Safe Shoot Device For Hunting and Friendly Fire | SHOT 2017

Safe Shoot is an Israeli company that was showing their device off at the Next booths. The device is a picatinny or scope mounted block, that electronically links up with blocks or transmitters on other rifles or just about anything you want to mount it on (if you can). The concept is brutally simple: Whenever the device is pointed within a certain arc of another device, a rearward facing mini screen lights up red. When it isn’t pointed in that direction, the screen remains blank. The first option obviously means it is pointing at another device and thus another shooter (or game dog), and the second option means there is a clear field of fire only when concerning the people in the party that have a device on.

The device is primarily intended for hunting and civilian application, an attempt to reduce hunting accidents. With dogs I could possibly see this being a feasibility, if a shooter’s dog jumped in front of a muzzle at the wrong time, or was in some brush and the shooter mistook the dog for a animal to be hunted. Secondarily there is a Military/LE purpose with a team of LE officers/ soldiers all being armed with the device, moving through a building, and being able to prevent friendly fire casualties.

The theory side of me is screaming that this device isn’t anything more than a safety gimmick that will make shooters complacent in their rules of safety. Eventually this could lead to exactly what the tool was created to try and prevent. However, from a tactical perspective, I can see some feasibility. Although we have IR chem lights that teams can place on themselves, NVGs go down, chem lights fail, flare from lights at night, all sorts of stuff can happen. However with this device, a shooter can get an immediate signal of whether or not his target is friend or foe.



Miles

Infantry Marine, based in the Midwest. Specifically interested in small arms history, development, and usage within the MENA region and Central Asia. To that end, I run Silah Report, a website dedicated to analyzing small arms history and news out of MENA and Central Asia. You can also follow us on Twitter- @Silah_Report

Please feel free to get in touch with me about something I can add to a post, an error I’ve made, or if you just want to talk guns. I can be reached at miles@tfb.tv


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  • LGonDISQUS

    “Hi, yes, AIG – What are the monthly payments on a fifty million dollar liability policy?

    Oh… well, for our little gun safe/not safe toy.

    So I’d be better off financially just to buy a Ferarri Testarossa every month instead of purchasing a policy for this product range?

    Well, right. Thanks for the info, chap.”

    • flyingburgers

      You obviously have never heard of the medical device industry. We’re going to make a valve that’s installed in somebody’s heart. What could go wrong? Or aviation. Somebody’s airplane TV system caught on fire and killed 229 people in one event.

      • LGonDISQUS

        I only tend to make casual humor, not actual conversation.

        If you see “[serious] [/serious]” being used, well… you’ll know I was possibly being serious. ♡

        P.s. I don’t beliieve this company would have the financial clout to be underwritten or pay for the necessary insurance in my hypothetical story. ??

  • Suppressed

    I think it’d be great if LE started using these things, I’d be sure to buy one for my dog.

  • Tinkerer

    So, it’s an IFF device for firearms.

    • Bill

      It’d be cool to issue to plainclothes guys who routinely get shot by uniforms during hot calls.

      • Garmanarnar

        It would be cool to not do that and keep on seeing plainclothes pigs eat lead.

        • .45

          Sounds like a constructive attitude, intended to peacefully make inroads toward bridging the divide between law enforcement and the rest of society.

          Passive aggressive? Check.
          Sarcastic? Check.
          Pointless? Three out of three.

          • Garmanarnar

            I don’t build bridges, I burn them. The state and its agents of violence deserve nothing less than complete dismantlement and destruction.

          • .45

            Wouldn’t be funny otherwise.

          • .45

            To clarify, my statements about passive aggressive and pointless pertain to what I said, not you.

          • .45

            Let us know how that works out for you.

          • Bill

            Guys like you are why we can’t have nice things.

      • Phillip Cooper

        Also a great way to point out to the perps who the mole is.

  • Schadavi

    These would be extremely useful in the driven hunts we have here in Germany.
    When you have beaters and game dogs that push through an area you generally don’t know too well and appear from the underbrush where you wouldn’t have expected them, this gimmick could potentially prevent a lot of accidents.

    One problem I see is that people would intentionally muzzle-swipe the entire area to see where the others stand.

    • Bierstadt54

      I am going to side on the “dangerous” side here. I like new ideas, but if mil/leo are using these in training or sweeping a building, well, they are going to start relying on the technology to prevent friendly fire and not relying as much on their own judgement. It might be worth testing to see if it can be integrated into say, a SWAT team, but I would think it would more a danger in becoming a crutch than an aid to safety.

      For hunting, I would have no use for it here in Pennsylvania. The dogs have bells and hunters wear orange, and I’d rather count on my hunting partners not shooting what they can’t see than some electronic device. (And I will not hunt with those who can’t be trusted to not shoot me.) I have never hunted in Germany, though. And yes, it seems like there would be much muzzle-sweeping if these devices were being used, especially for new hunters. Maybe if they were used freehand only?

      • Tom Currie

        Even worse than individual shooters relying on the device to avoid friendly fire, I can easily see some commanders relying on this device to allow maneuvers no sane team would otherwise use — things like a “pincer: movement or two teams clearing a building from different entry points.

        I also have concerns about the accuracy of this device. Obviously the article does not go into any of the technical information about how the device works, but for a device that size to recognize when it is pointed towards another device, the signal almost has to be optical – probably modulated IR. It would be possible to make such a device using microwave RF, but the cost would be excessive for the proposed market.

        From a military perspective, such a device would be too easy to spoof or jam if it were known to be used operationally, more practically for civilian use, it almost certainly requires an at least partly clear line of sight between the devices. Whatever beam it is expecting to receive might well penetrate light brush (the kind you can see through), but in heavier brush there might mot be enough beam making it from one device to the other. It would be most likely to fail in exactly those hunting situations where it is most needed.

        Assuming the device is in fact optical, if everyone in a hunting party has the device mounted on their gun, this would work great when two hunters pointed their guns at each other — but would get no signal (and thus indicate a clear field of fire) if the other hunter was facing directly away from the shooter (with his body between the device on his gun and the device on the shooter’s gun).

      • Phillip Cooper

        Using them freehand only completely invalidates the point of them.

        By all means, make a handheld variant- but if there isn’t one on the barrel it’s even more useless.

        Agree with all of your other points, however.

  • Russell Buck

    This will be extremely helpful for LE until the bad guys figure out how to look friendly too.

    • Tom Currie

      Yes, it will enable LEOs to shoot civilians without endangering each other.

      • shooter2009

        I don’t say this too often online…but, I must make an exception in your case — you’re a f**king idiot and flaming a**hole.

        • Tom Currie

          You would certainly know all about being an idiot.

          No one said that would be the intent, but it WOULD be one of the likely effects.

          Remember, these devices are pitched to law enforcement as a way to prevent blue on blue shootings, which might actually work at least partly; BUT as many others have pointed out, use of these devices almost certainly WOULD lead to a reliance on the device, leading to carelessness, and the assumption that the device was somehow magically correct. All well and good IF the device works properly AND there are only LEOs and targets in the area. As soon as you add the possibility of a civilian to the mix, suddenly you DO have a recipe for that civilian to be shot. As many have pointed out, the intent of the device is to act like an aircraft IFF system – i.e. Identification Friend or Foe — how long does it take before uses have the assumption that anything not identified as a Friend must automatically be a Foe.

  • Bill

    Just being a pedant, but it won’t prevent friendly fire casualties, but might prevent blue-on-blue fratricide. One of the toughest aspects of building clearing and active killer response is try to sieve out the good guys and girls from the bad, other than the fact that the bad guy usually has a gun and kills himself.

    It looks ginormous.

  • Hinermad

    I appreciate the attempt, but like Ron White says, “You can’t fix stupid.” If you’re pulling the trigger on something you haven’t positively identified as needing to be shot, that’s stupid.

  • Vet for Trump

    Not very different from IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) for fighter aircraft.

  • SPQR9

    Perfect example of an idea that sounds great but simply causes more safety issues by people’s reliance on it than it solves.

  • Hem90

    Really disappointed in the lack of Cheney jokes.

    • .45

      If it makes you feel better, I mentioned this article to both a coworker and my father, making Cheney jokes each time.

  • Wrong name.
    This device doesn’t tell you when it’s safe to shoot.
    When the red light is on, it’s not safe to shoot.
    When there’s no light, it might not be safe to shoot.
    There is no green light.

    It can only tell you that the object in front of you is your fellow officer, coming in from a different direction.
    It CAN NOT tell you that the object in front of you is NOT your fellow officer.
    So you have to be certain of your target anyway.
    What good is this thing, again?

    • Tom Currie

      IF it actually worked (which I have doubts about in the real world) it could be useful for the kind of organized “hunts” sometimes conducted in Europe and a few other places. A controlled environment, where EVERYONE involved could be required to have one. Even then, you are 100% right that it cannot tell you when it is safe to shoot, all it can tell you is when it is definitely NOT safe to shoot. Unfortunately too many people would assume that the absence of a DON’T SHOOT signal means it is safe to shoot.

      • Phillip Cooper

        I don’t think that merely possessiing the device makes it work with other devices. It sounds like it’s similar to FMRS radios, where you can enter a key to allow you to talk to other radios in a party. With FMRS radios, yes you can also broadcast, but it isn’t pointed out that this does that.

        Seems like you’d have to have this device, AND pair/key it to another group of devices to allow it to work.

        Another overly-complicated engineering solution, made by engineers that don’t understand the problem.

        • Tom Currie

          Excuse me Phillip, but there is no such thing as an FMRS radio — there are FRS radios and there are GMRS radios. Most radios advertised as FRS today are really GMRS radios with FRS capability. (and the vast majority of those are being used illegally by people who “don’t know” that a license is required). None of those radios have any codes that connect them to other radios – the so-called “Privacy Codes” simply block a user from hearing anyone who isn’t using the same code – but the signals sent out go to anyone who ISN’T using a “Privacy Code”

          These devices can’t be using radio signals anywhere close to those frequencies because radio waves below the microwave range are simply not directional enough for a device that size to be able to identify the direction of an beacon the way these devices are described to work.

          But your point about the signal being coded is almost certainly somewhat valid. Whatever sort of beacon signal one device is sending out and the other device is detecting, that signal would need some sort of coding. BUT simply having coding does not mean that you would have multiple sets of devices that would ignore each other. From the looks of the device, and especially the intended customers, I would expect that the devices come with the coding already built-in from the manufacturer. Letting users change the codes would create even more likely points of failure.

          • Phillip Cooper

            You ever make a mistake, get an acronymn mixed up?

            Sorry, Mr. Wizard. Feel better now?

            My statement still stands.

  • Michael Lindner

    …and if LEOs or military used this, the bad guys could buy one and know exactly where they are…

  • noob

    (c) All weapons and equipment used within Delos parks are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. Gun ammunition contains proprietary safeguards related to bullet velocity, and tampering with gun safety features or ammunition automatically transfers liability to you and absolves Delos, Inc. of any injury or death that may occur as a result.

    INT. The Hotel Room
    PETER:
    Hey, John… How do I know
    I’m not going to kill another guest with this thing?
    JOHN
    Try it. Shoot me. Go on, shoot. Shoot!
    The gun has a sensing device.
    It wasn’t fire at anything with a high body temperature.
    Only something cold, like a machine.
    PETER
    They thought of everything.

    INT. CONTROL ROOM
    CREW
    The Black knight won’t be repaired till tomorrow afternoon.
    SCIENTIST
    Yeah, I have the banquet scheduled for 5:30, if that conforms.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/845d67fdc1b6ce287973eae0643046fc2f3a983e9806760af92018507f0b2d9b.jpg