Oh He Went There… TYM On Why .45 ACP “Sucks” for Self Defense

One typically likes The Yankee Marshall for the same reasons they like (or don’t like) Donald Trump. He’s brash, opinionated, outspoken, and occasionally has truly resonating moments with one personally. Metaphor aside, Mr. Yankee stands up for a belief that he is passionate about, that the .45 ACP, while a great cartridge, “sucks” for self-defenseย (relatively speaking).

Before I started watching the video my gut reaction was “Yankee’s gone off his meds again, but this will be entertaining.” Entertaining it was, but whatever Yankee was taking he should stay off of it, as I agree with him, the .45 ACP is not an ideal self-defense cartridge.

Now, before one gets all riled up, I do fully and knowing cede that the .45 ACP has taken a few bad guys from the face of the planet. Further, it’s served well as a US Military cartridge across pretty much every continent. Fat and slow does get-r-done.

That said, technology has come a long way in the century-plus since the .45 was invented. Simply put, modern designs, metallurgy, hollow-points, and practicality have pushed other calibers to the fore as the “best” in a respective category. In any category I can think of, the .45 is not typically near the top and on the whole, the fat part really works against it. Reduced capacity and higher recoil make the cartridge an uneasy choice for those who are working with compact handguns for concealed carry.

What say you? Are Yankee and yours truly off their rockers or is this something that, while not openly said (for fear of 1911 guy’s wrath) has a strong leg to stand on?

Phil Note: Blasphemy:-)



Nathan S.

One of TFB’s resident Jarheads, Nathan now works within the firearms industry. A consecutive Marine rifle and pistol expert, he enjoys local 3-gun, NFA, gunsmithing, MSR’s, & high-speed gear. Nathan has traveled to over 30 countries working with US DoD & foreign MoDs.

Nathan can be reached at Nathan.S@TheFirearmBlog.com

The above post is my opinion and does not reflect the views of any company or organization.


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  • gunsandrockets

    nothing wrong with the .45 that a thicker case and more powder can’t fix!

    https://www.460rowland.com/product-category/conversions/

    • ProLiberty82

      It’s even more powerful than full power 10mm loads, and if your going with a bullet over 180gr I’d recommend going with a .460/.45 Super/etc over the 10mm.

      • Nice avatar picture.
        My favourite game. ๐Ÿ™‚

      • Jason Lewis

        Not even close. 10mm muzzle energy beats .45 no matter how many +p’s you put on it.

        • The 45 super is equivalent

          • Jason Lewis

            Just looking at Underwood Ammos numbers (they max out their loads) you can get over 750 lbs of muzzle energy out of 10mm. 45 Super isn’t close.

          • gunsandrockets

            Supposedly .460 Rowland does 1000 fpe.

    • ??
    • John Yossarian

      45 ACP is already capable of some rather gnarly performance. I’ve heard of people loading it to 45 Super velocities without signs of over-pressure.

      45 ACP is a great cartridge, no doubt, but like 10mm is it too much gun for the self-defense application. Quick hits to the vital zone with 9mm are the way to go.

      • You need to make some changes for the Super. Sometimes a barrel, definitely a recoil spring. The 460 Rowland requires a lot more, it’s a lot more money and it kick a lot more too. I would think the 45 Super would be the right balance.

        • Bad Penguin

          Jim, check this out.
          Underwood ammo 45-super-120-grain-xtreme-defender/

          • I don’t subscribe to the high velocity club. I’d rather use a heavier bullet at lower velocity to an extent. To me, the perfect round is the 4LC with a 255g lead hollow point at about 950-1000fps. Soft lead bullet with a gascheck just to make sure there’s no leading. I think Buffalo Bore or some other manufacturers makes it. Iraqveteran8888 tested it I think in multiple guns, from short barrel to rifle.

          • Bad Penguin

            Jim,
            I believe that whatever weapon and caliber you feel comfortable with and can hit well with it is what you should stay with. Check out the underwood rounds. And those huge slow rounds fired by rifles in the civil war did a lot of damage when they hit there target.

      • gunsandrockets

        Is an 18 shot 9mm better than a 5 shot .44 magnum for self-defense? Could be. But I think it is debatable.

        • I would think something like a 44 mag Buffalo Bore Deer Grenade to COM would trump the other calibers mentioned.

        • Bad Penguin

          Question is just how many rounds do you really need in a self defense situation? by no means advocating mag limits but just saying unless you are planning on a zombie apocalypse do you really need 16+ rounds?

          • gunsandrockets

            Funny you should mention zombies. A case could be made that for truly effective close range self-defense only head shots matter. Since even after receiving a fatal heart wound a perp can take seconds to lose consciousness, seconds with which they could still inflict a fatal shot on you too. In which case a high-capacity 9mm would be an excellent choice, even using FMJ.

            Then again one could make the case for the intimidation factor short of gunfire in a self-defense situation. Nothing quite looks so outsized or intimidating as the large caliber holes of a .44 or .45 five-shot revolver!

          • frankspeak

            you be… THE JUDGE!…

          • frankspeak

            gun clerk asked serpico the same question..when he bought the Hi-Power…still got shot…

        • iksnilol

          Well, if every shot hits then you’re still about even.

        • frankspeak

          only works for Dirty Harry…like using a .458 magnum in an urban area to take out a guy with a MP40…guess who won!…only in hollywood…

      • coyote-hunter

        There is no such thing as “too much gun”…But there is such a thing as no gun.

    • Craig Cornejo

      i was thinking the same thing

  • ??

    .45 Super is just that.

  • gunsandrockets

    Now that I’ve watched the vid, I can see TYM ignored .45 ACP used in a revolver. Tsk tsk. Serious oversight.

    • Joe Gamer

      It’s awful to shoot in a revolver though…lol
      I’d much rather shoot my .357 than my friends .45 revolver.

      • DataMatters

        .45 ACP revolvers rock! Especially with moon clips or half moon clips. Watch some of those videos of Miculek.

        • Joe Gamer

          One of my shooting buddies has one, a snub .45 smith and wesson. Maybe it’s just that particular one but it is punishing to shoot, I put a dozen rounds through it every few months because I’m a glutton but so far it has the worst recoil of any handgun I’ve ever fired. I can shoot my .357 all day long but it isn’t a snubby either.
          ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

        • Joe Gamer

          One of my shooting buddies has one, a snub .45 smith and wesson. Maybe it’s just that particular one but it is punishing to shoot, I put a dozen rounds through it every few months because I’m a glutton but so far it has the worst recoil of any handgun I’ve ever fired. I can shoot my .357 all day long but it isn’t a snubby either.
          He loves it though, It is VERY intimidating with that big fat barrel.
          ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

          • m-dasher

            sounds like you need a prescription for a pair of testicles.

            get yourself a snub .357 and a few thousand rounds and learn to deal with recoil like a man

          • FarmerB

            Meh – go .460 snub nose or go home.

  • Cleetus

    Carry a Mk. 23 with. 45 Super, problems solved. That’s why God invented open carry.

    • mbrd

      yeah, but then i’ve got to recruit the rest of the crew to serve the weapon.

  • 22winmag

    Caliber has become largely irrelevant with the perfection of hyper velocity Liberty ammo. I get a consistent, reliable 2,000fps out of my .40S&W FNS and 2,400fps out of my 10mm Witness with uncanny accuracy. Liberty’s advertised 1,900+fps in .45ACP will surely get the job done too.

    • Ron

      Caliber has always been largely irrelevant, there have always been three factors: First and most important is where the person is hit, second and almost as important is the state of mind of the person who gets shot and third but almost irrelevant is what they are shot with.

      • DataMatters

        I would think velocity is also kind of key–it’s hard to fight back when your torso has just been turned into hamburger. Thinking more about rifle rounds with that comment, though.

        • Ron

          Increasing damage can help, but the degree of effect is person to person dependent. I remember in 08 in AFG, a solider was hit in the torso by a RPG round that did not detonate while gunning in a turret, despite having 80+ mm hole in the torso he continued to fire his gun till he bleed to death, so if that did not instantly stop him in that circumstances, a round that fragments or creates 1-2″ of crushed meat won’t either.

      • David S

        True from the perspective of 1 bullet, but a 1 shot pistol with perfect shot placement is no gun if the bad guy has a friend.

    • Spencerhut

      Liberty ammo is really not that great. You think in the last 100 years no one else thought of lighter & faster?
      “The Civil defense from Liberty Ammunition
      was the worst round we tested. It failed the F.B.I test and didnโ€™t do
      anything well. It would created a hell of a surface wound but would fail
      to penetrate bone and muscle and hit major organs.”

      • Swarf

        Like clockwork.

        This is all I know about Liberty ammunition:

        Comment 1: Liberty ammo is the magic! 2000 fps with a heavy bullet solves all problems and cured my lame horse.

        Immediate follow up comment: Liberty ammo fails the FBI denim test, isn’t as fast as they claim, and I fixed your horses leg.

        • ozzallos .

          All I know about it is the ballistics gel testing from youtube. The wound channel, while not as deep, is explosively ugly. I don’t think I would be under-gunned carrying it.

    • iksnilol

      Yeah, but those rounds have crappy range and penetration.

  • DanGoodShot

    When I bought my first ccw back when I had hair and could see my toes when I stood up straight. I did a butt ton of research for months. I ended up with a 9mm. To this day I still carry a 9. Now I’ve bought plenty of other calibers since. Played with countless calibers, powders and bullets at the reloading bench. There where a few times I was tempted to change. However, due to recoil, cost per round (train with what I shoot) difference in wound chanel being neglagable and, ofcoures capacity, in the end I stuck with my 9. My least favorite I’d say has to be the 40. Difference in abilities over the 9 are almost nonexistent. While difference in recoil, capacity and cost per round are impossible to ignore. Yup. 9. That my feelings on it anyway.

    • Spencerhut

      .40 Short and Weak sucks eggs . . . and I’ve shot enough to know.

      • Brian Peterson

        In a vacuum, I really enjoy my USP Compact 40. Not saying the round is amazing better than other rounds, just that particular pistol chambered in that round has been controllable (I have big strong hands though) for me. But thinking about it, when I hand it off to my female range companion, though she insists she wants one…well… can you say muzzle flip??

        • Swarf

          You must have a really big vacuum.

          • Brian Peterson

            Yuge….. I do most of my thinking in there…

    • Swarf

      I chose 9mm for semi and .357/.38 for revolver and my Marlin 1894, and since I reload, that is really a pretty big world.

      .45 is a broadsword in a rapier world.

      • ozzallos .

        I approve of this analogy.

      • iksnilol

        Let’s just mention that rapiers overtook broadswords for a good reason ๐Ÿ˜‰

        • RogUinta

          This is true. Effeminate, limp-wristed fops couldn’t hold up a broadsword.

          • Swarf

            …and then they poked 17 holes in the fat lunk, bleeding him out before he could finish overhand grunt-thrusting his out-dated steel.

            You’re really not getting this analogy, are you? ๐Ÿ™‚

  • marine6680

    He made two videos, in the second he clarified his position better.

    His basic argument is… between all the common defensive calibers, 380, 9mm, 40, 45, 38, and 357… That the 45 is not best at anything.

    So while a capable round, others offer something to set them apart or make them a better choice due to the platform and or other considerations.

    • ozzallos .

      Bias is bias. Reduce the bullet weight and I instantly have .40sw minus a round or two in the mag. 230gr isn’t the only flavor 45acp they come in. I can understand the argument for 9mm and similar calibers. Everybody loves capacity, but he’s got it backwards with his focus on 45acp. Everything you can do in 40, I can do better in 45acp frankly.

      • marine6680

        That requires reloading or a boutique ammo maker.

        And now you have less rounds in your pistol, than the caliber you are trying to emulate… and due to the size, the pistol must be at least somewhat larger. At that point, 40 would be the best choice.

        Most don’t care that they can load a round up or down. And once the rounds are in the gun, the ability to alter loads at the bench is of no consequence.

        I’m not really a fan of 40 either… It’s advantages over 9mm have shrunk greatly or disappeared entirely. If you choose your load from one of the modern offerings…

        So I see 40 likewise being low on the list of carry caliber choice.

        So for me, I can see a case for 9mm, 380, 38, and 357… But for defense from human attackers, 357 isn’t really better statistically than others, not with modern loads anyway. So the recoil and flash seem unneeded.

        A 38 revolver is a good choice for certain people, so it gets a pass.

        380 can fit into smaller guns than 9mm while still retaining the power needed to be effective. Provided you choose a good load.

        9mm is capable and offers the least recoil and most capacity, in the service calibers.

        • The Deplorable Mr Evilwrench

          They may be referring to .357SIG rather than .357 mag. It seems to have a growing following.

          • marine6680

            No… I mean 357 mag…

            The fabled stopping power is a byproduct of the era it was first introduced. With modern loads, all the other calibers have improved. The gap has closed.

        • bob

          Who needs a gazillion bullets?? When you engage in a real gun fight, as a civilian, YOU are responsible for EVERY bullet that goes down range. Spray and pray in a Urban environment will likely end you up in jail. Forget capacity, SHOT Placement is the ONLY thing that counts in a real gun fight !

          • marine6680

            Yes… but it is unreasonable to assume all your shots are hits.

            Seeing as all of the major defense calibers have virtually the same performance in terminal ballistics…

            Picking a round that has lower capacity and more recoil seems counter productive.

          • iksnilol

            forget shot placement if you got no more rounds left ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • frankspeak

            now somebody tell..[and sell.]..it to the cops…45 shots into the puerto rican reaching for his cell phone..50 sh0ts into the bridegroom the night before the wedding..over 90 shots into a couples car…maybe THEY should be carrying revolvers!…don’t get me wrong..i’m a big supporter of our boys in blue..it just seems like…in a stressful situation…they [sometime]… just empty the gun…..

      • Sgt. Stedenko

        I dont think he’s biased against 45 acp as he owns several SIGs in .45.
        1911’s, P220 elite, etc, etc
        Have you ever watched his channel?

      • nighthawk9983

        He’s not biased at all, I think his jab was more to 1911 owners and the 7 round magazine. a .357 magnum wheel gun with 7 or even 8 rounds in the cylinder is superior in every way to a 1911, even with conceal carry. Yes Glock makes .45 along with HK, FN and Sig but let’s be realistic here, do the stereotypical ’45 guys’ carry those guns? No, they carry an obsolete clunker called a single-stack 1911. Anyone who’d take 7 rounds of .45 ACP in a pistol over 7 rounds of .357 Mag in a revolver is off their meds. NOw a USP with 12 rounds, an FNX with 15? yes, that along with modern .45 bullet tech gives you some real advantages if weight and size are non-issues.

        • gunsandrockets

          Talk about stacking the deck. You are comparing a large frame .357 magnum revolver to a .45 ACP 1911? Be fair. A 3 inch barreled revolver has almost no power advantage over a similarly sized +P .45 ACP automatic.

          And restricting the discussion to just 1911 vs Revolvers, there are plenty of other fine cartridges available for the 1911 than 45 ACP. If one is going to make the technologically obsolete argument, it most certainly applies more to revolvers than to the 1911!

        • disqus_f62emCdwDh

          “Obsolete clunker?” Compared to a revolver?

          I’ve shot the 1911 and the .45 cartridge for 42 years. It does require a bit more knowledge of its workings than more modern designs, but it is also strong in construction, simple in operation, and those who know how to run the pistol make it a viable choice for those who are not uniformed officers, but ordinary enthusiast shooters. It doesn’t hurt to have some direct gunsmithing experience on them, and I do, but the many examples of CNC machined newer ones operate just fine.

          Other than shooting a black bear, cougar, or like animals in our local Oregon woods, if you take a six shot .357 into those rare numbers of locations, great, but do not discount the .45 1911’s ability to do well on the street. Mine uses eight round magazines, plus two spares on the belt. I do not consider myself ill-armed.

          • frankspeak

            seems like no body’s mentioning all the safety features on the 1911…as opposed to lack of same on the glock….

    • Nothing is the best at everything, but often something that is good at everything is better than everything else.

      • marine6680

        The argument is that 45 really isn’t good at much.

        As far as terminal ballistics, its demonstrably not superior, to any significant degree, to 9mm or 40sw. (In fact, they are all very similar in performance from a terminal ballistic perspective… as are most other calibers that are considered good defense calibers.)

        Its larger size means that it has less capacity in a similar sized frame than other options. Its also longer, so the grip of the pistol must be bigger as well. This means it can be less ergonomic in the hand for some.

        Its barrier penetration through car glass and sheet metal is not as good as other options.

        It has more recoil than other options.

        All that combined, make it less than ideal as a carry caliber… There is nothing you can point to and say, this aspect makes it better than other calibers.

        Looking at the big three, 9, 40, 45… They are all similar in performance ballistically, So you can’t use that as a criteria to make your choice. The goal is to make the bad person stop doing bad things… and between these three they all perform roughly the same. So you need to use other criteria to make your choice.

        So beyond ballistic performance, all other criteria needs to be maximized for best performance…

        Recoil… less is better.
        Capacity… more is better.

        There are other criteria, but they are of lesser concern, and they are either all similar in them, or 45 is not the best in that category.

        I used to be a big fan of 40sw, thinking it was the best defense round available, all things considered… But about 5 years back, I stepped back and examined my beliefs, and the current realities and facts as we know them… And after looking at everything as objectively as I could… I changed my mind. 40 is no longer my choice for defense.

        I would even argue that the fabled “stopping power” of 357mag, is just that… a fable… At least relative to present day bullet performance… More a product of the circumstances of the time frame in which it was introduced. As time and tech has moved on, the edge 357 had, has decreased significantly.

        • I have a 9mm and a 45. The 9 is easier to shoot and holds more rounds, but the 45 is so much better ergonomically, for me and I like the way it points in my hand. It feels more natural. My only complaint is weight. Both pistols are metal and with full magazines are as heavy as I would want to carry in warm climes and then some. I see a M&P sub compact 45 or XDs in 45 in my future. If I can’t get it done with 6 or 7 or 8 rounds, then I am doing something wrong. Recoil isn’t a huge factor and the ranges social work is performed, it doesn’t matter. If I really want to make sure I kill the SOB, I’ll use my 444 Marlin. That has kick, at both ends.

          • marine6680

            In the same platform?

          • No, one is a Commander and the other is a double action Hi Power, which is sort of a S&W 59 crossed with a Hi Power. It’s 13 shots. The Commander is all steel.

          • marine6680

            Then I would not call that a caliber difference, its all down to platform differences.

            If you owned 9mm and 45 in the same platform (ie glock or M&P) then you could make a case for ergonomics and shootability and which is better.

            Platform preference is fine, that’s not an issue, I am just saying that you can not compare calibers from two completely different types/styles of firearm.

            You may find a 9mm commander is even better shooting.

            I have seen people who get used to one platform and then briefly try another, and declare it inferior… (IE, I shot a 9mm commander once, and it didn’t shoot right.) it takes a little while to adjust to something new, and until then you can not accurately gauge the differences. So if you ever try, keep that in mind.

          • I didn’t exactly. I like the ergos of the 1911 and if I was going to buy another one, I wouldn’t get 9mm. Maybe 38 Super if I wanted more capacity, maybe not. I owned a 38 Super once. It was setup like a Gold Cup. It was ok. They have better ammo for it today, but that goes for just about everything.

          • marine6680

            Fair enough… But I don’t think you gain anything with 38 super over a 9mm.

            The extra energy is pretty much a waste in pistols, from all the research available.

          • And I didn’t keep it long. It was setup like a gold cup, shot well, but it didn’t grow on me. The one pistol I wish I kept was a 4″ python. It would be worth a fortune today. The best shooting pistol I have owned was a smith model 15 with an action job. It’s all fun.

          • iksnilol

            Why not get a 9mm version of the gun you have in .45?

          • I thought I explained it. There’s no advance worth the exercise.

        • disqus_f62emCdwDh

          IF you are a uniformed officer or NCO in LE or the service, then “barrier penetration,” “firepower,” and deeper and thicker magazines make perfect sense. From the standpoint of a standard CCW holder, maybe not. Legally, there aren’t very many situations I can think of when one would be justified in shooting into a vehicle. Perhaps you could elucidate situations where I am missing something?

          • marine6680

            Shooting out of your vehicle…

            When someone gets pissed at you for a traffic faux pas, gets in front of you at the next light, gets out and approaches you with a weapon…

          • frankspeak

            or when someone pulls up next to you…and just starts shooting…it happens..

      • dltaylor51

        Be wary of the man who only owns one gun,he probably knows how to use it with his eyes closed.

        • iksnilol

          Oh boy, you’ve never met a fudd have you?

          • dltaylor51

            Elmer or Barack?

    • Just1Saddletramp

      Despite the comments on this post most LEOs, if given a choice, will pick a .40 or .45. There is a reason and it is real.

      • drizd

        Much of that is locker room talk and repackaged retransmitted firearms instructor speeches and many of those are of ancient vintage .

        • nighthawk9983

          Aside from the fact that FBI stats have .40 as the highest volume killer of criminal scum.

          • Billy Jack

            FBI stats also say more agents can get off more destructive rounds more accurately with the 9mm. That is why they switched. They switched to make more agents as good as the few who can wield .40 well.
            Stats may be misleading as well. Spears were the highest volume killer of caveman scum besides tooth decay but all they had was spears.

          • frankspeak

            didn’t the FBI use 9mm’s in that wild shootout in, I believe, MIami, a while back..the one that got multiple agents killed..they just kept pluggiing these guys…and they wouldn’t go down!

          • Billy Jack

            2-3 agents had 9mm’s. Most of the agent shooting was done with .357 revolvers. Stopping power was an excuse to cover the horrible tactical decisions made. One of the 3 9mm’s was lost out of a car door during collisions driving down the street pursuing the suspects. Because the 9mm round stopped just short of one perp’s heart and his adrenaline kept him fighting, the 9mm was too weak. It went through the guy’s arm, lung and although it ended up killing him, it wasn’t fast enough. The .357 magnum round shattered a guy’s forearm but didn’t keep going into the perp or kill him but nobody’s going to say it might as well have been a .22 LR.

            Those perps had mini-14’s and the feds had revolvers and 2 shotguns. The feds were all shot with .223 rounds which were responsible for killing the agents. The perps were experienced killers and bank/armoredcar/anybody robbers. One perp took 6 shots to go down and the other was hit 12 times. They were BAMFs with hatred in their hearts and rifles in their hands. Don’t take a revolver or a shotgun to an AR party.They were outgunned and had no decent body armor.

            Truth is, like most bureaucracies, they will manufacture a reason to do anything when it’s necessary. Making it rain 9mm Speer Gold Dot is gonna kill most people so I have no horse in this race.

          • El Mac

            Lot’s of inaccurate “facts” there in your post BJ. You should do your homework before you spew.

          • Billy Jack

            Disqus is messed up or something. Your reply and my response aren’t showing on TFB yet. Basically, drop the correct info or you’re just teasing us. I wasn’t trying to skew anything.

          • frankspeak

            most agents carry more firepower these days… locked in their trunk…I know..I tried to peek!..was my understanding a female agent was on the way with heavier weapons…just didn’t get there in time

          • marine6680

            Yeah… when you have more of something, its going to show up as a larger percentage in statistics.

            If you have 75% of a field using X, then its going to show up in statistics 75% of the time. It does not mean better, it just means more popular.

            And when it comes to 40sw, the popularity is based on outdated ideas.

            That is why many are switching back to 9mm.

      • marine6680

        Yes, and that reason is… Lack of information and bias based of faulty logic.

        “Bigger is better. More power is better”… studies and statistics show that this is not the case for the common defensive rounds.

        People have an ingrained bias to think bigger/more is better, but that does not always hold true. It’s also very hard to overcome built in bias… to the point many refuse to believe evidence that disproves their belief.

  • gunsandrockets

    What about New Jersey? Where expanding bullets are illegal? I think .45 ACP has an advantage there.

    .45 ACP also works well with cheap lead bullets.

    I suspect .45 ACP will have an advantage if using an exotic light bullet, like solid zinc.

    • Major Tom

      In Colorado so-called self-defense loads have low availability even if they aren’t illegal. You can scour a hundred gun shops here and find only a relative handful of self-defense loads.

      Plus any bullet you buy here may have to do double duty as a hunting or critter round and Division of Wildlife doesn’t like it if you use a JHP or that flower-pattern fragmenting bullet on a nuisance bear since they tend to exacerbate an animal’s suffering owing to differences in biology.

      • DIR911911 .

        have the Division of Wildlife tell the bear to leave me alone and I won’t shoot him.

        • Major Tom

          The bear does what he wants. Kinda like Putin or Trump.

      • billyoblivion

        Da fuq you talking bout Willis?

        There’s plenty on the shelf at Cabelas south of Denver and/or Bass Pro on the north side. At least there was last time I went down the aisle.

        • Major Tom

          And therein lies the problem. Not all of us live in Denver or thereabouts. Here in the south half of the state nearly all the bullets are regular stuff for general use. Specialist home defense stuff doesn’t have the volume of sale to be widely carried down here.

          • billyoblivion

            When you live in the hinterlands you buy what your neighbors buy.

            Frankly I buy most of my ammo online anyway. UPS/fedex ground delivers almost anywhere. Matter of fact I just had 1000 rounds of 9mm range ammo show up two days ago.

          • Paul

            There is always Untidy Partial Solutions.

            Do they deliver to Bent’s Fort, or where ever you reside?

          • Bill

            Great reference, Kit Carson.

          • Marcus D.

            Mail order (internet) is your friend. I have been buying everything from Freedom Munitions for a while now for both price and quality.

          • frankspeak

            “CHEAPER than DIRT”…ain’t no lie!…..

      • frankspeak

        ROAD TRIP!….

    • Spencerhut

      Move to a different state, one not run by commies.

      • Swarf

        I’ll bet that was super easy to type.

        • Spencerhut

          And?

          • Swarf

            And: I don’t think it’s as easy to pick up your life, family, and career and move as it is to drop smug advice nuggets on the internet.

          • Spencerhut

            We did . . . bye bye commiefornia. My family lived in California for my entire 48 years. Three years ago when the laws they were passing were going to make me a criminal for doing nothing but owning objects we planned and executed a move to a more friendly state 1200 miles away. You simply lack the courage to leave your comfort zone. Stop feeding the commies your taxes.

          • Swarf

            Easy there, Captain Murica. I wasn’t talking about me, not that it matters. I live in a fairly stable state.

            Good for you for standing up for your convictions and all, but calling armed people cowards just for not uprooting their families according to your criteria is no way to make friends.

          • BEO-JAR

            Score:
            Swarf; III
            Spencerhut; II, ..but a really, really strong second shot!

            Jarhead Mike-Foxtrot.

            “I have spoken..i have spoken.” King Hrothgar – Beowulf

          • Spencerhut

            Coward? Your word. Courage can and does build in the strong until action is taken by those courageous enough to stick by their convictions and act. There have been plenty of plenty of armed cowards throughout history.

            You choose what you are, not me.

          • iksnilol

            Well, running away from your problem to another state is sorta cowardish.

          • Spencerhut

            I would suggest you take a reading comprehension class and then re-read my comments.

          • frankspeak

            or forming an underground resistance movement…”when guns are outlawed etc., etc.”……non-cooperation can send a powerful message…

          • iksnilol

            Plenty of non-conformers in Cali IIRC.

          • frankspeak

            that’s encouraging…

          • frankspeak

            a little disheartening to see how easily people are to accept these restrictions…non-cooperation is the way to go..a bit like prohibition

          • Joshua

            do you understand what happens when that idea is the norm? you wind up with nowhere to move to. If your enemy understands that you will not fight, that instead you will walk away, they will keep confronting you, because you will let them win, and eventually, you will not have a “free state” to move to. Just some food for thought for you

          • Spencerhut

            This is a war with the commies on the left. We fought like crazy in CA but the numbers overwhelmed us. Never underestimate stupid people in large groups. So we made a well planned retreat to ground we are better able to defend populated by a much higher percentage of like minded people.
            I did not let them win, the other 90+ percent of GUN OWNERS in California that sit idly by and do nothing while bad bills are passed and and crooked politicians are elected did.
            Leaving a battle when those around you refuse to fight is not letting them win, it’s being smart and choosing better battle buddies.

          • frankspeak

            too many fruits and nuts out there!…..

          • frankspeak

            not really…you just increase the amount of pro-gun people in another state…and form a powerful voting bloc!…the left coast, illinois and parts of the northeast are the only places this nonsense has taken root….

          • frankspeak

            yeah,..they just keep pushin’…testing your limits…better to resist right from the get go…

          • nighthawk9983

            Pursuing freedoms is not about being easy. If things are unbearable, moving is a solid option, in fact it’s the impetus for the expansion of this country and all the immigration to it.

          • frankspeak

            SARCO did it!….

      • Yeah, that’s workin’ out real well for Colorado, huh.

        • frankspeak

          well,..the tokers want guns..try to work them into the fold…

      • Shaun Connery Oliver II

        Amen to that brother! I will say ‘Forget you! I am out of here! I rather die in a free state peacefully than die due to your BS laws!’

      • coyote-hunter

        idiot!

      • frankspeak

        or become a “made man” in the mafia…bada bing!

      • frankspeak

        people should have access to anything the cops have…..

    • PureLogic

      Even in NJ it’s legal to use them at home and at the range. It’s just carrying them that’s illegal. But no one has a permit to carry anyway.

      • frankspeak

        shall issue vs will issue…look for that to be attacked in the courts….

    • frankspeak

      dum de DUM DUM!….

  • gunsandrockets

    I do agree with TYM though, that in general a .40 S&W is a better choice than .45 ACP.

    • Spencerhut

      .40 Short & Weak is never a better choice. 9×19 or .45ACP, or .380ACP if you are a 99yo grandma with degenerative arthritis.

  • LCON

    Jimmies will be Rustled

  • William Sullivan

    How many people have you “experts” shot with a .45? Oh what, none?

    • mbrd

      do you mean like actual type people? can i count paper people? what about water heater people?

      • William Sullivan

        So none. Another expert talking out his ass.

  • Bullphrog855

    My favorite thing about the 9mm vs 45 ACP is the parallels between it and the 9mm vs .380 debate with compacts. Fun to watch the 9mm crowd act like the .45 crowd when talking about the .380 even though technology advancements has made the .380 match 9mm wound cavity and such. Just like it did with 9mm.

    • DataMatters

      With the .380, I’ve decided it isn’t the round so much as some of the pistols that fire it. The damn tiny things just have zero margin for error in them. The SIg P232 or the Beretta 85 series were great little guns. But these CAD designed micro-concealed carry .380s are just unreliable. It all looks good on paper, though. Even the PPK kind of sucked. The PP was great.

      • ostiariusalpha

        Bully for the PP! The Remington M51 is a great .380 gun also (though a bit of a chore to field strip).

      • billyoblivion

        After the first two or three magazines through the gun I’ve had no failures with my LCP.

        Then again I’m only about 500 rounds in.

        My “issue” with the micro .380s is that they just suck to shoot. Not that they are inaccurate or anything but they just hammer your hand.

        • drizd

          Try an LCP. you should love it for it’s intended use. Kicks about like a Colt 45 by my impression and deadly accurate within 15 yards. The last time I shot qualification my LCP Custom shot all head shots at 15 yards relatively rapid fire. I’m no elite marksman either. You don’t need better than that from a gun that feels like a smart phone in your pocket.

          • billyoblivion

            Do you even *READ* bro?

            From the FIRST SENTENCE of the post you’re replying to:

            “After the first two or three magazines through the gun I’ve had no failures with my LCP.”

            Note the last three letters of the sentence.

          • mbrd

            so did you end up trying an lcp? hahahaa!

          • billyoblivion

            Maybe next time I go to the range I’ll see if the LCP works better than my LCP.

      • Bart

        If you are going to carry something the size and weight of a Beretta 85 (or CZ83), then why not just go with a Glock 19/M&P9/SR9/XD instead?
        The way I see it, the main advantage of the .380 is the tiny little guns that shoot it. My P3AT just disappears in a pocket (though I generally prefer my 642 instead).

        • iksnilol

          You ditch the hassle of a booster when suppressing it. + the fixed barrel gives better precision (especially if you pop in a match barrel).

          These are things that we professional assassins don’t mind.

          In all seriousness, you get ridicilously controlability out of a medium sized .32 while getting good capacity (15 outta the CZ 83 which is pretty small compared to full size handguns).

      • Bart

        If you are going to carry something the size and weight of a Beretta 85 (or CZ83), then why not just go with a Glock 19/M&P9/SR9/XD instead?
        The way I see it, the main advantage of the .380 is the tiny little guns that shoot it. My P3AT just disappears in a pocket (though I generally prefer my 642 instead).

      • gunsandrockets

        What about Walther PK380?

      • iksnilol

        Get a large .32 or .380 such as the CZ 83 and enjoy, trust me ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • frankspeak

        only trust the .380 in a smg…there..with a suppressor…it’s one lethal little mother…sounds like a sewing machine…but sews a mean stitch!

    • ozzallos .

      ADVANCEMENTS IN BULLET TECHNOLOGY…only apply to the fanboy caliber of your choice.

      • CommonSense23

        Advancements in bullet technology aren’t applied equally across the calibers.

      • Shaun Connery Oliver II

        Agreed. I saw the Wonder Nine rally to become a powerhouse in today’s CCW society. While I like the .45, I will buy the Hudson H9 once it comes out. I like the 9mm, I want to try something new. Any one care to disagree?

    • When I can buy a Glock 25 in the United States I’ll be a .380 man.

      • L Cavendish

        they had to make the Glock 42 here in the USA…can’t import the .380s
        maybe Trump will get the rules relaxed

        • David S

          Relax the rules so things can be produced outside the US? Think that one through. That is probably one of the few rules that won’t get repealed. Kind of like a chicken tax for American manufacturers of small pistols.

          • frankspeak

            be kind of nice to allow the ones made here and exported..back into the country…now that may happen….

          • David S

            Yes, that is a different rule and one he may relax. Those aren’t foreign made.

    • When I can buy a Glock 25 in the United States I’ll be a .380 man.

    • n0truscotsman

      What advantages does 380 have over 9mm? because 9mm has a few advantages over 45.

    • nighthawk9983

      Ive never heard of this. I have heard 45 people say nonsense like ‘been around since 1911’ forgetting that 9mm has been around since 1903.

      • gunsandrockets

        Which 9mm? The 9mm Luger is generally credited to 1908 since it was developed for the German Army Luger. The Colt .38 automatic dates to about 1900.

    • Emperius

      Not sure why .380 is even considered. .380 is the same thickness as that of a 9mm, without losing much compatibility of the pistol. The grip can be “slightly” elongated t accommodate the longer 9mm, again grip length in the x-axis is not sacrificing compatibility, but grip length and thickness. .22, .25 and the .32 are compact rounds for me, skip the .380, then head to the 9mm. then there’s the explosive strength also as well.

      • retfed

        I agree.
        In the late 70s/early 80s I carried several different .380s as backups: PPK/S (terrible trigger), the old single-action AMT Backup (mine was the pre-AMT “OMC Backup”), and a Beretta 84 (best of the bunch, but the same size as a Detective Special). Then Smith came out with the 469. I sold all my .380s and never owned, or even fired, another one. I can see the utility of a .380 for someone who’s recoil sensitive, but since you can get a 9×19 in roughly the same size package, why not do it?

        • frankspeak

          browning used to make a decent .380..as part of that tri-gun set that included the Hi-Power and the BB…not as good-looking as the other two, though…..

  • Stephen Paraski

    I carried a Colt Combat Commander in the 90s working streets of Detroit. It was my back up, carried in small of back and it saved my life twice with FMJ ammo.

  • datimes

    I hope this woman does not pull the trigger as the recoil will break the zygomatic bone and probably seriously injure her eye.

    • DataMatters

      Kind of hard to do that with the gun at half-cock.

  • Edeco

    I like the one where Gary the Glock throws a beer can at him. Quit watching tho because his talk about his own self defence use gets annoying. There’s probably an hour of him switching perspectives, like he’s so serious he won’t leave it behind to go in a gun show, but he keeps it dutch loaded with Werewolf ammo. It’s not that funny or shocking to see someone I don’t know, a semi-fictional character basicsally, say they have certain priorities then flaunt them, especially the fifth and sixth times.

    Also he hand polishes stainless revolvers. Bleh. Tasteless, ameteur.

  • guest

    .45 and 1911 are one of the (many) American things that have a customer base simply because their status and reputation. There is no real advantage with either when compare to newer guns/ammo.

    • M-dasher

      eh, you cant really say that….as its a rather personal statement to make so broadly.

      personally i carry a glock, its lighter and higher capacity…..however, i shoot a 1911 better, it has a better trigger, and better ergos for me……the trade off is its weight and capacity.

      you cant really say one is better, because thats like asking which is a better car?…….sure a top fuel dragster is better on a 1/4 mile than a 4×4 pickup…….but a 4×4 pickup is better at carrying a fridge than a top fuel dragster.

      • guest

        The topic here is self-defense, so I stay on topic.
        And if we delve into recreational shooting – there are guns that are more comfortable and that perform better than a more or less stock 1911, and most of those are based on Hi-Power, not the 1911.
        As far as the calibre there is no, absolutely no niche that it can fill today from any practical point of view where it performs in any way better than the wide plethora of alternatives.
        And yes, 1911 just like the AR and just like any other gun or some local national alternative depending on nation will always dominate the market not for practical reasons but for nostalgia, reputation, some other mythical properties etc. Not just 1911 but a whole lot of “gun stuff” in general gets sold simply because of personal preference and design, not the mechanical aspects/performance.

    • nighthawk9983

      Good 1911s are severely overpriced. Single stack 1911s will always take a back seat to a .357 revolver, especially when you have 7 and even 8 round .357s
      I wouldn’t want a full size 1911 in any caliber if it wasn’t double stack at any rate. It’s not the caliber, it’s the ‘expected platform’.

      • The Deplorable Mr Evilwrench

        I have one of those 7 shot 686s and I wouldn’t try to conceal that beast anywhere. That one goes in an OC dropleg holster.

  • BattleshipGrey

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f4e9f3fa6e1a9f5e8d73f2715f9dc6146bc54dcb242ae7385e823e738246d44.jpg It’s too early in the morning to make popcorn and watch the debate.

  • Joe

    I have to agree, ball vs ball the 45 might have an edge over 9, but defensive ammo has come a long way in 20 years to negate the diameter advantage.
    I’ve got 3 9mm’s a .22 and a .357, which covers most of what I need.
    That said, I’m really drawn to the Browning Black Label 1911-.380 simply based on the reduced scale and enhanced ergonomics.

    • QuadGMoto

      I’m a big fan of Springfield’s EMP 4 9mm. It feels great in my hands, has been absolutely reliable, and the shots go where I put them, which is usually even where I want them. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      We got a 1911-380 compact for my wife. The Black Label version is really good, while I dislike the sights on the non-BL versions immensely. We like the pistol, but I’m currently working on a problem where the magazines allow the top round to nosedive into the front of the magazine when it’s full. (All 6 factory mags we have.) So for as much as we like it, and have perfect function with their nearly identical 1911-22, I can’t recommend it as a self-defense pistol.

    • QuadGMoto

      I’m a big fan of Springfield’s EMP 4 9mm. It feels great in my hands, has been absolutely reliable, and the shots go where I put them, which is usually even where I want them. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      We got a 1911-380 compact for my wife. The Black Label version is really good, while I dislike the sights on the non-BL versions immensely. We like the pistol, but I’m currently working on a problem where the magazines allow the top round to nosedive into the front of the magazine when it’s full. (All 6 factory mags we have.) So for as much as we like it, and have perfect function with their nearly identical 1911-22, I can’t recommend it as a self-defense pistol.

  • Jim Slade

    LOL- TFB: “Let’s see if we can get the 1911 crowd to do their impression of Donald Sutherland in BodySnatchers over an article…”
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a1ab70cdc9f3e83aa2c9049b39aea6b920483ab9646d08620c913c13e2c6bc0d.gif

    • frankspeak

      looks more like a calif gun grabber…”HIM…HE’s GOT ONE”!……

  • Pete Sheppard

    Technology has definitely overtaken the .45. Until hollowpoints were refined and became more reliable, the pure size of the .45 was the winner.

    • DIR911911 .

      good thing none of those new bullets are being made for 45’s . . . o wait, they are

      • Pete Sheppard

        True, but the relative gap between .45 and the smaller rounds has closed considerably. If limited to solid slugs, my choice would be .45 SWC without a doubt.

    • ozzallos .

      HOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
      How has “technology” overtaken the .45acp?!
      How does this technology not fully encompass the 45acp as well?!?!?

      If “technology” has increased 9mm by X effectiveness, how does 45 get left behind in that equation?!

      Yes, I’m getting hysterical, but no, no passes will be given. You get more bullet capacity. THAT’S IT.

      • iksnilol

        More range and faster times is also a factor to consider. And .45 doesn’t go through armor as well as faster calibers.

      • CommonSense23

        While 45ACP has also benefited from modern JHP. JHP improvements don’t mean each caliber magically gets a 50 percent improvement in ability. Some calibers benefited more tha, others.

      • Pete Sheppard

        IF I were forced to choose between a 1911 and a single stack service 9, such as a P.09 or a P.38, even with the best current bullets, I’d go with the .45, hands down. The higher capacity makes the ability to effectively engage more targets decisively between reloads, makes the best 9mm good enough.

      • David S

        Hollowpoints take advantage of velocity, low velocity rounds get less improvement from modern bullets.

        New powders take better advantage of high pressure cases, low pressure cases get less improvement from modern powders.

        45 is less able to take advantage of either advancement.

        Here is your citation

        http://www.ballisticsbytheinch com/

    • nighthawk9983

      it’s not technology. It’s lower capacity and compact size that pushes .45 ACP guns out of the limelight. And the fact that a single stack 1911 is a boat anchor but 45 people don’t like to go for superior glocks, USPs, Sigs and FNX. If size and weight aren’t an issue a full size .45 ACP with 12-15 rounds on tap is ideal. But when you need something small, slim, and easy to carry, it’s out of the question and with new tech 380s and 9mm you don’t need to worry about any perceived loss of lethality.

  • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

    But the .45 is fat and slow. Im also fat and slow. Its like we were made for each other. And Im also not the most optimized tool for killing people.

    • iksnilol

      Have… have you tried sitting on somebody?

      Then you might be the mosst optimized stool for killing people.

      • Anomanom

        No, the person he sits on would be the optimized stool.

        • iksnilol

          That is correct.

          • mbrd

            what must i eat to optimize my stool for killing people?

          • Zebra Dun

            Fiber!

      • Dr. Longfellow Buchenrad

        I knew a guy who was more along the lines of a mortar when comparing fatness and speed and his stool was very optimized for killing people… When he used the restroom he could clear a house.

        • Renato H M de Oliveira

          Hey Dr, why are you giving me away here? ?

        • Proud_to_be_American
          • Bad Penguin

            Tool my kids to a water park a few years back and the guys their needed bikini tops more than the women did.

        • Ned Weatherby

          House clearing can be important.

          • Billy Jack

            Exposing a lingering house guest comes to mind.
            Though when I get to birthing a Gamara larvae the only clearing that comes up involves a plunger with more horror stories than a Gitmo lifer.

      • Tassiebush
        • 1inidaho

          I love that movie!

          • Tassiebush

            It was awesome!

        • ThePontificator

          Unscan-able!!!!!!!!

    • frankspeak

      that makes two of us…..LOL!

  • mosinman

    Theclickbaitblog

  • Joe Gamer

    For the most part I agree with him, I’m not gonna say capacity is king but there is a balance to be struck, particularly for a concealed carry weapon that must also take size and weight into consideration.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4b312610fdf2c4cb39118b0d714a58d82d8222491d8676430917d91f4662eb9f.jpg

    • Ron

      twice, more like until it stops.

    • A bearded being from beyond ti

      A real 0p3r4t0r knows the Mozambique drill is the way to go.

      • Joe Gamer

        hehe, I was just thinking about that, the instructors around here teach this method. Two in the chest, one in the head, with the average .45 you could take down 2 and a half assailants!
        My personal opinion is that two in the chest OR one in the head should be sufficient, repeat as needed.

        • two in the chest with the right ammo will do the job too. Aim small, miss small.

          • iksnilol

            Thus, doublebarrel shotguns.

        • durabo

          Ideal accuracy is seldom accomplished under stress: Go for center mass and PRN until the threat is no longer active.

        • iksnilol

          Well, with a lupara I’d only be able to take down 0.7 assailants.

          ๐Ÿ™

      • Joe Gamer

        hehe, I was just thinking about that, the instructors around here teach this method. Two in the chest, one in the head, with the average .45 you could take down 2 and a half assailants!
        My personal opinion is that two in the chest OR one in the head should be sufficient, repeat as needed.

    • The Deplorable Mr Evilwrench

      My typical EDC is a Para P12, a .45 in 12+1 and as small as a lot of your 9s. Backup mags are P14 at 14 rounds each. I have GI Joe Kung Fu Grip, so recoil isn’t a thing. I feel pretty balanced ๐Ÿ™‚

      • L Cavendish

        then you have huge hands and are NOT the average gun owner/carrier
        good for you…

        • The Deplorable Mr Evilwrench

          They’re a bit largish, perhaps, but nothing exceptional. The grip thickness is maybe a hair’s breadth over a real 1911, it’s just a little blockier.

      • bob

        In what situation will you need to expend 13 rounds, a Zombie attack ?

        • Bad Penguin

          Thank you for pointing that out. Self defense shootings as a rule do not include long drawn out gunfights like in the Die Hard movies.

        • iksnilol

          Well, better to fire 5-6 rounds and have that many if not more left than the alternative.

          • Ned Weatherby

            Because no one ever went into a gunfight wishing for less ammo…

          • iksnilol

            I mean, I know, I’ll most likely be fine with just like 6 rounds that a snubbie holds. But, I’d sorta rather not empty my gun in an encounter.

          • mbrd

            i’d rather not get shot for lack of shootin’ back…

          • frankspeak

            use multi-plex ammo in my snubbie..5rds=15 slugs..not sure if they’re makin’ that stuff anymore….

          • iksnilol

            Yup, but its like 3 50 grain bullets.

          • I recall reading about an NYPD cop that was on the warrant squad or some special detail like that and he liked to load 38 wadcutters with the bullet backwards, IIRC. Said it worked a lot better than the lead round nose. Can’t remember his name. There were two of them and they shot a lot of perps in their careers. Both are dead now. I think they also started the use of the Jovino Effector. they wanted something that was better than a 38, but a snubbie. I wish I could remember their names. Some crazy ass stories too. NYC was nuts 40 years ago.

          • iksnilol

            Wadcutters backwards is as old school as it gets. Some even took steel BBs in the hollow base, this helped to basically guarantee expansion while not sacrificing much penetration. It’s an old school trick. I’ve done it with hollowpoints, added some to some 7.62×25 hollow points I managed to get. Too bad I had no gel to test it. Went through a tree (or several) is all I can say I witnessed. Made bigger holes than usual so I assume the BB pushing back against the bullet helped expansion.

            Of course I can’t condone what I did in my stupid “youth” (AKA 2-3 years ago) and that it was probably super illegal.

          • frankspeak

            so what’s it called these days?….

          • iksnilol

            I dunno, “horribly ineffective” or “borderline suicidal” are both fitting names? I mean, 3 50 grain bullets at 200 or meters per second is weak.

        • Stephen Paraski

          Late night gas station stop in Detroit.

    • durabo

      Why is the Dalai Lama giving us the British version of “up yours?”

      • David S

        He’s not British. Never took one of those PC courses on how not to offend foreigners either.

    • E Wolfe

      Two to center mass & one to the T-box! Rapid fire.

  • ExMachina1

    You can suppress full house 45ACP and still stay subsonic. For me and my home defense rig, that seals it

    • Paul White

      *That* I see, and if the HPA passes I’ll be buying a double stack 45, but for concealed carry I kind of have to agree with him. You sacrifice ammo capacity for no real discernable gain vs 9mm in terms of observed real world effectivness. And in pocket guns you’re already looking at low capacity (I wouldn’t care about 13 vs 15 but about 5 or 6 vs 7 or 8 I do).

      • ExMachina1

        True, and I guess my general view is that “self-defense” doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone in every situation. For me, 45ACP is the ideal self defense round when used in a full size gun; you can carry it and you can suppress it (at home) and never need to change the ammo. Is a full sized gun for everybody?–no. If I wanted a pocket gun I would (and do) move to a 9mm. But the FNX45 I keep next to my bed would not be made any “better” by going to a 9mm platform.

        People should be choosing calibers based upon the best platform size/weight for their needs. They should not be choosing the caliber first.

        • frankspeak

          glock 30 works well….extended mags readily available…carry it in a belly band holster…very low profile..and quite comfortable….

    • Joe Gamer

      .40sw is the same with bullets from the heavier end of the spectrum. It’s one of the things I always like about it, you can have it either way with bullet selection.

    • Toxie

      But you can suppress a full house 147Gr 9mm and stay subsonic too.

      • frankspeak

        subsonic 9mm can sometimes fail to cycle the action…actually had one plug up my barrel once…scary!….

    • Why does it matter to suppress it? If I have to use it, I really don’t care if the neighbors hear it.

      • ExMachina1

        Most of us suppress for the sake of our OWN ears, not our neighbors’

        • My ears are shot anyway. If I had to fire in a shootout, it won’t make a difference.

    • nighthawk9983

      45 ACP is subsonic in 180, 200 and 230 grain. It doesn’t need any special loads to be subsonic.

    • frankspeak

      not as quiet as the .380….but close….

  • stephen

    If you can’t hit what you’re aiming at, then it doesn’t matter what caliber you carry.

    ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Phillip Cooper

    Same asshat on the internet shares his opinion as fact.

    No f##ks to give, here. I file this right up there with that stupid Youtube bint that was eating the jello she was laying in a tub of.

  • k1452081

    .45 may not be the best, but it could’ve been. If gun companies would just build their guns to be .45 Super/SMC rated (like HK and some Springfields) we could have been using a higher pressure, more effective .45 by now and the transition would have been seamless.

  • Mmmtacos

    Can’t I just like .45? Can we leave it at that?

    • iksnilol

      I done reckon we could.

      Aw shucks, now its boring.

    • Spencerhut
      • retfed

        That’s a silly argument. The Colt Navy came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, too, but nobody carries them today.
        As far as giving our troops “the best tools possible,” the 1911 was the best tool possible in . . . 1911. After WWI, the military tried to dump it, but what little money the military had was going into rifle projects, so they had to settle for modifying the 1911 into the A1. After WWII the military tried to dump it again, in favor of a DA 9mm (due to weight factors), but the competitions were canceled, and the only thing that came of it was the S&W Model 39.
        If you like your Taft-era technology, just say so. You don’t have to imbue it with mystical qualities from the days when men were men. It’s okay to like and carry old things, but time marches on.
        Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to clean my Model 10.

        • a FNX-45 might be just the ticket and the Glock 21 wouldn’t be bad either.

        • coyote-hunter

          Some like blondes, and some like brunettes and theres a few hardy souls that like redheads…me? I prefer a .45.

          • retfed

            My rant was not about the .45 per se, but about the worshipful cult of the 1911. I was mainly talking about the idea that a piece of metal has a mystical quality.
            Hunks of metal don’t have mystical auras; they’re tools, plain and simple. When a better tool comes along, it’s nice to think good thoughts about the old one, but only a fool handicaps himself with a less efficient, obsolete tool. Especially one that’s meant to save your life.

          • coyote-hunter

            From your second rant I can see that you have no concept of what I was refering too….I may be a fool, but i’m a well armed fool…have been since 1968, including a combat tour of RVN….

          • retfed

            In 1968, there were no P220s,Glock 21s or 30s, etc., so the 1911 was probably the best choice (along with the Browning Hi-Power). Today, not so much. (I like ’68 Camaros, too, but they’re not as efficient or safe as today’s cars.)
            My statement regarding “fools” was actually aimed at people who advocate using a complex, obsolescent, maintenance-intensive Taft-era platform for serious military use when there are so many better alternatives.
            The 1911 is perfectly adequate for civilian personal defense in the United States, better choices notwithstanding.
            I like old things, too. My Model 10 comment was only half a joke. So I guess you and I are fools together.

          • Proud_to_be_American

            If you’ve noticed virtually everything made in recent decades, be it a washing machine or an automobiles is either too expensive or incapable of being repaired or rebuilt. This is because they don’t make money selling parts, they make money selling NEW CARS etc. etc. That’s the push to always increase the “Bottom Line.”

          • iksnilol

            That’s consumerism in a nutshell.

          • billyoblivion

            It’s more complex than that.

            Back before the industrial revolution a man’s time was WAY cheaper than the materials he worked on. Nails were *hella* expensive to make, ship and hence use so it was cheaper to have a skilled craftsman do a mortise and tenon joint, or dovetail or etc. than it was to “glue and screw” or “glue and nail” two pieces of wood together.

            My uncle Pete (WW2 Navy vet) used to pull nails and pound them straight for re-use, because when he was a lad nails were *expensive*.

            Today they are so cheap we only pick them up because we don’t want to step on them. Well, and we don’t want the place to look like s*t.

            In 2009 I dropped a DMC-LX3 camera (then 2-3 years old) on the ground and rendered it unusable.

            I sent it back to Panasonic and they wanted $52 dollars just to llok at it. Honestly I don’t remember what I paid to have it fixed, but when I did the math at the time spending 200 bucks to fix a 600 dollar camera was worth it. Fixing a 150 dollar point and shoot would have cost *almost* as much because a large part of that cost was labor.

            So for a 600 dollar camera paying 200 to “make it new” is worth it. For a 150 dollar camera? Doesn’t make sense.

            On the other hand I’ve got a rarely worn Gen I ECWCS Parka (old woodland cammo) with a zipper that is missing a tooth. I would be willing to pay to get this fixed.

            But the thing is I can find this on the internet for ~70 bucks “new”. As near as I can figure on a quick google search JUST the zipper is 10 bucks. If it takes a semi-skilled seamstress/seamster 30 minutes to remove, replace and re-waterproof that zipper that’s going to be 35 to 40 bucks in labor.

            So 45 to 55 bucks to fix something I can “replace” for 70 dollars.

            But I believe in fixing where I can, so I tried to find a place to fix it. I live in a Denver, which has a LOT of people who do outdoor stuff and who believe (or claim to) in “reduce, reuse, recycle”.

            I could find **ONE** person who did repairs on outdoor clothing and gear like that (you don’t want to take it to a regular tailor because they don’t give a flip about waterproofness). I called two other places and got nothing.

            There is a *ton* of money in selling parts, but there is also significant amount of money one needs to spend in *time* to fix something, and when there’s a newer model out that is (often) half again as good, the economics of fixing v.s. replacing is tough.

            Oh, and I should note that I have a 1984 land cruiser that I’m saving up (sort of) to get the fuel injector pump (diesel) fixed on, and my newest motor vehicle is a 2004. I *believe* in fixing things where it is practical and economical. I’m ordering a new screen for a laptop that got damaged (40 dollar screen, 300 dollar laptop). My wife is taking her sewing machine in to get fixed on (Singer, daughter broke it) etc.

            It’s just that in a first world country labor has *long* been more expensive than nails. Just the way it is.

          • frankspeak

            “68 camaros chief selling point was neither safety nor efficiency..they were just sexy!…and harken back to a time when buying a car was not akin to purchasing a refrigerator!…

          • retfed

            So, is a ’68 Camaro as safe and efficient as a ’17 Camaro?

          • frankspeak

            back then nobody cared!….all a car had to be was hot!

          • El Mac

            Ralph Nader? That you Ralphie?

          • Guns haven’t made the technological leap cars have made since 1968.

          • retfed

            But they’ve made a few since 1911, and mostly they became mainstream after 1968. The Walther lockwork from the 20s didn’t become popular till the Wondernine period of the late 70s/early 80s. Striker-fired pistols date back to the cheap Spanish .25s of the early 20th century, but they didn’t become viable in serious calibers till the 80s.
            As I said earlier, show me a pistol in general use today that uses a separate barrel bushing or a swinging barrel link. They don’t exist, because those parts are weak links (heh!) and designers got rid of them. (Like, for instance, John Moses Browning.)
            I don’t think the 1911 is useless. It’s just obsolete for military combat today. Its basic design is the basis for most pistols in use today, but later, better designs have come along and improved on it.
            When the pygmies stand on the shoulders of the giant, JMB is the giant. But the pygmies can still see further.

          • I don’t see the advantage of a Glock over a 1911 for combat, but maybe I don’t get out enough either. That said, I know cars better and there is such a huge difference between a new Camaro and one from 1968. Just the cybernetics alone…That said, when the EMP comes, which one will run? My major complaint against Glocks/striker fired pistols is ergonomics and the funky trigger. I would imagine they are more difficult to fully strip in the field too. The 1911 is relatively simple and tools aren’t needed, but like you said, time moves on and so does progress.

          • retfed

            Your point about the EMP is well taken, but since an EMP would pretty much send us back to 1850, with no electricity (hope your prepper pump as a handle!), no food distribution, and no heating gas (hope you have a biiiig tank!), starting your new car will be the least of your worries.
            The advantage of a Glock over a 1911 is: Glocks don’t need the maintenance that 1911s do, even down to lubrication. Someone once said, “If you treat your gun like you treat your lawn mower, buy a Glock.” That was meant to be a slam on Glocks, but realistically, if you can’t regularly field strip and maintain your pistol (like after an EMP,for instance), a Glock will keep running long after a 1911 chokes.
            Ergonomics is personal, and I can’t comment on it. I prefer the trigger on a K-frame revolver, but the Glock trigger is perfectly adequate, as plenty of deceased criminals around the world would be happy to attest, but they can’t, ’cause they’re dead.
            And, the Glock and the 1911 aren’t the only two guns in the world. I prefer a Sig P220 to a Glock or a 1911, and a Model 19/66 to all of them. But the Model 19/66 is too heavy, too hard to conceal, and doesn’t have as many booms in it.

          • El Mac

            WTF does an EMP have to do with field stripping a pistol? Any pistol?! What a dumbass argument.

            And here we go…If you can’t clean a pistol every thousand rounds or so, you gotta lot of problems that have nothing in the world to do with a pistol.

          • For those of you from Rio Linda, I was talking in regards to the camaros and how the technology has changed to the point that they won’t work under certain conditions and scenarios whereas a gun will always work vis a vis conditions as such, whether striker fired or hammer fired, meaning that overall, the technology for guns hasn’t changed as much as for cars.

          • El Mac

            Jim, my EMP question was directed at “retfed”, not you.

          • retfed

            See if you can follow this:
            A group of soldiers can (in theory) field strip their weapons daily, because they don’t all do it at the same time, so the group is never unarmed and defenseless. An individual may not be in a safe position for a long time, and his weapon has to be operable during that time.
            I didn’t mention that in my post because it should be obvious.

          • El Mac

            Good grief. You are so full of comic book crap you can’t even answer the question. You are like a kid….Make crap up as you go.

          • retfed

            Guess you couldn’t follow it.
            Adios. I’m off on vacation.

          • El Mac

            Why would I follow a trail of rat turds? Enjoy!

          • A smith & wesson can have a decedent trigger. I owned a Model 15 with a trigger job and the gun shot unreal.

          • retfed

            The Model 15, and its six-inch brother, the Model 14, have the best triggers in any handgun, period. Especially in old guns that have been shot about a million times. My first issue gun, a Smith M&P (pre-Model 10; the gun was made before I was born) had a trigger like glass.
            You don’t really need a trigger job. When ATF issued its agents brand-new Model 66s around 1976, the agents were told to dry-fire the guns a hundred or so times a night. (Kinda like Rapunzel brushing her hair.) They weren’t kidding; I fired one. It was nice.

          • The guy I bought it from had the trigger job done. That revolver was so smooth. Like 18 year old Macallan. Maybe smoother.

          • John1943

            My wife and I own over a dozen handguns. The one I shoot best is the 1911 (we own 2). Following many years in denial, my wife has also come to the same conclusion. I would rather hit with a .45 than miss with anything else (not that the difference in accuracy is that great). I do not see the 1911 as less efficient or obsolete. The only drawback is the capacity, which is no big deal when the largest mag I can legally buy is ten rounds. Prior to the 1911, I mostly carried a Glock 22 ( .40 S&W), my wife a sub compact 9mm.

            Whatever does the job best for you. If that’s a Sig, I can understand that, but I do not see the point of experimenting when I am happy with my current setup. Nobody can convince me that the 9 has that much of an edge (if any) over the .45 ACP.

            If there was a good supply of ammo at reasonable prices, I might experiment with a 1911 chambered in .38 Super, but there isn’t.

          • gunsandrockets

            Hear hear! More 1911 love from me too. No other pistol seems to fit my hand as well.

            And don’t give up on the .38 Super. It is an almost ideal choice for magazine limited States such as yours, and mail-order is the solution to the ammunition supply problem. (and weirdly enough .38 Super was the last pistol caliber still in stock at my local Walmart during the last ammunition buying panic!)

            10 shot flush fit magazines for .38 Super are available, and IMHO the 1911 is better suited for the .38 Super than it is for .45 ACP. Better feeding with HP bullets, less recoil, and less frame battering. But even more punch than +P .45 ACP.

            https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=226

          • John1943

            Sadly, as from this month, California has prohibited mail order or internet purchase, and requires a $50 license (every two years) to buy ammo, which must be purchased in person at a local store. Bloody communists. Knowing this was coming, I have purchased a closet full of my main rounds this year and hope that by the time I need more, the appeal courts will have ruled this unconstitutional.

          • mbrd

            a license to buy ammo? $50 every other year? what the he!! is going on out there? i thought some of the northeast states were out of hand… and they are, but not like the prk.

            that aside, the only reason i won’t cc my 1911’s is because i have over $1k in each of them. in the unlikely event that i had to shoot in self defense, i would not want that much money tied up in an evidence locker, to possibly never be returned. a couple of my 1911’s are also irreplaceable limited offerings from over a decade and a half ago.

            $500 glock 17 or 19, no problem; the popcorn of handguns. i’d pick another up on the way home from the police station.

          • John1943

            Now that is a reason to leave the 1911’s at home, except that Colt are now making a 1911 in the $500 range. ? Except, for those of us in PRK, because it is new and it does not have microstamping. ?

          • frankspeak

            glock 30 with tritium sights works well…used to keep it under my pillow..till my ear started glowing in the dark!….

          • Chrome Dragon

            (PS: Radiation doesn’t actually work that way)

          • frankspeak

            …seem to recall a problem with radium dials on watches…cancer, and all…then there was Madame Curie…(cause of death?)

          • druid9

            @John1943- You CA folks actually have another year to go on the “banning” of internet/mail order sales; that law takes effect Jan 1, 2018. It also may be that CA will go on the NY model which allows internet sales but requires transfer through an FFL-licensed dealer.

          • John1943

            Thank you for the correction. Other legislation passed this year, particularly on so-called assault weapons, is already going into effect, so I thought it all was already in force. I cannot see the NY model being effective here, few of our local dealers will do interstate firearm purchases, or alternatively charge an outrageous fee. Why would they undercut their current high prices for bulk ammo?

          • gunsandrockets

            I am reasonably certain the new law kicks in July 1st, 2019. Yes, 2019.

            The current legal situation is confusing because of the overlap of SB 1235 which was signed into law by Governor Brown and the passage of Proposition 63, which was approved by the voters during the election.

            But my understanding is even though the so-called “Safety For All” proposition is technically now the law, the provisions regarding ammunition sales do not begin until July 1st, 2019.

            Of course God knows what new horrors will befall the poor gun owners of California by July 2019. That will be right at the end of the legislative term, with a brand new Governor in office. In all likelihood the same slimy guy behind Prop 63, Gavin Newsom.

          • John1943

            Thanks, G&R. Gavin definitely looks well placed to become Governor. He is either totally stupid, or thinks we are. Sadly, I think it is the latter and too many of us will indeed fall for his lies and tripe.

            At least we have gotten rid of Kamila, who is replacing Barbara Boxer. But I expect to see her prominent on the national stage before long, with more energy than I ever saw from Barbara.

          • frankspeak

            …and yet there are enough automatic weapons in hollywood to arm a third world country!…guess it’s just who you know….

          • gunsandrockets
          • frankspeak

            not sure NY is part of the US either…but at least it’s better than “joisey”!

          • New York is a complex state, like CA. It’s not monolithic. There are two sections of upstate, the catskills and the adirondacks and then there is the western part of the state, NYC and Long Island. All a bit different and talk different too. I was born, raised and lived on LI for 40 years before leaving. There are things I miss, but it’s not worth the cost of living and nanny state BS to live there.

          • frankspeak

            more concerned with transiting the state to get to places like New Hampshire…

          • I live in AZ now. No gun worries here. I lived in Iowa in between here and NY and Iowa was better than NY in regards to owning guns, but not as liberal as AZ. As it is, it’s always possible my wife’s job could take us elsewhere and the problem for me is that most if not all of the places would be a step back from AZ in terms of gun rights, although a few would be better socially, at least from my point of view.

          • frankspeak

            you really need to consider moving back to the United States….LOL!

          • John1943

            I hear you. But there are other advantages to living here, in a very Republican area of rural California. Maybe one say we can have a Trump revolution of our own.

            And, I am too old to be excited about moving to somewhere strange to me or where it gets too cold in Winter or too hot in summer. Here, at 4,000 feet, the temperature is usually 20 degrees cooler than the nearby desert in summer and snow usually melts within a few days in winter.

          • frankspeak

            yeah,..my cousin finally had it with the bay area….moved to Sparks..where,..fortunately, he was able to reestabllish his business

          • John1943

            BTW, I carry 8+1 in the 1911 and have 2 ten round mags in my belt pouches. Interesting comments on the .38 Super. Seems somewhat ignored except by some competitors.

          • retfed

            Allegedly, the ..38 Super was a very popular police caliber in the 20s, until it was eclipsed by the .357 Magnum after 1935. The Super was the best round to have when you needed to penetrate a car body. It was kind of the .357 Sig of its time.

          • John1943

            The first time I really remember thinking about .38 Super was when I read Steven Hunter’s Bob Lee Swagger series. My knee jerk reaction was to be unimpressed but as Hunter had chosen and promoted this caliber, I thought maybe there was something in it as his firearms stuff seems generally well researched.

            I have still not seen one, and need more firearms like a hold in my head, but I would certainly like to try one out and maybe assess it further. I do have room for 2 more handguns on my ccw’s “authorized” list.

            However, uncommon or unusual calibers are, as I said in another post here, going to be nearly impossible to get ammo for here in CA unless you have a very friendly local dealer. I would have to dig out my press and invest in brass, new dies and other equipment. Just cannot justify it in a small house on a retirement income.

            Thinks, does anyone make a .38 Spl barrel (and anything else needed) that would convert a .45 ACP 1911 to a .38 Spl? Or maybe convert a Glock 22?

          • gunsandrockets

            This is one of the cheaper and more easily available options for a .38 Super 1911 in California.

            https://www.turners.com/rock-island-armory/rock-island-armory-1911-gi-38–340

            I paid about $50 more for the version with a nickel finish about three years ago. I don’t like the factory grips as they are a bit oddly shaped and cheap looking (so I replaced them with Hogue grips). But otherwise it is a plain old fashioned 70 series style 1911.

            The RIA only comes with a single 9 shot factory magazine. Quality 10 round 1911 magazines for the .38 Super are expensive.

            So unless you really want to experiment with something new, you are probably better off sticking with your .45s. A .38 Super is at best a marginal improvement over a .45 ACP. (And I’m sure many would say it wouldn’t be an improvement at all!)

          • John1943

            Yes, I think it will have to wait until I win the lottery. I word have to regrip that as well, nasty cheap looking things. I like the slightly larger feel and shape that Pachmeyer grips give.

          • frankspeak

            best gun I ever encountered that actually became part of your hand was the P-38..with the hi-power a close second…use to refer to it as my “tin can gun”…because of its ability to walk a tin can rapidly up a hillside…another one that seldom gets considered..[except by the mob!]..is the ruger mkII…it has the rather startling capability of pumping out 11 rds..[10+1]…so quickly that it is virtually impossible to hear each round detonate!…which makes it a viable choice for self-defense…but, of course,..if you have to stake your life on a single round…it’s hard to beat the .45…as many veterans will attest….

          • I have a FEG Hi Power AKA R9. I like my commander better for ergonomics.

          • Ned Weatherby

            Yep – 1911 with an good ambi safety (like old Kings Gun Works – knockoffs of which are now pretty common) give a lefty the fastest and safest first round strike capability for me. ( That’s for me – so forget the Glock talk) I fired several gazillion rounds from a Suppressed Mac !0 and found that from low ready, with the Mac 10, I could still draw and strike the target with 2 rounds faster than I could hit it with the Mac. I still carry 45s for CCW, but they are Kahrs P-45s, and I don’t feel under-gunned. But then, I’m neither a LEO, nor do I go into places that might attract trouble. For that I would want a double stack nine. My Para Ordnance 45 is too darn heavy – although it goes bang every time.

          • retfed

            I never dissed the .45. There are plenty of good, modern .45s out there. They’re just not 1911s.
            “.45” and “1911” are not synonyms, but too many people here are acting like they are.

          • John1943

            Never thought they were. Sorry if you thought otherwise.

          • retfed

            I said above that the 1911 is perfectly adequate for personal defense in the United States. It’s just no longer the best choice for military combat.
            I’m going to ask you an honest question here: Have you ever handled your 1911 with gloves on? I carried a Combat Commander on the job in a Midwestern city for a while, and one of the reasons I dumped it was that I couldn’t be sure of knocking the thumb safety off with gloves on, and I was very leery of sticking my gloved finger into that teeny trigger guard. I decided the K-frame was a better winter gun.
            Any thoughts?

          • whamprod

            I hear what you’re saying, but sometime change happens. Like you, I carried and shot 1911’s for years, and I tended to shoot .45 ACP better than other calibers. I owned 9mm, .40 cal, .357, .38 Special, and .44 magnum handguns, and could shoot them OK, but I shot .45 best because that was my primary self-defense choice of caliber – “choice” being the operant word. But my wife, not so much.

            She liked her 9mm, shot it best, and didn’t want to try to adapt to or learn to shoot .45 well. At some point, in the interest of commonality of platform, parts, and caliber, I started carrying a Glock 19, which is what my wife carried. I thought it might be important for her to be able to shoot my gun well and be familiar with it if something happened to me, and I figured I could adapt to 9mm more easily than she could adapt to .45. (She’s not all that interested in firearms or shooting, but she does like to have and carry a pistol for self-defense – which is why it was easier for me to adapt to her carry choice than the other way around.)

            Anywho, I got myself my own Glock 9mm and have been carrying one for a while now. The end result is that I shoot 9mm at the range a lot more often than I do .45……..and guess what? I’m now better at shooting 9mm than .45, and I prefer to carry it over .45. So, the lesson for me was that if your mind is open to adaptation and change, then you can adapt to shoot anything well if you shoot it often enough. AND, as I’ve gotten older, and my hands more arthritic, I’m happier to be shooting 9mm than I would be with .45…..and not only happier because of the milder 9mm recoil, but also because of the slightly softer shooting of a polymer frame versus the steel or aluminum frame of a 1911. I still love my 1911s (one is a 1943 Ithaca that was my dad’s sidearm in WW2) as fun guns to shoot, but not so much for carry and self-defense.

            I’m not saying .45 isn’t a good caliber. It’s a GREAT caliber. But what I am saying is that, whatever one shoots the most will most likely be the caliber one shoots the best. So in that light, whatever caliber is best depends entirely on the person carrying it, and their personal needs.

            Today, I get my .45s out for range days maybe once or twice a year. I have 4 of them – two 1911s, and XDM and an XDS – but that’s about it. And with the advances made in bullet design and gunpowder formulations over the past couple of decades, I don’t feel any less well armed with a 9mm than I used to feel with a .45. As the old saw goes, I don’t see anyone volunteering to step in front of 9mm. And for what it is worth, during the 5 years that I worked in the ER of a major trauma center in the greater Los Angeles area, I saw FAR more people shot dead with .22 LR than with any other caliber.

            Anyway, all of that was to say that, as a human being, you’re a remarkable adaptable creature. It’s a human trait. But that adaptability is only a matter of desire, not ability. Anyone can change caliber and learn to like it, if they’re motivated for the right reasons.

            Still, a .38 Super might be fun……..

          • John1943

            Sounds as if we are fairly similar. My wife and I are both disabled, and she has weak and painful hands. She was convinced that she could never fire anything larger than 9mm so would not even try. She qualified for her ccw with a Ruger SP101 in ,327 Mag. but realized during the training that that wasn’t going to be particularly handy for training and carrying. So she decided she needed a small nine. We got her a Springfield XD-S. She loved it at first, but had problems with mag release and racking the slide. So, we got her an S&W M&P Shield, which she likes. (I now carry the XD-S when I need deep concealment, such as doctor’s visits where I might get examined).

            Recertification was coming around, and even operating the Shield was painful for her. In desperation, she tried my 1911, for the first time. She was amazed at the fact that she could rack that slide and operate the safety and magazine release more easily than the 9. Then, when she shot it, she was astounded. She shot groups half the size and hardly felt the recoil. The next day we went out and she chose a 4″ Kimber. She requalified with ease.

            She now carries the 1911 OWB in winter and her Shield IWB in summer. She simply cannot find a way to carry the 1911 in light clothing, and her purse already weighs a ton.

            Our handguns include .22, .32 – .327, .38, .380 ., 9mm, .40, .44Mag and .45..

          • Henry Servatt

            Of course “a piece of metal has a mystical quality”. You should look at the way my safe lights up the whole room it’s in when I open the door! When my 1922 ain’t in there, the whole room is just… dark! While I am very well armed (cuz the 1911 ain’t in the safe no mo’).

          • retfed

            Is your 1911 radioactive? Better wear your lead jockstrap when you carry it.
            As I said before, the 1911 is perfectly good for self-defense in the United States. For military combat, it’s obsolete.
            Carry your 1911 and enjoy it. But if I see it glowing through your coat, I’m heading the other way.

          • Henry Servatt

            Ha, ha, ha… If it ever DOES glow, I will be right behind you, brother. I just havta have a light spirit about my favorite weapon. But, of course it’s not a be-all, do-all super gun. Take care, boss, and do have a super new year.

          • mbrd

            lead flap holster

          • Henry Servatt

            good idea… ;- )

          • mbrd

            i read this aloud at the 1911 shrine in my living room, and the whole place started to shake, then a violent storm suddenly erupted throughout the house.

          • Jeffrey Szabo

            I hear ya. I kept looking up at the sky, thinking the Firearms gods were angry.

          • Bonzaipilot

            Or the life of others.
            Me, I love my 1911’s but Today I carry a Springfield SD 40S&W. I like the round and the weapon I just wish they would build it in a10mm. My favorite weapon for shooting is a P226 but it is just bigger than I want to carry full time though I have. I just like the .40 over the 9mm. Bigger can be better.
            Some of the new .45 rounds are very impressive especially out of my P220 which was what I carried when I retired the 1911 for the capacity. My favorite .45 is still the Star industries Megastar. Now there is a .45

          • frankspeak

            you had to be there!…it was a different time…back in the 60’s people didn’t spend their time worrying about “safe zones”…

          • Mikial

            My first wife was a redhead. That cured me of that!

          • Ned Weatherby

            So is mine. So I don’t really need a gun for self defense – I have a redhead.

          • John1943

            I must admit I am attracted by redheads. But the best cure for being attracted to any woman is to marry a few (preferably not all at the same time ?). They are wired to live in a different universe somehow.

          • Aaron

            Look up MGTOW and Red Pill philosophy, talk about a literal eye opener. I dated plenty in college, being an attractive redhead, coincidentally. Every woman I dated wanted to continuously “progress” the relationship, when I was perfectly happy with the way things were. I’m almost 37, and one decision I’ve never changed my mind on is getting married. I doubt it will ever happen, I value my freedom too much.

          • Zebra Dun

            A wise man.

          • Zebra Dun

            I once asked a redhead if freckles hurt, she punched me in the nose, Yup, I concluded freckles hurt.

        • Lyman Hall

          I clean my 10-5 weekly, whether she’s been fired or not. She likes the attention and hands on time…

        • bob

          Sadly,in military form, the 9mm FMJ, does NOT perform as well as $5 230 Ball FMJ.In the civilian world where hollow points are King, it is a different story. If you are still a 9mm FMJ fan, seek out an Iraqi Vet and ask his opinion of how effective the 9mm FMJ is.

          • retfed

            I think you misunderstood me.
            I’m not talking about caliber. I’m talking about platform. A 1911 is too complex and maintenance-intensive, compared to other .45s on the market today, to be realistically considered the best available tool for military combat. That’s why I specifically compared it to other .45 pistols (P220, Glock 21 and 30).
            I like the .45, and I said so. I agree that .45 ball is superior to 9mm ball. I don’t need to talk to any vets about it. (I threw in the Hi-Power because friends of mine, who carried them in SE Asia, swear by them.)

          • El Mac

            1911 too complicated and maintenance intensive? That is total total bullshit.

          • retfed

            But it is. It has twice as many parts as a Glock or an M&P, and a much higher breakdown rate. (Ask any police armorer.) And, of course, the manual of arms is more complex that that of a DA or striker-fired pistol.
            I’m not saying the 1911 is useless. I’m just saying it’s been overtaken by newer technology. Name another pistol in general use today that uses a separate barrel bushing or a swinging barrel link.
            If you want to carry one, be my guest. You can also drive a Maxwell and fly across the country in a Curtiss Jenny, but there are better choices.

          • El Mac

            And I still say bullshit. Pure dumbass bullshit. Sure it may have more parts, but so what? I’ve seen all guns break. All of them. A well done 1911 like the Springfield Professional is as rock solid as any pistol and I’ll stack it up against any “modern” pistol made. You are just repeating horseshit you’ve been led to believe. Keep your modern throwaway crap bro.

          • retfed

            You can “say bullshit,” but you haven’t shown any information backing up your statement.
            1911s break more often than more modern pistols. They require more lubrication. They’re heavier. The Army tried to dump them twice, once after each world war, but were prevented from doing so by budgetary constraints.
            If you want to carry a .45, a P220 is a better choice. If you need a single-action .45, try the P220 SAO.
            If you want to carry a 1911, that’s fine. They’re perfectly adequate for personal self-defense in the United States. But you should be realistic about it, and admit you’re putting nostalgia and emotion ahead of pure efficiency.
            If you’re a movie buff, check out a 1943 crime movie called Appointment With Danger. In the movie, someone asks Alan Ladd what love is, and he replies, “It’s what happens between a man and a .45 that won’t jam.”

          • El Mac

            I could care less what the bean counters and the limp dicks try to do with it through the years. In my “fed” time, I’ve been issued three at different postings plus I have my own that I bought and paid for. In my position, I must qualify with the Glock as I’m an instructor and have to be able to teach what the average bear is carrying as well. I had a Glock 19 fail on me in Asscrackistan. I was told I couldn’t have my 1911 over there because the unit I was embedded with didn’t have any .45. That turned out to be false. I would have gladly rather have had my 1911. You can bet it went with me to Iraq, no matter what the doofi beat counters wanted. They DO NOT break more often than a modern pistol. That’s just bullshit. You carry your junk and I’ll carry mine. If a pound extra hurts your wittle bitty arm or back, I recommend a bit more gym time. Or grow a sack.

          • retfed

            My, aren’t we angry today.
            When your being lied to by the government becomes my fault, I’ll own up to it.
            How did the Glock 19 “fail” you?
            That sucks, but the plural of “anecdote” is not “data.”
            (Seriously, I want to know what happened with the Glock.)

          • retfed

            What’s with this “grow a sack” crap? Do you throw insults at people who drive a different car than you do, or drink different booze?
            I have a sack (I just looked) and I happen to prefer a P220 if I want to carry a .45, which isn’t that often. (The P220 has the advantage of having almost identical grip dimensions to the 1911 that everyone uses as an excuse to carry one.)
            In addition to a sack, I also have eyes, and when I looked out the window this morning I didn’t see any Model T’s on the street or any Zeppelins in the air. So I decided not to strap on a Taft-era pistol.

          • El Mac

            I carried a SIG 228, 226 and 220 as well. But when the 1911 became available, the advantages were clear and I switched. The 220 is a decent grip, but not as good as a 1911. And it has a crap first round trigger. Not to mention an aluminum frame.

            My my….Such a Taftophobe. I suppose you refuse to carry a knife since it’s such an archaic tool.

            As for growing a sack, if you would grow up and act like you have one, you might find people won’t think you don’t.

          • retfed

            The 220 doesn’t have a crap first round trigger if you’re willing to learn new things.
            The knife is old, but it hasn’t been improved upon. Unlike the 1911.
            I guess “growing up” means “thinking exactly like you do” and “never embracing new technology.” Like a DA trigger.
            Stay frosty, my friend.

          • El Mac

            I’m well aware the DA trigger and can manage it well. But it’s like AIDS, it’s not something that I would willingly choose. When the DA was all that was allowed, one had to master it. But when one has a choice, it would be foolish upon foolhardy to limit oneself to a second rate system. But you rock on with your head up your tailpipe amigo. Enjoy the view.

          • frankspeak

            just remember the Army rarely changes something as inconsequential as a pistol…unless somebody, somewhere,.. gets greased!

          • frankspeak

            startin’ to sound like a Cowboys fan!…..LOL!

          • El Mac

            Not sure what that meant….but ok. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • frankspeak

            actually heard of a football coach who once bit “the sack” of a bull just to inspire his team!…

          • retfed

            Re your remark about “if a pound extra hurts your . . . arm or back . . .”, the reason for the 1953 trials to dump the 1911 for a DA 9mm was weight. The Army discovered that a 1911 carried in a standard military shoulder holster weighed 80 ounces (that’s 5 pounds), and was causing nerve damage in tankers and aircrewmen who wore the rig for 12 or 14 hours at a time. I knew a few WWII-era tankers and aircrewmen, and I wouldn’t call them wimps.
            And the P220 weighs half a pound less than the 1911, which means it recoils more. So if “recoil management” is your measure of manliness . . .

          • El Mac

            Keep yapping. You might even eventually convince yourself.

          • retfed

            I’m done here.I see you’re too busy being macho to respond to anything in a civilized manner.
            Have a nice day. Happy New Year, and Vaya con Dios.
            And you still haven’t told me how the Glock failed you. Now I guess I’ll never know.

          • El Mac

            Good. I’m tired of hearing your spewage anyway.

          • frankspeak

            then there’s the “if I have to..I can beat someone over the head with it” factor…[and with 8 rds you may have to!]….

          • frankspeak

            still remember that scene in “Saving Private Ryan”..where the sarge and a German exchange pistol shots…and neither one goes down!…wonder how accurate that was….

          • frankspeak

            lacks the “cache” though…which is big and accounts for the higher prices..

          • frankspeak

            Hi-Power..[with extended mags]..approaches the effectiveness of an automatic weapon….

          • Aaron

            Iraq, 2004. Carried an M9, same as the rest of my unit. I was a medic, carried my M4 as well, but no one ever got up the couple times I used my M9 and said it was too weak. Saw it used by squadmates a few times as well. None of them got up, either.

            Any caliber is too weak, between 9mm, 45, ect. If you use a pistol, plan on shooting multiple times. Any pistol. All the extra training I paid for after I got home leads me to practice 3-5 rounds center mass and head. Doesn’t matter which handgun, I’m going to use them the exact same way.

          • gunsandrockets

            Bingo!

          • Zebra Dun

            Hence the term “mag dump till they whistle tactics” or shoot em to doll rags.

        • Voice_of_Reason

          I bet you could defend your home with a “Colt Navy” from 99% of criminals if you had to.

          Rule number 1: first, have a gun…

          • retfed

            You probably could. And if you couldn’t, you could escape behind the smokescreen.

          • frankspeak

            guy actually tried that once…unfortunately, the guys breaking in were ATF agents…remember Ken Ballew?….

          • Voice_of_Reason

            that’s not a clear-cut case, there seems to be fishy behavior by both the agents and Ballew.

        • Zebra Dun

          Too bad that M-10 wasn’t made in .45 acp.
          I do have a M-25-5 though and it’s almost as good!

      • nighthawk9983

        Rosco S Benson is a clown if he thinks 1911 politics was about honesty and integrity and not the same old BS cronyism and back scratching, Additionally the American military back then was not about providing the newest and best, it was about providing whatever was available. US Army was using trapdoors when repeaters were the standard for every other military; even the Sioux had superior firepower. US forces were equipped with these black powder trapdoors in the Spanish American war, going up against Spanish Mausers, superior in every possible aspect for a gun. No, the troops were not the best tool for the job, in fact that mentality did not exist in WWI era at all with chauchats going to Doughboys. If you buy into this bull, ofc you think a 1911 is the best gun ever. You go ahead and pretend what you want, facts will still be against you. The 45 is a great caliber, the 1911 on the other hand, is OK

        • Voice_of_Reason

          The 1911 went through the most intensive reliability test ever conducted to date. And it is still around, unlike any other weapon from that era except Browning’s other masterpiece, the M2 .50 cal MG.

          It’s safe to say that the troops got the absolute best technology available at the time (100 years ago) with both the 1911 and M2. Your screed about trapdoors applies to….trapdoors, not 1911s or M2s.

      • billyoblivion

        More like Roscoe P. Coltrane.

    • BraveNewWhirled

      Love this argument. It’s sorta like saying “Girl (X) is the hottest thing in the galaxy”, or actually believing Bo Derek is or ever was a “10”. Then there’s the Brooke Shields Effect, wherein the girl who once jangled every man with a heartbeat, now looks not unlike Tim Curry as Frank-n-Furter but without quite as much makeup.

      My Kimber CDP would be the very last gun I relinquished.

    • Glenn_Blech

      Epic post, Mmmtacos. Perfect.

  • A.WChuck

    9mm is still my favorite, but the .45 Winchester Ranger T-series expands up to 1 inch(!) in gel tests done by Lucky Gunner. That might be enough to turn your near miss into a sure hit on a vital.

  • Wolfgar

    I would rather send the bigger 45 pills down range if I lived in a state with a normal capacity magazine restriction but other wise 9mm all the way .

  • m-dasher

    .380, 9mm, 40, 45, .357……….i dont see anyone volunteering to take one to the chest.

    if you miss vitals with a 9mm, you are gonna miss with a .45

    and if you cant shoot .45 as fast as you can shoot 9mm or .380, you need to work on your grips strength and hit the range with a few thousand rounds…….because i really dont notice any perceivable change in recoil from any of the standard (non magnum) SD calibers in the same weight gun.

    anyone claiming .xx is better than .yy for SD is a moron in my opinion.

    practicing with a caliber you like is a lot more productive than choosing “the best” SD caliber

    • frankspeak

      when you get to a certain age…practicing doesn’t help much…used to be a consistent upper 290’s shooter (on the PPC)….not anymore…now I use an enforcer .30 cal pistol with clipped together 30 rd mags…not very accurate..but it’s a bear in a hallway!

  • ozzallos .

    Ye ole modern technology trope. Capacity, I’m down with as an argument, but 45acp was apprentice exempted from modern technology.

    • iksnilol

      Well, modern advancements are usually based on high pressure and velocity. Both tihngs which .45 acp lacks (you could load .45 acp with black powder and not get much velocity loss).

  • RickH

    “occasionally has truly resonating moments with one personally”. Maybe change “occasionally” to “rarely”.

  • iksnilol

    Doubt it, subsonic 9mm is widespread and cheaper.

    Besides, nobody makes an integrally suppressed handgun that isn’t a .22 worth a damn.

    • Anonymoose

      9mm is the most widespread caliber, but 147s can be hard to find and pricy when you do find them, and special subsonic 124 watered down loads suck.

      • iksnilol

        I’ve had no issue finding 147’s and 158’s.

        But y’know, these killaz go for the best triggaz with they gats for when we ride on our enemies assassinatin’ like 47 does.

        • Anonymoose

          It’s easier now that we have the internet, but not if you’re just shopping at an LGS, Walmart, or sporting good store.

          • iksnilol

            Meh, online offers in Norway aren’t too good. I usually check out the goods in store. As I said, if they sell 115/124 grains, they usually also sell 147/148/158 grains as well.

            + that way you avoid shipping (kinda pointless to buy 1000 rounds at a time to get 20 percent cheaper per shot if the shipping eats up the savings).

          • somedingus

            Maybe not in Norway, but here in the states I can order 250-1000 rounds from Nevada at anywhere from $0.25-0.10 less per round and have them shipped to me in my state and still save money because we currently don’t have to pay any tax at all on internet purchases made out of state.

          • iksnilol

            Well, then I done reckon you hate your state cause you are supportin’ them Nevada commies.

            In all seriousness, that sounds like a decent deal, but still, shipping for a case of ammo isn’t cheap simply due to weight.

          • mbrd

            yeah, shipped by weight is definitely a drag, but there are a few places that ship free at some quantity point; usually whatever is considered a “case”. some places will ship for free over a certain order total, though that is more rare in my experience.

            of course that is in the states, none of these places are going to ship free to norway, and i doubt they legally could ship there at all.

          • Marcus D.

            And when you buy that much, some sellers will throw in free shipping.

      • Marcus D.

        But 124 gr rock. 147s are too slow for me, the velocity of the 124 assures better penetration and expansion. Lehigh 124 coppers are not listed as +P but sure shoot like it.

        • Anonymoose

          124 is the NATO standard. 115 was designed for fast, light SMG loads and low-recoil. 147 and 158 (derived from .38 Special bullets) were designed for subsonic use. You can get supersonic 147s, but they can be finicky. Any subsonic 124gr load is going to suck.

          • nighthawk9983

            115 grain is practice ammo. 9mm NATO was designed for submachine guns

      • David S

        True at your local store, but under his hypothetical scenario supply would increase. And you can order it through the internet.

  • imtoomuch

    TYM would claim, for example, that Magpul AR magazines suck if he thought the stance would generate views on the video. He loves talking crap on popular stuff.

  • Jim Drickamer

    Interesting video. But I think the point is that you should not expect one caliber to be the best in every self-defense situation. What caliber/handgun combination do you shoot best and safest? What kinds of threats are you facing? What is available to you? What can you afford? Will you be the only one using the weapon or might a woman or child be called on to use it in an emergency? My answers might be different from yours. Therefore, my choice is going to be different from yours. What really matters is your survival. If you survived the encounter, you made the right choice.

  • Pedenzo

    1. I like .45Acp
    2. I can’t envision myself shooting through a windshield….for any reason
    3. I reload
    4. I carry a 22oz 10+1 capacity autoloader, and I shoot it well
    5. I like .45Acp

    I’m not justifying anything…..I just like .45Acp…..

    • A 45 goes through windshields just fine.

      • Pedenzo

        Yup….still doesn’t change the fact that I can’t see shooting through a windshield for any reason….and I didn’t make that claim….the goofball in the video did….

        • frankspeak

          consider the possibility you may have to shoot from the INSIDE….

          • Pedenzo

            Hmmmm….ok, I’ll give you that one, hadn’t thought about that….have now…

      • iksnilol

        Not really. Soft lead going slowly against angled and laminated glass goes badly.

        • Look up tests on YouTube. The 45 goes through windshields just fine. That is if you need to do that. Most of us never will.

          • iksnilol

            Excuse me for wanting to cover all bases. Y’know, some of us are professional assassins here.

          • frankspeak

            “Leave the gun….Bring the cannoli”!……

    • Steven Parker

      So do I.

  • Bierstadt54

    The .45 is a fine cartridge, and my favorite. It is as good as it has ever been. Fortunately or unfortunately, ammunition developments have enhanced smaller, faster cartridges more than the good old .45, and I have no problems with admitting that. The .460 Rowland conversion is still my top choice for self defense against four-footed threats, though. Not a revolver guy…

  • VictorVector

    But for those in non-free states, where they can’t carry or possess a standard capacity magazine, why not upgrade to a more lethal round?

    • Anonymoose

      This is why I always question why people in NY, Joisey, Cali, Maryland, Mass, CT, etc don’t have Glock 30s. It’s like the perfect size and the pinky mags hold 10 rounds.

      • John Yossarian

        And I’d put a 45 Super barrel in it. Shoot 45 ACP for practice and Underwood 120 Grain Xtreme Defender for carry. I’m not sure what length barrel they’d used, but Underwood quotes 1600 fps!

        • Anonymoose

          .45 Super and .45ACP use the same barrel, usually, but you will need a new, stiffer recoil spring. .460 is where you have to change barrels because the case is longer. Also, Underwood probably tested it from a 5″ 1911.

        • There are plenty choices of 45 Super ammo that rock. Buffalo Bore makes some, so do others. I think Underwood and Lehigh defense do too. It’ll get velocities with 230gr that 45 +p gets with 185. That won’t bounce off windshields.

        • gunsandrockets

          The ultimate conversion for Joisey?

      • David S

        The magazine capacity limit goes along with not being able to carry concealed unless you are well connected. A 5″ barrel and a full length grip are much better if you don’t have to worry about concealing the thing.

      • frankspeak

        pinky mags are for show….drive to PA and pick up some glock 21 mags…then stash ’em!….Cali?…Arizona or Nevada should work…….criminals aren’t obeying they’re silly rules…why should you?

    • Marcus D.

      This is the comment I was going to make. These states are 10+1 (although NY is theoretically 7+1 even with a 10 round mag). My McCormick mag for my 1911 is 8 rounds, for 8+1 capacity, only two shy of the state limit. So why not?
      That said, for comfort and concealability, I carry a 9 mm Kahr with 7+1 capacity, loaded with premium HPs. In the extremely unlikely event that I will ever need to use it, I won’t feel undergunned.

    • David S

      Good argument for the 357 Sig.

    • frankspeak

      carrying is one thing….but possessing???…how they gonna’ know?…time to get sneaky!….

  • Sense Offender

    The 45 will never get over its short coming as a reduced capacity firearm and probably better serves for shooting from suppressed handguns then in US Military. If you want big and powerful its the 10mm all the way for simiauto’s as it can be more powerful then any 45 and can double the round count to boot.

  • Will

    I heard absolutely no argument, pro or con, about projectile placement.
    THAT is what ends the fight. PROJECTILE PLACEMENT!!
    A well placed 40 grain 22LR will drop a man faster than a 230 grain 45ACP projectile into a bunch of fat. BUT! If you properly place a 230 grain bullet into a vital location……it WILL do the job. If you have to shoot someone be sure to use the heaviest, fastest, highest expanding round you can safely handle.
    JUST MY OPINION which is as valid as Yankee Marshalls opinion.
    Opinions are like butt holes. Everybody has one.

  • Christopher Wallace

    for those of you who have watched some of his vids, i think he is legitimately mentally ill. thoughts?

  • Bruce Beckwith

    .45ACP is like a 9MM or .40S&W, but for adults.

  • Toxie

    So then an article yesterday saying that there’s “no science” showing that JHP’s are more effective, and today Mr. Hyde makes an appearance…
    Mixed signals I tell ya! (Although I agree with Nathan and not Miles!)

  • Frank Martin

    I prefer to shoot 45 ACP.

    I have 9mm pistols.. I have 45 ACP pistols.. I practice with both. But I noticed there are quite a few people who want to convince anyone using a 45 ACP that they should not use it.. and tell you that 9mm or .40 Smith and Wesson are best…

    heck.. I kind of look down on people who prefer to carry a .380 ACP… but I will state this.. I don’t care if you carry a 22 LR Pistol.. or up to a 45 ACP.. Practice, and remember.. having a firearm to protect yourself is the key.. its better than having no gun at all.

    The “best round for” is a myth…

  • Sam

    Another new technology makes the other cartridges better than the .45 ACP because new technology must only get applied to subcaliber bullets. If you need 19 rounds of 9 MM to hit something you suck not the cartridge.

    • CommonSense23

      It’s more new technology doesn’t effect everything equally. That’s what the 45 fan boys don’t seem to appreciate. And you should Google Tom Gramins.

      • Sam

        Good read, poor writing. Except for blowing away the one stop shot myth with described organ shots and one medical opinion saying 16 seconds after the heart stops this article shows the results of stress shooting and the effects on accuracy. As far as 147 rounds of 9mm that is stress nothing in it said that 9 is better than .45 only lighter.

    • Sam

      Saw the video. Good humor, you could pick any of the handful of rounds he mentions and do the same comparison against the others and say the same thing. I’ll keep my 10 rounds of 185 grains at 1011 fps.

  • Trey

    The single worst thing about .45acp vs 9×19 is cost, for practice.
    As far as effect on target ALL pistol rounds are various levels of meh.. at least compared to most rifle rounds.
    All that being said, the largest positive effect of a self defense weapon is that MOST attackers FLEE when faced with one.

  • Twilight sparkle

    Nothing wrong with 45 in certain fields, but all of my carry guns are either 9mm or 380. The only thing I really like 45 in is as a designated round for suppressing.

  • Twilight sparkle

    Nothing wrong with 45 in certain fields, but all of my carry guns are either 9mm or 380. The only thing I really like 45 in is as a designated round for suppressing.

  • Can’t stand Yankee Marshall. I was interested in the opinion until it was clear it was YM’s.
    Pass. If I want to listen to Shock Jock, there’s Howard Stern… everything else is Click Bait with that guy.

  • Can’t stand Yankee Marshall. I was interested in the opinion until it was clear it was YM’s.
    Pass. If I want to listen to Shock Jock, there’s Howard Stern… everything else is Click Bait with that guy.

  • tiger

    The .45 acp is like a Hemi v8. Best engine all the time? No. Most eco friendly or best power? No. Still sells? Yes.

  • Yankee Marshal

    Comparing me to Donald Trump? I am not sure whether to be flattered or offended. Either way, I am now looking into building a wall around the writer’s house (and making him pay for it of course).

    • Five

      LOL! That’s what any good contractor would do!

    • Edeco

      Real YM? If so, more Gary, less about your sometimes-eccentric concealed carry habits. Might as well be batin’ on camera with that stuff.

  • me ohmy

    I love my 45ACP 1911’s one being a WW1 COLT 1911, and SIG P-220 GEN 1…
    but sh*t comes down…I’m grabbing my CZ-75 and three 15 rounders, one mag up and ready. that’s 60 rounds of asswhipping, all in a quick to fire and reload combo.

    • Bob

      Likewise for the FNX-45. 15 + 1. what’s not to like?

  • RyanC

    I live in MA – The most rounds any gun can have in it is 10 rounds. (Excluding pre-ban magazines)

    My home defense gun is a SIG P227 – which conveniently holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP.

    I get zero benefit to owning or shooting a gun that could hold 17 rounds or 19 rounds in any other state. To me, that’s just a lot of empty space in my grips where bullets aren’t allowed to be.

    So in this state, and any other state where magazines are limited to 10 rounds, .45 ACP is typically the BEST bullet. Anyone limited by 10 rounds should be thinking “What’s the most reliable gun I can buy, in .45, that carries 10 rounds without requiring some BS low-capacity magazine?”

    M&P 45: 10 rounds. PERFECT!
    Beretta PX4 .45: 10 rounds. PERFECT!
    SIG P227: 10 rounds. PERFECT
    Ruger American: 10 rounds. PEREFECT!
    H&K 45c: 10 rounds. PERFECT!
    H&K USP Compact: 10 rounds. PERFECT!

    I also carry the Shield in .45; It holds 7+1. The Shield in 9mm holds 8+1. I’ll take a gun with 1 less bullet, if the bullets I’m going to get are .45s. I don’t want to worry about expansion in a 3″ barrel, subcompact.

    • David S

      357 Sig.

  • It’s always amusing the way “shot placement matters more than caliber” seems to go out tyhe window when someone has an axe to grind.

    I’ve never found .45 recoil to be all that big a deal even in small concealable pistols, and if the goal of a hollowpoint design is to make a bullet wider so it cuts more meat then it stands to reason a bullet that starts off wider and stays that way– even in marginal situations like long range or barriers or materials plugging the hollow–has an edge right out of the barrel.

    Whatever, though– shoot what you can score hits with and use a proven defensive design, you’ll be about as effective as everyone else who hits what they’re aiming at.
    ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

    • iksnilol

      eh, moot point, hollow point expanded is sharp. Regular bullet is rounded and dull.

  • Sasquatch

    It is the best since they don’t make a .46

    • brian

      Yes they do…in a revolver with a 9 inch barrel…but it won’t hold 10+ lol

      • Sasquatch

        I know it was sarcasm.

      • Edeco

        Also there was a 46 Remington. Not currently made though.

  • Don Ward

    The Yankee Marshall AND an article about how the .45 ACP sucks and here I am late to the party.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9a7eaa4b0ba5ac81b6f3ef45d63ca46e8c56e741da89efe9fae1aec01ea3bc05.jpg

  • Michael O’Steen

    Capacity? I guess we will have to see how well the new M&P Shield 45 sells. I’m betting really well.

  • Mufasa

    Modern metallurgy and design is brought up, but when 100+ year old designs are still keeping pace with all our current technology, it kinda makes you wonder if the engineers of today are lazy or just bad at their jobs.

  • Tom Currie

    A few comments comments:
    1) If you are limited to FMJ or RNL for whatever reason, then there is no question – bigger is better.

    2) As a direct result of #1, for the military, a 15 round magazine of 9mm is essentially the same as a 7 round magazine of .45ACP. 7+1=8 enemy engaged; 15+1=16 but 16/2=8 enemy engaged with the necessary double tap.

    3) With the best “defensive” ammunition, there is little difference among 9×17, 9×18, 9×19, .38SPC, .357Mag, .357Sig, .40S&W, 10mm, .45ACP, etc., etc. If you want to play 9×19 fanboy most of you arguments apply equally to all the other common “defensive” calibers. If you want to demand that a defensive caliber “must start with a four” sorry but you will be carrying fewer rounds in the same size package.

    4) On the other hand, the old time single action guys who pointed out that “if you can’t get the job done with 5…” had a point. Current “standard capacity” magazines in any caliber contain plenty of ammo for any realistic and survivable civilian defensive encounter. Forget your “El Presidente” fantasies. If you are up against three or more armed bad guys you are in more trouble than any number of rounds is going to handle.

    Bottom line: With decent ammo any common “defensive” caliber will do the job if you do your part; so quit quibbling about the caliber and just pick a gun that you can carry effectively and shoot effectively.

    • Ron

      Flesh is highly elastic, small changes in diameter have little to no effect on size the wound.

      Here is what was written in Army’s study “WOUND BALLISTICS” published in 1962 that covers wounds from WWII, Korea and parts of Vietnam

      Chap 2

      Ballistic
      Characteristics of Wounding Agents

      Maj. Ralph W. French, MAC, USA
      (Ret.), and Brig. Gen. George R. Callender, USA (Ret.)

      “From an analysis of these facts and the requirements for penetration of skin and bone, it can be readily appreciated that the .45 caliber bullet is of little value as a wound-producing agent except in the softer tissues and at near ranges. The bullet often fails either to penetrate or to fracture bone and practically never shatters bone in the manner common to the rifle bullet or fragment. The Japanese and German sidearms with muzzle velocities of approximately 1,100 f.p.s. were much more effective as antipersonnel weapons than the .45 caliber weapon.”

      • Bucho4Prez

        Look at you, bringing data into a debate! This area is for EMOTION only!

    • Bob

      my 45 auto holds 14 + 1. so tell me again what am I giving up?
      stoked with speer gold dots and/or remington golden sabres that are 230 grain JHP’s

  • Charles Applegate

    Hmm… I don’t know much about The Yanke Marshall, but unless you’re calling a pathological liar who lives to tickle billionaires’ balls, I doubt that I’d dislike him for the SAME reasons that I dislike Mr. Trump…

  • Blake

    There’s one very interesting factor of 45 ACP that’s often overlooked:

    standard loads are subsonic, so it’s a great suppressor candidate.

    Look no further that the DeLisle carbine for evidence…

  • Paul Zimmerli

    Stepping back to the start of this discourse, you say the female orgasm is a myth… You’re doing it wrong, brother….

    • frankspeak

      gotta’ get her in the right frame of mind….then sometimes you can bring in a real “gusher”!…

  • David Fisher

    Very well said my man. You made some good points.

  • TW

    But the .45 is still better for the military, who are not allowed to use hollow point, only FMJ ammo. In that case the 9mm has less energy on target than a 45 would. In any other use the difference from 9, 40, and 45 is to little to justify the extra size.

    • MichaelZWilliamson

      The 9mm has comparable power to the ORIGINAL .45 loading. But the .45 has improved more in options.

  • WPZ

    Yankee Marshall can be entertaining- once upon a time, he was pretty much, most of the time. Nowadays, he mostly makes a lot of money creating agitation.
    I’ve watched quite a few of his videos. He says he carries a revolver; for a time, a Chiappa. Then he mocks .45 caliber semis, presumably 1911s, for their lack of capacity. That’s a disconnect.
    Here’s another tipoff- a guy with a lisp mocks people he disagrees with by imitating Southern dialects with some slurring added. Good grief.
    Meanwhile, back on the caliber war front, he appears to like the .357 Sig, which in the abstract is fine, but using one in a confined space is difficult- loud, boomy, flashy. The low pressure aspect of the .45 ACP is an advantage, in a fight in a close space.
    Years ago I ran a darkhouse with .357 Gold Dots in a 2″ Magnum Carry. Then and there I knew I’d never use a short .357 for close or interior defense. Disorientation is a major disadvantage.
    That comes from a guy with a lot of .357s in the safe. But not on the belt.
    When the caliber wars break out, I wonder why we’re not discussing the .32 ACP, which also has advantages, including capacity. Or even the .25 ACP, which has significant advantages. Once one digs in with the “all calibers are equally effective” argument, it can get to be pretty muddy footing.
    Then, there’s the presumption that the 9×19 improved several-fold with technology but the .45 ACP didn’t. You need to break stuff in personal protection. How bigger (twice the original frontal area) and heavier (twice the mass) is not better is hard to see.
    Yeah, yeah, shooting through 1927 Ford A doors, a .45 isn’t the best. But bad guys drive Voyagers now, with metal a third the thickness, so shooting through car bodies is less of a factor.
    Yet when we go afield to hunt game, we do accept that certain calibers are better due to greater size and weight projectiles. Yes, the .218 Bee can take mule deer, but a .308 is a more reliable choice.
    Finally, to capacity- yeah, you can shoot a guy twice as many times… IF you have the time. Expecting to equal a double-aught buck load with your .32 by shooting nine times real fast is conceptually a good idea. But not a practical one. Nine hits while you’re fleeing for your life?
    Most of the longer-term guys I’ve worked with who’ve been in gunfights with handguns lean strongly towards the .45 and can tell you why.
    Tell me again about that .218…

    • iksnilol

      how is .45 vs .38 twice as large frontal area?

      That, and you conveniently ignore velocity. A brick is mighty lethal, but useless without velocity.

      • WPZ

        You’re right, it’s only a 61% increase- 2/3 greater frontal area prior to expansion.
        Velocity? The 230 HSTs depart my old 4 1/4″ gun at 840fps. They leave my newer 5″ GM at very close to 900fps.
        The last DPX 185s I chronoed, which was a long time ago, went about 1040.
        The HST 125s we have go about 1050-1100fps depending on the gun. The little bullets are faster, but not in a way that makes a notable difference. From 1040 to 1100 is negligible.
        Velocity starts to matter in the mid-1300fps range according to most sources, including and especially hunters who shoot lots of living things. Neither the 9 nor the .45 are working on velocity-based damage to any major degree.
        That 1350fps floor is where the success of the .357 Magnum and .357 Sig is usually credited.

        • The 10mm and 38 super come close to that club, probably in it depending on the ammo.

          • WPZ

            Heh- my .45 Commander’s occasional stand-in is a nearly-identical .38 Super from 1951. A perfect runner, and after all, it holds two more rounds. Yet the highest velocity I’ve recorded from carry ammunition (all 125gr) is barely 1300fps. Maybe the new Sig V-Crown will do it; I’ll try when it gets warmer.
            I do have to wonder that a newer Bar-Sto barrel wouldn’t improve the DPX’s performance. But I hate to mess with a gun that goes 5000+ rounds between stoppages.

        • iksnilol

          My math must be outdated but how is 0.45 61% larger than 0.38? By my math the .38 is 15.56% smaller than the .45.

          • WPZ

            No, your math’s not outdated… you’re asking the wrong question: frontal area is described as the area of the circle (disc) not diameter as you’re comparing. The area of a circle 0.355″ in diameter is 0.09898″. The .451 is 0.15978″

          • iksnilol

            Well, that’d be relevant if we were folding the bullet out flat.

            Bullet reverse origami sounds complicated.

    • frankspeak

      once saw a guy shot in the back with a .25 ACP…after which the guy turned around and beat the crap out of the shooter!…once he was down we took off the guys shirt and removed the round from his shoulder blade with a penknife…slapped on a band aid..and sent him on his way…just sayin’…

  • mazkact

    ENOUGH………………..Everyone face Utah and give me ten Hail Brownings.

    • MichaelZWilliamson

      There Is No God But Samuel Colt and John Browning Is His Prophet.

  • The Reclusive Boogur T. Wang

    This TYM, I’ve never heard of him and probably will never hear from him again, is certainly entitled to state his opinion.
    Here, I think it is for SStirring reasons. His 15 minutes ans not much more.
    I like the 45acp. Carried it for years. Also carried a High Power in 9mm. Also a 44 spec.
    Why? – because they worked in the environment and use where they were carried.
    Circumstances dictate choice. Hell, An Aunt of mine thwarted 2 robberies with a 32-20.
    Best weapon? Nope, but for her it worked. So WTF?

    Oh well, his 15 minutes are up.

    • brian

      I don’t like him all that much at all…but he has been around a lot longer than 15 minutes and they are far from “up”…you should know your subject matter before speaking…it helps with credibility typically.

      • MichaelZWilliamson

        Michael Moore is very popular in some circles, too. I don’t care for his opinions on anything, though.

        Just because someone has a following does not make them either credible or worthy.

        No, I don’t consider this guy as bad as MM. Just a reductio ad absurdum.

  • JoeGreen28

    Most underrated cartridge out there is the 22 maggie. 30 in my PMR Kel-Tec and I’m good to go.

  • diana pierce

    Most underated is the .243. should have been in the AR long long ago.

    • tinacn

      How about the 6mm Lee Navy or the 276 Pederson?

      • diana pierce

        Well, it (.243) may be in NATO inventory but I don’t think so…yet is probably should be. When it comes to stuff like this (my own take..pardon) is : all ammo (for these needs) should be a NATO caliber. After all, in shtf situation… of long duration demands…those will be the only calibers in production/available etc. Of course many diverse, non-NATO rounds may be superior but they will all disappear rather fast unless one has allot on hand.

        • tinacn

          No argument from the “apocalypse perspective”. My comment was intended as an “historical perspective” jab at the often arbitrary decisions the military makes concerning small arms cartridge choices. The 6mm Lee (Navy) and the 276 Perderson were both ahead of their time, were excellent fits for militray use, but were “derailed” due to the prejudices of the (usually) one Senior Officer tasked with making the recommendation of cartridge choice at the time. The 243 Winchester is a 6mm bullet on a necked-down 308 Win casing. The 22-250 was developed from the 250 Savage (250-3000) and is not much smaller case-dimensionally than a 308 Win. Bt this was a discussion of self-defense handgun cartrdges. See my other comment.

      • MichaelZWilliamson

        Real men use full power cartridges like the .45-70

        • tinacn

          Had a Ruger #3 in 45-70 once. FIred 6 rounds in through it, got a headache, and decided I didn’t want it any longer. A bit much for deer/boar/bear in the East anyway. As for the 45-70 as a defensive handgun round…well…there IS the Century Arms 45-70 Single Action Revolver at 6 pounds and about twice the size of a Ruger Super Blackhawk. I hope you are a LARGE human being…

          • MichaelZWilliamson

            I am, but I was being sarcastic about the “full power” .30 cal bleat.

    • iksnilol

      I like .204 Ruger.

      • diana pierce

        concern about barrel burnout at those speeds… hovering at 4K… hot ! nice round for tactical ops but don’t think it will suffice for hard running grunts ….without a wagon train of replacement barrels. Of course I can be wrong. also, the matter of age.. the .243 is long living and easily reproduced in huge quantities, a straight shooter.. flat etc… and importantly .. it is still on the smallish side = bulk carry demand is very good. Should be in NATO inventory… should it not? or is it?

        • iksnilol

          Oh come on! At first y’all are “smaller bullet with higher velocity is better”, and thne when offered something with even smaller bullet with even more velocity y’all are: “That much velocity is harmful for my barrels”.

          I shake my fist at thy tomfoolery.

          • diana pierce

            pray tell… just what do you think happens to barrels when using hyper velocity bullets? Consider using such in full auto…by grunts who have not the luxury of time to replace overheated-warped barrels… let alone burn out.

          • iksnilol

            I doubt it’ll cause significant warping, it’s only 20 cal.

  • dltaylor51

    The 45acp is one of the best self defense rounds there is,its perfect for up close work and it wont shoot through the neighbors house like a 357mag will.I have 14 different concealed carry hand guns ranging from 22lr to 44mag and every caliber in between and if I know I’m going someplace that could get rough I always take my 1911 45acp.No caliber sucks if that’s what you are carrying and a hand guns job is to buy you enough time to get to your rifle.

  • Paul Franklin

    I train and carry with a Glock 30 I’m much more proficient with this weapon than any other weapon in my arsenal. I also shoot GSSF matches with a compensated G41 man I love my .45s

  • Jim B

    It appears someone has overlooked the advancements of modern hollow points and when a 230 gr HP retains 99% of its weight it is one hell of a formidable self defense tool

  • pismopal

    I like that new ” weaving” stance.

    • tinacn

      New? You are a hoot, and I really admire your subtle digg at several “myths” in such a short comment.

  • GetFactsBeforeFormingOpinions

    For all those people talking about recoil on a .45 – have you ever shot a .40 S&W? They are almost painful to shoot with the snappy recoil. Shoot a good quality .45, then shoot a .40, and tell me which one is easier to shoot. I cringe when a new shooter-student brings a .40 to class. I’m going to spend the next hour working on flinch. (I’m not against .40, so don’t flame me Glock people)

  • Michael Fallon

    The .45acp has long been an excellent defensive round. It just took some time for engineers to figure out how to make smaller calibers as, or more effective than the .45acp. I personally in all practicality, believe works best for me are two cartridges. The .357 Sig in semiauto, and the .357 magnum revolver. Both using hollowpoints in the 124 or 125 grain configuration. I still have plenty of confidence in carrying my 1911 in 45acp, when I want to. It may be many things, but “Sucks” is definitely not one of them.

    • iksnilol

      I call bull on that. If that was true, then police in Europe and Asia wouldn’t be perfectly satisfied with 30 and 38 caliber handguns for so long.

      • Michael Fallon

        Use some critical thinking will You? The .45acp is a uniquely AMERICAN cartridge. Always has been. Yes a few countries use it, but Europe and Asia developed their own sidearm cartridges. Europe, almost all 9mm.

        • iksnilol

          Doesn’t explain why .32 ACP was popular in Europe, or .30 Tokarev in China.

          If smaller calibers were bad then folks would have developed larger ones.

          • retfed

            Until WWII, European police carried pistols more as a badge of office than as a weapon. (I think you know that.) After the war, when they started using them for real, they decided to upgrade to 9×17, 9×18, or 9×19. (At least, that’s what I hear.)
            .30 Tokarev is a different breed of cat. It’s practically a rifle cartridge, especially compared to the blowback calibers.

  • tinacn

    Hmmm…My WWII vet Daddy used to ask me: “What’s wrong with a 45?” To which I replied: “Not a darned thing.” I am not a “disciple” of the 45ACP or any paricular handgun round or type. The development of the 45ACP is an interisting history, with the US MIlitary firing various existant and experimental rounds of ammunition into ACTUAL HUMAN CORPSES and doing autposies to investigate the damage to them. The report recommended the adpotion of a cartridge of not less than 45 caliber, a bullet mass of not less than 230 grains, and a muzzle velocity of not less than [I think from memory] 900 feet per second. Treaty agreements (I think it was the Geneva Convention) dictated

  • Bob

    I may be Old School and outdated, I do own many pistols of different cal’s , but at the moment I’m carrying one of my 1911’s as I write this.

  • drizd

    The best example of this I saw in the mid 70’s while in the army. An MP pulled one off somehow in his holster. The ball ammo went through the thin leather then missed his leg. It clipped the side of his boot just before hitting the floor of the bus we used to transport personnel. The bus was a standard 26 passenger short bus schools use with the same hardwood floor. It left a simple dent in the floor 1/4 or less ” deep like someone whacked it with a ball peen hammer.
    The other instance was when we shot it at an old Vietnam style flack vest. 38 special ball right through front and back. The 45 didn’t even penetrate the front side completely. I saw that little test myself and while I didn’t see the boob hopping around on the bus I saw the infamous dent in the hardwood floor. That and the fact that it’s one heavy hog to lug around all day long was enough to prove it’s real effectiveness to me.

  • Steven Parker

    I think the guy that made the Video just likes to talk and try to put people down with his mouth because of the way he is. He is just a smart ass that can’t talk about the rounds so he just wants to put people down.I am sure he voted for Hillary and Obama.

    • MichaelZWilliamson

      I fail to see your conclusion. There are condescending A holes everywhere. Older gunnies are unlikely to be D voters.

  • drizd

    I agree. I have seen a 45 ball that went through a cheesy army leather holster clipped the side of a guys rubber combat boot then stuck in the hardwood floor of a bus. It was just your typical short school bus the military uses for shuttles and such. It left a dent about 1/4″ or less deep like a hard hit with a tiny ball peen hammer. Then there was the time we took an old vietnam era (still issue at the time ) flack vest and shot one. 38 ball went right in and out the back side while the 45 didn’t even go through the front panel
    Years later when the Winchester silvertip came out the cop next door had some for his 45. We took it out with my 38 +p Silvertips and tried them in wet phone books. Amazing, the 45 was almost undisturbed in shape with they typical wound channel. My 38 opened up to around 1/2″ with a massive channel and the slug was a ragged mass that penetrated even deeper than his. That was proof enough for me it wasn’t all that the legend says besides it’s one heavy hog to lug around day in and day out.

    • MichaelZWilliamson

      It’s 5 oz heavier than a Beretta.

      • drizd

        That is a heavy hog too. And whats with needing a rebuild after 3000 rounds of 9MM???? INS and Border Patrol used to carry those in 40. Ughhhh what a hunk of iron. When it came to work give me a plastic spastic any day. Something that won’t leave me walking with a limp

    • Jeffrey Szabo

      Coulda been old ammo. Who knows.

      • drizd

        Nope it was current issue duty carry stuff not something left over from some long ago war. Remember, the year date is stamped on each brass so you know. That 45 ball just isn’t much for penetration partially because it’s so wide I suppose.

        • Jeffrey Szabo

          Very interesting. Stuff like that makes you really think. What do you think was the reason? It sounds weird. And I’d like to mention that it’s nice to converse with people that don’t call everyone a dumb ass cause others don’t know everything. ?

  • supergun

    The Cor Bon 165 gr 45 plus p produces 573 energy ft pounds with a muzzle velocity of 1,250 fps. That is enough defense for me.

  • jeff

    I carry a .38 snub nose but the .45 is my home gun, just because.

  • Jeffrey Szabo

    It might make sense and it might not. Thousands of people died getting shot with it: Krauts, Japs, N. Koreans, Chicomms, VC/NVA, others. It has stopping power; that’s a FACT! Lots of cases of going through layers of Chicomm winter uniforms for the kill. Human anatomy has not changed. More stopping power in other rounds/guns? I guess tests show technology has progressed significantly since the 1911 came out, but there are so many variables when shooting someone. The 9mm and the rest are not magical tools in stopping power. Experiences show multiple hits with no stop; extra rounds needed just like with the 5.56 and 7.62 in rifles. Better carry weapons? Maybe, maybe not. Size? Yeah, it’s bigger, and a .380 or 9mm commander style is easier to carry if you want a small gun & a smaller round, and you can get a .45 Commander. But capacity is really down, in all, unless you want to carry full-size. Capacity in the .45? Never affected it in war; mag changes are quick; and if u were overrun by Chinese hordes, etc., what good would a 9mm with 6-8 more rds. do anyway? ?
    Capacity of the .45? Stats show not many shots fired in a street fight /home invasion. Not enough to change mags, but should always carry a spare or 2. Want more? I bought a FN FNX TACTICAL .45. You gotta , that puppy: 16 rd. capacity (including one up), lower recoil, in design, decocker, ambidextrous, great single action trigger, suppressor ready, 3 mags, can take red dot, 5.3 inch barrel, etc., etc. Yowza! Full size? Yeah.
    I’m kinda partial; carried a .45 in the Army.
    One more point about smaller calibers: I also bought a FN 5.7. Holds 21 rounds; bullet is a 224 (yes!) like a 5.56 rd., cut short, 5.56 x 28; 40 grain; about 1800 fps. Round tumbles on contact, and may shatter. Great single action trigger. Internal hammer. Hmmm! Weapon weighs absolutely nothing. Feels like it came from Toys r Us! Check it out. Great pistol.

    • iksnilol

      They also make 30 round mags for the FN 5.7, and they hardly add any length. No need to thank me ๐Ÿ˜‰

      • Jeffrey Szabo

        Cool! I do need to thank you. I learn something new everyday! I’ll check it out. The more I shoot that 5.7, the more I like it.

  • hANNABONE

    ….talkin’ with his hands again…
    He lost me with the BowTech lid.
    I have .380 & 9mm & 45ACP – placement is everything.!

  • bob

    After watching this video, I concluded his message was directed toward first time buyers or new shooters. I hear people hype “high capacity” and this scares me. I was an LEO for about 30 years,back in the day when all you had was 6 revolver shots. The savvy LEOs practiced and practiced some more to ensure that if the balloon went up,they would not waste those precious 6 bullets. Now a days I hear young cops say’ I have 15 (or so) shots. I don;t have to aim, one is bound to hit him” Well where are all the misses going? It is worse for civilians. If as a civilian, you can not end the fight in 3 or 4 bullets, you are in serious trouble! Capacity is not even close to shot placement. Many expert shooters are Very accurate with the 45, others may not be. In short caliber and magazine capacity both take a back seat to,practice,training, confidence in your ability and proficiently.

    • Jeffrey Szabo

      Good points. We know where those missed rds. go, unfortunately.

      • “unsubscribeโ€

        • Jeffrey Szabo

          Your point…

    • frankspeak

      russia and israel understood the value of suppressive fire…can’t shoot you when he’s ducking for cover….

  • Whiskey7Actual

    These caliber arguments are inherently stupid!

  • Paladin

    This guy is an idiot. He doesn’t believe in female orgasms either which means he’s not man enough to 1. get a female to orgasm 2. or doesn’t know what an orgasm is. 3. or never had sex with a female. Along the same lines, he says the size of the hole doesn’t make any difference. I have to assume he’s still talking about women, not the .45 caliber.

    • iksnilol

      What.

      EDIT: Still, whaaat?

  • bob

    You just summed it up very nicely with “I watch a lot of T.V. shows…”
    T.V. and reality are like 2 parallel lines !Too many people make decisions based on what they saw either on a video or T.V. Bottom line is There is No Magic Bullet or caliber. Practice, confidence and the ability to put shots on target are what count.

  • cawpin

    Don’t give this bigot any attention.

  • MichaelZWilliamson

    If the recoil if a .45 is too much for you, see a doctor about some testosterone shots.

    Kidding aside, I find the slow, heavy recoil to be more comfortable than the sharper, shorter recoil of 9mm.

    • AlDeLarge

      Trigger reset on the striker/DAO guns slows me down more than the difference in recoil.

  • Jackson

    With the new double stacks .45 count is up. With new ammo .45 speed fps is up. So I do not know what they are talking about.

  • Kill Hill: Volume 1
  • The model 19 or 686 is a perfectly viable defensive revolver in .357. The recoil honestly isn’t bad. Muzzle flash at night can be pretty bright depending on which ammo you use.

    • Ned Weatherby

      Pretty bright? As in a ball of flame the size of a basketball? Then there’s the obnoxious muzzle blast issue. Just never fire one indoors without hearing protection. Bad bongos.
      Huh? Were you talking to me – or just moving your lips?

      • Core

        lol true.

    • Core

      I always preferred loading with .38 could never get good with a .357 shorty. But yes its a powerful cartridge and I’m sure when you train hard with it, you can become very effective. Unlike some folks I don’t insinuate or claim a particular cartridge is better than the next. A .22 to the brain stem can kill the most hardened men, and when I choose to carry a 1911 in .45 Auto, that’s my business. I have 9mm also, but I choose to carry .45, it’s not magic but it’s mine, and I train hard with it. I’m pushing 5000 rounds with my carry 1911 and it hasn’t choked. I keep it well maintained. I’ve seen more stoppages with my M9 and Sigs in my Navy days. This arguing over this is better than that is getting redundant and doesn’t impress me.

      • frankspeak

        the .45…more likely to stop..less likely to kill…[ in ball ammo, of course]

  • Paladin

    In the real world, would you rather be shot by a “pin” that goes all the way through you at high speed, or a the end of a slow moving baseball bat that only goes half way through you? Hunters know you use a heavier bullet to deliver more FPE. At short distances, speed is irrelevant.

    • frankspeak

      remember shooting at an upright RR tie with a .30/30…knocking off several pieces…them switching to a 12ga rifled slug..and watching that baby get body slammed to the ground!…

  • Paladin

    This guy is an idiot and wouldn’t know a female orgasm if it sat on face. He thinks the size of the hole only matters in a “ho.”

  • bobk90

    I own the SA XD 45 4″ with a 13 Round Mag which is has 1 less round than the 40 cal version, so what about capacity? This guy obviously hasn’t heard about out Vets from Iraq or Afghanistan, who complained about shooting 9mm into the Bad Guys at point blank range and it didn’t STOP them! (note: SpecOPs has already switched to .45acp) Yet guys brought their own 45 acp’s and it was DROPPING them with 1 round, fact! Also, as to Conceal Carry, Springfield makes a .45acp in 3.3″ and I rather shoot 6 rounds of 45acp over 6 round of .380 or 9mm, any day! This guy might just be a little Girl and doesn’t like the Recoil of the 45acp IDK but to say the 45acp has no advantage shows just how much a Keyboard Commando this idiot is!!! Everyone has a opinion and “real’ facts don’t lie, he talks about the all these other rounds being so much better than the 45 acp, he sounds like the Al Gore of Pistols, No Clue on the Facts and believing in unproven science!

  • marine6680

    I would not qualify made for TV drama documentaries as evidence of the effectiveness of a given caliber.

    Actual forensic studies and countless tests and experiments have shown that pretty much every pistol caliber performs similarly in terminal performance when you are talking human sized targets.

    Some calibers like 44mag have advantages, that come down to bullet selection and tech… But 44 is not really a defense load.

    Seeing as the FBI standards are the baseline for defense and duty use… all ammo designed for those roles, in the major calibers… 9, 40, 45, 38, 357… perform roughly similarly in tests and in real world use.

    • frankspeak

      wonder how many of you..[in LE]..saw that training video I did…big,burly southern cop..large caliber revolver..etc., etc. gently confronting little…seemingly mild and meek black guy..cop looks away for just a second…and lets his guard down , ..little dude pulls out a .22 NA mini and shoots the cop in the armpit just above his vest..cop dies..perp got away…you just never know…….

      • marine6680

        Don’t think I have… Takes a special kind of evil to attack someone offering you a kind hand.

  • MR_Mr_Deplorable_Hapla

    and yet, John Hinckley nearly took down the Reagan Administration with a .22

    • frankspeak

      allegedly with a devastator round….still got some of those around here somewhere

  • Mac

    The old .45 is one of the few pistol cartridges that is still effective with ball ammo.
    In a G-21, the recoil is mild enough for most shooters.

  • Poohgyrr

    Hah! OK, 1st – the newest ammo isn’t always available – cost, not available, some law or policy, or whatever the reason. 2nd – when that hollowpoint doesn’t expand then it has become ball and that’s why we left 9mm/38 and went to 45 ball in the first place. 3rd – except for reasons such as medical, legal/policy, financial, or something similar: recoil control is a training issue. Folks do well with SSK handcannons & big bore magnum revolvers & etc… so it can be done.

    And there is nothing wrong with “I want it”. Same with other stuff: shoes, cars, food, the opposite sex, movies, etc….

  • Big George

    HUH??!! I’ll be happy to put my 1911-A1 up against your millennial girlie-man Glocky 9mm! WHY do you think the .45 was invented in the first place?! It was designed to knock down (and yes, kill!) a bunch of crazed natives stoned out of their minds with their ‘crown jewels’ tied so tight it would even bring tears to obummer!!

    • iksnilol

      That was .45 long colt.

      • Big George

        A 45 LC????!!!…NO it was NOT you moron! What the hell do you think ACP means??!!…AUTOMATIC COLT PISTOL…i.e. a 1911 in .45ACP!!! It was designed specifically to fight in The Moro Rebellion (1899โ€“1913) in the Philippines, when General Pershing (ever heard of him?!) could not stop the doped-up MOROS with the issued .38’s where the .45 ACP was designed to KNOCK DOWN the ball-tied MOROS!! Go study some history before you jump ignorantly into a gun blog ‘iksnotilololol’!!!

        • And the initial response was to issue SSAs in 45lc

          • Big George

            Oh and ‘iksnilololololo’…cute animation you obummer millennial!!!

          • iksnilol

            I don’t even think 1911s were available in the Moro conflict, since by 1910 or so they were disarmed. And earliest conflict i find records of the 1911 is in WW1.

          • retfed

            Pershing and the boys carried 1911s into Mexico in 1916. I have a friend who owns a 1913-mfg 1911 that probably went there.
            You’re right, the 1911 probably didn’t kill anyone in the Philippines till 1942.

          • frankspeak

            yeah,..remember that scene in “They Came to Cordura”…where an entire cavalry regiment armed only with 1911’s charged a hacienda occupied by some of Villa’s boys…seemed kind of dumb to me since the bad guys had rifles..but, hey…it’s only a movie!

          • retfed

            And Winchester 1897 12 gauges.

        • iksnilol
          • mbrd

            off his meds?

            anyway, i believe the .45acp round was introduced with the colt 1905 pistol, during the development process that started with the 1900 and went through the 1902, 1903, and culminated in the 1911. to my understanding the .45acp round was indeed developed in response to the need to drop moro warriors, though it may not have made it into the field in time to do so (don’t know).

            anybody want to argue with me? ’cause i’ve got a caps lock key, an exclamation point key, and a whole bunch of names i can call people!

          • iksnilol

            Something like that, was developed in response to that, but was never used against ’em.

          • frankspeak

            looks like mr. late nite…he of dubious sexuality..and ultra-left political views……..

        • frankspeak

          yeah,..do believe the .45 long colt goes all the way back to 1873…

    • frankspeak

      calls to mind that Gary Cooper movie…where one of these characters charged down a pier at two army officers who were trapped there..they managed to empty their revolvers…but he still killed one of them with a bolo knife..do believe the 1911 made its debut shortly thereafter!…

  • WRBuchanan

    OK just over 100 years ago the US Army figured out that .45 cal cartridges were superior man stoppers to the .38 or 9MM cartridges available at the time. This included the 9MM Luger Cartridge which was available and which the 1911 pistol could just as easily been chambered for.They went with the .45 ACP which served for 75+ years. Then some Politico decided that we needed to CowTow to NATO and adopt the 9MM cartridge.

    Please note; that most Elite Military Units still carried 1911’s

    Technology has improved ammunition, but I submit that it has improved the .45 ACP cartridge just as much as it has the 9MM cartridge. There are just as many High Performance Bullets and SD Ammo choices for .45 cal as there is for 9MM.

    As far as capacity is concerned a 9mm pistol can certainly field more rounds, however since you have to shoot the guy 2-3 times instead of only once this advantage goes away quickly. Also my Glock 21 SF is a 12+1 pistol that is softer shooting than either my G35 or G19 so the recoil thing is BS as well..

    Para Ordinance, STI, Kimber and others have been making Double stack 1911’s for a long time that are 14+1 which narrows the gap even more.

    Now to the last gripe: More people can shoot a 9mm better than a .45. OK that may be true to some extent, however anyone who can shoot a 9MM well enough to be in the field with it should have also been able, with enough training, to learn how to shoot a .45. They needed the training anyway in order to be truly competent Pistol Shooters and be in the field in the first place!

    No,,, this is, and always has been,,, all about money. 9mm ammo is simply cheaper than .45 ACP ammo, and the Marines just gave Glock a $82 M contract for G19’s to replace the worn out M9’s which also would have cost more to replace. More bangs for your Tax Payer Buck is what is going on here. I personally don’t have a big problem with this as I would have gone with Glocks as well as I consider them to be the best Combat Handgun out there. Unfortunately we are flush with 9MM ammo so that pretty much meant a G17 or G19 and the 19 was given the nod because of better conceilability.

    As far as the efficiency of the rounds the Marines won’t be shooting High Dollar SD rounds they will be shooting regular 9mm Ball Ammo, and if you think getting hit by a Prius will hurt more than getting hit by a Suburban you are short a few cards in your deck.

    So we have come full circle back to the smaller round and it only took 100 years. I wonder if they will eventually figure out they made a mistake and go back to the .45?

    Wouldn’t that be special.

  • Glenn_Blech

    These arguments are always ALWAYS entertaining, and but IF you have a good firearm and IF you have trained and IF you have some common sense, you’re far and away ahead of 99% of the folks you’re likely to encounter that need to be shot.
    (I have a 1922 Colt 1911 (non-A1) that I absolutely love, but I carry a USP Compact 45, and my wife’s nightstand gun is a Smith Model 19.)
    Use or carry what you’ve trained with, because like they say, a could of hits with a .32 is waaaay better than a miss with a .44 Mag. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • El Mac

    The .45acp ain’t for the weakminded.

  • iksnilol

    Well, good luck if you need more than 6 rounds, buddy.

    • Core

      My opinion is that six rounds should be enough to get you to a reload.

    • frankspeak

      actually picked up a 15 rd extended for that gun..amazing what you can find at gun shows!..

      • iksnilol

        Isn’t that a pretty long mag then? Feels a bit pointless to have a super small gun then.

  • Libertarian in 2016

    Bear in mind that all those “modern designs, metallurgy, [and] hollow-points” apply equally to the .45 ACP. That would seem to indicate that it’s still the preeminent defensive auto pistol cartridge. If you can’t handle the recoil in a compact pistol, fine. Go with a .40 or a 9mm, or, better yet, a .38 Special loaded with the 158 gr lead HP +P. Oh, wait, reduced capacity, right? How about aiming?

    • The standard pressure 9mm is similar in ballistics to the 38 +p and yet the 9mm is a wonder cartridge. Gotta wonder why the Jovino Effector was created. Not for long though.

    • maodeedee

      The 357 Sig is ballistically far superior to the 9mm and comparing a 9mm Glock 19 to a 357 Sig Glock 32, (same sized gun) only holds 2 round less, 14 as opposed to 16 and is more compact with greater ammo capacity and has less recoil than a 357 magnum revolver but with ballistics that are nearly identical with 125 grain bullets.
      For concealed carry I would say that a high capacity 357 sig is “Better” than a compact lower capacity 45 ACP but a compact single stack 9 or 40 might be “better” yet in terms of concealment and lighter weight. I only wish that Smith & Wesson made the Sheild in 357 Sig. But for home defense, if a 1911 with an 8 round Wilson mag and one in the chamber isn’t enough, a 14 round Glock 21 might be even better.

      • Publius

        If I have to defend the house, I’m grabbing the M4 with a 1911 as backup.

  • US Army (retired)

    I am a US Army veteran (retired) with 24 years (1968-1992) of service. I carried and used a 45 ACP pistol then and I still do. I can still put 7 shots into an 8″ circle at 7-10 yards. I have seen the effects of a slow fat bullet smacking flesh and it is very effective at transferring the energy to the target and not to the objects behind my target. I competed on the marksmanship team and I do hit what I am aiming at! So you can take all the BS like improved bullets, better guns, better cartridges, less recoil and put them where the sun don’t shine.

    • Ron

      Here is what was written in the US Army’s study “WOUND BALLISTICS” published in 1962 that covers wounds from WWII, Korea and parts of Vietnam
      Chap 2
      Ballistic
      Characteristics of Wounding Agents
      Maj. Ralph W. French, MAC, USA
      (Ret.), and Brig. Gen. George R. Callender, USA (Ret.)
      “From an analysis of these facts and the requirements for penetration of skin and bone, it can be readily appreciated that the .45 caliber bullet is of little value as a wound-producing agent except in the softer tissues and at near ranges. The bullet often fails either to penetrate or to fracture bone and practically never shatters bone in the manner common to the rifle bullet or fragment. The Japanese and German sidearms with muzzle velocities of approximately 1,100 f.p.s. were much more effective as antipersonnel weapons than the .45 caliber weapon.”

      • US Army (retired)

        I have real world (RVN 69-71) experience and that counts more for me. You can think and carry whatever you want and I’ll do the same.

        • Ron

          And similarly, I have seen enough people killed and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan; see my comment about a gunner taking a dud 80mm RPG round to the chest and not instantly stopping; if a 3″ plus hole in someone’s torso doesn’t do it a .45-1″ hole produced by a pistol won’t stop someone with the will to fight

  • maodeedee

    This article is intellectually dishonest. Two kinds of “bait” are involved here. Click Bait, and Bait and Switch.

    Here’s what I mean by Bait and Switch: First make the claim that the 45 is no good for self-defense implying that it’s somehow ballistically inferior to smaller calibers, , and then switch the argument to suitability for Concealed Carry citing reasons of reduced capacity and higher recoil.

    If the author was trying to give an honest assessment and not just trying to provoke a response, he would qualify his statement by saying that the reason the 45 ACP “sucks” is because smaller calibers are better for concealed carry but not for self-defense in general.

    For home defense, I would argue that a Glock model 21 with a 14 round capacity loaded with the most effective modern ammo available would be superior to just about any other self defense weapon. For one thing, the 45 ACP operates at a significantly lower pressure level than the 9mm or 40S&W which both develop 35,000 PSI while standard 45 ACP develops 21,000 PSI and Plus P+ maxes out at only 23,000 PSI.

    What this means is less muzzle blast in confined spaces in situations where you are unlikely to be wearing ear protection. A complete though temporary loss of hearing can be disorienting and can even cause vertigo.

    • US Army (retired)

      Thank you for making the same observation I have of this BS article!

    • frankspeak

      back when I was working for the feds…our neighbors with the deep pockets..[federal reserve]…and an unlimited budget…chose glock 21’s…of course they also had benelli shotguns, MP5’s and the best body armor…those banker boys like to go first class!

  • Mikial

    Another round (pun intended) in the never ending circular conversation of the optimal defensive caliber. The same tired old rants about ‘stopping power’, capacity, weight, modern developments in bullet design, outdated designs, yadda, yadda. Either a 9mm or a .45ACP will serve well as a defensive round, and developments in modern ammo can apply to the .45 as well as the 9. Witness the Cor Bon +P 165 gr HP .45ACP round that delivers 1250 fps and 573 ft/pds of energy. Pretty hot stuff and still a bigger projectile than the usual 115gr 9mm HP.

    The greater part of this infinite debate seems to be more about the handgun itself than the ammo with everyone assuming the .45 must be a 1911 with its heavy weight and limited capacity offset by it’s historic performance and continued popularity. News flash; the 1911 is not the only handgun sold in .45ACP. As with the ammo developments, so have handguns evolved. We own two 1911s but neither my wife nor I carry one EDC. She loves her Beretta 92 (an utterly reliable and accurate 9mm), and I carry a Glock 21 with a capacity of 13+1. Not all that much less than a 9mm. Both are great guns and both would serve us well in a gun fight when loaded with modern HP rounds.

    All this arguing is nothing more than a lot of hot air. And his example of the benefit of the .380 being that you can have a tiny gun that still holds 6 or 7 rounds is just plain silly. In that case why not carry a .32 or even a .22?

    Finally, if the clown in the video thinks the female orgasm is a myth, maybe he’s just a lousy lover. Something no caliber of gun is going to help him with.

  • David169

    I carry different calibers depending upon where I am going. I either carry a 3 inch 45 ACP Para C6.45 LDA or a S&W 396 NG 44 Special. Both have about the same muzzle energy. I use Speer’s 230 grain short barrel ammo on the 45 which gives me 825 fps. In the 44 special I use Buffalo Bore 200 grain bonded defense which utilizes the Speer 200 grain bullet at 1025 fps.I obtained these velocities with my chronograph using my carry guns. I base my choice on the military’s “Pig Board” which tried every caliber from 30 to 50 with FMJs and a ME of 300 to 450 FP. The government made a deal with the Chicago slaughterhouses to pay for the meat they damaged and shot thousands of live pigs that weighed 160 to 180 pounds with various calibers that could be used in a semi-automatic pistol. They shot the pigs in various places at various angles and measured how far and how long it took them to collapse. This was done because of the Philippine War where the 38s the soldiers were issued had insufficient knock down power. The “Board” found the larger calibers worked better and they settled on 45 caliber because 50 caliber made the pistol too large. John Browning wanted the 45 ACP loaded with a 200 grain bullet at 1,000 fps but the 230 grain bullet at 830 FPS performed better and was adopted.
    Years ago many police departments issued and insisted their officers use the 38 Special Super Police loading which was a 195 grain blunt nose bullet at about 600 fps. This cartridge was famous for ending gun fights with a single hit. Big and slow is a proven concept.
    Lastly from what I have read the average self defense shooting is at 3 to 7 feet. Knockdown and incapacitation with the first shot is mandatory. Very rarely does an exchange of multiple shots take place in a civilian self defense situation.

    • retfed

      Is this a different “Pig Board” than the Thompson-LaGarde tests that decided on .45 caliber. Because those tests were conducted in 1906. A lot has changed since then.

      • David169

        No, it is the same pig board. Yes, a lot has changed since then such as hollow points and pre-fragmented ammunition which is prohibited by the Geneva Convention but legal for self defense. If the same changes are applied to a .45 as a .40 or 9mm nothing changes as far as relative effectiveness. If the testing was repeated today I am of the opinion that the results would not change. The basic structure of the pigs has not changed nor has the basic structure of men.

        • retfed

          I wish everyone would quit talking about the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention has to do with the treatment of prisoners of war and civilian populations.
          The ammunition restrictions were put in place by the Hague Accords of 1899.
          Yes, I agree (and I’ve said so several times in this thread) that when you’re comparing FMJ to FMJ, the .45 is probably superior (unless you want pure penetration; then the 9mm wins. That’s why the Illinois State Police went to the 9mm in 1967: to penetrate car bodies).
          When I was carrying a gun for a living 30 years ago, the 9mm Silvertip was famous for failing the FBI in Miami, but the 200-grain Speer “flying ashtray” was reputed to be the mother of all stoppers.
          The improvements just in the last 20 years have made the difference between the calibers practically nonexistent. So on the basis of recoil, capacity, and weapon carryability (mainly frame size and weight), the .45 comes in third.
          But it’s still a good round. If you want to carry it, go ahead, it’s America. But be aware of what you’re giving up.

          • David169

            The town in which I live is well policed but within miles it goes downhill fast. Most of the time when in town I carry the 44 Special loaded with the 200 grain Speer at 1025 FPS. If I have to go into other areas I carry the .45 with extra magazines. The 44 Special with the scandium/aluminum frame is a lot lighter and for the 5 shots it holds probably more reliable but slower to reload.
            I shot some of my remaining “flying ashtrays” into wet phone books at 5′ and also shot the newer 44 caliber 200 grain Speer huge hollow point bullet loaded heavily by Buffalo Bore for comparison. They are both 200 grains and at almost the same velocity out of my short barreled firearms. They both end up at about the same size with the 44 special the larger but not by any significant amount (.02). Of the 5 .45s I shot 2 shed their jackets. Obviously none of the plated (bonded) jackets came off the 5 .44s I shot. I suspect the lead is in the 44 bullets is pure (BHN 4) and the plated “jacket” is the ideal thickness to allow the rotation of the bullet and maximum expansion at the 44s velocity.

  • tomah57

    Why is everyone fixated on the 1911? This is about the 45acp cartridge.With todays ammo based on FBI protocols all handgun ammo is about the same ,making caliber a moot point except for weight.You must still hit something vital in order for any of them to work well, if you do not then they all suck.Stop with the B S stories already eh!

  • Lonnie

    I prefer 1911s because they fit my hand better than any other pistol made. I have held them all, except a Canik. The one advantage .45 ACP has over almost ALL other calibers, which the Yankee Marshall overlooked, is that you can shoot a suppressed pistol WITHOUT having to specially load “subsonic” rounds. Factory ammo, especially ball, is loaded at 820 to 860 FPS which is already subsonic. So, his argument that .45 has no advantage over any other caliber is FALSE!

    • retfed

      This “it’s easier to suppress” business comes up a lot. How many regular gun owners and shooters care about it? As it stands right now, suppressors are expensive paperwork-intensive toys that potentially turn your $700 tool into a $1200-1500 Fed magnet. If the Hearing Protection Act passes (don’t hold your breath), things might change, but for now saying Round X is better for its suppressability is like saying Car Y is better because it’s easier to turn into a drag racer. It might be true, but it’s mainly irrelevant.

  • Voice_of_Reason

    The .45, like the 1911, is very, very old.

    But they are both 90-95% as good as the best modern alternatives.

    Try finding another 100+ year old product that is still competitive today.

    • Guesticus

      9mm is older ๐Ÿ˜›

      • Voice_of_Reason

        but nobody uses thr pistol it was developed for anymore (Luger). The .45 Automatic Colt Pistol cartridge is still used in millions of 1911s.

  • Rap Scallion

    I would assume that you are part of the clamoring unwashed that need MORE bullets…….Like a 9mm! Fact is that with big and fat and slow there is no doubt that a one round hit anywhere with the old slab sides, will put the perp down! So while you do have some weak points….it remains the choice of those who are in a confrontation real or contrived!

    Marines used to be divided by brown and black shoes back in my day, so I guess now they are parting, when they opine for a 45 ACP or a 9mm!

  • Paul Kersey

    I apologize for going off subject, but after The Yankee Marshall repeated the lies the media told about the self defense shooting of Travon Martin by George Zimmerman on his YouTube channel, I could no longer stand watching his videos or listening to his voice. He lost all credibility with me.
    He stated that Travon Martin was a “little kid” and said that George Zimmerman shouldn’t have shot him because Zimmerman should have been able to fight.
    Apparently it was Zimmerman’s fault for not being a better boxer and deserved whatever he got no matter the outcome. That is the same logic that the Travon supporters in the media and Black Lives Matter that grew out of this case used to demonize Zimmerman, equating getting his head smashed into the concrete by Martin, who then tried to take Zimmerman’s gun away from him, as “just an ass whooping”, as Rachel Jenteel said on the witness stand.
    The sham trial of George Zimmerman was an assault on all law abiding gun owners and The Yankee Marshall, an admitted Democrat, took the side of the leftist Democrats. At a time when it was crucial for as many pro-second amendment people with a forum to stand up and speak out against the lies being told by the media and set the record straight, TYM repeated the lies that shaped many people’s perception of the case.
    The entire trial is on YouTube and after watching every minute of it myself, I can state emphatically that Trayvon Martin was not just a “little kid that didn’t need to be shot” to prevent him from killing George Zimmerman with his own gun, as TYM stated.
    Aside from these facts, how can a person who is pro-Second Amendment be a Democrat as TYM has claimed to be, when on the Democrat party’s own website, they state that they want much stricter gun control?
    I can only guess who TYM voted for in the presidential election, but my money says it was Hillary Clinton.

    • frankspeak

      remember…he could have been obama’s son!….

  • L. Roger Rich

    Yankee Marshall is far from an expert. He is a douche bag. Who the hell takes his word for anything.

  • John

    Just turn this fool off

  • tenmillimeter

    Carry what you are most accurate with, if that’s .45 then nothing else will work better for you in a fight. Hitting your target is what matters. I love 9mm, .45, and 10mm (duh on the last one! Lol), but I’m most accurate with 9mm and 10mm, so those are my EDC.

  • Eric Blatter

    Fooey. If a .45ACP is inadequate, so is a 9mm, .38 Super, or anything else. I only ask “Do you want to kill the aggressor or blow him into vaporised bits?” And that technology still doesn’t exist for handguns.

  • Zebra Dun

    The .45 acp in any handgun form is a poor self defense weapon for anyone who is not and will not become trained in it’s use.
    It is hard to shoot and shoots hard.
    For the average person with average abilities the 9 mm Luger the .38 spl even the .380 acp is a better choice.
    No, don’t get all riled up at me, I have and use a 1911A1 Series 70 Gov model in .45 acp and love it though I am a devoted .357 magnum revolver fan.
    The difference is, I’ve had training starting at 17 years old with the .45 and shoot it regularly as I do with the .357 magnum.
    Most folks get a .45 and expect to be able to shoot and hit reliably after maybe one magazine shot just to see how it shoots.
    It is perfect but only in trained hands.

  • Jason Lewis

    .45 AARP lmao

  • frankspeak

    its track record,..as well as its reason for coming into existence…still speak well for this iconic cartridge…sometimes you only have time for a single shot!..

  • Skyviking

    All else being equal (bullet design/technology, loaded to standard, +P, or +P+ pressure levels, etc.), anything a 9mm will do, a .45 will do better – except overpenetrate.

  • MisterTheory

    I could have watched more of the video if he had just objectively presented his case instead of mocking the people that questioned his statement.

  • ciscokid3750

    WHEN IS THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO START SELLING OFF THE SURPLUS 1911’S? ITS BEEN A YEAR SINCE THEY PASSED THE NEW LAW AND STILL NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE?

  • Jason Donovan

    Honestly, While I generally agree with his synopsis, the only reason I choose to carry the .45 is specifically because of its slower speeds and lack of penetration. I worry that my rounds might bore right through wall after wall even as JHP rounds but with the .45, they won’t bore through nearly as many walls thus meaning that if a round does miss…which even the best of us can miss when adrenaline is pumping…well, when a round does miss, it’s not going to travel through a bunch of walls looking for an alternate victim. I work in a very thin walled environment so the least amount of walls that get penetrated, the better for me to avoid countless civil suits for wrongful death when all I was doing was defending myself. I guess that really wouldn’t be what most would worry about but for me that is a determining factor.

  • CaptainGroovy

    Once again some “Arm Chair Quaterback” want to tell us why a cartridge and handgun that has been used by US Military for over 100 years is not good for self defense. Might I just remind these experts that in 1892 the US Military replace the 1873 SSA aka “the PeaceMaker” chambered in 45 Long Colt (Black Powder) for the new Colt Double Action chambered in the new 38 Long Colt cartridge. The theory being is that the increased velocity would more than make up for its small bullet size and weight in penetration and stopping power. Then in 1898 a little thing called the Spanish American war came along and we sent troops to Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines armed with the new Colt Double Action chambered in 38 Long Colt as their sidearm. The 38 caliber Double Action Colt proved to be barely acceptable in Cuba and Puerto Rico but the Philippines was a different story especial after the war when US Troops were fighting Moro insurrectionists who would get high on mind altering narcotics that besides helping them crazed fevered pitch before battle would also numb them to the point that they did not feel pain. The Moros’ insurrectionists more often could be shot more than six times with by troops armed with 38 caliber Colts and still continue to charge US Troops and hack at them with their Machetes. Because of the shortcomings of the 38 caliber cartridge in the Philippines the Army had 1873 Black Powder SAA’s reconditioned for troops serving in the Philippines. It should also be noted that after the Spanish American war the Secretary of War established an officers board to find a replacement for the 38 caliber cartridge. This board was convened and had finished there study before the 45ACP cartridge was even thought of but they did test the 45 Long Colt against the 30 Luger and the 9×19 just to name a couple and the clear winner was the 45 Long Colt when it came to stopping power. In 1933 Col. J Hatcher did a study on handgun cartridges and concluded just like the officers board that a big heavy bullet had much greater penetration and stopping power than a lighter, smaller a bullet traveling at a higher velocity. Lastly starting in 1990 the FBI started testing the cartridges for penatrations and stopping power and found the 45ACP to be the only cartridge that scored a 100 in their complex penetration power testing with the 9×19 nato round scoring a 95 however the stopping power test the 45ACP had no equal as when compared with other standard pistol rounds. The one that must be understood about the stopping power of handgun rounds is that in general they are relying on the size hole of the permanent wound track because they do not have the ability to cause the tearing of flesh and muscle like there much faster rifle cartridge counter parts. In the world handgun cartridge stopping power big and heavy always beats out faster and smaller.

  • frankspeak

    once fired a .45 [out of a star PD]..through a closet wall…it stopped in the third sportcoat…and the slug was pristine!…just sayin’…

  • frankspeak

    hey guys!…if it’s that big a deal just carry both!…..

  • frankspeak

    gotta admit there’s a certain deterrent effect looking down that nickle sized bore…does anyone remember that rt 66 episode that showcased the 1911?

    • Bad Penguin

      You are showing your age. I remember watching some of it at the end of its run and later on reruns.

  • ciscokid3750

    When is the U.S. Government going to release the surplus .45 1911 pistols?

  • Oldtrader3

    I am still very fond of the 1911 and its permutations but only with an ambidextrous safety. I am not fat but am old and slow, kind of like the 1911?

  • cisco kid

    I do shoot my 1911 better than other pistols.

  • J.E.Walker

    This is what you get when a second rate YouTuber thinks he needs a little more controversy in order to bump up his views.