TFBTV: The Top 5 Calibers

I this episode of TFBTV, James tries to tackle a very big and surely disputable issue, ranking the Top 5 gun calibers.  In this list, we have (5) a childhood favorite of all shooters (4) a controversial new tactical caliber that is making waves (3) a caliber that was invented for use in one particular platform, which platform has since ballooned in popularity (2) a caliber invented over a century ago that still continues to technologically advance and spread its influence, and; (1) a traditional, 150-year-old American standard used by sportsmen, hunters, and for home defense. Can you guess which calibers made the Top 5?

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Transcript ….

[coming soon]



James Reeves

• NRA-licensed concealed weapons instructor, 2012-present
Maxim Magazine’s MAXIMum Warrior, 2011
• “Co-Director” [air quotes] of TFBTV
• Former Regional Sales Rep, Interstate Arms Corp., MA
• Champion, Key West Cinco De Mayo Taco Eating Competition
• GLOCK® Certified Pistol Operator, 2017-2022
• Lawyer
► Instagram: jjreevesii
► Twitter: @jjreeves
► Vimeo: JJReeves
► 500px: JJReeves
► YouTube.com/c/JamesReeves


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  • Rick O’Shay

    TL;DW: .22LR, 300BLK, .223/5.56, 9mm, 12ga.

    Let the fighting commence.

    • ARCNA442

      Thanks, I didn’t want to watch the video.

      Next, why would anyone put .300BLK as a top 5 caliber? And then not have a single full-power rifle cartridge on the list?

      • James Reeves

        Lol. “I don’t want to watch the video, but I have several questions about it that I would like you to address.”

      • Doctor Jelly

        His reasoning is versatility (in both the firearm and cartridge).
        Otherwise it’s really just a list of his most preferred ubiquitous cartridges in the US, not necessarily the “best”…

        • James Reeves

          As with all things, those that are ubiquitous tend to be that way for a reason.

          • Doctor Jelly

            Absolutely, but oft times that reason is because of value and not premium features commonly attributed to “best” or “top” lists. Replace 300 with 308 and that makes for the only calibers I have and use (though I do pine for some of the higher performing or exotic designs, I can’t justify the investment for my uses). I use those 5 ubiquitous calibers because they are proven, work well, are well rounded, have many different configurations, and most of all, are inexpensive and readily available. That’s all in lieu of being the top cartridges in their class. I’m just saying that this is a list of your top 5 favorite calibers (most of which I agree with as evidenced by my own stock), not the top 5 calibers.

  • Dougscamo

    You are one BRAVE individual, James R….”We who are about to die salute you”….let the the carnage….begin…..

    • Tassiebush

      And the hearts be broken apparently!

  • Gary Kirk

    First long gun vs pistol, now top 5 calibers.. Y’all in a starting $#!+ kinda mood today ain’t ya

  • Scott Tuttle

    I’m a 40 fan myself but I can go along with most of these but seeing 300blk on there really surprised me. I’m not against it but its so… new?

    • Bucho4Prez

      Don’t go gentle into that 9mm good night my friend!

      • Scott Tuttle

        I dont plan on it. 2 reasons, if new bullet tech in 9mm make it better they’ll make 40 even better also. if you cant get ahold of the fancy bullets for some reason you still have a decent bullet to work with.

  • Edeco

    5.56/223, 9×23 Win, 455 Webley Mk II, 7mm Rem Mag and 7.65×20 Lounge Pistole.

    This is in terms of absolute performance in important classes of firearm. Some of these didn’t take off, history had other ideas. The 9mm market was so covered by the time 9×23 Win happened, for instance.

    • I’m totally with you on 9×23, that’s one caliber that really should have made it, but was a total failure.

      I’m intrigued by the 7.62×20, although hard to find the specs for it. If it could push a 85gr .32 @1200fps it would be far better than a .380, as you’d get better SD then the 90gr .380.

      However shocked that you’d throw .455 Webley into the mix. Is there a pressing need 265gr .45 at 700 ft/s from a massive revolver? .45 LC is much hotter, and +P loads for modern revolvers drive a 250gr @ 1400ft/s.

      • Edeco

        Glad you noticed that 🙂 I think the 455 is optimal (or as close as ever mass produced) because I think revolver cartridges should be relatively stubby, for instance for easy loading and extraction. History went mostly the other way of course, making autoloading pistol ammo stubby, revolver ammo long. Oh well. The mild performace of 455, to me is neither a major plus or minus, just a number in the practical range. Given carte blanch, I’d like it warmed up, but even as-is I think it’s the ultimate. The cartridge shape (external at least) is why I think it’s important.

        • iksnilol

          But a long revolver cartridge takes advantage of the fact that revolvers don’t keep their ammo in the grip. And a slightly long cartridge is easier to load by hand.

          • Edeco

            Interesting points. We can fit long cartridges in revolvers but why would we want to? I admit the magna we have, like with 33mm+ cases are fun, a couple of them are practical for martial use and they’re usable for hunting, but to me that’s just the upside of a horrible mistake that got frozen in place. Generally we don’t need that length just to make practical, duty-gun range muzzle energy. Except maybe if you get down to like 32 caliber and want to get 500 ft lbs out of that, like bore on the small end, ME on the high end.

            Easy to reload… OK, I guess but not my department. Fundamentally I think of ammo as consumable. As a chaotically-aligned person I’m comfortable with consuming things, if we can make the gun better but the ammo less recyclable, I’m all for it. The environment needs to be taught a lesson anyway!

          • iksnilol

            No, I meant, alonger cartridge is easier to grab and put into the cylinder

          • Edeco

            Ah, oops. Hmmm, I guess.

  • iksnilol

    Comrade Reeves, I never thought I’d say this, but you’re a poopyhead.

    I mean 300 BLK but not 6.5×55? *smh

    • James Reeves

      Don’t fret. When I run out of video ideas in about 6 weeks, it’ll get top billing in “Top 5 Moose Hunting Calibers”.

      • iksnilol

        But you can use it for other things as well… including but not limited to: Grouse, beaver, fox (little meat damage if done correctly), people or long range comps.

        Like, .300 BLK, you can only use that to imitate AK ballistics. That’s just crap in comparison.

        • Dougscamo

          I use something different for beaver….and you won’t hear me grousing about that little fox either…..just sayin’….

        • Wolfgar

          I have to agree with iksnilol. The hunting world was kind of left out in the cold. These should have been the best military, self defense”,against people” calibers but if hunting was included you missed the mark. In your world the 300 Black out might work but I live near some big critters with attitudes and the 300 BO would not be my first choice or recommended.

          • iksnilol

            I reckon I could shoot a grouse with .300 BLK. Or a beaver/rabbit. All other critters might be a smidge large to legaøly take with it.

          • Wolfgar

            I was thinking more of the Grizzly bears that pass buy my house every once in a while. 300 BO is not the preferable caliber for self defense against these guys nor when hunting black bear, elk or yes even moose.

        • MeaCulpa

          Well you can only use a 6.5×55 to imitate the ballistics of a laser beam through vacuum, so obviously it suc…. wait…. let me calculate…. oh it DOESN’T suck!

        • Tassiebush

          Do people use full metal jacket round’s on those smaller animals to reduce meat damage?

          • Nicks87

            No, he probably just means head shots. Like Turkey hunting.

          • iksnilol

            I mean, firing of a full blood 6.5 or 30-06 at a grouse wouldn’t leave much meat if you didn’t go for the head.

          • iksnilol

            In conjunction with headshots it works well from what I’ve seen.

      • Dougscamo

        American moose or European Elk?…..

        • iksnilol

          The big horse like deer woth big horns. We do call them Elg in Norwegian.
          I don’t know whay American Moose are like.

          • FulMetlJakit

            Antlers, horns are not shed.
            If the antlers are broad, predominately horizontal and not “pointy” and the face is… “droopy” that’s a moose.
            Elk, or wapati, are basically deer or stag on steroids. What I gather would be “hjort” for you.

          • iksnilol

            So you call deer for elk and elk for moose? English is weird.

          • Devil_Doc

            Deer, elk and moose are all related (cervidae). Deer are the smallest, ranging from tiny Coues deer, smaller blacktail, all the way up to big mule deer that can weigh in excess of 200lbs. Elk are much larger, with big males weighing over 700lbs. Moose are massive, with males exceeding 1500lbs. The names are not interchangeable…

          • iksnilol

            I know, its just that in Norwegian the word for Moose is Elg, which sounds similar to Elk.

            So I just poke fun at the confusion stemming from the similarity in words.

          • Devil_Doc

            How do you say elk and deer?

          • iksnilol

            Elk are hjort, and deer are rådyr.

          • Paul White

            Are we allowed to link in comments? If so I can link pictures of what we mean. But here’s common/scientific names and (very rough) sizes in lbs.

            White tail deer: Odocoileus virginianus, most between 100 and 150 lbs (outliers do occur and some populations tend larger or smaller.

            Mule Deer: Odocoileus hemionus, most between maybe 130 and 200ish?

            Elk: Cervus canadensis, figure 600-700 lbs

            Moose: Alces alces, figure like maybe 800-1100 lbs.

          • Wolfgar

            Except for the American prong horn which does shed its horns.

      • Paul White

        Do they make moose smaller there? I love my 6.5×55 but for a damn moose…

        • Dougscamo

          Hey…..300,000 Swedes can’t be wrong….. 🙂

        • Marc

          6.5×55 has no problem with moose given the proper bullet.

        • iksnilol

          Why not, I’d feel safer with it against a Möøse than with a .308. Sectional density, bruh.

      • George

        Läeve my Mööse Ålöne!

        • Kent

          “A moose once bit my sister…”

    • gusto

      hells yes

      it is just the best

      so looking forward to my new (used) combination rifle in 12/6,5×55 it will be sweet

    • Dougscamo

      GASP…..OOOOOO…..I’M NOT BELIEVING THIS….YOU OF ALL PEOPLE…..snicker……HERESY!

      • iksnilol

        The 6.5×55 doth giveth, so doth it taketh away.

        • Dougscamo

          Looks like James tooketh it away….

          • iksnilol

            Becauseth, as it hath been confirmedeth, he be a poop.

          • Dougscamo

            Verily, verily…..but not you!….I have lost my faith in mankind when YOU say something bad about your hero!….I guess you’re mad because he wasn’t wearing shorts?….

          • iksnilol

            No amount of shorts could’a done prevented this.

            It’s a part of growing up, I guess, seeing your heroes for what they really are.

    • The_Champ

      6.5 x 55 tis a thing of beauty.

    • mazkact

      Seems the rest of the world is just now “discovering” 6.5. We 6.5 Swede fans have known it all along. 6.5 Creedmoor………, 6.5 humperdinkerwhatchimacallit ? MEH The Ole Swede gets it done.

      • iksnilol

        Something like that, though I’ll never call it Swede. IT WAS A JOINT COMMISION Y’ALL!

        • MeaCulpa

          Yes, technically, but you know the union wasn’t exactly a marriage of “equals” so you’ll have to stomach the insult, and, you also have the pleasure of payback by finding ever worse recipients for the Noble peace price.

  • Heartbreaker

    .22lr, 9mm, .223/5.56, .308/7.62, 12 gauge. Covers just about anything most people need and all are very common.

    • gusto

      shot placement is everything yadda yadda

      but hunting bigger stuff than bear I feel a little bit undergunned with 308 as my biggest calibre

      most people can handle 9,3×62 just fine, it is not very snappy but it really packs a punch

      • The_Champ

        For the last two years I have faced great internal conflict about the 9.3 x 62. Half of me wants dearly to own one in a nice wood furniture bolt gun, and the other half knows that’s a waste of money because I already own sufficient hunting rifles.

        So far I’ve resisted the urge, but maybe someday one will grace my safe.

      • Paul White

        Bigger than bear?! What, pachyderms?

        • Gusto

          *deer
          But some even prefer it for african game like buffalo

    • DrewN

      This is the correct answer in the US all day every day.

  • John Yossarian

    300 BLK was the mistake – Should have been 7.62 NATO. Otherwise, you’ve got two intermediate rifle cartridges and nothing longer.

  • clampdown

    .22LR, 12 ga, 9mm, 7.62×39, .308. Each represents the most popular rimfire, shotgun, pistol, intermediate-rifle, and full-sized rifle rounds in the world. Nothing that those five can’t get done.

    • Audie Bakerson

      Kill a man at 1000 yards.

      • Emfourty Gasmask

        That’s a class 1 felony in most countries.

        • Audie Bakerson

          Owning a single cartridge of those 5 is too, so…

        • iksnilol

          What if you shoot across state lines?

          • Edeco

            Legal grey area, may do to avoid US Marshals for a while afterward.*

            * kidding

          • iksnilol

            I’ll just wait for a rural, cocky marshall to use too much force on me so I can sue him.

      • Bucho4Prez

        That opportunity present itself often?

    • Joseph Goins

      .308 isn’t full sized.

      • clampdown

        Full power, then. Not an intermediate round.

        • Joseph Goins

          It isn’t full power. .30-06 is full powered.

          • Kivaari

            Seriously the performance is so close that in the real world you’d never know the difference. It was designed as a direct replacement for the ’06. Even the 300 Savage was originally loaded to equal the ’06. Those early loads were hard on the Savage M99 so they backed them down a little like the 7.62. When we are talking about less than 100 fps for 147 gr bullets that’s like shooting one on a hot day and another on a cold day.

    • DrewN

      To be fair, .223 just fills out that line up better than x39, especially from a bolt gun.

      • clampdown

        Fair enough. I want to get the little CZ carbine and do some handloading in the Soviet round.

  • VF 1777

    Haha, great video James. Good choices, and delivered in typical James style. Good stuff bro

    • James Reeves

      Thanks man-

  • The_Champ

    Good list James, all solid choices.

    But I was so hoping for something interesting like .300 Win Mag, which is my books is the ultimate North American hunting round.

    There is so much discussion about the common modern military/self defense rounds. I can’t help but notice that around here there is so little love for all the wild and wonderful hunting and out of use classic military rounds.

    • James Reeves

      Sorry Champ. This is embarrassing to admit, but I live in the city, so the only thing I ever hunt for is a decent parking spot. I will never speak about something that I don’t feel like I have an adequate knowledge base to draw upon, and I know almost nothing about hunting rifles. Truly sorry guys, I hope you can appreciate my content anyways.

      • The_Champ

        No apology needed, was just my two cents. Keep doing what you do, your videos are definitely entertaining.

      • Dougscamo

        OH, MAN….now I am really crushed….

      • iksnilol

        So… you can’t wear flannel or put up a fence with your bare hands?

        *sigh*

    • DrewN

      .300 is just too much cartridge. Now on the other hand .264 is the bee’s knees.

      • The_Champ

        Too much cartridge for what? Grizzly bear, moose, and elk? Reaching out further and still maintaining humane lethality on critters?

        All depends what your looking for, and for me .300 Win Mag is the perfect do it all round for North American hunting.

  • No 50 BMG? You can’t prove your manhood without it.

    • Nashvone

      Sneak a turkey magnum in the tube of a 12 gauge if someone feels the need to prove their manhood.

  • ExMachina1

    I would swap out the 5.56 for a long range rifle cartridge. Doesn’t have to a one-mile cartridge but it’s gotta be effective out to 1000 yards. Probably have to go with .308

    • No one

      5.56x45mm has proven to be one of the most versatile cartridges ever designed and the fact it’s had room to be greatly enhanced to this day shows it more then deserves it spot.

      .300 Blackout needs to be kicked off this list if anything.

      • ExMachina1

        Balderdash! 5.56 is great but there’s a reason the 5.56 is not preferred by snipers–.308 FTW! And for medium-range use, the 300BLK is just as good as the 5.56, with the added benefit of being superior when suppressed in CQB situations.

        • iksnilol

          .308 is a crappy sniper cartridge and is only used because the US forced it on NATO 50-60 years ago and now inertia has kept it in supply chains (sadly).

    • iksnilol

      “effective out to 1000 yards… 308”

      Man, you’re a better joker than me.

  • Duray

    300 Blackout is NOT “the same case as 223, necked up to 30 caliber.” To get from a 223 case to 300 Blackout, you remove the entire neck and shoulder of the 223, then neck the remaining case body down to 30 caliber. Nothing gets “necked up.”

    • James Reeves

      I should have explained that in great detail, YouTube would have been enthralled.

      • Duray

        Being correct would’ve taken about as many words. I guess simple is better than accurate.

  • Emfourty Gasmask

    300 BLK will forever be a meme cartridge that is good at separating a fool from his money.

    • James Reeves

      Welp that settles it, everyone can go home now

  • YZAS

    Damn if I don’t think you’re starting to grow on me a little, James. Another entertaining video. You dont take yourself seriously enough to really piss anybody off (or induce any cringes) and you’re not afraid to just be yourself and just state things the way you see them. I like the cut of your jib sir, keep up the good work. You always manage to get me to chuckle after a long day in the salt mines, and that aint so damn easy sometimes haha. Peace

    • James Reeves

      I appreciate this.

      • .45

        I’d like to add that I like that you comment quite a bit too. That’s always nice, to be able to discuss things.

        • James Reeves

          I can’t get to all of them but I try to hit the good ones. The blog is typically better; for every reasonable comment on the blog, there are at least 25 YouTube comments that are pure gibberish.

          • Dougscamo

            Roger that James….for all the foolishness here (in fun) the YouTube commenters are bizarre and I refuse to post a YouTube remark. At least here there is a group that knows firearms…..

          • iksnilol

            I remember done reading a study that claimed that reading Youtube comments would literally make you dumber.

            Like, everytime you want to read YT comments, down a couple of shots of whiskey or something. It’ll be better for your mental health in the long run.

  • Jafo

    Speaking of the whole .22/prepper/shtf thing, i read a good PAW fiction story (think it was a Jerry D Young one) where the bad guy/MZB’s had one dude on their team using .22 as essentially poor man’s supressing fire, because even though it’s just 22, he could pour tons of rounds in (and carry a ton of rounds on him) and it would keep their heads down and affix them in their position, while the others on the team would flank in and take the position. Thought it was a creative (albeit devious) use for 22 in a shtf scenario. I’m personally not a prepper per say, but i do enjoy the fiction.

    • ARCNA442

      I wonder if this would work? I’ve heard that suppressing fire gets a lot of its effectiveness from the supersonic crack – which would probably be missing from a .22LR.

      • iksnilol

        plenty of supersonic .22 LR, too bad its accuracy goes to crap past 60-70 meters.

        • Jafo

          …in the story, it was actually CQB engagements where they used this tactic. I don’t think they even cared about accuracy either really. It was enough to affix the opposition long enough to allow for a quick ‘pincer’.

        • ARCNA442

          Which is around where it goes subsonic. Suppressing fire that only works within 50 meters doesn’t sound that useful.

          • iksnilol

            Well, still makes noise as it goes transsonic. And the sound will travel further forward.

  • Paul White

    I’ve seen people argue both ways on 12 gauge vs 556 for over penetration and have no clue anymore what to believe.

    • James Reeves

      Paul, that’s because there’s a lot of overlap, i.e., some buckshot will push further than .223 *(lighter .223 seems to frag pretty well, actually), but some .223 will penetrate more than buck. Either way, non-slug 12GA is pretty good for avoiding overpenetration, just think about what you are cramming in your tube first.

    • iksnilol

      Just go for a solid copper hollow point slug. Sure, it’ll be expensive but it’ll get the job done… through and across the neighbourhood.

  • BrandonAKsALot

    Now, I love me some .223/5.56, but I would argue that 5.45×39 is a superior cartridge in most respects. It’s not widely available and doens’t have support/loadings the way 5.56 does, but ballistically and fucntionally, it is top notch in it’s category.

    • Certainly up until the recent era of next gen 5.56 ammo, 7n6 was superior to both M193 and M855.

      However now with M855A1, MK262, Lehigh Controlled Chaos, 62gr bonded soft points, etc…

      • No one

        Aside from the part where M855 can generate significantly worse injuries and has better ballistics at longer range, how is 7n6 flat out superior?

        It has slightly less recoil and weight then 5.56mm, but 5.56mm already has the recoil of a feather.

        • Tests of M855 have shown it be very vulnerable to the fleet yaw effect, so it’s performance is very erratic depending on what impact angle it it hits after. I refer to the DTIC report on this.

          It also only fragments at around 2,600 ft/s and above.

          The 7N6 has superior rapid tumbling characteristics at a wider velocity range (it performs very well for example at 2,300ft/s out of the Krinkov) and also has superior barrier penetration due to a larger steel core than the little steel nose cone found in the M855.

          The new M855A1 has solved these issues and is far superior to 7N6.

  • Don Ward

    Has anyone posted yet saying that 12 gauge is technically not a caliber?

    *scans comments thread feverishly*

    • Nicks87

      True, but we know what he means. Cartridge might have been a better choice of words, maybe?

      • Don Ward

        Round. Ammunition.

        • Kivaari

          shell.

          • Edeco

            assault-bullet

        • iksnilol

          Technically, the G11 assault rifle didn’t use rounds… it used squares!

  • MadDog

    ballistic coefficientcy?

  • Big Daddy

    Going by what I see people buying I’d say 22, 9mm, 223/5.56 and 7.62×39. But overall it’s different and depends for what use. Hunting it’s different, self-defense it’s different, long range shooting, competition and so on.

  • NukeItFromOrbit

    If I wanted 7.62x39mm grade ballistics or slightly better I’d go with 7.62x39mm or 6.8x43mm.

    • USMC03Vet

      It’s so AR15 fans can finally shoot big boy calibers while using the same mags.

      • Paul White

        *If* the HPA passes and SBS get regulated I want a 10″ barrel suppressed AR in 300 blackout. Otherwise, eh

    • Tassiebush

      It’s all about offering a good subsonic suppressed platform that can also perform normally.

    • James Reeves

      I said it in the video, but condensed:
      1) Slightly superior to 7.62×39 ballistics
      2) Permits use of standard AR equipment and can be used in a lighter platform
      3) Much, much more versatile in terms of ammunition selection
      4) No-compromise subsonic performance.

      I can see where the guys that say I should have put .308 as number 4 instead are coming from, and I can even get the guys that say “hey, 7.62×39 is the most popular intermediate battle cartridge in the world”, but the “it’s the same as 7.62×39” argument is 100% factual nonsense.

      • iksnilol

        But it is basically the same as 7.62×39. Sure, some better ballistics past 300 meters but I ain’t using either past that distance.

        And they both have “no compromise” subsonic performance. It’s just that more folks build suppressed ARs already so it is easier to get them to run well.

        • James Reeves

          This is not true. While subsonic 7.62 by 39 exists, it is a boutique cartridge for a reason. it is difficult to make a reliable, stable 762 x 39 loading that doesn’t compromise somewhere. There’s a reason why EBR is the only manufacturer turning out subsonic 762 x 39.

          • iksnilol

            Gaze upon thy beautiful hands… those are the ones that make the best cartridges.

            Buying subsonic rifle ammo, pffft. Madness, I tell ya.

          • James Reeves

            I also checked out ebr’s subsonic 762 x 39 just now since I brought it up. You should read the description for it, even it is full of caveats.

      • James Young

        5) costs twice as much as 7.62×39

        Kidding, the benefits of .300 Blk are great, hoepfully it drives the cost down in the future

      • Jason Donovan

        The one aspect though is the 7.62×39 is FAR cheaper than the .300. That also plays an important role in at least my decisions because frankly, if cost makes no difference…I’d add a .338 in there any day as it is just a nice round in general. However, since I’m not rich yet…key word being yet (still have aspirations of winning the lotto), I tend to make my own top 5 based around budget. So for me who is budget conscious, it’d be .22, 9mm, 12g, .223, 7.62×39. I admit, there are a lot of better rounds out there ballistically speaking, but those are the ones I can shoot a lot of for little money.

  • USMC03Vet

    You titlted this video incorrectly. It should read “The Top 5 Overrated Calibers”.

  • Uniform223

    another great video!

  • James Wilson

    The correct answers were-
    6.5 Creedmoor
    5.56/223
    10mm
    30-06
    and 12 Gauge.

  • Chris Cosby

    Like many others I don’t really agree with the 300 blackout but the others are solid choices. I just know of too many people who hog hunt that are unimpressed with the 300 blackout guns.

    Also come on now no love for 10mm? Really though I think if you subbed 300 blackout for 308 or 7.62×39 it would have been better.

    • iksnilol

      If you use subsonic 300 BLK against hogs you’re gonna have a bad time.

  • Tassiebush

    I am hoping more mild load options keep coming out for the. 22mag because there really is no reason it shouldn’t be able to do everything a. 22lr does and more with virtually no disadvantages. A brick of it is only a tiny bit more heavy and bulky but it offers much more useful power plus with subsonic ammo (at least here in Australia) it duplicates most of the quiet use functions too. If the loads become more diverse and the versatility is embraced by more users then the economy of scale should make it cheaper and close the price gap with. 22lr which is really it’s only remaining advantage.

    • Dougscamo

      Doubt that the ammo companies will ever even attempt to do so….costs a lot of money to expand a rimfire line of ammo unlike a centerfire…
      The trend here is faster for the .22 magnum….and as far as the cost, I can load 3-.223 cartridges for the price of 1-.22 magnum….or at least I could when the ammo was at its peak in demand….saw it coming and stocked up with these and .22 LR….

      • Tassiebush

        I don’t think it would be that implausible. The Winchester made subsonic ammo is currently just available in the Australian and New Zealand market as far as I am aware (probably some other little neighbours too). We’re really not a big firearm market but it seems to be doing okay. I find it costs about 3x a .22lr here per round for the cheaper stuff which includes this.
        https://goo.gl/images/JUxPrN

        • Dougscamo

          Implausible, no….but you guys are the only ones with subsonic .22 mag ammo….not available here. That may change if Congress passes the HPA to make suppressors less restricted….I’m not holding my breath….
          Just checked my ammo engine and right now .22 LR is less than 1/4 the price of less than premium .22 Mag….however, the price on .22 Mag has really dropped since November…less hoarding I would suppose….
          Talked to a factory rep during the great .22 LR drought about them bringing more ammo manufacturing online….apparently, they weren’t interested….

          • Tassiebush

            The ammo drought was bad. We’re an afterthought and even some European stuff comes via American companies so we found some things that came from overseas were basically impossible to get for a time. But luckily we have a few of our own ammo manufacturers. It took a while but .22mag and .22lr are fine as long as you like Winchester. I think we had some ammo company growth here. We have a new major brand OSA that grew into the vacuum and it is too good and too affordable to go anywhere.
            But back onto .22mag if you can buy .22lr equivalent mag loads it makes you think twice about whether 22lr is worth it at least for hunters. I find the quiet of the subsonic load well worth it even without the option of a silencer.

          • Dougscamo

            For a long time if you wanted .22 Mag ammo here, you had to buy Winchester as it was a proprietary round….but no more….Hornady makes a 30 gr V-Max load for it that is considered a premium round and still relatively scarce….at a reasonable price….that is 6X times more expensive than a .22 LR….bummer.
            That being said, I have a Remington Model 5….made in Croatia….that will plunk them inside 1″ at 100 yards…primarily used here for varmints…
            Do you have .22 shorts there? They are a subsonic load….which I use when I don’t want the neighbors looking too hard….not that it matters in my state but I still like to be discreet…. 🙂

          • Tassiebush

            Yes we certainly do although I find the z long and cci quiet .22lr pretty good for the same thing. Dad has an old Winchester pump carbine in .22short actually. They were pretty viable back when there were more rabbits before myxomatosis and calicivirus were released. Definitely loads you can touch off the odd shot without causing a fuss.

    • iksnilol

      But subsonic .22 mag is basically .22 LR. I find that a bit pointless.

      • Tassiebush

        Well it’s hollow point actually…
        But in all seriousness it’s no more pointless than .22lr subsonic. The great thing about .22mag is it’s got more power in it’s standard loads but if you add some light quieter loads to it then it also does everything a .22lr can do. So you have one rifle that covers everything across .22mag and .22lr which can’t be a bad thing. I got my .22mag last year and had intended to replace my .22lr but after I got the subsonic ammo for mag I have little motivation to upgrade the .22lr.
        In my local context the vast majority of game and vermin is legal with .22mag. Deer are the only ones you need a larger 6mm .243 for but for most of the year and within one hours drive of my local area .22mag does all the wallabies and smaller stuff.

        • iksnilol

          Makes sense for your AO then.

          In Norway .22 mag costs a good bit more than .22 LR. And ballistically/acoustically speaking, a standard velocity 40 grain .22 is reeeeally similar (ballistically) to a 45 grain .22 mag that’s subsonic. So for me it is pointless, since I like being quiet.

          For the price of .22 mag I might as well get .223 here.

          • Tassiebush

            Oh yes they are very similar ballistically in that load type and totally agree the price is a plus for .22lr so if you just want subsonic go for. 22lr. My thoughts just are that there is so much potential if load variety increased and market share grew cost should come down and then 22mag would hold all the advantages of .22lr plus more. I can’t help but think of how economy of scale makes plenty of often larger rounds cheaper despite materials. So if there was just more backing for 22mag we’d all be better off.

  • Kevin Harron

    .300 blackout. LOL.

  • Tim

    In no particular order…
    .22LR (No debate)
    .223Rem (though I prefer 7.62x39MM)
    .308Win (No debate)
    9MM (though I prefer .45ACP and .357Magnum)
    12 Gauge (No debate)

  • Pedenzo

    I think you need to ask for a raise James….obviously TFBTV isn’t paying you enough. That is the only reason I can come up with as to why you are wearing t-shirts you bought when you were a skinny 14 year old…..

    Just yanking your chain man….I very much enjoy your videos….

  • Whether .300 Blackout outperforms the 7.62×39 or not depends on the bullet selection for both. There are a lot of inexpensive flat-based bullets in the 7.62×39 that have poor ballistic coefficients, but there are also lower-drag bullets in that caliber. Likewise, bullets with both decent and poor ballistic coefficients exist for the 300 Blackout.

    Another note is that I don’t trust Nosler’s BC data. Basically their entire long range projectile line appears to have heavily massaged numbers – we’re seeing them claim things like 0.84 i7 Form Factors for bullets that do not even approach the shape of actual projectiles with FFs that low. (Remember, lower FF is better.)

    Maybe their approx 0.183 G7 BC/1.02 i7 FF for the 125gr .308 bullet is accurate… And maybe it ain’t.

    Having said all that, .300 Blackout has a substantially broader and better bullet selection vs. 7.62×39. The Sierra 125s (tipped and not) are both good bullets, and so is the Barnes 110gr. With 125s, the .300 Blackout has an energy retention curve extremely similar to boattailed 123gr 7.62×39 loads, which is quite good for such a small caliber. With something like the Sierra 135gr BTHP, energy retention is considerably better, although the BTHP is probably not as effective a bullet as it could be with something that’s only going to produce muzzle velocities in the 2,150 ft/s range.

  • Kent

    5. .22RF ?
    4. .300BLK ?

    3. 5.56NATO/.223 Remington ?
    2. 9mmP/9mm Luger/9X19mm ?
    1. .30-30 Win ?

  • Marcus D.

    According to Wikipedia (and a video I saw of the shootout), there were three 9mm handgun in use.. Four other officers had .357s, but for some reason, they’d all loaded up with .38 Special +P, or shotguns:

    Agents
    Richard Manauzzi: lost control of weapon in the initial vehicle collision, no shots fired. Minor wounds from shotgun pellets.[8]
    Gordon McNeill: Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck.
    Edmundo Mireles: Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun, five rounds 00 buckshot fired, .357 Magnum revolver, Smith & Wesson Model 686 (Not FBI issue, but personally owned .357’s and .38’s could be approved for carry by supervisors, same applies with McNeil’s Model 19), six rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm.
    Gilbert Orrantia: S&W (model unknown, likely a Model 13,
    as it was an issued weapon at the time) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds
    .38 Special +P fired. Wounded by shrapnel and debris produced by a .223
    bullet near miss.
    John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. Seriously wounded by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin.
    Benjamin Grogan: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, nine rounds fired. Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest.
    Jerry Dove: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 20+ rounds fired. Killed by two .223 gunshot wounds to the head.
    Ronald Risner: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 14 rounds
    fired, S&W Model 60 .38 Special revolver, one round .38 Special +P
    fired. Not wounded.

  • Old Vet

    The M-16 was not a .223. It is a 5.56 cartridge. The 5.56 case length is .013 in. longer. If you shoot 5.56 in .223 chambers be aware of pressure spikes from the longer lead of that case. It puts the case mouth into the rifling on some guns. This will not allow the case to release the bullet as easily and can cause the chamber pressure to increase dramatically. This is why some people opt for the .223 Wylde chambers. They allow 5.56 rounds to be run without the pressure problems and the .223 rounds to be more accurate. Shooting .223 rounds in a 5.56 chamber makes the bullet jump to the rifling in a more uncontrolled release, hence accuracy can diminish. To many people fail to distinguish the difference in the two calibers, and they are different!!!

  • gentilekevin

    He only had 3 calibers 22 and 5.56/223 are both .223 , he calls 300 blackout a caliber , it is not . It is .30 caliber . 9mm is actually .357 caliber, and 12 gauge is 12 gauge and can run anywhere between .69 and 729 caliber .
    This guy is a pompous ass and we are all dumber for having watched him , and with that I am hereby sending TFB to the spam department where i will never be tempted into wasting another 14 minutes of my life again .