Alpha Dog Silencer “Buy Suppressors Now, Don’t Wait For HPA” | SHOT 2017

I spoke with Alpha Dog Silencers and while they do not have anything particular new for SHOT Show 2017, we talked about HPA. The discussion was eye opening for me and may be for you as well.

Alpha Dog Silencers is saying to buy suppressors now. Do not wait for HPA to pass. Why? You are going to have to wait a while for HPA to pass. This isn’t going to be something that will pass in the near future. During the time you are waiting for HPA to pass you can already lock in the suppressor you want.

What I did not think about is what will happen if HPA does pass? Everyone thinks suppressors will rain from the sky but that is not the case. It is simple supply and demand. There could very well be a run on suppressors. Everyone will want one, especially the people who are waiting with bated breath. I imagine it might be like what I experienced in NY during Super Storm Sandy and post NY SAFE ACT. After Super Storm Sandy hit, basic supplies disappeared. Gas vaporized in thin air people were consuming so much. After NY SAFE ACT, you saw a huge spike in gouging prices and a run on ammo.

According to Alpha Dog, he has heard that some dealers are stock piling suppressors in the event that HPA passes. If it does, they will stop selling suppressors and jack up the price and gouge the customer because the demand will sky rocket.

Sure you may be able to make your own suppressor if HPA passes. But that is not the same as an established company with a history of R&D and testing. Plus some of the suppressors are pretty awesome. I’m looking at you SilencerCo and your MAXIM 9.

I recommend you think about what you want. If you live in a state that allows suppressor ownership, do not hesitate. Go buy the suppressor now. The $200 tax stamp is not a big deal. The 8 months to a year wait does suck but the benefit is you will have locked in what you want. Otherwise you might be waiting a while for dealers and manufacturers to catch up to the demand.



Nicholas C

Co-Founder of KRISSTALK forums, an owner’s support group and all things KRISS Vector related. Nick found his passion through competitive shooting while living in NY. He participates in USPSA and 3Gun. He loves all things that shoots and flashlights. Really really bright flashlights.

Any questions please email him at nicholas.c@staff.thefirearmblog.com


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  • Paul White

    nah, I plan to wait until ~18 months or so after it passes. I’m hoping that’ll be enough time to let the crazy immediate buy now buy now buy now pass. Maybe even 2 years, to let some more affordable suppressors hit the market (and for me to buy some threaded barrels).

    • Rob

      You need 60 votes in the Senate to break a filibuster which this would surely need to do. Do you honestly believe that the republicans will expend the political capital to get this done in the this climate? They can’t even agree on what to do with the Affordable care act and that was a stated goal for the party.

      You will be waiting a while.

      • Paul White

        If it doesn’t pass anyway then I’m not getting one. The cost of the most suppressors is pretty damn high already and the 200 dollar tax on top of that is also not cheap. If we get to the point where I can buy them for ~100ish for a decent basic one I’ll get 2 or 3, but most of the centerfire ones I see are 500+ dollars, then you figure in the extra 200 and *damn*.

        • BearSlayer338

          Considering how easy to make suppressors are I think they are way way overpriced.

        • Keiichi

          For me it’s not the $200 tax or the nine month wait. Those things I’d be fine to deal with, and if that was all I’d already have several. For me, it’s the fingerprints and photos going in a Federal database. Especially now that the Trust “loophole” has been plugged…

          I’m with you, if the HPA doesn’t pass, I’m not getting one. Which would be a real shame.

          • jstark

            Amen brother. The $200 tax irritates the heck out of me (taxing a right??), but the Big Brother database is a no-go.

        • Nick

          For me it’s the wait, honestly I’d continue to pay the additional $200 if I could potentially leave the store with a suppressor.

      • Forest C. Adcock

        I’m hoping for something entirely different. I’m hoping Trump appoints a pro 2A ATF head. Someone from the business world who believes in customer service and hates dealing with the ATF.

        I’m just hoping the absurd rulings and later reversals, punative definition changes, and horrendous wait times end. I want a pro alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and really big fires ATF, not a just 4 more years of the anti-fun police.

        • RSG

          Wayne LaPierre FTW!!!!

          • valorius

            LMAO that would be epic.

          • John

            John Ross.

        • frankspeak

          they do seem to be becoming more business oriented…with their relaxation on requirements for acquiring an FFL…which will result in even more background checks…got to be a win/win for them…

      • TechnoTriticale

        re: You need 60 votes in the Senate to break a filibuster…

        Ah yes, but the recently deposed Senate majority rescinded the rule that empowered filibusters. Many are keeping popcorn handy to watch them now argue for its return.

        The major impact of the HPA, should it be enacted, is innovation, and in particular, the rate of innovation. Perhaps the single biggest problem with the currently regulatory environment is the bureaucratic delay. It’s long enough to keep me from even considering a suppressor…

        …and what I’d really want is an integral, suitable for CCW, even if it requires a new style of vertical shoulder holster.

        • RSG

          Incorrect. Harry Reid only did away with the fillibuster 60 vote majority for executive appointments and the Supreme Court (and federal Judges, too). Congressional legislation still requires 60 votes, although I’m hopping McConnell finally becomes useful and implements the nuclear option reducing it to simple majority in the senate.

          • TechnoTriticale

            Thanks for the correction.

          • valorius

            Harry reid demonstrated that the majority can modify the fillibuster rule however they see fit with a simple majority vote.

          • Mark Horning

            It’s a Tax. Taxes can be eliminated via “reconsideration”. Reconsideration is not subject to filibuster.

          • Dan

            McConnell wont implement the nuclear option. If they lose majority at any point in time it means they screw themselves down the road.

      • valorius

        Not if they attach it to a infrastructure bill, which the dems would fall all over themselves to vote for.

        • Dan

          Attach it to a transgendered bathroom bill.

          • valorius

            Then the R’s would oppose it, lol.

      • frankspeak

        anything that lightens the workload of the ATF…is probably going to be covertly supported..and yes,..i’ve read that “not for public consumption” white paper…

    • David B

      My thoughts. If it passes, there probably will be a run on suppressors, but I’ve waited this long, I can wait longer. And the $200 is kind of a big deal, when you’re looking at something like the rebel .22 which is only $99 to start, that’s an extra 200% just in tax.

      • int19h

        It’s not just the $200 tax stamp. The regulation also keeps the market smaller than it would otherwise be, which means that economy of scale doesn’t truly kick in, so suppressors themselves are way more expensive than they’d be in a healthy market, even if you ignore that $200. Then also, because it’s $200 per transfer, everyone is buying suppressors that will last, and companies are making them sturdy and beefy – and more expensive.

        Look at suppressor prices in NZ to see what a healthy market in those things looks like, and what we can expect post-HPA.

        • iksnilol

          Yeah, but why buy a less durable product that you’ll have to replace.

          • I’m thinking a $25 Magpul injection molded .22 suppressor would be pretty entertaining, as would a Hipoint ZAMAK core version for $30.

          • iksnilol

            Why? Those things will last maybe two bricks.

          • Mostly for the Lulz. And the lightweight, mass production aspect.

            I actually think a high temperature, engineering grade plastic baffle stack could likely hold up to a good amount of .22lr if it was designed properly.

            Also, injection moulding allows for a lot of complex shapes to be made that would be expensive and tedious to machine. This could allow for novel, high efficiency baffles that have hitherto been too expensive to implement.

          • iksnilol

            Yeah, but how efficent is it really when it clogs up and can’t really be cleaned ?

            Plastic baffles are nothing new, they’re actually old af. It’s basically airsoft grade, little to no durability and crappy noise suppression. Glock actually makes an entire polymer suppressor. It has bad noise suppression (only really worth it with subsonics) and wears out after a couple of magazines.

          • I had no idea about the Glock plastic suppressor – now I want one as well.

            At this point I think the root of my desire is that it would be amazing to see suppressors go from highly regulated to disposable plastic, off the shelf items.

          • iksnilol

            Well, Hi-Points are kinda disposable. Same logic.

            But yeah, Glock does make a plastic suppressor. It is even QD (it attaches to notches in the barrel). Costs 130 dollars and is good for 15 rounds (30 if slow fire).

            Here’s a video:

          • Ben Pottinger

            You could make them on a 3D printer to test out all kinds of neat designs pretty quickly. And if you made it slightly larger than a normal metal suppressor it should last a few bricks without issue. Who cares if it wears out if you spent a few dollars on it?

            Less regulation is a good thing all around. I can’t believe how often I hear gun owners whining about stuff like this as if less regulation and more options for us are *bad* things. It’s just dumb. It’s like they just need *something* to complain about.

          • iksnilol

            I don’t really mind the HPA (tho I see no reason why it should pass now just because Trump is president). I just mind all the folks saying that suppressors will be 20 bucks now.

            I think it was called a Parker Hale or something. It was a cheeap rimfire suppressor. Threaded metal tube with plastic baffles held in position by a spring. Didn’t suppress too well (still quiet due to rimfire) and had a tendency to gunk up and not be easily cleaned.was very cheap but I doubt anyone bothers msking them anymore.

          • Ben Pottinger

            It’s not so much because trump is president but because we have a majority in the house and Senate and there is no a Obama to veto it out of spite. It’s also already getting more traction then it had last year, again because it’s unlikely to be shutdown by the President.

            They will definitely drop in price, and probably a fair bit lower then they are in europe (they might be unregulated in parts of Europe but *guns* are not so there is a much smaller potential market, unregulated or not). In fact I’d venture to guess that there is a bigger market here even *with* the regulations currently in place.

            I bet you could make a pretty efficient 22 suppressor on a ABS capable 3d printer that would be much better then that old parker hale simply because you could print it as a single piece so no seams around the baffles to leak under pressure.

            PLA is just too brittle and crappy. It would probably pop apart in a few rounds.

          • Billy Jack

            Or oil filters

          • “Entertaining” when viewed from the safe distance of Youtube, at least.

          • ozzallos .

            Even more durable products will be forced to drop their prices. Like how the 1911 market opened up a few years back. Even the mere presence of crappy foreign makes impacted every manufacturer’s bottom line.

          • iksnilol

            Eh, how so? RIA makes cheap 1911s but it doesn’t mean there isn’t a limit to how much American producers can drop the price. You still have to pay for manufacturing, materials and R&D and maintain a profit to actually make it worthwhile.

            RIA makes inexpensive (albeit good) guns due to manufacturing in a country where man-hours are cheap versus the US where they’re more expensive.

          • int19h

            E.g. because you don’t really shoot a lot (many hunters), and so you don’t need a 5x expensive device with that extra margin of durability that you aren’t actually going to use.

            Or maybe because the less durable one is the only one that you can afford.

            Or maybe because you want to buy a cheaper one just to see how well it works, and decide if you want to invest a lot more money.

          • iksnilol

            Meh, hunters buy quality suppressors. A good hunting suppressor needs to be lightweight and short. That requires some good materials and decent R&D.

            It can be gotten cheap, but it’ll still cost more than pocket change. I expect if the HPA passes you’ll get decent hunting suppressors for 200-300 dollars.

          • Because poor. It’s the Sam Vimes Theory Of Rich Men’s Boots; the more money you can afford to spend all at once, the less you have to spend to keep going, because quality materials last longer. If HPA passes, expect the most common silencers on the market to have FRAM or PUROLATOR on the side, because a $25 adaptor and a new $8 filter every few months is affordable for nearly everyone.

          • Hardwood83

            because silencers will be a consumable- like mags.

          • iksnilol

            Ummm. Silencers are consumable in the same regime barrels are.

            Oh goodness grscious, you folks are naive and with a short term understanding of personal finances.

          • Hardwood83

            No, you have a poor understanding of silencers. They are consumables, only the NFA makes that a problem. Once the ridiculous artificial constraints are reduced on them you can make your own or replace the baffles or whatever you want. Just because you declared what hunters will do and that a decent hunting suppressor will cost $200-$300 doesn’t make it so. I’ve got two commercial cans and two form 1, DIY cans. There is no noticeable performance difference between them. I strongly suspect the deer don’t know the difference either.

          • iksnilol

            Meh, I’d rather say you have a poor understanding of what happens when have unregulated silencers. I have a better understanding since I live in a country that doesn’t regulate silencers.

          • foulpet

            I replace tires about every 30,000ish miles and they aren’t cheap.

          • iksnilol

            Yup, but sure beats buying tires you’d have to replace after 10 000 miles even if they’d be cheaper in the short term.

        • Tom Currie

          Don’t bet on a “healthy market” post-HPA – at least not for several years.

          First we will have the artificial “Shortage” and the inevitable price gouging (which will make the total cost of ownership go UP even without the $200 tax).

          Then the market will split into two UNhealthy markets — we will have the current big name suppliers who won’t drop their prices one penny (and will probably raise their wholesale prices to take up at least half that $200 ‘discount’) and we will have the clowns that are now selling “Solvent Traps” finally admitting that those have always been meant as DIY Suppressor Kits, of course they will more than double their prices once they are able to sell the parts all assembled and call it a suppressor.

          It will be several years before anything resembling a “healthy market” develops, because your healthy market will require new suppliers to enter the market with entirely new business plans and marketing strategies. We are not going to see pricing of $100 rimfire and $200 high power rifle suppressors on quality products for at least three to five years after HPA eventually passes.

          And of course, several states will find a way to ban them entirely or require permits and registration.

          • Ben Pottinger

            Considering how easy it is to manufacture a 22LR suppressor and the fact that we already have makers selling them for 100$ I strongly disagree with your assessment. Your assuming a market based on what happened with “black rifles” back when O was re-elected. Except the difference is everyone was convinced that the end was coming and they needed to buy what they wanted right then so sales massively outstripped supply, supply kept increasing and demand kept increasing even more. Now both have leveled out and you can get a quality black rifle for a reasonable price and even ammo has dropped in price.

    • TheNotoriousIUD

      That is NOT what he wanted to hear, dude.

      • BearSlayer338

        Good cause suppressors are way overpriced for being essentially a metal tube stuffed with frost plugs.

        • TheNotoriousIUD

          I agree.

          • valorius

            A suppressor is basically a tiny car muffler. My stainless steel Borla XR1 offroad racing muffler on my Porsche cost about $150…so a device based on the same tech that’s 1/10th the size should certainly cost a good deal less once the NFA burden is removed.

          • I remain disappointed that there aren’t any Youtube videos of loons who’ve registered the muffler off their Dodge Ram so they can attach it to a .50 BMG rifle.

          • frankspeak

            can short barrelled rifles and AOW’s be far behind?…the times they are a changin’!…..

    • RSG

      But, but….Alpha Dog silencers might be out of business by then. “Why can’t you just buy now, PLEASE?”

  • David G

    “Don’t wait. Buy them now” says the guy selling suppressors.

    • pithy

      And reported by the guy that compared a required product during a hurricane to a product that less than 10% of the population will buy once or twice in a lifetime.

      • pvw20

        “We want your $900 now, not your $150 later.”

        • El Duderino

          Bazinga!

        • Tom Currie

          Actually the price of suppressors will probably go UP if HPA passes! Because suddenly there will be a “shortage” of suppressors — and we all know what the dealers will do immediately upon any hint of a “Shortage” — they will post big signs saying “Only ONE per customer per day” and, of course, add a 1 between the dollar sign and the existing price on every price tag (just like they did with the entry level ARs a few years back).

          • That will most certainly be a temproary condition, though; I’m betting most of the people running these businesses have enough sense to understand the concept of economy of scale, and know that they’ll make more money selling cheaper in bulk than steeper in low quantity once their manufacturing costs come down.

          • CavScout

            That’s alright. It’s called an air compressor muffler, and it’s what criminals use. I could deal for a while. Also the reason legit suppressors might as well be legal for good people.

          • kcshooter

            What criminals are using home made suppressors to commit crimes? Any evidence to back this up?

          • foulpet

            most criminals aren’t smart enough or they don’t care.

          • Ben Pottinger

            Except suppressors are extremely easy to manufacture. Even very nice ones are not hard to make or tool up for. The real hangup on suppressors right now is the massive reporting and logging paperwork required to manufacture, stock, sell, and buy them. Remove all of those requirements and suddenly they can be manufactured in much greater quantity at much lower prices.

            Your seeing these types of “stories” because of the changes to trust transfers obama enacted and the fact that now there is a real chance of HPA passing. Both of those combined together I suspect are putting a serious dent in current suppressor sales (people binge bought before the changes went into effect and are now content to wait it out for HPA instead of dealing with the fingerprinting and other nonsense now required for the trust route).

            I suspect if HPA doesn’t pass in the next 12-18 months we will see a number of the smaller suppressor makers go belly up from lack of cashflow.

          • foulpet

            Then you can make one for $80 or less worth of material or just buy a oil filter.

        • Joseph L. Frechette

          They want you to buy now because the industry is suffering. It seems that everyone is waiting to see what happens in Congress.
          It isn’t the $200 tax, it’s the principle.

    • RSG

      Exactly what I’d say to save my struggling business to “convince” folks to act now, instead of waiting. Guy lost all credibility, IMO.

    • Phillip Cooper

      and what do you want to bet he’s one of the worst for stockpiling suppressors so he can then gouge after HPA passes?

      • Dan

        Well of course. How else would he have “heard” that is what manufacturers are doing.

        • JoelM

          Because it’s logical that they would be doing that.

      • Ben Pottinger

        He’s stockpiling because I suspect no one is buying (like I said above). Most of the new owners I know bought their suppressors before the trust changes went into effect and have *zero* plans to buy any more until: 1> the trust transfer changes are reversed or 2> the HPA passes.

        Very few businesses can deal with giant market spikes followed by big downturns. They inevitably spend to much of the surplus they got during the spike and run out of cash before they can weather the downturn.

        • Michael Lubrecht

          I bought mine a few years back, with a trust. I’d still like to get a couple of pistol-caliber cans, but if HPA passes: I have a lathe and mill, and know how to use them.

    • frankspeak

      have to wonder about all the “papered” suppressors..do we just throw that away??

  • KestrelBike

    When the HPA passes, I’ll spend the $200 I would have on the tax and buy a cheap press, then start making my own. I do not want to sink the $700-1000 and be locked 12mo to the state I’m currently living in (well, without potentially having to have the F4 dealer send F3 it to another state, then have me do the F4 dance all over again waiting for the HPA to pass).

    • BearSlayer338

      You don’t need a press to make suppressors,they are quite simple devices. You probably have almost everything you need to make one in your garage already.

      • KestrelBike

        Press is for properly drilling baffles?

        • BearSlayer338

          A vise and a standard electric drill will do the same job without the extra expense. Unless you need the press for other things as well it just seems like an unnecessary expense.

          • JumpIf NotZero

            A vise and a standard electric drill will do the same job without the extra expense

            LOL.

  • CanfanR

    First, I don’t think it will pass. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think it will.
    2nd: if there is a drop in supply, I think it will be short. Unlike ammo and firearms, the barrier to entry into the market is quite low. You don’t need much tooling to start making cans, heck you can buy kits that just need holes drilled online. You don’t need much r&d to make a mediocre can, tube plus kbaffles. This is not novel technology. Which is my final point, with no tax stamp and wait, cans are no longer lifetime purchases. Mediocre cans are fine. Put one on every gun. The won’t need excellent warranty work because they will be cheap enough to just replace.

    • gabriel brack

      Exactly. I really don’t care about the latest and greatest. I just want to be able to hear when I’m 90. I already have hearing loss from the military. I want a reduction in muzzle blast. I don’t need a suppressor that costs a grand when my shotgun muffs cost me $15 five or six years ago. It would just be nice to have some available without all the hoops.

    • frankspeak

      hell,..you can make a reasonably effective one out of a shampoo bottle and some steel wool..may only last 50 rds or so…but who cares!

  • HMSLion

    I already bought mine. 🙂

  • Christian Hedegaard-Schou

    Wait for HPA to pass. Wait for stocks to get back to normal after the initial run on suppressors with empty shelves during the first 12 months. Then buy once stocks start to return and prices go down.

    If HPA passes, in 2-3 years I predict suppressors will reach bottom as far as price goes just due to sheer volume of sales and use.

  • billyoblivion

    > If it does, they will stop selling suppressors and jack up the price and gouge
    > the customer because the demand will sky rocket.

    “Gouge” the customer?

    F*K anyone who uses that kind of language.

  • Matt

    There won’t be any need for any waiting when suppliers start selling 80% suppressor build kits

    • BearSlayer338

      Suppressors are very simple,80% kits would be not be necessary they are already easier to make than assembling an AR15. All it takes is a little bit of time in a garage and $15 to $25 in parts,only reason I haven’t built a few already is because of the NFA and ATF,if the HPA passes I’ll make a few and sell them while others scramble to buy suppressors.

      • Cymond

        Not everyone has your tools and knowledge. All of my tools are general (screwdrivers, wrenches, etc) or specific to woodworking. I don’t have any machinist tools or experience.

        And in this modern society, people like us are oddities. I’ve known a lot of guys whose tool kits don’t have much more than pliers and a have. I’ve met a few who don’t know how to even use that much.

        Anyway, the point is that those kits are convenient for the average Joe who doesn’t have a machine shop in the garage. It’s a lot easier when all you need is a drill.

        • BearSlayer338

          You sir are making the assumption that I have metal working tools. I do not,but I know how to use what I got. Handguns and smgs are made with basic hand tools all the time what makes you think making a suppressor with basic tools would be so difficult? All you need is a metal tube such as a mag light flashlight and some baffles such as frost plugs,then all you need are some end caps.

          • Cymond

            OK, gotcha.
            I was imagining machining K-baffles or such.
            Drilling out freezer is ready enough, but I’m not sure how I’d handle threading the tube or threading the end caps. For me, the tube kits are still probably the best option.

  • Blake

    Here’s my take on it. If HPA does pass, there may be a run on them but I’d assume companies would eventually ramp up their production. Like any business if you sell more of your product you have more revenue to expand your production volume and make even more money. Also this would open the door for more companies to begin producing them… more competition usually means lower prices. I could see companies like Magpul and multiple big name firearms manufacturers getting into the game. If HPA doesn’t pass you can still pay the $200 stamp fee and deal with the long wait. So nothing different than how it is already. I personally see more upside to waiting and hoping it passes if you’re not in a hurry to get one right now anyways.

    • frankspeak

      at least we got rid of the CLEO requirement…a positive sign!

  • Spartan

    Silencerco. just dumped a whole bunch of money into a big expansion…the big companies (i.e. Silencerco, AAC, Sig Sauer) see the writing on the wall and I would think are just waiting for the surge in demand.

  • DenningersProtoge

    Market dynamics will dictate, if the HPA passes, that a bunch of companies, who have not made suppressors prior, will start making them en masse. Far more people will be considering them for purchase, and even those who have been making them will vie for their market share of the exploding market share. The market will be saturated and prices will plummet under the crushing weight of mass market competition.

    There might be some price gouging early on, but let’s be honest, the internet has a long memory, and any company doing so will likely be blacklisted among the buying masses.

    Fair warning to those manufacturers thinking about drastically raising prices, someone else will make a suppressor as good (or better) than yours at a better price. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.

  • BrandonAKsALot

    No thanks. I plan to make my own at first anyway and let the price fall of it passes.

  • Cal S.

    I’ve waited this long. Reckon I can wait a might longer.

    ‘Solvent traps’ won’t be treated any different than 80% lowers, and suppressors aren’t rocket surgery.

  • fisherman

    Feels like this translates to “41f and a switch in national politics have tanked sales”, hurry buy our stuff….

  • QuadGMoto

    To buy a can now, you have to give your fingerprints to the government. For some reason I’m not too keen on that idea.

    • Vet for Trump

      BAH! I gave them my fingerprints many times. Enlisted in the AF. Fingerprints. Security Clearance. Fingerprints. Top Secret Security Clearance. Fingerprints. Top Secret Special Intelligence Clearance (now Sensitive Compartmented Information, that is Need To Know). You guessed it. Fingerprints. Concealed Carry Permit. Fingerprints. Two Form 1 for suppressors. Fingerprints.
      Don’t know why they keep wanting them, they haven’t changed in 45 years.

      • Phillip Cooper

        Apparently in all those security clearances you missed the part about “not going around telling everyone about it”.

        Good job.

      • frankspeak

        apparently they keep losing them!…not sure what other conclusion you can draw..when I worked for the feds we had to resubmit them every few years..go figure…

    • iksnilol

      You also need to give them for ID. So most likely they’ve already got ’em.

      • QuadGMoto

        Not for drivers license or passport.

        • Norm Glitz

          Do you really think the gummint doesn’t already have your fingerprints?

          • QuadGMoto

            How would they if I’ve never been formally fingerprinted?

          • Sasq Quatch

            Heck, Which government, because of the OPM slackers, the Chinese of mine!!!

        • iksnilol

          Passport does require them if getting a biometric passport (which most are nowadays).

          But yeah, fingerprinting is so normal and faulty that I wouldn’t worry about it. Besides, you aren’t in a criminal database. Unless you’re a suspect in a case they wouldn’t even think to compare.

          • QuadGMoto

            The U.S. government does not require fingerprints for passports. (I just checked to see if that had changed. It hasn’t.)

            It is an unfortunate fact of world history that governments often target those citizens who do not toe the official political line. This is true even of governments which begin as sound, just, and fair, but eventually degrade over time as greedy men scrabble for power. Therefore, I think it is perfectly reasonable to limit any government’s ability to abuse its citizens and concerned about attempts to collect information on them. Heck, that’s the very reason the 2nd Amendment even exists!

          • iksnilol

            US govt does require if you’re becoming a citizen. If you’re born in the country then you for some reason don’t.

            Meh, I don’t care much for my prints. I don’t leave them often.

          • frankspeak

            next up..DNA samples..LOL!

      • Ben Pottinger

        Maybe where you live. I’ve somehow managed to live in a modern city/state for 39 years without ever being fingerprinted. They don’t require it for ID in my state anyway.

  • Swarf

    Of course he says that.

    I can wait. I can wait quite a while, in fact. I’ve already waited nearly 45 years, and I feel okay.

    I don’t need to rush out and give him, or the government my money.

    If the HPA does pass, the prices will eventually come way down. Hopefully to Europe levels, but probably not. Nevertheless, it may well spur great leaps in suppressor tech. Maybe it won’t be too many years before I don’t have to have a Maglite from 1989 screwed on to the end of my pistol.

    Oh, I know, people say that the limits have been reached, but that’s been said about plenty of stuff before.

    I can wait.

  • Michael Lubrecht

    Another benefit if HPA passes is that used silencers will hit the market. The guy that bought a couple and never used them, or has changed calibers and wants to try the latest and greatest will be able to sell off his used ones. Unless it took a baffle strike, a lightly-used silencer would be a nice bargain. Currently, there’s no market for used silencers because the transfers and taxes are just too onerous for a low-budget item.

    • Ben Pottinger

      Bingo. I have a nice 45 can (HEMS II) I never use anymore because I much prefer 9mm at this point. I’d be happy to sell it but there is no market for it right now.

  • Vet for Trump

    That is the opposite of what I heard. Manufacturers have been saying they have to charge high prices due to the limited market because of the paperwork and Tax. If they were treated as any other firearm, just a NICS check, they could lower prices and ramp up production. Me? I still build mine for about 1/3 of a commercial can. And $200 and a 6 month wait.

  • Russell

    I’m patient. I’ll wait for the market to stabilize and prices to fall to sane levels.

  • De Facto

    Fram suppressors will be available for cheap until the silencer industry and gun stores stop the price gouging. Not worried.

  • Malthrak

    Anyone assuming the HPA is gonna pass and do so any time soon is drinking the echo-chamber kool-aid.

    It may pass, I hope it does, I *really* hope it does, but it may not, and historically changes to the NFA have never made it far unless part of a larger package of gun measures, and are rarely to our benefit.

    Even if it does pass, it may be several years before everything makes it through.

    If you really want a suppressor, don’t worry about supplier manipulation of product or price gouging or that sort of thing, whether you need it in the next several *years* or not should be the determinant. Even if the HPA goes through relatively soon, it’d probably be 2018 or 2019 before it actually came into effect at the earliest I’d imagine, more than enough time to make that $200 and 9 month ATF wait seem like chump change if you’re looking for one *now* so even just “soon”.

    • frankspeak

      just hope they don’t do anything about class III weapons until I can sell mine..LOL!

  • Vet for Trump

    I never know which sites allow links or not. The post with the link was deleted.
    Page 16 has the total number of suppressors registered as of Feb.2016.

    www dot atf dot gov/resource-center/docs/2016-firearms-commerce-united-states/download

  • With prices and wait times at an all-time high, plus a $200 tax, plus rapid technical innovations, plus the first realistic chance since the Great Depression to get them removed from the NFA entirely… the time to buy is ANYTHING but now.

  • B. Young

    The HPA has a clause that anybody buying a suppressor after sometine in 2015 when the law was initially presented be given a refund of the $200 tax stamp.

    • Stevo

      I would give it a high probability that aspect will be stripped from the final version. It is a good bargaining aspect, supporters can say “Look, we are compromising by taking out the refund”.

  • datimes

    I wouldn’t bank too heavily on the passage of the HPA. It can only be passed with the cooperation of a majority of nitwits in DC.

    • frankspeak

      ATF input will count for a lot…and right now they’re in the process of altering their stance….

  • Lone Eagle

    Reminds me of a certain online retailer with the initials CTD right after a certain school shooting..

    “Holy hell, buy now before Obama bans it!!! 1000 rounds of LC 5.56 for the low, low price of $999.99+S&H.”

    • DIR911911 .

      that kind of crap is disgraceful

      • L. Roger Rich

        You want hillary for President?

        • Cymond

          Who said anything about HRC?
          I mean, besides you.

          • L. Roger Rich

            Reply to DIR 911911 said That kind of crap is disgraceful. Making fun of CTR. Hillary Lost thank god.

          • Cymond

            CTD’s behavior was disgraceful. They made up some BS excuse to cancel their backorders and instead sold those products at extreme prices.

            While I support their legal right to do so, it doesn’t make them any less scum.

            Again, what does CTD have to do with HRC? When did DIR911911 say anything supportive of HRC?

          • L. Roger Rich

            Not talking to you. You say Obama I say Hillary Clinton. I do not work at CTD they never ripped me off. I have 2 silencers myself and have had them for a decade. Sorry you lived in CA and happy you moved.

          • frankspeak

            now to get the right guy on the SCOTUS..after that it’s all gravy..and mission accomplished for trump!…

      • frankspeak

        still got a problem with rimfire….

  • valorius

    HPA could be passed very quickly if it’s attached to another bill the dems REALLY want, such as an infrastructure bill. No one knows what’s going to happen with HPA, or when.

  • valorius

    Once HPA passes, suppressors will be $100 items, if you don’t just build your own at home for $20.

    • iksnilol

      More like 300 dollar items.

      • valorius

        Suppressors are very cheap to construct. The prices in the US are totally artificial.

        • iksnilol

          Well, in Norway the prices aren’t artificial and the cheapest usable suppressors cost about the equivalent of 250-350 USD.

          It still requires R&D and y’know, an overhead, and of course pay to the workers making it.

          • valorius

            You can actually build a functional suppressor with a $10 oil filter adapter (called an oil trap, i believe) and $10 oil filter. There are videos on google.

          • iksnilol

            I know.

            You can also make a shotgun outta two schedule 40 pipes, a roofing nail and an endcap.

            Don’t mean it is good in comparison to proper built version.

          • valorius

            My point is that a functional suppressor can be made for almost nothing. Even a proper model with baffles and wipes can be assembled for about $20. There are videos showing how on you tube.

          • iksnilol

            A slamfire shotgun is still functional.

          • Ben Pottinger

            Id say your pretty close to on the mark for centerfire suppressors. Maybe a little more for handgun cans needing boosters and a little less for cheap rifle suppressors.

            Rimfire stuff is where you will see the absolute bottom of the barrel pricing.

        • frankspeak

          these gadgets are only likely to be used on the range..not lugged around in the field..and adding additional bulk to a pistol defeats its purpose..so, basically much ado about nothing..even back in the 30’s when they passed the “gangster gun act”..the underworld rarely used them…always crack up when I see one on a revolver..only in hollywood!

    • Vet for Trump

      My form 1 suppressor for my 5.56 cost me about $100 in parts, give or take, didn’t keep a record. The 30 Caliber was $190.95 in parts, shipping included. I kept a record on that one.

      • iksnilol

        So if that one was commercially produced you could expect it to sell for 200-300? Assuming 100-150 bucks is enough overhead to cover production and profit (assuming it’ll be a bit cheaper on larger scale).

        So about the price I predicted.

  • Tony O

    All of you saying “if, if, if” with the tone that it’s basically a given that HPA will pass. You say “if” but you assume it will pass. And what happens then, should it not pass? You’ll wait longer. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE if you do the paperwork now.

    Legislation says you get your $200 back. If it passes, yay, you get it back. If it doesn’t pass, well you’d have to pay it anyway. If the $200 tax remains, but the rest of the bill passes, well…you still have to pay it.

    Legislation says no more registration. If it passes, no more registration. If it doesn’t pass, well you still have to register it. If the registration remains, but everything else passes…you still have to register it.

    Legislation makes for no more wait time. You have to wait *anyway*. Might as well have the paperwork going, so that wait time doesn’t go to waste in the event the legislation doesn’t pass.

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for it. The Dems will fight tooth and nail against it. Republicans only have a simple majority in the Senate, not a true majority. At least 9 Dems will be needed to pass it, and that’s if every Republican is on board. L…O…L.

    All that being said, wait times on Forms 1 and 4 are already going down significantly due to less and less people filing NFA applications, waiting to see what happens. I wish you luck, but I’ve already got my Form 4s submitted.

    • Vet for Trump

      They don’t need 60 votes. A simply majority is needed. 60 votes is for SCOTUS confirmation.

    • Cymond

      I’ve waited enough already. I’ve been interested in suppressors since 2007. After a decade of moving around, including 3 years on CA, we’re finally settled in a permanent location (at least, we believe). I ordered one in February, did the Form 4 in June, and am still waiting. I think I’d lose my mind if I hadn’t started the process when I did, and regret not doing it sooner. I should have ordered the day I left CA.

      I wonder if all these people who give excuses not to buy a suppressor (wait time, $200 tax, registration) are really being honest with themselves. I expect most of them to still have some excuse to keep waiting, even if HPA does pass.

  • hANNABONE

    how hard is it to turn out a suppressor? What, a tube, threaded ends and some baffles. Granted – R & D built in, but what would hold them back from rolling them out as soon as they could be made. This article is foolish…and anyone who is fool-hearty enough to “…run out and get yours today – so it has your name on it…” is just that – foolish. I’ll take my chances on waiting and acting when the new Admin. gets the ducks lined up. That’s when my money hits the table, not before.

    • Anton_Zilwicki

      Any decent machine shop can knock one out in Stainless for about $35 in materials and maybe $50-100 shop time and labor. Less than $200 for a decent centerfire rifle suppressor. maybe $25 for a handgun unit. Huge margins for these guys after the initial set up.

  • Galeisniper

    Guys don’t forget, 42 states have a state law prohibiting the possession of silencers. Their law holds an exemption for suppressors legally registered under the NFA. When HPA passes, those states will have to change their state laws as well. And that’s assuming they will!

    • Cottersay

      Well, that really sucks.

  • ozzallos .

    Please. The bottom is going to fall out of the suprressor market the moment it passes. Im sure their will be an initial run on the product, but if you were patient enough to wait for the bill to pass, im sure you can wait out the opening day sales frenzy of still not so great prices for impulse buyers.

  • uffdaphil

    Could not Trump by executive order simply say the 4473 will suffice at point of purchase? And have the FFL collect the (much lower?) tax at the same time?

    • Anton_Zilwicki

      Why ANY tax at all? Why on a 4473? It’s a damn muffler FFS! Even if you make one out of Titanium it still is only $60 in materials. Maybe $20 in machine time Maybe $100 labor on top of that. $180 suppressor in a blisterpack sold next to hearing protectors and truck balls.

      • uffdaphil

        I’m for no tax or paperwork like some other countries, but the perfect is the enemy of the good. If we can’t get the ideal HPA passed, I’m looking for a second best compromise just in case Congress wimps out.

        • Anton_Zilwicki

          Compromise is the last bastion of the uncommitted. Obama is gone no more compromise. These people work for US dammit!

      • frankspeak

        valid point..that…

  • Barry

    The current price of a suppressor reflects the low volumes that they sell in. A metal tube with baffles and no moving parts shouldn’t cost more than a complete firearm if this limit is removed. Many new manufacturers will jump in if the market grows driving down prices.

    I’m still skeptical that HPA will pass in the next two years. Democrats will filibuster in the Senate. If Republicans gain supermajority in 2018 it has a chance.

    So the underlying premise is true. If you want a suppressor and can afford it, get one now.

  • NewerHCE

    This makes no sense. HPA will increase demand and competition. There may be an immediate spike, but then prices should fall.

    • Tom Currie

      Yeah, right.

      • kcshooter

        Yeah, he is right. With deregulation comes innovation.

        • Tom Currie

          I was talking about his notion that prices would fall after only an “immediate” spike.

          A change in the status of suppressors will lead to SOME “innovation” but that innovation will primarily be in ways to make the product cheaper, not better. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some VERY cheap suppressors arriving from China where they have already discovered that the secret to selling anything on the US market is to completely skip Quality Control and price the product at less than half the price of competitors who waste money on QC.

  • Renov8

    BS….some of the most retarded articles I read are on this forum….are they written by 4th graders?

  • Anton_Zilwicki

    I absolutely refuse to pay a $200 tax for a jumped up lawn mower muffler. And Alpha Dog can kiss my ass.

  • Anton_Zilwicki

    When the HPA passes there will be no rush to buy a suppressor. Any shortages will be by connivance of the manufacturers to jack the prices up. But WTF? I have 3 feet of 2″ Inconel tube and a TIG welder. A CNC mill and time on my hands. As soon as the HPA passes I’ll solve my own needs TYVM.

  • kcshooter

    The two hundred bucks is a big deal to lots of people.
    And it’s a douchebag thing to say, buddy.

    • frankspeak

      hollywood is largely to blame for the idea of registering them in the first place….

  • I sure wish I had the kind of income level where I could just toss “$200 is no big deal” down on the table and walk away like nothing happened.

  • iksnilol

    Yeah, the smallest rimfire silencer is that cheap.

    *facepalm*

    I doubt you’re gonna mount that on your AR-15.

    It’s like me saying handguns are cheap in the US, then citing Jimenez or Raven arms.

  • JoelM

    Yes people too easily forget the run that happened in 2004 when the AWB expired and suddenly fun things were easier to get and everyone wanted fun things.

  • Michael Lubrecht

    After thinking a bit more on this. Even if the HPA fails, couldn’t Trump issue an executive order to the BATFE to not enforce the suppressor provisions of the NFA? Of course, the problem with that is the law still exists, and the EA could be rescinded in the future.

  • foulpet

    I’ll just make my own if the jack up prices since it will be legal to do it. They are just szitting their pants to burn through what they have before it happens.

  • Andrew Davis

    If the HPA passes there may well be a spike in purchases temporarily and demand may well drive prices up, but two things to consider: 1) while they may be stock piling and jack up the prices there are also likely to 10,000 more suppressor manufacturers popping up immediately, so within a year, the market will stabilize on lower prices as it saturates (and this doesn’t factor in the people with their solvent trap kits and drill presses). The truth is, suppressor technology makes only minor advances, but the core physics remain mostly unchanged so, yes, a company can pop up, buy a few CNC machines, and start mass producing cheap, but effective suppressors (Kel Tec has been doing this with guns in FL for years… they’re a boat company with the tools needed to make guns… just wait til they can made a $100 suppressor). 2) we don’t know exactly what will happen to in-process or previous purchases if HPA passes. Not all laws are retro-active. It may well be that any already bought or in process remain subject to old law while only new ones are impacted by the new laws (we see this today with drug convictions and people from the 80’s and 90’s getting 20 years for a gram of weed and still doing time while buying a gram is legal for recreational use in some states). Personally I would rather wait and see where HPA goes in the next 12-18 months and then make a decision. It seems the Alpha Dog team is more concerned about a slump in sales now just as happens every year for 3 months before the new iPhone comes out. Last thought… its still 6-9 months for a stamp to get approved, but in 6-9 months we should have a much better idea of the status of HPA and its likelihood of being passed.

  • frankspeak

    WRONG!..waiting is exactly what you should do..if it passes prices will [eventually] tank…