The HK G36 is dead. Long live the G36! German Police buys it.

Following the terror attacks in Frankfurt, Hanover, Würzburg, Ansbach and Berlin it is clear that more and more of the regional German Police Forces are getting reinforcements in terms of 5,56×45 mm carbines.

Obviously, they’re getting other passive and active training and equipment, but we focus on the firearm.

TFB has already reported about several German Police forces getting the Haenel CR223 rifle in semi-automatic.

You can argue all you want about which handgun caliber is the best, 9 mm, .10 mm or .45.

The battle in Europe is that the 9×19 mm carbines like the HK MP5 are not enough, and that the 5,56×45 caliber is needed for the new challenges of terrorism.

It is now time for the Police in Schleswig-Holstein (Northern Germany, Hamburg / Kiel area) to get Heckler & Koch G36 Cs.


The goal is is that Police officers should be able to react faster and better to possible terrorist attacks, and the HK G36s are primarily for the special units.

According to the source, the area will have 522 G36Cs in addition to the current 941 HK MP5s and 140 (obsolete) HK G3s. The thought is that there should be one HK G36 in every Mercedes-Vito Police car. 

The estimated total cost for this investment is about two million euros, and the decision is described as very controversial.

We don’t discuss the political background, but it’s worth noting that some individuals didn’t like the “militarization” of the Police and that there was no need to equip “every Police car”. Rifles like the G36 should be reserved for the Special Forces.


In any case, the G36s are about to get bought and the money for the G36 investment has been provided by the regional government in the 2017 budget.

If the G36Cs will have full-auto or semi-auto only is not known, I am sure Heckler & Koch can provide both.

For the record, the French unit BAC got the HK G36 recently as well. Source:



If my understanding is correct, one of the local politicians, Stefan Studt, has said that the Police is not getting the same controversial version of the HK G36 as the German Army is using, but a much shorter version. I buy that the “C” version is shorter, but that it would a be less controversial choice? No.

Funny enough, the German Police Haenel CR223s I’ve seen have been equipped with EOTech sights.

Eric B

Ex-Arctic Ranger. Competitive practical shooter and hunter with an European focus. Always ready to increase my collection of modern semi-automatic firearms, optics and sound suppressors. Owning the night would be nice too.


  • Ben

    The height on that eotech…I’d rather just use irons.

    • ColonelColt

      That stock and high sight combination is most likely to enable the use of gas masks and face shields. This is one of the reasons why Russian optics are usually so high and off to the left.

      • ProLiberty82

        They have special stocks for that (like the one in the last picture), I think rather it’s a remnant of an old sight contract the German military or HK had with Eotech and now the police gets them in their G36 hand me down arrangement. That setup is far FAR from optimal even for use of varius protective masks.

    • Barantos of ReCon

      I know right, not to mention why are they putting an eotech on top of the proprietary optical sight?

      Also a side not why the G36? I don’t know where this gun comes out ahead of any of the other potential firearms. I feel like they must have gotten a crazy cheap deal on these.

      • int19h

        Because they already have tons of G36 that the military is dumping, that have to go somewhere anyway? How many parts between G36 and G36C are interchangeable? If they only need to replace the barrel…

      • RyanA

        EoTech on top of the proprietary optical sight because the sight on the G36 won’t hold zero. Our police department SWAT team used G36’s for a short time and found they wouldn’t hold zero. HK replaced the sights with EoTechs at their expense before we dumped the whole system. The rifle was reliable, but at 4-8 MOA, not suitable even at ranges under 100 yards.

        • Barantos of ReCon

          so why not take off the whole handle and mount the sight lower?

    • ProLiberty82

      And what about the parallax, with the sight that high of the gun it will be impossible to get a consistent cheek-rest and the shots would group poorly. Also the extreme height over bore would mean you shoot way high or low when going from 10m to 50m etc, just really a bad setup all together.

      • Ben

        Maybe they put it that high so you can still use the Red Dot while you’re firing from the hip ?

      • chris

        Whats the problem with the high red dot? OK it dosent look so nice but for short ranges you should be able to hit even with a low cheek rest. Also no you dont shoot way high or low anywhere from 3m to 150m. Ever used a configuration like this as a professional shooter?
        Also in a clutered enviroment it makes for really fast target pick up with your scope and very fast transition between fast reaction shots and very accurate fire over medium ranges or on small targets and then you got a good cheek rest for the scope.

        • ProLiberty82

          Like I stated above, parallax and height over bore, they are real things, look them up. And no, I’ve not actually shot people in a professional capacity with a configuration just like that, but I’ve shot plenty of guns that have had the problems I described with far less of an extreme setup.

          And my question to you, have you shot a gun, like ever?

          • Sgt. Stedenko

            Airsoft, bro.

          • A bearded being from beyond ti


          • chris

            I shot an g36 in a similar configuraten as part of my job so yes i have shot a gun.
            And waht is the problem with a bit more height over bore if you train with it. Just look at most DMR rifles with much bigger scopes and a red dot on top of that and it still works.

        • RSG

          Well, if a head shot is necessary, the shooter would be forced to hold over in “dead space”, over the targets head. Often times there is no reference, either.

          • chris

            regular police usualy shoots center target and if you really wanted to do a headshot you can just use the scope.

        • Bill

          The offset on an AR is a thing, this moreso. At close range you may actually have to hold the dot completely off the target. It’s also a hassle when shooting from behind cover: your sight picture will be nice and clean while your muzzle is still behind a brick wall. Not fun.

      • Friend of Tibet

        Not at all.

        As long as you know the red dot’s zero distance and basic understanding of the bullistic physics.

        If you zero the “high mounted dot” at 25 meters, then keep that in mind. When you engaging target closer than that, aim 3 inches higher to compensate it. within 50 meters there should be no problem hit target.

        Even for AR15 you still need to do the same compensation when engaging close target shorter than zeroing distance.

    • BattleshipGrey
      They need to go with an offset mount if they really have all that pic rail in front of the standard optic. I’m assuming the standard is a fixed power 1.5 or 3x. So the Eotech isn’t really all that necessary.

  • Audie Bakerson

    I was expecting the army was offloading their G36s to police, who wouldn’t fire enough to experience the issues.

    New production though? Got to wonder why they went with a G36 variant instead of an AR variant.

    Also that picture: Buy a light carbine so you can stick heavy junk on it!

    • forrest1985

      I was also as puzzled! Surely the Army should pass on some of their G36 stock to police and use the funds for a newer rifle. In addition it made sense not taking purchase of CR223’s and again taking on more G36’s would also have been a better move.

      • micmac80

        Army ,they are far too busy offloading them too Syria, Iraq ,afghanistan

      • User

        Yes and no, these here are special carbines for use with large helmets (not the stock). Theyr have little use for full sized insanly long G36 20″ barrel.

        The Rifle choice and testing is not done yet. Also its highly questionable if it even makes sence to spend hundrets of millions just for something that actually can not make any performance increase. Replacing direct frontline weapons is no problem, but the rest is a pure waist of money for nothing. New technology is verry verry close, adopting now something and beeing stuck with it again for decades is a hilarious pure waist.

        • User

          *note the stock

    • Bradley

      This may not actually be what you’re trying get to say, but I don’t get this whole “why would you make a weapon lightweight if you’re going to add weight to it.” I mean the more weight you add it makes more sense to me to make the original weapon as light as possible. If you add two pounds to a six pound rifle it weighs eight pounds. If you add two pounds to anot eight pound rifle it weighs ten pounds. I’m not trying to pick your comment apart, but hopefully you see what I mean and recognize the concept I’m referring to.

    • iksnilol

      I dunno, I doubt you can use an AR due to the buffer tube.

      *with the helmets and visors.

      • Kivaari

        That’s where those obnoxiously high mounts come into play. Poor for any use except with helmet and face shield in use. In the Army we had to qualify with the M16 while in helmet and gas mask. It is near impossible to see the sights. A tall red dot sight would have been ideal.

  • Martin M

    I love how the G3 is considered “obsolete”. I’ll take three, please!

    • User

      It is technically and ergonomicly obsolete, not even mentioning weight, the Polizei is not shooting for fun or enjoyment of historic firearms.

      • Joe

        Well, if 9mm isn’t cutting it, and you have 7.62 NATO… trash them both, ignore potential Army surplus G36, and spend money. No dog in fight, just sayin.

        • mig1nc

          IMHO the G3 would be better at stopping truck attacks than a 9″ 5.56mm carbine.

          • User

            M855A1 EPR goes trough lvl3+ steel…

            Has far less recoil, more rounds per mag, lighter rounds, etc.

          • mig1nc

            Yeah, but from a 9″ barrel? I’d have to see test results before buying into that vs a truck.

            EDIT: And Germany isn’t using M855A1 yet AFAIK. Though I could be wrong, certainly.

          • User

            And 7.62×51 will produce insane blast from a 9″ barrel, the mag and chamber is longer, for the same overall lenght barrel lenght is reduced further. So whats even your point.

          • mig1nc

            What the heck? I am comparing a stock rack grade G36C and a stock rack grade G3. Where the hell did you get that I was talking about a 9″ 7.62×51?

          • User

            Were speaking about police. So theres no sence in comparing a G36C to a full lenght G3. As said for the same overall length a G3 has a shorter barrel.

            Stupid weight, totally stupid recoil, high ammo weight, less mag capacity, etc. And resulting big problems when bringing down to carbine lenght as already noted.

            If you give a police woman a G3, % hit propability goes way way down.

          • J Garcia Sampedro

            There is when, for example, Spanish police carry the full-length CETME C (G3 is the German later version) alongside G36C, in the middle of big cities.

            On the other hand, an old idea suggets that a battle rifle (or the low-capacity, high-recoil shotgun) “forces” the shooter to aim, while light calibers “promote” rapid fire (thos G36 are going to be selective fire?). Of course, this cannot be considered true for every shooter (has any study been made?), but is a long-lasting concept.

          • User

            … this is PURE tryhard cherry picking. Yes verry intensive studys have been made, 5.56×45 resulted in an increase of hit propability of over 300% in stress situations.

          • FarmerB

            Well, that’s where reading too much Internet flies in the face of reality. Bullets can only do the work on the target that is reflected in the energy they are given. The 7.62 will impart a lot more energy to the truck than an out-of-breath 5.56. Even Kryptonite bullets in a 9″ gun aren’t going to do magic.

          • User

            Blast, propellant waist, flash go to a stupid level with 7.62×51 out of that barrel + its barrel would be even shorter because the barrel starts further out due to cartridge and chamber lenght.

            And you dont want to give a normal police unit a 7.62×51.
            Hit propability is key.

          • J Garcia Sampedro

            In Spain, Policia Nacional patrols (mostly the reinforcement presential squads since terrorist alert reached current level) in big cities carries two CETME Cs and one G36C per “squad”. And these patrols are composed of “normal cops”.
            So yeah, they give cops 7’62 NATO battle rifles instead of 9mm SMGs (don’t know when they stopped issueing them to these patrols).

          • User

            These police units want short light carbines, theyr not in some mountains fighting someone every day. 7.62×51 will produce insane blast from a short” barrel, the mag and chamber is longer, for the same overall lenght barrel lenght is reduced further.

            If you want added penetration (and still instant fragmentation in flesh) take M855A1 EPR, it goes trough LVL3+ steel, where 7.62x54R Steelcore doesnt go trough with serval shot..!

            If a police woman hear shots takes her G36C out of the car, she has light recoil, and its less frontheavy.
            If she takes out a CETME or CETME C, she has far harsher recoil, 2.84 lbs-sec recoil impulse and 18.51 ft-lbf recoil energy. While 5.56×45 at 1852J has 1.47lbs-sec and 4.94 ft-lbf, thats a diffrence of 193% and 374% !
            Hit propability is absolute key. A fragmenting 5.56×45 will put a shooter down, and almost always instantly. Absolute everything depends on if the firer hits one shot, and 5.56×45 reigns supreme in this area, and even far more in the hands of normal medium trained police.
            With 7.62×51 you have less rounds/ or same rounds for double the weight, and less magazin capacity. Further the gun Parts weight more, and as said for the same overall lenght, barrel lenght is shorter.

          • FarmerB

            My FAL is stamped with Singapore Police mark 🙂 not sure about your obsession with 9″ barrel in 7.62 – I never mentioned it. 9″ is too short for 5.56 really.

          • User

            Yes 9″ isnt perfect for 5.56×45, but not as bad as for 7.62×51 and as said action lenght of 7.62×51 = shorter barrel for same overall lenght (and heavyer parts).

            In my opinion, a direct cartridge for police units should be designed from the ground up. At best on the base of 5.56×45, that mag lenght, bolthead etc stays the same, barrel lenght is a mix of wanted energy and bore volume, high bore volume = more energy from shorter barrel, usually this has downsides with a thicker un-aerodynamic projectile, but that doesnt matter for police SBR’s, also the projectile should be rather light for its diameter, KE=m x v² while p=m x v , therefore for the same Energy, a fast projectile has less recoil than a slow heavy one. And rounds are lighter due to less bullet mass and light powder. Also a expanding/fragmenting projectile (expanding is better for surgerys), with high speed and medium weight has better terinal effect than a projectile that travels slower trough the target loosing less energy and risking casualtys behind the person.

            (i also think for police a wider bore than of .300blk is more usefull, which would increase bore volume)

            So you would have more efficient propellant use, less flash, blast, recoil. And get more energy in an efficient way.

      • FarmerB

        Hardly. As a battle rifle I’d take the G3 over the MR308/417. And that AR-10 charging arrangement sucks if you want to talk ergonomics.

        • CommonSense23

          Explain how the charging sucks with the AR.

          • Quest

            I tought that too for a long time. But then realized that basicly you only need to use it once… When inserting the first mag and chambering the first round at a day. Than you have the bolt release everytime. (wich the G3 has not)

          • FarmerB

            Yeah – I used to think that also, until I’ve had to use it…

          • User

            I never sayd its perfect, it definitly isnt. But its far less a problem than people assume, because you dont use it often.

            And cutting a slot in the receiver at the left side will be stupid for reliability.

          • Major Tom

            The stock charging handle on the M16/AR platform is thin, out of the way of most natural hand motions, unintuitive, placed in an intrusive area on the top and has nothing to grab ahold of.

            It tells you something when every single aftermarket AR charger has like at least twice the width on their handle part. Every other charging handle design in the world is better than the AR’s.

          • User

            AK charging handle is a pain in the butt. And opens the receiver. And even worse in reliablitly therms are left side charging handle that requires a receiver slot. Mud gets in there really fast. Not with this kind of charging handle. And as sayd you use it like once a day…

          • Major Tom

            AK charging handle is on the right and only opens the extraction port. It moves along its own dedicated slot and that slot doesn’t really care much if it gets a little mud in it. Very few if any AK parts are what you call “sensitive”.

            Same thing with a FAL charging handle only it’s on the left instead of the right. The G3’s is on the left fore-end and just a switch slot.

            And you do use the AR charging handle more than once. If you ever need to clear the chamber to fix a jam/misfeed then you’ll use it more than just once.

          • iksnilol

            A pain in the butt, yet it is the same config as bolt actions. And bolt actions use their charging handles waaay more than any AR.

          • FarmerB

            Well others have done a pretty great job explaining it. But the AR-10 types are even worse than the AR-15’s. The tension in the spring is just too strong for the puny little POS handle. You really need to grab both sides of the handle to cycle the rifle, and that’s impossible from prone.

            I finally decided it was the gun and not me when I had a problem (grease plus suppressor debris plus uncleaned time not good) with a H&K MR308 and I needed quite a few manipulations to get through a few magazines. Well, it’s impossible to work the action lying prone behind the rifle. You need to basically roll to one side and get your face out of the way and then grab it on both sides with one hand and pull it back past your ear.
            Ergo = NOT!

    • DataMatters

      1950s rifles, so yeah. I still love my FAL, though.

  • Snake eyes

    Any of those “obsolete” g3s you can just send to me. Ill take good care of them, boy scouts honor….

    • J Garcia Sampedro

      In Spain, the Policia Nacional still uses the CETME C.
      Even in patrols at possible terrorist targets in urban areas, at least one or two per van (squad), plus a G36C (lucky them, it’s not the export variant).

  • tiger

    Can you picture the guys on Adam 12 packing H&K G36’s in their Plymouth? Damn police work has changed.

    • Kivaari

      In the Adam 12 era we were lucky to have shotguns. Training was non-existent.

  • Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen

    Do you even cheek weld bro?

    • Mazryonh

      Not when you’re using a gas mask or ballistic face shield you can’t.

  • Mazryonh

    Weren’t the German Police also using the MP7 earlier? I guess the acquisition of G36C carbines means that this is an admission that the MP7s weren’t good enough, despite being very compact and their use of AP ammo.

    • chris

      Regular police in Germany nevver used MP7s only swat like units like SEK, MEK and GSG9 used it and still use it.

      • Mazryonh

        Hmm, I thought that the MP7’s size compared to the G36C means that it would be more comfortable to carry for officers patrolling primarily by foot, or be easier to stash in a motorcycle’s carry bags. The G36C will probably be kept for officers assigned to vans and cars.

        • chris

          In germany police usually just carris pistoles and have a mp5 in the car or carry one patrolling only airports and railway stations.

  • Why dont they just take old army g36 rifles that they dont want anymore instead of buying new?

    • User

      These here are special carbines for use with large helmets (note the stock). They have little use for full sized insanly long G36 20″ barrel.

      • stock and barrel/fore end replacements arent that hard…

        • User

          Do you as a police want to have a worn G36, used over years by grunts?

          • I’m not a german taxpayer so I have no horse in this race, but it seems like the police will rarely ever use the g36 rifle so theres no need to buy new stuff when there is perfectly good surplus from the bundeswehr

          • Johannes von’ Strauch

            Im a german taxpayer and have not the slightest problems with it. You need to change the barrel, handquard, top rail, gas port place and piston rod, new specialized stock, etc….

            And then after playing lego for days with those parts to convert all them, you might end up with some worn Rifles used since a decade.

        • GD Ajax

          A G36C is more than just a new handguard, barrel and stock replacement of the G36. It also has a different a different flash hider. While the gas block is moved forward and the gas piston rod is shorter.

    • John

      Probably because the old army G36s have melted handguards and other plastic bits after being used in combat for so long.

      Old AR-15s can be passed along, because they’re mostly made of metal. Parts can be fixed and replaced on those. Not so with plastic. May as well pay for brand new ones that will last a little longer.

      Also, many German departments are switching to the AR anyway.

  • GD Ajax

    The G36’s problems were over exaggerated by AR-15 fanbois. Who jumped after low hanging fruit due to decades of butthurt from decades of criticism of their own rifle.

    • roguetechie

      Except for the little fact that yeah that’s bullshit…

      I guess it’s your story and you’re gonna tell it the way you want to.

    • n0truscotsman

      Not exaggerated at all. And of course they jumped on it, after incessant cries from Heckler & Kock fanboys claming for decades that the G36 is superior to the AR.

  • Phaedrus

    The G3 is “obsolete” in the same way the 1911 is…which is to say they’re both killing scores of bad guys around the world to this very day, and will likely still be serving in another couple decades.

  • Kivaari

    Controversial “militarization” of the police because the new army-looking rifle is scary looking as oppossed to the military-looking MP5 sub machine gun. The public in the US and Germany is really mentally wimpified.

    • John

      Because when you’re given a whole lot of military gear and –NO– proper training to use it, you get cops itching to shoot people with their new-to-them weapons over the slightest provocation, which is not the point of civilian police at all.

      I like this blog. But I recognize that some people get the newest toys when they should be getting the newest education instead.

    • Reader

      I live in Germany. Its totally fine. Germans mostly find it interesting to see police with Maschinpistolen and Sturmgewehre. There is just a few number of people who are scared by it. Our trust in police is verry high here.

  • thedarkknightreturns

    9mm out of a pistol carbine/Subgun like an MP5 tears through vehicles better than most 5.56 out there. Particularly loaded with the hot ammo made for subguns like Hirtenberger. The move to .223 carbines be LE here has been partly due to the reduced risk of excessive penetration on stick frame houses. I have seen a three round burst from an MP5 sail through a bad guy, three interior walls, out the front of a house and they kept going and were never recovered later. Most 5.56 rounds just do not stay together through autoglass and sheet metal. Some of the newer 5.56/223 is better like the ‘Corps SOST and Federal bonded soft point stuff. Rifle rounds, however, would be what you would want for getting at people behind body armor, and even a 10.5″ shorty AR or similar would give you better range than an MP5. Shots in typical active shooter scenarios are taken from very close distances. I wouldn’t feel bad about being armed with either, but would probably ultimately settle on a shorty AR with a can.

    • Mazryonh

      A shorty AR is one with a lot of pressure (including noise and flash) coming out of the muzzle with every shot, which wears out sound suppressors more quickly than usual and makes them less effective (because you’re starting with a higher sound level to begin with), along with increased wear in the operation system due to higher gas pressures.

      Most SMGs don’t have those problems and you can get effective heavy subsonic rounds for minimum firing sounds. The burst you mention that went through a person and then through several barriers was probably FMJ, because hollowpoints are supposed to prevent overpenetration in human tissue. The Russians have even made AP loadings for the 9mm Para cartridge too.

      • iksnilol

        I think he mentioned the can because the gun isn’t really tolerable without it.

        • thedarkknightreturns

          Yes, a suppressor on a short AR works wonders. Short ARs are very disruptive when clearing buildings and in close quarters. If you want a demo, close yourself into one of those ubiquitous metal dumpsters with an AR equipped with an A2 and pop it off a couple times and you will see why the suppressed MP5 has dominated CQB for so long. And to a few of Mazryonhs’ points; Short barreled ARs are pretty good these days, a lot has been done to mitigate what you are describing. You can think I am BS’n you but the shorter ARs tend to have a longer shelf life than the full size ones. The shorter barrels are also more accurate for the given distance because they are stiffer and have less “whip” (has to do with harmonics) Newer suppressors from Surefire and the like have done much to address the back pressure issues in DI guns. Noveske and others have made adjustable gas systems that also help. I run a DI Noveske with a suppressor though. Heavier buffers and springs are another must. Also stainless/nitrided barrels have damn near eliminated the throat erosion problems that super hot little cartridges like 5.56 have. The Russians and their +p+ AP 9mm is not a new thing, I have some European made blacktip subgun ammo laying around somewhere that was acquired a long time ago when one could find such things. Also the ammo in question that the SWAT guys experienced major over penetration with was 147gr. Speer Gold Dot, they didn’t open up, would be my suspicion. This is something pretty common that I see with 9mm hollowpoints, they like a sweet spot in terms of velocity and conditions, or they just become expensive FMJs.

  • RSG

    Lol @ the optic over bore distance.

  • It’s a logical choice if going with a German made rifle. HK 416 lacks a folding stock, so it can’t be easily stashed in the door compartment lockers the Germans used for their MP5’s, or stored discreetly in bags for plain clothes work.

    Barrel warm up/ trunnion melting is also not likely to be an issue.

    However the stacked optic set up is absurd and should be ditched asap. The height over bore looks to be 5″ or so with that EOTECH. They’d be much better off with a low mounted 1.5x ACOG (splits the difference between the speed of a red dot and precision of a 3x optic) and then a visible green laser for use with a gas mask/ballistic shield.

  • valorius

    Every independent test i’ve seen shows that the HK G36 is an excellent weapon.

    • User

      Yes its definitly not perfect, but still verry good. And the helmet visor stock is not really possible with a buffer tube, instead of designing a new weapon or make contracts its faster to just buy a few reliable G36C with the secialized stock.

    • roguetechie


      Unlike the Russians who give the monkey model rejects to foreigners…

      HK provided a good rifle to EVERYONE but the German army.

      I know you’re probably thinking I really need to quit drinking before noon, but I’m not joking… This is really what happened

      • User

        Hk had a normal defensive and another variant for extrem conditions, quess what the goverment choosed? The one that did cost 5eur less.

        Also the ammo manufacturer made too thick M855 steel inserts which contacted the rifling and caused heat and wear.

      • valorius

        Why would a company with a reputation for excellence knowingly destroy that reputation while at the same time costing itself billions in future orders over the ensuing decades from Germany?

        Germans are obsessed with engineering excellence.

        • roguetechie

          Tbh… It really doesn’t make sense to me either but there’s apparently evidence that they used very substandard polymer in some of the guns that went to the German army.

          I frankly wonder the same things you do, but I personally write it off to the same sort of behavior we see from American government contractors too.

          • valorius

            Well i can’t argue with your last point. (sadly).

  • Bob

    so tell me, how in the world do you get a cheek weld and still get your eyeball HIGH enough to look through that E-otech lookalike red dot??

  • Kivaari

    Why would the police want old G36 rifles when they can buy new G36 carbines and get what they want. Buying new gives them a better ability to track what each gun has been used. Would you want a used rifle when you want a carbine. Would you prefer to have everything start off as new so that repairs would be fewer and likely delayed for decades over rifles that have been around the block. It’s like buying used MP5s from a police department. Just how many rounds were through the guns before they were declared surplus?

    • User

      100% Correct. And you would also need to reconfiqure them, diffrent gasport position, diffrent barrel, diffrent stock, etc.

  • glenn cheney

    Germans seem to have found some urgency for helmets and new platforms and they are domestic not gearing up for NATO.
    Why? Certainly all is love and flowers in Europe, why the sudden rush?
    The Russians aren’t coming, nothing they need or want in germany, esp. Herr Merkel.

    • User

      Now tell me what police equipment has to do with large scale war….. Nothing. Your totally out of context

      • glenn cheney

        Duhhh….It was a rhetorical comment/question.
        Your lack of understanding bemueses.
        You made my point. So, lol, why the need for the popo?

  • FarmerB

    And the powder is much faster in pistol ammo, so it burns more completely before running out of barrel – especially in a sub-gun. Had anybody marketed SBR 5.56 ammo yet? It might guarantee a more complete burn in a 9″ barrel (you’re right, currently most of it goes up in flash and noise or burning the crap out of the suppressor).

    • Mazryonh

      I believe the .300 Blackout was made to address the “wasted powder” problem in SBRs while allowing for good suppressor performance when used in supersonic and subsonic loadings.

      It should still be possible to make a slower-burning powder that pistol calibers can take advantage of in longer barrels. Then again, magnum calibers like .357 Magnum and 10mm Auto already gain substantial velocity out of longer barrels. SMGs chambered in those or similar pistol calibers should wear out their parts and suppressors more slowly than most SBRs would.

      • FarmerB

        Agree completely – I’m a fan of pistol caliber sub-guns. Although the MPX in 357 SIG is a possibility, having one in 10mm would be fantastic (no, not .45). In fact, when all the operators have gone deaf, burnt out their suppressors and scorched their beards with SBR 5.56’s, there might be a market for a sub-gun in a smaller caliber (no, not the 5.7 and stuff). Take a case as long as a 10mm, have it in about 8mm (fit more in a mag) and launch a 110-120 gn projectile at 1500-1600 fps or more (and a subsonic 170-200 gns) – tuned to an 8″ barrel or so. Yeah, no, I’m dreaming.

  • Mirkwood Mage

    The G-3 is as obsolete as a DI AR-15.