Aeroscraft to produce M4 carbines in Ukraine named WAC-47 in 7,62×39

The American company Aeroscraft, founded by an immigrant from Ukraine, and the State owned company Ukroboronservis will co-operate to produce M4 carbines to NATO standard.

The production will take place in Ukraine, and is a start to NATO-ify the Ukranian Army.

The M4 rifle is named WAC-47 and will be made with a 14.5″ barrel in 5,56 NATO.

But it’s also mentioned that because of the rifle’s “modularity” it can be used with 5,45×39 and 7,62×39.

I don’t know if this is a play with words, “WAC-74” vs. “AK-47”, in a way to phase out the current stock of both 5,45×39 and 7,62×39 mm and gradually phase in 5,56 NATO?

Exactly how the transition between these types of ammunition is to be done isn’t described, and it’s not an easy task without changing the majority of the rifle. If you have an idea, please comment below.

From Ukrainian Defense Industry’s press release:

WAC-47 can “work” with the caliber 7,62×39, 5,45×39 Ukrainian army is armed with. And if necessary, modular design allows to re-equip assault rifle under 5.56×45 NATO ammunition, which – according to STANAG 4172 standard – is used in all NATO assault rifles.

Depending on the mission and the requirements they may also look at different barrel lengths like 10.5 “, 11.5”, 14.5 “, 18” or even 24 “.

 

2017-01-11 22.18.37

Note the 7,62 x 39 mm above!

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“Ukrainian engineers in Afghanistan faced similar problems, while participating in the ISAF mission. To solve the problem of different standards weapons Ukrainian troops had to use German assault rifles G36, given by Lithuanian soldiers.”

Ukrainian soldiers are to gradually receive new NATO assault rifle. According to the plan, the first batch of WAC-47 modification will go into trial operation in the combat units of Ukrainian army, during this time all information on using the riffle in the field will be collected. Gathering feedback from Ukrainian soldiers will enhance necessary changes before mass production starts.

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Soviet Union is being phased out, NATO is being phased in.

The Press Release contains a lot of more details, read it here: http://ukroboronprom.com.ua/en/media/m16-wac-47-dlya-ukrayinskoyi-armiyi-vid-dk-ukroboronprom.html

Pictures: The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine



Eric B

Ex-Arctic Ranger. Competitive practical shooter and hunter with an European focus. Always ready to increase my collection of modern semi-automatic firearms, optics and sound suppressors. Owning the night would be nice too.


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  • Maxim Popenker

    some points.
    1. Aeroscraft has no experience in small arms, as it designs dirigibles and other lighter than air crafts. Do UkrObormotProm have plans to produce inflatable rifles that are lighter than air?
    2. photo captioned ““Ukrainian engineers in Afghanistan faced similar problems..” clearly shows Polish soldiers, not Ukrainians 😉

    • VanDiemensLand

      The guy behind the Polish troop is Ukrainian.

      • Eric B

        Yeah, and apparently he’s the engineer with the problem 🙂

        • Twilight sparkle

          There was a great lack of g36 in that pic though.

          • Eric B

            The press release lacks a lot of things, unfortunately.

    • CavScout

      Glock made plastic shovels. Good thing they got the pistols right, as their first idea was as good as the electric sponge…

      • Edmond Huet

        This is not their idea but the idea of a group of gunsmiths and arms designers, Gloclk as a defense contractor for exercise plastic handgrenades, combat knives and shovels answered the RFQ for the new pistol 80 and won it with lowest bid.

  • Vhyrus

    5.45 and 5.56 are similar enough that you can use the same magazines with different followers, so logistically that is a cinch. 7.62 is a bit more complicated, but since we already have 7.62 ARs I am assuming all they will be doing is switching out uppers and mags.

    • Edmond Huet

      Oh? Really?
      How will a STANAG mag be used in an AK type magazine well?

      • Vhyrus

        It won’t, and nowhere in the article or my comment does it say anything about using AK mags, only the 7.62 round. You can feed a 7.62 round from a non AK magazine, shockingly.

        • Edmond Huet

          That is the initial requirement, using the AK mags having many millions of them here and riflemen being trained tactically with the AK mags.
          You can, with expensive, unreliable, proprietary magazines having both a STANAG feeding end and the curvature of an AK mag.

          • int19h

            The standard-issue rifle for Ukrainian army is AK74. So we’re really talking 5.45 here mostly, not 7.62×39. Now, yes, you still can’t shove an AK74 mag into an AR magwell. But an AR mag for 5.45 is easy to make, and just as reliable as 5.56.

          • Edmond Huet

            The MoU is about a M4 type weapon using AK magazines in 7.62x39mm

          • glenn cheney

            I called Boris and Natasha, they have ways to know these things.
            Boris questioned the existence of any memorandum of understanding, indeed, his take was of confusion more so than understanding.
            Natasha? She is of little humor. She quipped in a dismissing brushoff, “only a troll would ask such stupido.”
            Never pays to argue with a woman, especially that Natasha.
            You’ve done a mahhh-velour job of hijacking the thread. Kudos.

          • Edmond Huet

            Boris and Natacha? You sound like a Kremlin Klown.
            The MoU has been signed publicly.
            Before calling a troll, do some google search.(and sytop looking at yerself in the mirror)

            glenn cheney

            I called Boris and Natasha, they have ways to know these things.
            Boris
            questioned the existence of any memorandum of understanding, indeed,
            his take was of confusion more so than understanding.
            Natasha? She is of little humor. She quipped in a dismissing brushoff, “only a troll would ask such stupido.”
            Never pays to argue with a woman, especially that Natasha.
            You’ve done a mahhh-velour job of hijacking the thread. Kudos.

          • Edmond Huet

            The MoU is about a M4 type weapon using AK magazines in 7.62x39mm…

          • glenn cheney

            So, you’re saying you want to build a new rifle around an existing 5 dollar metal mag?
            You from Amsterdam?

          • Edmond Huet

            I am not saying, that is what the MoU says.
            Not different from AR 10 built around M14 or G3 magazines..

  • Twilight sparkle

    I don’t see this actually happening, Ukraine has other ar manufactures https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cb8ac0d372d93b1258e6ac56d949b099560f1c58a9f8e7412380434631b21797.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/91995ed7ac373cfd844dbcafd665ca4f38f462c897940342ba2a3dd20c03e84d.jpg and they’re even licensed to produce the tavor, if they’re serious about switching to a NATO round then they need to figure out how to stick with something.

    • forrest1985

      Yeah doesn’t FORT manufacture the Tar21 in 5.45? The same rifle that is already produced in 5.56?

    • Maxim Popenker

      Zbroyar is a small private company; UkrObormotProm is a large state-owned enterprise. Ergo – it’s much easier to fraud government money via government-owned establishment

      • Edmond Huet

        BINGO! Give this man a cigar!
        That is exactly what this scam is about.

  • Edmond Huet

    Exactly how the transition between these types of ammunition is to be done isn’t described, and it’s not an easy task without changing the majority of the rifle. If you have an idea, please comment below.

    It can’t be done. The whole story is a scam.

    • iksnilol

      Yeah it can. 7.62×39 mags exist for ARs, so do uppers. You just change barrel, bolt and mag.

      • Edmond Huet

        Oh! Really?
        There is no MilSpec 7.62×39 mag for AR, no MilSpec upper.
        A bolt face open to 7.62×39 case head dimension is a disaster, only an AR 10 size bolt is reliable.

        • iksnilol

          Milspec don’t mean a thing. That just means the military isn’t building it or having it built for them.

          The Sauer 200 I use isn’t milspec. Ain’t nobody stupid enough to argue that it ain’t more than durable.

          Regarding 7.62×39 ARs: There’s plenty of options and manufacturers. ASC mags (or whatever they’re called) have gotten good reviews and are recommended for reliable feeding. Also, milspec 7.62×39 AR-15 bolt: http://daytonatactical.com/collections/7-62×39-parts/products/7-62-x-39-complete-bolt-carier-group

          Choke on a bag of confectioners’ sugar for spreadin’ dem negative vibes, mon.

          • Edmond Huet

            *yawn*

          • iksnilol

            Aah, the classic “I said it doesn’t exist, so I’ll ignore it when it is actually presented to me”.

          • Edmond Huet

            Ah! The classic anonymous knows it all internet expert..

          • iksnilol

            Well, I showed you what you were looking for.

            Most folks say “neat,didn’t know about those” or “while cool, that wasn’t quite what I meant, I meant rather …”

            It’s the revolutionary concept of being polite despite disagreeing. AKA not being a poopyhead.

          • Edmond Huet

            sez our resident anonymous inrternet arms expert, keyboard kommando.

          • iksnilol

            Says the newcomes that has poop instead of a head.

          • Edmond Huet

            Whatever. Your village called, by the way..

          • glenn cheney

            Daytona Tactical has all the 80% lowers in the world for ya’ too.

        • iksnilol

          They exist. Milspec ar-15 bolts in 7.62×39. ASC mags are reliable and nobody has problems with them. Milspec is just a marketing term.

          http://daytonatactical.com/collections/7-62×39-parts/products/7-62-x-39-complete-bolt-carier-group

          Go choke on a bag of confectioner’s sugar for spreadin’ dem negative vibes, mon.

        • Twilight sparkle

          Ukraine is already producing 5.45 ar mags for the fort 221 so the only thing that would be a new issue would be the bolt head and barrel. I don’t see why everyone is concerned about 7.62×39 from what I’ve seen of that conflict the only party that’s using that round in anything other than machine guns is the separatist

        • glenn cheney

          Yes it is, if you run 9310 steel bolts.
          If they were smart, they’d stick with the 7.62×39 and the 5.45×39, same bolt, same mag, ammo for either all over the ground, pop two pins, swap out uppers to change calibers.
          The U.S. has reliable mags for 7.62×39 for AR 15 platforms, no need for 10’s….I’ll have to factcheck on 7.62×39 AR 15 mags run 5.45, same casing only necked down.
          That combo doesn’t fit objective to convert over to 5.56 NATO.
          Someone got a domestic contract in the EU, get that NATO money while you can.

          • Edmond Huet

            Reliable? says who?

          • Edmond Huet

            glenn cheney

            Edmond Huet

            13 hours ago

            If they were smart, they’d stick with the 7.62×39 and the 5.45×39, same bolt, same mag

            MWAHAZHAHAHAHAHAHA

          • Edmond Huet

            7.62×39 AR 15 mags run 5.45, same casing only necked down.

            MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          • iksnilol

            5.45 isn’t 7.62×39 necked down.

          • glenn cheney

            It was an off cuff comment as the entire article is an attempt to posture NATO affiliation in the face of reality.
            It’s more about geopolitics than synchronization in a 5.56.
            I let the troll engagement Trump the mag or caliber issues. I still think the 5.45 is the best of the three, 7.62×39, 5.56, and the tumbler, 5.45.
            Levy demerits as per orders of the day Sir, I stand corrrcted.

          • iksnilol

            I like you, you’re polite in stark contrast to that other guy.

            But yeah, geopolitics is the name of the game here ( I guess).

  • toms

    So much nonsense here. They are planning to build ar15’s that shoot 5.45 at first but switching to 5.56 as the new ammunition facility comes on line. They have hired some American tech specialists to QC it including former COLT/LMT employees. The AR15 is very easy to build if one has modern CNC machines, the Ukrainians will be fine. It has not been adopted, they are just trying to build up a well rounded defense industry. Small arms are one of their weak points but if they can produce intercontinental ballistic missiles, guided ATGM, and rocket engines (which they were a leader in for years) they can CNC an 500$ ar15. The army will test it against the tavor and galil ace later. The tavor in 5.45 was never fielded in large quantities but a large quantity of 5.56 versions are sitting in armories without ammo. The reliability of the 5.45 mags was poor. Maybe that has changed. They already produce some nice ar15’s from zybroyar. Frankly I think the Fort Galils would suite their needs better than the ar15. To many years of using AK’s makes the maintenance necessary in an m16 unlikely to be understood by the average joe. Their military is changing very rapidly though into a modern professional one that I would pit against any western European army. Ammo supply is a problem.

    The Lugansk Cartridge Works was raided and most of the equipment smuggled back into Russia by the Russian military. A new ammo line is being set up as we speak to produce NATO rounds including new AP rounds.

    • Edmond Huet

      Sources?

      toms

      12 hours ago

      So much nonsense here. They are planning to build ar15’s that shoot
      5.45 at first but switching to 5.56 as the new ammunition facility comes
      on line. They have hired some American tech specialists to QC it
      including former COLT/LMT employees. The AR15 is very easy to build if
      one has modern CNC machines, the Ukrainians will be fine. It has not
      been adopted, they are just trying to build up a well rounded defense
      industry. Small arms are one of their weak points but if they can
      produce intercontinental ballistic missiles, guided ATGM, and rocket
      engines (which they were a leader in for years) they can CNC an 500$
      ar15. The army will test it against the tavor and galil ace later. The
      tavor in 5.45 was never fielded in large quantities but a large quantity
      of 5.56 versions are sitting in armories without ammo. The reliability
      of the 5.45 mags was poor. Maybe that has changed. They already produce
      some nice ar15’s from zybroyar. Frankly I think the Fort Galils would
      suite their needs better than the ar15. To many years of using AK’s
      makes the maintenance necessary in an m16 unlikely to be understood by
      the average joe. Their military is changing very rapidly though into a
      modern professional one that I would pit against any western European
      army. Ammo supply is a problem.

      The Lugansk Cartridge Works was
      raided and most of the equipment smuggled back into Russia by the
      Russian military. A new ammo line is being set up as we speak to produce
      NATO rounds including new AP rounds.

  • Jake

    I think it makes perfect sense. Trying out the platform, training, and early implementation can be done with the ammo you have stockpiled. Once you have a factory, a barrel and bolt face to convert to a new cartridge will probably run less than a hundred bucks. And your armor will have it back up and running in less than 30 minutes of work.
    Being able to use a thousand rounds of ammo you have instead of buying NATO ammo would more than cover the costs.
    Or stockpiling the uppers would cost a coupe hundred more, save the armorer 29 minutes, and reserve the ability to use the enemies ammo against them in a pinch.

    I’d gladly try one out in any of the mentioned calibers!!

    • Edmond Huet

      It will not be the case since the first caliber it will be made for in 7.62×39 and the magwell for AK mags

      • Jake

        I’ve looked at your other posts as obviously you are passionate about the topic of small arms in the Ukraine. You probably have a better formed opinion than me. There couldn’t be a modular system in mind where mag well could be changed, or the plan could be to use AK mags all the way since there are 5.56 mags.
        May not be the best thing for the Ukrainian military, but I want one even more now!

        • Edmond Huet

          Do not hold your breath too long..
          Old habits did not die yet, someone comes with a scam, gets 5 to 35 million USD , builds half a dozen prototypes then you do not see anything mass produced and you are lucky if you are left with a bunch of useful blueprints.
          I live in Ukraine for 3 years, I have been international observer then I have been involved with small arms ammunition projects and other projects with scientifics, industrialists, technicians and anti corruption groups.
          What is going on now with the WACK, err… the WAC-47 is the result of corruption, incompétence, nepostism, ignorance and greed.

          • Jake

            Visited the Ukraine years ago and spent a fair amount of time abroad. So I find that believable. Corruption was common.
            The people were very warm to us as we were out in the villages. I’m saddened by the way things have turned out. The people were so hospitable and the country so beautiful.

          • Edmond Huet

            I can not agree more.
            The country is a pearl, the soil is fertile, the people are nice, this is a country blessed by God and people are so different of Russia.
            All that I knew from Ukraine is that it was a soviet republic and I was stationed in South Germany, on an axis facing a group of Warsaw Pact armies comprising of a Ukrainian Armed Forces Corp, a well equipped and trained one.
            People are fighting here against a country that is an agressor, that has robbed them for centuries, including their history and culture, killing Ukrainains by millions.
            When I discovered this country and its rich and ancient history, I decided to leave my comfortable life in France and came here to help them in their fight.
            They fight for values that have been mines, always.
            Putler can not let them be successful or he is dead, he has to suppress freedom and moral values that ignited the Maidan.
            More things have changed here for the past two years than for 25 years.
            Unfortunately, Ukraine pays a hard price, I have buried a few friends.

        • Edmond Huet

          Modular mag well system is not reliable and sturdy for military use, the geometry of mag wells, the magazines contact points and some other datas are not compatible between 5.45mm, 7.62mm and 5.56mm calibers., lots of feeding problems.

  • Edmond Huet

    For the internet arms expert that posted “5.45 is a necked down 7.62×39 and uses the same mags and bolt” , thanks for the good laugh.

  • chad thundercuck

    wow adopting a s hitty rifle for a caliber never designed for it, all for political “we lub NATO please gib us monies” thought, good luck replacing bcg after a thousand rounds of 7.62x39mm shatters the bolt face, what a fail, there is nothing wrong with the millions of akm+74’s they have in reserve.