be the handgun an incompetent and poorly-trained LEO shoots himself with.

          • int19h

            You think the much lighter trigger, compared to those .38 Special revolvers they used to have before the age of the Wonder Nines, doesn’t have anything to do with it?

          • I sincerely doubt that an equipment standard from forty years ago has much of an impact on officers who were in large part not even born then, yes. Lack of training is the primary cause of negligent discharges, and Glock’s market saturation means they’re more likely to be the pistol that gets negligently discharged.

            Morons in uniform shot themselves with Combat Masterpieces too, we just didn’t hear about it as much because the internet hadn’t happened yet.

          • int19h

            I didn’t mean to imply that it’s the same officers using either. But I do think that there is still a difference. No matter what, physics is physics. A trigger that is harder to pull in general is harder to negligently pull while unholstering.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            More ADs occur while holstering than drawing.

          • valorius

            His point still stands.

          • n0truscotsman

            It was piss poor firearm handling habits that were to blame. Period.

            users of revolvers often got into the habit of ‘taking up the slack’ on triggers, which you cannot do with a glock to the same degree. Hence, negligent discharges.

            If they followed the 4 rules of gun safety, then those NDs wouldn’t have happened.

            All this bullshitting around with talking about designs, etc is just that.

          • valorius

            People don’t always follow the four rules of gun safety, or there wouldn’t be any ND’s at all. They never have, and they never will.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            A lighter trigger doesn’t present additional risk in the absence of poor trigger or trigger guard/holstering discipline.

          • valorius

            How about when your drawstring is blown into your holster by the wind (or inadvertent movement) while your gun is drawn, and the gun is discharged on re-holstering. which has happened to a cop- on video.

            That’s just not a feature i’m looking for.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            One should never holster carelessly. Take your time and look it into the holster.

          • valorius

            Under stress, at 2 am, after just engaging in a high speed chase, or a foot chase with a perp, etc, etc….those simple little common sense things we all take for granted often fall by the way side. It’s human nature, and virtually unavoidable.

            The glock does it’s job, that’s for sure but it is extremely unforgiving of simple/common handling errors. That’s just not what i’m looking for in a carry gun. I prefer a DAO for concealed carry duty use, and a DAO with a manual safety for open carry duty use.

          • valorius

            So given the fact that said dep’ts dont have the funding for adequate training, the Glock is a terrible choice for them, is how i look at it.

            The Glock is a very unforgiving design in moments of stupidity.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Most cops carry Glocks or M&Ps or Sigs w/o a manual safety, so most LEO ADs wil necessarily occur in the absence of a manual safety, but I’ve witnessed numerous ADs from all sorts of manual safety pistols.

          • valorius

            Sig has a long DA trigger pull, and many M&Ps do have manual safeties.

          • roguetechie

            Speaking as someone whose done high school and junior high shop class, tech support, and mechanic / body work I can attest to it ALWAYS being the machine’s or someone else’s fault whenever something has went wrong amongst the majority of society…

            I can also say that it’s refreshing beyond belief to ask what happened and have the person sheepishly and with an embarrassed laugh say I F***ED UP

          • billyoblivion

            Did Technical Support for a while a couple times. And yeah.

            OTOH, when you’re deliberately selling to the LCD your software SHOULD prevent someone from aiming the shotgun at their feet and pulling the trigger.

            I just don’t like that sort of software because I’m not interested in doing the sorts of things that software allows you to do.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Some people benefit greatly from the most idiot-proof design.

            If you’re not going to train diligently and maintain rigorous trigger discipline, you should have a manual safety (or two) AND a long, heavy double action trigger.

            Fortunately, the thriving US firearms market (Obama boom!) allows for a great variety of option to satisfy everyone’s needs and wants.

          • valorius

            It’s interesting, because in it’s own way, the Glock is the ultimate idiot proof design, designed for the lowest common denominator.

            Cant’ handle a manual safety? Take it off.
            Can’t be bothered to train with a DA trigger? We’ll “fix” that too, and put a short light trigger on it.

            Now a 2yo or a monkey can fire your sidearm. It’s idiot proof…..

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            “Can’t handle a manual safety? Take it off.

            Can’t be bothered to train with a DA trigger? We’ll “fix” that too, and put a short light trigger on it.”

            Those are improvements. Anyone will shoot accurately quicker with a short reset striker fired trigger than a DA trigger. Put yourself to the clock.

            Even with training and experience, thumb safeties get missed under duress. I’ve watched multiple highly trained professionals and non-professionals miss their safety in force on force drills.Plenty of people who choose a point and fire pistol are deeply experienced with 1911s or other manual safety pistols.

          • valorius

            My pistol is a self defense tool, i’m not trying to win a gold medal.

            The single most important feature to me in a gun i’ll be carrying every hour of the day and (hopefully) never actually be using, is that it does me no harm, either inadvertently, or through some momentary brain fart i might have at 3 o’clock in the morning after a night at the tavern, etc, so forth.

            I own a Ruger LCP and a LCP professional. The trigger on the professional is sensational- half the pull distance and about half the pull weight of my 1st gen LCP.

            I carry the 1st gen because it is literally almost impossible to get that thing to go off unless you are deliberately trying to do so. I’ve been carrying this same pistol for about 6 years and have fired probably 3000 rds through it. I am very smooth and accurate with it, because i’m intimately familiar with it.

          • iksnilol

            I’m just saying if you’re calling that a safety you might as well not have one and focus on improving the trigger with that dongle out of the way.

          • valorius

            you could also not be a moron and drive your motorcycle too fast in sharp curve and crash.

            People are pretty well known for being morons on occasion.

        • I am curious how often that little dongle is helpful, always struck me as a poor design as the trigger safety bar runs the full length of the trigger, so the vast majority of things entering the trigger guard and touching the trigger would also hit the trigger safety bar.

          • Shwa

            It’s purpose is a drop safety. It prevents inertia from “pulling the trigger” when dropped. There are some videos out there of a Taurus lacking this feature and you can clearly see the trigger moving to the rear and discharging a round when dropped.

          • valorius

            Doesn’t a passive firing pin safety accomplish the same thing?

          • Shwa

            To the best of my knowledge, no. A passive firing pin safety is disengaged when the trigger is pulled. During a drop, inertia can causes the trigger to be “pulled”. Effectively doing the same thing as pulling the trigger yourself. The trigger safety prevents the trigger from moving rearward Any rearward motion of the trigger would begin to disengage the firing pin safety.
            The firing pin safety prevents the striker from moving forward during a drop. That’s why you see these two safeties used in conjunction a lot. They each serve a different purpose.

          • valorius

            I’m pretty sure a passive firing pin safety tilts the firing pin out of the firing pin channel, preventing a drop discharge from occurring. That’s what they’re designed for.

          • valorius

            Agree.

      • valorius

        I knew a dude that used to say “This is my safety” while wiggling his trigger finger. Until he blew his brains out with his glock on accident.

        Now he doesn’t say much of anything.

        • salty

          tell me more., was he playing russian roulette, or what happened? i say that all the time and now you sending me bad waves moriarty….

          • valorius

            Couldn’t tell you, since he blew his face off he was unable to tell his tale. However, since the cleaning table was said to be sitting on the kitchen table, it is believed he was in the process of cleaning it.

          • John Yossarian

            Sounds like human evolution to me – Survival of the fittest?

            More of a reason to produce striker-fired weapons.

          • billyoblivion

            Is it just me or have we gotten seriously weaker in the common sense area since airbags, car seats and mandatory seatbelt laws?

          • valorius

            It’s possible to make a striker fired handgun that doesn’t need it’s trigger pulled to disassemble. Gun designers have been doing it for about a century. It’s a massive design flaw in the glock design.

          • I too have known people who laid out their cleaning kit before checking out, so their family could collect on their life insurance and homeowner’s insurance.

          • ostiariusalpha

            Same here.

          • valorius

            Well, that’s your theory at least. Hard to interview the dead, like i said.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Doesn’t sound like the safety was in any way relevant.

            Cleaning a loaded gun is a bad idea.

          • valorius

            The point was that “this is my safety” wasn’t his safety.

            Hubris, you see.

        • n0truscotsman

          violation of the 4 rules of gun safety.

          Its not that hard to figure out.

          • valorius

            It was for him.

    • M-dasher

      Dont pull the trigger when you dont mean to and its not an issue

      • valorius

        Sort of like “don’t drive off the road when you don’t mean to, and you wont need airbags” ?

        • billyoblivion

          The airbags in my car are to protect me against your bad decisions.

          • valorius

            The manual safety on a police officers hand gun protect him from a felons actions.

            Approx. 10% of all police shot in the line of duty are killed by their own handgun.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            “Approx. 10% of all police shot in the line of duty are killed by their own handgun.”‘

            Which is most often a separate training/tactics issue.

            Of course actual reports of recovering a firearm due to an assailant being unable to fire it or a LEO not getting shot because a perp couldn’t disengage the safety are exceedingly rare.

            A manual safety is more likely to be mishandled on the draw than taken by disarm and then failed to deactivate. Every instructor or student with significant force on force experience knows that even the most experienced users regularly miss thumb safeties under duress. The less skill and experience the greater the likelihood of mishandling the safety, and the overwhelming majority of LEOs are non-gun people who don’t train regularly much less sufficiently.

          • valorius

            Manual safeties save lives. Massaad Ayoob has written many articles on this subject.
            I know you glock groupies don’t think so, or you’d never, ever choose that model.

            Many of us do believe so (Including the US Army), which is why there are so many models of firearms sold with manual safeties.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            “Manual safeties save lives. Massaad Ayoob has written many articles on this subject.”

            They also get people killed.

          • valorius

            I’ve yet to see evidence of that ever happening.

          • valorius

            If a perp gets your glock, you’re dead. 100%….no way around it. Dead.
            If a perp gets your pistol with a manual safety, maybe there’s a 10-20% chance in the time he’s fiddling with it, you get out of the line of fire, or get it back.

            This is why Massaad Ayoob (and many police dept’s across America who still use them) is/are such a strong proponent of safeties.

            If you don’t want one, don’t use one….The US Army wanted one, and for very good reason.

        • Other people are slightly less likely to try to pull the trigger on your handgun for you than they are to drift into your lane because their girlfriend just texted them about their homework.

          • valorius

            About 10% of all cops killed in the line of duty are shot with their own guns.

          • And around 42% are killed in vehicle crashes; the point still stands.

            If the situation has degraded enough that the bad guy has the good guy’s gun, an accuracy-destroying half ton Noo Yawk Triggah isn’t going to stop him from pulling it, and in the mean time NYPD is kindasorta famous for hitting everyone in the area but the bad guy.

          • valorius

            A manual safety HAS stopped the bad guy from firing the gun.

          • And how many times has a manual safety also stopped a panicked good guy from firing a gun? Anecdotal and all that, but my grandfather served in Korea and used to tell a story about his position getting overrun and being so wound up that he pulled the trigger a dozen times on a pair of Norks who jumped over the barricade and ran past him before he realized he hadn’t taken the thumb safety off his 1911.

            Handicapped equipment is never a substitute for training.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            When I was in elementary school, a guy in a nearby neighborhood confronted some car thieves or auto breakers in the middle of the night. He was an advocate of Israeli carry, and his corpse was found by his wife in his driveway with his pistol in his hand and nothing in the chamber.

          • valorius

            Your grandpa was alive to tell you the story. Obviously the safety didn’t hurt his cause.

            Did his rifle have a safety? The squad BAR have a safety? The company machineguns have safeties? Did the fighters flying top cover have safeties on their bomb release panels? Did the US navy ships off shore have safeties on their gun batteries?
            The answer is yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

            Equipment for the lowest common denominator is no substitute for training either.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Rifles need a safety because you carry them slung. The manual of arms is entirely different and irrelevant to a properly holstered pistol.

          • valorius

            Even if you carried a rifle at port arms the entire time, it should have a manual safety. Ask the french sniper that just shot two people in a crowed moving to a new position.

    • int19h

      It’s what the market demands, so that’s what it’s going to get.

      There’s always CZ 75 for the rest of us.

      Or FNS if you want a striker fired gun with a proper safety.

      • valorius

        I’m not a big fan of striker fired guns in general, though the HK P7 is my all time favorite handgun.

        • billyoblivion

          Which, of course, doesn’t have a safety. Has a cocker/de-cocker.

          • Slide-mounted decockers are the stupidest thing that was ever installed on a handgun, including rail-mounted TruckNutz and the Jennings company logo.

          • valorius

            It has the ultimate manual safety.

      • Smith & Wesson will be happy to sell you an M&P with a Massachusetts Idiot Switch installed if you really want one.

        Apex will then be happy to sell you a good trigger for it.

    • John Yossarian

      Buy a Kydex holster and “Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on the target” – Simple enough to live by, and to make the other bastard die for his.

      • valorius

        Kydex? Ewwww!

        I’ll keep my finger off the trigger like the cop whose drawstring blew into his holster and set his glock off when he reholstered it- on camera.

    • Not a fan of well-tuned revolvers, eh?

      • valorius

        “short, light trigger.”

        I most certainly would never, ever buy a revolver that was always in a state that had a light, short pull. Nor would i carry a revolver in a cocked state.

    • DonDrapersAcidTrip

      Jesus how many times are you going to reword the same boneheaded comments. am I going to scroll down and see more clueless gun forum old timer cliches about “plastic guns”

      • valorius

        “As many as i want,” He answered the dude with acid trip in his screen name.

        PS: I like polymer guns.

        • DonDrapersAcidTrip

          those kids and their wacky drugs! glocks are bad and people are shooting themselves with them en masse!

          jesus you never stop with useless obsolete old man schtick

          • valorius

            Sorry dude, but the term “Glock leg” didn’t fall from the sky.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            No I’m sure it fell out of the mouths of old men on gun forums or behind counters at gun stores who dutifully repeat gun owner almanac “wisdom” because repeating gun trivia to people makes them feel impressive

          • valorius

            And young men think they know everything.

            All those news stories i’ve read over the years of cops shooting themselves, others, and their kids shooting themselves and others with Glocks were apparently fake gun store tales.

            Who knew.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Yeah I imagine when you spend all day reading gun magazine articles and nothing else reality gets distorted

          • valorius

            Video. On. You. Tube. Bud.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Do you reblog memes about New Gang Intiation Tactics too lmao

          • valorius

            Did you see the story breaking out of France where an elite sniper ND’d his sniper rifle into a crowd?

            Keep that manual safety on bud.

          • valorius

            Word of advice: Lay off the acid, it’s affecting your judgement.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            My advice is try to spend more than 2 seconds on a single thought before wasting everyones time with the same tired ass ignorant gun cliches from 2004

          • valorius

            Don’t read my comments. Pretty simple.

          • DonDrapersAcidTrip

            Not so simple when you feel the need to inject your early 2000 gun forum wisdom every five comments on an article

          • valorius

            Early 2000 gun forum wisdom….LMAO.

          • BaconLovingInfidel

            Get off my lawn, you damn hippy!

            —–Eric Cartman

  • No one

    At that price, I’m sure to at least give it a try, was going to get a CZ P10C aswell anyway, guess this is the year of the Czech for me.

  • n0truscotsman

    Itll be an XD that actually works. Without the useless grip safety.

    • BaconLovingInfidel

      ***Edit***

      XDs have a kind of high bore axis, but you’re right.

      I was thinking of the XDm when I made the “not pimp styled enough” comment.

  • Hoplopfheil

    An Arsenal Strike One for $400? I’ll take eight!

    Ahhh, now I’m becoming a crafty consumer!

    • ostiariusalpha

      This thing is less a Stryk, and more of a striker fired version of the PL-14 Lebedev that Kalashnikov Concern came out with a year and a half ago. Both of them use a shallow cam tilting action, plus they and the Stryk use the Steyr M9/L9 trick of raising the tang of the frame above the trigger well to quasi-lower the bore axis a touch more; though it forces your wrist to unlock a bit and tilt forward. Which is something that the Hudson H9 doesn’t have to resort to.

      • BaconLovingInfidel

        Wow, I didn’t realize those were two different pistols until now. I had conflated them into one.

  • gunsandrockets

    rotating or tilting barrel?

    • ostiariusalpha

      Tilting.

  • DR.NUMBERS

    “Full polymer rails provide greater surface contact area and this vz. 15
    model does not use steel rail inserts. CSA is not the first to use all
    polymer rail construction. Ruger P95 and P97 series of pistols used
    polymer rails without steel inserts for years with success.”

    Their latest comments seem to confirm that polymer rails will be on the production versions. That’s a killer for me. I normally prefer alloy/steel frames, but if its going to be polymer, it should have steel rails/inserts. The Grand Power has an ideal compromise, polymer frame with substantial steel insert..

    • That’s really weird. Okeedokee.

    • Is there actually steel backing up the rail on a hognosed Glock, or am I just missing something?

      • Glocks have steel rails.

        • Okay, what I was missing is that they’re talking about slide rails, not Picatinny accessory rails.

          Carry on.

  • Guy Slack

    Jeez… could we maybe get an author willing to host actual photos instead of just linking to FB…

    • The Facebook posts were successfully embedded when I wrote the thing, not sure what went wrong since.

      • If I might hazard a guess, it may very well be that Facebook just sucks real bad.

  • john huscio

    Looks decent. Probably as good or better than canik as far as quality goes. Takes common mags, grip looks like it’s a mile long. The bore axis looks nice and low, but if the APX is the softest shooting modern polymer pistol like a few have said, I’ll probably be earmarking my gun money for that.

  • Polaritypictures Ken

    I thought the hudson was the lowest.

  • Harry’s Holsters

    Looks solid but I’m skeptical. I’ve heard mixed reviews about the Strike from people who have shot it. No free lunch. If it is a good gun and comes with a decent set of sights I can see myself buying one and playing around with it but I’ll be a late adaptor. I don’t know why They aren’t trying to compete in the glock 19 size range. I’d rather see that sized handgun than a 18+1.

  • USMC03Vet

    What if I told you jet fuel doesn’t melt polymers rails?

    • billyoblivion

      if you drop it in jet fuel, or if you light several hundred gallons on fire, get 70 foot flames whipping in a circle and THEN put the rails about 3 feet above where the jet fuel is liquid?

      (USMC 7051 vet).

    • BaconLovingInfidel

      What about 7 WTC?

  • Klaus Von Schmitto

    Ah I remember it so well. 2017, the year of stitches.

  • Vitor Roma

    For me, the main question is: does the barrel tilt or it’s like the stryk B that doesnt require a tilt?

    • AFAIK it’s a tilting barrel.

      • Vitor Roma

        Meh. So the Stryk B remains the more interesting action.

  • snmp

    VZ15 sound like strike One, Kriss-Sphinx SDP or B&T USW, is base on CZ75 system

    • JT Win

      …based on the Hi-Power system.

      • snmp

        CZ75 system have special barrel link who help to have an low bore axis, that’s you could not found on HP35, Glock …

        • BaconLovingInfidel

          The Sphinx is based upon the CZ75 which is based upon the Browning patents.

  • olivehead

    You know, if the gun has to be that ugly, I’d just as soon have a higher bore axis. Kudos, however, for designing the gun around an existing magazine. At this stage of the game, I shouldn’t have to buy proprietary magazines for a striker-fired polymer gun. Beretta could have built the APX around 92 or even PX4 mags, but oh no…

  • salty

    im confused whos actually makin it? its not cz, its not the other co that used to be cz? its a diff company? yet still called “vz’ is “vz” in eastern europe the same thing as saying “ar” in america??? thanks

    • ostiariusalpha

      Vz. is short for vzor, which is just the Czech word for model. Lots of manufacturers in English speaking countries do the same with their model #, like S&W Model 29, Winchester Model 70, Remington Model Craptastic, Savage Model 99, Colt Model 1903, etc., etc.

      • Gary Kirk

        “Remington model craptastic”.. There was a time that would have irritated me.. But over the last few years, I regretfully believe that you’re correct..

        • ostiariusalpha

          Yes, my Remington 700 works just fine and dandy, now that I’ve replaced the trigger, barrel, bolt, and stock.

          • billyoblivion

            So the sights are good.

          • ostiariusalpha

            The only thing they never seem to screw up on the 700.

          • DW

            I am sorry to inform you otherwise…

          • ostiariusalpha

            Oh, did I say “screw up on”? I meant “screw on properly”.

        • Freedom Group has killed more American icons than alcohol and cigarettes.

    • BaconLovingInfidel

      Czech Small Arms who builds the VZ 58 in Jablunka, Czech Republic imports them through their US distributor CzechPoint.

  • Amplified Heat

    “Here a Glock, there a Glock, everywhere a Glock-Glock…”

  • Wang Chung Tonight
    • valorius

      Well that one at least looks super cool.

    • Robert Campbell

      Where can we learn more about this pistol?

  • Gary Kirk

    “Looks completely new”.. NOT.. Yet another gimmick gun..

  • moveme to Praha

    The Czechs are the definitive world leaders at turning out three very key male oriented products, guns, good traditional beer, and pornstars. na zdraví !

  • LGonDISQUS

    This interests me by looks alone. Very similar to my taste in women, cars, and vegetables.

  • Rico Balagbag

    Looks like a Glock 17 with both autism and down syndrome.

    • BaconLovingInfidel

      That’s a tough draw.

      The Forrest Gump of polymer pistols?

  • mig1nc

    I wonder if you could do a grip-chop and use XD 13rd magazines… Hmm…

  • Leigh Rich

    I like it. $400 it is on my wish list

  • Reminds me a lot of the Diamondback 9.